Strangers on a Bench – Episode 52: People Were Scared of Us

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Date: September 8, 2025

Episode Overview

In this reflective and emotionally resonant episode, Tom Rosenthal speaks with an anonymous older Londoner nearing their 76th birthday. Seated on a park bench overlooking the city, the guest shares powerful stories of love, loss, resilience, and change—spanning their lifelong battle with illness, decades of LGBTQ+ activism, memories of the AIDS crisis, and their imminent move to Ireland. The conversation weaves together the personal with the political, detailing what it means to persevere, adapt, and continue embracing life through immense social and personal change.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. How Days Are Composed, and the Rituals of Living

• The guest reflects on what makes a "good day," highlighting that life is essentially a series of events, not strictly good or bad days.
  • Quote: "I don't think there's such a thing as a good day or as a bad day. There are just events that happen...if you like to spot naked running men, that's a good moment, but it's not the end of the day." (01:26, Guest)
• Daily routines often focus on managing pain from lifelong juvenile rheumatoid arthritis and finding small pleasures, like sitting on their favorite bench remembering a departed friend.

2. Significance of Place, Memory, and Friendship

• The guest visits a particular bench to recall a final meeting with a close friend who died of cancer in 2021.
  • Quote: "A good day today is for me...coming up here and thinking about my friend. She was very important to me. We were both delegates...to Hogan and St. Pacris constituency." (03:39, Guest)
• They published a tribute about this last conversation.

3. Moving to Ireland and Reflections on Change

• After 21 years in a long-distance relationship, the guest is finally moving to Ireland to be with their partner and his extended family.
• They express both excitement and sadness leaving behind a life in London, noting cultural and political disappointments:
  • Quote: "I'm really not happy with culture and society and politics in London. I think it's very hard on people who are poor...it's better if I'm not living in a capital city." (07:07, Guest)

4. Long History of Activism and Living through LGBTQ+ Discrimination

• The guest was active from the era when homosexuality was criminalized, through the campaign for equality, and into the time of contemporary challenges.
  • Quote: "Homosexuality was a criminal offence until I was 18 years old...you couldn't tell anyone...no prospect of getting any kind of social housing. So at least it's not like that now." (09:29, Guest)
• On not “coming out” in a single moment, instead, action came first:
  • Quote: "The first thing wasn't actually telling anyone, it was doing something..." (11:02, Guest)
• They reference a famous Gore Vidal anecdote for comic relief:
  • Quote: "I was too polite to ask." (11:45, Guest, quoting Gore Vidal)

5. Living through the AIDS Crisis and Social Stigma

• Deeply affected by the 1980s AIDS epidemic, the guest cared for many friends as they died, often without adequate support:
  • Quote: "So sometimes people didn't want to have someone with AIDS close by because they thought they might be able to catch it...but we were too young to have had that experience of death." (18:57, Guest)
• The stigma and fear from that era linger, especially amid contemporary backlash against LGBTQ+ rights:
  • Quote: "People were scared of us." (18:57, Guest)
• Enduring theme: Carrying on with daily life, even in catastrophe.
  • Quote: "You've got to carry on doing what you do...still have those things that make life enjoyable, to make life have a meaning." (19:56, Guest)

6. On Resilience & Growth

• On coping through hard times, like lockdown, by staying active and connected to purpose, notably through running an HIV information line and extensive reading.
• Reflections suggest that these experiences deepened an understanding of mortality and the importance of community.

7. Living with a Chronic Illness from Childhood

• Diagnosed with severe juvenile rheumatoid arthritis at age 7, which affected education and social life.
  • Quote: "It means that my education is very...it's got holes in it." (25:15, Guest)
• The impact included long hospitalization, changing accents, and lifelong adaptation.

8. Memory, Loss, and Continuity

• Many significant people have already been lost—especially to AIDS—so leaving London is less about places and more about carrying memories wherever you go.
  • Quote: "I already miss them anyway because they're dead because of the AIDS epidemic in the 1980s." (12:38, Guest)

9. Ending, Next Steps, and Small Joys

• The episode closes with the guest explaining they're off to the pub on Highgate Road after this impromptu chat and reflecting on the cyclical nature of rituals, memory, and new beginnings.
  • Quote: "Well, I'm going to the pub...after my conversation with her here." (28:26, Guest)
  • Quote: "Love and pain, they are no strangers, we can get through anything. It's how you go about it. It's how you carry yourself..." (29:28, Guest, poetic closing monologue)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On resilience:
  "You can't just say, this overwhelming horror means that I'll give up....to make life have a meaning, where you feel as though you are comfortable with your actions and behavior." (19:56, Guest)
• On social change:
  "I think lots of people have become very complacent, which we weren't...when I was a young man…We weren't complacent about politics or society." (12:56, Guest)
• On the AIDS epidemic:
  "We did our best, but we had to make it up....we were too young to have had that experience of death." (17:28, Guest)
• On loss and moving forward:
  "A new chapter is there and I'm ready to go. The books are packed in an order. A day is made up of so many things..." (29:28, Closing monologue/poem)

Important Segment Timestamps

• 00:50: Philosophy of daily living; not dividing days into “good” or “bad”.
• 02:03: Daily routine shaped by chronic illness and remembering lost friends.
• 03:39: Bench as memorial for a departed friend.
• 07:07: Motivation for moving to Ireland, critique of London’s society and politics.
• 09:29: Experiences of criminalization, secrecy, and coming out as gay.
• 12:38: Grief from losing friends during the AIDS epidemic.
• 14:04: Coping through reading, charity work, and giving away possessions.
• 17:28: Direct experience caring for friends during the 1980s AIDS crisis.
• 23:12: Living with rheumatoid arthritis since childhood.
• 26:22: Impact of long hospital stays, changing accent, early education.
• 28:26: Plans after the interview: going to the pub, reflecting on endings and new beginnings.
• 29:28: Poetic summary and send-off.

Tone & Language

The episode is thoughtful, candid, and imbued with gentle humor as well as moments of melancholy. Both Tom and his guest maintain empathy and warmth, while delving into deep themes of resilience, identity, loss, and hope.

Summary

This episode offers a moving oral history from someone who has lived through immense social, medical, and political change, anchored by an enduring drive for connection, love, and dignity. The anonymous guest's stories of survival—through illness, marginalization, and the AIDS crisis—are interwoven with humor, generosity, and a commitment to "carry on." For new and returning listeners alike, this conversation serves as both a testament to personal resilience and a record of LGBTQ+ experience in Britain spanning almost eight decades.