← Strangers on a Bench
Strangers on a Bench
EPISODE 11: If I Had a Boat
00:24:32
Tom Rosenthal talks to strangers on park benches, often leading to surprising revelations.
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- [00:04]
A
Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? What's your favorite day of the week?
- [00:45]
B
Wow, Friday. The weekend comes with responsibilities, even if they're only to enjoy yourself. Whereas Friday is a work day that sort of morphs into the weekend and that feels enjoyable and exciting.
- [01:10]
A
So Friday represents the best of both worlds for you. Something of the work day, something of the prospect of leisure.
- [01:17]
B
Yes, yes, it's a good way of putting it.
- [01:21]
A
And let's think leisure.
- [01:23]
B
Yeah.
- [01:24]
A
Can you take me through for you? What would be a kind of really ideal day? I want you waking up. I want anything, any detail you want to chuck in there is good. Gold star, right?
- [01:38]
B
Okay. So wake up magically late. I say magically because it doesn't happen very often to be able to look at the clock and say, wow, this isn't going to sound very late to you, but like 9:30 or something like that would be wonderful. Not having anything in the agenda too early on in the day, so slow. Breakfast, not too much to do, but something involving friends in the evening to give the day a little bit of a target. I think I have an issue with not wanting too much on the agenda, but then also feeling I'm wasting the day if nothing happens at all. So it's kind of. It's probably magical again, but balance of something in prospect, but not too much.
- [02:43]
A
You mention magic a couple of times in there as if it's a very distant reality. The chance of say, naturally waking up at 9:30.
- [02:54]
B
Yeah.
- [02:55]
A
Why is it taking magic for something that other people would think is fairly straightforward or some would. I'm not saying everyone.
- [03:01]
B
No, not everyone. I think when I had kids, well, when the kids were young, they would wake you up early. Before that time I was able to lie in. And since then it seems like you've got all this possibility but somehow you can't quite achieve it. Which is a kind of grandiose way to talk about a lie in. But that's what it feels like.
- [03:27]
A
The mountaintop of the lion you're trying to reach. Yeah, I mean, at least I can. As someone who has young ish children myself, who's been getting up at 6 o'clock for 10 years, I can see how even if you were the very best at lying in pre children, if you do something for that long, it's very hard to shake out of your system. I mean, talking thousands upon thousands of days.
- [03:54]
B
Yes, yes.
- [03:56]
A
Where you've done exactly the same thing.
- [03:59]
B
I think what would be nice would be to just accept that and get up at 6:00 clock, you know, but somehow or other I'm still trying to kind of, you know, lie there and bring about the possibility of a lion. But it's one of those things, isn't it? The harder you try, probably the harder it becomes, you know. Yeah. I remember seeing a cartoon once of a guy who had obviously been advised to relax more, but wasn't that kind of a person. And in the cartoon he's saying, you know, I want to be the very best at relaxing. I want to be at the cutting edge of relaxation. And it's a bit like that, isn't it? If you. It's almost a conundrum. You can't will it into being without undoing its nature. I suppose so, yeah. We're talking a lot about.
- [05:06]
A
Tell me, who were you before children, who you are not now? Nice easy question for you there.
- [05:17]
B
Yeah, crikey. Yeah. I think I was somebody who was very. He was quite surprised to discover how much I liked having children because wasn't particularly necessarily keen. So I think I was a person who was quite content to go on as I was, but then very pleased to discover that I was probably happier than I've ever been in that period you're now in. That's not really an answer to the question, is it?
- [05:52]
A
You're not the first person that hasn't quite answered a question on a bench. It's a difficult question. Well, I mean, maybe it's easier to kind of ask this. What, if anything, has filled the space left by the children not needing you as much.
- [06:06]
B
That's probably what I sat down on this bench thinking about, if I'm absolutely honest.
- [06:13]
A
Has one of them, like just gone to university or something older than that?
- [06:17]
B
Yeah, they're kind of mid-20s and early 30s. But that question still hangs in the air, I think at work, obviously, and my relationship with my wife, my friends and all those things. But I'm at a pivotal moment, I think, where I probably need to think about that question more carefully and about a work life balance. I think I'm probably putting too many eggs in there work basket without there being quite enough reward from that at the moment. So that begs the question of should I be getting a smaller work basket?
- [07:02]
A
Sounds like a trip to the basket shops in order.
- [07:07]
B
It'd be nice to see Them all laid out and be able to choose pretty great.
- [07:11]
A
That there's metaphorical shop and you go in, people just put it, how many.
- [07:16]
B
Eggs have you got?
- [07:19]
A
I think I'd have bought nothing. But instead of chat.
- [07:21]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [07:23]
A
Before I came and rudely disturbed your peace and your thinking, kind of, what's the wildest thought that creeps in? Have you got any kind of lurking. Oh, could I pull that off? Could I start this? Could I go here? Kind of, what's the most dangerous thought that's coming to you? That's achieved. That's vaguely achieved.
- [07:48]
B
Yeah. That's vaguely achievable. I don't think it's dangerous, but it. But it's. I think sometimes I think it would be nice to just live on a boat or something. You know, I've got this illusion that if you lived on a boat, you could diminish a lot of the demands on your. On your life.
- [08:10]
A
How so?
- [08:12]
B
I guess you would be unmoored, you know, quite literally. Or you could be literally unmoored and you would. I suppose I'm imagining bringing the size of my life down into that size rather than the size it is now. Feels like it would be helpful in terms of how much you have on your mind, that's all.
- [08:42]
A
I mean, do you say that in relation to kind of clobber? Do you feel you've got too much stuff? I mean, is it that as well?
- [08:51]
B
I think that's partly it because my wife and I often wonder about downsizing. And then we look around us at what we've got and just the prospect of trying to get things down to a manageable size to downsize is really off putting. There's stuff in every room of the house. You know, where would you even begin to rationalize your lives? So, yeah, the answer is, yeah, the clobber.
- [09:19]
A
When you think of yourself, if you picture yourself on this boat, is it just you?
- [09:27]
B
No, I don't know. If my wife would come with me, I wouldn't want to be off there without telling anybody. I'd happily be in contact.
- [09:38]
A
You'll happily announce your boat life?
- [09:40]
B
Yes, I think she'd come with me for some of the time. So I guess some of the time might be solo, but probably haven't gone into a huge amount of detail on it. It's just the. The quietness and the simplicity of it that appeals to me.
- [09:56]
A
Yeah, it's a thought that comes up every now and again with my partner. She's the one getting a boat.
- [10:02]
B
Oh, okay.
- [10:04]
A
And the boat for her represents a bit of a solitary spot where people can't bother her if she doesn't want them to.
- [10:12]
B
Yeah. Yeah, that's a good way of putting it. And I think my mum used to always say she just wanted to live in a little cottage by the. Which I think is probably a similar thing.
- [10:21]
A
Did your mum do that?
- [10:22]
B
She didn't. She didn't, but I think that was her version of that. Yeah.
- [10:27]
A
Without getting too practical here.
- [10:29]
B
Yeah. That could be your next podcast. Yeah.
- [10:34]
A
How to live in a boat could. I mean, you know, let's imagine you were diagnosed with some kind of condition where the doctor said, sorry, mate, you simply must live on a boat, otherwise it's going to be curtains.
- [10:53]
B
Yeah. That's quite a good diagnosis, isn't it?
- [10:58]
A
If the doctor did say that to you.
- [11:00]
B
Yeah.
- [11:01]
A
How quickly could you do it?
- [11:03]
B
I reckon you could if you had to.
- [11:08]
A
I suppose the problem is nothing's made. I mean, I suppose come to the crux of what the issue with so many things, it's a bit like sometimes I wonder, with this podcast, I go, well, no one's made me do this.
- [11:18]
B
Yes.
- [11:19]
A
So there's a kind of natural vanity to it. You know, sometimes we. I suppose the bonus of children, right, is that, you know, they want to do something, want to go somewhere. It's like, okay, the children want it. It's good for their development. It's good for this. Good for this. You know, you can rationalize it all away. Yes, let's live here because it's a good school. But then it comes to a point where like, oh, hang on. There's no good reason really, for anyone else, apart from you, to have this boat.
- [11:43]
B
Yeah. No, I think that's the. I think that is the issue if you've put other people first, which you tend to do as a parent, and perhaps you have a natural tendency to do that anyway. And then you get to the stage of life where really doesn't matter that much or quite so much to other people what you do, then you do have to make a decision that's more based on your own wants and needs. I'm at that point, really, and that's quite hard.
- [12:35]
A
What would your. I'm guessing, is your mother still with us?
- [12:39]
B
No, no, sadly not.
- [12:40]
A
What do you think if she was sat next to this bench and hearing stuff, what do you think she would say, I'll go take it, take it.
- [12:46]
B
No, don't worry.
- [12:47]
A
I can turn. I can turn off the.
- [12:50]
B
That particular call I don't want to take. Yeah.
- [12:54]
A
Is it, the boat dealer, it was. What do you think she would say?
- [13:02]
B
Well, she would say, yeah, that is a good question and one I have asked myself.
- [13:06]
A
So we know that she wanted the cottage by the sea. So you would, you would infer from that that maybe she would be into the idea that you'd be on a boat or something similar.
- [13:17]
B
Yeah, I think she would. I think she would probably say, don't leave it too late or try and make up your own mind. Yeah, I think she would be positive about it.
- [13:37]
A
Well, there you go. That's a good one.
- [13:38]
B
Yeah. Yeah, that is a good one.
- [13:40]
A
I do quite like you're talking about reasons for doing stuff, you know, to honor. To honor those that came before us and maybe even the things that they didn't do, they wanted to do. Yeah, it's kind of quite beautiful.
- [13:51]
B
It's a good motivation.
- [13:53]
A
Yeah.
- [13:53]
B
Yeah.
- [13:54]
A
It's all sounding quite compelling, really.
- [13:56]
B
Yeah.
- [13:56]
A
I mean, is it? This is a kind of desperately middle class thing, I'm about to say. But within reason, boats are not that expensive.
- [14:06]
B
Yeah, you know, I've looked into it.
- [14:08]
A
Compared to any kind of property, it's a different game.
- [14:12]
B
Yeah.
- [14:13]
A
And also you could get something fairly cheap and work on it.
- [14:17]
B
That would be half the fun. Yeah. It does seem quite achievable, doesn't it, as a kind of pipe dream? It's not that difficult really.
- [14:28]
A
So what are the chief obstacles then? I'm trying to figure out what they will be.
- [14:32]
B
I think they're probably just mental. They're just the sort of thing you were just talking about where you have to start putting yourself or your own kind of agenda first. And I think it's just finding your way to that decision that now is that time. You imagine that time is always 20 years away. And maybe you have to arrive at that place at some time, don't you? Maybe I have. And I think it's probably that awareness or that realization that's probably hard to quite allow.
- [15:07]
A
I know exactly what you mean. I do think humans have a propensity for kind of kicking the ball down the road, you know, God, there'll be a time when that happens and we'll have to think about that.
- [15:18]
B
Yeah.
- [15:19]
A
And if we keep saying it, then he always kicking the ball and then at some point there's no more road.
- [15:24]
B
Yes.
- [15:24]
A
And that's kind of. I don't know, I had a thought the other day which a little bit morbid, but, you know, maybe worth sharing out loud.
- [15:33]
B
Go for it.
- [15:35]
A
Well, I suppose when you have kids, there are Dates quite far away, which you look forward to. So you're like, you know, child will start secondary school in September 2025. And by then this would have happened and this would happen, et cetera, et cetera. And then that day comes, right. And you're like, oh, wow, that day's come.
- [15:52]
B
Yeah.
- [15:52]
A
You know.
- [15:53]
B
Yeah.
- [15:54]
A
And then, you know, there's another day.
- [15:55]
B
You'Ve got another line up.
- [15:56]
A
And every day there's always no more lines up. And it comes. And sometimes I think there's also a point where we're not here anymore.
- [16:04]
B
Yeah.
- [16:04]
A
And that's a day that comes.
- [16:06]
B
Yeah. I was thinking about today and I feel like.
- [16:08]
A
And I feel like. But we don't think about it like that. You see what I mean?
- [16:12]
B
Yeah.
- [16:12]
A
I'm gonna get everything done by the time my child starts separating. I'm not gonna get anything done when this day, when I'm not a haircut.
- [16:18]
B
Yeah. I was thinking that this morning. I was thinking, you know, get up, make a cup of tea. There's going to be a day when that doesn't happen. Of course you won't know anything about it, but as I understand it. But yeah, that day will come and it's not. I suppose that's the last of those target days, isn't it?
- [16:40]
A
Yeah.
- [16:40]
B
And we don't give it a proper. We don't consideration.
- [16:55]
A
I mean, I'm just trying to be really annoying here and think of other reasons why you should buy a boat. But what could we stay? What stage of life? What we at now for you, do you reckon if life was a year, what are we on? September.
- [17:11]
B
September probably. Yeah. As we are. Yeah. Perfect month.
- [17:16]
A
Kind of. You know, those in September, the ones that I see looking freshest are ones with a renewed purpose or something that keeps them going. And I think in a sense, like you are potentially elongating your existence.
- [17:34]
B
Yes.
- [17:35]
A
By giving yourself renewed purpose. And the more exciting it is, the more life it will probably give you.
- [17:42]
B
The more life enhancing and elongating it will be.
- [17:45]
A
Then it actually becomes kind of quite critical.
- [17:48]
B
Question of good health.
- [17:50]
A
So that's another one to kind of add to the list of reasons. Yeah. What would your father. I mean, what we did.
- [17:56]
B
Mother.
- [17:56]
A
What would father say? Dead. Dead father.
- [17:59]
B
No. Oh, alive.
- [18:01]
A
Fantastic. Well, if we can ask him.
- [18:03]
B
Yeah. Was it him on the side?
- [18:05]
A
Was it him phoning up earlier?
- [18:06]
B
No, it wasn't. No.
- [18:09]
A
Okay. This is a plot twist because what was his September like?
- [18:14]
B
He sort of started a new life somewhere and with somebody new and a little bit earlier Than September, probably mid August, but yeah, so that was his.
- [18:26]
A
Version which he had a summer fling.
- [18:29]
B
Yes, yes, yes.
- [18:32]
A
Can we say that it worked for him?
- [18:34]
B
I don't think it did.
- [18:36]
A
Oh, okay. But he's still alive though.
- [18:38]
B
But he's still alive. Yes. I mean he keeps himself busy, but yes, I think he would be probably up for it if I was to say I'm going for this project boat. He quite liked to boat himself.
- [18:51]
A
Oh, that's it. Can he lend a hand?
- [18:54]
B
Yeah, he probably could. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, there you go.
- [18:57]
A
That's another. That's. It could be a nice bonding with.
- [18:59]
B
Yeah, true.
- [19:00]
A
With father.
- [19:01]
B
True.
- [19:01]
A
God, these reasons. We've got a whole scroll of reasons now. Yeah, they're coming thick and fast. Oh, is he being a good dad, your dad?
- [19:13]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, in his own way, probably not the same style of fathering as I would recognize, as I would endorse, but he. Yeah, he has really. Over a lifetime. Yeah.
- [19:28]
A
His balanced out.
- [19:29]
B
Yeah, yeah.
- [19:32]
A
I suppose that's the bonus of having a long life. You could have time to make good.
- [19:38]
B
And certain other things that didn't go so well. Yeah.
- [19:42]
A
What have you. What have you tried to do? A bit differently to him, I suppose.
- [19:48]
B
Just be around both day to day and over the decades for my kids, as I say, he didn't stay with the family, so I suppose I've tried to be more essentially just there for them and maybe a little bit more emotionally attached or in tune with them rather than always just doing what he wanted and not thinking about the impact on others quite so much. Perhaps.
- [20:32]
A
Fatherhood has just really changed, hasn't. I mean, it's just such a. Basically fatherhood being almost entirely reinvented.
- [20:40]
B
I mean, partly it's us as fathers and partly it's the demands of the age, isn't it? It's easier for us to do that. I'm much older than you, but it's easier for my generation and your generation to do that than it apparently was for theirs. We shouldn't just blame them for being like that.
- [20:59]
A
No, you're right. Of course. Of course. This was the time. Yeah, no, you're right. I mean my father was not at the births of three of his four children.
- [21:09]
B
Was it yours?
- [21:10]
A
No, no, he wasn't at mine. No, he wasn't at mine. My mother always said she was waiting for him to come round the door. He never came. It was happy after that. That was just a brief aside, but I mean that is just an incredible thought.
- [21:26]
B
But again, but it wasn't expected at all.
- [21:28]
A
It wasn't necessarily expected.
- [21:29]
B
In fact, my father was told when I was being born by the midwife to go out and take a very long walk. And when he got back, it was all over.
- [21:37]
A
I mean, it having, you know, having attended the bus, there was many times where I felt incredibly redundant. I could see.
- [21:43]
B
Yes.
- [21:43]
A
I could see, like, why. Why have the extra body?
- [21:45]
B
Just. Yes.
- [21:46]
A
You know, getting the road from the.
- [21:47]
B
Midwife'S point of view. Yeah.
- [21:49]
A
Just an extra kind of anxious energy in the room.
- [21:52]
B
I'm going to have to go.
- [21:53]
A
Okay. Oh, great.
- [21:54]
B
Okay.
- [21:54]
A
No, that's absolutely fine. Well, we.
- [21:56]
B
We covered some.
- [21:58]
A
Oh, yes. So many questions I could have asked in between times. But the last one is, what are you going to do next?
- [22:06]
B
Next today?
- [22:06]
A
As in it can be today or just generally?
- [22:09]
B
Well, that was the whole discussion we've just been having, so I'll have to come back to you on that one. But right now I'm going to go and have lunch with my wife, so I'm going to have to pick something up and get it home. So that's why I have to go. But, yes, what am I going to do next? Remains to be answered where everyone can just.
- [22:28]
A
It's gonna have to just discuss.
- [22:30]
B
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Whether it's nautical or not.
- [22:36]
A
Well, thank you very much.
- [22:37]
B
Okay. That was a pleasure.
- [22:43]
C
If I had a boat I'd drift out to see you Nothing but current, just water and if I had a bow I'd go with the breeze if I had a bow I'd be free and I'll be somewhere at sea if you do come looking for me when you find a star if I make.
- [23:23]
B
You.
- [23:41]
C
If I had a boat I'd live like a dream Sailing a blanket of diamonds and say if I had a bow I'd shoot like a star if I had a boat I'd go far and I'll be somewhere at sea if you do come looking for me if you find a star you found.
- [24:19]
B
Me following our stage.