EPISODE 31: I Never Cherished Myself

Summary

Strangers on a Bench - Episode 31: "I Never Cherished Myself"

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Release Date: April 14, 2025

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In Episode 31 of Strangers on a Bench, Tom Rosenthal engages in a heartfelt and introspective conversation with an anonymous guest. The episode delves deep into themes of self-worth, personal growth, mental health, spirituality, and the profound impact of loss. Through candid dialogue, the guest shares their journey of self-discovery and resilience, offering listeners both vulnerability and inspiration.

Opening the Conversation

Tom begins by introducing his unique approach to podcasting—sitting next to strangers in London’s parks to uncover the untold stories of everyday individuals. He approaches the guest with a simple yet profound question:

Tom (00:04): "Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that?"

The guest responds thoughtfully, emphasizing the value of each day:

Guest (00:49): "To be honest, I don't have a particular favorite day. Every day is a great day, even if it isn't. But it is. Do you know what I mean?"

A Day in the Life

Tom encourages the guest to describe their perfect day, unraveling the layers of their daily routine and passions:

Guest (01:09): "Well, I'm a Buddhist. I practice chant nam myoho renge kyo. So I start my day with that, with my morning prayer... I love my work. I'm a hairdresser stylist, so I come in contact with lots of people."

The conversation highlights the guest’s dedication to their spiritual practice and their love for interacting with others through their profession. Their enthusiasm for making people laugh and the joy they derive from their work resonate deeply.

First Experiences and Reflections

Tom probes into the guest’s early experiences as a hairdresser, eliciting memories of their first haircut:

Guest (02:03): "I was only 16 at the time, and I thought, oh, she's a model... I never made any major mistakes, to be honest. I was always very cautious."

This anecdote underscores the guest’s cautious yet passionate approach to their craft, revealing a blend of youthful apprehension and the fulfillment they find in their career.

Compassion and Personal Boundaries

The dialogue shifts to the guest’s compassionate nature and how they navigate interactions with others:

Guest (03:05): "I think what makes us richer as people is being around other people. I have a lot of compassion. When someone opens up to me, I open up to them too..."

However, the guest also discusses setting boundaries when faced with unkindness:

Guest (03:39): "If someone's rude to me, on the other hand, for no reason, that brings out a different side in me... I'm gonna nip that in the bud."

This balance between empathy and self-respect illustrates the guest’s emotional intelligence and personal growth.

Spirituality and Supernatural Experiences

A poignant moment arises when the guest recounts a supernatural experience with a child whose knowledge surpassed natural means:

Guest (04:15): "I remember cutting a child's hair... She started to talk about things that she knew about me and I'd never met her before... She gets it from her nan. She's got like a little gift there."

This revelation ties into the guest’s Buddhist beliefs and their connection to their late mother, adding depth to their spiritual perspective.

Tribute to Their Mother

The guest honors their late mother, sharing memories that highlight her strength and influence:

Guest (06:08): "My mum was wonderful... She was a wonderful, strong, courageous woman... She loved dancing parties."

Their mother's journey from a strict Roman Catholic upbringing to embracing Buddhism profoundly impacted the guest’s life and spiritual practices.

Battling Depression and Embracing Self-Care

A raw and vulnerable segment of the conversation addresses the guest’s struggle with depression:

Guest (09:20): "I suffer with depression... chanting definitely helps lift your life state."

They candidly discuss the paralyzing effects of depression and the importance of self-compassion, encouraging listeners to seek help and be kinder to themselves.

Guest (13:02): "For me, I suppose depression at times has felt paralyzing physically. It's not a thing you can shake off... It feels like a dark cloud coming over."

Relationships and Personal Growth

The guest reflects on past relationships, emphasizing the importance of self-worth and personal happiness:

Guest (16:11): "I've had a couple of long-term relationships... I never cherished myself enough really."

Their decision to step away from relationships that no longer served them marks a significant step towards self-empowerment and independence.

Coping with Loss

A deeply emotional part of the episode explores the guest’s experience caring for their mother during her battle with Alzheimer's:

Guest (17:50): "It's very, very painful. And knowing you're on a road where it's never going to improve."

They discuss the challenges of witnessing a loved one’s decline and the strength required to provide care, highlighting the enduring bond and cherished memories.

Finding Joy and Purpose

Amidst the struggles, the guest finds moments of joy in laughter and connections with loved ones:

Guest (19:56): "It's about being with my loved ones. Laughing."

They also share personal interests, such as their love for animals and crystals, which serve as sources of comfort and positivity.

Looking Forward: Embracing New Beginnings

In contemplating the future, the guest acknowledges their evolving sense of self and the importance of consistency in personal growth:

Guest (21:57): "Consistency is difficult as human beings. But if we were all consistent all the time, can you imagine the greatness we'd achieve."

They express a desire to join a volleyball team, symbolizing their readiness to embrace new challenges and continue their journey of self-improvement.

Closing Reflections

As the conversation winds down, the guest shares plans to spend time with loved ones, embodying their commitment to meaningful relationships and personal happiness:

Guest (29:48): "I'm going to go and see her... I'll spend the evening with them, probably have some dinner and then... rest of life."

The episode concludes on a note of optimism and resilience, with the guest expressing gratitude for the experience and the connections they've forged.

Notable Quotes

• Guest on Self-Compassion:

  "It's okay to not be okay at times, you know, and to be kinder, we must be kinder to ourselves." (28:43)

• Guest on Spiritual Empowerment:

  "Buddhism works, because it's taking responsibility for yourself. It's more empowering." (20:55)

• Guest on Overcoming Depression:

  "Using the mind in the right way, you can about near enough tricking the mind." (09:51)

Conclusion

Episode 31 of Strangers on a Bench offers a profound exploration of an individual’s journey through adversity, spirituality, and self-discovery. The guest’s openness about their struggles with depression, the loss of their mother, and their path towards self-cherishing provides listeners with a relatable and inspiring narrative. Through Tom Rosenthal’s empathetic interviewing, the episode underscores the universal themes of human connection, resilience, and the ongoing pursuit of personal well-being.

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Transcript

[Host]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? What is your favorite day of the week?

[Interviewee]

To be honest, I don't have a particular favourite day. Every day is a great day, even if it isn't. But it is. Do you know what I mean?

[Host]

I do know what you mean. I think it's a really lovely answer. Okay, let's give any random great day then. But take me from waking up to going to bed. What happens in that great day for you?

[Interviewee]

Well, I'm a Buddhist. I practice chant nam myoho renge kyo. So I start my day with that, with my morning prayer. And on a difficult day, I might sometimes miss that because it does take motivation for yourself because you know, it's good for you to do. And sometimes those things are the hardest things to do when it's great for you. But that's how I like to start my day. I love my work. I'm a hairdresser stylist, so I come in contact with lots of people. I love people so that it would have that in it. It would have my wonderful, gorgeous friends, my cat, always animals. If animals are there, that's me. I'm in my element and I love to make jokes. Not. Not consciously, but, you know, when I'm around people, they tend to laugh a lot.

[Host]

Yeah, that's great. Well, that's magic, isn't it?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, it is. It really.

[Host]

So your perfect day involves hairdressing?

[Interviewee]

Well, well, yeah. I mean, not people. Yeah, people.

[Host]

Do you remember the first haircut you ever did?

[Interviewee]

I do. What was it? I was in a salon at the time, training, and it was a. What you call. They would say, it's a model. We've got a model here for you. I was only 16 at the time, and I thought, oh, she's a model.

[Host]

It's Kate Moss.

[Interviewee]

I was like, oh, she doesn't look like one. I don't mean that badly. But. So a model is someone who would come in, paid much less for that haircut. And, yeah, that was cool. I never made no major mistakes, to be honest. I was always very cautious.

[Host]

You weren't nervous?

[Interviewee]

Of course I was nervous. But you have someone talking you through anything you're not certain of, then they guide you along. So there was no major mishaps, thankfully.

[Host]

Do you remember the feeling at the End of that haircut?

[Interviewee]

Yes. I wanted her out.

[Host]

Is that because you couldn't bear to look at the haircut?

[Interviewee]

No.

[Host]

Or you just didn't like her?

[Interviewee]

No. I suppose being under pressure.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

I achieved what I had to do, but it was time for it to go.

[Host]

I mean, obviously, people must tell you so many things about their lives.

[Interviewee]

They do, and it's wonderful.

[Host]

Do you feel like it all soaks into you?

[Interviewee]

I think what makes us richer as people is being around other people. I have a lot of compassion. When someone opens up to me, I open up to them too, because you can compare your experiences and that's a wonderful thing. If someone's rude to me, on the other hand, for no reason, that brings out a different side in me because I'm always polite and nice until I sense that you're being funny with me. So I have to be more assertive then and let you know I know that you are not being so kind right now and I'm gonna nip that in the bud.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

It might only done it a couple of times, but it did work. I remember going into a shop one day and the person behind the counter was so miserable and rude and I said I couldn't help it. I said, oh, have I done something to upset you? Which I knew I hadn't.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

And they said, no. And after that. That kind of very clever of you. Yeah. Because I'm not being rude to them. I'm just letting. Just wondering what's wrong.

[Host]

Yeah. I really like that.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Host]

Good tattoo. Can you think of something that's been revealed to you during a haircut you've just been amazed by. I don't know. Do you know it's something you've kind of socked you in your tracks.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. Something that springs to mind may sound a bit unusual to you, but I remember cutting a child's hair. She was about 7 or 8 years old, and she started to talk about things that she knew about me and I'd never met her before. And I was quite aware, because I do believe in. Not super well, I do believe in supernatural, but I also believe in. I lost my mum last year and I've had a few signs from my mum to show me that she's still around. And for years, I've always believed in this thing that when someone passes, this is just an outer shell and that energy still is around us. And this little girl was saying a few things. Never met her before. And the mum looked at me and she said, she gets it from her nan. She's got like a little gift there. A couple of things she shouldn't have known, but it was fine. I tried not to look too surprised in front of the child, do you know what I mean? Because she's just doing something natural to her. There's been. Many people are wonderful. They really are wonderful. I have someone that I go to, I cut her hair at home and she's like a lady in her early 70s, but she's at a stage where she's always initially miserable and I understand her. It's a defense kind of mechanism with her. So when I've woke up and I'm not feeling so great, as I said, I lost my mum and I'm still going through those feelings. But when I'm heading down the road to her house, I now say, she's going to be in a great mood. She's going to be in a great mood. She's going to be in a great mood. So she opens the door, has a face like she's just chewed a wasp and then I go in and within five minutes, totally cool. I've got to take the lead in that one because I'm going to her house.

[Host]

That's a very intimate thing to do.

[Interviewee]

It is, yes.

[Host]

May I ask you about your mum?

[Interviewee]

Sure.

[Host]

What was she like?

[Interviewee]

She was wonderful. She was a wonderful, strong, courageous woman. And I don't think till you lose someone you love so much like that, till they pass, their greatness is more. It's more apparent.

[Host]

When you think about her. What do you picture her?

[Interviewee]

Dancing. She loved music. My mum was a single parent and I was very blessed to grow up in a household where, you know, my mum worked full time. She cooked everything from scratch and she loved dancing parties. She. Yeah, she was a wonderful woman.

[Host]

Is your. You mentioned your chanting in the morning. Has this come recently in relation to those things that you've been through? That.

[Interviewee]

No. My mum started practicing Buddhism when I was 10.

[Host]

Amazing. Yeah, I know why she started.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. For many years she'd been Roman Catholic and me, my brother, had a very strict Roman Catholic upbringing. And back in the day, the church always encouraged you to stay in marriages that were violent and, you know, abusive. And she did for many years. And I think when she managed to divorce him and get out of that, she realised that that wasn't for her. And I agree. And that's. With no disrespect, I say that. Yeah. So she was working somewhere. A friend introduced her to it and it's been in my life for a long time. And When I was like 17, 18, 19, on the odd occasion, she was always trying to get me to chant, chant about this. And I was like, I don't want to hear chanting. I want your advice. She was like, go chant about. And it did work. That was the thing. It did. But I wasn't ready to commit at all to anything, like, in that sense. But as I got older, mid-30s, I was like, I need something.

[Host]

What was the moment? You have that reality.

[Interviewee]

There were a good few of them, wasn't just one.

[Host]

Can you take me through any of them?

[Interviewee]

Let me think. I was at a very low ebb. Yeah, I was very low ebb. And I recommend.

[Host]

Any reason?

[Interviewee]

Many reasons.

[Host]

Any you'd like to tell me?

[Interviewee]

They stem from young. They. They stem. Yeah, they stem from young. And. How can I put this? I've always been someone that's been great at helping others for myself, that's always been a harder thing to do. It had always felt like a block. I don't know if that makes sense. So when I thought, right, I need something because nothing's shifting here. I've got all these wonderful people in my life, all these wonderful opportunities, and I'm stunting myself. So I started to chant and it just opened up many things. Energy is everything. I do believe in visualization. I do believe if you consistently say to yourself something, I am great, I am wonderful, or I have an abundance of everything I need, or write it down, make it solid, it works. It really does work. Same as if you wake up in the morning, you say, I'm going to have the worst day today. You're going to have the worst day today because you're going to see everything negative. And my glass has always been half full rather than half empty.

[Host]

That's so great. And when you kind of discovered chanting, you know, was that the kind of the end of the. Of the low eps?

[Interviewee]

You know, I suffer with depression and I'm not embarrassed to say yeah, because things I've experienced in my childhood and it's apparent, that's why. And I'm not embarrassed about that. So I deal with that because I've had years of it. I know what it's about. So chanting definitely helps lift your life state. Using the mind in the right way, you can about near enough tricking the mind.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

No, no, please.

[Host]

Oh, no. I was gonna say, what else helps you when you're in that kind of zone?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, I mean, not that it's always accessible, but animals, their energy about them is always uplifting, unless it's a rabid dog chasing you.

[Host]

That could be uplifting too. Yeah, exactly. Whole new level. Yeah, exactly, exactly. Maybe you should try it out.

[Interviewee]

That'd be it.

[Host]

What's the most uplifting animal, do you reckon?

[Interviewee]

I don't know, you know, because every. Every dog I see is the best one I've ever seen. So can I ask. Tell me, can I ask.

[Host]

When you do have. How should I aware this, you know, when you. When you have. Would you call it an episode? Would you call it.

[Interviewee]

No, it's not an episode.

[Host]

What would you call it?

[Interviewee]

A low moment, I suppose.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

Just a low moment. I tend to shut myself off a.

[Host]

Little bit from everyone else.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. Not for long. I feel when my energy's off, but I also recognise if I don't change up the energy, then it won't move. And then I know for a fact when I move around and I shift and then everything shifts. Your whole environment shifts. The sun is right in your eyes.

[Host]

It's okay. Weirdly enough, when I talk to people, I bet you the sun does tend to follow me around.

[Interviewee]

Really?

[Host]

Yeah. I should have bought some kind of cap. I didn't think of that.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Host]

I used to use my hand instead. Or I just close my eyes.

[Interviewee]

That's a good idea, do that. It still comes.

[Host]

Is that weird? Is it weird to talk someone who's closed their eyes?

[Interviewee]

Not at all. Especially when there's a big sun in the sky.

[Host]

That's true. Although still it's quite bright.

[Interviewee]

That's what I'm saying. It will come through the eyelids. But sunglasses are a thing, aren't they?

[Host]

I'm just not a sunglasses guy, you know, some people are sunglasses.

[Interviewee]

I'm not a sunglasses. I feel very self conscious. Yeah. Oh, yes, yeah, same.

[Host]

I just don't think I'm the. I don't think I have the right face.

[Interviewee]

You can always find a pair of glasses for a certain face. Of course you can.

[Host]

Oh, really?

[Interviewee]

Yeah. You've got to believe that.

[Host]

You have to believe it.

[Interviewee]

You have to believe it.

[Host]

Even if it's not true. Just believe it and it will happen. I want to go get a pair of sunglasses after this.

[Interviewee]

It's true. But hats, I mean, I. I wasn't great with hats for years. Felt very conscious with that.

[Host]

When did you have your hat?

[Interviewee]

Breakthrough moment when it was bloody cold. When it was freezing. Yeah. I don't. Yeah. To be honest, hats. I'm not gonna lie. I don't want to big myself up.

[Host]

You're quite cool with that.

[Interviewee]

Not bad in a hat.

[Host]

Can you tell me?

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Host]

Depression. For people who are listening to this, there'll be loads who obviously completely empathize and there'll be lots who are like, I don't know what that feels like. Or I can't really. You know, I can't really. They might be like, well, everyone obviously has low moments, but obviously this is something beyond just feeling low, you know, briefly.

[Interviewee]

Sure.

[Host]

Can you tell me, can you try and describe it?

[Interviewee]

Sure. For me, I suppose depression at times has felt paralyzing physically. It's not a thing you can shake off. I suppose it feels like a dark cloud coming over.

[Host]

Is there anything that kind of painted it in?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, I don't think there is anything that really triggers it, but I don't know. I've always been hard on myself through my life. Very hard on myself.

[Host]

Why is that, do you think?

[Interviewee]

It's from childhood. And I've been very blessed that I've had the insight to get counseling and therapy because there are many people that live all their life and they die at 70, 80, and they are miserable and they don't know why, and they've made other people miserable and, you know, they've not had the insight to deal with that. So I think where you can try and encourage people to get help, you know, if they suffer with depression or whatever it is, you know, we're here. Not for us. I really, truly believe the experiences that have been the greatest in my life is when I've been giving. I'm not big on receiving. I'm not good at receiving compliments or whatever it is or gifts. I get embarrassed. I feel like I'm not owed it or due. You know what I mean? I don't feel I'm worthy of it. I'm getting better at that, though. So if you got a present, I've got a gift.

[Host]

I thought, I've searched around the back. I love it. You're not good at giving gifts. So what's. Is Christmas difficult for you?

[Interviewee]

Yes.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Host]

Oh, it is difficult.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. Not about getting gifts, is that what you mean?

[Host]

Yeah. Oh, it's just difficult. Anyway, sorry. So why is Christmas difficult once again.

[Interviewee]

Stemming from childhood again?

[Host]

Yeah. Oh, God, this childhood doesn't sound great.

[Interviewee]

That's all you're gonna know.

[Host]

Yeah, I don't want a privacy. I mean, obviously you've come back to it a few times. I mean, just. It feels like a knot.

[Interviewee]

Indeed. I mean, any. What I've experienced through my years of childhood, people, my close friends, people say to be where you're at now is a huge triumph. And even, you know, my therapist, she's wonderful. She said you are what I would call the most amazing survivor, you know. And you know, I have to say I've been so blessed to have people around me that love me, you know, for so many years. Even though I can be awkward, who can't be? But I stand up for justice where I can. Yeah, my mum was like that.

[Host]

Do you want a light or a heavy question?

[Interviewee]

I don't mind either.

[Host]

Either. Wonderful. Yeah. How have you got on given that you're Buddhist? No, clearly like a very giving person. I'm just wondering how that's affected your kind of romantic relationships in your life.

[Interviewee]

Interesting. I mean I've had a couple of long term relationships. One extremely happy one 13 years which I left.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

Just because I'd met him too young. From, from 18, 19 to 31, 32. I'd grown a lot within that group therapy and when I met him I was like frightened of everything. I was like, I didn't trust no one and he helped me trust again in people big time. Looking back, if I'd have met him later, that would have been, you know, the one I think, you know, he always had my back constantly. And also he was healthy, he did have his issues but he was mentally healthy. And after that met someone who wasn't. Okay, so just recently left a ten year relationship of. I left that because it wasn't good enough for me anymore. And yeah, I've always been someone that gives too much of everything. I never cherished myself enough really. So. Yeah, so now I'm happy to be not responsible or worried about anyone. It's a great place to be considering all of my life I've been in a relationship of some form.

[Host]

Yeah. You know what next for relationships, do you think?

[Interviewee]

No, no, just. No, no, no, no, no. Yeah, no, I think that's going to be off the list for a good while. You know, since losing my mum. My mum had Alzheimer's. She was sick for four years and.

[Host]

No, it's bleak, isn't it? I mean my father had Alzheimer's.

[Interviewee]

Did he? I'm so sorry.

[Host]

You know, it is that you know that to see a decline in someone.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Host]

I actually think it's kind of worse than them actually dying. You see what I mean is actually to see it in real time. Oh, so painful.

[Interviewee]

It's very, very painful. And knowing you're on a road where it's never going to improve.

[Host]

Yeah. And there's nothing, it's not like it's kind of. You can't hope for anything.

[Interviewee]

No.

[Host]

Hope doesn't get. It doesn't, you know.

[Interviewee]

Indeed. And. And I was the only family that was able to care. There was. There is no other family. So it was just me and my mum. She lived out of London at the time and I was traveling down and trying to. Yeah. And to get her assessed, I took four times, four assessments. And they're not easy to get, you know. And she first couple, she slipped through them. Yeah, she did.

[Host]

She passed the flying colours. How did she do it?

[Interviewee]

So my mum, she was at a stage where she was losing things and hiding things and you know, on the second assessment, she was sometimes not being able to find a way home.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

But yeah, first couple, she was very good at, you know, being funny, saying a few jokes and my mum was very witty.

[Host]

Must have been an odd feeling kind of wanting your mum to kind of fail. Do you know what I mean?

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Host]

As you've got a big annoying.

[Interviewee]

My mum was always one for like. She. She was very good on the first couple of assessments and I was very frustrated and, you know, I suppose worried for her. She was vulnerable and it was heavy duty. So those last couple years have been. They took the stuffing out of me and there wasn't much stuffing in. That sounds a bit. You can delete that bit.

[Host]

Best bit.

[Interviewee]

Help me.

[Host]

What are you doing when you feel most alive?

[Interviewee]

It's a wonderful question, I think, laughing with people I love. I always say to my friends, they've got a great sense of humour because they always laugh at my jokes. No, but on a real. It is about being with my loved ones. Laughing.

[Host]

Do you collect anything?

[Interviewee]

What do I collect? Other people's cats. How many jackets?

[Host]

How many cats you got?

[Interviewee]

No, no, I got one cat, my little boy. I don't collect anything, but I always carry crystals with me.

[Host]

Okay. Yeah.

[Interviewee]

Like rose quartz I've got on me in a bag.

[Host]

Yeah, yeah. Do you get them out? Obviously you're kind of getting them out now, but. What. How often you get them out? Do you like getting them out on the bus and stuff?

[Interviewee]

No, no, I don't get them out anywhere. They're just with me that is.

[Host]

With you.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Host]

Okay.

[Interviewee]

It's just about carrying it with.

[Host]

Oh, it's the energy.

[Interviewee]

It's the energy.

[Host]

It's not like you don't ever have a lot of pinky sneaky like it's not feeling them or anything.

[Interviewee]

Not at all. No, you don't have to do that with them. It's just about having them close to you. And I'm not. Listen, from young, I learned not to rely on any other being outside of myself. That's why I don't believe in God. There were many times as a child being brought up Roman Catholic that I prayed to God to come and help and no one turned up. So that's my proof that there isn't. Everyone has their own experiences, it's just my personal. So for me, that's why Buddhism works, because it's taking responsibility for yourself. It's more empowering. The thing is, consistency is difficult as human beings. But if we were all consistent all the time, can you imagine the greatness we'd achieve everything we ever, ever wanted if we were consistent. And that is the struggle.

[Host]

What is the next thing you want to achieve? Do you just have an idea then and not say it?

[Interviewee]

No.

[Host]

You don't really see something come into someone's head and then they get, they do this thing. Oh no, I don't want to say that one.

[Interviewee]

I just saw me on an armchair surrounded by loads of animals, normally joking. I'm joking. No, no. There's a few things, but once again it's something I have to be consistent with.

[Host]

But what is the thing?

[Interviewee]

I want to join a volleyball team.

[Host]

That came from nowhere.

[Interviewee]

Cuz I'm lying. Fibbing. My mum would say fibbing.

[Host]

I was like, okay, well I was ready for it. I was ready. I was gonna talk about volleyball.

[Interviewee]

You didn't even change your expression. I like that very much.

[Host]

I'm ready for everything.

[Interviewee]

I can see that. Yeah, it's good.

[Host]

Maybe you joke about it now. Maybe it's the secret calling.

[Interviewee]

No, no, come on. No, no, no.

[Host]

You get to do. You can put it on the beach.

[Interviewee]

Volleyball you could do, but I'd rather run from a rabid dog. Yeah. I'm not, to be honest. There's a few things I'm. As I said, I lost my mum not too long ago and I left a long term relationship. So I'm finding my fee.

[Host]

As in you're kind of 2.0.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Host]

Or 3. Whatever it is.

[Interviewee]

Yeah, yeah. 4, 5. Yeah. I remember saying to my therapist is, you know, it feels like I'm slightly at ground zero.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

If that's. I don't want to use that term.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

But yeah. And that was daunting at the time I said it. But now I feel that's okay. You know, that is okay. And I'm, I'm already making tracks to, to not be that.

[Host]

I really like that sometimes you Just have to acknowledge that. Oh, yeah, everything's so different and you are starting fresh. I think people feel like sometimes, like, oh, I couldn't. I couldn't begin. I'm so much of. I've done so much and I've seen so much. I am so much, you know, but actually just to kind of be like, well, you know what? This is such a new beginning indeed. You've not lived without your mum? No. And, like, it's like. So that in itself is totally new.

[Interviewee]

Thank you. It really is. I remember that feeling of walking down the street one day and realizing that she's not here anymore. Although I feel her with me a lot, you know, But I. Yeah, it's really big. But in the same sense, it is interesting and I've drawn strength from it, you know, And I've got wonderful friends, you know, that love me to pieces. And, yeah, it puts a different spin on life, obviously, but it didn't. It didn't do me in.

[Host]

I think. I think a. What's the word? A really wonderful thing that one gains from a parent dying also is immediate empathy with everyone else that has been through it. And then you're also able to communicate with them in a way that, you know, it's like being part of a club, isn't it?

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Host]

Until you're in that club, you can't picture what it would be, though.

[Interviewee]

You're so right. And thank you for saying that. Because I remember when I would speak to someone and I'd say to them, I lost my mum, their reaction to that loss was big. And it kind of. Although I knew it was big, when you heard other people's reaction, it just made. Wow, it is huge.

[Host]

Do you have any. What? Do you kind of have your mother's things or possessions or pictures? Do you have anything around you?

[Interviewee]

Of course I do.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Host]

What's your kind of go to one that you look at?

[Interviewee]

She had this lovely photo taken on a Buddhist course. She went, two years ago, they captured my mum. They took a photo of my mum and she was beaming, beaming. And my mum had a real tough life, so to see her get to that stage where she was beaming. So that's the photo I have. Yeah, that's one I go to a lot. And I can hear her say to me, I can hear it sometimes. Come on now. Come on, you can do better.

[Host]

Obviously, you seem like someone who's a great helper of others. Can you think of in your mind the greatest moment of helping other people in your life? That really stood Out. Or one that you're really happy that you did.

[Interviewee]

It's very.

[Host]

Too tricky.

[Interviewee]

It's not tricky.

[Host]

You can just grab it.

[Interviewee]

It's not tricky. There's just so many. No, I'm joking. I'm joking. I'm joking. You know, I'm joking.

[Host]

There might be so many.

[Interviewee]

I was joking on that.

[Host]

Okay. There are loads anyway.

[Interviewee]

There are loads.

[Host]

I mean, you don't even have to be jokingly good. I know, but you're. You have obviously helped a lot of people stop.

[Interviewee]

I'm sounding like Jesus here. Never know. It's all possible I could be Jesus.

[Host]

Someone had to me.

[Interviewee]

He ain't me. I ain't got the right footwear. Yeah, there's. There. There is a few, but then that. That's. I'm not. I'm not good at saying stuff that I did. Good. I'm not. That doesn't come natural to me.

[Host]

That's okay.

[Interviewee]

Thank you.

[Host]

We just know you have. Is there a question you would like to ask yourself and then answer it?

[Interviewee]

It's quite clear that years of life experience, hopefully we will gain as much wisdom possible. And what we do with that is vital. It changes our paths. But I suppose the question for myself is why did it take so long? I always knew the things. Do you know what I mean? These are things that I knew. I've always known, but just yet, why did it take so long? But then again, I think my mum passing was the, you know, that major thing in your life, which, yeah, it changed things up for me in a way, obviously, which were extremely painful, but also gave me no choice but to do things a bit differently. Do you know what I mean by that? Yeah.

[Host]

So we got there, though. Why did it take so long? We don't quite know, but.

[Interviewee]

But also, you know, I think people drive themselves nuts so much and I'm an overthinker and it's not always kind, but that thing of. It sounds so cliche. But it's okay to not be okay at times, you know, and to be kinder, we must be kinder to ourselves. The surface now, the outside of us has become the focal point. There's less spirituality. And especially for the generations coming up, they're more worried about how do I look. You know, the things on their phone to make them look a different way. And it's like no one's looking in as much.

[Host]

Okay, last question. You can answer this in like a really, like, light way or like a grander way. Totally your call. What are you going to do next?

[Interviewee]

Now, you mean, or in life?

[Host]

Either. Both. Whatever. No pressure. Maybe do now.

[Interviewee]

I think that'd be easier. Now I have to go and not have to. I'm going to go to visit a friend. I've been waiting for her to get in from work, so I'm gonna go and see her. She's got her daughter with her and my godchild, so. One of my God children. Yeah.

[Host]

How many you got?

[Interviewee]

Three.

[Host]

Fantastic.

[Interviewee]

Yes.

[Host]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

I'll spend the evening with them, probably have some dinner and then.

[Host]

Rest of life, I suppose we've kind of done that.

[Interviewee]

I like that. So casually. And rest of life. Probably best to put it lightly like that. I'm only joking. Hard to answer, really, but. I know. I know what I'm.

[Host]

I'm volleyball, obviously. Of course.

[Interviewee]

Thank you for remembering. I've got a ball in my bag, actually.

[Host]

No, I think you meant like a small ball. You've got crystals in there. You might have a ball.

[Interviewee]

What, do I take it out on the bus or on the. And have a look at it? No. Oh, that's bouncy. Been a pleasure.

[Host]

Yeah. Thank you so much.

[Interviewee]

Thank you so much.

[Host]

Very good.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. Really great. Thank you. That's a really nice. Off the cusp, you know. Really, really lovely experience. Thank you.

[Host]

Thank you for everything.

[C]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

Thank you. Thank you.

[Host]

Good luck.

[Interviewee]

Yeah, thank you. And you, too. Why are you laughing?

[Host]

Just think about volleyball.

[C]

And there it is. The house you've been building within and there it is. Your sense of the world has been shifting and there it is. A picture and a frame on the wall and there it is. She said my mother was beautiful. It's funny in the darkness you can only wonder Facing it all and then you bury thunder oh, it's funny how we laugh so there's not far too far. Nobody has it all. Nobody has it all and there it is. Your mind can be kind and be cruel and there it is. The grief and the joy can be colorful it's funny in the darkness you can only wonder Facing it all and then you bury thunder oh, it's funny how we laugh so there's not far too far. Nobody has it all. Nobody has it all? Nobody has it all.