EPISODE 68: I Hate This House

Summary

Strangers on a Bench – Episode 68: "I Hate This House"

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Date: December 29, 2025

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Episode Overview

In this deeply candid and often humorous episode, Tom Rosenthal shares a bench with an anonymous older woman whose reflections weave together themes of family, class mobility, regret, identity, and the enduring friction between personal values and lived realities. The conversation traverses her love for walking, complex family dynamics, culture clashes in marriage, class consciousness, parental regrets, and the persistence of unfulfilled dreams—anchored throughout by Rosenthal’s gentle, insightful prompts. The episode’s emotional center is her conflicted relationship with the home she’s lived in—and disliked—for 45 years, serving as a metaphor for larger compromises and costs in life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Joy of Walking & Solitude

• Favorite Day: The guest immediately picks Friday—formerly the “lightest” day at the end of the work week, a mood she still feels in retirement (00:49).
• Ideal Friday Routine: Walking (up to four hours with breaks), exercise, chats with her husband, chores, and reading the paper (01:19–01:49).
  • She prefers solo walks: “Quite happy walking by myself… just love sorting out your head time.” (03:30)
• Walking as Therapy: She uses walks to process family issues, especially the balance between helping and interfering (03:42–03:59).

2. Family Interference and Regrets

• Self-admitted ‘Interferer’: Cheerfully admits to being a nosy, interfering, controlling person—in her words, “a seriously big interferer,” though only 1 in 10 interventions are successful (03:59–04:08).
• Struggles with Control and Letting Go: Her finest hour was “having the children and being in control… As soon as they start to assert themselves, I’m thinking, oh my gosh, what’s happened?” (05:18–06:18)
• On Parenting Then vs. Now: Believes modern parents are overwhelmed by information and obsessed with doing things “right,” whereas her strategy was simpler, “If a baby cries, feed it… It’s just a baby crying.” (04:54–05:18)

3. Class, Mobility, and Values

• Marriage Across Class Lines: Reflects on moving from a “working class existence” to middle-class, via marriage to a “frightfully charming” and privileged husband (08:23–09:19).
  • She feels her opinions and outlook are often misaligned with her current social circle.
  • “I don’t like privilege. Privilege really gets my back up. I hate, hate, hate privilege.” (12:49)
• Loss and Regret: Feels she’s lost part of herself and her principles after transitioning to the middle class—most painfully, her political ambitions: “I would really, really have liked to go into politics—I’m opinionated, I’m gobby… I would fight your corner really hard.” (13:28–13:43)
• Conflicted Parenthood: She never told others her children went to boarding school: “I was so, so ashamed. I just felt a failure as a mother then because what mother would send her children away to boarding school?” (24:11)

4. Marital Push-Pull & The Loathed House

• Relationship Dynamics: The guest describes herself as more assertive, often the “fall guy” doing the ‘dirty work’ of confrontation—while her husband remains universally liked and charming (27:27–28:20).
  • On concessions: “He will concede small things to me, but the major things in life… he has.” (27:27)
• The House as a Metaphor:
  • “I hate this house”—said every morning for 45 years, having stayed because money was tied up in paying private school fees (26:03–26:51).
  • “I’ve lived in a house that I’ve loathed for decades in order to pay for something that I didn’t value.” (26:08)
  • Moving finally becomes her “big project” for the next year (50:20).

5. Principles, Compromises, and Evolving Views

• Values Breached in Practice: Deeply conflicted over sending children to private/boarding schools, yet reveals pragmatism emerging in grandchildren’s situations: "Perhaps I’ve got no principles at all now." (41:30–41:46)
• On Social Issues: She calls out racism, sexism, and homophobia in both working- and middle-class settings, even if it makes her unpopular: “I’ve spoiled dinner parties… But it’s not me—it’s the person who's saying something derogatory.” (19:43–20:05)

6. Aging, Energy, and Self-Perception

• Sense of Diminished Vitality Post-70: “…surprising to me how tired you get beyond 70… all I want to do, my number one aim, is to make my daughter’s life easier.” (43:08–43:31)
• Host's Encouragement vs. Self-Doubt: Tom encourages her ("I see someone with plenty to give personally…"), but she feels “my credibility died the day my [child] went to boarding school.” (45:05)

7. Lost Dreams and Indirect Contributions

• Medicine as the Road Not Taken: Regrets not becoming a doctor—though she helped her daughter and friends pursue medicine (46:28–47:11).
  • “I'm a good motivator,” she notes, beaming with pride over her daughter's gratitude letter from a patient (47:08–47:19).

8. Mortality, Funeral, and Defiance

• Plans for Death: Wants no funeral, or ashes in the Ganges, partially out of mischief and to trouble her husband (47:49–49:42).
  • “I would really like… to go to my death without going back to the Catholic Church." (49:42)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On walking alone:
  "I'm very, very, very happy walking by myself. … Just love sorting out your head time." (03:30–03:38)

• On interfering:
  “I'm a big interferer, a seriously big interferer.” (03:59)

• On class discomfort:
  "I've moved from really quite a working class existence into a middle class existence. And a lot of my opinions are formed because of the background I come from, but those opinions aren't replicated in the world I move in." (09:00–09:19)

• On likability:
  “I think I'm very much a Marmite person. People… really like me… but they react strongly against you if they don't.” (09:23–09:30)

• On never liking her house:
  “I've hated the house ever since we moved in… lived there for 45 years.” (26:03–26:07)

• On being the 'fall guy':
  “I've always got to do all the battles. And I think I… he will concede small things to me, but the major things in life… he has.” (27:27)

• On lost dreams:
  “I was going to be a doctor… I would have loved, loved to have been a doctor.” (46:28)

• On aging:
  “It is so surprising to me how tired you get beyond 70… All I want to do, my number one aim, is to make my daughter’s life easier.” (43:08–43:31)

• On principle vs. compromise:
  “If you really breach your own values and principles… Then who's going to believe you?” (14:10)

• On playful spite for her funeral:
  “I wanted to have my ashes thrown into the Ganges… to make it more difficult for my husband.” (47:54–48:49)

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Significant Timestamps

• Favorite Day & Routine: 00:49–03:38
• Family meddling & regrets: 03:47–06:18
• Class, privilege & marital dynamics: 08:00–13:43
• Sending children to private school, loss of credibility: 14:31–24:11
• Lifelong hatred of her house: 26:03–26:51
• Reflections on aging: 43:02–43:41
• Road not taken—medicine: 46:28–47:11
• Funeral plans & faith: 47:49–49:42
• Future wishes (moving house): 50:20–50:57

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Tone & Atmosphere

• Candid, self-deprecating, funny, and sincere.
• Sometimes sorrowful or regretful, but always sharp and unsentimental—anchored in real, lived experience.
• Tom Rosenthal’s interviewing style is gentle, curious, and validating, inviting self-reflection but never judgment.

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Concluding Reflection

This episode is a raw, witty, and wisdom-filled meditation on the costs of compromise, the persistence of identity despite changing circumstance, and the bittersweet peace that comes with age. The guest's voice—acerbic yet affectionate—lingers long after, challenging the listener to marvel at the singularity within every stranger.

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For those who wonder what rich stories live in the quiet corners of the park, "I Hate This House" is an unforgettable testament: every bench, every walker, every disliked house holds a novel within.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. What's your favorite day of the week?

[Female Guest]

Friday, straight off.

[Interviewer]

Why?

[Female Guest]

It always used to be the end of the working week, and although I don't work anymore, it stayed as a favourite day. And there's a lightness about a Friday, so Monday today, it's lovely, but there's not that lightness there on a Friday.

[Interviewer]

So you still feel heavy on a Monday, even now?

[Female Guest]

No, I don't feel heavy. I just feel lighter on a Friday.

[Interviewer]

Okay, let's go from this Friday, from the start of it to the end of it.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How are you spending an ideal Friday?

[Female Guest]

Waking up without back pain, doing a bit of exercise, looking at the weather, planning a walk, going for a walk. It could be two hours, it could be four hours.

[Interviewer]

Quite a chunky walk.

[Female Guest]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Four hours.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How many miles per hour is that?

[Female Guest]

I have no idea.

[Interviewer]

What's his walking speed?

[Female Guest]

Well, I'm sitting now, looking at the little ducklings, so I factor in sitting down.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see. So is that part of the four hour?

[Female Guest]

Yeah. Well, not always, but sometimes I always like to do some hills because hills, I think that's the exercise bit. So I'll go up and down a few hills, home, chat with the husband, few chores, read the paper. That's about it, really.

[Interviewer]

Do you not walk with the husband?

[Female Guest]

No.

[Interviewer]

Why?

[Female Guest]

He's got a bad back.

[Interviewer]

So. Have you.

[Female Guest]

And he walks too slowly.

[Interviewer]

He walks too slowly?

[Female Guest]

Yeah. It just doesn't head in. It's like having a toddler. No, so. And his. In fact, he's had a bad back for decades and decades. This is just fairly recent for me.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see.

[Female Guest]

So I appreciate that it's hard for him.

[Interviewer]

Has your back problem helped you sympathise?

[Female Guest]

No, not really. Because I get on with it.

[Interviewer]

You're physically just and mentally stronger than your husband.

[Female Guest]

I certainly moan less than he does, but I will concede that his pain is probably worse than mine.

[Interviewer]

But we don't really know that for sure.

[Female Guest]

We don't know.

[Interviewer]

There's no knowing that.

[Female Guest]

But he does walk very slowly. And the very, very interesting thing is that despite having chronic backache, he can still manage to play golf.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay. Plot twist there.

[Female Guest]

Cherry picking there, maybe.

[Interviewer]

Although there are golf buggies. Is he ever in a golf buggy?

[Female Guest]

Well, when he's just got back from a week's holiday in the abroad, a very hot country called Turkey. And I think he's had a golf buggy then.

[Interviewer]

If he could walk the exact same speed as you.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Would you still like him to come walking with you or do you quite.

[Female Guest]

I'd like him to join me perhaps twice a week, but I'm very, very, very happy walking by myself.

[Interviewer]

There's a peace time.

[Female Guest]

I just love sorting out your head time and I just love it.

[Interviewer]

So, on your walks at the moment, what are you mostly thinking about?

[Female Guest]

Children, family issues, how to sort things or stand back rather than sort them.

[Interviewer]

Where do you stand on interference?

[Female Guest]

I'm a big interferer, a seriously big interferer.

[Interviewer]

Has that always worked?

[Female Guest]

Oh, God, no. No, no, no. One time out of 10, probably it.

[Interviewer]

Works, but it keeps it going.

[Female Guest]

In fact, I was literally saying to my husband this morning, I don't get how people find having babies so difficult these days. And I think it's because of all the information that's available, because I can remember coming home from hospital with baby number one, husband picked me up, dropped me off, went to work, and it wasn't easy, but it wasn't hugely, hugely problematic. And it's just that someone recently has had a baby and is really, really struggling. And I get that it can be hard, but I just don't get that it has to be that hard. I sound really harsh, then it's okay.

[Interviewer]

I'm interested in what you say about information. Why do you think information is making it more complicated?

[Female Guest]

Because I think they want to know everything. So rather than let things flow. So if a baby cries, feed it, put it down, if it cries again, just feed it, cuddle it, whatever. But there's this fascination with wanting to know if there's anything wrong, if there is something wrong, what is it? How to go about solving it, who to see, when in fact it's just a baby crying.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Female Guest]

And I experienced this with my own children. Well, I've got four children, so you're four, I've got four.

[Interviewer]

That's quite a lot.

[Female Guest]

Two of them. And I just think it just leads them to worry about things that aren't worth worrying about. I just thought it was just a really enjoyable time. But that speaks to the control freak in me because the best time for me was having the children being in control of everything and how things were going, being organized, finding it fairly easy. Then as soon as they start to assert themselves, I'm thinking, oh, my gosh, what's happened?

[Interviewer]

Here.

[Female Guest]

What do I do here? Yeah, absolutely. What do I do? So it was definitely my finest hour, the new baby bit. I've gone downhill rapidly, ever.

[Interviewer]

I guess it's must be hard to relinquish being the decisive force suddenly and then not. How do you tell? I guess. I mean, it must be impossible just to turn that off.

[Female Guest]

Well, it is and it's. It's more difficult when you know that or you can see the. The accident happening ahead.

[Interviewer]

Were there any particular interventions that in hindsight, you wish you didn't make? Oh.

[Female Guest]

I'm just a. I'm a nosy person, I'm an interfering person and I'm a really controlling person and I think my interventions inevitably are unhelpful. So a little thing, but in fact, it's quite a big thing in the event. I've got a son who lives in a flat in London, wanted a dog, got this lovely, lovely dog, really, really mad dog, but also a baby. And it's really affected their first six months of having a baby. It's made life so much more difficult. And I was really, really, really against them having a dog. I didn't think it was fair on the dog. This is their first baby and they're never going to have the first baby the first six months again. And having the dog has caused an awful lot of stuff. And I really, really, really wanted my husband to say, just say. Just you. If you say something, they listen to you because. Because you never say anything, so your opinion is worth something.

[Interviewer]

You were trying to get him to say something.

[Female Guest]

No, I said. I said something. I did. And I kept saying, if you're going to have a dog, have a different dog. What have you.

[Interviewer]

Where does this side of you come from, do you think? Is it always. Yeah. Has it always been there or has it. Children bought it on?

[Female Guest]

No, I think it's always been there. My mother. My mother was a. Was like this. And yet my father was very much like my husband, a really, really nice man. And my husband's a really, really nice man, but wouldn't deliberately offer an opinion that might be a little bit conflicting.

[Interviewer]

So you've replicated your mother's life?

[Female Guest]

I have.

[Interviewer]

Has that been a good idea?

[Female Guest]

No, no, no.

[Interviewer]

Does that mean you regret everything?

[Female Guest]

No, I don't regret everything. It's just that if you have opinions, it's more likely that you're going to be unpopular. If those opinions are unpopular and. And I'm in an odd place because I come from a fairly deprived background, certainly not privileged background, and I met somebody who had been to public school who was frightfully charming, really, really charming. It could charm you, it could charm your wife or your partner. So charming. And I'd never met anybody like that before and I thought, oh my gosh, that must be really special. And in fact it took me a while to realise that he spoke to everybody like that. So I've moved from really quite a working class existence into a middle class existence. And a lot of my opinions are formed because of the background I come from, but those opinions aren't replicated in the world I move in.

[Interviewer]

Does that mean that people don't like you?

[Female Guest]

I think a lot of people don't like me.

[Interviewer]

Really.

[Female Guest]

I think I'm very much a Marmite person. People, when they like me, they really, really like me and they react strongly.

[Interviewer]

Against you if they don't.

[Female Guest]

Yeah, it's so obvious that people prefer my husband because he's easy to be with. I think people probably find me more interesting but less likable. Well, in fact, I know people find me more interesting and I know they find me less likable, so I haven't any doubt.

[Interviewer]

And this doesn't particularly bother you? I mean, do you mind not being likeable?

[Female Guest]

Sometimes it does.

[Interviewer]

I mean, my general opinion about being likable is that it's really important. The people I like like me.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But the people that I don't particularly have any inclination towards, if they don't like me, that's not a big problem.

[Female Guest]

Absolutely. And I've noticed it's getting worse actually. I've got old, I think, well, I'm never going to see you again. What is the point of making an effort, you know, so I've become very antisocial because I can't be bothered.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, you don't want to make any new friends. You made enough.

[Female Guest]

And what I really love, because the day before yesterday I came here and spoke to a really, really lovely young man sitting on the bench there.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Female Guest]

And we must have spent about half an hour, 45 minutes talking about God, religion. Wow.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see you've just, you've been practicing talking to strangers on benches already.

[Female Guest]

Well, I thought, I thought you were part of the same thing. But I do stop and talk and this when, when we go to our holiday home, my husband, because of his baptism, walk very often, although he can play golf there. So I meet so many people, I mean from all over the country and have a chat and a coffee and.

[Interviewer]

What have you quite enjoyed that?

[Female Guest]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

But you also like the fact that you can just walk away and never be seen again.

[Female Guest]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Interviewer]

So it kind of works. You.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Did you strike up conversation with this young guy out of interest or he strike you? Oh, fantastic. No, you. You could take over for me.

[Female Guest]

It was.

[Interviewer]

I could pass the bat on. On.

[Female Guest]

It was about the doctor I was really worried about because they were nice. Started off with, see, look, look what?

[Interviewer]

The heron is now prowling around.

[Female Guest]

Is he going to. I can't see.

[Interviewer]

I can't see any ducklings.

[Female Guest]

Well, he hasn't eaten them, has he?

[Interviewer]

No, I don't think so. There are no ducklings there. Well, good on you for having the. Having the conversations.

[Female Guest]

People are very friendly.

[Background Singer or Ambient Voice]

They are, aren't.

[Interviewer]

I'm very interested in this idea of your, you know, you come from a background that is not particularly well off by the sounds of it, and then you've stumbled upon, obviously someone who's got money. What's it like to suddenly transform your life like that?

[Female Guest]

Well, no, I'm making it sound more dramatic. I mean, he's not a duke or anything, he's not massively rich. I just happened to have a good education, went to university, went into a. An area where there weren't that many women and was introduced to him by a colleague. And I'd never met anybody who was posh before because at university I stayed in these sort of non posh group of people and I slowly got used to how people talked and how they ate and their obsession with education and I think I probably was the only Labour voter that they'd come across ever.

[Interviewer]

Interesting.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How do you feel about posh people now?

[Female Guest]

Honestly? Yeah, I think, well, it depends how posh they are, really.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Female Guest]

Yeah. I don't like privilege. Privilege really gets my back up. I hate, hate, hate privilege. And I say to this to my husband sometimes because he'll go out and buy something or whatever and I'll say, do you know how much that costs? He said no, he, he would never, ever, ever, ever ask the price of anything because he'd never had to do with that money. Whereas if there was five pounds off at a different store, I would walk to the store that had five pounds off and he says, that's stupid.

[Interviewer]

Have you lost anything being in these worlds?

[Female Guest]

Oh, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

What have you lost?

[Female Guest]

I'll get upset now. I've lost my.

[Interviewer]

All of them.

[Female Guest]

Not all of them. I would really, really, really have liked to go into politics. I'm opinionated, I'm gobby. I think if you have me on your side, you're doing well is my view. Because I will fight your corner really hard. Oh, my.

[Interviewer]

What is it?

[Female Guest]

Just try to eat one of those birds. Sorry, Sorry. Well, that's nature. Look at the little things. Sorry.

[Interviewer]

No. So when you talk about politics.

[Female Guest]

Politics? No. I would have made a good politician.

[Interviewer]

Still time.

[Female Guest]

No, no. Why not? Because my backstory, my principles have just gone out of the window.

[Interviewer]

Have you heard a spin?

[Female Guest]

No, you can't spin me. Because if you really breach your own values and principles, you talk the talk, but don't walk the walk. Then who's going to believe you? She could be a good politician. She could do a good job. Didn't she send her children to private school?

[Interviewer]

That's always a way of framing things.

[Female Guest]

No, no, that's dishonest. I wouldn't want to be like that.

[Interviewer]

What other values have you lost then, in this land? The posh people?

[Female Guest]

It's not a posh people. It's very difficult. I find this really difficult because I'm not posh. My husband's posh, my children are posh. And there is this sort of little bit of. Not a barrier between us, but. Whereas I get where they come from, they will never, ever, ever get where I came from.

[Interviewer]

Interesting.

[Female Guest]

So, for instance, I always buy secondhand clothes. But the children, again, money's no object to them. I will spend money on the children, but I won't spend money on me. And I just think that when you're in a position of privilege, you have to work really, really hard to make other people's lives a little bit easier. So the day before yesterday, I sent a WhatsApp on the family WhatsApp group saying just out of interest, is anybody a blood donor? I used to do that and donate platelets and it just never occurred to me to ask the children if they did that. One of them, big brute of a rugby player, did it about 20 odd years ago and fainted, I think.

[Interviewer]

So that happened to me as well, you know.

[Female Guest]

What, you fainted?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, one of the last times I did it, or the last one did it had a really bad fainting episode and then they said, well, don't do this again for a while anyway. So what happened in the WhatsApp group? Sorry.

[Female Guest]

So I sent this WhatsApp and nobody's got back to me, so I'm assuming that nobody is interested. My daughter would be interested, but she's. She can't do it. She's got a pacemaker, so she can't. But all these privileged rich kids can't spend 20 minutes, three times a year and give a little bit of something. Which means more than money. Yeah, it's time. Time is really, really precious to them. And blood, obviously.

[Interviewer]

So you say that on the group, you, you rich little whatevers. Why don't you go to. Maybe you should.

[Female Guest]

Well, they know that.

[Interviewer]

They know you.

[Female Guest]

No, they know. They know. They know what I. They know what? I think they'd know why I was sending it. Because they're lovely children, but they're privileged.

[Interviewer]

Has there been a time where you've been in this. What can we call it, this privileged posh world, whatever it is, where you've been genuinely upset at something you've seen or heard someone do?

[Female Guest]

Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, all the time. I meet more homophobic and racist people in that world than I do in my world. And as I'm saying it, I'm actually lying because I. I go to a gym in Sheffield that's really, really working class, and I would think most people are racist, misogynistic, certainly sexist. So I'm talking stuff out of my own argument there.

[Interviewer]

We're going round. Well, you can. I mean, it's hard to know for sure, isn't it?

[Female Guest]

Well, certainly at the gym, when the chap next to you says something like, oh, they shouldn't have a woman's only gym here, and why do they have to wear veils?

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see.

[Female Guest]

And my response was, but I thought you were a Christian with Christian values. And he didn't know what I was talking about. He had no idea that what he'd said was racist. And there's this horrible, horrible underlying racism, especially against young women. And I think posh people, because they're more educated, can express that in a different sort of way.

[Interviewer]

Interesting. Yeah. I mean, that does make sense, doesn't it?

[Female Guest]

So, for instance, when we go. When we go to our holiday home, I'm in Paris, it's only a little cottage. It's only a little cottage. But there are certain people there who are very, very middle class and very homophobic.

[Interviewer]

Each time, do you try and say, absolutely. Well done for doing that. A lot of people would just let.

[Female Guest]

It all the time, but my husband never does, to the point where I could actually be in tears because I used to work with young people and I used to see predominantly men, but boys who would cry about the fact that they were gay, didn't want to be gay, and they'd cry and cry and cry and cry and cry. And then these people in this holiday place, they talk about lifestyle choices and really derogatory things about people who just find themselves attracted to the same sex. Having no idea that for a lot of people, not so much now, fortunately, but a lot of people, it's really traumatic thinking, I don't want to be like this, but I am like this. What do I do about it? Especially if you come from a religious family, they just don't know what they don't know. But if they did know what they don't know, I suspect they'd still feel the same. That's the sad part about it, so.

[Interviewer]

Oh, well done for taking people on. Some of you would rather an easier life.

[Female Guest]

Yeah, well, I'd rather say something and have an easier life as well, because it's. Because it's just I've spoiled dinner parties and things.

[Interviewer]

Have you?

[Female Guest]

Everybody's laughing at things. And I'm thinking, no. By saying things like.

[Interviewer]

And then the atmosphere is just terrible after it.

[Female Guest]

Yeah. It's just fairly obvious that somebody in the group has spoiled the atmosphere. And that's me, but it's not me. It's the person who's saying something derogatory about a lesbian or something.

[Interviewer]

Here's a big question for you.

[Background Singer or Ambient Voice]

You.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Have you ever thought about leaving this world? Sorry, not. Sorry, not the. Not the world in general. Sorry.

[Female Guest]

Oh, God, yes.

[Interviewer]

This privileged world you don't want.

[Female Guest]

Absolutely, absolutely.

[Interviewer]

At what point have you thought about it?

[Female Guest]

When my husband and I. When I realized that we were completely different, my husband and I agreed compromise, certainly with regard to education has been a really, really big thing for me. Agreed that they'd start in private school and then they'd go into the state school. We've got brilliant state schools in Sheffield. Senior state schools. Brilliant, really. I mean, top schools in the country. And then it happened that that wasn't going to be the case. This was with child number one. And at that point I thought, if this is going to happen, I can't do this. I really can't do it.

[Interviewer]

You mean you can't be.

[Female Guest]

I can't. I can't be your husband. Yeah. I really thought that. This is a really, really serious thing.

[Interviewer]

It's going against your core principles.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And so what happened then?

[Female Guest]

This is the thing about not knowing what you don't know because he went off to public school. He went off at 9. Most kids will sit and cry or, you know, go to bed and miss their mum for him. He loved it.

[Interviewer]

Okay, I see.

[Female Guest]

So from year dot, he loved it and he wanted his children to have the same experience. And I'M thinking, well, am I being a bit selfish here by standing on my principles and what have you? So, against my better judgment, number one went away.

[Interviewer]

What was that like?

[Female Guest]

It was the unhappiest year of my life. It's a bit complicated in that he was at a school that I thought was just a little private school, but in fact it was a prep school. Do you know what a prep school is?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I think so. Well, it's just like a private school for younger ones.

[Female Guest]

Yeah, well, that's what I thought. But back in the day, a prep school was preparing them to go away. Okay, I didn't know that.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Female Guest]

So when son number one got to the age where people talking about other schools, people were going off to all these boarding schools, and we actually live half a mile from one of the best schools in Sheffield. We came there and he got really upset about that. The husband got upset about it. And somehow I just felt bad about disappointing people. And that was because I didn't know what I didn't know. Now that I know. Well, I didn't know then. There is no way that that decision would have. Would have stood. I just wouldn't have allowed it. I just wouldn't have allowed it. It just wouldn't have happened. In the event, I sobbed for a week, didn't speak to my husband for weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks and weeks. The son had a whale of a time. He just. He didn't miss us at all. He was really, really, really happy. And he's made lots of lovely friends, really, really lovely friends and had a great time. So then when son number two came along, when I said to him that he wasn't going to go to this school, he said, so you don't love me as much, so what can you do? Daughter didn't want to go away, and son number four, because the other two had turned out all right. I thought, well, you know.

[Interviewer]

So you're saying in hindsight you would have potentially ended your marriage?

[Female Guest]

No, no, no, no. It wouldn't have got that far.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Female Guest]

It's always been a resentment. Always, always been a resentment. I actually, I never, ever, ever, ever told people I had children who went to boarding school. I was so, so ashamed. I mean, really ashamed. I just felt a failure as a mother then because what mother would send her children away to boarding school? It was. It was just really, really hard. Really hard. So every time we went, we went very often to see the boy, my son or sons. I used to cry all the way there and cry all the way back, literally. I mean, that's no exaggeration.

[Interviewer]

You were crying because you were going there.

[Female Guest]

Crying because I was going there and I hated to go and I was really, really horrible. I was horrible to everybody because I was so worked up and anxious and upset and angry with myself. I was rude, I was unpleasant. I was just horrible, horrible, horrible. And then I'd come back, cry because I regretted my behaviour, but also because I didn't want to leave him there. And it's amazing what you get used to, you know, you just get used to it. So I just got used to it. But I think it was weeks, if not months before I could speak to my husband again because I felt he'd let me down so badly. But the son was so.

[Interviewer]

Months of not talking at all to your husband?

[Female Guest]

The son. Well, niceties and things. But no, just. I just felt so utterly let down by him. He was quite happy about it, actually. He put his way. Whether it's part of a major plan.

[Interviewer]

Do you hold it against him now?

[Female Guest]

Yeah. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

[Interviewer]

In fact, did it ever come up still?

[Female Guest]

Oh, God.

[Interviewer]

All the time.

[Female Guest]

Seriously.

[Interviewer]

Really? Even though it's all gone?

[Female Guest]

Oh, no. I never let things go. No, no, no.

[Interviewer]

So what. What happened, like, now that. I mean, I'm interested to hear what that conversation would go like.

[Female Guest]

I just think that. So we. We live in a house that I've lived. I've hated the house ever since we've moved in.

[Interviewer]

I hate the house. You live it?

[Female Guest]

Yeah. And we've lived there for 45 years.

[Interviewer]

Wow. And you still hate it?

[Female Guest]

Absolutely. 45 years later, it's falling down around us. But it was sold to me as a. So. Well, we'd move here for five years and then we'll find somewhere else. And then we couldn't afford to move because we had to pay school fees. So I've lived in a house that I've loathed for decades in order to pay for something that I didn't value. And it really has had an effect on my. We honestly, a real effect on my well being.

[Interviewer]

Because 45 years is such a long time to be in a place you don't really like.

[Female Guest]

If you. If my husband was here, you could say to him, what's the first thing she says to you in the morning? And he will say, I absolutely guarantee you say, I hate this house. Seriously, Every day that's your first thing.

[Interviewer]

You wake up saying.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It sounds like your husband is, throughout the time we've been together, persuaded you a number of times Slightly against your wishes. If he was here now and I said, what has your wife persuaded you to do? What would he say to that question? Surely if the relationship has worked, there must have been some kind of give and take.

[Female Guest]

But this is. It looks. It looks as if I'm completely in charge because I'm more assertive. I'm always his fall guy. I've always got to do all the. All the battles. And I think I. He will concede small things to me, but the major things in life. It doesn't look as if he's won in inverted commas, but he has education as kids. I think that's one of the major things, especially when it has lifelong repercussions.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Female Guest]

Where we live, his. He's won that, and I think that's fairly major.

[Interviewer]

Do you think he's won the core things?

[Female Guest]

Well, no, he's won the core things, but he gets looked after. He's got someone who does all the dirty work in the sense that I'm always the person who has to assert myself and be unpopular and say things.

[Interviewer]

And he's managed to get all this just by being charming.

[Female Guest]

Yeah, just. People just think he's just really, really, really, really, really, really, really. And he is really, really, really, really nice. He's nice. It hurts me sometimes to be saying these things when he's clearly so nice.

[Interviewer]

But, I mean, apart from that moment of choosing the first child's education, have there been any moments you thought about not being with him?

[Female Guest]

I've wondered what it would be like. You know, we got married 48 years ago and we meant it when we said, you know, till death do us part. And sometimes it's been really, really not very nice, and other times it's fine. I don't know if it's any different from anybody else's relationship, but being married a long time is hard. It's not easy.

[Interviewer]

Have there ever been. Bit of personal question, but have there ever been any tempters for you?

[Female Guest]

Oh, God, no. Oh, absolutely not. Why would anybody. Seriously. No, no. My daughter, sadly, her husband died a couple of years ago. Really, really sad. And she lives in the country with two small children. He was diagnosed with cancer, 41. And she was part of a cohort of people who were helped by charity.

[Interviewer]

A butterfly on you.

[Female Guest]

Oh, gosh. Scared of butterflies, are you?

[Interviewer]

Oh, is it off? It's off now. That's a rare. It's a rare fear.

[Female Guest]

No, it's because it's like a moth.

[Interviewer]

I suppose they're like a moth, but it's a butterfly. Sorry.

[Female Guest]

So she, she was part of a cohort of people who were all about to lose a partner through predominantly cancer at an early age, late 30s, early 40s, with small children, three men and two women. And they met up a couple of months ago. All the men have moved on. Obviously they've been through a bad thing. They're losing their wife early and having their children. But I'm thinking, well, what are their children thinking? You know, Mum's just died and somebody else on the scene and my daughter doesn't in any shape or form criticize. She just says, well that's, People need different things and I think men are very needy. So why, why would a woman want to go and have an affair with somebody? Why? I mean, this.

[Interviewer]

Well, it happens.

[Female Guest]

Oh no, it happens. Oh yes, I know it happens. But for me I'm thinking, well, isn't one enough? Why on earth would you. But why would you. I say this actually on a regular basis. I really, really wish my daughter was lesbian because she's got so many lovely, lovely girlfriends.

[Interviewer]

The one whose husband died.

[Female Guest]

The one whose husband died, she's not lesbian. And I've tried to get her to go to lesbian school but she won't because women are just so much better. Well, they are.

[Interviewer]

Sorry, but no, you're exactly right. I completely agree.

[Female Guest]

So in our marriage, my husband certainly had a few offers.

[Interviewer]

Formal offers.

[Female Guest]

No, this, this is, this is quite funny. His secretary came in one day and said, right, cards on the table, I'm in love with you. And he said, I can't, I've got four children. Which I thought was the priceless response, not, I've got a wife and four children. I've got four children. And that's one of the reasons why I know beyond a shadow of a doubt because my husband adores his children. He would never ever, ever jeopardize the well being of the children. And I would never ever jeopardize the well being of the children.

[Interviewer]

So even now, though?

[Female Guest]

Even now. Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

Surely they wouldn't mind that much now. No. Oh, maybe they would.

[Female Guest]

They do.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Female Guest]

Well, they mind just as much a thing, perhaps even more. Because then they wonder, oh, well, how much of a sham was this? Were we brought up in the, in the bed of life?

[Interviewer]

48 year sham? No, I think that's a factor though. Well, a factor in not doing anything is the worry that the child.

[Female Guest]

Well, not for me, because I, I.

[Interviewer]

So you've had no offers at all?

[Female Guest]

Well, I've had lots of offers, yeah. Over the years.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay, yeah.

[Female Guest]

Not interested in the slightest.

[Interviewer]

What's it like to be with someone who's very charming?

[Female Guest]

It's a bit disarming, actually.

[Interviewer]

I think I'm interest. How did he charm you for the start? Do you remember the start?

[Female Guest]

It's a way of being. It's not insane, charming things. It's just a way of being. And I have to say, he's known. He was the pinup man of all these elderly people in Sheffield. Widows, divorcees, who really thought he was and probably still think he's a bees knees because he's just so. He's just really, really charming and he has a way with him that is just very, very easy, whereas I don't.

[Interviewer]

Do you remember how he. How did he woo you?

[Female Guest]

He was an arrogant toad. A colleague invited us all to a fundraising event and she introduced me to him and I knew he was interested straight away because he ignored me the entire evening. So I thought, well, that's it, I've got him. So then he came to another function and asked me out and that was it really.

[Interviewer]

Do you remember your first moment of kind of true connection?

[Female Guest]

Well, I do, certainly within six months, I should think. I think it took him a few years longer.

[Interviewer]

A few years?

[Female Guest]

Well, just as I'm saying, I moved out of my sort of social circle. By being with me, he'd moved out of his social circle as well. So I certainly wasn't the sort of girlfriend that his parents were expecting.

[Interviewer]

That's interesting.

[Female Guest]

To bring home.

[Interviewer]

Did you have to? I mean, did you ever get his parents approval?

[Female Guest]

Well, after decades, yes. After decades, they didn't disapprove. I think it was my. My opinionated part of me that they didn't particularly like, but also not. I used to wear the shorter skirts and I suppose I'd say I look common in Sheffield jargon. So it must have been a bit of a disappointment for them, really, when they had this idea that he was going to marry some sort of steel heiress or whatever. And then he came home with me. So from his point of view, I think there was a certain strangeness, there was a newness. I mean, he'd never been out with anybody who spoke lightly before. And although, I mean, I can still hear my accent, but it's nowhere near as broad as it was. And I think you just hadn't come across somebody like me before.

[Interviewer]

What about your parents and him or parents? What did they think of him?

[Female Guest]

Oh, they thought he was lovely.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay.

[Female Guest]

No, you don't. You can't find anyone who doesn't like him? Oh no, no, no, no. It was a leg up as well far as they were concerned.

[Interviewer]

How do you feel about your parents now? Looking back at them?

[Female Guest]

I think of the different lives that my in laws had and they had and I think my parents just had it harder and I think it's sad really that some people have to have it so hard and other people have it relatively easy. You know, if the only. The really awful decision of the day is what type of gin to have with your gin and tonic in the evening is indicative of how you live. My parents didn't drink. I remember going to grammar school and everything I had was second hand, all too big and I remember these white sandals that had been dyed brown that were about four sizes too big and I was so out of my comfort zone and then I got there and I was put in the year above.

[Interviewer]

You're clever.

[Female Guest]

Yeah. So the friends I'd had at my other school, they didn't engage with me because they said I was a snob because I was in the second and in that year it was really hard to make friendships. But also I'd gone from being really quite a bright girl to. I missed a year of chemistry, of physics, of biology, of Latin, of French and I had no idea where I was. So I really, really, really, really struggled just I was going to be a doctor but I spent so much time catching up that it just wasn't to be so. But I was just remembering the discomfort. Now I wear second hand clothes with pride. I mean, you know, I couldn't carry a toss when my son had a destination wedding. I just find it so embarrassing expecting people to go to Italy for a wedding. I never ever, ever, ever, ever spend money on clothes. I just don't. But I bought this really, really special dress because I've been instructed what to wear as the mother of the bridegroom got there and there was somebody else in the same dress. The only time I buy something you and there's somebody there.

[Interviewer]

The higher forces.

[Female Guest]

Bloody awful dress as well. I mean it really. I don't know why I bought it.

[Interviewer]

So you hated this wedding?

[Female Guest]

Oh no. In fact the wedding was lovely. I just wish you had a destination wedding. I just don't agree with it because in fact at these destination weddings. Have you been to any of them?

[Interviewer]

I have, yeah.

[Female Guest]

Everybody gets married beforehand because these places haven't got the license to. So they're already married. So everybody's going off to Italy for a party and it's so wrong. I think it's so wrong.

[Interviewer]

Did you tell this to your son?

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What did he say?

[Female Guest]

Can I have some more money, please? We've always gone half on weddings with the. We paid for our daughter's wedding, but we've gone half with the boys and it did cost a lot of money. And I just thought, well, what a bloody waste. And you're married. It's a farce. It is a farce. Why doesn't somebody call it out as a farce? I actually felt embarrassed by it because I thought, well, I've given birth to a son who thinks the destination wedding is a good idea. Seriously. And yet the, the daughter, she wasn't at all like that. When she decided to get married, she already had two children. She wanted it low key. She wanted sort of bohemian getting married in the, in the forest and what have you. And. And then somehow it went from being bohemian getting married in the forest, register off his wedding wedding to make it legal, to ending up in a priory with morning suit suits with a gospel choir and a Rolls Royce. And. And it wasn't. And it wasn't what she wanted. It just sort of evolved like that because they lived next door to a priory. So I said, well, it's a lovely old church and it was a really, really, really lovely wedding. And Rob, who died sadly, his memorial service was in the same church a few years later. You know, that was, that was sad of it.

[Interviewer]

What was that time like for you?

[Female Guest]

Awful. It's the normalizing of it that makes me unhappy. So the. They've planted a tree. It's a huge hill over the road which they used to walk up a bit, quite a lot. And she's planted a tree that was given to her and just see them go there with their little cups of hot chocolate, talking to daddy and things, but not getting upset about it because that's their normal now. And that it's. It's the normalizing of it that makes me really sad. You know what I mean? It's been really difficult. She's been amazing. It's. When something like that happens, it really brings you up short and you think, well, makes you think what's important. And so now I'm not bothered about. I talk as if I'm bothered about privilege and education or what have you. I just want the grandchildren to be okay.

[Interviewer]

Do you see it as another chance with the grandchildren to do what you weren't able to do with your children, education wise? Another principle, ironically.

[Female Guest]

No, only because when, when Rob died, they had this plan. They live in a village which has got a very, very nice private school. It's happened to be a boarding school, but it's a very nice school and it was always planned for the children to. For them to go there. And I hated the fact that she was worried about what was going to happen. Actually, this is quite interesting. I have thought about this. Perhaps my viewers change.

[Background Singer or Ambient Voice]

Change?

[Female Guest]

Because I see that as a place of security for them.

[Interviewer]

Interesting. Yeah.

[Female Guest]

You know what I mean? It's local. They're not. They deboard. It's a friendly school. Everything they need is on the premises. So I think it's a place of security for them. So perhaps. Perhaps I've got no principles at all now. They have.

[Interviewer]

I like how you hold all these worlds within you. Quite a juggling act. I can see why you need the long walks now.

[Female Guest]

Well, I know, I know.

[Interviewer]

Just some wrestling. Mental wrestling.

[Female Guest]

I know I make my life sound really hard. It's not hard at all. The last couple of years has been hard because of the deaths. But apart from that, I'm really, really lucky. Parks like this, gorgeous, nice people, sun shining. It's just love.

[Interviewer]

What would you like to do with the rest of your life?

[Female Guest]

I've lost the energy because I have.

[Interviewer]

Really, though, seriously, Can I say something?

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What if I say I don't agree?

[Female Guest]

No.

[Interviewer]

What if I say I see someone who looks very fit, who says they walk two to four hours a day, who has a number of very core principled opinions and is not afraid to share them in an articulate manner? I see someone with plenty to give personally. And I think people listening to this would agree with me.

[Female Guest]

Well, I'd say that that's because they don't know me. Seriously, honestly.

[Interviewer]

But what are we not. What am I not seeing?

[Female Guest]

No. And I think this. I think this is genuinely old age. It is so surprising to me how tired you get beyond 70. It's almost as if a switch has been flicked. Physically. I just feel so much more tired than I did a couple of years ago. All I want to do, my number one aim, is to make my daughter's life easier.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I understand.

[Female Guest]

That's all I want to do.

[Interviewer]

That's a good aim.

[Female Guest]

And we spend a lot of time going up and down, helping out. And we've got grandchildren in London. We do that. And I think that in itself is tiring. I mean, it is tiring.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. What if I said that it's slightly controversial opinion, maybe. Do you think a lack of energy can sometimes equate To a lack of purpose.

[Female Guest]

Oh absolutely.

[Interviewer]

So what I mean by that is if you find something that you're particularly pumped about.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Energy comes.

[Female Guest]

I don't get that.

[Interviewer]

Could that be a thing?

[Female Guest]

I get energy to do things I have to do. So this morning before I came out I was up on step ladders painting the ceiling. We've had, we've had ceilings plastered because it had to be done and I did it. Didn't want to do it but I, it's so long since I've thought oh I'm really looking forward to. Really, really looking forward to something like that. Just I can't remember the last time time. I think it's probably what's happened over the last couple of years just sort of dented my enthusiasm for things.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But I think it, I just think this, I don't know. Obviously it's always easy from the outside to throw some ideas over but it's quite rare you meet someone who really believes in things, you know?

[Female Guest]

Yeah. Yeah. If you've got no credibility then you can see say what you like. I have no credibility? No, no, no, I, I, I don't. My credibility died the day I'm not sure went to boarding school. Sorry. Absolutely.

[Interviewer]

I think that credibility is in you rather than your past. Does that make sense as a person as what they bring to any given situation that's real. That for me is where credibility lies rather than in the decisions of your past. You could always just blame on your husband anyway.

[Female Guest]

Well.

[Interviewer]

And you do.

[Female Guest]

Well, actually not. I'd make him accountable for certain decisions. The, the agreement that we had. That's what hurts actually. The fact that we agreed that this wouldn't happen. It happened because we did.

[Interviewer]

Because we can just say you can just blame him.

[Female Guest]

Well, no, no, I can't because I've lived the life, haven't I? I've just. No, I wear diamond rings and things for God's sakes. I can't pretend that I'm going to go back to Sunderland and to sell them all. Yeah, could do. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. The defiant stand.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You can do anything at any time.

[Female Guest]

I've got no credibility so I've, I genuinely feel that.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Female Guest]

Genuinely feel that.

[Interviewer]

I understand.

[Female Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I think there's this lots in you.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Let's see what you know. The future is a funny place, isn't it?

[Female Guest]

Yeah, well it is. Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is there anything else you, you wish you had the courage to do that you didn't?

[Female Guest]

Yes. I was going to be a doctor.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Female Guest]

And I would have loved, loved to have been a doctor. And I thought about doing that and I missed the point. And I really, really wish I'd taken the bull by the horns now. I wish I'd done that. But instead I've got my daughter and all her friends to be doctors. Oh, that's because they weren't going to be doctors until I. Oh, you made them be doctors. I didn't make them be doctors, but I offered them the option of helping them to become doctors. They didn't think they were good enough. Quite clearly able, hugely compassionate and kind and what have you. So I would be the one who would sort of get them motivated and start and help them fill in forms and getting them and all of them have made wonderful doctors.

[Interviewer]

Oh, fantastic.

[Female Guest]

You know, really, really well done.

[Interviewer]

Really wonderful.

[Female Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'm a good motivator.

[Interviewer]

Fantastic.

[Female Guest]

That's.

[Interviewer]

What a lovely thing to, to be.

[Female Guest]

Yeah. My, my daughter, she sent a letter last week from her that she'd gotten a, a patient thanking her for his life. And I thought, good on you, girl. You know, if you do nothing else in your entire life, you've made a huge difference to that person.

[Interviewer]

So that's wonderful.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What would you like to happen at your funeral?

[Female Guest]

I'm not having a funeral.

[Interviewer]

Okay. No, you already, you already decided.

[Female Guest]

Well, I was actually. I've gone for one extra to the other because I wanted to have my ashes thrown into the Ganges only to make it more difficult for my husband because my husband was in that field. He was a solicitor when people died. When people died he'd ring up somebody and say, oh, and organize a funeral. Cuz it was just like that.

[Interviewer]

Right. So there's.

[Female Guest]

So I want.

[Interviewer]

So he'll think about you more difficult for him.

[Female Guest]

Really, really hard. So I thought through my ashes in the Ganges would at least involve a, an air flight to India. Then I wanted to be very. Which is actually more difficult for him in a mushroom blanket. You know what I mean by that? Yeah. He'd never heard of that. So I wanted him to find out from his mate, the undertaker about them. He didn't know about them. Oh, this is a really good one because. Because they're going to have to go to extra measures to accommodate my wishes. Undertaker. Haven't heard of it.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[Female Guest]

Yeah. How odd. Or perhaps that's your Sheffield. But now I'm going to have a promotion and. No, no service.

[Interviewer]

No service at all? No nothing.

[Female Guest]

No, I think my husband, I've told my husband that just give it a couple of Weeks before he moves on. And I'm fine with that because there will. There would be lots of old people, old women in Sheffield who will.

[Interviewer]

They're all going to come to.

[Female Guest]

They're going to flop, love to have him as a husband. So in fact he could do it straight away, wouldn't mind in the slightest. Why would you? You just want someone to be happy, don't you? So I'm hoping that I could just be cremated and that's it. And I'm hoping. I'm hoping I can stay steadfast to being a lapsed Catholic. And I would really like to. To think that I have the bravery, the courage to. To go to my death without going back to the Catholic Church.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Female Guest]

But I have the feeling that I'd be weak, you know? Can I have a priest?

[Interviewer]

Oh, get the priest.

[Female Guest]

Go on. Yeah, go on. May as well. May as well. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I'd like to think that I had the courage not to do that because I really, really don't like anything. Well, look, I just don't like the Catholic. Yes.

[Interviewer]

So there we go. Well, you've got reached the last question. What are you going to do next?

[Female Guest]

You mean immediately?

[Interviewer]

Either immediately or just generally. Whatever you want to say, really.

[Female Guest]

I'll finish my walk and the plan is in the next couple of days to go and help the grandchildren. My big project is to move after 45 years.

[Interviewer]

You've got to do it. You've got to at least live in a house you like.

[Female Guest]

I know, that's what I said to my husband.

[Interviewer]

Can you just get your own house maybe?

[Female Guest]

I've said that to my husband. No studio apartment. Studio flat for me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Why don't you just do that?

[Female Guest]

Because he doesn't want it.

[Interviewer]

We could do a studio nearby. Yeah, well, I think you should insist on the house you like next.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's your turn now.

[Female Guest]

I know, I know. Well, I think it is anyway, but it. But that'd be definitely in the next year. That's what I want. I want to have moved house. Hopefully things have moved on a bit for the daughter and, you know, just be okay, really.

[Interviewer]

Well, thank you so much for talking to me.

[Female Guest]

I've rattled on a bit, haven't I?

[Interviewer]

Well, that's. That's the dream, really.

[Female Guest]

Yeah. You're very good at not butting in and things. Is this a gift that you've got or is it. Have you honed a skill?

[Interviewer]

I don't know, really. It's hard to. For me to say that I have a gift, I'd more say, I think listening.

[Female Guest]

See what I've done now? I've just interrupted you. This is me all along. I've interrupted you because I think listening is a really, really special gift.

[Interviewer]

I think it probably is, but it's hard to. It's hard to think of oneself as having a gift or something, you know, Unless you're like a footballer or something. It's just me, I suppose, but, you know. Yeah.

[Female Guest]

And then you'll do another one today, will you?

[Interviewer]

I'll just. I'll just do as many as I possibly can.

[Female Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Anyway, thank you.

[Female Guest]

Well, thank you for listening to me.

[Interviewer]

Absolute honor.

[Background Singer or Ambient Voice]

Some kind of night Sour at the table. What kind of boxing through farm. Some kind of tide he will. Untie the mind do it alone. It's funny what the eyes complete Empty rooms and tapping themes Used to what we live without but hey, this house. Strange kind of dream I took a right turn. All of the walls. Go to the tree talk Is it bright. Nothing at all Feels like it's new. The eyes complete Empty rooms and clapping feet Used to what we live without I hate this house. You.

[Interviewer]

What?

[Female Guest]

I.