EPISDODE 21: I Want to Be Un-Unique

Summary

Strangers on a Bench: Episode 21 – "I Want to Be Un-Unique"

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Guest: Anonymous Stranger
Release Date: February 3, 2025

In Episode 21 of "Strangers on a Bench," titled "I Want to Be Un-Unique," host Tom Rosenthal engages in a profound and introspective conversation with an anonymous stranger. Over the course of their encounter, they delve into themes of identity, belonging, personal history, and the quest for ordinariness amidst life's complexities.

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1. Favorite Days and Ideal Days (00:04 - 02:02)

The conversation begins with Tom approaching on a typical London park bench. He asks the guest about their favorite days of the week, to which the guest responds:

"I think I like the days that I work because I don't work in a location every day of the week, so I kind of like those days. And Fridays are good as well. Friday, it's a safe Friday." [00:52]

When prompted to imagine an ideal day off, the guest envisions:

"I would get out early if I could and maybe I would go to the Thames Estuary and take a long walk... have some seafood at Leon Sea... and love the cinema. So I would maybe then try to nip back and go to the BFI to round it all off with something in the cinema." [01:19]

This paints a picture of a day filled with nature, good food, and cultural experiences.

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2. Connection to the Thames and Family History (02:02 - 05:35)

Tom inquires about the guest's feelings towards the Thames, leading to a heartfelt reflection:

"I feel like it's in my DNA." [02:06]

The guest elaborates on their deep-rooted connection to the Thames Estuary, intertwining it with familial ties:

"My family had a caravan there... it's a very particular landscape. It's natural and totally artificial... It makes me feel very connected to the landscape. It makes me feel like I belong somewhere." [02:14]

They delve into their mother's elusive family history, uncovering a narrative of possible Roma heritage and the challenges in tracing their lineage. Despite feeling overwhelmed by the extensive research, the guest appreciates the bond formed with their father-in-law through this exploration.

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3. Reflections on Past Relationships and Personal Growth (05:35 - 08:59)

The conversation takes a personal turn as the guest discusses a past relationship's dissolution. Expressing sadness and introspection, they offer valuable advice on handling criticism and managing expectations in relationships:

"If somebody tells you the way they feel... it doesn't necessarily mean that's a criticism... Ideally you would try to come to some agreement with that person about how your behavior won't affect them so much." [07:16]

Additionally, the guest cautions against overestimating one's capacity for change in the early stages of love, highlighting their own experience of being overly optimistic and the subsequent need to extricate from the relationship.

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4. Pursuit of Ordinariness and Reflection on Uniqueness (09:10 - 12:13)

When asked about routines and unique behaviors, the guest intriguingly declares:

"No, absolutely not. I'm utterly unique. I strive to be ordinary. That would be my ambition in life." [10:10]

They contrast their past desires of standing out and seeking fame with a newfound aspiration to blend in and lead an unexceptional life. This shift is further illustrated when discussing the hypothetical scenario of performing at Wembley Stadium, emphasizing the challenges their band, composed of members with learning disabilities and autism, would face in such a spotlight.

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5. Autism Diagnosis and Coping Mechanisms (14:10 - 18:28)

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to the guest's late diagnosis of autism, which they received the previous year. They reflect on the impact of this diagnosis on their self-perception and life:

"I did feel very sorry for that young boy who suffered so much. But I was glad in a way that I got the diagnosis when I did." [15:15]

The guest shares insightful perspectives on living with autism, describing heightened sensory experiences and the development of coping mechanisms that may appear obsessive but are essential for their well-being. An example includes meticulously booking cinema tickets to watch films in order and chronological order, showcasing a structured approach to leisure activities.

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6. Personal Insights and Life Lessons (19:27 - 22:20)

Engaging in deeper self-reflection, the guest contemplates the profound question:

"What do you really want?" [19:27]

Though they acknowledge not having a definitive answer, they express desires for connection, purpose, and belonging within the community. Additionally, they recount a vivid childhood memory of witnessing a near lightning strike, which instilled in them an awareness of life's unpredictability and the realization that while powerful events can occur unexpectedly, their personal impact is often limited.

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7. Final Reflections and Future Plans (22:20 - End)

As the conversation approaches its conclusion, the guest humorously addresses the interruption caused by their fictional "Hollywood" call, maintaining their desire to keep their life ordinary. They conclude with a pragmatic approach to life's challenges:

"I'm going to keep on keeping on because that's all we can do, really, any of us can do." [22:46]

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Notable Quotes

• "I feel like it's in my DNA." [02:06]
  Referring to the deep connection with the Thames Estuary.

• "I'm utterly unique. I strive to be ordinary. That would be my ambition in life." [10:10]
  Expressing the desire to blend in rather than stand out.

• "What do you really want?" [19:27]
  A profound question prompting introspection on personal desires.

• "I'm going to keep on keeping on because that's all we can do, really, any of us can do." [22:46]
  Emphasizing resilience in the face of life's challenges.

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Conclusion

Episode 21 of "Strangers on a Bench" offers listeners an intimate glimpse into the life of an individual striving for normalcy while navigating the complexities of personal history and neurodiversity. Through honest dialogue and heartfelt reflections, Tom Rosenthal and his guest explore universal themes of belonging, self-acceptance, and the pursuit of a meaningful life.

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Hosted on Acast. See acast.com/privacy for more information.

Transcript

[A]

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. So, first question, is there a day of the week you favor?

[B]

Oh, I think I like the days that I work because I don't work in a location every day of the week, so I kind of like those days. And Fridays are good as well. Friday, it's a safe Friday.

[A]

Let's imagine you're not working and the day is entirely yours to do what you like with it. What's the ideal happening?

[B]

I would get out early if I could and maybe I would go to the Thames Estuary and take a long walk along the Thames Estuary, start at Benfleet and walk all the way to Faunus island, maybe. I mean, I would stop off at a few cafes along the way and also maybe have some seafood at Leon Sea. Yeah. So that's what I would do for leisure. Yeah. And also love the cinema. So I would maybe then try to nip back and go to the BFI.

[A]

To round it all off.

[B]

Round it all off with something in the cinema. Yeah.

[A]

Fantastic. How does the Thames make you feel?

[B]

I feel like it's in my DNA.

[A]

What does that mean when you say you need?

[B]

Well, I was taken to the Thames Estuary a lot as a child. My family had a caravan there and it's a very particular landscape. It's natural and totally artificial, like big oil refineries and I mean a lot of them have been decommissioned now and turned into nature reserves. So it's kind of like a combination of nature reserves and post industrial landscape. But the way it makes me feel, it makes me feel very connected.

[A]

Connected to what?

[B]

Just connected to the landscape. It makes me feel like I belong somewhere. And also just on a sort of like more fantastical level, I looked into my family tree a bit on my mother's side because she didn't know her mother. She passed away when she was 2. So there's always been a bit of a fantasy, like connected to this side of the family. And so I decided to look into it or get my partner at the time's dad, he was very interested in family tree. So he looked into it and he said, well, your family have worked on the docks in on the Thames as far back as, you know, I can go. So that, you know, maybe I just feel very connected knowing that as well.

[A]

You mentioned the, the family history There.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's that experience been like to delve? Has it made you want to find out anything else about any other bits of family of yours?

[B]

Well, it was interesting because my mother, she had to make it all up because there was no information because it was quite traumatic for my grandfather. So he never really spoke about him. So there was this fantasy that we were from Rome, Italian immigrants, and we were from Rome and I don't know where the hell this came from. I think it's because my great grandmother always said, oh, they are gypsies, the other side of the family. She was very disapproving of the marriage and maybe this word Roma came up and maybe my mum got confused at Roma, Rome and. But anyway, so this idea of like, oh, we're from Italy, but I don't think we are at all. If anything there might be a bit of Roma in there because my, my mother was taken to see her uncle at some point when she was very young and she said that he lived in a flat but it was decorated like a caravan. It had all the kind of knick knackery of the traveling community. Anyway, how does it make me, you know, do I want to look into it more? The thing is, I got a little bit burnt out with it because the guy who researched it was so passionate about it. He went like very quickly and I was like a bit overwhelmed with all the information. So I was just like, okay, let me digest that for a while. And on my mother's side, she was kind of a little bit disappointed that there wasn't something more exotic. She was trying to desperately try to make herself more exotic than she really is. So at that point I was really pleased that my partner and you know, my father in law just really, they really bonded over it as well, which is really nice. I think I liked that bit like the most out of everything.

[A]

Yeah. How do you get on with your father in law?

[B]

Father? Oh yeah, he's a, he's a lovely man. Yeah. She got lucky there with him as a father. He's a very warm character.

[A]

When you say she got lucky.

[B]

Yeah. You mean my ex partner.

[A]

So you're no longer with this person who you are with?

[B]

Yeah, unfortunately not.

[A]

Is that sadness?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, there's a sadness there.

[A]

June the back and think I could have, should have done that.

[B]

Yeah, I mean, yeah, yeah, of course. Doesn't everybody?

[A]

What didn't you do enough of, do you think change? Interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can you elaborate?

[B]

I don't know. I think we're getting into some sort of Personal area which is a little bit painful for me. So maybe I would like to sort of, kind of. Because I think about that too much. I think the separation hasn't really been that long.

[A]

I see.

[B]

And so it's still a bit raw and you know, to sort of maybe talk about it with a stranger and the reasons why that's okay. Yeah.

[A]

I mean if you know, just vaguely connected but kind of moving you slightly away from the kind of personal nature of that. But I can imagine, you know, people may listen to this who are in relationships and yeah. Want them to thrive. If you could kind of look back in a general sense and think what would you say to people who.

[B]

I would say, well, there's lots of different things. But one of the things which I have sort of taken away from that is maybe if somebody tells you the way they feel, say somebody doesn't like a certain part of your behavior and they tell you this is how I feel about. Doesn't necessarily mean that's a criticism, something that you should become defensive about, you know, people. That's too general. But I personally get into the trenches too quickly. Well, I haven't done anything wrong and that's not necessarily what people are saying when they tell you that they're hurt. Ideally you would try to come to some agreement with that person about how your behaviour won't affect them so much. So that's one thing I'd take away from it. And another thing maybe is maybe don't expect too much of yourself. If it becomes apparent right from the beginning or very near the beginning that lots of changes are going to have to be made. Are those changes realistic? Because in the first flush of love everything seems realistic. So it's very hard to, you know, not get carried away with that and just hope you can deal with lots of different things, lots of different life changes. Because you know, I got into something where I was maybe over optimistic about what changes I could make in my life and we had to extricate ourselves from the situation. Which is.

[A]

Anyway, in those moments or the days after it kind of didn't work or what do you do when you're really out of sorts?

[B]

Well, I come here and I play guitar. Yeah? Yeah.

[A]

You're holding your guitar now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What kind of pieces do you play?

[B]

Well, at the moment I'm playing a couple of bark pieces because I didn't play classical guitar for like years and I've come to cuz I'm not, I'm not. Haven't got a classical guitar here. I've just got an acoustic guitar, but, yeah, I sort of trying to play some classical bases. Just trying to do something new. I've been trying to do that for the last couple of years. Yeah.

[A]

Tell me something you do as part of maybe your daily routine or some area of your life that you think is totally yours. What I mean by that is, do you think there's anything you particularly do which you don't think anyone else does?

[B]

No, absolutely not. I'm utterly unique. I strive to be ordinary. That would be my ambition in life. When I was younger, I wanted to be special and I wanted to be. Stand out and be noticed and get on a stage and say, love me, look at me now. I just want to disappear. Well, not disappear, that's not true. But I want to blend in. I want to be everyman, be unexceptional. Just want to be a good version of a human being, whatever that is.

[A]

What is the kind of apex of ordinary, then, for you? I mean, can we think of anything that could get you become even more ordinary?

[B]

Yeah, loads of ways.

[A]

How can we do it?

[B]

Having 2.5 kids.

[A]

We could get you some of those.

[B]

Yeah, I'd love that, actually.

[A]

Yeah, There you go. And then you probably have to have a less interesting job or profession. I mean, this is the bit that music is maybe too exciting. Very ordinary.

[B]

Oh, no, well, I can't let that go. I just want to be like an ordinary musician. I think it's what we're getting to here is I'm trying to undo my past desires, isn't it? It's like I was desiring to be some kind of genius or really wanted to be special. Yeah.

[A]

What did that look like?

[B]

It looked like Wembley Stadium and lots of people screaming at me. And that would have.

[A]

For good reason.

[B]

For good reasons. Yeah. No, look, get off.

[A]

Lead singer or in a band.

[B]

I always wanted to be a lead guitar player, actually, and sort of just do these endless, boring solos like Prince or something. You just wouldn't know when to stop, like. And so in my. So this would have been the eight, like the sort of late 80s stadium rock, kind of, like, ruled out in a way. So that was my template. I was going to like. Yeah.

[A]

So. So if I. So let's say, you know, your phone starts ringing now. Yeah, it's. It's Hollywood. There he is. There's someone shouting. Yeah, it's Hollywood.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They're like, look, you know we've got a slot come up at Wembley for a few songs. Can you come and do it? What do you say, I'd say, yeah, yeah, sure.

[B]

And I'm bringing my band. Yeah.

[A]

Are you saying, well, I'm going to try and make it the most ordinary performance possible.

[B]

It won't be possible, no. Because the band I'm in, it's too exciting. It's too exciting just by their sheer nature. But by our sheer nature, everybody in the band has a learning disability or autism and. Or interesting. So by our very nature, we're a bit off center.

[A]

Would your band cope with Wembley okay, do you think?

[B]

Well, I feel that just to do a Wembley gig, that would be great. Like to have that level of attention afterwards might not be good for some of the members. Might not be good for me. My role in the band is actually support. So I don't think it would be good for me. And I definitely don't think if somebody's more profoundly autistic that I feel that that might not be a great thing for them to have people screaming at them in the street or whatever.

[A]

We're about to be joined by a thousand children. I quite like this bench position because you just get. Sometimes get hordes coming by.

[B]

Yeah, you do. This is quite an active place, isn't it, this corner?

[A]

I quite like that, though, also.

[B]

It trains me to not get. To try to not get distracted. It's almost like a mindfulness within guitar playing.

[A]

Completely. So can I introduce, from what you just said, that you are yourself autistic?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I had a late diagnosis last year. Yeah, last year. Oh, last year I had a sort of semi diagnosis. Like an expert. I knew an ex, I knew somebody who could diagnose and they said, look, I'll do a free test if you like, because I was sort of interested in certain patterns of my behaviour. So she did the test and said, there's no way you can't be. But you don't necessarily need an official diagnosis because you've carved out a life for yourself where you've avoided.

[A]

A lot.

[B]

Of the things that will give you trouble that you won't be able to handle well, you'll find difficulty with. But I did. I did want to get an official diagnosis just to sort of get a second opinion and blah, blah, blah. And so, yeah, I saw four specialists. I think it was like three out of four people said, yeah, yeah, I think so. I think the diagnosis is. Yes. So, yeah.

[A]

What did that mean to you to get that diagnosis?

[B]

Well, that's interesting. Yeah. I mean, at the time I just felt really sorry for that young boy who went through the conventional education system and was just. You mean you myself who just probably felt really at sea within a sort of mainstream setting. Although I do feel glad in a way. When I first started school it was in the 1970s, so been given a diagnosis of Asperger's syndrome and I think then I would have been separated and put into special education and I would have had this idea of myself that I was other. And I don't think that would have been entirely useful for me. I think it was useful for me to just get through life and to a point where a diagnosis wouldn't make a huge impact on the way I saw myself. I did feel, as I say, I did feel very sorry for that young boy who suffered so much. But I was glad in a way that I got the diagnosis when I did.

[A]

If you can try and explain for people who don't know much about autism, what kind of the inside of your mind looks like that people don't see.

[B]

More like for me it's more. More what I feel I don't see. I feel like I might be blindsided slightly. So I always feel a little bit on guard that you know, I could be taken advantage of. There's always a sort of a vulnerability I feel there. There's the area that I'm not seeing. So sounds seem like more intense to me than the neurotypical. Maybe I like rituals a lot more than people that are neurotypical. But I can't say that for sure because I think everybody likes rituals but they're slightly obsessive behavior patterns. So I mentioned that I like to go to the cinema and I like to go to the bfi British film industry. And what they will do is they will have seasons of things. Like for instance at the moment they have a season by a director called Lindsay Anderson. That's not the point. The point is once they announce all the films, I'll just book every single thing and I'll have to see everything.

[A]

Got it.

[B]

And I'll have to see in chronological order as well. I sometimes book tickets to twice because then I realized oh okay, that's not particularly in chronological order. And I've booked it then and this film comes first. So I'm going to have to turn up on the day and see if I can get a ticket to see the film that comes before this film. You maybe notice with autistic people that they have some coping mechanisms which are that look obsessive.

[A]

I've got three more questions for you and then I'll leave you be. Cuz I don't want to take up your whole life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Actually, one of the questions actually involves you. I'm going to ask you to do something slightly ambitious I have yet to ask anyone to do. I tell you what, I'll warn you about it and then when it comes you, you'll be more. You'll know what's happening. So I'm gonna ask you to not to sing. You don't have to sing.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Unless you want to. But try and answer a question whilst playing the guitar.

[B]

I'll try, yeah.

[A]

Because you're the first person that I've encountered actually with an instrument on you. I thought that would make sense. Anyway, so we'll get to that. Okay. Before then, the questions, is there anything you would like to ask yourself and answer it. I asked this question because sometimes as we've been talking, you might have thought, oh, I would like to talk about this, or I've got something to say about that, or I'd like to answer this question, but that might not have come up.

[B]

Oh, well, the only question I'm thinking about asking myself is what do you really want? But that's a question I can't answer right now. So it's a question that I'm working on rather than have the answer to.

[A]

I see.

[B]

And I think that's a life's work in a way. What do you want? What do you really want?

[A]

The really is a big word there.

[B]

Yeah. Really.

[A]

It implies that the things you want may not be the actual things you want.

[B]

Yeah, they might. They might be what you really want. They might be sublimations for what you really want.

[A]

Can you. Because we're only here once. Can I ask you to have a stab at the answer?

[B]

I think I want to connect with people. I want to be useful. I want a purpose. I think I have that already, but it's very professional related. Maybe that could be expanded, be of use within the community. That's what I want. But what I really, really want. I might want to be loved. I might want to be a father. I might want all these other things that are not so tangible. I'm blivering on a bit, but.

[A]

No, no, no. All very, very interesting things. What is the biggest thing that has happened around you rather than to you?

[B]

I don't know if this is just a weird memory, but when I was a kid, I think I saw somebody almost get hit by lightning. There was a guy that always used to cycle up and down the road that I lived on. And it was a really hot summer day and he had his top off and the traffic lights exploded. Like there was a big fun sim. And then the traffic lights exploded and he was cycling past it. And then he looked almost like cartoon. Like, in my mind, he's like, hair is standing on end, his eyes were really wide. And he looked up at the balcony where we were, and he was like, did you just see that? And so that was a. You know, that was an enormous event. The nature was kind of like putting its hand, almost like.

[A]

That's a great one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's obviously stayed with you, but.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Is that the kind of. What's. What was the emotion you felt seeing that? Yeah.

[B]

Or just like. That looks really powerful. And he could have been unlucky, but he wasn't. So also the message I got from that is that bad things can happen near you and you can be unaffected as well. So you'd have to be unlucky for it to strike you directly. So the thing I took away from that is powerful things happen out of the blue, but they're very unlikely to happen to you directly.

[A]

I like it. That's a very good thing to take away. Okay, I'm going to give you the big. The big challenge now.

[B]

Right.

[A]

So I'll get back to the piece.

[B]

That I was playing.

[A]

That's it. The question is, what are you going to do next?

[B]

Right, so in answer to your question, first of all, I'm going to go to the toilet because that's a pretty basic human need that's got to be attended to. And then after that, I'm going to keep on keeping on because that's all we can do, really, any of us can do. And I've taken a bit of artistic license there with Bach. You saw the. Talk about the phone ringing. That is.

[A]

That's Hollywood.

[B]

Yes, Hollywood.

[A]

Rambley Stadium.

[B]

I wonder who that could be.

[A]

Actually, we'll find out.

[B]

People hardly call me.

[A]

That's exciting. Not exciting.

[B]

No, it's. I should basically. Yeah, that's okay. I'm not gonna say who that is, but. Yeah, right.

[C]

You were almost struck by lightning as a child. They sang prayers and hymns, dimmed the traffic lights. But you just stood up and cycled home for tea, Made a spa ball, played Final Fantasy. You were almost semi famous for a while. Signed a T shirt once in a Tesco aisle. Well, the years fell by and the posters all fell down, but you took no heed because you met Denise. Powerful things happen out of the blue, but they're fairly unlikely to happen to you. Powerful things happen out of the blue, you might never notice them happening to.