EPISODE 65: The Thirty-Seven Club

Summary

Strangers on a Bench

Episode 65: The Thirty-Seven Club
Host: Tom Rosenthal
Recorded: December 8, 2025

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Overview

This episode of Strangers on a Bench centers on an open, deeply honest conversation between Tom Rosenthal and a London stranger (pseudonymously dubbed “Brass”) as they share a park bench. The discussion weaves the stranger’s life story—from a tough childhood marked by family trauma and care homes, to forging a path as a dad, partner, electrician, and lyricist. At its heart, the episode is about perseverance, the cycles of family, how we find connection, and the shadow cast by inherited legacies, particularly surrounding the age of 37—a number heavy with meaning from his family’s history.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

Tuesdays: The Worst Day of the Week

• Opening Banter & Theories on Days
  • Brass expresses an unorthodox hatred for Tuesdays, defends Mondays, and humorously deconstructs the week’s “emotional” contours:
    • "Monday, we know Monday. Wednesday’s halfway through...then you got Tuesday, the bastard. See you next Tuesday, innit?" [01:26]
  • He admits this idea is likely self-fulfilling:
    • "Because I spoke it into existence...it's probably gonna be the shittest day." [01:52]
• What Makes a Good Tuesday?
  • His ideal is simple: a day off from work, coffee and maybe a joint with his wife, music and PlayStation, time for reading. [02:30–02:53]
  • Touching on his eldest son preparing to leave home, Brass reflects on the shifting quietness of family life. [03:11–03:37]

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Family, Relationships & Connection

• Partnership Dynamics
  • Brass shares the mundane intimacy of married life—breaking the ice after arguments with jokes and laughter:
    • "I'll just go in and laugh at her...and she’ll go, 'fuck off.'...just normal stuff, man." [04:34]
  • On their relationship’s strength:
    • "She’s like the female me, I’m like the male her...If the core is there, the faff can be sorted out." [05:33–05:39]
• First Meeting with His Wife
  • A chance encounter at a house party while in a sling post-boxing injury led to a lasting connection. They didn’t exchange numbers initially, but reconnected weeks later. Together for 17 years since. [06:02–07:14]

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The Weight and Legacy of 37

• A Family Pattern & Anxiety
  • Both his father and grandfather died of heart attacks at 37. As the eldest son, Brass internalized this family “curse”:
    • "He actually told us when we were kids that when he was 37, he'd die of a heart attack. So he did." [07:31]
    • "So I had it in my head for years...at 37 I was gonna go." [08:09]
  • Surviving past 37 lifted a significant weight:
    • "On my 37th birthday...my brother phoned me up. 'You made it.'...So on your 38th birthday, do you remember how you're feeling? Brass: Great..." [09:09–09:34]

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Trauma, Childhood, and Forgiveness

• Growing Up in and Out of Care
  • He narrates being in care due to family need and authority intervention, describing running away from both home and care—always hungry, sometimes battered by staff, yet steadfastly rejecting victimhood:
    • "Listen, Tom—there’s kids around the world...worse than what I’ve had. I’ll never use that as an excuse." [15:27–16:37]
• Resilient Independence
  • Eventually, education and work provided an escape. He became a self-funded student and a fully qualified electrician:
    • "I'm a fully qualified electrician...I come from nothing. I didn't have no GCSEs. I barely went to school." [16:37]
• Finding Mentors
  • Support from elders on building sites and workplaces proved crucial in absence of parental guidance:
    • "Some of the older people on the building site, they see what I'd go through...They were there in a soft moment, told me to go home when I tried to show up to work after my dad died." [16:47–17:26]

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Relationship with Father & Grief

• Difficult Upbringing & Cycles of Abuse
  • His father—traumatized in turn—struggled with love, poverty, and dependency. The burdened relationship changed for the better shortly before his passing, but his death left unanswered questions:
    • "We’d forgive him for what he done...Questions happen after someone goes, you never truly get over grief." [11:34–11:51]
• Memorable Moments
  • Favorite childhood memories involve simple joys—playing football, buying toys, and shared nights gaming as his father became isolated and malnourished. [12:11–12:58]
• Cycle Broken
  • Brass is proud of ending cycles of violence:
    • "Our kids have never been hit, never been shouted at. They're lucky that we turned out all right." [12:58–14:01]

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Partnership As Anchor

• His Wife as the Rock
  • He attributes much of his strength and stability to his partner:
    • "She's a rock...One of the best things that happened to me. No judging." [18:24]

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Fatherhood

• Early Parenthood and Meaning
  • He became a young father because of longing for stability after a turbulent youth.
  • While the first partnership didn’t last, he always prioritized his child. He later embraced a blended family—raising stepchildren and having another child. [18:38–20:41]
• “Motley Crew” Family
  • Family gatherings are rare as adults, but all remain connected. He laments social media’s emptiness compared to real contact:
    • "I can't stand it. I'm here if you want to speak properly, phone me up or text me. I hate it, Tom." [21:25]

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Music, Passion, and Health Scare

• Dual Identity: Musician & Electrician
  • Brass raps about life, politics, and emotion.
  • He shares a health scare (H. pylori infection after allegedly being spat into his burger) that brought him close to death or perhaps triggered a panic attack.
  • He recites a moving, rapid-fire verse written in the aftermath, filled with metaphors about mortality and gratitude for his wife’s support:

    "Crawl along the floor / Is this what they call dying? I ain't giving up now / I know what they call trying / ...My real angel is the wifey answering my siren and my ambulance beside me...” [23:41–24:24]

  • The experience leaves him physically and mentally changed, less fearful of death, and more focused on his family and unfinished business:
    • "If it was close to death, it made me not scared of death." [24:26–25:02]

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Work, Pride & Advice for Youth

• Proud to Be an Electrician
  • Achieving his “gold card” marks a high point, after self-funding his training:
    • "That was probably the best thing...I thought, you can't take this away from me. I can always work." [27:06–27:36]
  • He advocates for building trade apprenticeships as pathways for troubled youth:
    • "All these kids...if they're not so intelligently good for other jobs, give them a building site...get some programs for them." [28:00-28:24]

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Scars and Markers: Tattoos and Memories

• Prison Tattoos
  • He briefly touches on time in a young offenders institution, marked by a hand tattoo symbolizing his isolation:
    • "That's me in the middle and four walls...it means you're in the wall, isolated." [29:15–29:30]
  • Narrates the comedic story of stealing a car, forgetting their cigarettes, and returning to the scene of the crime. [29:51–30:11]

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Vivid Memories: Trauma and Joy

• Harshest & Happiest Moments
  • Most vivid memory: holding his mother after a suicide attempt as a young teen. [30:25–30:48]
  • Joyous: births of his children, watching his youngest’s grip on the delivery room scales. [31:39–32:10]

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Outlook: What Comes Next?

• Final Reflections
  • What’s next for Brass? Simplicity, stability, and kindness:
    • "I just want to chill, Tom. I just want to have a good life with the missus for the rest of it. I want my kids to achieve...but still be humble and never let anyone else struggle if they can, because I'll help anyone." [32:39–33:16]
  • On the experience:
    • "It was quite good, actually. I'm glad I said yes." [33:16]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Tuesdays & Existential Tuesdays:
  "Monday, we know Monday. Wednesday's halfway through the week...then you've got Tuesday, the bastard." – Brass [01:26]
• On Family Cycles:
  "His dad died at 37...then my dad died at 37...so I had it in my head for years…at 37 I was gonna go." – Brass [07:31–08:09]
• On Grief:
  "You never truly get over grief, do you? Because the day comes back." – Brass [11:43]
• On Breaking the Cycle:
  "Our kids have never been hit, never been shouted at. They're lucky we turned out all right." – Brass [12:58]
• On Partnership:
  "She's a rock...No judging." – Brass [18:24]
• On Facing Death:

  "If it was close to death, it made me not scared of death." – Brass [24:26]

• On Simple Ambitions:
  "I just want to chill...go work, make your money, go home and chill. There's not much more I do want..." – Brass [32:39]

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 01:26 — “Tuesdays are the worst" / Theories on the Week
• 02:30 — Ideal Tuesday / Morning Ritual
• 03:11 — Empty Nest & Quiet House
• 04:34 — Breaking Ice After Fights / Partnership Dynamics
• 06:02 — Meeting His Wife / The House Party
• 07:31 — The “37 Club” Family Legend Begins
• 09:34 — Relief at Reaching Age 38
• 11:04 — Learning of Father’s Death / Unresolved Grief
• 12:11 — Pleasant Childhood Memories with Dad
• 14:11 — Meeting a Partner from a Different Background
• 15:27 — Life in Care, Breaking Cycles, Education/Work
• 18:24 — Wife’s Support / Her Role in Transformation
• 21:25 — On Social Media & Family Contact
• 23:41 — Health Crisis & Original Rap Verse
• 27:06 — Pride in Electrician’s Gold Card
• 29:15 — Tattoos Symbolizing Isolation / Young Offender Memory
• 30:25 — Most Vivid (Traumatic) Childhood Memory
• 31:39 — Joyful Birth of Children
• 32:39 — What’s Next / Simple Goals

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Episode Tone

Insightful yet down-to-earth, the episode moves fluidly between heavy, heartfelt confession and dry, often self-deprecating humor. Brass’s Cockney warmth, resilience, and openness, combined with Tom’s gentle curiosity, create an intimate and atmospheric snapshot of a stranger’s life—an ordinary person with stories that both hurt and inspire.

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Closing Words:
A resonant exploration of inherited trauma, survival, resilient love, and the understated poetry of everyday life. As Tom succinctly puts it:
"...a couple of strangers on a bench."

Transcript

[Tom]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question?

I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a.

This is the first time I've been in front of a baby photo shoot.

Have you ever taken part in a baby photo shoot? We should be in the badge up with this. We should get involved.

[Brass]

No, I've never done one of those.

[Tom]

That'd be quite good.

[Brass]

Maybe when I was young. Yeah.

[Tom]

Yeah, I suppose. It's sweet, isn't it?

[Brass]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Start question. Do you have a favorite day of the week?

[Brass]

No, but I have a day that I don't like. Oh, I think Tuesday's the worst day of the week.

[Tom]

Love it.

[Brass]

People say Monday, right? But Monday, you know what Monday is? Monday, we know Monday. Wednesday is halfway through the week. Good day. We're halfway there.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Brass]

Thursday, the day before Friday, it's a great day. Friday, obviously, a great day. Saturday, a great day. Sunday, a day of rest. And then you got Tuesday, the bastard. Just sitting in between the day that you think is bad, which is Monday, and the good day, Wednesday, but it's really Tuesday. That's what I say. See you next Tuesday, innit?

[Tom]

Yes, of course, of course.

[Brass]

That's my theory for that.

[Tom]

That's fantastic. Have you ever had a particularly shit Tuesday?

[Brass]

No. I think I'm well aware that because I spoke it into existence, that Tuesday is the shittest day. That it's probably gonna be the shittest day.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Brass]

I mean, me, if I come out my house and I'm in a bad mood, say, yeah. I say to myself, and I actually do. I'll say, come on.

[Tom]

Come on, mate.

[Brass]

And I cheer myself up. It's energy, innit?

[Tom]

On a Tuesday?

[Brass]

Yeah. Or any day. You know, I say that Tuesday is the worst day. But I could have a good day on Tuesday and I could have a bad day on fucking Friday. You never know. Do you know what I mean?

[Tom]

Okay, let's use Tuesday, then, for the next question. Let's imagine a Tuesday occurs. No one's telling you what you're going to do with this Tuesday. What for you would be like the best day, the best Tuesday you could have.

[Brass]

So it'd probably be, obviously not going to work. The first thing I do is get up, say goodbye to my son, because he'd go to school.

[Tom]

Okay, so what time are we getting.

[Brass]

Up if I'm not working? I'd probably get up about 8 o'. Clock. Then the missus would obviously go to work, but we'd have a coffee together. That's what our usual morning thing is. We'd have a coffee and maybe a sneaky joint. Nice, maybe. Don't know, it depends what day. Definitely a Tuesday.

But I suppose my day would be. I don't know. I like music. I like a bit of the PlayStation. Not too much, but I'd probably do some mixing and writing. Read a book, maybe, something like that. I mean, I'm 40 years old now. My boy's the last boy to leave home because the other two have left.

[Tom]

Oh, God.

[Brass]

So you've got three kids. They've gone. They're all doing their little bits and bobs. So he's the last one now. He's 15, does his GCSE. So my outlook at the minute is not about myself, it's more about making sure he's ready to go. And me and the missus are a lot more lonely now. You have to understand, we was going to have more kids and then we said, now we'll just. We'll stop at the three and the four. We got three and I got one with another lady, so. So we thought we'd stop at that. But we wish we'd had more now because the house is quiet.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Brass]

And it's different. So that's why when you ask me what would I do, I thought you put me on the spot, because I'm thinking, I know what I do within the house because I've been in the house for the last 20 years. I get up, I go to work and I go back to the house. Do you know what I mean? So the last time you said.

[Tom]

You say goodbye to him when he goes off to school.

[Brass]

Yeah.

[Tom]

What does that goodbye look like?

[Brass]

It would just be, have a good day, son. And he'd be like, all right, dad. If I try to argue or kiss him, he wouldn't have none of that. So it's more just to let him know that someone said goodbye to him.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Brass]

And for me, in a selfish way, for me to say goodbye to him as well. You all go your separate ways. Anything could happen throughout the day. Do you know what I mean? So that's what the Mrs. Says. We never try and go bad on an argument. We argue. Don't get me wrong, not everybody, but we try not to go bad on an argument.

[Tom]

Don't mean you stay up late.

[Brass]

I like that. No, but I mean, one of us will break the ice. Usually that's the Good thing we're best mates. We're all right. I do her heading, she does my heading. We love each other and we don't really.

[Tom]

What's the best way of breaking the ice?

[Brass]

I'll just go in and laugh at her. Just stand at the door and just laugh. And then she'll go, fuck off. And I'll be like, what do you mean, fuck off? And it'll just be like, oh, shut up. And it'll be all right. Do you know what I mean? Just normal stuff, man. Normal stuff. You look too deep into some of this stuff. It just does your reading.

[Tom]

Yeah. I mean, arguments kind of have to happen, don't they? They're kind of crucial.

[Brass]

I was watching someone and they said, for a good relationship, you can disagree on what you want to watch on TV or what you want for dinner, but you have to agree on basic life principles. If you're with someone that likes politics and the other person that you're with is on the other side and you're really both into it, you're going to be constantly at loggerheads, aren't you? If you don't like fucking fish fingers and she doesn't like fish cakes. Well, you could have your fish cakes and she can have fish fingers. It's easy. It's salted, isn't it? Yeah. And me and her, we're the sort of same, we half look the same. It's weird, you know what I mean? So we're not related before. Before you ask the next question.

But yeah, I mean, we just. She's like the female me, I'm like the. The male her sort of thing, you know what I mean? So we.

[Tom]

That's perfect. Yeah, I completely understand what you're saying. I think it's like if the core is there or the bits of faff can be sorted out.

[Brass]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Now, do you remember your first moment of connection with her?

[Brass]

The first time we saw each other? I used to box and I just had an operation. I'd had a dislocated shoulder from boxing. It was in a competition. I got to the semi final, dislocated in the first round.

[Tom]

Oh, that's not good.

[Brass]

This geezer just beat the out of me. It was. I was just covering up. I survived to the end of the round but it was done. So anyway, I got this done and my trainer was with a. With a lady called Rachel and my Mrs. Was her best mate and my trainer was sort of. My best mate, was going around doing stuff together. Anyway, I had a sling so I Was not ready to meet anyone. I was just. I hadn't trained for a bit. I weren't feeling well. Yeah, I was a bit depressed because I couldn't do anything.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Brass]

So my mate was like a house party come round. I said, I'm not coming around there. I said, state of me. He said, we'll just come around, chill out, have a couple of joints or something. I said, oh, whatever. So I went round there, go in there, and I sit on her sofa. First thing she does is come up to me and start. And we just. Like I say, there was something there, There was something there. And then for two weeks, we was waiting to see each other again because we didn't take each other's number. She asked me to stay that night.

[Tom]

And then I said, leslie can't do anything.

[Brass]

She was still into me. So she was like, all right, fair enough. And we never bothered. And two weeks later, we met at a mutual gathering. And, yeah, the rest was history. Haven't been apart since 17 years, I think now.

[Tom]

Amazing.

[Brass]

So, yeah, beat me. Mum and dad. Mum and dad were together 11 years after.

[Tom]

Did you phone them up?

[Brass]

Resting in peace now. But she's.

[Tom]

Yeah. So the old man's gone.

[Brass]

He's gone 37. He went, you're very young.

[Tom]

Well, that is young, isn't it? How old were you?

[Brass]

18, 19. He actually told us when we were kids that when he was 37, he'd die of an art attack. So he did. He knew this his whole life for some reason, really. His dad died at the same age, 37, of a heart attack, having a drink. The story, the family story, goes that the granddad was at the bar with his pint, had the heart attack, died, fell and kept his pint up. We get older and realize it's bullshit. But that was a story for years.

[Tom]

Potentially possible if we had a pint now. We would try it out.

[Brass]

But fast.

[Tom]

So you were told. And when you were told this, do you remember, like, how you felt about it?

[Brass]

A lot of us, we had a hard life. Me and my siblings, we was in care a lot. My dad was a nutcase. Do you know what I mean? So we were getting told so much, it was just another thing that we got told. But it's stuck in my mind because his dad died at 37, my mum was pregnant with me and he was 18 19. Then my dad died at 37, my missus was pregnant with my one and I was 18 19. So I had it in my head for years. I'm 40 now, so I've got three years past it. I had this thing in my head for my years at 37, because I was the oldest. I was gonna go, shit, that must have been.

[Tom]

Your 30s were a bit stressful.

[Brass]

It was the 36th year leading up to 37. It was like.

[Tom]

Did you think you actually might.

[Brass]

Yeah.

[Tom]

I mean, if you're. If it's been like.

[Brass]

Yeah, because it's programmed in you in it. I've been down so many rabbit holes. I used to be in a few conspiracies, this, that and the other. And I realized that we get programmed, don't we? We can program ourselves to fucking believe something and to hate on something.

[Tom]

It's a powerful bendable beast up there.

[Brass]

Proper. The reptilian complex. Do you know what I mean? It's not a joke. But, yeah, yeah, it was quite depressing. The missus knew it, everyone knew it. And I got a couple of calls from family who knew. So on my 37th birthday, my brother straight away phoned me up. He's like, you made it.

[Narrator]

I said to him, right, I've got to get to 38.

[Tom]

Yeah, you've got it at 38 is the birthday to say that on, you know, life. So on your 38th birthday, do you remember how you're feeling?

[Brass]

Great.

[Tom]

You're like, well, I've dodged that one.

[Brass]

Yeah, 100%. Yeah, I really did.

[Tom]

By the end of the old man's life, did he. What was this, you know, as when he died?

[Brass]

Cool. He started getting cool again and he was a frail shadow of himself because he was really in love with my mother. This was the thing. And I love my mother, but, you know, they're young, things were going on and things was happening. And I remember him dragging us up the road to certain houses or trying to find someone. And when I look back now, I realize she was probably doing the dirty and he was walking up the fucking road with four kids trying to find it. It was just. But he never really got over it, you know what I mean? So frell. Just malnutritioned. We thought it was something worse, they said. No, he was just.

[Tom]

We wasn't eating, not really.

[Brass]

Not properly. He was. He was a gamer, Tom. He would sit up and play his fucking game. That's all he had, you know what I mean?

[Tom]

Do you think he wanted to die?

[Brass]

Dunno. I hope not, but who knows? It's the thing. You never really know in it. As a dad. If I wanted to die, I'd never tell my son. But at the same time, I think to myself, if I was a dad, I'd never want to die because I want to be there for my son.

[Tom]

Do you remember the day he did that and what you're doing?

[Brass]

Yeah. I was with the first Mrs. I was with and my mate knocked on the door and told me. Yeah. Took me a while to get over it, to be quite honest.

[Tom]

Why? Did your mate know?

[Brass]

My mum lived somewhere and he was in the same block of flats as my mum and I was staying with the girl and I wasn't really talking to my mum at the time, so my mum had contacted him in the flats and actually what she told him was, can you bring him to me? Don't tell him. But when he come to the door and he was going, your mum wants to talk to you, I was like, I'm not dealing with that. Whatever. He couldn't get me out the door. I'm not, I'm not listening. It's mad. It's the first time I talked about actually, Tom, what's.

[Tom]

What didn't you sort out with your dad?

[Brass]

Many things, but we'd forgive him for what he done. But.

Questions happen after someone goes, this is the thing. Yeah. You never truly get over grief, do you? Because the day comes back.

[Tom]

Of course.

[Brass]

And when the day comes back, it's going to jog your memory or you might see something. I see myself as quite an odd man.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Brass]

And a hard cased man. So it's hard for me to cry, easy at something. But if I see a kid that's lost his dad on tv, it'll jog your memory or something.

[Tom]

Do you have any. If I were to ask you for kind of a really pleasant memory with your dad, what would you do?

[Brass]

I go into the park and stuff like that. Playing football when we was younger kids and stuff like that. When we was like six or seven, went to Woolworths and bought some wrestlers and I didn't realize that paper money was as much as pound money, so I had like five pounds and five pound note and I got one wrestler with the five pounds and I was like, oh, I can't get the other wrestler. He's like, no, that's the same as that. And that's when I started really. It's only young, do you know what I mean? Loads of little bits. Even when I used to go out there, because he used to live in a dingy fucking bed sit when he left. But I'd go up there every other week or whatever and I'd stay on the sofa, we'd play Games all night and stuff like that. I wish I'd said other stuff. I wish he'd told us how bad he was because we didn't realize how malnutritioned he was and how he wasn't looking after himself until after. I mean, we knew we could see.

[Tom]

But he never, never said it.

[Brass]

He never said any. He never asked. We gotta remember we as kids. I was the oldest and I was 15, so we didn't know what to do. It was our dad, it was just my dad. Dad was dad. If it was me now and my brother was going through the same thing and his kids were there, I'd say to my brother, bro. But he never really had no one around him to say, bro. His family, he treated us the same way his family treated him. My brothers and sisters broke that cycle. Our kids have never been hit, never been shouted at. They're lucky that we turned out all right. You know what I mean? I've done some bad stuff and had a bad life, but we got job, we got family and we got a future. Do you know what I mean? So completely, yes. I've never had to shout or scream at my kids like that. I would never forgive myself. Yeah, that's enjoyable. They used to tell us it was so hard, my mum and dad bringing us up. And I'm not saying it wasn't. It's back from the old school. Anyway, I'm 40, so when they were bringing us up, it was the 80s and the 90s. I don't know. It's a mental thing, isn't it? They both had bad stuff done to them as kids, of course. So, see, the Mrs. I'm with now, she's had a lovely life. She was brought up. And her parents, great people, lovely people. Not posh, just solid people. It's beautiful. They included me with everything. Maybe if I got with someone that was like me, there'd be issues.

[Tom]

Do you think you saw that early in her.

[Brass]

No.

[Tom]

Here's someone that's really got this solid bit.

[Brass]

No, I don't know what I was looking for, because the first lady I was with, she was a nutter, do you know what I mean? And at that time, I was probably a bit of a nutter. And it was just two.

[Tom]

Two nutters.

[Brass]

Two nutters clashing. She was an only child, so she had that thing and I was like, too emotional, Wear my heart on my sleeve. And she used to use that, you know what I mean? Whereas this lady, like I said, the first time we see each other, it's like There was something there. Do you know what I mean? And there's never been. We haven't really been apart since.

[Tom]

That's absolutely lovely.

[Brass]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Can you tell me a bit if it's not too painful, the bits of your childhood with your parents where you know you're being put in care, is that up to them or is that an authority that did that?

[Brass]

Both. There was times when we went into care for respite where they give them a break from looking after the kids, basically. And then in the end we were taken into care and we was all splitting up. There's no way it weren't going to happen. And we was running away from home and children's homes as well, so it was.

[Tom]

Oh, you running away from the care.

[Brass]

Homes or the home home and the care homes? Both. Yeah. Because we. The time I went into care, it was like my mum and dad had gone, Tom. And I was like this. I ain't listening to no one as an adult. Now I look back and realize it's a stupid decision. As a 14, 15 year old kid, you don't really give a shit. Who the fuck are you telling me for? But these people were just trying to help. Of course, luckily I was in a care system. None of these people ever tried to touch me, ever try to do nasty stuff. We got the shit kicked out of us. Don't get me wrong. Food. We was always fucking hungry. We used to steal food out of bloody cupboards. They used to batter us for it. When I think back, I think I was only fucking stealing it because I was hungry. You weren't fucking feeding us. It was punishment. It weren't because they never had the food. Sometimes. Sometimes it was punishment. But listen, Tom, there's kids around the world, right, that are in 10 times worse than what I've had. I'm only telling you this because you've asked for the comment. This would never come up in a normal conversation with me. I will never ever use that as an excuse. I've come from the shittiest of the shittiest. I've put myself through college. I'm a fully qualified electrician. I've got my gold card, I've got my shit. I come from nothing. I didn't have no GCSEs. I barely went to school. I'm hardened. I don't know how I'd be if it didn't happen to me.

[Tom]

Now, did anybody who was not your parent? As in, what am I asking here?

[Brass]

A couple of people helped along the way.

[Tom]

Who are those figures? And what do they do? What do they mean to you?

[Brass]

Some of the older people on the building site, they see what I'd go through or see that I was a little tear away. Just people like that, to be quite honest. When my dad died, I remember crying on. I was on a site, I was 18, 19. And I thought this fellow was like a bastard and he was like a big geezer and all that. And I try to stop him from seeing me because I just got told. I'd try to go to work the next day and he would come up and he was the softest ever. And he was like, what you doing? So my dad's died. It's like, you shouldn't be here. Go home. Do you know what I mean? So things like that. But I've never wanted to take too much help in a sense as well, Tom, because I think, oh, my dad's watching. You're my dad. I don't wanna. It's mad. Like.

It's mad.

[Tom]

So you see him watching and you're like.

[Narrator]

I'm not really a believer in religion per se.

[Brass]

I believe there's a creator. We was brought up as Catholics. My mum's Irish. But I mean, I see a kid die outside the school at 11 years old. And that's when I thought, there ain't no God. Walked across the road and got run over. We had to go to his funeral. The school made us go to his funeral. It's like a thing for everyone to go to. I didn't know this kid. But then we was in the funeral, I started crying, Tom. Why am I crying? Because it's mad, isn't it? It's the end. That's when I realized, probably the first brush with death, maybe knowing what death is as a kid.

[Tom]

So you helped your. Yeah. It's so interesting. So you. So you've. So you've done it all yourself. But also. What? But I'm interested in these other roles because obviously your partner, what role she played in all this?

[Brass]

She's a rock.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Brass]

Yeah. She's like. I say, she's one of the best things that happened to me. Do you know what I mean? No judging. No, no, no, nothing. Simple as that. I can't really explain it. I don't even know how to.

[Tom]

What about having. How old when you had your first kid again?

[Brass]

Yeah. 18, 19.

[Tom]

And so what did that mean? What did that do for you in terms of.

[Brass]

I always wanted a kid because of what we'd been through. I wanted to be older. I wanted to shave I wanted to go to work, I wanted to have my own money, I wanted to have my own place. I wanted to have my own sovereignty. Because we'd never had it. We'd been passed around in the system from pillar to post. You're looking for a fucking canary at the end of the mine or whatever. Do you know what I mean? So when he come, it was great. Loved it. That's all I wanted. Fortunately, the lady I was with, we never got on. So the irony was I wanted to have my own family, had the baby, went to work, giving her everything she wanted, but it wasn't enough for her. And she used to stay at her mum's all week. I used to pay the rent on the house. She'd come up on the weekend, I'd give her some money and then she'd go back to her mum's for the rest of the week. Because she was young. She was fucking 18 as well. Do you know what I mean? So she wasn't. I was ready for that, but she wasn't, of course. And in the end, we split up. Do you know what I mean? It was hard for me to see my boy. It was really annoying. Now he's grown up, it's a bit easier, but, you know.

I haven't got too long, Tom. I've got to be honest.

[Tom]

How much longer you got?

[Brass]

But I should be back now.

[Tom]

Can I. Can I borrow you for a bit longer? Is. Is there any way. How. What can I. What can I do?

[Brass]

I'm text my man and tell him I'm at the bank. I'm going to lie.

[Tom]

Thank you so much.

[Brass]

I don't want to lose the bloody job that I like.

[Tom]

Don't lose the job. Do not lose the job. So you had kids and that gave you something to focus on, so something to support?

[Brass]

Yeah. 100.

[Tom]

And that was kind of crucial because.

[Narrator]

Whether I was going to be with.

[Brass]

The lady or not, I was always going to do what I could do for the kid.

[Tom]

So the kid was the main outcome, 100%. And then not that long after, you would have had another kid with the.

[Brass]

No. So my oldest. Oldest boy is my stepson. She had the two kids when I met her, who were three and four.

[Tom]

I see.

[Brass]

You understand. So I brought them up and then we had a child together.

[Tom]

Okay.

[Brass]

Which is the youngest one I was telling you about? 15.

[Tom]

So you've got this kind of bit of motley crew of family.

[Brass]

Yeah, we just.

[Tom]

Do they all get. Do they all together?

[Brass]

Yeah.

[Tom]

I didn't know whatever they have time. But they all together.

[Brass]

Yeah. Christmases and things like that. You gotta understand this day and age, trying to get them all together every weekend. You're never gonna. It never happens, all right? It's never gonna happen because they're doing their thing, aren't they? They're probably sitting in their beds on their stupid Instagrams or whatever else they're doing. Like this. I've got Facebook and Instagram on here. I used to use it for my music, just to try and promote music and stuff like that. But there's family on there that I've not spoke to for years. And they'll like a picture or whatever, but they won't answer a phone. I hate it. I can't stand it. And I've always said, I'm here if you want to speak to me properly, phone me up or text me. I hate it, Tom.

[Tom]

Totally with you. You're right. It looks like social, but it's not.

[Brass]

No, it's anti social. Yeah, that's it.

[Tom]

That's it. We started calling it that.

So you're a musician, but you're also an electrician?

[Brass]

Yes.

[Tom]

Beautiful combo.

[Brass]

Yes. I'm a rapper about politics, life. I tell you what. I got an infection six months ago. I caught H. Pylori. Someone spat in my burger. I ate the burger. I felt something pop. When it happened a week later, I went to the doctors because I felt like I was getting stabbed. I was pale as a ghost. They put me on vitamin D, they put me on two courses of antibiotics and it was done. But the point was, that night it happened, I collapsed and I crawled along the floor to get to the missus and said called an ambulance and I was in, like, shock. She calmed me down. I didn't call the ambulance in the end. The next day, I went to the hospital and told. He said I had a panic attack. Tom. I've never had a panic attack in my life. I've been through some of the biggest shit. Never had a panic attack. I said, listen, there's something wrong. He said, I've been a doctor for 25 years. I'd know if there's something wrong with you. I said, I'm telling you, I can feel it. There's something going on here. Week later, he texts, he says, oh, you got H. Pylori. I went on to see him next. I said, you said you'd been a doctor for 25 years. What are you talking. I was all cool about him. I was like, mate, but, I mean, I'll give you a little Piece of this quickly and this was how I felt and this was sort of this can show you how you'll see how I feel about the Mrs. Crawl along the floor Is this what they call dying? I ain't giving up now I know what they call trying tunnel vision for that door Will she wake when I call Crying visions of the father spectating the shit that I in and at that minute my mind's weak those thoughts flying Falsifying that little devil with more lying murder, death, kill I took a breath but more dying Talking down a chest my only crowd the floor lining now that's the closest to the bottom I have ever been I've had it hard but this nightmare I could never dream Aware of my facade would catch the coma if I fell asleep A life of playing hard But I turned pussy at the final leap Because I was scared do you know what I mean? It's slightly shocking I mean more than how my body felt and anybody else the screaming SOS has probably felt that they may need help deserving on an angel hell but I can't wait on prayers they say the answer is to save yourself maybe that's a lie I think my angel is the fairest sex awareest More than sex whenever we would ever share a text I'm slowly sinking in this carpet burning waves Try surf correct and now I'm hoping that my message in this bottle's Hope she's not my M Celeste I've got faith I'll get the strength no Mary Jane to calm my stress that door handle seems out my length I still don't want to wake the rest Breathe honor in my silent breath and looking on the bright side I suppose it's not a violent death.

So I'll play a Hail Mary Play my quarterback can run it back Memories must have photographs and at once they all go snap it's well scary need open arms to catch collapse sentries under Solar Blast It's 3am My night went black the witching hour I'm not right in just surviving I consider giving up but the door opens lets the light in the metaphors unwinding My real angel is the wifey answering my siren and my ambulance beside me so it was her coming to rescue me Me trying to crawl along this floor at that time when it happened I just felt about my dad and I thought this is it, this is happening.

[Tom]

Yeah, doing that was the panic maybe.

[Brass]

But did she save me? Was I about to go? Because if I was really about to go Tom death weren't that Painful. It was just scary. It was a.

I'm lost, it's done. Do you know what I mean? So if it was either a panic attack or it was close to death, and if it was close to death, it made me not scared of death.

[Tom]

So that's a big moment. Has your life been different since?

[Brass]

I mean, physically change diet and stuff like that? Because I've had to. Mentally, it's made me think, you know, I better make sure I've done everything I need to do with my kids. My Mrs. And the Mrs. The whole time was like, you're gonna be all right. Stop being an idiot. You're gonna be all right. I can't.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Brass]

I said, I've never felt like this.

[Tom]

I've never understandable that you feel like that.

[Brass]

I'm telling you, it was. It was scary. It was scary, man. Proper scary.

[Tom]

Well, I'm glad you made it out the other side, brass.

[Brass]

Oh, am I?

[Tom]

And a beautiful bit of writing to go with it. Yeah, Maybe it was worth it just for that.

[Brass]

I've got many albums and many writings and I've got a thousand tracks on that phone. I'll never record them all before I die, but I'll always keep writing. And then I'll give it, the phone to my kid and he can give it to the grandkid and have a look.

[Tom]

Do you have any grandkids?

[Brass]

Not yet. Stop that.

[Tom]

You excited?

[Brass]

I am and I'm not. Same, innit? It's the same thing, innit? Yeah, 100%. We'll have the baby the whole time. If we could have it.

[Tom]

What would you say are the benefits of being a young parent? You obviously really aren't anything in touch with the kids.

[Brass]

More in touch with what's going on. The words we use ain't that far apart, but I think my mum and dad, they're like, Mumsy and Dadsy. I'm a dad, but I'm just. I look like a geezer. It's weird. And my missus is like, she'll still put on a trainers in a tracksuit. And she's like, we still feel young. Do you know what I mean? It's weird. We don't feel like a mum and a dad. We're just floating through. I don't know, mate. I can't explain.

[Tom]

It's played it well. He's played it well. He just explained it really well.

[Brass]

I'm 40, I still feel 18, man. You feel as old as you want to make yourself out to be, don't you? Do you know What? I mean.

[Tom]

Can you tell? I want to ask one question about being electrician.

[Brass]

Go on.

[Tom]

How's it been?

[Brass]

Good. I like electrics. I like science and physics and stuff like atoms.

[Tom]

If I said to you the most joyful experience of being an electrician you can think of, what would you think of?

[Brass]

Probably getting my gold card the first time. It's a card. You know what gold card is?

[Tom]

I think I've heard of it, but.

[Brass]

It'S basically a card that you qualify, you get the card.

[Tom]

Oh, you actually got it on you.

[Brass]

Yeah. And that gets you the rate.

[Tom]

Let's have a look. Oh, nice.

And it is gold as well, isn't it?

[Brass]

Yeah. So that was probably the best thing because I paid for college myself because the company I was with, they wouldn't take me on as an apprentice. So I used to work for this company when I was like 18, 19, I think I was on 6, 7 pounds an hour, just like laboring about. And I took one day a week off work and would go to college.

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Brass]

And then after the three years, I passed and I got me card.

[Tom]

Do you remember how you celebrated when you got it?

[Brass]

I don't think I celebrated too much, but inside looking at it, I was just like, yes.

[Tom]

You felt proud.

[Brass]

Yeah, fucking right, man. That's my trade. I thought, I've got to where I need to be, regardless of not going to school. We got. I was really clever and because of what happened, it just all went out the window and I was just so happy I got this. I thought, you can't take this away from me. I can always work. Do you know what I mean? It's just. It opens a lot of doors. And this is another thing about kids not working. Right. Any little shit bag leaving school can pick up a plank of wood, right?

[Tom]

Yeah.

[Brass]

Any little tosser can do it. Right. I've done it. Right. I was a little tosser doing it as well. I was a little scrawny little shithead and I just wanted to work. All these kids, if they've got nothing to do and they're not so intelligently good that they can go in these other jobs, give them a building site. They're paying decent money now. I think there should be some sort of program to get kids into that, because I know these kids. I've been one of these kids. Let's get some programs for them. Otherwise they're going to go and do whatever else.

[Tom]

I like that.

[Brass]

They're going to copy that over there. Copy him over there. He's got that I want that. Got no job. Oh, take it then. But I think, I think society needs shit, doesn't it? In the way they run the country, the way they don't want to help. They say you can't help everyone because there's always ulterior motives to what's really going on, isn't there? Do you know what I mean?

[Tom]

You got an alien on your hand.

[Brass]

Yes, that was from Newquay. Went to Newquay recently, so got one of them.

[Tom]

Fantastic. What's on the other hand?

[Brass]

That's me in the middle and four walls.

[Tom]

Oh, beautiful.

[Brass]

No, me in the middle. Yeah, and four like prisoners.

[Tom]

Oh, sorry.

[Brass]

Beautiful.

[Tom]

No, sorry. I thought it meant the kids. Sorry. But how? They're not walls, they're dots.

[Brass]

Yeah, but that's what it means. It means you're in the wall, isolated.

[Tom]

Have you been in prison?

[Brass]

Yes.

[Tom]

When was that?

[Brass]

14, 15. Got locked away. It was quite surprising. I held back the crying when I see the 30 foot fence that I couldn't get to climbing. That was one of the first things.

[Tom]

I realized really, what do you do to get in there?

[Brass]

Putting myself at risk. I was in children's zone. Kept running away. So they lock you up basically.

[Tom]

What was the furthest you ever ran?

[Brass]

We did steal a car once. 14 years old, so we got quite far and then we forgot our roll ups at the children's home. So what do you think two dickheads did?

[Tom]

I had to go back.

[Brass]

I'll never forget it.

[Tom]

I'm going to close my eyes. I'm going to ask you to close yours.

[Brass]

Yeah.

[Tom]

And then I'm going to ask you.

[Brass]

To.

[Tom]

Paint a picture of a scene from your past.

[Brass]

Yeah.

[Tom]

That comes to you that you can remember in the most vivid detail.

[Brass]

Yeah.

[Tom]

Hit me.

[Brass]

I think the most vivid memory for me would be my mum overdosing and me holding her in my arms, calling an ambulance for her. My siblings running around not knowing what the fuck was going on. About the age of 12, 13 probably.

[Tom]

What do you remember about that room at that moment?

[Brass]

I remember it was in the hallway. I remember she come down the stairs saying she'd taken him and then she just collapsed and then must have been my brother come down behind her screaming and then obviously phoned in an ambulance and just hold there, just holding her. Yeah.

Loads of stuff. I remember my dad battering us because I got into the bath with my pants on when I was six. I forgot to take my pants off and he beat the out of me.

That's vivid. Listen, I love that.

[Tom]

Any good? Any good?

[Brass]

In the end. I love that, man. Yeah, right. When. When. When I grew up and think things happened, he had bad happen to him. Right. It's no excuse, but I get it. I understand. But towards the end we were cool and it's just how life goes. We had all that go on, we got cool and then he died.

[Tom]

But good that you got cool eventually.

[Brass]

Exactly that. Do you know what I mean?

[Tom]

Any happy memories that you think of, Vivian?

[Brass]

Oh, yeah.

[Tom]

The baby.

[Brass]

The baby coming out.

[Tom]

There we go.

[Brass]

Easily. Yeah. 100%.

[Tom]

We're talking about. First one.

[Brass]

The first one. I remember that vividly because she was screaming her fucking head off. She was in labor for hours. Yeah. She had natural birth, but then the missus had little J. He was a whopper. Nine, pound fourteen. That's how much he weighed. Put him in the scale thing and then he just grabbed onto the scale, like on the side of it, his hand thing, you know, that was.

[Tom]

Oh, he's Griffon.

[Brass]

One of the best. Yeah, definitely, man.

Tom, I've got to go.

[Tom]

You gotta go?

[Brass]

Yeah, I've got it.

[Tom]

I've got to ask you one more question, which is the end question.

Either answer this to the now way or general way, or both.

[Brass]

Gone.

[Tom]

What are you going to do next?

[Brass]

I don't know. Like I said, I think.

I just want to chill, Tom. I just want to have a good life with the missus for the rest of it. I want my kids to achieve anything they want to achieve, get everything they want, but still be humble and never let anyone else struggle if they can, because I'll help anyone. I haven't got loads of money, I haven't got loads of this and that, but if I can help someone, I'll help them. Do you know what I mean? Just live my life, man. I've had a shit life as it is, like back in the day, so I want the later stages of my life. Just want to chill and go work, make your money, go home and chill. There's not much more I do want, you know what I mean? I want to win the lottery, obviously, but don't we all?

No, I'm inspired. This is quite. It was quite good, actually. On. I'm glad I said yes. Let's have the chat, to be quite honest.

[Tom]

Very, very nice to talk to you.

[Brass]

Very nice to talk to you, man. Appreciate you. Appreciate.

[Tom]

Appreciate you too. Beautiful.

[Narrator]

And this is bench work, but we push conversations and you may wait first. Then comes the inspiration. Talking heads in different destinations. Battering stress via vocal creations. At first, it feels it could be danger because your mother told you not to talk to strangers. Perhaps, though we could be neighbors. Share the roast Pass around like hot potatoes for as long as it takes to be courageous Sharing hobbies, time spent on a new day the closest ones will always help find a new way seven Day Theories let's not talk about Tuesdays Just weed no boozy commoners muck no bouget musical electrician barking on a death note Crawl along the floor as you hold my heart in escrow make it to the misses Is my best hope Never bank on death and sink the evil float Stories of vertical pints operating energy through a surgical mind Deal with the questions you'll be surprised what you find Many seek and have tried A listening ear can help unravel the times so as a chapter closes the grill have vent my stadium has lights don't worry it's not the end it's not so much a sold out event it's just a couple of strangers on a bench so as a chapter closes the grill have my stadium has lights don't worry, it's not the end it's not so much a sold out event it's just a couple of strangers on a bench Manifesting memories at request before you realize you're spilling out your best you're comfortable once you understand the intent Repairing periodic start backing up your metal heavy loads lift and get left with the lead the reptiles in us all a complex that never falls Waterworks show you claim you're not sad at all this wanderer's not foreign don't wrestle with his cool it's nutrition for the soul and banishment of the ghoul who cares for a pissed off teen a tear away sweet 15 only my dreams agree reality's diseased you must keep belief but trust me believe Emotion remission there's no cure for the grief from boys to men from voice to pen it's a choice again A real mother and father's love does not pretend the apples of my eye the fruit will blend Guardians mistakes learn from that shit will not happen again ever pushing forward 40 still gold like Jiv Trials and tribulations A recipe for ink and tree setting the scene floating serenely Get a good queen and trust me, it's easy so as a chapter closes the grill have vent my stadium has lights don't worry it's not the end it's not so much a sold out event it's just a couple of strangers on a bench so as a chapter closes the grill have vent my stadium has lights. Don't worry, it's not the end. It's not so much a sold out event. It's just a couple of strangers on a bench.