EPISODE 42: If Only You Knew

Summary

Strangers on a Bench: Episode 42 – "If Only You Knew"

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Guest: Sarah (anonymous)
Release Date: June 30, 2025

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In Episode 42 of "Strangers on a Bench," host Tom Rosenthal engages in a deeply personal and heartfelt conversation with Sarah, an anonymous guest who shares her life journey, challenges, and triumphs. Through their 30-minute dialogue, Sarah opens up about her creative pursuits, mental health struggles, familial relationships, and the coping mechanisms that have guided her through life's adversities.

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1. Meeting on the Bench

The episode begins with Tom approaching Sarah on a London park bench, introducing his podcast concept of connecting with strangers to uncover their hidden stories.

• Tom [00:04]: "Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes."

• Sarah [00:58]: "It's nice because I was just relaxing and then obviously, like, you come and approach me. I thought, oh, that's really nice."

This initial interaction sets a tone of spontaneity and openness, laying the foundation for an intimate conversation.

2. Personal Life and Work

Sarah reveals her favorite day of the week and discusses her current work situation, providing insight into her daily life.

• Sarah [01:15]: "I'd say it was a Wednesday."

She explains that Wednesdays are her day off from work, which she uses to de-stress by sitting on the bench, reflecting a balance between her professional responsibilities and personal well-being.

• Tom [01:34]: "With these special Wednesdays off, take me through what, for you is a day really well lived in the world?"

• Sarah [01:41]: "Well, usually I think when I get off, I don't plan my day. Today was like a spontaneous one."

3. Creative Pursuits

A significant portion of the conversation centers around Sarah's passion for creative writing. She discusses her journey in pursuing a suspense-time type book and the challenges she faces in balancing creativity with professional life.

• Sarah [02:05]: "I graduated from uni last year in creative writing and media and I started writing like a suspense time type book."

• Tom [02:38]: "People watching is good, isn't it?"

Sarah elaborates on how observing people provides her with inspiration and ideas for her writing, highlighting the symbiotic relationship between her environment and creative output.

4. Mental Health Journey

One of the most poignant segments of the episode delves into Sarah's struggles with anxiety and depression. She candidly discusses her experiences working with Childline and the emotional toll it took on her.

• Sarah [08:00]: "I have to write everything on there, even though I hate computers."

• Tom [16:29]: "What does a breakdown look like as opposed to just your average day of depression?"

• Sarah [16:40]: "Moment, you just literally lose the person you are. It's hard to explain. You're very vulnerable."

Sarah describes the intense vulnerability and rock-bottom moments associated with a mental health breakdown, contrasting them with her daily battles with anxiety. She emphasizes the importance of masking her struggles to maintain her professional facade.

• Sarah [11:02]: "I mask everything. Like people in work don't know. I suffer with depression."

• Tom [11:19]: "Do you think that's a good thing?"

• Sarah [11:27]: "No, probably not, but it's the only way I can deal with stuff."

5. Family and Relationships

The dialogue shifts to Sarah's familial relationships, particularly her relationship with her mother and her role as a parent. She shares touching anecdotes about overcoming past barriers to build stronger bonds with her children.

• Sarah [13:00]: "The other one sort of disappeared from my life and then eventually came back."

• Tom [14:06]: "How has it affected you as a parent?"

• Sarah [14:09]: "It was hard because I had barriers up all the time, and as a parent, it's like it was difficult to show love."

Sarah recounts her efforts to mend relationships and the emotional breakthroughs that allowed her to become a more affectionate and present parent.

6. Coping Mechanisms and Healing

Sarah discusses various strategies she employs to cope with her mental health challenges and the loss of her children. Writing and creative expression play crucial roles in her healing process.

• Sarah [25:46]: "I have a negative and a positive each day... I think that helps as well."

• Tom [28:13]: "What are your goals?"

• Sarah [28:13]: "Using my creative side... and making stuff. I always remember my mum said, you're very creative."

She emphasizes the therapeutic benefits of journaling and setting achievable goals, which provide structure and positivity amidst her struggles.

7. Creativity and Future Aspirations

Towards the end of the conversation, Sarah shares her aspirations to complete her creative projects, particularly her novel titled "The Cave." She highlights the encouragement she receives from her lecturer regarding her vivid imagination.

• Sarah [28:36]: "My creative side... finishing what I'm doing."

• Tom [28:41]: "What was the story you were doing?"

• Sarah [28:41]: "The Cave. It keeps you on your toes. It's really good."

Sarah's determination to see her creative endeavors through to completion underscores her resilience and commitment to personal growth.

8. Final Reflections and Closing Thoughts

As the conversation wraps up, Sarah reflects on her mother's influence and the importance of empathy and communication in overcoming personal challenges.

• Sarah [27:07]: "She's a great person... nothing's unachievable."

• Tom [32:15]: "And, as you kind of meaningfully put earlier, you know, there are lots of things that are invisible at people."

Tom shares his appreciation for the meaningful exchange, emphasizing the universal nature of hidden struggles and the value of human connection.

• Tom [32:44]: "We're having a moment. There's two people just randomly come together."

Sarah concurs, acknowledging the serendipitous and enriching nature of their meeting on the bench.

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Key Takeaways:

• Human Connection: The episode underscores the profound impact of casual human interactions in uncovering shared experiences and fostering empathy.

• Mental Health Awareness: Sarah's candid discussion highlights the importance of recognizing and addressing mental health issues, as well as the challenges of masking one's struggles.

• Resilience and Creativity: Despite facing significant personal losses and mental health challenges, Sarah's dedication to creative pursuits serves as a testament to her resilience and determination to find solace and purpose through art.

• Family Bonds: The evolution of Sarah's relationships with her family members illustrates the healing power of communication and the importance of breaking down emotional barriers.

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Notable Quotes:

• Sarah [11:02]: "I mask everything. Like people in work don't know. I suffer with depression."

• Sarah [25:46]: "I have a negative and a positive each day... I think that helps as well."

• Sarah [28:38]: "What are your goals?"
  "Using my creative side... and making stuff."

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Conclusion:

Episode 42 of "Strangers on a Bench" offers listeners an intimate glimpse into Sarah's life, marked by creativity, resilience, and the continual pursuit of healing. Through her honest reflections and shared experiences, the episode emphasizes the universal nature of human struggles and the enduring strength found in vulnerability and connection.

Transcript

[Tom]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. We're flying, we're brand new, so me and you on the bench is only going to happen once. Just.

[Sarah]

I know.

[Tom]

Isn't it funny?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

The chances of anyone meeting is just insane, really. But then if you think about too much, it's kind of maybe too much weight.

[Sarah]

And it's nice because I was just relaxing and then obviously, like, you come and approach me. I thought, oh, that's really nice. That is.

[Tom]

Well, let's hope so.

[Sarah]

Good.

[Tom]

Well, let's hope you feel like that at the end as well.

[Sarah]

I know with a bit of luck.

[Tom]

You will be all right. Okay, so first question is, do you have a favourite day of the week?

[Sarah]

Yep. I'd say it was a Wednesday.

[Tom]

Nice. You're very certain about a Wednesday. Tell me why.

[Sarah]

Because I'm usually in work and I always have a Wednesday off. And then just to de stress, I come and sit here and it's the best place ever.

[Tom]

Oh, that's wonderful.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I love it.

[Tom]

Now tell me, with these special Wednesdays off, take me through what, for you is a. Is a day really well lived in the world?

[Sarah]

Well, usually I think when I get off, I don't plan my day.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Today was like a spontaneous one. Like just walking around, getting me steps in. And because it was, like, really nice, I thought, you know what? I'm just gonna sit and chill and think things that I could change in my life and stuff like that.

[Tom]

So can I ask what you've been thinking about? Let's go straight into it.

[Sarah]

Because I graduated from uni last year in creative writing and media and I started writing like a suspense time type book.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

But I had to put it down because my lecture says, like, to make a good writer, you've got to be able to leave it and come back to it.

[Tom]

Okay.

[Sarah]

So being out here gives me thoughts and things, like the next bit to write. And it's gonna take a while, but it gives me ideas. Sometimes I take notes down, down to, like, noises and, oh, amazing people. And because I like people watching.

[Tom]

Oh, people watching is good, isn't it?

[Sarah]

Yeah. But because you get like. You wonder, like, what their story is.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

People sitting on a bench.

[Tom]

Well, this is what this podcast is about, in a sense. You know, wondering and then also finding out.

[Sarah]

Yeah. It's interesting.

[Tom]

Oh, always, yeah. When you're people watching.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

What are you looking out for?

[Sarah]

I guess, like the feeling, you know, are they lonely? Do they only come here just to escape the loneliness? Because, like, obviously you've got all these people around you.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Hence why I do that as well. Because, like, sometimes you feel so alone. But I'll come out and then I feel like I'm not even down to ducks and geese. You're not alone, of course. And that's what I think when I see people, you know, are they happy? Are they come out the same reason as I have?

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

If you had to. This is a funny question, but if you had to, kind of, if you were people watching yourself.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

What do you think you would think about yourself?

[Sarah]

I'd feel. I don't know. If someone was watching me, I think they'd think I was alone, I suppose, like, sometimes I can give off that vibe, though. Like, I was down there before.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And then someone sat on the bench next to me and I just thought.

[Tom]

Oh, you weren't having it?

[Sarah]

No, I wanted to just be on my own, type thing.

[Tom]

You're gonna start wandering off any minute.

[Sarah]

No, no, no, no, no. It was. Yeah. So I just come up and sat. It was just peaceful. It's not very often I'll get that because usually in work, so it's. It's nice to do that.

[Tom]

Is work stressful for you?

[Sarah]

Yeah, at the moment, yeah. To renovate in. So I normally do sort of a few nights and then days and that, so.

[Tom]

So you do nights, renovating?

[Sarah]

Yeah. All the builders are in, so we're having to take stuff off, move stuff, and it's like, unreal.

[Tom]

Have you formed any relationships or any builders that fun?

[Sarah]

I just, like. They laugh at me because I keep setting the alarms off. They're like, what, you're nicking?

[Tom]

How are you? Oh, of course. They like scaffolding and stuff.

[Sarah]

Yeah, yeah. So they're doing all that. I mean, they're lovely. Don't get me wr. They have more breaks than Soft Joe, though, but Soft Joe? Just a saying.

[Tom]

Oh, sorry, It's a saying. I've not heard that.

[Sarah]

Yeah, it's a Scouse saying.

[Tom]

That's a new one to me. More breaks than Soft Joe. Yeah, but who was Soft Joe?

[Sarah]

I don't know. I used. I've always said it for years.

[Tom]

Just someone who's soft. Probably breaks.

[Sarah]

Yeah, probably.

[Tom]

So let's plot a bit of a. Bit of a life story for you. You obviously got a job and then on the side you've been studying. Yeah, as a last year, Creative writing.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

But that's. That was very new endeavor.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Because I. I was like a more mature student, obviously, and I'd done like four years, and it was, like, hard. Like, I enjoyed the subjects I was doing. I learned so much. And then obviously, like, I graduated, which was a big thing at my age anyway. But it was my grandson. It was because I wrote, like a kid's story. And I read it to him and he goes, nana, he goes, you really need to write for children. That's right. And you need to go, big school. I went, I have been big school. And he goes, you know, it's a big one.

[Tom]

Really big one.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And I went, you mean uni? And he goes, yeah, that's it.

[Tom]

Oh, that's so cool.

[Sarah]

So as hard as it was and the challenges I faced, I kept thinking of him and I thought, I've got to do it for myself. But for him. And he come on my graduation day. So. Yeah.

[Tom]

That is so sweet.

[Sarah]

Best feeling ever.

[Tom]

Tell me what made you do a go to uni.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

But what was that moment where you decided? How did you decide?

[Sarah]

It was just like years ago. I'd had the kids, and I sort of, like, put myself on a back burner. It was working the kids and stuff like that. Like, the kids were my biggest accomplish. But I wanted something for me that I could say I did this, but by myself. Because people thought I wouldn't see it through. Because I'm like, that I'll start something.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Where? I don't know.

[Tom]

And you show it and you prove them wrong.

[Sarah]

I proved them wrong.

[Tom]

So well done. I think it takes an extra special courage.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

To start things later.

[Sarah]

It was scary. Yeah. I mean, I was like 55 when I started. Do you know what I mean? So it was a big thing for me. I'm like, oh, geez. I was like, the mum.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

I've had to come up to her problems. I'm like, oh, geez, what's that like? But it's lovely. I'm like that in work now.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I get hugs every time I walk in. Or they're like, where have you been? I hug everyone in work. I'm terrible.

[Tom]

Do you think people don't hug enough?

[Sarah]

Yeah, that's true. That. Yeah, some. A little bit. But like, there was like, one, and I sort of broke her barriers down. Cause she was just like, yeah. You know, and now every time she sees me now, she's like, well done straight away.

[Tom]

Well, that is very good of you.

[Sarah]

I think it's important because I didn't have it when I was younger.

[Tom]

Okay. What you mean your parents didn't have.

[Sarah]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Tom]

So now indicative of like just generally how they approach.

[Sarah]

Just how they approached. Yeah. But I wanted to break that where I could give that.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

You know. Well, I used to do like the childline counseling and everything.

[Tom]

Amazing.

[Sarah]

Yeah. So I really enjoyed that. But I moved where it was heart wrenching.

[Tom]

Them just get it. So we're on the right footing. Child line is basically you're on the end of a phone.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

And a child's phoning up saying they've got a. They've got a problem or they're being.

[Sarah]

Yeah. You can't sympathize with them. You've just got to have empathy because we have to have training on it, how to be that person. So they don't want sympathy, they just want someone to listen to them and to show them empathy, which is different from obviously simply. And it's hard because you hear them and what they're going through. It's like, it's so hard. But when you can make that difference to that one person, it's the most rewarding thing ever. So when you have that shift, I mean, I think I got about 30 phone calls in, in the space of four hours.

[Tom]

Wow.

[Sarah]

And that's, it's, it's gut wrenching because you, you see it, you know, you hear it type thing and it's like. Yeah, it's one of the, I think the hardest things ever anyone can do. But you just got to be there.

[Tom]

Is it kind of quite kind of difficult to kind of say goodbye to these people? I mean, they want to come off the phone.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I know. And then you have to like write everything on a computer down, even though I hate computers. But you have to write everything on there.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Everything that was said. And then the minute you put your thing on, the phone's ringing again and it's like. And weekends were the worst.

[Tom]

Can you remember a particular call that stayed with you?

[Sarah]

Yeah, but I don't really want. It's too close to home to me.

[Tom]

That's fine.

[Sarah]

And that's what made me come away from that Childline Council for that reason. It really affected me. Yeah.

[Tom]

Oh, God. Do you mean it reminded you of your situation?

[Sarah]

Yeah. So it was. Yeah, it was tough.

[Tom]

So from what you said. But I obviously want to try because it seems like a. Obviously a sensitive thing, but, you know, difficult childhood is what you're hinting at here, how did you kind of overcome.

[Sarah]

I didn't. I have never really come it. No, but I had.

[Tom]

You must have overcome it to a sense that it for some people would turn inwards and you.

[Sarah]

And you turn out. Because I suffer with anxiety really bad and obviously like depression and stuff like that. But I pushed everything to the back of my head.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And then I learn how to love people and hug people and stuff like that. I had to learn that. But I have like days where I'm like, it's just horrible. It's like each day is different and I do suffer. I'm really anxious all the time. So this does me good. Coming out like in the sun, winter. I feel like lost. I'm still lost, but eventually, you know, I mean, who knows, you know, things might change, I don't know. But I just try my hardest to try and get through a day. It's not overcome it, but I've learned to deal with things and how to work with things. So even though it's there, it's like a light, isn't it? You switch it off.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And I mask everything. Like people in work don't know. Like I suffer with depression now this woman, she said, oh God, you're always smiling all the time. She said, that does my head in there. And I used to. If only you knew. And then I told her then I suffered with depression. She said, you would never know. I said, no, because I mask it.

[Tom]

Do you think that's a good thing?

[Sarah]

No, probably not, but it's the only way I can deal with stuff.

[Tom]

Do you think if people knew more they would probably help you?

[Sarah]

Probably, yeah.

[Tom]

I suppose it's difficult to kind of. You can't really announce.

[Sarah]

No. No. So a lot of the time I just mask it and put front on.

[Tom]

But does that take its toll kind of later?

[Sarah]

It does sometimes like you have like rough days where you just feel proper rough and you just. This is just rubbish.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And then other days I'm like, oh, I'm having a good day today. So it's great. You know what I mean?

[Tom]

When you wake up, can you just know.

[Sarah]

I know what you're doing.

[Tom]

It's just a feeling.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

And it's not related to.

[Sarah]

And it can swap just like that. Some days I can be great and then within the afternoon, some. Anything can just knock me. But I try and like deal with it as best as I can. So. Yeah. It's just hard going.

[Tom]

Oh, it's really difficult.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

You know what you'd be amazed. So many people, I mean, it's like a really large number who I've spoken to on benches.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Have had kind of similar sounding childhoods. And you just. And you just. And you then. Well, maybe they did more. More people had difficult. Tried to sit on benches for. I know, but from the people I spoke to, I've just had. And it makes you just feel kind of, you know, I think so many people complain about their parents being.

[Sarah]

Oh.

[Tom]

And it kind of makes you completely kind of reconsider like how lucky you are just to have to Fairly normal parents. You've won the lottery, basically.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Given that you could have got, you know, you can get any.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

So I mean with everyone to blame in your childhood, was any. Was there anyone that wasn't one particular one. Okay.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

But the one that wasn't to blame. Did you have any kind of relationship?

[Sarah]

The other one sort of disappeared from my life.

[Tom]

Right.

[Sarah]

And then eventually come back. Bit tough, but then we got through it, mended a few bridges.

[Tom]

Did you talk about stuff?

[Sarah]

Not the stuff, no. But we spoke about why they did what they did.

[Tom]

Okay.

[Sarah]

You know, like up and leaving and then eventually we had like a bit of a breakthrough then.

[Tom]

Okay.

[Sarah]

Yeah. So obviously when they passed it was like. It was gut wrenching and I don't think I've really grieved over them.

[Tom]

Really.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Yeah. That's my mum. I've never.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

You know, and I do miss her loads, I think, because we got a lot closer than what we'd ever been, which was nice.

[Tom]

That was really good.

[Sarah]

It was lovely. Do you know what I mean?

[Tom]

There's not, you know, there's not that regret that you didn't have those conversations.

[Sarah]

No. I'm glad. Like we did. I sort of put my foot down type thing and sort of. And then obviously they understood then why I was like angry at different things.

[Tom]

Yeah. How has it affected you as a parent?

[Sarah]

I don't know. It was like hard because I had barriers up all the time and as a parent. Yeah. Do you know what I mean? It's like it was hard to like show love even though I did. Do you know what I mean? It was just. I didn't know how to hug, how to love or anything. Like now, like we're just all so close.

[Tom]

The hugs of frying sensor now.

[Sarah]

Now it's. Yeah. So. But at the time, like, it was like, it was difficult.

[Tom]

How do you. How you. How did you get from one state?

[Sarah]

Because I don't know, like I had A bad breakdown, mental breakdown. And I realized like, you know, I felt like I wasn't a good parent. Even though like they tell me I was, but I didn't feel a while.

[Tom]

When was that? When did that happen?

[Sarah]

Oh, years ago, cuz mine are all grown up now. But it was just obviously like a marriage breakdown as well.

[Tom]

Okay.

[Sarah]

So that didn't help. And then obviously I got help, like medication, stuff like that. And then it sort of put me on an evening keel because we all went through a lot because of like obviously the relationship with the kid's dad. But we had talks and stuff like that and sort of like got through things that way because I think talking is like really important and I think that's what it was. Like we sort of had that breakthrough. So now we're all close.

[Tom]

So after that time you all sat down to talk about.

[Sarah]

Yeah, yeah. Even we still do. Even like now, like if they need me, they know I'm at the end of a phone call. Or like when my son had the breakup from his marriage, he was with me, come and stay with me then it's like that. My home's like. They just saw the light. Little flies keep coming back. Or was it a boomerang? Honestly, it really is. And it's funny. But when we're all together, they all take the mick out of me, which is you. But then I just give it back. But that's how it is and it's really funny. Do you know what I mean?

[Tom]

So, so over the years you basically kind of, you've learned kind of communication methods that work for you.

[Sarah]

Because there was no communication when I was brought up where now I know that communication is the key.

[Tom]

Yeah, it's wonderful.

[Emily]

Yeah.

[Tom]

I mean, this may be a bit of a big question, but talk me through what a breakdown looks like as opposed to say just, you know, your average, your average day of depression or.

[Sarah]

Moment, you just literally lose the person you are. It's hard to explain. You're very vulnerable. It can push you to do stupid things. It's in a blink of an eye, you've just completely lost it. You're at rock bottom. And to get it back up again is like really hard. It's like suffocating. Yeah, yeah.

[Tom]

So you kind of just block out memories from that time.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

So you just remember.

[Sarah]

I block out a lot.

[Tom]

So you just remember it being just. It's just awful, awful time. There's nothing that kind of. And it's just one big blur, basically.

[Sarah]

Yeah, some of it is, but there it's always there. Like, I was talking to the doctor, he said you can have like a. Not a memory loss, but it's like in your head is like it chooses to block out certain parts until it's resurfaced again. So obviously that's what I must do. Yeah. But it literally your. It's your brain blocking out some of those things, so it doesn't always resurface all the time, but something might all trigger that off the memory and then it'll just come flooding to your head. Or even with dreams and stuff like that, you know, I wake up and I'm. I'm physically sick because the anxiety, whatever was in the dream, I'll wake up and then I'll be sick. Yeah.

[Tom]

Oh, that's awful.

[Sarah]

Yeah, it's. You know what I mean? But I mean, like, I have a laugh and I love. I love having a laugh and stuff, like. Yeah. And go like with my daughters. I'll go out with them.

[Tom]

Oh, lovely.

[Sarah]

Their friends will say, we're taking your mum out with us.

[Tom]

What does going out look like?

[Sarah]

It was great. Well, we'll say, like, right, on Saturday we're going to go out and we've got this thing about going in the photo booth. We'll go in there, take really funny photos, adorable memories.

[Tom]

At what point do you get in the photo booth?

[Sarah]

In the beginning, Because I know obviously.

[Tom]

Once I'm gone, you get there. That's almost like before. It's almost like before the first drink in the photo booth. Love it.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Have a go to, like, face.

[Sarah]

Oh, yes. Like, things like.

[Tom]

That's perfect for audio.

[Sarah]

That is, but it is. It's like, peace out. Do you know what I mean? So, yeah, we just have a laugh. It's funny because, like, I don't get, like, Blossom, where I can't walk in a straight line, but I will be merry. And they always say to me, go in the photo booth first, because otherwise, once you've had a few drinks, you go around robbing people's hats. I've got this thing about hats I did on New Year.

[Tom]

You're a hat robber?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Love it.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

How many hats can you take at one guy?

[Sarah]

I've given them back.

[Tom]

I'll give them back.

[Sarah]

Oh, sorry.

[Tom]

I thought maybe they collected them up.

[Sarah]

No, because we went to a house party. I was a nun. It was a Halloween one.

[Tom]

Yes.

[Sarah]

And then that come off. The habit stuff come off. Then I had. For some reason, I had someone's red wig on. And then I had this other thing, a Hat. I had something else on. And then when we went out on New Year's Eve, there was a couple and they had these parts. Yes. I went, oh. So I put it on and everyone keeps saying, what is a bastard? I said, it's wigs, hats, scarfs, you name it. That's what I'm like.

[Tom]

That's amazing. I think if any. You're going to be any type of robbery. Hat rubber.

[Sarah]

Yeah, hat rubber. I just think it's because it makes you, like, look different. You know, you got the thing.

[Tom]

It's an instant look change, isn't it?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

It's the quickest way you can change your look.

[Sarah]

Yeah. My daughters are like, oh, God, she's off, she's doing it again.

[Tom]

We know we're in that zone.

[Sarah]

It's so funny, though. It is funny.

[Tom]

What's it like to go out with your. With your kids?

[Sarah]

They love it. I take them out.

[Tom]

Oh, brilliant. So you bring the party.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Do people look at that and go, oh, that's so. You know. Do they think it's strange?

[Sarah]

No, they think it's dead nice.

[Tom]

Like, it is dead nice. But I just wonder what, like the.

[Sarah]

No, they go at, like, the friends, but the friends invite me as well.

[Tom]

Oh, my gosh. You're like. You're just like the cool one, basically.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I love it. I just like. I like where you can just laugh.

[Tom]

Are we dancing as well?

[Sarah]

Oh, God. You're on the bar.

[Tom]

Yes. As in, like, literally standing on the bar.

[Sarah]

Yeah, because there's other women dancing on the bar, you see. So we get up.

[Tom]

Oh, incredible.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

How many moves can you do if you're just on the bar? How wide is this bar?

[Sarah]

Just, like, don't know. A bit wider than this, but all very wide. No. Oh, I'm all right.

[Tom]

You're pretty good.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Maybe.

[Sarah]

See, years ago, I used to. When I lived in Runcorn, I used to get on the windowsill and dance all the time. Yeah. In the bank chambers in the 90s.

[Tom]

Hang on, let's take it one sec, one sec. You used to get used to get on the windowsill.

[Sarah]

Yeah, there's the. Yeah.

[Tom]

And then just. What? And then what? The other side was.

[Sarah]

They were just dancing. Everyone's dancing on the window.

[Tom]

As in. Was there any. Was it. We're not windows. Not open, I guess.

[Sarah]

No, no, no, no, no. Because it been blocked in with wood and I just. I just said to offend. Should we go from the windowsill? Should you have gone? So we did. And then everyone was doing it, then you're pioneer.

[Tom]

Windowsill pioneer. They all follow. They all followed you.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

What do you feel like when you're dancing?

[Sarah]

Oh, I love it. Absolutely. It's. I don't know, it's just like. It's like a release. But you feel really happy. Like I have. When I go for a walk, I have my music on all the time and I feel like I can conquer anything when I've got music on.

[Tom]

That's lovely.

[Sarah]

Yeah. When I'm going, the boss, if I'm a bit anxious going into work, even though love work. Anxious music goes on and I. I have so many ideas going through my head. Yeah. I'm going to do this. This. This do you mean. But it gives me that boost, so it's. Yeah.

[Tom]

Are you ever tempted just to kind of just dance everywhere?

[Sarah]

I'd love to. I do it in the shops, but my daughters go mad at me in the shops. Yeah. Messing about. A song comes on. I'm like, oh, look, here we go, let's do it. Yeah. And they're like packing in now.

[Tom]

Yeah. I have to admit, I've also embarrassed my children trying to do that. It's great. It's too fun. It's too fun not to.

[Sarah]

Yeah. I said, it has to be done or I'll sing and I'll. Please.

[Tom]

Yeah. Good to get to dance also. And then also see their faces. It's a double whammy.

[Sarah]

I said, anyway, a mum has to. Or a dad, whatever. Has to embarrass the kids at least once. Yeah. But you do it every time we go in the shop.

[Tom]

It strengthens them.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Do you think there's. I mean, is it a Scouse Liverpool thing where it's cool for your mum to be in a bar?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Or is it a youth? Is it just a youth?

[Sarah]

No, I think Scousers are all the same.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah. They just know how to have fun.

[Tom]

Yes.

[Sarah]

Yes.

[Tom]

That's a great thing to have.

[Sarah]

Yeah. And very friendly as well. It is a scousing. They're like your best friend. You meet them, you get on with them and that's how it is, you know.

[Tom]

And you're straight off dancing.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

That's just so. That's just so lovely.

[Sarah]

And talking. That's my favorite pastime.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

You're very good at it.

[Sarah]

Yeah, I. I absolutely love it.

[Tom]

You're so well practiced. I'm very much enjoying talking to you. Can I ask you about your tattoos? Or is that a bit boring?

[Sarah]

No, no, no. Everyone's got a meaning. But Mainly it is for. I lost two boys at 26 weeks pregnant and my. One of my daughters was born at 25 weeks, but she was a twin. She was £1 6 born and her brother was £1 14 and he only lived five days. But I got tattoos in memory of them, so that's. In memory all that. My legs are some like the. That one and they're the lines on the side of there for me grandkids.

[Tom]

That's lovely. If it's not too painful to ask what I mean, I mean, how did you get through losing the.

[Sarah]

Oh, God. I didn't at first. It just. That was horrendous. The first one, obviously. And to go to your child's funeral and seeing that little coffin, it was just. I was distraught, literally. I was like, it was horrible. I just. But then obviously a while after I got like, I had another son and that was. Everything was. Well, he, he had problems but like now he's. He's okay. And then I had the others and then I had the twins and had them at 25 weeks. There was no stopping them type thing. And it was on the Boxing Day and I knew that when I went to see them both, I knew that he wasn't going to make it. And the kid's dad was saying to me, well, how do you know you're being stupid? I went, nah, I said. And sure enough, we got a phone call at quarter six so we had to get up to the hospital. And he hung on, he worked on him for 45 minutes and he put him in my arms and I felt his last breath. But I had to focus on the other daughter. She was really poorly. She needed like me, the kids needed me. Do you know what I mean? So it was like, yeah, it was hard going and even now it's. One would have been 28 now and the other one would have been 25. It like doesn't go a day when I don't think about them at all, you know. So when I feel sometimes like really low and I'm thinking about them or the anniversary and what have you, I'll get a tattoo. You know, I'll even like sometimes I haven't brought a book today, but I'll sometimes write in a book. It's like therapeutic. Writing in a book.

[Tom]

Yes.

[Sarah]

I think that's writing your thoughts down, little journal. And then I'll do like a negative and a positive and I think, oh, I've had more positive days this week. I had one negative day, so I think that helps as well. You know, for anyone, if they're going through things like that, is always have a journal and write in it and what you want. What's your goals? Even for me in, like, my age, I think what's your goals? Yeah. So that's how I do it. Yeah.

[Tom]

Well, yeah, considering what you've gone through to see.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Immense courage to get to where you are. And it seems like still standing you are. Or sitting.

[Sarah]

Well, that's a different story then. This is me, one of my daughters.

[Tom]

Hello, I'm Tom.

[Sarah]

Yeah. He come approached me and said, do you want to go do the podcast? I want to do that. Imagine going up to people on the bench.

[Tom]

I'm very lucky. I get to hear people's stories. Do you want to say anything about your mum?

[Sarah]

She's a great person. I feel like she's very ambitious and wants, like, a lot out of life, which inspires, obviously, all of us. But, no, she's very. Someone who's, like, very driven and stuff like that. So, like, that is definitely inspiring. And, like, nothing's unachievable, which I feel like is definitely.

[Tom]

Yeah, I'm really getting. I'm really getting that sense from.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Talking to her.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Nothing is unachievable.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Nope. I say that to you, Stone.

[Tom]

I. I really like that because she.

[Sarah]

Graduated the same time as me last year.

[Tom]

Fantastic.

[Sarah]

And my other daughter.

[Tom]

Did you graduate together?

[Sarah]

No, she was down London. And my other daughter's doing acting, so she graduates this year.

[Tom]

Is she gonna pop up next?

[Sarah]

No, no, she's actually in work. Imagine she was the twin.

[Tom]

Oh, amazing.

[Sarah]

The £1 6 1.

[Tom]

Amazing.

[Sarah]

And now look at her.

[Tom]

This is the first time a child has come to a mother on a bench.

[Sarah]

I know. It's my cat, isn't it? Actually, no, it's the new one, actually. It was down there, but decided to move up here. I'm glad I did because you came along.

[Tom]

Yeah, absolutely. Perfect.

[Sarah]

Yeah. So it must have been meant to be here.

[Tom]

This is so good. Can I ask you three more questions before, while I've got you?

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Because I've. Obviously, you might want to do something with your doorstep. Do you. You mentioned goals and still having them and wanting them. What. What are yours?

[Sarah]

Well, obviously, is having a book actually using my. My. My creative side, because I love creativity.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

And making stuff. And I always remember my mum said, you're very creative. Do this, do this. But now my goal is to actually finish what I'm doing.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Do you know what I mean? I have ideas, but, like, you know, Start and finish it. Do you know what I mean? So. And that's what I want to do.

[Tom]

That's the name of what, this book.

[Sarah]

What was that story I was doing? What was the. No, I've done the Tree. Oh, God. The Cave. The Cave, Yeah, the Cave. I might change the title, though, because the way the story's going, it's like. It's like. Keeps you on your toes. It's really good. It is fantastic because my lecturer said you, you're very good with your imagination.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

Did. Your imagination is off the scale.

[Tom]

Fantastic. I was like, yeah, that's so lovely.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Is there a question you would like to ask yourself and then answer it?

[Sarah]

I'd say, why did I put up with the amount of rubbish I put up with? Why didn't I do something earlier? Do you know what I mean? But obviously I can answer it because I wasn't strong. But I wish, like, that's my question. Why did I put up with stuff as long as I did? I'm not as weak now.

[Tom]

No, that's it. You got there. Which I think is. I think some people may put up for stuff for their whole life and never have a breakthrough. So just to get there, I think is a wonderful, important thing.

[Sarah]

Think. Yeah. Well, my main priority was.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Sarah]

To. To get out the situation for them.

[Tom]

Them over there.

[Sarah]

Yeah, them over there.

[Tom]

Fantastic. Well, thank you. So. Thank you so much for talking to me.

[Sarah]

Oh, no, it's been brilliant. I've loved it.

[Tom]

Yeah. I've really enjoyed it. And the last question is one that everyone gets.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

You can either answer it in a today way or a big way.

[Sarah]

Okay.

[Tom]

However you want to do it. What are you going to do next?

[Sarah]

Don't know. Like, do what I said set out to do. But also when we get home, she's making me a brew. She doesn't drink hot drinks. I make her have a brew.

[Tom]

But you don't drink. That's quite funny.

[Sarah]

She doesn't drink hot drinks, but, yeah, that's how it is. Yeah. So she's my brew mate. Yeah.

[Tom]

It seems only fair and it's easy.

[Sarah]

Because it's only green tea.

[Tom]

Yeah. You can't. You can't go. You can't go too badly wrong.

[Sarah]

No, just watering. Honestly, like, that's it. As I said, it's not as if you're making a bloody cake or something.

[Tom]

Well, I hope you have a great brew.

[Sarah]

Oh, thank you, I'm sure. Can I ask you a question? What made you get into this? What made you want to do this. Did you find it daunting to start off with, though?

[Tom]

Approaching a little bit? I think it's always daunting every time you do it. I mean, just, you know, you're about to kind of slightly shock someone on the whole. Most would approach people just with a, with a weird request. So it's kind of, there's always that butterfly. But what made me do this? I've always been interested in breaking down the barriers, these kind of invisible barriers, but between us.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

And I, you know, I do think it's kind of wild that we all walk around each other.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

All the time. And like you were saying earlier about looking at these people and imagining stories and wondering.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

And actually it's possible just to find out. I mean, it's.

[Sarah]

Right.

[Tom]

And when you find out, you realize that obviously we have more in common. Obviously. Obviously that we're all got struggles.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

And we've all got hardships. Almost. Regardless, Regardless of your situation in life where you are, there's always, there's all. And, and as you kind of meaningfully put earlier, you know, you know, there's lots of things that are invisible at people.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

And I think that's a shame. So I'm better off just, you know, even if we weren't recording this, I'm so much better off for having spoken to you.

[Sarah]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Tom]

So just to kind of break that down.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

For me, that's, that, that's been the, always been the plan, the idea.

[Sarah]

I think it's nice because you're making someone's day. Yeah.

[Tom]

And then it's, it's obviously extra that, you know, people get to hear it.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

And to get something from it as well.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

But on the whole, I just, I, I, I, I just have an intense highs.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Walking away from people and knowing that like, you know, we've had, we've had a moment.

[Sarah]

Yeah.

[Tom]

There's two people just randomly come together.

[Sarah]

Really nice. Yeah.

[Tom]

So thank you so much for being part of that.

[Sarah]

I've enjoyed it.

[Tom]

Good.

[Sarah]

Thank you.

[Tom]

I've enjoyed it too. Yeah. And good luck.

[Sarah]

Oh, thank you.

[Emily]

Black clouds on the seafront today in Liverpool Too fast to be visible out there Then your book is filled with solitary scribbles from you to me to them oh, the first time when and grabs your palm and shakes you from your light sleep through all of the years and after again you'll feel the warmth of those little bare feet.

[Sarah]

How.

[Emily]

Writing calmed you and the children that you have I know there's nothing they can do so you sleepwalk back to your car to find out she's put on on a kettle for Sam.