EPISODE 63: All You Need Is One Good Night

Summary

Strangers on a Bench: Episode 63 – "All You Need Is One Good Night"

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Release Date: November 24, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this emotionally candid episode, Tom Rosenthal continues his unique experiment of striking up heart-to-heart conversations with anonymous strangers on London benches. Today's stranger, a stylish, thoughtful young man, brings warmth and vulnerability as he reflects on the pivotal moments that shaped his life—spanning love, anxiety, self-acceptance, and artistic ambition. From first loves in Parisian rain to lessons in family and aspiration, the conversation is a testament to how a single transformative night or decision can redirect the course of a life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Joy of Simple Saturdays

[01:05–04:04]

• The guest shares his ideal Saturday: "Waking up with my girlfriend, little cuddles in the morning, breakfast, music, and Aperol Spritz in the sun."
• Emphasizes shared happiness: "Once she's happy, she makes you happy."
• Playful rapport over style and presence: both Tom and guest riff on ready-for-anything attitudes and the nuances of partner approval.

2. Living with Anxiety and Learning Calm

[04:38–07:12]

• Guest opens up about a recent panic attack triggered by mixing alcohol and smoking: "I had a little panic attack... ambulance came, but they said ‘you're just panicking, work on your breathing.’”
• Discusses previous insecurities and how self-work (reading, YouTube, experience) cultivated a steadier calm: "Those things that used to trigger me, they don't trigger me anymore."

3. The Journey from Insecurity to Self-Acceptance

[07:28–13:46]

• Talks candidly about past insecurities with weight, looks, and feeling like an outsider, especially being the "wingman" who could never get the girl:
  • “I thought I was too skinny... my friends would say, 'you're starving.'”
  • "Back then I never used to get no dates, no girlfriend."
• Critical turning point: the transformative effect of having sex for the first time at 23, during an impromptu, rain-soaked Paris adventure.
  • "After it happened, I was like, I feel different." [08:22]
  • Reflects: "All you need is a night, a good night, and then you'll change your life." [12:07]
• Acknowledges not telling his partner at the time it was his first time, and the lasting impact of that experience.

4. Race, Beauty Standards, and Shifting Perceptions

[13:19–13:59]

• Describes insecurity about features, lips, and being dark-skinned in the early 2000s:
  • “Back then, being skinny was kind of not a good look... Also, you know, I'm dark skin as well. And at that time, dark skin wasn't the flavor.”
• Notes the positive shift: “But now it's our turn. It's our era now,” citing growing confidence and style.

5. Pivotal Life Moments and Fatherhood

[14:15–19:30]

• Guest sees having a child as his next "virginity" or turning-point moment.
• Conversation turns to the real impact of parenthood:
  • Tom: “Having kids is a beautiful catastrophe... you take an absolute hammer blow to everything you’ve built so far, but so much of it is beautiful that it makes it fine.” [15:04]
  • Both discuss readiness, responsibility, and advice—Tom stresses "intelligent neglect" and supporting a child’s natural self.
• Guest shares his own fears about providing financially but is encouraged by Tom that fatherhood grows motivation and gravitas.

6. Artistic Ambition: The Dream of Photography

[20:01–26:09]

• While proficient at his current job, the stranger’s real dream is to become a professional photographer.
  • “Any job I do is merely just to gain money to pay the bills... I'll never feel the happiness that I would if I was a photographer.”
• Origin story: started two years ago, inspired by cinematography.
• Breakthrough moment: candid street photo of an influencer in Bond Street at Christmas, which unexpectedly brought a surge of attention and opportunity.
  • “It was just too much... I got a little bit scared.” [22:35]
• Now with more experience, he feels ready for professional commissions.
• Tom encourages a "sabbatical" approach before having kids:
  • “You need time. I’d find a way... a couple months, just go full pelt. Try everything, do everything.” [23:13]

7. Lessons from Grief and Regret

[27:09–31:02]

• Recounts the hardest time: his sister's cancer diagnosis when he was 23.
  • “I don't think I properly dealt with it... At the time I was living in my own delusion... kind of avoiding her.”
  • Feels guilt about emotional absence: “I didn't comfort her at all, at any stage... I was always just in my own denial.” [28:08]
• Tom reassures: it’s never too late to express feelings or heal sibling bonds.

8. Openness, Masculinity, and Identity

[31:02–36:13]

• Guest talks about being seen as stoic, but actually feeling deeply underneath:
  • “I’d say I’m very sentimental and emotional, but I don’t show that a lot.” [35:13]
  • “I think men in general have to deal with this... you can’t really show emotions.”
• Tom: “What makes a person interesting?... It’s simply openness. You’re open about your struggles, you’re open about stuff you wish you’d done better.” [31:02]

9. Courage, Missed Chances, and Acceptance

[32:12–33:16]

• Regrets not taking up a football opportunity abroad due to lack of confidence, but accepts it led him to new passions and loves.
  • “I wish I went, but at the same time... I’m satisfied with how it turned out.”

10. Love and the Risk of Intimacy

[37:13–38:03]

• When asked what being in love is like:
  • “It’s definitely worth it. Just having someone by your side there for the good times, the bad times, creating memories... Love is— I see why people die for it. I see why people make music about it.” [37:16]

11. Final Reflections & Advice

[25:05, 38:52]

• On photography: “Get a camera and go out... Lighting and composition— once you get them down, the rest’s just about picking a good subject. Just go for it.” [25:05]
• Final intention:
  • “What I’m doing next is become the photographer that I plan on becoming. That’s the next goal. It’s gonna happen, it’s gonna happen. I can feel it. My time, my time.” [38:54]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On transformative experiences:
  • “All you need is a night, a good night, and then you’ll change your life.” – Guest, [12:07]
• On love and happiness:
  • “Once she’s happy, she makes you happy.” – Guest, [02:48]
• On anxiety and mindset:
  • “The brain can do some amazing things to the body, can’t it? Nothing more powerful than just thinking terrible thoughts.” – Tom, [06:09]
• On fatherhood:
  • “Having kids is a catastrophe that means so much love forever.” – Tom, [15:12]
• On self-acceptance & beauty standards:
  • “Everyone now is getting lip fillers—so it’s like, oh, okay.” – Guest, [13:08]
• On regret and family:
  • “I didn't comfort her at all at any stage... I feel guilty.” – Guest, [28:08]
• On masculinity:
  • "I think men in general have to deal with this... one of the downsides of having a man tag on you, you can’t really show emotions." – Guest, [35:39]
• On creative joy:
  • “What photography is—it’s managing to capture the scene that you see with your eyes... that satisfaction is like, wow.” – Guest, [25:56]
• On courage and chance:
  • “I wish I went, but at the same time... I’m satisfied with how it turned out. That’s the beauty of life. You never know what happened.” – Guest, [33:18]
• On intimacy:
  • “Love is— I see why people die for it. I see why people make music about it.” – Guest, [37:59]

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Ideal Saturday & Joys of Routine: [01:05–04:04]
• Anxiety & Finding Calm: [04:38–07:12]
• Transformation Through Love & Insecurity: [07:28–13:46]
• Shifts in Social Perception & Identity: [13:19–13:59]
• Fatherhood & Parenting Philosophy: [14:15–19:30]
• Aspirations in Photography: [20:01–26:09]
• Regret & Family Illness: [27:09–31:02]
• On Openness, Masculinity, Identity: [31:02–36:13]
• Missed Football Opportunity & Acceptance: [32:12–33:16]
• Defining Love: [37:13–38:03]
• Final Goals & Advice: [38:52–39:25]

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Episode Tone & Conclusion

The conversation is intimate, kind, and gently humorous, with both men speaking freely, questioning their own vulnerabilities and championing the magic of sincerity between strangers. The episode closes on a note of hope and resolve, with the guest pledging to pursue his dream and openly reflect on both the pain and potential of his journey.

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If you value stories of quiet courage, the joy of connection, and the small turning points that shape a life, this episode is not to be missed.

Transcript

[A]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a go? You feeling good?

[B]

Very good.

[A]

Me and you on the bench, they only gonna happen once ever.

[B]

I remember this for the rest of my life.

[A]

Let's hope so. Let's hope so. Hey, let's do it. First question, easy. Is there a day of the week that you favor?

[B]

Has to be the weekend. Saturday. Everyone's out. No one's working when the sun is out, you know, having a cocktail. Aperol Spritz.

[A]

Aperol Spritz.

[B]

It has to be Aperol Spritz.

[A]

This is the fastest anyone's mentioned an apparel spritz. I reckon that was probably 13 seconds before Aperol Spritz came in.

[B]

Oh, has to be.

[A]

Have an apple spritz on a Saturday.

[B]

As early as you need. Once you see the sun. Apple spritz on your hands.

[A]

I love it. Take me through. What is your kind of ideal Saturday. Lived on planet Earth.

[B]

Okay. Have to be waking up with my girlfriend.

[A]

Sleep in a hold.

[B]

I mean, she likes to hold. Getting some.

[A]

You don't.

[B]

I do.

[A]

But you said she likes to.

[B]

Okay, we both like. We both like to do that. Okay.

[A]

You say you do sleep in a hold.

[B]

Yeah, we do. Yeah. Well, eventually we separate and then we go back into it. Like I'll be holding the whole night.

[A]

That's a bit much.

[B]

Too much.

[A]

But hang on. You go back into it. Like, this is without planning. It's like.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, you hold each other, and then let's say a couple hours, you let go. Obviously, you can have your space. And then once you're kind of moving around, you go, okay, let me go back into it. And then you just.

[A]

So sometimes you open your eyes. She's right there.

[B]

Yeah. She's like, oh, she's still there. All right, cool. Let me just give a little cuddle. And then we stay until I'll cuddle into the. Into the morning. She wakes up smiling.

[A]

She wakes up smiling.

[B]

We both wake up smiling. What am I trying to do here? What are you trying to do here? I don't know what you're trying to do right now.

[A]

She wakes up. Sorry, I don't know if that means it won't say you wake up smiling or not. Otherwise you would say, we wake up smiling.

[B]

She wakes up smiling. I wake up full of bliss and euphoria.

[A]

Oh, wonderful. How do you achieve that?

[B]

Make it happy. Once she's happy, she makes you happy.

[A]

It's your heart to make it happy.

[B]

I mean, once you understand someone, it's easy to make them happy. Yeah. If you don't, then of course you'll have problems. Of course.

[A]

Okay, so we've woken up. Girlfriend's smiling. You're smiling.

[B]

Of course.

[A]

It's very blissful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Then what, are we just staying in bed? Are we hopping out?

[B]

If it's a hot, hot day like this, I'll say, okay, let's have some breakfast. You put some Spotify in the background. She's getting changed, I'm getting changed.

[A]

Get changed together.

[B]

Yeah, in the room. She's in the corner getting changed. I'm in the other corner.

[A]

You comment on each other's outfit.

[B]

If she doesn't like my outfit, she'll say, yeah, I don't. I don't like this. Yeah.

[A]

And do you change it for her?

[B]

Within reason. The reason, if it's outfit I like, I feel comfortable in today. I'll keep on. But I know what type of style she likes me wearing, so I'll wear that.

[A]

So she like this?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

This kind of. This is really cool, though.

[B]

Yeah. Old.

[A]

Really, really, really nice shirt.

[B]

Yeah. Silk shirt is green and. Yeah. I got attacked into the trousers. The trousers are kind of big. And some shoes also greenish. Yeah. Yeah. Car lighter.

[A]

Green.

[B]

Yeah. White socks.

[A]

I mean, I would just say very stylish.

[B]

Yeah, Solid.

[A]

Solid and stylish.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, I'm ready for most things.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Are you ready for most things?

[B]

I'm good with thinking on my feet. Yeah.

[A]

This is perfect for you, what we're doing now.

[B]

Yeah. So I'm not. Yeah. I get stopped a lot for some reason.

[A]

I don't know, a lot as in just people just stop.

[B]

People coming to me, stopping me for. For this podcast.

[A]

This is the third one you've done today.

[B]

Yeah. I'll probably get another one in 10 minutes. Yeah. People like stopping in the street for some reason. I don't know what it is.

[A]

Friendly face.

[B]

I don't know. You know, I feel like I'm. I got a serious face when I'm just alone because I'm always thinking about something. So.

[A]

All right. What were you thinking about? When I approach you, it's a bit.

[B]

Weird, but I had a. Almost a panic attack last night.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And right now I'm still kind of feeling it, sort of. So I was kind of trying to work my breathing a little bit more. Oh, so that's what I was kind of doing while you stop me right there. But this is making me feel better, though.

[A]

Oh, that's good. Do you feel comfortable talking about the pan attack last night? What happened?

[B]

Yeah, it was kind of stupid. After work, I went to my friend that came back from holiday, went to his workplace, had a few drinks and then smoked some, you know.

[A]

You know the thing he smoked?

[B]

Yeah. He's drinking, smoke. And then, yeah, I think I got a. A bad reaction from it. Okay. And I had a little panic attack. Yeah. So I called the ambulance, the ambulance came, done some blood pressure, heart rate test, and said, yeah, you're all good, everything's fine, but I think you're just panicking, so you need to work on your breathing.

[A]

Interesting. Was that the first time?

[B]

Second time. The first time was a while ago, but, yeah, this one was.

[A]

They tell you by surprised.

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I know. I mean, I felt this happening, so I was thinking, oh, this again.

[A]

Can you put it down to anything else rather than it was what you were smoking? I'm guessing that's not the first time you had.

[B]

No, no, first time, no. But I think sometimes when I'm so high, I start thinking about, like, oh, I feel like I'm dying or I'm gonna die or something like that. Some weird thoughts. And then that's when I start panicking more because I felt half my face kind of numb. So I was thinking, oh, this is a stroke or I'm gonna get paralyzed. So that made it worse.

[A]

The brain could do some amazing things to the body, can't it? Oh, yeah, it can just knock it out. Nothing more powerful than just thinking terrible thoughts.

[B]

Yeah. So, yeah, I think that's what it was for me. Kind of just putting bad thoughts in my head. Yeah.

[A]

What else makes you panicky? Generally. Anything else to kind of set you off?

[B]

No, no, no, no.

[A]

Otherwise you're quite relaxed.

[B]

Yeah, most likely very chilled. My deaf will tell me I'm too calm. Oh, she's full of emotions. I'm just always just this monotone.

[A]

Do you feel like that is true?

[B]

Yeah, I mean, I worked on it for a while.

[A]

That implies that maybe you weren't calm before that.

[B]

I was calm, but not as calm as I'm now because before I was sort of insecure. I felt like there was still a lot of insecurities where there's like certain things were triggering me. But now I just kind of worked myself. So now those things that used to trigger me, I don't. It doesn't trigger me Anymore.

[A]

How did you kind of work through those? What was the method?

[B]

Just read books and watch YouTube videos and just live life. Once you live life, you got a lot of experience under your belt, and then you just feel good by yourself.

[A]

Yeah. Do you mind me asking what you're insecure about? What were you.

[B]

Sorry. First one was my weight. I thought I was too skinny. I used to get drunk a lot. My friends are, you're skinny. Or this. You're starving. So that used to get to me sometimes. And my looks as well. Because before, I never used to get. No dates, no girlfriend. No one was interested in me, so I felt insecure. But my friends were going out on dates and, you know, having fun. I was always the. Kind of the wingman. Yeah. Kind of, because I'm good at interaction with people. So I used to be the ones to break the ice between everyone.

[A]

Oh, that's sweet.

[B]

Sweet. Yeah.

[A]

But always the bridesmaid, never the bride vibe.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And what was the turning point then?

[B]

Honestly, I think was when I lost my Jimmy. After that, it was like, I'm the man.

[A]

Okay. That is a classic term.

[B]

After that. Yeah, it was out. Yeah.

[A]

It was actually the next day, literally.

[B]

After it happened, I was like, I feel different.

[A]

You know what? Actually, I'm glad you mentioned that, because I think it is. I can only speak from the male experience. Yeah, obviously. But I think before you do lose your virginity, at least for me.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just remember just thinking about it so much.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Like, such a. Like a constant of, like, they're doing it over there. I'm not like, you want to be on the side of the river so desperately.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I suppose it's kind of for. For good reason, in a sense that you've just shown, like. Yeah, it, like, helps. You're going to unlock something.

[B]

Yeah. I think it takes a. A large weight off the shoulders because I lost it when I was 23.

[A]

It's quite late.

[B]

Ish. Yeah.

[A]

So that's a bit mean of me to say.

[B]

It'S fine, but.

[A]

Yeah, no, no, it's not. Maybe it's not late. Maybe that's me, actually, so maybe I should take that back. I feel bad now.

[B]

When did you lose it?

[A]

17.

[B]

Oh. Yeah.

[A]

That's kind of.

[B]

That's kind of early. Yeah.

[A]

But, like, I feel like. Yeah, it's funny tonight it's fine. But I mean, did you. At that time, did you feel that was like.

[B]

Of course. All my friends have done it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I was the only one you can.

[A]

Ask a personal question, but, like, sure. Like, how did you eventually just do it?

[B]

Oh, it was by, it was by accident. I know it sounds weird, but it was, it was not planned at.

[A]

Oh, we see.

[B]

Because there was a point where I had a friend from France one week I was feeling depressed, so I was like, you know what, I'll skip work for the week and just go there next day, went to Paris. Here. We went out having a good time. Show me around Paris. And then we got back to the house and then it was just long T shirt on, give me the look. I was like, okay, what's going on here? And then. Yeah, we just, it just happened. It just, it just happened. I don't know, maybe because we, we spent like a sort of romantic day. Yeah. And then we had a little intense moment before we got to the house. So she lives kind of away from Paris. So you have to take the train.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

The last train was I think at 9:38. We have to get to the train and it take like 10 minutes and we're like 50 minutes away. So we took an Uber. There was a massive traffic. It was pouring down the rain. Like literally like a blizzard of rain. And she was panicking. She, I don't feel we'll make it. Cuz if you couldn't make it home then we would have been stranded the whole night. We said, you know what, let's run to the train. We got the cab and start running, running, running, running, running. And we literally got to the train as the door was closing. So it was sort of kind of like a movie moment and covered in brain.

[A]

So you had a bit of a buzz. Yeah, pre.

[B]

Yeah. And we got to the house and then I think she kind of just felt the whole day was kind of just kind of good.

[A]

But it was a kind of surprise to you.

[B]

Yeah, because I didn't know what was gonna happen until she just started kissing. Okay, we're doing this today. All right. All right, let's do it.

[A]

I suppose it's funny, isn't it, that that's so what happens in life, isn't it? That you know, you, you probably built up to this moment for so long and then suddenly it just happened and you weren't even expecting that.

[B]

I think that's the best way to do it. I, I just think you stop trying to force it.

[A]

Yeah. Completely.

[B]

It'll happen.

[A]

It's so hard not to. Right. But I mean, of course, I guess you feel very warmly towards this person.

[B]

Yeah. I, I, she doesn't know it's my first time. She actually Thought that I done it multiple times.

[A]

Oh.

[B]

But she doesn't know yet. It's my first time and to this day I don't think she knows.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But I mean, so she. But she. You. But you've like.

[B]

Sorry.

[A]

I mean, her being with you in that occasion.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Has that made a massive difference though?

[B]

It did. And I remember her fondly for the rest of my life. Like she's literally. I think she's the reason why I'm the way I am now. Wow. If it wasn't for her, I'd be.

[A]

Just that one occasion.

[B]

That one occasion. It was a big occasion.

[A]

But it just goes to show, one occasion. Maybe only need an afternoon.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, our time was a night time, but yeah. All you need is a night, a good night. And then you'll change your life.

[A]

All you need is one good night to change your life.

[B]

Amazing.

[A]

And also you. I mean, Paris.

[B]

The train. Train.

[A]

The Eiffel rain.

[B]

Eiffel Tower. The rain. That.

[A]

That's the train and the rain.

[B]

It was like pouring down the rain.

[A]

Unexpected.

[B]

Long T shirt, long T shirt came in the room. I was like, oh, this is. This is. Something's happening. I thought something happened. I thought something happened in my nose.

[A]

I love that. I actually love it. The weight thing, is that also connected to the virginity thing? Same or not?

[B]

I think the weight thing is sort of just because I think back then I think being skinny was kind of not a good look.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I used to be insecure with my looks as well. I just get teased a lot about my lips because I have bigger lips. And it's funny now because everyone now is getting lip service and lip fillers have bigger lips. So it's like, oh, okay.

[A]

Crazy, isn't it? Yeah.

[B]

And also, you know, I'm dark skin as well. And at that time, dark skin wasn't flavor is normally, you know.

[A]

What time are we talking about?

[B]

Early 2000s.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Until like 2010. So I think now dark period of.

[A]

Life was that for use?

[B]

I was like 10 to 18. Yeah. And you know, dark skinned guys wasn't the flavor. It was leave on white guys or mixed race. Light skinned guys. But now is our turn.

[A]

Like dark skin moment.

[B]

Yeah. It's our. Is our era now.

[A]

When did you feel like the. The tide had turned?

[B]

I don't know. I think it's recently. I'm getting more looks now.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think that also I grew my hair out. Got dreads now. Yeah. So I kind of look distinguished.

[A]

Distinguished is a good word. And I agree that's why you stopped me. What do you. There you go. What do you do with all these looks you get? Just bank them.

[B]

No, it's like. Yeah, okay.

[A]

For the self esteem.

[B]

Low self esteem boost. Yeah.

[A]

What's your next virginity moment? I don't know. An event, a shift.

[B]

I think probably if I have my first child. I think that will also change me completely as well. I think that's the next one. I think that's the next thing that.

[A]

Can we do it with current girlfriend?

[B]

Yeah, of course. I hope so. I mean she wants children as well.

[A]

Tonight.

[B]

That's too early, man. That's too early. Lasting about tonight, playing some FIFA, not about having a child. Like I was thinking about FIFA. I was talking about no children. I wasn't thinking about that.

[A]

You do both of the same time, you know, call a kid FIFA.

[B]

Yeah, that could happen. You never know. Have you got kids?

[A]

I do.

[B]

Would you say is a turning point in your life?

[A]

I would.

[B]

In a good way or bad way? Cuz it can be both can be played.

[A]

Oh, good way. Definitely a good way. You know, I mean it's. Having kids is like a catastrophic thing to do to your life.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it's like a beautiful catastrophe. You know, it's a catastrophe that means like so much love forever.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But it also is. You are just taking an absolute hammer blow to everything you've built so far. But there's so much of it is beautiful that, you know, it makes it fine.

[B]

Was you ready for it?

[A]

Was I ready?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I just think you're never ready. But also, you know, here's the beautiful thing. I think you're never ready, but you are always ready. You know, if you think, if you think about how much child rearing has had to happen for us to be on a bench here.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Think of all those people. So really, if I hand you a little baby now, you know, you might be confused for, I don't know, 20 minutes. Then you'll very quickly be like, oh, this actually feels kind of normal.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

It's amazing how natural it feels. So. Yeah.

[B]

Would you have any tips?

[A]

Maybe you're gonna do it tonight. Me too. What about babies in particular?

[B]

Just raising our child.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

Have you got any couple?

[A]

You know what? The only thing I would say that make you feel more relaxed is you are not in charge with how the child turns out. You're not building someone's personality. They come out pretty much done. They're going to be what they gonna be. You are in charge of to whatever extent you possibly can be their happiness, their well being. You see what I mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you think of it like that, it takes a bit of the pressure off because if you're like, oh God, I've got to, I've got to show them this and do this and do this, a thousand things and you know, make sure they're good at this, make sure, you know, that's a part of it. But really it's just letting them be what they were always going to be. A lot of it is about. There was a phrase quite like intelligent neglect which is, you know, the idea of not interfering too much. You know, you don't need it. Doesn't need it. Just being, just being present really.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

People can make it really complicated but it's, it doesn't have to be like that. I don't know if that helped. Is that at all useful for you to hear?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, I hope so because a lot of people, they want to mold.

[A]

Their kids to be exactly, you know, like, oh, I think they should be a Premiership footballer or things that maybe they didn't do or you know, they think of like as another shot, you know? You know what I mean? And all that is just putting pressure on something that it might not be. They might just be something entirely different.

[B]

That's a very good tip.

[A]

Yeah. What are your fears of it? Any other fears?

[B]

Not be able to provide them financially, the things that you need to do. Because you know, of course I work, but I don't think I'm ready for a child financially. That's a problem. And if she stops working then I'm. I'm in charge of kind of bringing the money. Yeah, that's a big, big step. Yeah. So I'm not trying to get a child when I'm not financially ready.

[A]

Yeah, appreciate that. You know what, you know, the good news is that when you do have kids, I find you, you gain whole other levels of motivation. Yeah. One motivation. Two other people take you more seriously. If you think about who the people are that give out the jobs and the money, they're mostly people who are older and might be parents and so you as a father are X amount more trustworthy because you have this huge responsibility as in like and you're looking after that. So the people that actually give out the dosh are more likely to give you more. Does that make sense? Like I think it's like, you know, you grow a weight to your, to your presence and your work that I feel isn't there before. Plus it's one person.

[B]

So the first thing I should put on a CV is I have a child.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I'm a father, so I'm a father. I got presents now, more money now.

[A]

Give me the moolah and that's it. Are you good at your job, whatever it is?

[B]

Yeah, I think I'm too good now where I just mess around. Wow. I can go there half asleep. I still do the work perfectly.

[A]

You're a surgeon?

[B]

Yeah, pretty much, yeah. I've done it for so long now, it's like I can. It's kind of second nature to me now. Wow.

[A]

Does that mean you need to not do it?

[B]

I think I need a change.

[A]

What am I going to change?

[B]

I'm not sure because honestly any job I won't be happy in because I want to be a professional photographer one day. So any job I do is merely just to gain money to pay the bills. So I'll never feel the happiness that I would if I was a photographer.

[A]

Why can't we be a professional photographer? Maybe you need a baby.

[B]

If the baby has connections, yeah, that'll help a lot. Yeah. But photographer, you need a lot of connections, a strong social media following. Putting yourself out there takes time.

[A]

When did you first become excited about photography?

[B]

Two years ago when I started the whole journey.

[A]

What set you upon your journey?

[B]

I've always liked cinematography, photography stuff. Yeah. So I like, you know what, let me invest in the camera and start doing it properly and then after that I just fell in love with it. Every time I'm day off I go outside and just practice my photography and yeah, ever since then I haven't stopped. I've enjoyed every single second and I think if I was had more of a following and more opportunities to do like brand work and stuff like this, I think that will of course make me much more happy. Sort of like your podcast, like you started it. I know under 150.

[A]

Yeah, 150 people I spoke to. What was the first shot of yours where you felt like wow, like I, I really feel this, like this is something to be excited about. Do you remember that shot?

[B]

Yeah, I'll say it was, it was in Christmas, Bond street. The area is very, very popular in Christmas. Cuz the lights are all out and I saw this girl walking. I do street photography, I do like candid photos and I saw this girl with a friend walking and posing in front of the building and I kind of took a snapshot of her. I looked at, I was like wow, this is really good, really good. So I went up to her. And I showed it to her. She goes, oh, this is really nice. Send it to me and I'll, you know, I'll post on my Instagram. I didn't know who she was, but she ended up being, like, a famous influencer. She had, like, millions of followers. And then she posted it on a story, and then a lot of her followers start following me. And then I got a lot of DMS saying, oh, can you do a photo shoot for this? Can you do a photo shoot for my brand? I know. Honestly, I got overwhelmed. I was like, yeesh, this is just too much.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I was like, I'm not really. I can't do it. Sorry. I was kind of rejecting everyone. I got a little bit scared. I can't lie. It was just too much.

[A]

What were you scared of? You didn't.

[B]

There's too much attention. Just way too many. And I don't think I was ready for, like, a photo session of a brand because that means your photos have to be good because someone's paying for you to do your work.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I just do the fun.

[A]

But, yeah, that's a kind of a sign that it's possible, right?

[B]

Yeah, very possible. Just one, you know, it's one show. Yeah. One shot. That's what it takes. Yeah. I always remember that day.

[A]

I mean, if the same thing happened today and you got offers or whatever, would you feel confident enough now?

[B]

Oh, yeah. Now I'll be very comfortable.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

This was a year ago. So now I've been doing it for a while, and I've been doing more photo shoots as well with my friends and random people.

[A]

So here, my take, of course. One, I think you should go for it. And I think you should go for it pre kid, because kid will mean you. You're too focused on just getting that solid money, and you won't, you know. Two, it's time. You need time. So I don't believe you can ever, like, really give something a go if there's not the time to do it, to grow. It's about growing confidence, isn't it? So I'd find a way. However you do this, I don't know if it's possible with your job or not, but, like, to see how long you can ask for off. A couple of months, three months. Just pretend, say something's happening, whatever. Make up an excuse, Just lie, really. And then with those two months, whatever, you just absolutely go full pelt. Try everything, do everything. Every day on it. Every contact. Like, just absolutely. Because momentum is what gets you Places.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But if you have to keep stopping, like with jobs and other stuff and I go, then it's just not going to go anywhere. I mean, you've got a really good presence to you. I know quite a few photographers.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I kind of think on the whole, what makes you great photographers as much as it is lining up a shot. Presence is the key, you know, am I going to feel relaxed, am I going to feel inspired, am I going to feel excited to be in your company? Do you know what I mean? And you've got a lovely presence to you. I feel like. I don't know, I think it's kind of all in your hands, really.

[B]

Hope so. Hope so.

[A]

If anyone's listening and they'll be like thinking about getting into photography but they haven't dived in yet, what would you say?

[B]

Get a camera and go and shoot to work in book holiday for two weeks and just go out, practice composition, knowing how to use the light to your advantage. Those, I think those two are the most important parts. Lighting and competition. Once you get them two down, then the rest is just all about picking a good subject. And I said, just go for it. Any camera, any 500, 200 pound one, people can get a cheap camera. Make look, make it look better than any expensive camera out there. Yeah.

[A]

Can you, can you try and describe what the key joy is for you in taking a photograph?

[B]

Managing to see a scene that you see with your eyes but transferring it down to the camera, that is a very good pleasure that you get. Everyone can see a good scene and look at and say, wow, this looks amazing. But if I give you the camera, you can't capture the same scene that you had in your head.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So I think that's what photography is. It's managing to capture the scene that you see in your eyes that you love so much and transferring it to your camera. Beautiful. And shooting it.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I think once you get that is the satisfaction is like, wow.

[A]

Yeah, that's lovely.

[B]

And also capturing those special moments as well. Because I love doing candid photos of people just doing random stuff. And once you catch a great shot of someone just doing something or having a certain facial expression, it's like, oh, it's amazing. Like a little, little buzz.

[A]

Beautifully described. Were your parents big photo? Like anyone?

[B]

No one at all?

[A]

No one.

[B]

I just love, I love movies. I love watching movies in cinema and I love how they shoot the frames to kind of convey certain emotions and that's how I fell in love with it.

[A]

What's been the Most joyous moment of your life.

[B]

Has to be that France trip. Virginia one.

[A]

Okay, I'm gonna ask you a different question. Okay, let's flip it then. Let's flip it. What's been the most difficult day of your life?

[B]

When my sister had cancer.

[A]

What age are we talking?

[B]

I think I was around 20. 20. 23, 24.

[A]

She was or you were?

[B]

I was right, 23. Yeah. I'm 30 now.

[A]

Calculations.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Good age.

[B]

Yeah. At my prime peak times. So yeah, I think that time when I can't say was difficult because it just. I mean now I. I don't think I properly dealt with it. I haven't really had a day where I just thought about it properly. Cuz at the time I was sort of living in my own delusion. Like there's nothing wrong with it, but there were times where she's either like coughing out blood or like crying a lot. I don't think it's nice, but I was kind of avoiding her or avoiding being in the house. And just when she's there with my sisters and my family, I'll be in a room just with my headphones and just.

[A]

You're trying to like block it out.

[B]

Block out, yeah.

[A]

Do you feel any remorse for that? Any kind of regret?

[B]

Yeah, I didn't come for her at all, at any stage because I think my sister see me as this kind of this stoic, it shows no emotion type of guy. So she never really asked. Asked me for like a hug or can you help me? Nothing like that. She normally went to my sisters or my mum. So when everyone was comforting her through a hard time, I was always just in my own denial.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Is she. Is she. How is she now?

[B]

She's fine. At least had a baby though, a couple days ago.

[A]

Okay. I mean, it's never too late to address it.

[B]

I don't know how can you start though.

[A]

Or you just say, I wish I did that differently or I'm sorry if I did. If you feel like you want to. But I'm not saying you should apologize if you feel like that. And that's on you. You know, there's a lot of life we've got to carry on our shoulders. Anything that we can lighten, we should lighten.

[B]

Yeah, I know. I think it would be difficult. I honestly don't know how to even start a conversation like that.

[A]

Well, you just sit down and go, look, I've been thinking about this. Here's some thoughts. She might have been quite happy that you were quite stoic. Maybe that was Kind of useful.

[B]

I mean, maybe you.

[A]

Maybe you were so emotional that you actually couldn't. It meant too much to you to show it or something, you know, as well, like.

[B]

Yeah, I'm not really good at expressing sort of like comfort or sadness. When something's bad happened to my family, I would just try to ignore it. Even when I was younger, my parents used to argue a lot, fight a lot. I'll just literally go in my back garden and start kicking the football.

[A]

Yeah, that's the way of coping, isn't it?

[B]

Yeah, that's how I cope with things. Just pretend that it doesn't exist. Yeah.

[A]

Did you still do that now?

[B]

I don't know. Because nothing's may just happen in a sense.

[A]

I mean, not so too pop psychology stuff here, but bad stuff will happen again.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It depends who you want to be when that happens. You know what I mean?

[B]

Yeah. I mean, since I got my girlfriend, I think I'm expressing more feelings. Yeah. So I think if something else happened, I think I'd be more emotionally available.

[A]

That's lovely.

[B]

Comfort.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah. So we have to see. But yeah, I'll definitely have a conversation with her because I feel like I need to, because I feel like as a sibling, you should be there to comfort your sisters or brothers. And I didn't do my job, so I thought, I feel guilty.

[A]

You okay? Dinner, 10 minutes or so. How long we got? If you were boring, I would have. I would have been gone by now.

[B]

I mean, in your opinion, what makes a person interesting?

[A]

You know what? It's simply openness. You're open about your struggles, you're open about stuff you wish you'd done better, stuff that you're insecure about. You know, all these things which we all have, none of those are like, kind of remarkable. But what's remarkable is someone who's open about it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And if you're open about it, then you're extending an olive branch to other people listening because they're like, well, I could feel that too, is the bridge.

[B]

Yeah. Would you say more people are open in your podcast?

[A]

Yeah, I would say most. Most people will be open. Yeah.

[B]

I mean, I thought this is easier for me because I don't usually talk about this stuff with anyone.

[A]

Yeah. Well, that's perfect. There is a beauty of talking to someone you don't know.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's rare that we speak to someone in a kind of a free way, you know, I mean, and that's quite liberating, I suppose.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But anyway, thank you very much for being Open.

[B]

Oh, man. Thank you for asking me. Ask me for this podcast. It's been a great pleasure.

[A]

Wow, this is a great time. Can you think of a time in your life you wish you had more courage?

[B]

Yeah, I'll say. When I was about 18 to 20, because I played football as well, and my dream was actually originally was to be a footballer.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. I basically got accepted to go to a club in Croatia, professional. But then I turned it down because didn't have the courage. New country, new culture. I didn't know how it was going to turn out. And I was still in my comfort zone in London, so I was like, you know what? I just turn it down. So I wish I went to see what. What would happen.

[A]

How do you think your life would have been different?

[B]

I feel like I wouldn't have experienced the great moments I've had. I think the France situation wouldn't happen. I wouldn't have probably met my girlfriend. I wouldn't be here talking to you, probably. So I wish I went, but at the same time, it's like, yeah, I'm satisfied with how fun it turned out and I probably want to start photography as well.

[A]

So maybe it was good. You didn't have the courage.

[B]

You never know. That's the beauty of life. You never know what happened.

[A]

Yeah. What's it like being really good at football?

[B]

I mean, London's a big deal. If you're good at football, you get respected and. Yeah. So it feels good to train at something that you're good at. Yeah.

[A]

Do you still kick a ball anyway?

[B]

Yes, I play some pro now.

[A]

What is semi pro?

[B]

It's like you're playing a few leagues below professional as a pilot.

[A]

Well, it looks like a pilot. No, it's that pilot outfit.

[B]

He's a long way from. Not a long way from the airport. It's a long way from the police.

[A]

It's not a pilot.

[B]

Not probably cosplaying for his wife. His wife probably likes this.

[A]

It's a sexy thing.

[B]

Yeah. Little turn on. I'm there to judge.

[A]

You don't look like that. Yeah, she's on the phone, I think. She doesn't look that excited about the cosplay. You ever cosplayed as a footballer?

[B]

Not yet.

[A]

Your girlfriend has asked to wear the kit.

[B]

No, I mean, I. I don't really watch me play football.

[A]

You don't let her watch you?

[B]

Yeah, she.

[A]

You don't want to.

[B]

That why? It's game time. Focus.

[A]

Yeah. What, are you gonna be too distracted?

[B]

Yeah, I don't have to be screaming, asking stupid questions. Because I like to like, yo, leave me alone. I'm trying to focus on this. I'm in a different mode.

[A]

Who are you when you're playing football?

[B]

Then I'm a beast. Very grumpy.

[A]

Very grumpy. Really?

[B]

Very grumpy.

[A]

Does that mean you're enjoying it?

[B]

I'm enjoying it, but that's just my game time. I'm not trying to have no jokes, no around. Win this game, play well, love it, do that.

[A]

But just in photography, you become a professional photographer.

[B]

I'm trying, you know, I'm trying to transfer that. That kind of hunger to this. Do it.

[A]

That's it. Is there anything that people don't know about you that you wish they.

[B]

I say I'm very sentimental and emotional, but I don't show that a lot. I would hope one day people know that I'm more affectionate.

[A]

It's a funny thought that, isn't it? Actually, they look at you and go, oh, he's quite stoic. But actually you are maybe even more emotional. It's so emotional you can't show it.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Because you're worried about what it looks like.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You're basically the opposite.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

To what they think you are.

[B]

I mean, I think men in general has to deal with this. So I think that's one of the downsides of having a man tag on you, that you can't really show emotional emotions and stuff. One day maybe I'll just change and open up a little bit more and not worry about the judgment.

[A]

But is there a way of, like, just saying it to whoever? Like, look, I'm not as that as you think I am, rather than, like, being actually emotional? You start. At least the first point is just. It's just to talk about it. I don't know.

[B]

But do you think they need to know? Like, if they're happy the way you are, do you think they need to know?

[A]

That's a really good question. I think it's really important to be as understood as possible. And it's dangerous when we feel that distance and we sometimes can feel isolated with it. So it's like, health wise, it's probably better that people know you the best they can. The right people. Not everyone. Not everyone has to know you, but the people you care about.

[B]

Yeah, that is true. Sometimes I feel like, oh, I'm misunderstood. And sometimes that can get annoying as well. Or I just move on from it. It's like, okay, it is what it is. Yeah. This is the character that they think I am. So I'll play it for a while.

[A]

Okay. I'll ask you one more question. Then we get to the final question. What should I ask you as the last good question?

[B]

That's up to you.

[A]

I know. Pressure.

[B]

No pressure. No pressure.

[A]

What does it feel like being in love?

[B]

Oh, it's definitely worth it. I always thought I'd be alone. I'd be like, I saw a bachelor just going around. Because being in love, of course, comes with risk. Your heart will get broken, and of course, no one wants that. But I would definitely say it's definitely worth it. Just having someone by your side there for the good times, the bad times, creating memories. And it's better than going on these random dates with random girls because there's no substance to them. There's no weight in love is. I see why people die for it. I see why people like making music about it. I mean, how would you say. Would you say love is worth it?

[A]

Oh, for sure. That was a bit of answer. I. I've got nothing to add to that. Great answer.

[B]

If you're.

[A]

Actually both got green and black on.

[B]

Yeah, the green and black combo right here.

[A]

Destiny.

[B]

Yeah, it's fate.

[A]

How's been Destiny?

[B]

Yeah, I think it was because I was actually about to walk away as well. I was kind of sitting down here for like five minutes to charge my vape and I don't know, Cypher just told me to stop day. And I think that's God's telling me my Samaritan.

[A]

Here he comes.

[B]

Here he comes with the podcast.

[A]

Oh, wonderful. Well, it's been absolutely, really such a pleasure to talk to you.

[B]

I was as well. Thank you for stopping by, giving me a chance to talk.

[A]

Yeah, I'm really on your team. I think you're going to do great things.

[B]

Hope so.

[A]

Last question for you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

Either answer this in a big way or a small way.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

What are you going to do next?

[B]

What I'm doing next is become the photographer that I plan on becoming. That's the. That's the next goal. It's gonna happen. It's gonna happen. I can feel it. My time, my time.

[A]

I believe. I believe.

[B]

So there you go. He believes, too. So, yeah, I have to make it now for the listeners as well. I'll make it for you guys.

[C]

Met a stranger on a bench that day he said I like the sunshine Quiet Saturdays Talked about a calm he had a build inside From a storm that once left behind his eyes.

[A]

Used.

[C]

To hide his face from mirrors in the crowd for the skin too dark his laughter too loud but he's learning how to let that go like a photograph in morning glow and he said love's worth it even when he hurts a bit you run through the rain and somehow you don't quit Every fear, every miss leads them closer to this just breathing believe in the living a bit. Paris lights and a train a catch the kiss in the rain no strings attached didn't know then what he knows now the heart finds courage when you let it out he missed some chances hell this time Watched his sister fight and stay too young now he's learning not to look away to say the words he couldn't say love's worth it even when it hurts a bit smiles you somehow you fit with a hands in his hand and the light just right he's framing his future in the softest light he believes and this time he'll act on it oh oh, oh, Sam.