EPISODE 16: The Reluctant Flaneur

Summary

Podcast Summary: Strangers on a Bench – EPISODE 16: The Reluctant Flaneur

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Guest: Retired Wanderer
Release Date: December 30, 2024

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Introduction

In Episode 16 of Strangers on a Bench, host Tom Rosenthal engages in a candid conversation with a guest he dubs the "Retired Wanderer." This episode delves deep into the life of a 59-year-old Londoner who has embraced the flâneur lifestyle following his retirement. Throughout their dialogue, the Wanderer shares his daily routines, reflections on retirement, personal relationships, and his unwavering love for wandering the streets of London.

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The Life of a Retired Wanderer

Daily Routine and Love for Wandering

The conversation begins with the Wanderer detailing his typical day post-retirement:

"I'm retired so I don't really have [a favorite day]. During the week, I like to walk around London... I took the northern line up to Archway and now I'm in Hampstead Heath... and then I'm going to walk home back to Battersea and that's my day."
— Retired Wanderer [00:46]

He emphasizes the simplicity and freedom his retirement has afforded him, allowing him to explore London at his own pace.

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Embracing the Flâneur Lifestyle

Understanding the Flâneur

Tom introduces the concept of a flâneur—a term borrowed from French literature describing an individual who strolls the city in search of aesthetic pleasure. The Wanderer confirms his alignment with this term:

"In France there's a word for this wandering around aimlessly. It's called flaneur... but a lot of people have written books about and that's what I would like to do."
— Retired Wanderer [02:12]

He expresses a desire to capture the essence of his strolling experiences, both in London and during his visits to Paris.

Skepticism About the Term

Despite embracing the concept, the Wanderer admits a degree of skepticism regarding the term's pretentious undertones:

"I'm not sure if I like this term flaneur because it seems that the implication. It's a little bit pretentious."
— Retired Wanderer [03:31]

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Reflections on Retirement

Decision to Retire

The Wanderer discusses his decision to retire, highlighting that it wasn't a sudden choice but a gradual realization:

"Over a period of a few months, I was wondering, what am I doing this for anymore?... Why not?"
— Retired Wanderer [04:33]

First Day of Retirement

Contrary to romanticized notions, he downplays the significance of his first day, suggesting that the reality is less dramatic:

"The reality is it's not like that. Three weeks later, they probably don't even remember who the hell you are."
— Retired Wanderer [04:54]

Enjoyment Over Missing Work

He clearly states that he doesn't miss his working life:

"I enjoy being retired. On the whole, I'm not saying it's perfect, but it beats waking up and going to work every day."
— Retired Wanderer [04:29]

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Personal Relationships and Family

Independence and Contentment

The Wanderer revels in his independence, noting that his solitary lifestyle suits him well:

"Every day I wake up, it's pretty much my time is my own... I don't have any kids."
— Retired Wanderer [06:50]

Views on Relationships

He shares a somewhat cynical view of relationships formed through work:

"Basically he said 15% of people you hate, 15% of people you like. And the other 70%, well, it's just indifference."
— Retired Wanderer [06:10]

Family Dynamics

Originating from New Zealand, the Wanderer discusses his familial relationships, admitting a lack of closeness with his parents:

"Probably not too much, I would say. I don't think we were very close... I don't think we were very close."
— Retired Wanderer [22:28]

He also touches upon his father's passing, expressing a detached sentiment:

"He was driving a car and had a stroke and died... That's a good way to go. Right? To die relatively painlessly."
— Retired Wanderer [24:20]

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Views on England and London

Preference for London Over the Rest of England

The Wanderer unabashedly favors London, critiquing England's transportation and expressing disdain for other cities like Bath:

"I've got at least 20 more years and I've got a lot more place to see, basically... I suspect they're pretty unhappy... England, England's a very, very strange place in terms of travel."
— Retired Wanderer [20:38]

He humorously remarks on the impracticality of traveling within England compared to countries like China:

"In China, we have excellent public transportation... But in England, that is not practical."
— Retired Wanderer [19:25]

Love for London's Walkability

Highlighting London's walkability and aesthetic appeal, he praises its parks and historical sites:

"London is a wonderful city for wandering around. It's very walkable, there are beautiful things to see... I'm just trying to take advantage of that."
— Retired Wanderer [03:39]

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Future Plans and Legacy

Travel Aspirations

The Wanderer shares his goal to visit 100 countries, acknowledging that his journey is far from over:

"I think I'd be pretty happy if I'd made it to 100 countries."
— Retired Wanderer [09:37]

Minimal Concern for Legacy

He expresses a lack of interest in leaving a legacy or being remembered:

"It's just for my own when I'm in the nursing home 25 years from now. You think that was great to have been there. It's a very personal thing."
— Retired Wanderer [12:06]

Funeral Wishes

The Wanderer outlines his unconventional and modest funeral preferences, aligning with his atheist beliefs:

"I'm an atheist so there's no point putting me in a church... I'm trying to be honest."
— Retired Wanderer [12:23]

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Conclusion

Tom Rosenthal wraps up the episode by asking the Wanderer about his immediate plans, to which the guest humorously responds:

"After I leave you, which is going to be fairly shortly, I'm going to walk down Parliament Hill and I need to use the loos at the bottom by the cafe..."
— Retired Wanderer [27:27]

The episode concludes with a poetic monologue, "Monsieur Flaneur," encapsulating the Wanderer's free-spirited approach to life and his contentment in solitary wandering.

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Notable Quotes

• "I'm just wandering around because I like it. There's no deep psychology to this."
  — Retired Wanderer [02:18]

• "If you're sick of London, you're pretty much sick of life."
  — Retired Wanderer [20:36]

• "I'm pretty much a miserable git... He's better on his own, I think."
  — Retired Wanderer [08:05]

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Insights and Reflections

The episode offers a profound look into the life of someone who has chosen solitude and personal freedom over traditional societal structures like marriage and family. The Wanderer's reflections on retirement challenge conventional narratives, presenting a scenario where freedom surpasses routine and obligations. His candidness about personal relationships and lack of desire for legacy provides listeners with a unique perspective on contentment and self-sufficiency.

Moreover, his staunch preference for London over the rest of England sparks discussions about urban satisfaction and the disparities within a country's infrastructure and cultural offerings. The Wanderer's unapologetic embrace of his lifestyle serves as both inspiration and a catalyst for listeners to reflect on their own life choices and definitions of happiness.

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Note: All timestamps correspond to the provided transcript segments, ensuring accurate attribution of quotes and discussions.

Transcript

[Host]

Hello, sorry to bother you, can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? What's your favorite day of the week?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I can answer that very quickly. I'm retired so I don't really have one. It's about as simple as that really. But you know, during the week, you know, I like to walk around London. Today I walked along the river to Vauxhall to this excellent cafe. It's called the Kennington Lay Cafe. I hope not too many of your viewers go there because it's already busy enough. I had a very good, excellent breakfast and then I took the northern line up to Archway and then now I'm in Hampstead Heath and what I'm going to do after now is I'm going to walk down Parliament Hill to Waterstones, you know, and Gower street and read a couple of books and then after that I'm going to go to Chinatown and have some dinner. Then I'm going to slowly walk home back to Battersea and that's my day.

[Host]

This is brilliant. Okay, what do you have to say for. I mean, you know, what's quite funny about what you just said is that a very small percentage of people, one get a chance just to walk around, just to amble and to drift. So a lot of people, even if they had the chance to it, don't do it. What have you got to say for it? Why do you do it?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I like to see the sights of London. I like nature, you know, we're not having any video, but if you could sort of sit here. We're sitting here on this bench. We're overlooking this hill. We can see bits of London, you know, it's a magnificent view. In France there's a word for this wandering around aimlessly. It's called flaneur. I'm not sure if I'm saying it correctly.

[Host]

No, no, that's right.

[Retired Wanderer]

But a lot of people have written books about and that's what I would like to like to do.

[Host]

When did you kind of. When did it dawn on you that you were Thanur?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I'm not sure if I am.

[Host]

But I say you think you are. This is exactly what you do.

[Retired Wanderer]

I've done this my entire adult life. You know, my days off, I just sort of wander around a little bit. Normally I would go to Paris, you know, I love Paris. I'D go there for a week or two and I'd do the same thing. Walk around, take the metro out to some station that you haven't been to before and sort of walk back into town, you know, and see what it's like.

[Host]

Yeah. So has this spirit of wandering around. Can you kind of trace it at all to your upbringing or any part of your childhood?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I think the short answer is no. I mean, you can always sort of try to over intellectualize it. Okay. But this is just a hobby. It's as simple as that. I'm just wandering around because I like it. There's no deep psychology to this. Okay? It's not. Because it's not. I had some unusual feelings for my mother or father or anything like that. Okay. I mean, you know, you know, I'd like to make something up for your viewers, but it wouldn't be true. True. Okay.

[Host]

Do you have any people you see on your routes? Do you know what I mean? How do you spot a fellow flaneur?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, as I say, you know, I'm not sure if I like this term flaneur because it seems that the implication. It's a little bit pretentious.

[Host]

Yeah, it is a bit. I suppose the word sounds pretentious as well.

[Retired Wanderer]

It sounds a bit pretentious, but it's not. It's just wandering around. And you know, London is a wonderful city for wandering around. It's very walkable, there are beautiful things to see. It's interspersed with wonderful parks, historical buildings, you know, you name it, it's all here. And you know, I'm just trying to take advantage of that.

[Host]

Do you miss anything of your working life?

[Retired Wanderer]

No, no, no. I mean, I retired, you know, I'm 59 now and I retired towards the end of the pandemic. Two and a half years now. And I enjoy being retired. On the whole, I'm not saying it's perfect, but it beats waking up and going to work every day. I find.

[Host]

Was it an obvious decision? Do you know what I mean? Did you wake up one morning and go, I'm retiring. Does that mean no?

[Retired Wanderer]

I think over a period of a few months, I was wondering, what am I doing this for anymore? I had enough savings to live on, to live modestly for the rest of my life, and thought, you know, why not? Why not?

[Host]

Do you remember the first day of kind of when you woke up and felt the freedom from work? What was that feeling like?

[Retired Wanderer]

Before I retired, I always thought that I'd wake up one day and thinking, hello, this is the first day of the rest of your life. But it doesn't work out like that. The reality is it's not like that. Three weeks later, they probably don't even remember who the hell you are. Okay. Even though you worked there for 20 years. Okay.

[Host]

Yeah. What was your last day of work like? How did you choose to market or did you, as a last day? I mean.

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, nothing. It was just a regular day. In fact, I was at one of our outlying locations. I was there by myself, so at least I was spared, you know, any potential. Cake, this sort of thing. Okay.

[Host]

Oh, wow. So you just. So you spent the last day. You weren't round anyone really for the last day?

[Retired Wanderer]

Yeah, precisely, precisely. You know, there was a going away dinner.

[Host]

How did you find that?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I survived, put it that way.

[Host]

Any speeches?

[Retired Wanderer]

I had to give like a 32nd one just to thank people for, you know, for graciously giving me this dinner without sort of going to this David Attenborough type. If I could summarise it, I went out with a whimper, not a bang.

[Host]

And you were okay with that?

[Retired Wanderer]

Absolutely.

[Host]

You kind of aggrieved at having to do the dinner in the first place?

[Retired Wanderer]

No, that's compulsory. That's like going to your parents for Christmas, you know, it's one of those things.

[Host]

Okay, so you don't miss the relationships and work?

[Retired Wanderer]

No, no, not really. You know, you have people. Well, let me quote from a colleague, okay? Basically he said 15% of people you hate, 15% of people you like. And the other 70%, well, it's just indifference. Okay? That's about it. And I think he was pretty much right. Okay, Pretty much right.

[Host]

So do you have any kind of dependence in your life? Do you feel like, are you completely free of kind of other people?

[Retired Wanderer]

Yeah, no, I think I am. I think I'm pretty free. I'm not married, I don't have any kids. Every day I wake up, it's pretty much my time is my own. On the whole, that's a good thing. And people point this out to me, most people when they're in their 50s, males in particular. If you look at the people that I worked with, I suspect they're pretty unhappy.

[Host]

Why do you think that is?

[Retired Wanderer]

I think it's hard to say. It's hard to say this without being judgmental. And I'm not trying to say that.

[Host]

We'Ll let you off. I mean, it's not judgmental. It's just your view.

[Retired Wanderer]

I think, you know, they're in the sort of rut they have the sort of routine. It's not too interesting. It's the family. They have a wife. She's probably nagging a bit, perhaps a lot. There's probably not a lot of sex. Am I allowed to say that on your class? Okay. They have a couple of kids who just treat the parents like a private bank. I can't imagine it could be too good. That's my perception. I could be wrong. I could be wrong. I'm just. I could be right. I could be right. I'm just saying I'm glad that I don't have that.

[Host]

Sure.

[Retired Wanderer]

Okay.

[Host]

Any part of you that has wanted any of that at all at any point?

[Retired Wanderer]

I guess in a small part with a very small lowercase S, I guess on the whole, I think I'm pretty much a miserable git, you know. He's better on his own, I think. Simple. As simple as that.

[Host]

It doesn't seem that miserable to me. You seem quite upbeat.

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, no. Well, this is an artificial situation, right. We're sitting on a bench, a total stranger, and I'm trying to be, you know, congenial. Congenial. Otherwise, I wouldn't have agreed to this interview, obviously. But, you know, if you got to know better, you think, oh, God, he's a miserable git. You know, that's the way it is.

[Host]

Well, I slightly disagree in the sense that I think you're raising your. Your game for being. For being interviewed on a bench, maybe. But, like, you know, there's. There's lots of bounce to your presence. You know, you're wandering the streets, seeing interesting things. You're motivated to do so. You know, there's an element of buoyancy to your presence and to your endeavours.

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I mean, the thing is that. Okay. I mean, I'm. Okay, look, I'm 59 now.

[Host]

Nearly 60.

[Retired Wanderer]

60, right.

[Host]

How are you going to mark that occasion?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, let's not talk about that. Okay, so. Okay, so what I'm saying, statistics, you know, I've probably got 20, 25 years to live, Right.

[Host]

Quite a while.

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, that's a long time looking ahead. But when you're looking back, I can promise you that that's not a long time. That's like a little flash. And what I want to do is that I want to enjoy it as much as I can. So when I retired, I'd only been to 41 countries, so I've been trying to.

[Host]

When you say only, that's quite a lot.

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, compared to some people, that's not a lot. Anyway, so now I'm up to 49.

[Host]

Oh, good. Nearly at 50, you're capturing your age of countries.

[Retired Wanderer]

And by next March, I'll be up to 60. Oh, 60. So I had this aim. I had this rough aim of getting to a hundred. Now, bear in mind, There are about 230 countries and territories. Okay.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Retired Wanderer]

So that's not even half the world, but yeah, I think, you know, I think I'd be pretty happy if I'd made it to 100 countries.

[Host]

That'd be a good. That'd be something to be proud of.

[Retired Wanderer]

Yeah.

[Host]

When you go to a country.

[Retired Wanderer]

Yes.

[Host]

What do you try and bring back? Are you collecting the experience of just soaking up being there? Are you wanting to go and see particular sites? Are you wanting to meet particular people? You're interested in how people operate? What do you want to carry with you when you go to such places?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I think it's almost exclusively, you know, wanting to see the size. You know, I'm not particularly interested in the. And the people there or buying cheap souvenirs and things. You know, I like to see the sights and, you know, I can see things pretty quickly and you can enjoy the experience. And there's a certain satisfaction of going to a place. Like, for example, I was on this tour and we end up in Laos. They have some beautiful places, sights to see there. And there's a certain satisfaction of going to these places and knowing that you're never going to ever, ever be back there. Okay. Okay. Okay. I'm glad I'm just a tourist here. And then I'll be out of here. There's a certain satisfaction. It's sort of perverse, really. I mean, people say, well, why the hell are you going there on vacation if you're going to behave like that? You know, but that's just the way it is. Just the way it is.

[Host]

Do you see it as a kind of like a final tour in a sense? Like. Like as if you were a band. You're going to all these different places for the last time, first and last time. There's something magic in that.

[Retired Wanderer]

No, this is more like the Rolling Stones saying that and then coming back, coming back with the money so good. They just keep on going, keep on going, with probably 10 doctors in attendance in the back, just in case. But, you know, as I say, I've got. I've probably got at least 20 more years and I've got a lot more place to see, basically.

[Host]

Are you concerned at all about kind of recording your adventures? Do you want anyone to know about them? I mean do you want to pass them on to anyone?

[Retired Wanderer]

No, it's just for my own when I'm in the nursing home 25 years from now. You think that was great to have been there. It's a very personal thing. It's not really for other people.

[Host]

So you're not particularly concerned with any idea of legacy?

[Retired Wanderer]

No, not at all. Not at all.

[Host]

That's quite freeing I guess.

[Retired Wanderer]

No, no. Well I mean since you're alluding to that, you know, when I die I don't want to have a grave and I don't see the point of buying this expensive coffin, having this service with a funny limousine thing. Okay. I'm an atheist so there's no point putting me in a church. If they would have me potentially I would like to have, you know, cardboard coffin, cremation. Perhaps you could sprinkle me, you know, on the rose garden. You know, you can sort of act as some fertilizer. That was your final part in life. And people say, you know, well that's very bleak and that's very depressing, perhaps even self pitying. But you know, that's the way I would feel about it.

[Host]

It's absolutely fine. I would say for you, I mean what would make more sense if someone did one of your routes through London, just sprinkling a bit if they went? No, doesn't that make a bit more sense?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well I don't. As I say, if you want to sprinkle me on Hampstead Heath that would be great but you know, no one knows about my little walks until now. Until now.

[Host]

What is your favourite kind of London walking route to do and can you kind of take us through the journey of that route? Okay, where are we starting?

[Retired Wanderer]

Okay, I would leave my flat, I would cross Chelsea Bridge and usually It'd be between 10 and 11. I don't wake up to 10 o'clock.

[Host]

What are we having for breakfast by the way?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well we're getting there. Oh okay fine, we're getting there. No breakfast.

[Host]

Any pre routine before you leave the house?

[Retired Wanderer]

Shower, that's it. So there are two options basically. One, it's got to be an early lunch at Wong Kee, the Chinese restaurant in Chinatown, 11:30.

[Host]

That's quite an early lunch. Like that's kind of breakfast, eh?

[Retired Wanderer]

So it's either that or it's going to be Kennington Lane Cafe in Vauxhall for the English breakfast. So let's just pretend we're heading to Kennington Lane Cafe. So I'm having the set breakfast and then I'd sort of walk along for.

[Host]

Where are we walking, though? What's the.

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, let's say we're going to go to Regent's park eventually or walk back across the bridge. I'll walk along. It's Vauxhall Bridge Road. So I'd end up in Victoria. And then I take especial care crossing the road because you may or may not have heard two people have been run over by buses in the last 18 months and killed there at Victoria Station. You have to watch out for it because, you know, you think that bus that's going to squash you like a bug potentially. Okay, so forget about that.

[Host]

Okay, so we're dodging the bus.

[Retired Wanderer]

Okay, so I dodge the bus, I make it across Victoria Station, and then you go through those two little parks in front of the station where all the vagrants are trying to avoid the homeless people. And then you have to face the traffic fumes walking behind Buckingham palace. And then suddenly you're on Hyde Park Corner. And then you have that wonderful. One of my favorite parts of Hyde park on the eastern edge where you have the trees on either side. The next thing you next hazard you gotta watch out for is these cyclists. Okay, Avoid the cyclists, avoid the cyclists. I'm on the eastern edge of the park and I usually sit down. I find being between the trees very soothing. Okay, Very soothing. Now, I hope you're not gonna allude to, you know, any sort of Freudian type thing.

[Host]

Trees.

[Retired Wanderer]

No, between the trees. You know, it's nothing to do with ladies. Private parts of the womb or the womb or anything like that. Okay, Okay.

[Host]

I wasn't thinking it.

[Retired Wanderer]

Okay. Anyways, I shouldn't have said that because I thought you were going to say that I was going to cut you off. I was just going to cut you off there. But anyway. But what I say, I find it very aesthetic and very soothing to be between the trees. So there you are, you're between the trees. The sun's coming down through the leaves, ideally. And eventually I'm heading up to Regent's park. So go all the way up to, I think it's called Dorset Square. And then, you know, I scoot around the corner past the Baker street station and then, you know, I'm into Regent's Park. Okay, so then I hope I'm not boring you. I'm speaking excruciating things.

[Host]

Not at all. Okay, keep going.

[Retired Wanderer]

Okay, well, we're getting towards the end anyway. So then I'll detour across the park and I'd end up in Waterstones in Torrington. Place one of my horns.

[Host]

Have a little peruse of the books.

[Retired Wanderer]

Peruse the books.

[Host]

Is it okay to just to look? Do you feel like you need to buy?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I very rarely buy. Okay. And I hope the owner is not watching this podcast, but I usually sit there for a couple of hours and I actually read the books.

[Host]

They never say anything.

[Retired Wanderer]

They never say anything. They never say anything. Okay.

[Host]

What would you do if they did?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I'd have to get up and leave, I guess, but no one's ever said anything. Okay. I don't think they mind if you go to this shop. It's one of these wonderful old Victorian Gothic buildings. And there are lots of nooks and crannies, especially on the third floor, where you can sort of sit down and read something. And I can read at about 100 pages an hour. So basically. Actually, I hope the owner is not watching this, but I've read all the latest books for free. But I have spent a lot of money there in the past. In the past.

[Host]

So you deserve it.

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I don't want to sort of justify myself, but anyway, I like to read books.

[Host]

What would your book be about?

[Retired Wanderer]

Sorry?

[Host]

What would your book be about if.

[Retired Wanderer]

I was the right one? Well, no one would want to read it.

[Host]

How'd you know?

[Retired Wanderer]

Unfortunately, I'm positive.

[Host]

We don't know that. Positive. Every author out there has probably thought, well, who's interested in reading me?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, a lot of them would be right as well. I mean, as I say, I'm not interested in writing a book.

[Host]

The Diary of a Flaneur.

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I think that idea's been overdone. And I think if you were to use that word, that would be one sure way of reducing sales of your book. So people saw that, they think, oh, pretentious bastard.

[Host]

That's what I would think maybe called, but pretentious bastard.

[Retired Wanderer]

Miserable bastard.

[Host]

Miserable, pretentious bastard.

[Retired Wanderer]

Miserable bastard wanders London.

[Host]

I think I'd pick that up. So, right, so you're wandering around, okay. And you've got. No, as we've said, you've got no kind of particular person who's waiting for you.

[Retired Wanderer]

Right.

[Host]

I guess you've got no. Any animals.

[Retired Wanderer]

No. No.

[Host]

Nothing in Battersea needs you. Right. Of any day.

[Retired Wanderer]

Right.

[Host]

What stops you from just sometimes just carrying on? I mean, like, what makes you turn around? I mean, do you sometimes think, God, just got to keep going, see how far I go?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, one I have to have my meals and one, I have to have a bed for the night. I prefer it to be My own bed.

[Host]

My own bed.

[Retired Wanderer]

I mean, you know, I'm not sure if your viewers would be interested in my views of traveling around provincial England. But England, that'll read the second book. Right? But England. England's a very, very strange place in terms of travel. Okay? Transport here is bad or expensive or both. Right? So, you know, I'm not going to say, God, I've never been to Bath. I'll just go to Bath. You know, if you're in some other country, for example, if you're in China, we have excellent public transportation. You could wake up in the morning in Shanghai and say, well, today I'd like to go to Beijing. And you can get there in a fast train, a real train, not an English train. It gets there in four and a half hours. But in England, that is not practical.

[Host]

But can't you get to Bath in about an hour and a half? Well, on the train, isn't that the same thing? Well, no, you just don't want to go to Bath. What have you got against Bath?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, I'm just going to give that an example. It's just not really. Not really doable. And the other thing is that, to paraphrase Dr. Johnson, if you're sick of London, you're pretty much sick of life. Really. Everything's here. Okay, what's good about England?

[Host]

What is good about England?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, all those things that I've just described, the majority is concentrated in London. Now, if you have any viewers outside of London, they're going to be mercy.

[Host]

You'Ve already lost the people of Bath.

[Retired Wanderer]

I'd have to apologise, groveling, apology to people who live outside London, but I'm unapologetically, you know, London is where it's at.

[Host]

Did you always know that?

[Retired Wanderer]

Absolutely. Absolutely.

[Host]

And you've never doubted it?

[Retired Wanderer]

I've never doubted it.

[Host]

Did you grow up in London?

[Retired Wanderer]

No, I grew up in New Zealand. I didn't leave the country till I was 24. So when I first came here, you know, 30 years ago, it was a real revelation coming from a small provincial place that had, you know, three television stations or one television station when I was a child.

[Host]

What was that called?

[Retired Wanderer]

TV1.

[Host]

Inventive name. I mean, what kind of thing was on TV1?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, quite a few of these BBC programs, you know, it had, I don't know what it's called.

[Host]

Faulty towers and Faulty towers.

[Retired Wanderer]

And then it ain't Half hot, Mum. And then there was Three's Company about some guy in Chelsea with two chicks. And then there was Benny Hill. Benny Hill. Okay. That was the first smut on tv. Smut on tv.

[Host]

When you left it behind, who did. Who did you leave behind? Back home? As in back in New Zealand?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, my parents still living there? Still are living there.

[Host]

Oh, they're still alive.

[Retired Wanderer]

My father's dead, but my mother's still very much alive. So.

[Host]

How often do you talk to her?

[Retired Wanderer]

Not really much talking. You know, phone at Christmas, this sort of thing.

[Host]

You miss her at all?

[Retired Wanderer]

I hope she's not listening to this, but, you know, probably not too much, I would say. You know. You know, I don't think we were very close. Yeah, I'm sure not many people would want to. Want to admit that, but, you know, I'm trying to be honest. No, I try to be honest.

[Host]

I commend that. It's refreshing to hear someone that's open about that. You know, just because someone's your mother is a guarantee of closeness. I mean, of course.

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, of course. You know, I had four siblings. Two of them moved to Australia and. Two of them.

[Host]

What number are you out of the five?

[Retired Wanderer]

I'm the oldest. My two other siblings, the two other girls. Well, they moved about less than a mile from my mother.

[Host]

So your mother's kind of covered.

[Retired Wanderer]

So my mother's covered, yeah.

[Host]

So that means you can be relaxed.

[Retired Wanderer]

Yeah, there's a bunch of grandkids and stuff.

[Host]

Are there any kind of family regrets lingering? Do you wish you saw more of them or less of them or.

[Retired Wanderer]

No regrets? I mean, basically. How do I put this? My mother's getting on, has some chronic illness, and I'm trying to be a more filial son. Okay. Put it that way. So every year I make a point of going there for a month.

[Host]

That's nice. So that's quite a chunk. You know how you say very openly that you've, you know, never felt particularly close to your mum?

[Retired Wanderer]

Yeah.

[Host]

Do you harbour any kind of ill feeling regarding that? Do you kind of wish it wasn't like that?

[Retired Wanderer]

No, because there's nothing. There's no specific reason for. It's nothing that she's done. It's nothing like that.

[Host]

It's just two characters not getting on.

[Retired Wanderer]

Yeah, that's. Yeah, that's.

[Host]

What about you and your father, how was that?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, that was pretty much the same as.

[Host]

Well, what was. What was the event of him dying like for you? What did it mean?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, a little disconnected, you know. You know, he basically. He was driving a car and had a stroke and died, and luckily no one else was injured. The thing I Was thinking was perhaps this was a selfish thing, was that that's a good way to go. Right? To die relatively painlessly.

[Host]

Did you have any duties at the funeral?

[Retired Wanderer]

No, no, One of my sisters sort of made. Did the talking. I just basically had to show up in the suit and, you know, look mournful. Basically put it that way.

[Host]

Did he do a good job?

[Retired Wanderer]

Oh, yeah, Yeah, I think I did.

[Host]

Is anything you would like to have said at the funeral that you didn't say, like, would you. Was anything said about your dad that you didn't agree with? I mean, were they?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, what. Well, okay, well, my father was a very strong atheist.

[Host]

Right.

[Retired Wanderer]

But it was held in an Anglican church. Okay. Yeah, but what the guy said at the end, he said, well, Jack, that was my old man, that was his nickname name Jack. I'm sure at the end, you know, he was a Christian. You know, you could say it with a straight face.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Retired Wanderer]

The priest should probably go into politics in England, you know, if you were going to say stuff like that. If it hadn't been that situation, it would have been comical. Okay. If I believed in the afterlife, you know, he would have not been happy, but he'd be knocking on the. He'd be knocking on the underside of the coffin or something. That's bullshit. That's just total.

[Host]

So do you have any particular dreams for your own funeral?

[Retired Wanderer]

No.

[Host]

If you had to have one person present at your funeral, you forced to, for whatever reason, have one person present at your funeral who you. Who. You know, who would it be? Just one God?

[Retired Wanderer]

That's a good question.

[Host]

And it's not the official. I mean, it's not like whoever's doing the business. It's just someone. He's got to just be there.

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, to be quite honest, I can't honestly think of anyone. I honestly can't think of anyone.

[Host]

Okay, so I think maybe the owner of the Waterstones.

[Retired Wanderer]

I don't think. I think he might be a bit. He might be too busy. He might say, you bastard, we've got rid of.

[Host]

No way. He'll be so delighted to want to see you off, person.

[Retired Wanderer]

Instead of having two burly security guards throw me out of the building. But as I say, I don't want to be too. I don't want to. Too morbid to think that, you know, I'm obsessing about, you know, my demise. But we're just talking about how I would like it to be. Okay, but, you know, you know, you know, but would you like to ask me anything else? I Don't know. I'm just going to say, okay, we sort of covered everything we're talking about, my dear. Perhaps that's a logical place to stop. I don't know.

[Host]

It probably is, isn't it?

[Retired Wanderer]

I don't know.

[Host]

Okay, I'll ask you the same question that I ask everyone at the end of these things.

[Retired Wanderer]

Okay?

[Host]

Can you either answer this in a very grand way, okay. Or a little way, what are you going to do next?

[Retired Wanderer]

Well, in a little way, after I leave you, which is going to be fairly shortly, I'm going to walk down Parliament Hill and I need to use the loos at the bottom by the cafe in a grand way. I wish I could, you know, offer you some sort of Samuel Beckett type, some answer, but unfortunately I can't think of anything. You know, the other day someone was asking me about Waiting for Godot. Okay. They were thinking of going scandicia to the theater. And I said, well, let me summarise it for you and save you £50. It's about two vagrants sitting by a tree on the side of the road talking some bullshit while waiting for this Godot guy to show up who never shows up. We're done. Okay? Okay. Okay.

[Monsieur Flaneur]

Hey, Monsieur Fana, where will your wanderings take you today? Over the bridge to Chelsea or the Kennington Main Cafe? Maybe some lunch in a hidden Soho street? Monsieur Fanaud, life is so sweet. Waltzing all around the world, traveling through the years, collecting all those memories. No cheap souvenirs. You don't need to worry about money and stuff. You don't need a partner. You're more than enough. Oh, Monsieur Vlana, Monsieur Vanaud.

[Host]

Will you.

[Monsieur Flaneur]

Take yourself to the bookshop where you read all the latest for free? Or a detour to Highgate or Hampstead to plan your next trip overseas? Free as a bird. Strolling round the city with ease. Monsieur Flanner, you do as you please. Waltzing all around the world, Traveling through the years, collecting all those memories. No cheap souvenirs. You don't need to worry about money and stuff. You don't need a partner. You're more than enough. Oh, Monsieur Flana, Monsieur Flanagan.