EPISODE 51: A Song For My Daughter

Summary

Podcast Summary: Strangers on a Bench

Episode 51: "A Song For My Daughter"

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Release Date: September 1, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this episode, Tom Rosenthal sits beside a stranger in a London park, inviting them into an intimate, anonymous conversation about parenthood, music, personal growth, and resilience. The guest, a single mother and musician, shares candid reflections on raising her nine-year-old daughter, navigating relationships, balancing artistic ambitions, and learning self-acceptance. The episode crescendos with a touching live rendition of a song the guest wrote for her daughter, encapsulating the love and challenges that define both her personal and creative worlds.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. On Fridays, Ideal Days, and Parenting

• Kickoff Question: Tom asks about the guest’s favorite day of the week.
  • Guest (B): "I'd say Friday... you've got the kind of working week behind you and you've got the possibilities of the weekend." (00:48)
  • As a self-employed person, "technically every day is Friday. Every day is Friday." (01:02)
• Ideal Friday includes simple joys: waking up naturally, bringing her daughter to school, enjoying a peaceful moment in a park.
  • "In an ideal world I would just wake up when I naturally want to wake up. Maybe do something like this, come to the park, sit on the bench, talk to somebody like you." (01:16)

2. Navigating Emotions and Growth

• The guest reflects on self-acceptance and the evolution of her emotional landscape.
  • "I don't kind of beat myself up for having emotions. Sometimes I'll feel down or sometimes I feel happy. And it's just, I just accept that that's how I'm feeling in that moment." (02:22)
  • "You get to a point where you're like, life doesn't need to be hard, does it? Life's too short." (02:46)
• Acknowledges that emotional struggles can fuel songwriting:
  • "Sometimes the angst that you get is good for writing songs... then try and get it out in a healthy way." (02:56)

3. Music, Motherhood, and Messy Cars

• Balancing parenthood and musical career: brings her daughter to gigs, values exposing her to creative environments.
  • "She just stood there at the side of the stage and watched the entire gig... I feel like I'm giving her a good education." (03:56)
  • They sing harmonies together, especially in the car (04:11).
• The realities of a musician-parent’s car: spills, gig shoes, and leftover gear.
  • “She spilled some chips on the floor the other day… slime on the seats from like a magazine... some shoes from a gig that I did...” (04:43)

4. Most Important Song: A Love Letter to Her Daughter

• Guest names the most important song she’s written: one for her daughter, who is featured on the recording.
  • "I wrote a song about my daughter... It's a lovely snapshot of this time." (06:16)
  • "As a songwriter... it was a love letter to my daughter." (06:30)

5. Single Motherhood: Struggles and Strength

• Unexpected journey into single motherhood: it's been challenging but made her more resilient.
  • "It teaches you patience... Like, I am a single mum and it wasn't what I expected, but I think it's made me stronger..." (06:48)
• Navigating co-parenting and family court.
  • "We were in the family court for a whole year... it was locked down, so it was all video, which was probably a blessing." (31:07)
  • "He put an emergency court application in and was like, said loads of horrible things... had to have social services..." (31:58)
  • Ultimately, she gains full custody, but emphasizes forgiveness for her daughter's sake:
    • "I just don't want to carry hatred anymore. It's not healthy. And... she loves him, and I never want to take that away." (33:26)

6. New Relationships and Healthy Love

• Guest describes meeting a new partner who is also a parent, resulting in better understanding and communication.
  • "He's a dad himself... his children are a big part of his life too, is really important to me. And communication is just brilliant as well." (09:42)
  • "We have hard conversations. Maybe even people who are married don't have... He doesn't give me any reasons for doubt." (10:24)
  • Lyrics of her new song reflect this:
    • "I really love the way you love me. You give me reason not to doubt how you feel about us. Never knew love could be this healthy communication." (11:05)

7. Roots, Upbringing, and Creative Heritage

• Family influences: "Dad's from Yorkshire, my mum's from Liverpool. They're both arty, creative types." (15:25)
• Upbringing blends northern “good heart with a bit of sarcasm, a bit of get up and go.” (15:39)
• Assures value of exposing her daughter to creative, adult environments, as her own parents did for her.
  • "They just used to bring me to stuff… even if you only get like bits of occasions as a kid... you soak it up." (17:34, 18:22)

8. Music Career Milestones and Performing

• Platinum-certified artist: "That was a song that got recorded in a small, tiny bedroom in Leeds, and then now it's four times platinum." (20:49)
• Keeps the plaque in her attic studio: “No, I like to look up at it and be like, magic can happen.” (21:19)
• Performance highs and lows: Wembley Arena nerves, awkward jazz gigs in pubs, singing at her daughter's school.
  • “I went to go sing in my daughter's school a couple of weeks ago. That was scarier... than 10,000 people.” (23:20)
  • “If anything goes wrong, it's all eyes on you. And people are like, you know...” (24:13)
• Family always supported her creative path:
  • "They see it as a profession and even if I'm not earning money, they don't judge me, which I'm really grateful for." (25:08)

9. Self-Reflection: Loneliness and Longing

• Despite outer success, sometimes feels invisible or overlooked:
  • “Maybe people don't check in on me as much as, yeah, maybe I'd appreciate a bit more like, are you okay?” (35:22)
  • Admits to bouts of loneliness when her daughter is away. (36:32)

10. Quirks, Home Life & The Infamous Boiler

• Describes her home as “smiling again,” after putting herself into it; finds joy in interior design.
  • "I feel like the house is smiling again because it wasn't looked after and I feel like I brought a smile back to it." (26:45)
• Weirdest item? A headless mannequin torso found by a skip. (28:03)
• Endures a comedic-tragic saga with an electric boiler installed by a Phil Mitchell lookalike; “The water since has been orange.” (29:31)
  • “You try and do your little bit for the planet and it just ends up, let the planet burn.” (30:23)

11. Live Performance: A Song for Her Daughter

• At Tom’s prompting, the guest sings lines from a new song over a beat sent from a San Diego producer.
  • "This is a song that a producer in San Diego sent me... it's kind of like a happy one." (38:36)
  • She later sings the chorus with palpable emotion:
    • “You give me reason not to down how you feel... every day I'm so grateful for everything...” (41:20)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On emotions and growth:
  “Whereas before I'd probably be like, oh my god, now I'm just like just thoughts and feelings. I'm fine, I'll probably feel different in 10 minutes.” (02:22)
• On motherhood & music:
  “She just stood there at the side of the stage and watched the entire gig. I feel like I'm giving her a good education... she wants to be a singer too.” (03:56)
• On supportive parenting:
  "They see it as a profession and even if I'm not earning money, they don't judge me..." (25:08)
• On collaborative love:
  “I really love the way you love me. You give me reason not to doubt how you feel about us. Never knew love could be this healthy communication.” (11:05)
• On loneliness:
  “Maybe people don't check in on me as much as… maybe I'd appreciate a bit more like, are you okay?” (35:22)
• On creative success:
  "That was a song that got recorded in a small, tiny bedroom in Leeds, and then now it's four times platinum." (20:49)
• On resilience:
  "I just don't want to carry hatred anymore. It's not healthy. And... she loves him, and I never want to take that away." (33:26)
• On the comedy of life:
  "She spilled some chips on the floor the other day... slime on the seats from like a magazine..." (04:43) "The water since has been orange." (29:31) "No, I like to look up at [my plaque] and be like, magic can happen." (21:19)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 00:48–02:00 – Favorite day, ideal Friday, and parental realities
• 02:12–03:10 – Managing emotions; songwriting as catharsis
• 03:56–04:21 – Bringing her daughter to gigs; family harmonies
• 06:16–06:41 – The most important song: about her daughter
• 07:23–08:26 – Becoming a single mum; co-parenting
• 09:42–11:15 – Finding healthy love and writing new songs
• 15:25–17:34 – Family roots, upbringing, and carrying forward traditions
• 20:29–21:19 – Platinum song, studio, and humble brags
• 23:20–24:41 – Performance anxieties, gig mishaps
• 29:02–30:36 – The orange boiler and green technology gone wrong
• 31:01–33:40 – Family court struggles, forgiveness, and moving forward
• 35:22–36:32 – On feeling invisible and experiences of loneliness
• 38:36–41:20 – Performing new song, chorus for her daughter

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Tone and Atmosphere

Conversation is warm, humorous, and open, marked by Tom’s gentle curiosity and the guest’s candid, sometimes self-deprecating, reflections. The mutual parental bond and musician’s perspective foster immediate intimacy and authenticity. The episode is honest about struggles, yet ever hopeful—a celebration of resilience, creativity, and love, both familial and romantic.

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Closing

Tom thanks the guest for her openness, authenticity, and song, ending on a note that celebrates both the joy and surreal unpredictability of life as a creative parent:

• Tom: “Honor and a privilege.” (40:31)

Final live performance of her song—raw, loving, poignant—serves as a coda to this beautifully human conversation.

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For anyone who’s experienced parenting, artistic pursuit, or the unpredictable beauty of life, this episode is a tender trove of humor, wisdom, and heartfelt song.

Transcript

[A]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? Do you have a favorite day of the week?

[B]

I'd say Friday. I really like the excitement that comes with Fridays. You've got the kind of working week behind you and you've got the possibilities of the weekend and Friday night.

[A]

Yeah, it's Friday night.

[B]

Although I'm self employed, so technically every day is Friday. Every day is Friday.

[A]

Okay, so let's imagine one of these Fridays then.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What is your vision of the ideal Friday for you?

[B]

Yeah. Waking up without an alarm. I've got a daughter, a nine year old, so I have to take her to school.

[A]

Is she your alarm?

[B]

She is my alarm. Well, not always, but in an ideal world I would just wake up when I naturally want to wake up. Maybe do something like this, come to the park, sit on the bench, talk to somebody like you.

[A]

Oh my God, we're living your ideal day now. So you wake up without an alarm.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Your daughter's around though, maybe parents. You don't want your daughter there for the ideal day. You've already got rid of daughter, which is.

[B]

Well, no, because it's a restriction of like having to get up, you know, your day doesn't start until she's safely at school. So.

[A]

I also have a nine year old daughter.

[B]

Oh, do you?

[A]

There we go. High five.

[B]

Well, wind of emotions.

[A]

Difficult age. Do you think? Do you think any age is not difficult? I mean, just in life.

[B]

In life.

[A]

Are you at a difficult age now?

[B]

No, I'd like to say that I'm a good age now. I feel like I understand myself.

[A]

What have you come to understand about yourself?

[B]

I don't kind of beat myself up for like having emotions. Sometimes I'll feel down or sometimes I feel happy. And it's just, I just accept that that's how I'm feeling in that moment. Whereas before I'd probably be like, oh my God, now I'm just like just thoughts and feelings. I'm fine, I'll probably feel different in 10 minutes. Do you know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah. Did it just, just gently happen over time? Was there any kind of moment where you go, you know what, actually I'm not gonna do that anymore. I'm gonna.

[B]

You get to a point where you're like, just life, life doesn't need to be hard, does it life's too short.

[A]

You don't have to make it a struggle. You know, it's a really good point.

[B]

I'm a songwriter, so, like, sometimes the angst that you get is good for writing songs.

[A]

Oh, good point.

[B]

So I try and like, observe when I feel like that and then try and get it out in a healthy way.

[A]

That's very clever.

[B]

Yeah, that's what I was doing when you walked past me, actually. I was just writing a song.

[A]

Oh, amazing.

[B]

Or just.

[A]

Just now?

[B]

Yeah. Just had a little beat on my phone and then I was just writing some lyrics down into my little notes.

[A]

Oh, incredible. Maybe at the end you could just sing it out.

[B]

Maybe.

[A]

What's your feeling about being a parent and still making music? Some people may say, you know, the two can be kind of tricky to go together.

[B]

Do you know, I've brought her along to a lot of gigs that I've done and I did a DJ gig in Manchester actually a couple of weekends ago, and she just sat there on the side on her iPad for two hours. She stood there at the side of the stage. Did a really big gig last year, it was at Manchester Apollo, and she just stood there at the side of the stage and watched the entire gig.

[A]

That is a big gig.

[B]

I feel like I'm giving her a good education, a kind of valuable education that I don't think other parents could give. And she wants to be a singer too.

[A]

Oh, that's so sweet. Have you sung together?

[B]

Yeah, yeah. We can sing harmonies now, actually. Yeah.

[A]

Oh, that's so fun.

[B]

She takes the melody and I like singing harmony. So when we're in the car, if there's like a song that she knows really well, I'll be like, right, why don't you try singing a bit higher than that or a bit more?

[A]

Take a harmony on it. I do that.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I sometimes wonder whether if you're in the car and other people in the car, that's just annoying for other people. Do you think it's annoying, dad? Harmony.

[B]

Get out the car then.

[A]

That's true. You're right, actually.

[B]

Don't get in a singer's car.

[A]

You're right. Don't never get in a singer's car. What else is in a singer's car?

[B]

Oh, God.

[A]

What's in your car?

[B]

My car is a mess at the moment, obviously. With a nine year old.

[A]

Are you blaming the nine year old?

[B]

Yeah, there's. I mean, there is. She spilled some chips on the floor the other day. They're probably still there. There's like slime on the seats from like a magazine that she. You know, there's a lot of things you have to get them mortgage it's creator.

[A]

So for a bit of slime and.

[B]

Then it goes everywhere and then you can never get it off. There's like some shoes from a gig that I did and then I obviously can't drive home.

[A]

Oh, sorry. I mean, you like, nick some shoes from a gig for a minute.

[B]

Oh, that's a good idea.

[A]

You're paid in shoes.

[B]

No, they're just high heels because I can't drive in them. And then I just leave them in there for the rest of eternity. There's like some speakers stands. I had my car broken into, like last year, and I had like all my microphone and speakers and everything in the car and like, they just left all. I don't know what they were looking for.

[A]

Chips. There we go for breakfast.

[B]

There's plenty of them.

[A]

Weirdly, we also share that we got burgled like maybe two years ago and there was just nothing to take. I mean, I think it was just. That's the beauty of a house full of children. Like, they would have been like, oh, why is there so much shit everywhere? Like, where is it? Yeah, exactly. That. It was like, really confusing. What's the most important song you've written, you think, in your life, have you had to only keep one? Which one are you keeping?

[B]

Oh, that's so hard.

[A]

I know.

[B]

Do you know what? I'm gonna go full circle here now. I wrote a song about my daughter. Yeah. I just think it's a lovely snapshot of this time. Yeah. And she loves it. She sings.

[A]

Oh, she sings it too.

[B]

She's actually on the recording. It's just. As a songwriter, it's easy to write about romantic love and. And stuff like that, but I think it was like. It was a love letter to my daughter and that's so sweet.

[A]

That's so lovely. How is having your daughter changed your life?

[B]

I guess it teaches you patience, doesn't it? It's made me stronger as well. Like, I am a single mum and it wasn't what I expected, but I think it's made me stronger than I probably would have been had I had my life not have unfolded like that. So I think it's taught me a lot of things and resilience and. And it's probably made our relationship stronger as well.

[A]

Yeah, of course. How have you found the experience of being a single mum?

[B]

At first I was just. I was living in London then. At first I Found it really difficult and I was really resentful and I was, yeah. Like, kind of angry and kind of annoyed. So that's, you know, I mean, no one sets out to be a single mum, do they? No one sets out to have to do things alone. But. But now I'm pleased, you know, And I say. I look at her and I see the results of us sticking together and. Yeah.

[A]

Can I ask what became of the dad?

[B]

He's in London and.

[A]

I mean, he just said one day, to sum off.

[B]

He was taking money out of her savings account and I pulled him up on it and then he was like, you're horrible, you're nasty. And I was like, okay. And then he left.

[A]

Oh, God. Oh. And so. And so he just has.

[B]

No, no, he sees half of every school holiday.

[A]

Half of her is not a lot. Well, there's something.

[B]

It is something. I mean, he's welcome to come up.

[A]

Here, but he doesn't.

[B]

Only for dropping her off.

[A]

My mother, also a single mother, so I've been in that role that he'll. That your daughter's been in. You do get a stronger bond, I think.

[B]

Yeah, definitely.

[A]

And also you become, you know, more in that supporting role because it's just the two of you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Almost think the child kind of fills the role of the partner sometimes for good and for bad. Do you know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You feel kind of. You feel like more responsibility, a bigger weight, which is kind of useful, but also potentially can be difficult.

[B]

It can be damaging as well, can't it? So, yeah, I am conscious of that and not to put too much on her, but she does, she listens. She can't hear me telling her to eat her dinner, but she can hear me talking to somebody else. Straight away, her ears pick up and she's like, what's wrong, Mum?

[A]

Yeah. How do you feel about your. I mean, again, all I've got is my own mum's experience, but I think she struggled to, well, A, have the time to potentially have new relationships.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

B, like what that relationship would mean to, like, oh, set up.

[B]

You know, this is.

[A]

How do you navigate all that?

[B]

Well, I have. I've met the partner in February.

[A]

Oh, so fresh.

[B]

Fresh, yeah.

[A]

So what's good about this new guy?

[B]

He's a dad himself. He's got two kids and.

[A]

Is that Bungie?

[B]

It is. Because a few guys that I've dated in the past, they just don't get it or they'll, like, just ignore the fact that I'm a mum because obviously I wouldn't introduce her to people until they were serious. And it's a big part of my personality and my life. You know what I mean? So the fact that he understands and his children are a big part of his life too, is really important to me. And communication is just brilliant as well. I've not had that before.

[A]

You're like, wow, this is good.

[B]

Wow. You're able to express your emotions and talk about things. It's, like, radical. It really is. It really is.

[A]

In 2025, I mean, how does he do it that has been better than other people.

[B]

He's very vulnerable with stuff. We have hard conversations. We've had a lot of hard conversations. Maybe even people who are married don't have. Do you know what I mean? We've talked about a lot. And also, he's very good at taking accountability as well. Like, we've had moments where with somebody else, it could have turned into an argument or gone into a, you know, he said, she said, or even, like, the silent treatment. I've had that a lot in the past. And you feel this thing in your gut where you're like, oh, this push and pull, Is it love? You know? And I think that's what I've been used to in the past. And this guy's very different. He doesn't give me any reasons for doubt. Like these lyrics I was writing.

[A]

No reason for doubt.

[B]

Yeah. It was like, I really love the way you love me. You give me reason not to doubt how you feel about us. Never knew love could be this healthy communication. 10, 10. You're my love from all my friends.

[A]

Ah. 3. Will you send it to him?

[B]

Maybe once I've recorded it and added those nice harmonies and. Yeah.

[A]

Do you think you'll receive it well?

[B]

Yeah, I think so. Definitely.

[A]

Do you think there's an argument for saying you weren't ready for anyone before now?

[B]

Possibly?

[A]

Or is it just a kind of luck of the jaw?

[B]

No, I think it's really interesting with him because we've kind of been in each other's lives for 15 years. I had no awareness who he was, but he came to see my bands play.

[A]

Oh, wow.

[B]

2010.

[A]

Whoa.

[B]

Yeah. We have actually communicated, but I didn't know it was. It was him, you know? You know, all we're playing at this place and being online and.

[A]

Oh, that's interesting.

[B]

I know. Really interesting.

[A]

What is that? Like, almost he's got a head start.

[B]

That's the thing. It does almost feel a bit weird. You're like, he added me on Facebook in January I got a friend request come through and it was this, like, he's got long locks and he had this hat on and like these dark glasses and I couldn't really see his face. So I just sent a message and was like, do we know each other? I do. And he was like, yeah, we've communicated over the years and blah, blah, blah, I'm a fan of your bands or whatever. And so I was like, oh, all right then, cool. So I kind of befriended him and then a few weeks later he changed his picture and I was like, who is this person? And I realized it was him.

[A]

What was he doing with the first picture?

[B]

I have no idea. It was very. It looks like a Moomin. Do you remember Moomins?

[A]

Yeah. I don't know. What do you think he put a new photo to?

[B]

Possibly. It worked.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So then at some point he asked, but it must have been then quite a big leap for him to ask you out or do you ask him out?

[B]

No, he asked me. We were just talking every day pretty much on Facebook. No, we swapped numbers and then we just talked like non stop talking.

[A]

Oh, that's lovely.

[B]

Yeah, it is. It feels exciting.

[A]

Also, it's quite cool you were practising your communication. Just straight, straight off, straight away.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Has he met your daughter?

[B]

He has, yeah.

[A]

What's that moment like? It must be kind of quite nerve wracking.

[B]

Yeah, it was. And like she led it basically. I told her that I met somebody and she was like, oh, I want to meet them so that I kind of, you know, let her kind of lead the way. And he's good with kids because obviously he's a dad and he's used to dealing with them as well. He's not like, hey, he's not too much. He kind of just sits back and.

[A]

Then let, you know, let them come to you. You can always tell the people who are better with kids.

[B]

You can.

[A]

And like they just don't rush it.

[B]

That's the thing. I don't like that whole performative thing as well, of hey guys.

[A]

You know, like it's gonna children's TV or something.

[B]

Yeah. It makes me think that maybe that'll burn out and then they won't be interested. Like the kids actually had a sleepover last week. That was a big step. Yeah.

[A]

So hang on. So they came to you?

[B]

They came to ours, yeah.

[A]

And your daughter obviously as well.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, they get on really well.

[A]

Oh, sweet. Oh, wow. So you've really like. I know you're advancing stuff like pretty.

[B]

I Know, I mean, that's the thing. Yeah, it kind of. It's working at the moment.

[A]

Are you at all looking for, like. Maybe it's a bit of a difficult question, but you. Do you want your daughter to have, like, more fathery type figures?

[B]

Definitely, yeah, definitely. I want her to see a loving relationship as well. Like, my parents are still together, still married. I want her to see. Yeah, to see love, you know.

[A]

Oh, completely, yeah. How do you feel about your parents?

[B]

We have a good relationship.

[A]

They do a good job.

[B]

Yeah, they do, they do, they do.

[A]

Where do you get what from? Where? From who?

[B]

Oh, Gelat.

[A]

How did you become you.

[B]

Dad'S from Yorkshire, my mum's from Liverpool. They're both arty, creative types.

[A]

To what extent do you think you are a Yorkshire soul?

[B]

I think so, yeah.

[A]

Maybe an annoying question, but what is that?

[B]

A good heart with a bit of sarcasm, a bit of, like, get up and go. We don't complain much and if we do, we'll then take the piss out.

[A]

You'll be punished for complaining. Someone taking the piss out.

[B]

But in general, a good heart. I found that a lot in Yorkshire and like I said, I lived in London for 10 years. Although when I moved down, everyone was like, oh, that there, London, you know, nobody will smile at you. Nobody. I did, you know, like, get one smile. I spent three or four years being a single mum in London and, you know, people were really helpful on tubes, helping me with boogie and directing me or, you know, and I made a lot of friends down there as well.

[A]

It does get a bit of a bad. A bad rapper. I mean, it just, you know, there's everyone down there. There's definitely friendly people down there, definitely, you know. Why did you move down for music?

[B]

I had a band in Leeds. The bass player moved down and we were all like, what are you doing? Why? Why have you moved down then? A year later I moved down and then the drummer moved down. Oh, wow. And then the trumpet player moved down.

[A]

And then the only trumpet player moved. You got a trumpet player in your.

[B]

Band and then everyone was down in London, apart from the percussionist who kept it real still in the lead.

[A]

Have you done anything as a parent that your parents did, you know, anything? You were keen to just carry on.

[B]

I think the bringing her along to things. Like my parents, it was just me. I didn't have any siblings or anything and they just used to bring me to stuff, like. Stuff that other parents probably wouldn't take kids to. They were very much of that mindset of, like, they are on the continent. Do you know what I mean? They'd go out for a formal dinner and I'd be there asleep across their laps and stuff.

[A]

Oh, that's lovely.

[B]

Or I'd go to their friend's house and fall asleep behind the sofa and then they'd take me home, you know what I mean? So I'm kind of adopting that a little bit with my daughter. Like, why shouldn't children come along? I mean, obviously, you know, you wouldn't take them clubbing or, you know, things like that. But I want to bring her along and I want to show her what I do as well. Inspire her.

[A]

That's lovely.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I also. Similar scenario. Only child. My mother's.

[B]

Are we the same person?

[A]

We're the same person. We are the same person. I had to come all the way to Hudderfield to meet my twin.

[B]

These parallel lines and.

[A]

Yeah, I just remember. I think you do. Even. Even if you only get like bits of occasions as a kid, just. Just the atmosphere of a place, even if you're just there. Yeah, you soak it up.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And that just really aids your future adaptability and awareness of situations.

[B]

I think so.

[A]

And older people as well. I was. I mean.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, that's it.

[A]

I could say that maybe I'm only on this bench because my mother took me to grown up stuff.

[B]

That's. Yeah.

[A]

And I'd say that.

[B]

Hi, Mum.

[A]

Yeah, exactly.

[B]

Hi, Mum did a good job.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, she did all right. Yeah. What should I say? Yeah, I suppose you just meet. Yeah, just meet lots of older people. So you get better at, you know, conversing with people of different ages.

[B]

Definitely. I think that's a real skill. I love that. You know, my daughter is the same. She's able to communicate with all ages.

[A]

Oh, magic.

[B]

And I think, again, I was the same because I had. And it's interesting as well. I think you've definitely got that you're interested and I think that's why you're doing this podcast, because you've got an interest in people and I think it's.

[A]

This is true.

[B]

It's a good skill.

[A]

They are quite interesting.

[B]

Very interesting. Would you call yourself a psycho geographer?

[A]

I'm a psycho. Just a psycho. Yeah. No, it is weird. I mean, just today, just coming here from Sheffield on that really slow train. Bloody hell. I reckon I could have walked it faster, potentially. And I did think of really look out the window and really think about my life. I was like, how the hell have you done this? What has happened to you? You know, such a weird. Such a weird journey to take you to get to this day. When was the last time you felt you were like, God, this is weird in your life every day. Every day. This is weird being me.

[B]

When did Alice think that? I went to see Chris Brown on Sunday night in Manchester and I got three tickets, and the tickets were like, 200 or something pound. And the person who was supporting him, I was singing with last year. Yeah. He played at, like, Wembley arena and stuff. And. I know. So, like, I was like, what is this life? You know what I mean? I can just slide in the DMs and say, yeah, put me on this show. And then. Yeah, like, you know what I mean? I was like, what is this live? A girl from Yorkshire, like, you mean.

[A]

You'Re thinking, like, I can't believe that's me. How am I singing the songs?

[B]

Yeah. Firstly, how is that my voice? You know, a lot of people know and, like, that particular song and. Yeah, how. How is. I don't know. How does this work? You know what I mean? That was a song that got recorded in a small, tiny bedroom in Leeds, and then now it's four times platinum.

[A]

Whoa. So you've got a platinum song?

[B]

Have. Yeah.

[A]

Have you got a plaque? Have you got a plaque?

[B]

Yeah, he gave me a plaque. So that's. Yeah. 4 million sales in my studio at home.

[A]

Oh, sweet.

[B]

Got a little attic with a. I mean, it's very humble. It's just got two speakers and a laptop and, you know.

[A]

Oh, and the plaque.

[B]

And the plaque.

[A]

Of course, when people come in, you're like, look at my plaque.

[B]

I mean, I have got it in my. You have to go. You have to go all the way up three flights of stairs to the studio to go and see it.

[A]

You should have it in the front door.

[B]

People said that, but I don't know. I'm not that kind of person.

[A]

You know what you could do?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Stick it in a toilet. I'll tell you why, because they have to see it. But it looks like you're really chilled about it. It's the ultimate humble brag.

[B]

That is. That's a good shout. I don't think I have the room in my bathroom. It's a bit small.

[A]

How big is this plaque?

[B]

This big.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Perfect for audio.

[B]

Perfect for audio. I do this all the time. I smile.

[A]

It's about that big. It's about that big.

[B]

It's about. I don't even know what. How much. What would you say that is?

[A]

I don't know, like, Three quarters of a meter?

[B]

Yeah. Three quarters of a meter. No, I like to look up it and be like, magic can happen. This thing that I'm working on right now. I might not think it's any good at the moment, but that could. Then, you know.

[A]

How do you feel about performing? Do you get nervous?

[B]

No, no. I used to. I mean, I did. We did Wembley arena last year and the first night I was, like, really shitting myself. But I had to, like, take myself into, like, a choir room to sit down and be like, this is it. You know, everything you've done up until this point, this. This is it. Like, don't ruin it by having nerves, you know what I mean? Enjoy it. But I wouldn't have been there if I wasn't deserving of it. You know what I mean?

[A]

Yeah, completely.

[B]

So there's a bit of like, no, come on.

[A]

And it worked and it did.

[B]

And then the second night, I had no nerves, was it.

[A]

But what night was better?

[B]

I think the. I think I sounded better the first night, I think, because I was more like. So I think I did sound better and I think maybe I was a bit too lax the second night, but I probably performed better. So it's, you know, what's it like.

[A]

Performing so many people. You pick some people out, you can't see anyone.

[B]

You can't see faces. Especially not in that setting. Although I went to go sing in my daughter's school a couple of weeks ago. That was scarier. Singing in front of 10,000 people.

[A]

That was so funny.

[B]

It really was, like, you know, because kids picking their noses like you were. At one point, my daughter put her hands to her face and was, like, shaking her head and I was like, oh, my. It was like a knife through the heart. What?

[A]

Mid set.

[B]

I introduced the song.

[A]

So good.

[B]

It's a song I've written about my daughter and she was like, oh, Mum, I hope I haven't traumatised her for life.

[A]

Oh, fantastic. Have you had any absolute awful gigs?

[B]

Probably wiped some out of my memory. Yeah, yeah.

[A]

Have there been any that you thought, you know, as you've done it, you thought, oh, God, like, I'm just never going to do this again.

[B]

I used to sing jazz when I. Because I studied jazz. I used to do a lot of those gigs where I'd turn up to a pub somewhere and I'd have all my music printed out and I'd meet the band, like, in that moment and then hand out the music and then have to perform. And as a singer, the front person if anything goes wrong, it's all eyes on you. And people are like, you know, and. And that's because I'd met these guys like five minutes ago, you know, and so, like, I just. I got to a point where I was like, I'm never doing a gig like that again. Like, I'm not putting myself in that position. And I'm glad I did. I'm glad I. You know, my mum and dads loved when I used to do those kind of gigs, but I just, I don't want to.

[A]

So they always encouraged you?

[B]

Always? Yeah, yeah, always.

[A]

So you never had anyone say, don't do that.

[B]

No, no, never.

[A]

Because it's a funny profession to go into.

[B]

It is a funny profession. Yeah. And especially when you don't sometimes earn much money, people are like, come on. Especially again when you become a mum as well, you know, like, they've still always. They see it as a profession and even if I'm not earning money, they don't judge me, which I'm really grateful for.

[A]

Oh, that's so sweet of them.

[B]

Yeah. It must be awful, those people that, you know, I'll go get a proper job or you go be a doctor or something, you know, I'll push you into that. Must be awful, actually. Must be awful to your creativity and your art.

[A]

It's a funny thought to think that out there now would be X amount of professionals, whatever, who could have been amazing artists. Just with a few pushes here and there, I know might have made an incredible thing. It is by then. That's just, you know, but then maybe.

[B]

They will later in life.

[A]

Maybe this is true.

[B]

You know what I mean? I like that about music. I think it's forever. All art is forever. Isn't he just wake up one day and like, I want to paint a picture of this and, you know, if.

[A]

For some reason you woke up tomorrow and all the music had drained out of you, let's imagine for some reason you just. You just had this awareness. It is all gone.

[B]

It's gone.

[A]

What. Where do you think you would turn next?

[B]

Do you know what, actually I love houses and like interior design and stuff.

[A]

Love it. She just loves houses. I do all the houses.

[B]

Oh, wow. And like, I'm always looking at houses and like looking inside the pictures. I'm quite nosy like that.

[A]

I like that. Yeah.

[B]

I find it so fascinating. I guess it's like similar to what you do. It's like interesting other people and you can see it, can't you? Because people, you know, everyone shows their personality don't they? Right. How they dress or whatever. How they decorate their house or don't decorate their house or.

[A]

Do you know what I mean? So true. Have you got any themes in your house?

[B]

No, it's a bit random. Mine. No, I think mine's quite random, but it kind of fits together.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I feel like the house is smiling again because it wasn't looked after and I feel like I brought a smile back to it.

[A]

Smiling house.

[B]

Smiling house.

[A]

I often think, how can I? I feel quite jealous of window cleaners where like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

They get to just go in everybody's house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And basically go in every room. There aren't that many jobs you get to go in every room.

[B]

True. Yeah.

[A]

Maybe you could start doing house gigs, but the condition is that you do a song and eat every room.

[B]

Christen your house with song.

[A]

But, you know, like a solo woman.

[B]

I don't know if I want to go in. Maybe I'll take the band.

[A]

Take the band.

[B]

Take the band. Me and loads of boys.

[A]

Just get the trumpeter, you'll be fine.

[B]

Whack him over the head with a trumpet.

[A]

Funny business. Yeah. I would just thought that would be so glorious if you and the trumpeters rocking up different people's new houses.

[B]

Come and do it in London. Knock on your door one day. What a full circle moment.

[A]

I mean, I feel like this is bound to happen.

[B]

Oh, dear.

[A]

What is the weirdest item you have in your house, would you say?

[B]

Oh, when I lived in. In South London, there was like a skip and like next to the skip was this, like, mannequin. But it's just like. Just got that.

[A]

But it got a head.

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, it's just the body.

[B]

It's just the torso and Of a woman with women.

[A]

Sorry, I was going to ask.

[B]

And it's just there in the cellar. So, like.

[A]

It's in the cellar.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you can really creep someone out. They go there.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. As if cellars weren't creepy enough.

[A]

What else do you have in the cellar?

[B]

I've got my wine collection. Wine. I wish. The wine doesn't last that long in my house, unfortunately. And then a boiler. That is really irritating. I keep having to get people out to it because it's just a pain in the. Oh, God. I won't bore you with the details of that, to be honest.

[A]

You know what? I quite want to hear about the boiler. Can you tell me about it?

[B]

How long have you got?

[A]

I've done 150 of these. You know, I've not had one boiler conversation.

[B]

Really. Yeah, well, there we go.

[A]

This is breaking new ground.

[B]

I am that boring person that you never hoped for me. The boiler. Oh, basically I got some solar panels fitted last year and I was like, right, I'm gonna go green. I'm gonna, you know, I'm gonna get rid of gas completely. And I got this electric combi boiler. Anyway, this guy fitted it who looked like Phil Mitchell from EastEnders.

[A]

Maybe. It was probably.

[B]

Was. Yeah, it was awful. The water since has been orange.

[A]

Orange?

[B]

Yeah, it's like a trickle of orange pigs.

[A]

Basically a chicken orange piece.

[B]

Yeah. So he came back and he was like, oh, yeah, sorry, I forgot to do this. And then at least the pressure then was sorted, but it was still orange. Then one day, I was like, sat watching TV one evening and the entire electricity went out and I could smell burning coming from the cellar. There was all this smoke and, like, smelling. It was awful. So I called this guy up and was like, what's going on? Anyway, he came around the next day, I opened the door to him and he went, what have you done to it now? And he lives in Surrey. And he came up to check this boiler and was just shouting at me, like, made my daughter cry one. It was awful. He's now gone bust. His company is now.

[A]

Oh, classic. Classic.

[B]

It's just been hell, basically.

[A]

I thought it was gonna be funnier than it was. Oh, no, it's actually just really miserable.

[B]

You know, you try and do your little bit for the planet and it just ends up, let the planet burn.

[A]

You should have let the planet burn.

[B]

I'm trying, but, yeah. Sorry, that wasn't a funny story.

[A]

No, it wasn't, was it? But, you know, it was a story.

[B]

It was a story about a boiler and I hope.

[A]

I hope there's boiler resolution.

[B]

Well, it's not leaking, so that's not.

[A]

There you go. You know, supposed to be great.

[B]

I don't have to take them to court, which I didn't really want to, and I did, but at least they've kind of said, look, if you have issues, hopefully I won't. Which would. But if I do. Yeah.

[A]

Have you ever been to court otherwise?

[B]

I have.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

My daughter's dad took me to court when I moved up here. I know, yeah.

[A]

What was that like hell.

[B]

It was awful. We were in the family court for a whole year. Yeah, yeah. It was awful.

[A]

How often you actually go to the court?

[B]

Well, it was locked down, so it was all video, so I didn't actually have to go in, which was probably a blessing, actually, because it Would have been.

[A]

And you're quizzed on your. I mean, what are you. I mean, how's it work?

[B]

Well, firstly, we had a house together in London and I was. He moved out and I was trying to take over the mortgage for this house on my own as a self employed musician. And it was just hell for three years. And then he said, I want my name off. And I was like, I can't take it over. So he was like, let's sell it then. And so I said, okay, but you are aware that I'm probably gonna have to move back to Yorkshire. And he was like, no, you're not. Well, I can't, I can't buy anywhere here. What's the point in renting when I could go and, you know, we could buy somewhere.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

In Yorkshire and I'm with my family and I just, I can't do it anymore. And then he, he was. Just ignored me basically for a few months and I was like, we're moving here. I gave him all the details and then we moved. And then he was like, you're a child abuser. I'm not, obviously. Yeah, I'm not. But that's. He put an emergency court application in and was like, said loads of horrible things about my parents. And so we had to have like social services and cafcast come and do meetings and you know, but I've got full custody and she sees him half of every school holiday.

[A]

So someone ruled on that at some point.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. They had to come and like do interviews and go to her school and come and see me and, and them and you know, and work out where's best for her. And they decided here.

[A]

Yeah. Oh God, that sounds so.

[B]

It was awful. I just wouldn't wish it on anybody really.

[A]

How did you navigate that time?

[B]

I mean, just with great difficulties, difficulty, to be honest. It was horrible. I mean it was locked down. So that was like awful. We had to move back with my parents and I was working up here, I was teaching and all of my wage was just paying for an empty house down there. It was just awful. It was a hell. There were times where I just, I didn't want to be here. But then he would have won.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

You know, and it was so crying. But it was, it was a hard, a hard time. But we got through it and I think even me and him now in a better place. Like I've forgiven him. Yeah. Like, that's interesting.

[A]

How's that work?

[B]

I just don't want to carry hatred anymore. It's not healthy. Is it? And. And it's not good, you know, like he. He is still in my daughter's life and she loves him and I never want to take that away from. That's very sweet of you.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, really well done. Because it's. Yeah, I think that that kind of thing would make a huge difference to her. You know, kids are so aware of their parents animosity or not.

[B]

Oh, definitely. I know.

[A]

So for you to be the bigger person, well done. Do you ever wonder, like, how you on earth you ended up with this person?

[B]

We met at a gig. Yeah, My band were playing before. His band being a musician, eh? God, why? Maybe my parents should have said to be a doctor, damn them. No, it. I don't know. But I've kind of. You can't regret anything, can you? I've got my beautiful daughter now and I wouldn't if I hadn't. You know what I mean? I mean, there are times where I still think I hate you, you know, I mean, he's in the situation again. He's had another baby.

[A]

Oh, dear.

[B]

And she's taken him to court and she reached out to me last year and said, this is a situation. We're not together anymore. Would you like to keep in touch for the sake of the two sisters? And I was like, yeah, a little baby is really sweet and it's lovely for my daughter to have a sibling because I obviously haven't had anymore and.

[A]

Yeah, what a life, eh? Is there anything about you you feel is invisible you wish other people would see more of?

[B]

That's a good question. Maybe because people see you online or they think, oh, they're doing well, they must, you know, they live quite a fruitful life. They must be fine. And maybe people don't check in on me as much as, yeah, maybe I'd appreciate a bit more like, are you okay? Oh, do you want to hang out? I think people think I'm busy all the time, so maybe I don't get invited to some, you know, so. That'd be nice.

[A]

Yeah. I think that is the thing, isn't it?

[B]

Lonely sometimes.

[A]

Yeah. I really sympathize. I think there are a number of site bummers about having kids in the family.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And one of them is a bit like, you know, you. You're thought of it as a kind of family unit and you're maybe inviting stuff as a family, but otherwise you'll think, oh, well, they're just be doing parent stuff, you know, when actually it's really important to not be doing that sometimes.

[B]

100%. Yeah. Yeah. Especially when my daughter goes down to London. Then I'm like, what do I do?

[A]

Who am I? Like, what am I doing wandering around?

[B]

Remember the first time she went down after we'd moved up here and she went down three weeks and I just felt so lonely. So lonely. Which should have been. I shouldn't have been, like, I should have been out, you know what I mean? Should have been like staying out till like 4 o' clock in the morning every night. But I wasn't.

[A]

What do you do now when she's away for a chunk of time?

[B]

Sleeping, sometimes stay out 4 o' clock in the morning. Sometimes I just don't. I don't eat as well. That sounds really bad. But I'll like, forget to eat. Whereas you can't forget to eat, can you, when you, like, you've got breakfast, snack, lunch, snack, dinner, supper.

[A]

You know, I think I just eat this all. Just. There's never a five minutes before eating something. I mean, I think people, people without children just don't realize how much of it is just basically meals. Yes, it is like an endless restaurant.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You could say it's hard in a restaurant because you don't get paid. And you, the people. No thanks. There's no thanks. And the food could be rejected at any time. I mean, most of the time I go to a restaurant, you know, even if it's not great, you know, I'll still eat it, you know, but like with the kid. No, send it back. Another dish. Oh, I don't have any of that in. Well, make it. I. I will simply starve. I will starve. I will have no food.

[B]

And then you end up eating it. Oh, God, it's hard, isn't it? It is hard. And I think it's okay to say that it's hard as well.

[A]

Of course.

[B]

Doesn't mean you don't love your kids.

[A]

No, definitely, definitely. It's good. It's good to be honest about these things. Here's a question for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If there can be a good ending, I've got, I've got the end question. But if there can be a good ending, the ending should be good.

[B]

I agree.

[A]

You said, as I found you, you were in the middle of like sketching a song with the beats. How do you feel about singing a couple of those lines over those beats? You don't have to do like a complete thing.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. So this is a song that a producer in San Diego sent me.

[A]

Oh, he's fancy.

[B]

Yeah, no, he's. He'll send me like about five or six tunes and like a little beat pack maybe like every couple of months. But this is kind of like a happy one. Don't know if you can hear it.

[A]

Yeah, nice.

[B]

Sounds quite American, don't you think? But then like. Oh, well, he got the chorus.

[A]

You just. You just sing it whatever you want.

[B]

Just like a little verse part. But the chorus will come in now.

[A]

Beautiful.

[B]

Yeah, I haven't got any more, but that was great. Thank you. That was great.

[A]

The last question for you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What are you going to do next?

[B]

I'm gonna go get a coffee.

[A]

Classic.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

That's so you.

[B]

I was waiting. I was waiting because the glass house down there opens at 10. So I was just sat on the bench writing a little song before, but now. What time? I don't even know what time it is. Half 11. How long have we been talking for?

[A]

Time flies, really. Talking to strangers on benches.

[B]

It does.

[A]

That's what happens. Well, thank you so much.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

Honor and a privilege. Tom.

[B]

Tom.

[A]

Don't tell me yours.

[B]

No, I won't.

[A]

Nice one.

[B]

Nice one.

[C]

I never knew a love like this existed Lay it's not for me? I never wake in the morning? Safe in the feeling someone really loves me? Never fall asleep at night all trapped around me? Oh, now that's changed since you came apart?

[B]

I feel in love?

[C]

You give me reason not to download every day I'm so grateful for everything? Feeling my energy? Feel my love and arms wrapped around you? Baby, I don't know what I do if you want I don't walk away? You give me reason not to down how you feel.

[B]

It.