EPISODE 30: He Thinks He's Guru Nanak

Summary

Podcast Summary: Strangers on a Bench – EPISODE 30: He Thinks He's Guru Nanak

Release Date: April 7, 2025
Host: Tom Rosenthal

In Episode 30 of Strangers on a Bench, titled "He Thinks He's Guru Nanak," host Tom Rosenthal engages in a profound and candid conversation with an anonymous guest. This episode delves deep into themes of personal identity, coping with a chronic illness, relationships, and the quest for meaning in everyday life.

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1. Opening the Dialogue: Favorite Days and Ideal Lives

The podcast begins with Tom approaching a stranger on a London park bench to discuss the concept of an ideal day. The guest immediately challenges the notion of having favorites, stating:

Guest [00:47]: "I can honestly say I don't have a favorite anything."

This sets the tone for a philosophical exploration of what constitutes a fulfilling life beyond societal expectations and superficial preferences.

2. Daily Life and Coping Mechanisms

The guest outlines a typical day, emphasizing routine and the importance of activities that support mental and physical well-being:

Guest [02:47]: "Walk the dog, do some exercise. I have a neural disability, so exercise is good for me."

Golf emerges as a significant hobby, not for competition but for personal acceptance and mindfulness. The guest reflects on golf's challenges and its role in fostering a present-focused mindset:

Guest [03:23]: "Golf for me is an amazing experience where you can just really be in acceptance of what is. Because it's a fucking hard game."

3. Navigating a Career in Music

Balancing work with personal passions, the guest discusses a career in music, highlighting collaboration with a long-term composing partner:

Guest [06:02]: "I'm a musician, so I get to do what I love."

This segment underscores the fulfillment derived from engaging in creative endeavors without attachment to outcomes, aligning with the guest's broader philosophical views.

4. Confronting Parkinson's Disease

A substantial portion of the conversation centers on the guest's diagnosis of Parkinson's disease. Diagnosed two and a half years prior, the guest shares insights into coping with the condition through a spiritual lens:

Guest [08:03]: "My understanding of life from a spiritual perspective is incredibly useful and helped me to understand and absorb the diagnosis."

He elaborates on viewing Parkinson's as an opportunity for personal growth and shedding conditioned beliefs:

Guest [09:49]: "To me, the time that we get on this planet is about learning to understand something, about what our true nature is, not what our constructed nature is."

The guest also expresses frustration with the medical establishment's accessibility to innovative treatments, advocating for greater investment and adoption of promising therapies.

5. Relationships and Family Dynamics

The guest opens up about being in two long-term relationships—a life partner of 35 years and a music partner of 25 years—and how these relationships intersect:

Guest [07:16]: "My grandparents on my mum's side... very adventurous."

He discusses the challenges of parenting, sharing a personal anecdote about a conflict with his son:

Guest [16:13]: "I was wrestling with my son... and then you just explode."

This honesty highlights the complexities of maintaining relationships while managing personal struggles.

6. Reflections on Childhood and Societal Changes

Nostalgia surfaces as the guest reminisces about a carefree childhood, contrasting it with contemporary societal pressures:

Guest [24:02]: "Building ramps for our BMXs and making them as high as you could possibly go until one of you fell off."

He acknowledges that each generation perceives its own challenges uniquely, resisting the notion that "kids these days" are fundamentally different from previous generations:

Guest [26:00]: "If you're getting bombed out in the war or whatever happened in any generation of the last however many thousand years, you'll have people going, it's not the same as it was when I was a kid."

7. Technology and Personal Interests

The guest reveals a minimalistic relationship with technology, eschewing social media and addictive browsing:

Guest [27:09]: "I'm not a doom scroller. I don't have any social media."

His interest in niche communities, such as train enthusiasts, reflects his broader appreciation for simple pleasures and authentic connections.

8. Addressing Gambling and Medication Side Effects

Discussing the side effects of Parkinson's medication, the guest touches on the risks of compulsive behaviors like gambling:

Guest [32:28]: "There's a lot of interesting stuff out there... The guy could barely walk... runs the Boston Marathon."

He criticizes the exploitative nature of gambling industries, advocating for compassion and systemic change rather than personal blame.

9. Final Reflections and Closing Thoughts

As the conversation winds down, the guest shares his plans and encapsulates his approach to life:

Guest [34:20]: "Go to the studio, make music, go home, hang out with my wife, see my kids, see my friends... learn, learn, learn until I drop dead."

The episode concludes with a poignant poem, blending the guest's introspective journey with artistic expression:

Poet [35:11]:
"I have seen a thousand suns but only loved a few
Made my peace with mysteries and mornings in the doom
His senses fade like phantoms I just want to
To feel the same
Cuz if I don't what remains..."

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Key Takeaways

• Embracing Imperfection: The guest emphasizes living without rigid attachments to ideals, fostering resilience in the face of adversity.

• Mindfulness and Acceptance: Activities like golf serve as metaphors for accepting life's challenges and remaining present.

• Spiritual Coping Mechanisms: Viewing personal struggles as opportunities for spiritual growth provides a framework for enduring hardship.

• Complex Relationships: Navigating multiple long-term relationships requires open communication and mutual understanding.

• Intergenerational Perspectives: Recognizing that every generation faces unique challenges helps in appreciating diverse experiences.

• Balanced Technology Use: Limiting engagement with digital distractions can lead to more meaningful interactions and personal fulfillment.

• Advocacy for Medical Innovation: The guest's call for improved access to innovative treatments highlights the ongoing need for progress in healthcare.

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Notable Quotes:

• Guest [03:23]: "Golf for me is an amazing experience where you can just really be in acceptance of what is. Because it's a fucking hard game."

• Guest [09:49]: "To me, the time that we get on this planet is about learning to understand something, about what our true nature is, not what our constructed nature is."

• Guest [34:27]: "Learn, learn, learn till I drop dead."

This episode of Strangers on a Bench offers listeners an intimate glimpse into the guest's life, marked by resilience, introspection, and an unwavering pursuit of authentic existence amidst personal and societal challenges.

Transcript

[Host]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. What day of the week do you favor?

[Guest]

You know, it's funny, I get asked all types of different questions about what do you favour? Who's your favourite band? Who's your favourite actor? What's your favourite day? And I can honestly say I don't have a favourite anything.

[Host]

That's good.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

But day is a little bit different to actor, though, isn't it?

[Guest]

Not really. It's a preference, isn't it?

[Host]

Yeah. Or do you have a preference for a day? No, None. Okay, that's fine. Okay. Let's just go for any day then. Take me through from getting up to going to bed. What for you is within reason. What for you is the ideal day of being alive.

[Guest]

Ideal day.

[Host]

Well, much detail as you can.

[Guest]

Yeah. I think you're gonna find me a bit annoying.

[Host]

Well, let's see what happens.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Host]

If you're worried, don't be. Cause I've seen a lot of people on benches and not a lot is gonna annoy me.

[Guest]

Okay. So I was talking to this friend in the park this morning and she's telling me how happy she is that it's sunny because the grey clouds have gone. And, you know, this idea that we buy into the things that we need to make ourselves feel whole. And so we look at the day of the week, or the actor, or, you know, what's my ideal day? Or what's my perfect relationship?

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And I think the truth is that. My understanding, shall we say, not the truth, my understanding is that none of that really, truly exists apart from in our own heads. So I don't have an ideal day, but a day for me, yeah. Is to get up, obviously, early.

[Host]

What kind of time?

[Guest]

About seven.

[Host]

Nice.

[Guest]

Walk the dog, do some exercise. I have a neural disability, so exercise is good for me. So I used to play quite a bit of table tennis, but now I've really got into the golf. So I try and sneak off to the golf course, which is really good for my brain and my physicality and my movement. And also golf for me is an amazing experience where you can just really be in acceptance of what is. Because it's a fucking hard game.

[Host]

And.

[Guest]

It'S a cruel game. And if you're in any way, like, invested in each shot, you're gonna suffer. So you have to just take things as they are. So I love golf for that.

[Host]

You playing with anybody?

[Guest]

Yeah. A couple of mates.

[Host]

Yeah. Competitively?

[Guest]

No. See, that's another sort of mind game.

[Host]

I'm not doing that. I'm not doing any competition. Is that you just opting out because you're not as good as it.

[Guest]

No, no, no. I think there's inevitably a little bit there. I can't deny that. But being competitive, it doesn't fulfil me.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Enjoying being there in the moment, right in the centre of a shot, not thinking about anything else, just like really in the moment. Like we are now just sat on a bench chatting. That probably is the ultimate, to be able to be sat without any beliefs about how something should be. Just be with what it is.

[Host]

How would you sell golf to someone that thought it was kind of an elitist sport?

[Guest]

Well, it's only really elitist in this country if you go to Scotland or you go to Ireland. It's a much more man of the people game.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

But, you know, if you have one good experience, like you hit one half decent shot, you want to come back.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

So, yeah.

[Host]

Do you remember your first, you know, you talk about that one shot that gave you where you caught the bug. Do you remember that shot?

[Guest]

Years ago, my mum and dad lived on, or still do live on this bungalow kind of site, on a holiday site, and it had a par three course and I borrowed some clubs from the thing and went out and weirdly, could just hit it.

[Host]

Just naturally.

[Guest]

Just kind of naturally just came to you. Yeah. You know, and it quickly went away again. But in that moment I had the experience of just focusing on the ball, taking a swing, hitting it and it just. Oh, man, that feeling, that sound and that feeling. Beautiful.

[Host]

So back to your. This nice day there. You finished your golf.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

You've had your golf time. You have a little cup of tea with your mates after.

[Guest]

You know what? I generally don't really have time because I've got to get back and train. I've got to get back for work.

[Host]

And then work is part of this, just this normal day. But it's not ideal now. It's just a day. Yeah. You're happy working?

[Guest]

I'm happy right now.

[Host]

Good. It's good to know. But you're back at home now and you're working. Is it work that is satisfying in the main? Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Guest]

I'm a musician, so I get to do what I love. Sometimes it's, you know, like anything that. Exactly what you want to be doing in that moment. But then like I said earlier, once you established the nature, it's kind of. You could sum it up in this notion that to take part, but to not be attached to which way the taking part goes.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Good or bad?

[Host]

Yeah, I like that.

[Guest]

There isn't a good or bad. You just do it regardless of what's going to happen. And then whatever happens, you deal with and then you move on to the next thing.

[Host]

So are you religious? So you're going back and you're writing music or playing with other people?

[Guest]

Composing. I do a little bit of live stuff, but mainly in the studio. We have a studio.

[Host]

You say we?

[Guest]

Me and my composing partner.

[Host]

Is that your partner? Partner as well?

[Guest]

No, no, no, no, no. Just my long term music partner.

[Host]

Oh, so you also have a long term partner?

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm in two marriages, man.

[Host]

Delightful. Which one do you do for what? Who does what when?

[Guest]

Who does what when? Yeah, music. Music and life, innit? Music, life, golf, sitting on benches, chatting to strangers. All the joys of the magic of existence.

[Host]

Do they either get jealous of the other partner?

[Guest]

I mean, there's one. I've been with my life partner for 35 years and my music partner for 25 years.

[Host]

Oh, so does your partner get on with your music partner?

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They're both football supporters, so they'd like talking football.

[Host]

What team?

[Guest]

One's Burnley and one's Sheffield United.

[Host]

How do you feel about Burnley's defensive record this season?

[Guest]

Well, if I was remotely interested in it, I think it was very good.

[Host]

Okay, so we've got onto. So you've done some music with your composing part? Always. Does it sometimes get a bit of a drag? You've always got to do stuff with someone else. Can you operate alone?

[Guest]

Yeah, can operate. Well, probably not so much these days with the old neural issue.

[Host]

Yes.

[Guest]

Slows me down.

[Host]

Yeah. What is this near issue? Can you say Parkinson's? So how long have you.

[Guest]

I've been diagnosed about two and a half years, but I've definitely been sort of feeling the effects of it for a good few years.

[Host]

Yeah. Obvious question, but like kind of. Well, I should actually start by saying my father is dead, but had Parkinson's for the last 10 years of his life.

[Guest]

So you have some experience.

[Host]

So I have quite a lot of experience of seeing someone with it, yeah. How have you. Has anything surprised you about it? You know, I'm guessing when you're diagnosed you felt something.

[Guest]

Yeah, that's like the movie moment. Yeah, that's like the.

[Host]

What yeah. Is that what you said?

[Guest]

Something like that? Probably.

[Host]

What, what?

[Guest]

Has anything surprised me? Well, basically my understanding of life from a spiritual perspective is incredibly useful and helped me to understand and absorb the diagnosis. But then what surprises you is that if you sort of open enough, you can see a sort of teaching in it, some lessons that are useful to learn within it. Yeah, like everything, you know, that, you know, I believe that to be true of everything, but still to be able to be diagnosed with something like that and go, okay, well, what is there to learn from this then? That feels empowering, I suppose.

[Host]

And what have you learned?

[Guest]

It's been an extreme experience to draw from in relation to the teachings that I try to understand. You know, fundamentally, however you feel about what's happening to you, is your mind churning over a belief system that you have, like, we all have sort of coloured glasses on the way that we see the world, and if you can start to see it in a different way, you take those glasses off. Instead of seeing what you believe something should be, you see the reality of what it is. And Parkinson's has helped us speed that up a bit.

[Host]

Is there any of it that you could say has been a blessing? Any part of it? I often think with these things, like, you know, it's so obvious to go, yeah, of course this is, this is a, you know, a poorer form of life, etc, etc, but if anything you think is that, you know, actually this has made this better, this better for some reason.

[Guest]

I mean, I just think re what I just said. You know, to me, the time that we get on this planet is about learning to understand something, about what our true nature is, not what our constructed nature is. You know, the neurologists say that by the time you're six or seven, your personality is formed. Well, personality being formed to me means your programming, your conditioning, the way that you would react in any given situation, which is useful because obviously it teaches you how to interact with other humans and what society requires of you and all that. But the teachings that I try and understand also say that that is a limitation and an illusion. And, you know, your true nature is something broader and more connected than this kind of finite individual that you believe yourself to be. So you're basically saying that you're not who you think you are because the person that you think you are is what's causing you to suffer. You know, I need this, I need to be loved in this way, I need to have relationships in that way, and all the complications of life. So to me, seems to be down to this conditioned belief system. And once we start to unpick that and uncover that sort of magical things start to happen.

[Host]

So my dad, he was a very physical person. He was a farmer first and foremost. It was a bit of a crushing thing for him to develop it because he was so fit and he was so active.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

But anyway, he always tried to find little comedy moments. And he always said it often when he was at the post office and he couldn't get his wallet out of his pocket or his jacket pocket, he would have to go up someone and say, look, I can't, I can't. Could he reach in? I could have a fondle around and grab my. Grabbed my wallet. And he always quite enjoyed that moment of kind of seeing how people did it and kind of tentatively trying to grab the wallet. Have you had any of those moments yet, or do you enjoy seeing how other people respond?

[Guest]

I can't think of anything sort of specific right now, but one thing I will say is related to your father's experience there is that you've got to be able to ask for help.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Like even putting this rucksack on, sometimes I just can't get my arm through.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

You know, I'm not. I'm not a proud kind of person like that, you know, if I need help, I'm happy to ask.

[Host]

Shout it out.

[Guest]

I'm happy to ask for it. I'm happy to receive it.

[Host]

What do you wish? I'll ask. Well, not to over egg the Parkinson's here. I'll ask you one more question about it and we'll fly to different matters.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Host]

But what do you wish people knew about it that they don't?

[Guest]

You know, what people? People are pretty. You know, we've got Google these days, haven't we?

[Host]

We do have it.

[Guest]

You tell people something that's wrong with you, and the next thing, next time you see them, they know everything about it. I wish that the medical establishment, I wish they were allowed to embrace different possibilities more quickly. You know, there's a lot of interesting stuff out there. You know, quick story about this guy at Stanford University and, you know, they had him off his medication and off his medication. The guy could barely walk. He does this, wears these gloves for three months, and then three months after that, he runs the Boston Marathon.

[Host]

Say, these gloves. Not any gloves.

[Guest]

No. The specific gloves that this guy called Peter Tass at Stanford University has developed. And you just think, why can't I get those gloves? Get with the bloody gloves?

[Host]

What's in them? Do we know?

[Guest]

I think It's a frequency thing in the fingertips, and they say the fingertips are most related to this part of the brain, this substantia nigra, that where the dopamine defects originate, and somehow it stimulates that. And I wish that was all a little bit more accessible to everyone. Get someone to invest. I mean, this guy, funnily enough. This guy who ran the marathon, he owns that company, Tupperware. Remember that when we were kids and your mum used to like Tupperware?

[Host]

Tupperware. Tupperware.

[Guest]

Plastic car. That's the guy.

[Host]

So he's gotta have some dosh there.

[Guest]

He's gotta have some dosh.

[Host]

Some proper dosh. Who doesn't have dosh?

[Guest]

Invest your Tupperware money in some gloves, mate, and get some sent over to Harleston. I hope you're listening to this.

[Host]

You never know.

[Guest]

You never know.

[Host]

Okay, we've sorted Parkinson's out. We've done it.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Completed it.

[Guest]

It's gone. It's finished.

[Host]

Absolutely completed. What. What kind of dad are you?

[Guest]

Well, I got a text from my son quite recently.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And I think he was out quite late and quite high with his pals. And he said, I know I've called you a shit dad in the past, but I just wanted to let you know that I love you and I think you're great. And my first thought was, I don't remember being a shit dad. But the Soviet general context of that text was, you've done all right.

[Host]

Are you kind of a parent who would ever interfere with anything and say, look, you sure you want to be doing this, or you just let them go on with it?

[Guest]

Well, I think we're open enough to be able to converse about things. I express my perspective that we've discussed a little bit in this conversation. And, you know, it's usually met with a little bit of derision.

[Host]

What do they say?

[Guest]

Well, my son says, you think you're fucking Guru Nanak? Stop washing that shit. You think he's fucking Guru Nanak? I like to think that I'm pretty considered. I want them to know that I'm there for them if they need me.

[Host]

Can you think of a time you mess it up?

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah. I was wrestling with my son, and he just outmaneuvered me, and he had me in, like, a lock. And he wrestles with his pals. He has done for years.

[Host]

Oh, so he's a pro, basically.

[Guest]

Yeah, exactly. And I was saying, kafme are hurting me. And he said, just call time out. And it was funny. My ego wouldn't allow me to call time out. And then I just started getting angrier and angrier and it's just snowballing down the hill and it's getting out of control and then you just explode. And that kind of happened and that wasn't it. That wasn't good.

[Host]

What did the explosion look like?

[Guest]

Just verbal. Just verbal. And a bit physical as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's kind of weird.

[Host]

How old was?

[Guest]

I can't remember. It wasn't that long ago to be fair. Just a few years ago. But you know, I could imagine that being one moment that he would look back on me and think maybe that's.

[Host]

When you were shit for the famous you from the text.

[Guest]

You got it, man. You got it right there.

[Host]

Do you, do you dream about being a grandparent?

[Guest]

I have nightmares about being a grandparents.

[Host]

Do you? Actually?

[Guest]

No, not really. But you know, I want a bit of time before that happens. Being a parent is exhausting, man.

[Host]

It is, isn't it? Tell me about it.

[Guest]

You know, it's minimum 18 years, but essentially a whole lifetime, relentless. Of putting yourself to one side if you can. And you know, we've all got these egos, which makes that a little bit difficult. But I would like five minutes off before the grandkids came. And also I'm a bit nervous about grandkids because I don't think I'll be able to be left alone with them.

[Host]

What do you mean? We might start your wrestling.

[Guest]

Well, Parkinson's is a bit like fucking drop the kid and all that, innit? I mean, you know, you really don't want to do that.

[Host]

Sounds like you've got a ready made excuse. Perfect.

[Guest]

It's all lined up now you're talking, brother.

[Host]

I mean, can you imagine the type of grandparent you'd be?

[Guest]

It's hard to say because I don't know where I'm going to be at physically and mentally. I mean, I know that I'd. I know for sure my wife's going to be an amazing grandmother in the same way that I knew she'd be an amazing mother.

[Host]

My role, it's a wild card.

[Guest]

It's a maverick. Bit of a wild card again there when you need, I'm there when you need. If I'm not, you know, if you don't need, I'm not there. But if you need, I'm there.

[Host]

That's about as much as that on the business card.

[Guest]

It's about as much as I can say right now. It's on my T shirt.

[Host]

What were your Grandparents, like my family.

[Guest]

And my dad's side. Here come the children, Here come the kids. Mate, they're gonna drown us out.

[Host]

Perfect.

[Guest]

My grandparents on my dad's side were.

[Host]

A bit repressed, bit depressed.

[Guest]

Repressed? Repressed, yeah, Religiously repressed. And my grandparents on my mum's side. My granddad died quite young. My grandma lived till she was 94 and she was even in her 80s. She'd be the kind of woman that would go down to get a pint of milk and then see the bus to the local seaside town, pull up and just get on it and go wherever it went. Live in St. Anne's or Southport or wherever, you know. She was very adventurous.

[Host]

Oh, amazing. Well, she just let the bus comes and she's like, I'm just gonna go.

[Guest]

Well, she's gone out for a pint of milk and then she's seen the bus pull up and she's checked herself out and went, yeah, I'm decent. You know, she's jumped on the bus and gone to. Gone to Blackpool or whatever, you know what I mean? Pretty cool.

[Host]

Wonder what happened to the milk at that point.

[Guest]

To lunch in it.

[Host]

Oh, good. Good honor. What happened to the grandfather that died young?

[Guest]

Stroke.

[Host]

Oh.

[Guest]

I think I was like 10 or 11.

[Host]

Yeah. Was that your first funeral?

[Guest]

You know what? They didn't let us go. Oh, that's how unsophisticated they are.

[Host]

Didn't let you go?

[Guest]

No.

[Host]

Well, they were trying to.

[Guest]

They're trying to protect you, aren't they?

[Host]

Just from the thought of death.

[Guest]

Stupid, right?

[Host]

That's crazy. Yeah.

[Guest]

We just can't talk about it. In our society, we can't talk about the inevitable. It's crazy.

[Host]

Where are you going to get your ashes?

[Guest]

Maybe in this park. I spent a lot of time in this park.

[Host]

Yeah. Any particular bit of it?

[Guest]

I don't care, man. Just scare into the wind. Who cares?

[Host]

Would you like to put a bit in each corner, maybe?

[Guest]

I don't know, I just think, get on the top of the hill and wait for a gust of wind and just waft them. Yeah, let them go. It's nothing anyway. It's just a sensing, perceiving machine, you know, it's not. It's not. Like I said earlier, I don't believe it's who we truly are. All this stuff that we get caught up in and our needs and, you know, these rich dudes who are trying to find the elixir of life to live forever. I mean, I can't think of anything worse, can you?

[Host]

Good point. Yeah. If you've got a kind of age you'd like to get to.

[Guest]

Honestly, if I just forget about all the things that I think I want and I am, again, why would you care? You know, you hear all this thing, I want to walk my daughter down the aisle and all. And it's just like, dude, you either get to do it or you don't. Maybe that sounds a bit cold, but honestly, the freedom in this perspective is a freedom that you won't find by earning enough money or having the right relationship or having the right car or having the big house.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

It's a different kind of freedom.

[Host]

Where did you grow up? Because obviously you don't.

[Guest]

You don't see it in the South.

[Host]

Yeah, that's it. Classic. Right up there.

[Guest]

Right up there, mate.

[Host]

Right up there.

[Guest]

Hey there.

[Host]

Another friend of yours? You've got a lot of friends around these parts. Yeah, Every second one knows you.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Can you say anything about that person?

[Guest]

I don't really know her very well. I know how to say a lot. Well enough.

[Host]

A little nod.

[Guest]

I know. I know how to say a lot.

[Host]

Can you tell me anything about her? I don't say the name of it.

[Guest]

You know what? I think she might be a casting agent. There's a lot of film boss around.

[Host]

I should have dressed up.

[Guest]

There's a lot. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Could have been something. I could have been. Could have been something.

[Guest]

Man on a bench.

[Host]

Could have been a star.

[Guest]

You need a guy on a bench. You look like the perfect guy.

[Host]

I don't even know if I look like someone who should be on a bench. Really.

[Guest]

Oh, you do.

[Host]

That's good. I'm really pleased to hear that. So I definitely could get the role. Yeah. So we say north. Let's go back to childhood. Let's pick an age. Eight.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Where you grew up.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

What's the kind of core childhood memory for you?

[Guest]

It's kind of idyllic. Really.

[Host]

Yeah. Take me through it.

[Guest]

What was it like riding bikes, being out all day long, Long summer holidays, food on the table, loving the family, building sites, Building sites, building, you know, like they were building new houses all the time because it was all new build areas. So you could fuck around and make ramps for your BMXs and. Or go down to the stream and play by the stream, or go into the woods and go and play in the woods and no one was worried that you didn't come home all day. And it's totally different.

[Host]

Yeah. If you could think of one kind of childhood incident for good or for bad that springs to mind. Did anything come?

[Guest]

My favourite memory of being a kid was building ramps for our BMXs and building them as high as you could possibly go until one of you fell off, which I did one time and smashed my. Absolutely face planted the other side of the ramp.

[Host]

How high are we talking?

[Guest]

You know, you'd get to like, what's that three and a half foot, four foot high on a downhill path.

[Host]

What would you use to build the ramps?

[Guest]

Whatever you get off the building sites, you know, cement boards, bricks. Pile it up and fucking fly, baby.

[Host]

Did they ever mind on the building site about this?

[Guest]

I don't ever remember seeing a fucking builder the whole time.

[Host]

What are they up to?

[Guest]

Maybe we only went on them on the weekend, I don't know. But yeah, when you think of, when you think like, my music partner is always saying how insane the world is these days and I like to reserve judgment a little bit and just accept life for what it is. But when you're having discussions like this and you're comparing my upbringing to like your 16 year olds or a 40 or a 12 year old's upbringing down here, it's. It's not the same.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

You know, what they have to contend with is way more intense than what we have to contend with, I think.

[Host]

Do you think every generation there has of course said, you know, you know, kids these days have got this, this and this. There's always kind of something. Isn't there such a thing?

[Guest]

No. I mean, they say that back in Greek civilization you've got the elders going. Kids these days saying the same things two, 3,000 years ago. You know, whatever generation you live in, you think it's the most insane generation. That's. If you're getting bombed out in the war or whatever happened in any generation of the last however many thousand years, you'll have people going, it's not the same as it was when I was a kid. These are the recurring conversations. So I don't put much stock in it because everyone's just having a different experience. And also these teachings that I keep talking about say that everything that you have is perfect for what you need to learn. Whether that's Parkinson's or BMX ramps or TikTok or whatever or crazy American presidents or whatever's going on. That's what you as an individual and your society needs to learn about your true nature.

[Host]

How do you, how do you get on with a mobile phone? What's your kind of relationship with yours?

[Guest]

I'm not a doom scroller. I don't have any social media.

[Host]

Do you have any kind of odd Internet interests? I said, do you find yourself, if you were to watch it, like an.

[Guest]

Only fans page.

[Host]

For Parkinson's? Sexy Parkers. Sexy Parkinson. You could be the first.

[Guest]

There's a fucking niche for everything.

[Host]

There is. There really is, because I've got into the train for no reason at all, just quite into train enthusiasts. The algorithm picked that up and I quite like people just getting excited about trains.

[Guest]

Well, you get excited about benches, so, you know, it's a similar thing. I can see why you'd be into that.

[Host]

So true. I mean, are you kind of like.

[Guest]

I'm getting pestered and not that much. Someone. Someone wants someone lost.

[Host]

Who's it going to be? Do you want me to help you out?

[Guest]

It'll be one of my marriage partners. I'm just gonna send her a text.

[Host]

Go for it. So it is the marriage partner.

[Guest]

It's the life partner, yeah.

[Host]

Is texting tricky with Parkinson's?

[Guest]

Can be. Sorry about this.

[Host]

No, not at all. At all.

[Guest]

Feels a bit naughty. Sat down here talking to you. This is the time where I really should be getting on with my life.

[Host]

Oh, God, that is naughty, isn't it?

[Guest]

I quite like it.

[Host]

Oh, that's good. Good. Excellent. What's your wife saying, out of interest?

[Guest]

Where the fuck are you?

[Host]

What the hell are you doing? Tell us about the. Your wife partner, then.

[Guest]

All I can say is she's incredible.

[Host]

You're a huge fan on every level. Oh, it's fantastic. Is there any. I mean, there's got to be something there. That's annoying, surely. Come and hit me with something annoying.

[Guest]

She's got to be something. It's annoying that she's so amazing.

[Host]

Why does she choose you?

[Guest]

I ask myself that every day. I'm sure she does now I've got Parkinson's.

[Host]

Yeah. How's she been with it all?

[Guest]

Great. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Host]

Any. Is anything in it for her? Not really. A bit more at home. Bit more.

[Guest]

Maybe I'm home a little bit more.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

But I'm not. That's not necessarily a bonus, is it?

[Host]

Was it always a smooth. It's always been smooth. No.

[Guest]

Relationships are difficult, aren't they? They're very complicated, you know, if you're not prepared to look at yourself and grow, you know. My first experience of really looking at myself was going to therapy years ago and it was really useful and it's led, like I said now, down to this definitely more subtle and specific sort of teaching that I've arrived At.

[Host]

Have you got a good meeting story, you and your lady?

[Guest]

We met at the Lancashire Students Concert band in the saxophone section.

[Host]

Fantastic.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

So both saxophonists?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

What do they say about saxophonists?

[Guest]

Fucking cool. The coolest instrument.

[Host]

What? And you just looked across. What was the vibe?

[Guest]

I think she might have asked me out and I think I said no.

[Host]

Oh, okay.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

Why'd you do that?

[Guest]

I think I was more interested in the older girls in the. In the orchestra. But I quickly came to realize the error of my ways.

[Host]

Do you remember that first time alone together?

[Guest]

It's a bit personal, innit? You.

[Host]

You went more bedroomy. I was thinking more datey. But I mean date.

[Guest]

No.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah. Getting the bus from my town to her town and meeting her. Get. Meeting her at the bus stop and getting this. The butterflies in the stomach. But I knew how to.

[Host]

Do you have some milk with you?

[Guest]

I knew how to get off. No, I didn't. I didn't. I left that to my grandma.

[Host]

Do you remember your first kiss?

[Guest]

I'm afraid not. Memory's not. I'm not big on memory.

[Host]

What do you mean you're not big? As in you're not a very good one. That sounded like you weren't a fan of it.

[Guest]

No, no, but. No, but what I was gonna say was that memory's a part of this belief system. So, you know, I'm not saying that memories aren't useful occasionally, but they also sort of.

[Host]

They get in the way.

[Guest]

They reinforce this sense of separateness. This is what happens to me and I want to repeat it.

[Host]

It's quite handy for you. Then you can say it's just part of your belief system. Not exactly.

[Guest]

And I can just let it all go.

[Host]

Surely wouldn't you like to remember this first kiss? Surely can have it.

[Guest]

I've had hundreds of them since then. I can pick any one of them that I can remember, which is not many.

[Host]

Can you remember any?

[Guest]

Well, I'm sure I can remember some. But what's more important than right now?

[Host]

Very true. Can I ask you a very personal question?

[Guest]

I thought that last one was quite personal, but go on.

[Host]

Is Parkinson effect love making at all?

[Guest]

In a positive way? Weirdly enough. I don't know if it's the Parkinson's or the medication, but that's a bonus.

[Host]

You didn't mention that before.

[Guest]

Well, you know, I don't want to be uncouth or crude, but again, what's.

[Host]

Uncouth about sex is how well we're all here.

[Guest]

No, true. Yeah, yeah. No, Fair enough.

[Host]

Like the funeral stuff.

[Guest]

Yeah. No, fair enough.

[Host]

It's like that inevitability.

[Guest]

Yeah, you're absolutely right. Yeah. My love life is flourishing.

[Host]

Really. Oh, fantastic.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Host]

They don't mention that, do they, on the posters.

[Guest]

I don't know whether it's the same for everyone. Although, actually, what they did say with this medication is you could well be prone to gambling.

[Host]

Interesting.

[Guest]

Hyper sexualized.

[Host]

Wow.

[Guest]

To the point where you would comment on women's physicality.

[Host]

Wow. But so far you haven't done any of that.

[Guest]

No, thankfully, that's not affecting me.

[Host]

You said yes to this, which could be gambling in a way. Yeah.

[Guest]

I mean, you know, you just seem like a nice guy, so I thought I'd go for it.

[Host]

So what, you just have. You walked past the bookies and be like, oh, yeah, go on.

[Guest]

No, it hasn't happened to me. But, you know. So apparently, like, people have lost hundreds of thousands. Yeah.

[Host]

So if you saw someone hot at the bookies, you really would be in trouble.

[Guest]

You're really in fucking big trouble, mate.

[Host]

Do you ever go to the bookies?

[Guest]

I went once recently with my music partner, who's historically been a fan of the bookies, and I'd never been in one in my life.

[Host]

Love it. So you thought I'd have a go?

[Guest]

I didn't even have a go. I just observed.

[Host]

Oh, he didn't have a go. Is that in case he just started to get hurt?

[Guest]

No, no, seriously, zero interest. I genuinely didn't. I just watched him put a bet and watched him lose and thought, yeah, that's another fucking stupid thing, innit? We ruined millions of existences. I mean, when you see. When you see those gambling apps and all that, you just think some cunt is making loads of money out of people's inability to control their behavior. It's just like. That is rotten, man.

[Host]

Yeah. So what did you observe other than that in the booking?

[Guest]

The complete fucking uselessness of it all.

[Host]

Yeah. Did you say that out loud?

[Guest]

No, because that's mean. And yeah, you know, I'm not a religious person, but I do like certain religious speakers from history. And, you know, one of Jesus, good lines was, hate the sin, not the sinner.

[Host]

You know, so don't hate the player, hate the game.

[Guest]

Exactly. So we might have to leave it there. I'm getting pestered.

[Host]

The last question I ask is always, what are you gonna do next today? Yeah.

[Guest]

Or just generally just keep doing what I'm doing. Go to the studio, make music, go home, hang out with my wife, see my kids, see my friends. Come see the park, walk the dog, go to golf, play table tennis.

[Host]

Very good for the brain. Table, isn't it?

[Guest]

Very good for the brain. Do my studies, whatever you want to call it and learn, learn, learn. Until I drop dead.

[Host]

Perfect. Can you think of a good way we can end this?

[Guest]

I thought that was quite good. I could see that being the last line of the podcast. Learn, learn learn till I drop dead. That was anonymous from Poetry Heartbench Somewhere in London.

[Poet]

I have seen a thousand suns but only loved a few Made my peace with mysteries and mornings in the doom his senses fade like phantoms I just want to to feel the same Cuz if I don't what remains what remains what remains. Take it off so you can sing it up so you it up Take it out so you can see you can see.