EPISODE 49: I Go To Extremes

Summary

Podcast Summary: Strangers on a Bench

Episode 49: I Go To Extremes
Host: Tom Rosenthal
Date: August 18, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this moving installment of Strangers on a Bench, Tom Rosenthal sits down with an anonymous stranger on a London park bench—a retired man recently returned to Sheffield after decades living in Jersey. The conversation explores themes of extremity and moderation—both in physical pursuits and relationships—an exploration of solitude, aging, heartbreak, parenting, and the enduring search for contentment. The discussion travels through the stranger’s past as a bodybuilder and wild youth, examines the costs of a driven personality, and reveals a candid, poignant account of loss and the changing nature of connection.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

On Retirement and Daily Routine

• The Experience of Retirement:

  • Days "clump into one" following retirement, losing the weekday distinctions treasured in working life.
  • [01:14] “I’m retired now. I used to like Fridays a lot, but today they all clump into one.” (Guest)

• Intermittent Fasting and Health Extremes:

  • Only eats once a day at 5:30 PM; has previously completed a 23-day water-and-salt fast.
  • [02:13] “I only eat once a day, Tom. How about that?” (Guest)
  • [02:16] “I once did 23 days on salt and water. Truthfully.” (Guest)
  • [03:35] Critiques modern eating habits: “99% of people graze all day, they don’t appreciate the food.”

On Returning to Sheffield

• Reason for Move & Emotional Transition:
  • Recently returned to Sheffield after 40 years, facing the anxiety of change, but quickly adapting.
  • [04:30] “I don’t get excited too much about things. I sort of take it in my stride.” (Guest)
  • [04:54] “You build it up to something it’s not... there’s nothing to worry about.”

On Family, Loss, and Connection

• Orphanhood and Parental Reflections:

  • Reflects warmly on his mother and late father, referencing deep affection and shared humor.
  • [06:09] “Oh, so humorous and loving and such a sense of humor.” (Guest on his mother)

• The Shifting Nature of Friendship:

  • Discusses the winnowing of friendships over time and a growing comfort with solitude.
  • [06:49] “A lot of them aren’t your friends. But you only find that out later on as you go through life.”
  • [07:00] “I’ve mainly dropped them.” (On letting friends go)

On Extremes: Bodybuilding and Beyond

• Competitive Past:

  • Former competitive powerlifter and bodybuilder; twice “Mr. Channel Island.”
  • [07:44] “I was Mr. Channel island twice. One in 1986 and the last one I did was in 1993.”

• Ethics and Health Costs of Competition:

  • Refused to use certain supplements, knowing the health risks.
  • [08:44] “Just taking certain things, you know, strong supplements.”
  • [08:52] “...it would have been potentially damaging to my health with what I would have had to take.”

• The Mindset of Extremes:

  • Emphasizes his tendency toward “going to extremes,” from fasting to sexual exploits to competition.
  • [09:03] “I’m extreme. For instance, the 23 day fast, that’s extreme.”

• 1993 Bodybuilding Win:

  • Describes the competition day with humor and detail; selects “War” as his routine’s music.
  • [10:21] “What did you choose [for the routine]? War.”
  • [12:10] Won not only his category but the overall prize.

• Mixed Feelings on Achievements:

  • Now regards the bodybuilding physique as “bloaty and false and fake,” preferring “a more athletic look.”
  • [12:21] “If I had my time again, I wouldn’t do it... I don’t like that look any longer.”

• Health Consequences of Past Habits:

  • Heavy cigar smoking contributed to circulation issues, which he tries to manage now through lifestyle changes.
  • [13:24] “I was a very prolific cigar smoker and it damaged my circulation.”
  • [13:28] “I gave up cigars 16 years ago. But the damage was done.”

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The Solitude of Aging & Reflections on Relationships

• Competitiveness Now Turned Inward:

  • No longer seeks to compete with others, only himself.
  • [16:10] “Whatever I do, I’m competitive, so I compete with myself. I don’t necessarily have to compete with anybody else.”

• Comfort with Solitude:

  • Finds fulfillment in daily routines and exercise and has little desire for new friendships or romance.
  • [16:49] “As you go through the years of your life, you change, you drop people from your circle and I’m pretty much, these days, I’m pretty much a loner.”

• Estranged Son & Parenting Heartbreak:

  • Painful recounting of losing touch with his adult son after a divorce; describes years of one-sided attempts at contact, ultimately stopping to allow his son agency.
  • [17:20] “It feels like nothing, but it used to hurt me. But as time passes by, the bond gets broken.”
  • [18:37] “I just wrote another email to him and I said... I’m always going to be your dad. I’m going to use this as my last contact with you because you failed to reply to me.”

• Acceptance and Letting Go:

  • Resigned to the reality that he can’t, and won’t, force a relationship; reflects on missed connections and the burdens his son may one day face.
  • [43:13] “What I used to worry about, I don’t now because he’s 26 years old. ... What used to scare me was that... he gets to 40 years old, I’m no longer here, now he’s mature enough to think I should have got in touch with my dad while he was alive.”

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On Love, Sex, and Intimacy

• Shifting Attitudes:

  • No longer interested in romantic relationships; sexual needs are self-contained.
  • [20:07] “Relationships. Yeah. That was the last serious relationship I had... Every time it got to the point of, I want something more now, and I said, sorry, I can’t go past that point. But that’s all right.”

• Candid Humor about Sex:

  • Wryly discusses masturbation and detaching sex from emotion in later years.
  • [20:47] “I’ve got calluses on my right hand, and I just wipe it on the curtains and turn over and go to sleep.”
  • [21:10] “My willy has got me into a lot of trouble over the years. And I’m not gonna go down that route again.”

• History of Promiscuity:

  • Details intense periods of sexual activity with older and younger partners; proud and forthright about his past.
  • [23:11] “Many [one-night stands]. I can’t even tell you, Tom.”
  • [27:12] “I’d finish up and grab a granny. But I would always come away with something. So the oldest person that I had sex with, she was 69. I was 16 years old.”

• Shift Away From Both Youth and Age:

  • Admits past attraction to older women, but now feels no interest in partners older than 55—or significantly younger.
  • [28:50] “55 upwards. It’s just. It’s just no go.”

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On Loss and Grief

• Family Deaths and Rituals:

  • Navigates complex emotions around his mother’s and brother’s deaths; finds comfort in nightly prayers over their urns.
  • [38:20] “I say a prayer over the urn every night. But I include my brother and my sister in law... it’s not a long prayer. I just say, God bless. Wrap your arms around them and that’s it... I do it every night.”

• Reconciliation Before Death:

  • Made peace with a brother before the brother’s illness and death, a source of great relief.
  • [32:08] “And I didn’t make up with him when I knew he was ill. We made up before he became ill, which I’m just so happy about.”

• Death's Impact:

  • Reminds Tom that the most profound loss is the gradual disappearance of energy with age, not individual events.
  • [39:39] “You think you’re bulletproof, but you’re really not. But continue thinking you are bulletproof because that’s the appropriate thing to think at your age.”

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On Mortality and Perspective

• Surviving Health Scares:

  • Survived triple heart bypass and a heart attack while exercising.
  • [40:05] “Triple heart bypass. I had a heart attack two years ago while I was doing my pull ups.”

• Philosophy on Aging:

  • Accepts aging with equanimity; prefers not to dwell on predictions or expectations.
  • [38:55] “Don’t try and predict anything, Tom. I’ll let it just happen. ... I don’t make a fuss about anything. I don’t get excited about anything and I don’t get too down about anything.”
  • [39:21] “I’d much rather be 20 years younger because I haven’t got that exuberance and the energy that I used to have.”

• Advice to the Young:

  • [39:39] “You think you’re bulletproof, but you’re really not. But continue thinking you are bulletproof because that’s the appropriate thing to think at your age.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Fasting and Extremes:

  • [02:16] Guest: “I once did 23 days on salt and water. Truthfully.”
  • [03:35] Guest: “99% of people graze all day, they don’t appreciate the food.”

• On Letting Go of Friendships and Past Selves:

  • [06:49] Guest: “A lot of them aren’t your friends. But you only find that out later on as you go through life.”

• On Solitude and Self-Knowledge:

  • [21:27] Guest: “I know me and I don’t need anybody. And I’m happy when I get home and I shut the door and I’m away from everything. I’m quite happy.”

• On the Arc of Life:

  • [30:04] Guest: “So I’ve gone from one extreme...to the other extreme where I don’t do it anymore. Isn’t it weird?”

• On Death and Ritual:

  • [38:20] Guest: “I say a prayer over the urn every night...I do it every night.”

• On Youth and Aging:

  • [39:39] Guest: “You think you’re bulletproof, but you’re really not. But continue thinking you are bulletproof because that’s the appropriate thing to think at your age.”

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Noteworthy Timestamps

• Favorite day of the week, fasting regimen: [01:11–02:33]
• Return to Sheffield & adaptation: [03:35–04:54]
• Bodybuilding career recount: [07:30–12:21]
• Sexual history and blunt disclosures: [21:10–30:04]
• Estrangement from son & approach to relationships: [17:10–20:47, 43:05–44:26]
• Making peace with loss (brother, mother): [31:38–38:50]
• Advice to youth & philosophy on life: [39:29–40:58]

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Tone and Style

Throughout, the conversation is marked by Tom’s gentle, sometimes playful curiosity and the guest’s frank, occasionally raw honesty. The guest’s willingness to publicly dissect not only his triumphs but also his disappointments, regrets, and misadventures injects the episode with both poignancy and humor.

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Conclusion

This episode stands as a testament to the honesty and depth that can surface between two strangers given a bench and half an hour. Through candid reflection and darkly humorous storytelling, Tom’s guest navigates the extreme ends of life—with wit, self-awareness, and, ultimately, a hard-won sense of peace.

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[45:31] Final words:
Tom: “What are you going to do next?”
Guest: “I’m gonna ride home on my bicycle and enjoy the view and have my dinner.”

Transcript

[A]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Fantastic. Well, so the way this works, everyone gets the same start question and same end question, and then the middle bit is just what happens. The magic of the middle.

[B]

And what do you do with it?

[A]

Well, it just becomes a podcast. It's where people listen to podcasts. It's called Strangers on a Bench.

[B]

Strangers on a Bench. And I'm on the bench.

[A]

You're famous. If you weren't before, you are now. Okay, first question. You ready?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you have a favorite day of the week?

[B]

Not necessarily. I'm retired now. I used to like Fridays a lot, but today they all clump into one.

[A]

They're fused into one.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, well, let's pick a random day. Let's pick tomorrow.

[B]

Tuesday.

[A]

Tuesday. What is your idea of the ideal Tuesday? Lived on the Earth.

[B]

I wouldn't do anything different than I do right now. Currently, I've just moved back to Sheffield after being in Jersey for 40 years.

[A]

44. 0.

[B]

40 years. Yeah. I just moved back on Friday.

[A]

Oh, welcome back.

[B]

Thank you, Tom. But anyway, I'm getting away. I digress. So Tuesday I would get up.

[A]

What time are we getting up?

[B]

Getting up? About 8. And then I'll shower and then I'll. I don't eat in the morning. I only eat at 5:30. I only eat once a day, Tom. How about that?

[A]

How about that?

[B]

How about that?

[A]

How about that? Why do you do that?

[B]

It's just a fasting. It's just. It's good for your body to be without food for a certain amount of hours a day. I'll shock you. I once did 23 days on salt and water. Truthfully.

[A]

When was that, though?

[B]

I was trying to fix an elf problem and so I went to extremes, and when I go to extremes, I can really do it. Crikey. And it didn't fix the elf problem.

[A]

Did you ever fix this health problem?

[B]

No, no, but it's no big deal. I can. I can manage it, you know. Anyway, so I get up and then I'll.

[A]

So you're not eating?

[B]

So I'm not eating. I just had a coffee and I'll get out on my bike and straight out. Straight out on the bike. Do my training session on the bars. I did some business in town today, which I'll probably Do most days deals? No. Nothing dramatic as that. No. And it's sort of afternoonish now and I'll head back and I'll just take me time and I'll look forward to my meal because, of course, I look forward to my meal every day.

[A]

Of course you do, because you've got to wait a long time for it.

[B]

Yeah. At 5:30 when I'm cooking it, then I'm thinking I could eat. Now you appreciate food a lot more, if you think about it. 99% of people graze all day, they don't appreciate the food. It's 12 o', clock, lunchtime, it's time to eat. It's 3 o', clock, it's time for a snack. It's 5 o', clock, it's time for me tea time.

[A]

Do you feel like walking past some of these people here and say, grow up?

[B]

Are you really that hungry?

[A]

12 o', clock, 3 o'. Clock. Come on. Once a day, that's all you need. Salt and water, salt and water, salt and water.

[B]

That'll sort you out.

[A]

So you've moved.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Do you feel like you're gonna unleash a new part of yourself or are you coming back to an old self?

[B]

Not an old self. I'm one of them people that don't. I don't get excited too much about things. I sort of take it in my stride. I was a bit apprehensive before I left Jersey, when the crunch time came to leave, and then I arrived here and I thought, what was there to worry about? There's nothing to worry about.

[A]

That's like life, isn't it?

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Catastrophize everything and then you actually do it.

[B]

You build it up to something it's not. And I got here and I thought, no, no, I enjoy where I live. I've moved back to where I grew up. It's my old stomping ground and I'm familiar with it all, you know.

[A]

What have you left behind in Jersey?

[B]

Just memories, friends. But the world's a small place now with social media, cars and whatnot. Social media, you know. Of course, when I moved to Australia, you were letter writing, but not a lot.

[A]

What's your handwriting like?

[B]

Not very good. Tom. How's yours?

[A]

Yeah, Also not great.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Kind of sexy.

[B]

It's weird, isn't it? Yeah, I'm good. No, I'm a great speller. The shape of the letters aren't that good. I don't know why.

[A]

Sorry. To work on.

[B]

Yeah. If I ain't got it now at 66. I'm never gonna get it.

[A]

Tom, who would you write a letter to if you had to write a letter to someone?

[B]

I'd say, well, maybe me mum and me brother who passed. Yeah.

[A]

What is your mum like?

[B]

Oh, so humorous and loving and such a sense of humor. So. She originated from Naples, Italy. So did my dad. My dad's died as well.

[A]

You're an orphan?

[B]

I am, yeah. I am, Tom, yeah. Correct.

[A]

How's that?

[B]

It's all right. Things change and you'll find this, Tom, as the years pass by, there's different stages of your life. You know, when you're younger and you're probably at this stage now where you're very outgoing, you think you've got a lot of friends, but a lot of them aren't your friends. But you only find that out later on as you go through life.

[A]

Where do they all go then?

[B]

They're still there, but they get subtly dropped from my circle.

[A]

Hang on, are you dropping them or are they dropping you?

[B]

Looking back, I've mainly dropped them.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And if I get dropped, which I have a couple of times, I don't take that personally, you know, you can sense it. Anyway, I was very, very outgoing. I had a wild time when I first got to Jersey and Australia and lived there for five years. Had a wild, absolutely wild time. But as years go by, you just quieten down. So I wouldn't dream of going out at night to a pub these days. It's not my idea of fun anymore, that type of thing.

[A]

What is your idea of fun now?

[B]

Go on the bike. Do my exercises daily.

[A]

You do look very strong in the arms.

[B]

Only body weight exercises. I do. I've stopped training in the gym, so. I used to be competitive.

[A]

Okay, you mean. What do you mean?

[B]

Competitive powerlifter, competitive bodybuilder. I was Mr. Channel island twice. One in 1986 and the last one I did was in 1993.

[A]

What happened to 1986?

[B]

I actually went to Australia. And then you've got to find a job and life got in the way. And then I came back and trained for two more years and then won it again. Then I retired.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

I got an invite to Mr. Britain, but I didn't want to take it that far.

[A]

Because you were scared of winning.

[B]

It's a good one, that job. I wouldn't have won. Oh, I wouldn't have won. Being realistic, the best I would have got back in 93, 94, I could have edged into the top six.

[A]

That's pretty good.

[B]

Pretty good.

[A]

Not a Medal. But it's.

[B]

But it's. I have to compete to win. And I knew that I had no chance of winning unless I did certain things and I wasn't prepared to do it.

[A]

Like what?

[B]

Just taking certain things, you know, strong supplements.

[A]

Got it. Why wouldn't you go there?

[B]

Well, because it would have been potentially damaging to my health with what I would have had to take.

[A]

I see. So in a way, finishing six would have been a win.

[B]

It would have, but I didn't want to. I'm extreme. When I was growing up, I'm extreme. For instance, the 23 day fast, that's extreme. In fact, when I've mentioned it before to people, their reaction is, no, you didn't.

[A]

You definitely did.

[B]

I know I did. Yeah, I know, I know I did.

[A]

I've met you now. You definitely did it. So which one would you rather talk about?

[B]

1993.

[A]

It was a better one.

[B]

I was on fire.

[A]

Okay, so take me through that occasion. That day.

[B]

You have to appear twice. One in the morning is what they call the pre judging. So you turn up at the venue.

[A]

Right.

[B]

The public can attend if they want, but this is solely really for just the judge. The judges are there, you're judged, you're not told the result, You've done your business, you've gone through your routine.

[A]

Can we talk about the routine?

[B]

The routine. The routine. You choreograph yourself.

[A]

Okay. To music.

[B]

To music.

[A]

What did you choose?

[B]

War.

[A]

What is it good for? Absolutely nothing.

[B]

Eh?

[A]

That one.

[B]

Yes. It was just suited.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, it just suited me. And I was on fire. I've got to say. I was on fire.

[A]

Not literally.

[B]

And not literally.

[A]

That wasn't part of the act.

[B]

No.

[A]

So there's there a dance. So is there like a dart, like a dance, or you just.

[B]

No, it's a choreograph of movement. It's not a dance. I'm not gonna dance.

[A]

Well, it's a dance of sorts.

[B]

So it's sort of. Sort of an artistic.

[A]

You obviously got to show the muscle.

[B]

You show the muscle. And so if you've dieted correctly, you don't have to squeeze too much. If you haven't dieted correctly, you're not gonna hide anything in front of all those people in a thong. You know what I mean? You're not gonna hide anything. So if you haven't dieted correctly, it's on you.

[A]

I see.

[B]

And what happens is people who haven't, they try and squeeze to get everything out. You're not gonna show anything again, it's.

[A]

Like life, isn't it? You squeeze it too hard, it doesn't work.

[B]

Doesn't work. And so then you go home, you relax. I have a sleep. I only eat at lunchtime. I want to be empty for the evening show for all the people who come to watch. If you have too much food, you'll blur your abdominals. And so what you do before the show, you sort of do high rep exercise to pump the muscle up as much as you can. And then you go out on stage, the place is jumping, it's full to the rafters. And then you get the lower classes first until you come up to the heavier weight classes. I was the heavier weight class. I was a light heavyweight at the time. And then what they do is they take a winner out of each category, then you appear back on stage with all the other class winners and then they announce an overall winner.

[A]

And were you that?

[B]

Yeah, I was the old.

[A]

So not only did you win your category, you won out of everybody.

[B]

But it's not something that. If I had my time again, I wouldn't do it.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah, I wouldn't do it.

[A]

Why?

[B]

I would have stuck with another sport. I don't like that look any longer. Don't like it at all. It's all bloaty and false and fake. I don't like it. I prefer the build I've got now, a more athletic look, more slimmed down.

[A]

Do you remember how you celebrated your win?

[B]

Yeah. We go out that night because you've been only eating particular foods for the last six months or so. We'd go out that night and have whatever you wanted to eat and especially your desserts, your ice cream. And I used to smoke cigars. The guy that I was training, who was in a junior class, he bought me this great big Havana cigar for after our meal and that, you know. But I was a very prolific cigar smoker and it damaged my circulation. I was prolific in as much as 20 cigars a day. And I was taking it down like a spliff. And that was the health problem that I was trying to fix.

[A]

Did you just give up cigars, though? Is that.

[B]

Oh, I gave up cigars 16 years ago.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[B]

Oh, no. But the damage was done.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[B]

So it damaged my circulation, especially in my legs. And so this is why I've got an electric bike, you see.

[A]

I see, yeah. Can I ask you a slightly funny question about bodybuilding stuff?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you do? I mean, obviously there's a lot of focus on the body, right.

[B]

You Know, you're focusing too much on the bodybuilding because it's not important to me anymore.

[A]

But I don't want to. Oh, no, sorry. I just have one more question.

[B]

Go on then. Go on then.

[A]

But you're in a thong.

[B]

I said that joke.

[A]

Oh, but it isn't.

[B]

Oh, yeah, it isn't a thong. I mean, it's not the string that goes up your back side.

[A]

Okay, okay.

[B]

It is a very brief pair of trunks. Yeah.

[A]

But is there anything you have to do to your nether regions, you know. You know, if you. Are you worried about your. Your willy, do you know what I mean? Because you've kind of. That can't look like a kind of muscle.

[B]

How do you mean, am I worried about it? You have to be more specific.

[A]

No. Okay, well, look, okay, that's. How do I say this? So, like, you know, you gotta be honest, like.

[B]

I am.

[A]

No. Okay, here we go.

[B]

Go on.

[A]

Okay, I'll just.

[B]

Does it look too small beneath your trunk?

[A]

No, I'm just saying you're building up every aspect of your body.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You can't really do that, so.

[B]

Or to Willie.

[A]

So what do you, you know, do you. What do you do about that? No, no.

[B]

I see. Do you enhance it in any way?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Is that what you mean, like the Chippendale?

[A]

Yeah. Is that a fair question?

[B]

It's fair question and it's a good question.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

And absolutely I never did. And I don't know anybody who ever did anything like that. These male strippers, actually, I've heard what they do is they get a semi erection in the changing rooms and then they put something like an elasticated thing around the base of their willy to keep the blood in their willy. So when they're in their trunks, it looks like they're well endowed.

[A]

But you didn't do that. Well, no one did that.

[B]

I've never heard anybody, any bodybuilder who do that. No. Think about this, Tom. If you did something like that, the emphasis wouldn't be on your body.

[A]

No, that is true.

[B]

Because you're stood in the. In front of all those people and the judges. The last thing you want is people staring at your dick.

[A]

Good point. You're so right. So after all that, you know, surely that competitive edge didn't go anywhere. You know, where did it go after that? Where did you put it?

[B]

Whatever I do, I'm competitive, so I compete with myself. I don't necessarily have to compete with anybody else.

[A]

So was that the last time you competed with other people?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

And Then after that, it's just yourself.

[B]

So, like, when I train on a daily basis, I'm always trying to push myself and I just try and do a few more reps and I'm competitive that way.

[A]

If someone comes and does it next to you, do you kind of want to do it no more?

[B]

I wouldn't do that.

[A]

I wouldn't do that.

[B]

In fact, I've just met some new people today and we were having just a general chit chat while we were all exercising. I wasn't trying. No. I don't make friends very easily.

[A]

Don't you? Why? It's like a friendly person.

[B]

It's like I said, as you go through the years of your life, you change, you drop people from your circle and I'm pretty much, these days, I'm pretty much a loner.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's no one you want to be in your circle. That's not.

[B]

Not really. I mean, I've got a couple of friends here, but I don't want them round at my house.

[A]

What about a lover?

[B]

I've. Stephen stopped with that now.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You retired?

[B]

Retired. I've got a son at 26 years old somewhere. Where do you go? Somewhere we're not in touch.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

It's his choice, not mine. How's that feel now? It feels like nothing, but it used to hurt me. But as time passes by, the bond gets broken.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

For instance, people will say, oh, you never know. When he's matured in his mind, he'll come back. You miss the point. It doesn't bother me. If that's his choice, then he's got to live with it. I used to contact him twice a year. I didn't want to bombard him with anything, you know, and force him. So I used to contact him on his birthday and Christmas, but I never used to get a reply. So after the years had gone by, on his 19th birthday, I just wrote another email to him and I said, look, I wish you a happy birthday. I'm always going to be your dad. I'm going to use this as my last contact with you because you failed to reply to me. That's all right. I just want you to know that here I am, you can contact me anytime you want, and I wish you all the best and I love you. And that was the last contact when he was 19.

[A]

Difficult question, obviously, but do you have any read on why he felt the way he feels?

[B]

Well, I suppose I'm only guessing, but I suppose because me and his mother split up, our breakup was A little acrimonious. And he went to live with his mother. We were together in Jersey. She went back to Ireland. And so I'm assuming he was demonstrating loyalty to his mother by not contacting me.

[A]

Is there anything at all that you regret of that episode? I mean, is there anything you look back on? If I'd done that, maybe he would.

[B]

There's nothing. There's nothing I could have done that. Because I used to go and see him. I used to take trips over to Ireland and I used to see him till he was six years old being civil with the mother. But the more time we spent with each other or talked with each other on the phone, it would escalate into arguments, you know, and so it's just life. That's all it is. There's no right and wrong, just the.

[A]

Way the cards have fallen.

[B]

Yeah. It's just, you know, life's not fair. But we know that. We already know that. You can't fix everything.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Can't fix everything.

[A]

What do you think? I mean, so you say the bond's slowly being broken, but what do you think it's done to you as a person generally? You know, does it put you off anything in particular going forward?

[B]

Relationships. Yeah. Yeah. That was the last serious relationship I had. I've had relationships since then, but every time it got to the point of, I want something more now, and I said, sorry, I can't go past that point. But that's all right.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's not a bad thing.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Because you'll. You'll. You'll fully understand what I'm talking about in 20 years time. You won't yet. You won't yet, but you will.

[A]

So. So you still make love?

[B]

No, no, not, Not.

[A]

You got off sex as well?

[B]

No, I've not gotten offsets. I've still got a very high libido.

[A]

Fantastic.

[B]

But now, how do you achieve that? Well, I just. I've got calluses on my right hand, and I just wipe it on the curtains and turn over and go to sleep. And there's no emotion involved. You see, I can't get emotionally involved with anybody. This has got me into a lot of trouble over the years.

[A]

You're pointing at something.

[B]

My willy. My willy has got me into a lot of trouble over the years. And. And I'm not gonna go down that route again.

[A]

What about the heart, though? Does the heart need anything?

[B]

No.

[A]

No. No. Okay.

[B]

No, I'm content.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You see, you know when people say, you know, you must have somebody. No, that's Fair. Most people do. I know me and I don't need anybody. And I'm happy when I get home and I shut the door and I'm away from everything. I'm quite happy. And I've been like that for forever. No, 20 years. For the last 20 years.

[A]

But before that.

[B]

But before that I was all over the place.

[A]

Before that you felt you did need someone?

[B]

Yes. Well, not that I needed somebody. I wanted it because it came with regular sex and I've had many. It's not because I'm being a big head. I've lived a lot of years. I've had very many, many one night stand. But I've lived with four women. Not all at once, Tom, but I've lived with four women and I'm no good at it.

[A]

Why don't you think you're good at it?

[B]

I've got no idea. Maybe I choose the wrong person. Maybe I was attracted to the conflict. I don't know. I don't really know. I'm trying to be my own psychiatrist.

[A]

Here, but I mean, another suggestion is you don't have to live with someone.

[B]

No. You know, I've got a friend in Jersey who's been married for about 15 years and never thought of this. And they've never lived together?

[A]

No.

[B]

So see, that would probably work.

[A]

There you go. That would be provided solution. Yeah, you go find someone this afternoon. It's gonna be ok. You say you had a lot of one night stands?

[B]

Many. Many. I can't even tell you. I can't even tell you, Tom.

[A]

What do you mean prolific? In what era was in the bodybuilding era?

[B]

Well, through that era as well. So I'd say from when I was 15. I lost my virginity at 13.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

I loved it so much.

[A]

So 13, that's pretty young.

[B]

13. Very young. I loved it so much that I just had to do it again and again and again. And so I was pretty good. I was never frightened of rejection.

[A]

Okay, so did that mean you were good at seducing?

[B]

I was good at talking to women and that's it. And so while I was in Sheffield, then when I left Sheffield, I went to Newquay. I was prolific down there on that scene. And then from Newquay I went to Jersey and I was even more prolific in Jersey. And then I went to Australia for five years and I was even more. I was with somebody then I was, I was living with somebody there.

[A]

You weren't so prolific in Australia.

[B]

I. I was faithful to the person I was living with, but I always thought of not being faithful. Yeah, but I didn't.

[A]

Do you blame that on the. Just your rampant sessions beforehand? It's kind of in you to move around.

[B]

It's there to move around. Yeah.

[A]

You know. So you've had lots of sex your life?

[B]

Yeah, lots.

[A]

What have you learned?

[B]

Yeah, I enjoy it. I enjoy it very much.

[A]

Do you think people have enough sex?

[B]

I bet you married people don't have enough sex. What do you reckon, Tom? Are you married, Tom?

[A]

I'm not.

[B]

You get very few marriages where they still look like they're in the courtship period.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

My brother who died.

[A]

When did he die?

[B]

2018. Cancer. My brother who died. This is amazing. He was married to this lady. They first met when they were kids, 12 and 13. So they had a relationship when they were that young.

[A]

Right.

[B]

As they grew, work took them in different directions. They both married other people and in middle to late age, they met up again while they were both still married. They found each other on some sort of social media and they each left their respective partners, got back together, married. She's died as well. She died. She only died not even four months ago. Cancer. But I've never seen anybody. I was so, like, how do you get that? How do you find the perfect person? They were so in love with each other and even though they'd been married for 10 or 12 years, they'd still hold hands and they'd still put their arms around each other and it was like, I can't always that possible after this long. And that's how it was.

[A]

How old was the person you had sex with when you were 13?

[B]

She was 13.

[A]

So can you go and talk to her?

[B]

I couldn't go out with an old woman, Tom. Really? No.

[A]

What does that mean?

[B]

No, I just.

[A]

What is an old. What do you mean he couldn't do it?

[B]

I just couldn't do it. I wouldn't rise to the occasion. Tom, you need some. Some attractive stimulation. Okay.

[A]

Okay, so what? Let's. So you're 66.

[B]

66.

[A]

What is an old woman for you? This is a bit tough on women.

[B]

55 upwards. It's just. It's just no go. You can't do that.

[A]

Well, you've never done it.

[B]

No, no.

[A]

Who's the oldest person you've seen with?

[B]

Oh, when I was a kid, I used to crave older women. I used to go to a place down at the Bottom of the Moor. You won't remember. Remember it. You're too young. It was called Tiffany's and it was Grab a Granny Night. It Was.

[A]

Right, okay. What's that mean?

[B]

So it's where the older people used to go.

[A]

Sorry, but you said it's grab a granny night.

[B]

Well, that's what it was referred to.

[A]

Oh, I see, right.

[B]

It was referred to as grab a granny because there were always older women in there. See, a lot of my mates, we'd get tanked up on London Road and in town and they'd go to a normal nightclub of appropriate age. I'd finish up and grab a granny. But I would always come away with something. So the oldest person that I had sex with, she was 69. I was 16 years old. But it was such a perverse. Didn't matter what she looked like, the fact that she was much older and how they used to dress, you know, in the long. The long evening dresses and they'd more often than not have the stockings and suspenders on. It was just really attractive to me. I'd be erect within seconds.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. And so when I was, I'd say 15 to 30. I loved to have sex with older women. Okay. Much older women.

[A]

So you've gone the other way now. Now you won't do that now.

[B]

I won't do that. But I won't go young either. So I'm talking about, I don't know, attractive to me, attractive to look at is 20 to 30, but it's unrealistic, you know what I mean? Because I'm 66. But to possibly have sex with somebody, you really are talking 30 to 45. 50. That's about the age group that I'd choose.

[A]

So you're not going back up to 69? That was a 20 year old?

[B]

Oh, no, no, no.

[A]

Did he do that many times?

[B]

He did that many times, yeah, many times.

[A]

So it was a thing.

[B]

And the thing was when I was working in Jersey, I was. One of my employments was I was a head barman in a hotel. So you had different guests every week. So the married couple with their kids and. Cause they're on holiday. The husband would get drunk at the bar and I know how much he's had. And a lot of the times the husband would go to bed and I would have sex with his wife behind the bar when I was locked up. Many times that happened.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Yeah. And a lot of them kept in touch with me when they went home. It was crazy. When I say I was wild, I was fucking wild. And I'd see them at breakfast the next day. Then I'm thinking, Jesus, you poor sod. I'd been born in your Missus. Do you believe me?

[A]

Tom, I'm not bull tuned.

[B]

I believe you.

[A]

I've not.

[B]

Bullshit.

[A]

I gotta say. I believe you.

[B]

So I've gone from one extreme.

[A]

You've done the.

[B]

To the. To the other extreme where I don't do it anymore. Isn't it weird?

[A]

And you've done so much of it. Yeah, yeah.

[B]

I've had enough now. Thank you. This is wild, this. I've come back from Jersey and I'm having this interview here. Pretty good, actually.

[A]

It's great.

[B]

It's good.

[A]

You're good at it.

[B]

Yeah. Can you tell you're going to learn a lot from different people's experiences? I bet you have already.

[A]

I really have. I've learned so much. Really. It's an honor.

[B]

People, honestly, they are with you.

[A]

Yeah. I'm only really interested in the honest ones.

[B]

Yeah, but how do you know? Like for instance, how do you know, make it up. If. If they're bullshitting you, will you end and you know. Because he can sense it when somebody's bullshitting you, will you end the interview early?

[A]

Yeah. I've not had anyone that I sense was. Was telling fibs.

[B]

All right. For instance, this interview. You can't play this whole interview. Edit it, surely.

[A]

For sure.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Someone called Rose edits it.

[B]

All right. That's a lot of hard work for her. Is it, Edit? No, it's a lot of hard work.

[A]

It is. No, it's really hard. It's a. It's a really difficult.

[B]

When I'm editing. I've got a health food channel and I've got a music covers channel.

[A]

Oh, music covers.

[B]

Music covers.

[A]

Can you combine the two? Sing about the healthy.

[B]

Yeah. Singing in the kitchen.

[A]

What? Can you tell me what the experience of your brother dying was like for you? Only brother?

[B]

No, I've got. I had. I had three. I've got two now.

[A]

Okay. Oh, so you wanted four.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What. What number are you?

[B]

Three. So next to youngest.

[A]

The genius role.

[B]

That's all the fair children are my brother who died. I won't go into that because it'll get too emotional. For years I didn't get on with him.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I didn't make up with him when I knew he was ill. We made up before he became ill, which I'm just so happy about.

[A]

That's really good. Because he couldn't say if it would.

[B]

Have been after he got ill. It might look like you only made up with him because he had cancer. Sure.

[A]

How did you make up? How did that happen?

[B]

We just started talking Again. And, you know, he invited me around for dinner with his wife. And there was my younger brother there who'd come over from America, and a couple of friends and we, you know, we just. Nothing was said. It wasn't a big makeup thing. It was just we were talking as if we never fell out before. I think that's the best way.

[A]

What changed in you after he died? Did you start living any differently after he died?

[B]

I don't think so. I think my mother died two years before that. Was the first dead person I'd ever seen in my life. Can you believe that? Have you ever seen a dead person, Tom? I'd gone 50 odd years without seeing a dead person. And then my mother died while I was there. It was quite prophetic, really. This particular night when I was home, I said to my brother who was in the house, he was her carer, and I said to him, I don't know. I said, I don't think she's gonna make it through. Just give me a sec. Anyway, he must have got worried because he phoned my other brother and his wife, the. The couple who died unbeknownst to me. And all sudden they were at the door and I was cooking dinner. So the bell went and answered and I said, what are you doing here at this time? Because this was like 9 o' clock at night. Very unusual for them to visit at that time. And so they came because of what I'd said. They didn't want to not say their goodbyes and so that's what they did.

[A]

So you all got a chance to be there.

[B]

Yeah. And that night she. She passed and because I kept her bedroom door open, I was staying in the next bedroom. Kept my door open, but I could hear the breathing, you know, that breathing. I could hear it. And then I must have dropped off because I'd been up and down several times that night to comfort her. But she was just coming in and out of consciousness. And I woke up with a start at about 8:00'. Clock. I couldn't hear anything, I was so scared. I just peeked round, I could see she was dead. And stupidly, but not stupidly, the first thought was to go in and give her some chest compression. And I just went in and I hit her twice on the chest with the heel of my hand. And I thought, what are you doing? You know. And she was, you know, she was dead. She looked peaceful, though. So. Have you lost a pairing?

[A]

I have.

[B]

So, you know.

[A]

Yeah. So saying goodbye to your brother really hard, I guess.

[B]

Yeah, very hard, yeah. But I did say goodbye to him right there at his bedside while he was awake and conscious. But according to him, he wasn't dying really. He was so adamant. What's the word? He was so in denial. That's not the word. I can't think of the word just now. It was obstinate. It was so. I remember saying one thing to him. What I told you about his relationship with his wife. I said, I've never seen anything like it. And you know, Lord, I'm never going to have that. I'm never going to have it. You're just. Both of you are just so lucky. And he just said, and it's not over yet. I says, no, I know. And. And he was. He was. He died the next day.

[A]

Maybe you talk about the afterlife.

[B]

I don't think so. He wasn't that way. He wasn't that way. He wasn't religious.

[A]

Do you ever wonder about your dying scenario? What you would like it to be or not?

[B]

No, just. Just peaceful. And I don't want a fuss making. I don't want people to be around and feeling sorry for me. Would you like that?

[A]

No.

[B]

If people want to celebrate me a little afterwards, well, that's not my business, is it? But no, I want them to come and take me. Cremate me. Not sure about the ashes yet.

[A]

Where are we scattering them?

[B]

I don't know. I mean, I've got my mom and dad at home.

[A]

I do.

[B]

In. In an urn? Yeah.

[A]

What's it like having them in the house?

[B]

Great.

[A]

Do you kind of acknowledge it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Talk to them?

[B]

Yeah. Every night before I go to bed.

[A]

You talk to them?

[B]

I say a prayer over the urn every night. But I include my brother and my sister in law and my other sister in law, whom my brother's first wife, she died of cancer as well. So I talk to. I just say, it's not a long prayer. I just say, God bless. Wrap your arms around them and that's it. It's just simple. I do it every night.

[A]

It's become a ritual.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So what's going to come next in this next chapter? Is anything going to emerge?

[B]

Don't try and predict anything, Tom. I'll let it just happen. I'll let it just happen. And like I say, I don't make a fuss about anything. I don't get excited about anything and I don't get too down about anything. I sort of stay on an even keel and it served me well over the years.

[A]

What is it like being 66? Anything good about it?

[B]

Not really. I'd much rather be 20 years younger because I haven't got that exuberance and the energy that I used to have.

[A]

Let's imagine, you know, someone who's listening to this who's 20 years old. What would you say to them about their youth?

[B]

You think you're bulletproof, but you're really not. But continue thinking you are bulletproof because that's the appropriate thing to think at your age. You find out as you get older that you're not. You just. And that's a bit of a disappointment.

[A]

What was your bullet?

[B]

My bullet? I suppose just losing that energy. I had a couple of serious operations and to get back to sort of normal life. Took quite a long while and never thought I'd get the energy that I've got now. I had a triple heart bypass. I had a heart attack two years ago while I was doing my pull ups.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

And I dropped. I didn't have any pain, but I had this massive loss of breath and I thought I was going to go right there and I just didn't even know I'd had an heart attack. It was 10 hours later that I went to the hospital.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

It's things like that. F sake, where did that come from? And I was doing a brilliant set of pull ups. It was great. It was half seven in the morning and all of a sudden I found myself on my knees.

[A]

You know, that's what life can. I'm going to ask you two, three more questions. I'm going to leave you alone.

[B]

Yeah, go. I'm going to get off on me bike. Don't go too deep down.

[A]

Quite a lot of that, haven't we?

[B]

Yeah. Too deep, actually. I never thought I'd go that deep with a stranger.

[A]

Well, I'm glad you have. Happiest day of your life. Can you think about what it was.

[B]

Yeah. When my son was born.

[A]

Can you remember that day?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

Tell me.

[B]

I mean, I was there when he was born and you just can't believe that, you know, this human being has just come into the world and you're completely responsible for his well being and, and his, his care and, and it's such a scary thought. Have you got children?

[A]

I do.

[B]

Ah. So you know.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know how scary it is that first time. Oh, my God. I. I was thinking, how am I gonna look after this, this little human? How am I gonna manage? But you do, don't you? You just do. How many have you got?

[A]

Two.

[B]

Ah, good for you.

[A]

Do you think you might have more somewhere. Given the fact you've done quite a lot.

[B]

I don't know and I don't want to know.

[A]

Can I ask you a difficult question?

[B]

And you asked me difficult questions already, Tom. You're getting a bit greedy there, Stone, aren't you?

[A]

I am getting a bit greedy. Do you ever wonder if there's anything more you can do to find a way to patch up with this? As in, like you kind of left him be?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, part of me just wonders, you know, what happens if you. If you find him and you turn up somewhere. You ever tempted to do that?

[B]

For me to turn up and.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Present myself to him? I could never do that. That would be.

[A]

They make it work.

[B]

No, it wouldn't be for me. That scare the pants off him. That'd be such a. What I'm. Listen, I'll say this about it. What I used to worry about, I don't now because he's 26 years old and he should. He should have his own mind to. To see what sort of man I am. Find out for himself. What used to scare me was that he's. What? Whatever is going through his mind, his stubbornness that he won't communicate with me, that he gets to 40 years old, I'm no longer here now he's mature enough to think I should have got in touch with my dad while he was alive. Now he's got to carry that burden for the rest of his life. But I can't do any more. I can't. Because if I do, it's like I'm forcing myself on him.

[A]

Can you ever get in touch with.

[B]

With the mom? I tried. I tried. Wrote her two emails, in fact. I tried to use a little bit of levity. And. And what I did was I said, you know, have a look at this. This is one of my music covers. What do you reckon? Do you reckon the old man's got a bit of a voice on him and, you know, it just fell on deaf ear.

[A]

It was a song you said.

[B]

I can't remember.

[A]

What do you sing, by the way? We didn't. We didn't get to these covers.

[B]

I'm a big soul man, so my favorite artist of all time is Otis Redding. I've done a few of him. Couple of Northern Soul there. In fact, there's. On one of them, there's a backstory to Northern Soul, how it came to Sheffield, how it became a massive part of people's lives, and that's it.

[A]

Maybe a nice way to end this is. Can you do us a little bit of that song.

[B]

No, not with. Not without the music and stuff.

[A]

Well, listen, I thoroughly enjoyed.

[B]

I thoroughly enjoyed it as well. Tom, you're a lovely man.

[A]

Thank you so much for your time. Thank you for being honest and answering the questions. And you've lived a very exciting, interesting life.

[B]

And it's not over yet.

[A]

And it's not as my brother, over yet. There's one more question, though. So this is the question that everyone gets at the end. You ready? What are you going to do next?

[B]

I'm gonna ride home on my bicycle and enjoy the view and have my dinner.

[A]

One dinner a day. Yeah. Well, thank you so much.

[B]

Thanks, Tom. Come here. Lovely, lovely. Well done.

[A]

Beautiful.

[C]

I like my soul music. Oh, the sand.

[B]

Ray.

[C]

And I won some competitions for keeping in shape. Way back in my day But I look in the mirror now I look so tired I've lived a hundred different lives but how do I say without saying That I really miss you? I just wanna make this right? I know I got issues But I still wanna try and I'm praying Cause I really miss you I need you back in my life My love's unconditional but what? Sony old man was so wild I played a good game see I used to make your mom smile Love tons God it's a shame Cause I can't seem to reach it I'm stuck on the line but what if you miss me? When I've had my time? And how do I say without saying? That I really miss you? I just wanna make this right? I know I got issues But I still wanna try Now I'm praying Cause I really miss you I need you back in the light My love's unconditional but what.

[B]

Sa.