Podcast Summary: Strangers on a Bench – Episode 62: I Wish That Was My Last Kiss

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Date: November 17, 2025

Episode Overview

In this evocative episode, Tom Rosenthal sits beside an anonymous 84-year-old woman on a London park bench. Their candid conversation spans themes of aging, activism, memory, friendship, family, sexuality, and mortality. The guest, with humor and honesty, reflects on nearly nine decades of life, unearthing stories about her bohemian youth, lifelong activism, motherhood, relationships, sexual awakening, and what it means to grow old—especially as a lesbian woman. The tone is intimate, touching on both profound and mundane truths.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Fluidity of Time in Old Age

• The guest has lost any preference for days since retiring:
  • "Since I'm now almost 85, I don't have those divisions anymore." (01:00, Guest)
• She jokes about age and appearance, showing self-awareness and humor:
  • “You don’t look almost 85.”
  • "This is the way 85 can look." (01:15, Guest)

2. Lifelong Activism: Women in Black

• Saturday vigils for peace have been a constant:
  • "We stand silently... with signs saying, stop the war, Stop arming Israel, Peace no more, whatever." (01:41, Guest)
  • The group has met weekly since an escalation in 2023:
    • "This younger Israeli woman started [it] the week after the whole thing blew up on October 7th. So we've been doing it two years." (02:11, Guest)
• She feels activism is sometimes futile but necessary:
  • "You think to yourself, this is pathetic. But then you do what you can." (02:39, Guest)
• The meaningful use of black clothes through decades and cultural markers of bohemianism in the 1950s (03:06-03:20).

3. Conflict & Growth in Mother-Daughter Relationships

• Her relationship with her mother was complicated:
  • "She resented everything that I became, which was not the trajectory that I think she would have liked." (05:19, Guest)
  • "She was very strong willed, but she hadn't had a chance to do the things that I had a chance to do." (05:48, Guest)
• A formative childhood episode: a promise of $50 for not smoking was reneged, resulting in first smoking at college (06:13-07:33).

4. Death, Dignity, & End of Life Decisions

• Devastating loss: her father (2007), youngest brother (2008), and demented mother (2009). She advocates for end-of-life choice:
  • "I belong to... My Death, My Decision, because, believe me, I do not want to hang around like she did." (08:25, Guest)
• Has witnessed friends suffering in their end days and would prefer autonomy over her death:
  • "I would like to go, you know, I don't want to hang on." (08:45, Guest)
  • A group of friends agreed that 85 is the optimal age for dying but she maintains enjoyment in life through social and intellectual engagement (09:54-10:50).

5. Childhood Adventures and Lifelong Friendship

• Fond memories of wild, unsupervised days:
  • "We were so free. We were running wild in the woods..." (11:25-11:56, Guest)
  • Recounted causing a fire (13:20):
    • "We started setting fire to little bits of wood and leaves... It had spread. We tried and we could not get it out. So we tore back to her house and her mother... went tearing off... call the fire department now."
  • The friendship with Nancy, her childhood accomplice, has persisted for nearly eight decades, enduring even as Nancy now faces memory loss.
    • "She's still my very close friend... That's a really long friendship." (15:21-15:24, Guest)
    • "Nancy is entering a period of some kind of memory loss, maybe dementia, just at the beginning... now it's clear that you might look after her." (15:48-16:23, Guest)
  • Key to their friendship:
    • "There are some friends... you can be apart from them for ages and you just click back in." (16:36, Guest)

6. Sexual Identity, Late in Life

• The guest identifies now as a lesbian, having come out later in adulthood:
  • "I'm a lesbian now. I didn't used to be." (17:45, Guest)
  • Sparked through involvement with the women's liberation movement and work at the feminist magazine Spare Rib:
    • "That I blame the women's liberation movement, which I'm still involved in." (18:16, Guest)
  • Her attraction to women grew gradually and did not start with unhappiness in marriage:
    • "I do not believe I was always really a lesbian. I think I was a very happy, hopeful, involved heterosexual." (19:57, Guest)
  • First same-sex affair unfolded subtly and with self-discovery:
    • "I was working at Holloway Prison... I fell under the spell of a much younger woman who was in prison, and she was much more experienced at seducing people." (20:44-21:20, Guest)
    • "I was absolutely knocked out by lesbian sex. It was fabulous... what I didn't realize was how much pleasure I would get out of making love to a woman." (22:35-23:14, Guest)

7. Relationships, Marriage, and Family Impact

• Her ex-husband remains an important part of her life:
  • "If he hadn't been the principled and incredibly generous person that he is, it might not have worked very well." (23:42, Guest)
  • Though their marriage ended, they never divorced and remain close (24:15).
• Difficulties reconciling relationships and motherhood:
  • Children were 8 and 10 when she came out.
  • On their reaction:
    • "One of them said, who is he? And I said, it's not a man, it's a woman. And he said, oh, that's good." (40:41, Guest)
  • Accepts that her choices affected her children but rejects that she is the sole cause of their struggles:
    • "You get fucked up for a lot of different reasons, not just one." (38:31, Guest)

8. Aging, Sexuality & Solitude

• She embraces solitude and has retired from romantic relationships:
  • "I wouldn't want to have a relationship now with anyone... I'm also a very... I really value and need solitude." (30:34-31:28, Guest)
• On the last person she kissed:
  • A sweet memory, then the admission of wishing a better kiss had been the last:
    • "I've just lied to you because, in fact, that wasn't my last kiss at all. Maybe I wish that were my last kiss." (32:53-33:05, Guest)
  • Her last actual romantic encounter was "about 14 years ago." (34:00, Guest)
  • Finds sexual pleasure in masturbation and insists this is also sex:
    • "My idea of sex is if you got off on having your elbow, your right elbow touched gently by a finger... that's sex." (35:49, Guest)
    • "Do you still do it even?" "Oh, yeah, yeah." (36:12-36:19, Guest)
  • Known as the "sex lady" at Holloway Prison for honest discussion about sexuality (34:25 & 34:30).

9. Life Advice, Reflection, & The Value of Risk

• Cautions that major life changes impact others and advocates balance:
  • "Nobody exists as a discrete human being without a context of people you are responsible for and you love." (37:39, Guest)
  • Encourages not letting fear of risk dictate one’s life:
    • "Being afraid and too nervous to take risks is not the way forward either." (38:30, Guest)
  • Values time’s ability to heal and mend family ruptures.

10. On Aging, Legacy, and What Comes Next

• Enjoyed her 40s, 50s, and 60s, but 80s bring mortality into sharper focus (42:08-42:40).
• Gave up alcohol at the start of lockdown, finds it easy to stop (43:17-43:43).
• End-of-life wishes already planned:
  • Burial plot above a late friend in the South Downs; not a believer in the afterlife but open to mystery:
    • "When you die, there might be some spark of energy... wafted up and joined all the other stuff churning around in the world." (29:38, Guest)
• Continues to be socially engaged, now collecting stories of women's liberation activists at HOWL (45:22-45:35).
• On her next steps:
  • "Next today I am going to make myself an absolutely delicious sandwich which will be piled with all kinds of lovely, luscious things to eat. I love food. I don't drink, I don't smoke, I wank. But you can't do that continuously and you can't live on wanks." (45:46-46:16, Guest)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On activism: “You think to yourself, this is pathetic. But then you do what you can.” (02:39, Guest)
• On bohemian youth: “Back in the 50s, you would dress like what you thought a French bohemian woman would look like.” (03:13, Guest)
• On leaving marriage: “I felt bad because it wasn't like I was thinking, I can finally escape this horrible marriage... It wasn't an escape.” (20:20, Guest)
• On sexual awakening: “I was absolutely knocked out by lesbian sex. It was fabulous.” (22:35, Guest)
• On family consequences: “I said, you get fucked up for a lot of different reasons, not just one.” (38:31, Guest)
• On solitary pleasure: “That's what I will do next. But next in life I am working at getting going on some stuff. ... I don't drink, I don't smoke, I wank. But you can't do that continuously and you can't live on wanks.” (45:46-46:16, Guest)
• On mortality: “It's like the proximity of death… it just makes it different.” (42:40, Guest)
• On what’s left to do: “I want to see what’s going on in the United States with traffic, Trump fucking ended. And I want to see this thing in Gaza stopped right away, please now, because this is a nightmare.” (46:46-47:12, Guest)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• Opening Park Conversation & Age (00:04–01:26)
• Women in Black Vigil & Activism (01:41–02:45)
• Mother-Daughter Conflicts (04:53–07:33)
• End of Life Decisions & Dying with Dignity (08:00–10:50)
• Early Childhood & Starting a Fire (12:01–15:00)
• Nancy & Enduring Friendship (15:21–16:36)
• Coming Out and Sexual Fluidity (17:45–23:14)
• Navigating Family After Coming Out (23:42–24:23; 40:40–41:08)
• On Retirement from Sex & Last Kiss (32:53–34:13)
• Discussion of Masturbation, Sex in Later Life (35:49–36:24)
• Advice on Facing Change (37:39–38:31)
• Burial Plans and Thoughts on Spirit (25:59–29:38)
• Observations on Aging (42:08–42:40)
• On Stopping Drinking & Observing Life Around (43:17–43:43)
• Women’s Liberation History Project (45:22–45:35)
• Last Reflections & Plans (45:46–47:12)

Conclusion

This episode offers a deeply moving snapshot of a life well-lived, brimming with humor, insight, and honesty. The guest’s reflections on family, activism, friendship, aging, and love radiate warmth and defiance. For those who have ever wondered about the lives unfolding quietly on park benches, this conversation is a reminder of the wisdom and stories waiting at the heart of a stranger.