EPISODE 74: Tuesday is Green

Summary

Strangers on a Bench | Episode 74: “Tuesday is Green”

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Date: February 9, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply moving episode, Tom Rosenthal sits with an anonymous bench-dweller whose story traverses childhood trauma, addiction, recovery, remarkable resilience, and the complex beauty of healing. The episode’s title, “Tuesday is Green,” is inspired by the guest’s synesthetic perception of days of the week, leading to a wide-ranging, heartfelt conversation.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Synesthesia and the Colors of Life

• Opening Lightness: Tom begins by asking the guest about their favorite day of the week. The guest answers “Tuesday,” describing it as “green.”
• Explanation: The guest reveals they have synesthesia, a condition where senses blend together, allowing her to perceive days, names, and numbers as colors.
  • Notable quote [01:43]:

    “Synesthesia is where the senses bleed into each other. Like, I see days and names and numbers, letters in color. So I thought everybody did, but they don’t.” — Guest

• Discovery: She only discovered she had synesthesia about five years ago (around middle age) after seeing a mention online.

2. Childhood, Family Trauma & Running Away

• Family Dynamics: Raised in an Irish family in Wales, the guest’s childhood was marked by alcohol-fueled dysfunction, emotional absence, and violence.
  • Pattern:

    “…They’d all start off very happy and loving each other, and then they’d all start singing…and then they’d start crying. And then they’d start fighting.” [12:01]

• Running Away: At age 14, she ran away from home to London, using cleverness and resourcefulness to survive.
  • Hostel Life:

    “I left Wales and came to London…got a job in a hotel as a chambermaid…I dyed my hair black and blonde, wore fake tan…” [18:00–21:00]

  • Being Found:

    “My brother was a police inspector…he found out that I was working at this hotel…” [24:53]

• BBC Film:
  • Her father, searching for her, responded to a newspaper ad and ended up facilitating the making of a BBC film about her as a runaway.
  • Recounting Returning Home:

    “My mother answered the door and she just said, ‘Oh, hello, darling.’ She just put her arms around me…And they tried to be a lot more understanding after that, but then it quickly reverted back to the way it was.” [27:59]

3. Addiction, Sobriety, and Healing

• Introduction to Alcohol:
  Raised in a drinking culture, she started sneaking drinks in pre-teen years.
• Life-Changing Encounters:
  • Met a sober group at a blues festival in Portland, Oregon, leading her to realize she wanted to live sober:

    “They showed me that you could actually not drink and still really enjoy life. So that massively changed my life.” [05:21]

• Alcoholics Anonymous:
  • Memorable Moment: The first AA meeting she attended was a coincidence—her taxi driver in San Francisco was herself in recovery and took her to a women’s meeting:

    “I got into the taxi and…it was a woman driver…she said, ‘Oh, I’ve been sober for eight years, you’re my last pair. I’m going to a meeting straight after this. Do you want to come to that one?’” [08:00]

  • On Meetings:

    “It’s only one day at a time. I know I’m not going to drink today, but I don’t know if I’ll drink tomorrow or not.” [09:50]

  • Relapse & Resilience:
    She has now been sober for twenty years, after relapses:

    “First time I got sober was in 1990...then I relapsed for 10 years but now I’ve been sober for 20.” [33:19]

• Impact of Addiction:
  • On relationship with family, trauma, self-worth, and mental health.
  • Advice:

    “If anybody’s listening that’s got any problems with addiction, you don’t pick up the first one and then you can’t get drunk. You have to think it through to the end.” [10:50]

4. Memory, Loss, and Reconciliation

• Mother’s Death:
  • Her mother died suddenly at 53. Family and self-blame were major elements:

    “I thought I’d killed her...My whole family agreed with that.” [29:15]

  • Didn’t realize until her early thirties, with help from a spiritual healer, that the blame was unfounded.
• Father’s Death & Family Compassion:
  • Father was a complex, often violent figure. The guest did not have a chance to reconcile with him before his death, sharing the pain of generational trauma and addiction.
• Ongoing Healing:
  • Engaged in therapy and recovery, working through CPTSD (complex PTSD) from childhood and adult traumas.

    “I’m just starting trauma therapy now to deal with all that stuff from back then. I’m going to be a pensioner in August, and that now is when I’m ready to do the trauma work.” [23:18]

5. Love, Relationships, and Survival

• Relationships:
  • Suffered domestic violence and long-term stalking from a partner who abused her and continued to turn up across the years.
  • On love:

    “I don’t think I’ve ever really loved anybody. There’s a couple of people in my life I’ve ever really loved … my mother, my daughter, and my auntie.” [42:58]

  • On men:

    “Most of my trauma came from men…For me growing up, men were violent, men were scary, they were loud. I do have some very, very good male friends. As long as they stay friends.” [41:57]

• Motherhood:
  • Her relationship with her own daughter is one of the great positives in her life:

    “My daughter’s an incredible woman now. She’s 40…quite incredible.” [15:14]

6. Travel, Identity, and Healing Work

• Restlessness:
  • Spent years in various places: London, Israel (on a kibbutz), Egypt, Ibiza. A pattern of running away, but also seeking healing.

    “I did a lot of geographicals in my life. I went to a lot of places.” [40:48]

• Work in Healing:
  • Now involved in sound healing, especially gong baths.

    “Sound is very, very powerful. It’s a powerful healer… You just lie down, it’s like a meditation really.” [50:30]

• Universal Insights:
  • Expresses a hope for collective healing and recognizes interconnectedness.

    “We’re all one. Really…Let’s start helping each other instead of hating each other.” [51:48]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Synesthesia:

  “Tuesday’s just a green day.” — Guest [00:57]
  “I thought everybody did, but they don’t.” — Guest [01:46]

• On Addiction & Sobriety:

  “Addiction is a mental illness, really. And the way that we think is very different from the way that people who don’t have addiction think. And when you sit in a room with 60 other people and they all say things that they think and feel, and you think, oh my God. I think that, I feel…You’re not alone.” — Guest [09:13] “You don’t pick up the first one and then you can’t get drunk. You have to think it through to the end.” — Guest [10:50]

• On Childhood & Trauma:

  “When you’re little, you…just see people behave in that way and you just thought that’s how adults behave.” — Guest [13:17]

• On Resilience & Healing:

  “What I find amazing. I’m just starting to like myself.… I never got bitter… I am alright. I am an alright person. And recovery is helping for that, you know?” — Guest [46:18]

• On Universal Family and Healing:

  “We’re all one. Really…Let’s start helping each other instead of hating each other.” — Guest [51:48]

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Timeline: Important Segments

| Timestamp | Segment & Topic | |--------------|---------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:51–01:44 | Synesthesia and colored days of the week | | 05:20–08:00 | Life-changing encounter at the Portland blues festival | | 08:00–09:13 | First AA meeting in San Francisco, fate and serendipity | | 11:25–14:24 | Early alcohol use, dysfunctional family patterns | | 17:16–22:54 | Running away to London at 14, surviving as a teen runaway | | 24:05–28:48 | BBC film, returning home, cycle of departure and return | | 29:15–31:04 | Mother's death, burden of guilt, reframing through healing | | 38:02–40:23 | Reflections on the state of the world, collective rock bottom | | 41:13–46:18 | On relationships, living alone, trauma from men, self-worth | | 50:22–52:06 | Sound healing, gong baths, communal recovery | | 52:25–52:34 | Final lightness: The next step is simply walking home |

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Episode’s Original Language & Tone

The conversation is honest, at times raw, but laced with a wry humor and poetic sensitivity. The guest’s candidness about trauma and survival is balanced by moments of warmth, self-reflection, and even playfulness (“Tuesday is green,” “I’m not a bank robber!”).

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Conclusion: Takeaways & Closing Sentiments

• Personal & Collective Healing: The guest’s journey is one of facing hardship head-on, seeking and finding help, and gradually unraveling the layers of pain, shame, and self-blame.
• Human Connection: The episode is ultimately about the value of sharing, listening, and the small, everyday encounters that can change a life.
• Hopeful Outlook: “What would you like the rest of your life to look like?” Tom asks toward the end. The answer is simple yet profound: “Calm…living and healing and seeing the world heal.” [47:10]
• Parting Words:

  “Tuesday is green. Red flower cardoon. Sa. On a paradise if we could only see its color if we could only shine.” — Guest [52:56]

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This episode is a testament to the pains people carry quietly, the power of chance meetings, and the human drive toward healing no matter how much one has endured.

Transcript

[A]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially, I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. You feeling ready?

[B]

Yeah. Okay.

[A]

What's your favorite day of the week?

[B]

Tuesday.

[A]

Oh, good answer. Why?

[B]

Because it's green.

[A]

It's green?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

Tuesday's just a green day.

[A]

Every day has a different color, and Tuesday's green.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So first question is, why is Tuesday green?

[B]

I don't know. It just always has been.

[A]

Fantastic. And that. It is green. Why is that good?

[B]

I like green.

[A]

What do you like about green?

[B]

It's just a lovely color.

[A]

It is. It's all over. It's above us now.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And around us.

[B]

Yeah. It's beautiful, isn't it?

[A]

You're so right. Did you decide that Tuesday was green?

[B]

No. That's the way I've always seen it since I was a child.

[A]

It's not. You haven't seen it in a book.

[B]

I have synesthesia.

[A]

Okay. Tell me what that is.

[B]

Synesthesia is where the senses bleed into each other. Like, I see days and names and numbers, letters in color. So I thought everybody did, but they don't.

[A]

When did you first discover this?

[B]

That I had synesthesia?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

About five years ago.

[A]

So quite recently, what was that moment where you. You kind of.

[B]

Oh, somebody put online, I have synesthesia. And I thought, what's that? I don't know what that is. So I looked it up, and it told me what it was, and I thought, oh, my God, I have that as well.

[A]

What was that moment like to realize.

[B]

It's interesting. I mean, it's. It's seen as a disorder, but I don't see it as a disorder. It's like a superpower. I love it.

[A]

I mean, how can a disorder mean. You see, Tuesday is green. It's joyous, if anything.

[B]

Absolutely. Monday's brown. Tuesday's green. Wednesday's orange. Thursday's blue. Friday's like a silvery color. Saturday's silver, but a different color to Friday and Sundays. Like a bright orange.

[A]

Amazing. Can you think of an important event that's happened on this green tube?

[B]

I was born.

[A]

That was a big moment. What do you know about your birth?

[B]

Normal, I think.

[A]

Normal. Just straight up and down.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you know anything about your birth?

[B]

I know that my father. Well, I know that my father called the hospital from a telephone box because we didn't have a phone at the time and they told him that he had a daughter and he forgot. He left his car outside the telephone box and ran up to the hospital. I know that. That's one story I got from them.

[A]

Oh, that's sweet.

[B]

Yeah, it's nice, isn't it?

[A]

Was that a classic kind of move of your father's, you know?

[B]

No. I think so. He was a bit impulsive, I suppose.

[A]

Let's go back. You know, if we think about this Tuesday, if it was your favorite day, what is your idea for that Tuesday? Really well lived like a really great day on this funny earth thing that we're both on. What time we're getting up?

[B]

Probably about 7:38. And then. Yeah. Shower, get ready, go out for a walk somewhere. The sun is shining.

[A]

So you're out walking alone?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's it like to walk alone?

[B]

It's lovely to walk on your own. You don't have to chat to anybody. You only have to please yourself. So if you want to stop and look at flowers, you can. If you want to find a four leaf clover, you can.

[A]

And so you never walk with anybody?

[B]

Sometimes I walk with friends, but usually.

[A]

They drag you down.

[B]

I don't. I. I never ask anybody to go for a walk with me. I'd rather go for a walk on my own. So I prefer to walk on my own. But I will walk with friends if they're walking.

[A]

Have you ever met anyone on a walk of significance?

[B]

You?

[A]

There's got to be some others.

[B]

No, I chat to people all the time when I'm walking. Yeah. That's one of the things I really like about it.

[A]

Can you think of a chance meeting that's changed your life?

[B]

That's changed my life, yes. I was in Portland, Oregon, and I went to a blues festival and I met a group of people that were with the band and they were all sober and that changed my life. That was great.

[A]

Can you tell me more?

[B]

Well, they were all sober. I wasn't at the time. They became friends of mine and they showed me that you could actually not drink and still really enjoy life. So that massively changed my life.

[A]

What was your relationship to alcohol before that?

[B]

I drank it.

[A]

You drank it?

[B]

Yeah. All the time.

[A]

To what extent?

[B]

A lot.

[A]

Yeah. You would call yourself an alcoholic or not, or did you acknowledge it at that time?

[B]

No, I didn't really acknowledge it at that time. But I did realize after being with these people because they all told me our drinking is very similar to our drinking. This was back in the 90s.

[A]

And what did they I mean, how did they convince you?

[B]

Well, I convinced myself because I continued to get drunk until I realized that this is a problem and then I got sober. But it was them that had planted the seed for me.

[A]

Once you kind of settled into sobriety, what emerged as a result of that? That had been kind of suppressed. You?

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

So what were you trying to suppress, you think, prior to that?

[B]

Oh, I don't know. Lots and lots of things, you know, life really. I wasn't very well equipped to deal with life, but I deal with it quite well now, I think.

[A]

When you say you weren't well equipped, what does that mean?

[B]

I just probably just wanted to escape reality.

[A]

But what was the reality you wanted to escape?

[B]

Dysfunctional family, not prepared for, you know, life. Some people can handle it and they push through it and other people escape into alcohol, drugs, work, gambling. But I don't know, it's addiction. So it's not anything that I decided to do.

[A]

It was just there, I suppose, to meet these people. In an entire game changing moment in your life.

[B]

Yeah, it was a revelation.

[A]

What would you say to anybody who might be listening, who thinks they have an issue with alcohol and struggles with the concept of stopping, what would you.

[B]

Say a first stop would be? Alcoholics Anonymous, the website read the stories of people who have got sober.

[A]

Do you remember your first time going south, Wallows Anonymous?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

Can you describe what it was like?

[B]

I was in San Francisco and I was traveling with my daughter and I was driving a Winnebago van and I had just left Oregon where I'd met all these people and I knew by that point that I was alcoholic. I realized I needed to get to a meeting because I'd never been to one. And then I was in the cafe in Haight Ashbury, and I thought, right, I'm going to find a meeting. So I called a taxi to take me back to my hotel so I could find out from there where the nearest a meetington was. And I got into the taxi and it was a woman driver. And we struck up a conversation and I said, I think I'm an alcoholic, I need to get to a meeting. And she said, oh, I've been sober for eight years, you're my last pair. So, you know, I'm going to a meeting straight after this. Do you want, do you want to come to that one? Amazing. Yeah. My daughter was with me, she was six years old at the time and she took me to a meeting and it was a women's meeting and they had a crash. I mean, you couldn't make it up.

[A]

Someone wanted you to really get sober.

[B]

So that was my first ever meeting.

[A]

Amazing. And do you remember how you felt afterwards?

[B]

Well, I felt glad that there were a lot of others like me. There was about 60 women there. Addiction is a mental illness, really. And the way that we think is very different from the way that people who don't have addiction think. And when you sit in a room with, you know, 60 other people and they all say things that they think and feel, and you think, oh, my God. I think that I feel. Oh, my. Wow. You know, you're not alone.

[A]

Do you still attend meetings?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's it like to attend meetings now?

[B]

It's the same as in, you know, I get the same identification and, you know, I still go there for myself because it's only one day at a time. I know I'm not going to drink today, but I don't know if I'll drink tomorrow or not. Probably won't.

[A]

Looking good. What's been the times you've been closest to drinking again?

[B]

Oh, there's been a few times. It's funny because with addiction, the big things you can get through, relationship breakups, death, losing a job, whatever, but it's the little things that can tip you over, really. I want. Losing a vape. Yeah. Missing an appointment, but usually that would be on top of something big happening. Something big happening. You'd stay, okay, you. You know how to get through that. But then something small happens.

[A]

Catch you off guard, you mean?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

But you've not had that.

[B]

No, it's just you have to think it through, really. You know, so if anybody's listening that's got any problems with addiction, you don't pick up the first one and then you can't get drunk. You have to think it through to the end. What will happen then?

[A]

How are you first introduced to alcohol in your life?

[B]

I come from an Irish family in Wales. Does it need any more explanation?

[A]

As in, how old were you? How was it presented?

[B]

Well, all my life as kids, we'd sneak drinks from our parents cabinets.

[A]

And what age?

[B]

Preteen, definitely.

[A]

How did alcohol kind of inform your childhood? What was the impact? Extreme dysfunction in you or just the whole thing?

[B]

The whole family, you know, parents not being able to be there for you. Parties. There was lots of parties when I was a kid in the family. And they'd all start off very happy and loving each other, and then they'd all start singing and they'd get around the pianos and then they'd start crying. And then they'd start fighting. That was the pattern. That's what I thought adult life was.

[A]

It's quite a pattern.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Elise got some singing in there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Which is fun.

[B]

Yeah. It started off very well.

[A]

If only everyone just went to bed after singing would have been fine.

[B]

Used to hand them all tea towels as they'd walk in because he knew they'd all start crying before long and then they'd start fighting. So they needed us.

[A]

What did he hand them for the fighting?

[B]

Just in case there was any blood, I suppose. Yeah.

[A]

When you say fighting, what are we talking?

[B]

Fisticuffs? Yeah, big fisticuffs. There's a lot of men in the family.

[A]

And were you present for this fighting or just by then?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What was it like to kind of see that?

[B]

Well, I was a little girl. What do you think?

[A]

Terrifying.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you not want to just kind of run away from it?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And how did you place yourself in all of this, or how did you try and, like, mitigate that?

[B]

Well, you don't as a child. You just. I mean, when you're little, you adults around you have to be gods, because if they're not, you're in trouble, you know, so it's like just see people behave in that way, and you just thought that's how adults behave. So when you get older, then you go towards those situations in your life until you learn not to.

[A]

Did you only. Was it getting sober that was at the point where you started to kind of.

[B]

Realize it wasn't normal?

[A]

Yes. Do you hold any animosity towards anyone?

[B]

No. No. I mean, I don't hold resentments anymore. I did have. When I first came into recovery. I realized I didn't think I had, but I did realize I did have a lot of resentments, but I don't. I tend to ask for help. I ask, you know, the universe for help. Just to kind of let go of things if they're pissing me off too much.

[A]

You know. How. How far in were you able to that go?

[B]

A lot of years. Lot of years. A lot of hard work, doing the 12 steps helps.

[A]

Was anyone that emerged as a kind of hero in that time and obviously, you know, no one shining light, which kind of helped you. You felt like everyone was kind of against you. Ish. So you had no allies at all, really, in a. Just a massive family. So no one that is kind of looking out for you or anything. That's quite devastating. How have you found being a parent yourself? How have you found that experience?

[B]

It was difficult, but I also loved it. My daughter's an incredible woman now. Inspired me. She's great. She's 40 now. She's. Yeah, quite incredible.

[A]

And has your relationship always been pretty solid as it was?

[B]

Yeah, yeah, very solid.

[A]

And how about your relationship with dad?

[B]

Oh, he's lovely. He's my friend, you know, we split up pretty much after she was born, that we always been friends and he's always been the good dad to us.

[A]

Fantastic. What's currently bringing you the most joy in your life?

[B]

I don't know really. I mean, friendships, I suppose. People in my life. I write.

[A]

What do you write?

[B]

I'm writing memoirs.

[A]

Of your life.

[B]

It's been quite interesting over the years.

[A]

What. What bit are you on at the moment?

[B]

I'm not telling you. You'll have to read the book when it comes out.

[A]

Can you give me a teaser?

[B]

No.

[A]

I have interest. Why do you think? I'm not saying it isn't. Why do you think your life has been interesting?

[B]

Because it's been very unusual.

[A]

Can you tell me a bit more about what's been unusual about it?

[B]

No, I've had enough now.

[A]

Oh, you sure?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I want to hear about what's been unusual, though.

[B]

Well, all of it, really. All of it. BBC made a film about me.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

When I was young. Yeah. Because I ran away from home when I was 14.

[A]

You ran away from home when you were 14?

[B]

Yeah. I just told you about family. You said, didn't you feel like running away from that? So you got it?

[A]

Yeah. Tell me about what that was like. 14. 14, full runaway. As in no one knew.

[B]

Yeah. Yeah. I left Wales and came to London.

[A]

Can you talk me through that day?

[B]

It was pocket money day, 50 pence. And I bought a 10 pence ticket for the train because I knew I couldn't hitchhike because people would see me. So I went to Neath and I hitchhiked from there to London.

[A]

Who picked you up?

[B]

That got lots of different lives. It was men.

[A]

Do you remember what a 14 year old you was like? Who were you at that time?

[B]

I've always been quite creative and very imaginative and I kind of planned everything out how it was going to be and of course it was nothing like that when I got to London.

[A]

What had you imagined?

[B]

When you grow up in a small town in Wales, you hear the streets of London are paved with gold. And I just thought I was going to meet people. People were going to be decent to each other, people were going to be honest. I'd experienced violence within the family But I'd never kind of seen it. Like, I saw it when I came up here, because I arrived, I went to Piccadilly and there was a lot of other young runaways there. That's kind of where I spent most of my teenage years. So I grew up in London, really, from 14 to about 1920. And then I went off to Israel to live on the kibbutz. I'm not Jewish. I just went because it's a free holiday. Go pick oranges on the kibbutz.

[A]

Okay, so let's. Let's do a little rewind. So you land in Kibiti. How did you find?

[B]

Well, no, what? First thing I did was I phoned the Samaritans when I got to London and I told them I was 17 and I'd been brought up in an orphanage and I. Oh, wow.

[A]

You just totally, like.

[B]

Yeah, completely.

[A]

What was the thinking?

[B]

Well, that if I told them I. I had no family, that they would help me.

[A]

Clever.

[B]

I didn't know it worked. Yeah, they put me in a hostel.

[A]

Oh, well done. Clever of you.

[B]

Yeah, he was a very clever kid.

[A]

And so you end up in a hostel in Piccadilly?

[B]

No, in Marylebone.

[A]

Oh, Marylebone, yeah.

[B]

But I went down to Piccadilly.

[A]

Oh, I see. And that's where you met other runaways. And what was that community like? I mean, that.

[B]

Young. There was a place called Centrepoint on Shaftesbury Avenue, and it was like a doss house. Centrepoint is still running. I support Centrepoint now. I give them every month. That's just a way of giving back to them because they helped me when I first came here. And it was just like a place where you get a bed for the night. We all used to wait outside the gates and they'd open the gates and we'd go in and go downstairs. And it was just like a, you know, bunk beds, lots of bunk beds downstairs. They could be a hot meal and that. And then there was a place in the West End called Soho Project. And so in the morning you get kicked out at 8 o' clock and we'd come out of there and then go up to the Zoho Project and they'd give you kind of advice and, you know, stuff like that. I had a book called Alternative London, which was around at that time. And that gave you a lot of things where you could get, you know, free things. And there was a place in the West End, the Oasis. It's still there, but it used to be a bath house. But you could go in there and you could Get a bath and they'd give you a towel and that. And they used to cost about 20 pounds.

[A]

How long were you living in this way?

[B]

Just really when I first came up. Then I got a job in a hotel as a chambermaid. I got myself some false insurance cards. I can't remember how I found out about it, but I was sent to this place called Gals Girls Alone in London Service, which was in Houston. The lady there said to me, well, you have to get some insurance cards if you want a job. I mean, she didn't know my age because I told everybody at that point I was 17. So I went off to get some insurance cards, and I lied about my name, I lied about my age, and they gave me a set of insurance cards. And I dyed my hair black and blonde, wore fake tan on my skin, told people that I was mixed race.

[A]

Wow.

[B]

Not a lot of people believe me.

[A]

Why did you do this?

[B]

Because I wanted to be as different as I possibly could from who I actually, actually was.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

In order that I wouldn't get caught by the police and taken home.

[A]

I see. Did you ever feel close to that happening?

[B]

I was working in one hotel in the West End, my first ever job. And the reason I got a job as a chambermaid was because I could live in the hotel and I just had to clean the rooms. I wasn't very good at it. I was actually absolutely crap as a chambermaid. I mean, I was only 14.

[A]

But everyone thought you were 17. Did anybody know that you were 14?

[B]

No.

[A]

So, literally just keeping that to yourself the whole time? Do you think you started convincing yourself you were 17, or did you always know you were 14? What do you mean?

[B]

Well, I always thought I was an adult anyway because I had to grow up very quick at home. I mean, I wasn't. I was a little girl. I know that now, but I didn't know that then. I thought it was an adult.

[A]

Did you ever get a chance to be that little girl again?

[B]

No, never.

[A]

Is it ever too late? Obviously, you can't.

[B]

I'm just starting trauma therapy now to deal with all that stuff from back then. I'm going to be a pensioner in August, and that now is when I'm ready to do the trauma work. So maybe I can be a little girl again when I'm a bench. Maybe I'll come skipping around here picking dates.

[A]

Okay, so you got your fake insurance cards.

[B]

Yeah. And I got a job in a hotel as a chambermaid, which you were terrible at. Which I was really, really any Any.

[A]

Any. Any happy moments in the hotel?

[B]

Well, I was absolutely blown away by the fact that I had a room in a London hotel and it was beautiful and there were red velvet curtains. It was a really style hotel. But I left that hotel because there was a guy there and he was trying to get hold of me and I just wanted to get away from him. So I left that hotel and I went back down the West End. But then I found out that my father's friend, who had a surname, the surname that I was using, had gone to the hotel because my brother was a police inspector.

[A]

So. Your brother. Your.

[B]

My brother. My eldest brother.

[A]

Your eldest, was a police inspector in London. Oh, that's complicated.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Was he trying to find you? Yeah, so I'm getting that.

[B]

Well, everybody was trying to find me.

[A]

Oh, okay. Yeah.

[B]

And he had found out somehow that I was working at this hotel and they told my parents and they found out the name that I was using, but I had already left by then. I'd gone over to Victoria and I was working at a Golden Egg restaurant. Gave me a job as a coffee girl in there. And somehow my brother had found out that I was in the Victoria area and there was a body found in Victoria Station, a young girl about my age. And my mother thought it was me and it was quite terrifying for her. I didn't know about that at the time. I found all this out much later.

[A]

So she genuinely thought it was you?

[B]

I mean, she thought it was me at first. She just didn't know where I was.

[A]

So everyone was trying to find you. Surely someone must have.

[B]

No.

[A]

No one found you?

[B]

First time I went home after three months, I went home on Mother's Day because I thought my mother was going to die, because it was a big guilt thing in my family. In. It was like, what are you doing to your mother? And.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

All that kind of stuff.

[A]

Oh, hang on. So after you run away, you went home?

[B]

I went home, but that's when the BBC made a film about me. But then I left again just after the film was completed, and then I never went out.

[A]

Okay. So.

[B]

Yeah, see the difficulty in writing memoirs, it's all.

[A]

It's everywhere, isn't it? Okay, why did the BBC make a film about you?

[B]

Because my father had seen an ad in a newspaper, I think it was a national newspaper saying, runaway teenagers in London, please contact this number.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he took it to the police station and he said, my daughter's run away, she's in London and I want to know who this person is. Who's asking for teenagers to get in touch. And it turned out to be a baby producer who then phoned my father and said, do you think I make a film? And my father said, well, if you can find her, you can ask her. But I went home just after that. I didn't know about that. And my father told me about it. And then the producer called me the next day and asked me if I wanted to make a film. And I was 14. I said, yes, yeah, of course.

[A]

So you ran away with it?

[B]

My hair went orange because my auntie was a hairdresser and she tried to get it back to blonde, and it went bright orange because I dyed it black. So I had orange hair.

[A]

Going back on Mother's Day to day sealed mutt. Would you remember of that? What do you remember of that day?

[B]

I just went home and I knocked the door. My mother answered the door and she just said, oh, hello, darling. She just put her arms around me. And my father came out. He was in the house as well. And they, you know, they were just glad to have me home. And they tried to be a lot more understanding after that, you know, in the beginning, but then it quickly reverted back to the way it was.

[A]

How long did you hang around for?

[B]

Well, it took about three weeks to make the film, and I think I left about two weeks after the film was completed.

[A]

And then that was it.

[B]

Well, I went home, you know, once I was. Once I turned 16 and they couldn't keep me there anymore. I could go home for like a month at a time or a week at a time or whatever, see the family, and then I'd leave again.

[A]

Yeah. You didn't abandon them completely?

[B]

No, I mean, I'm still in touch with some members of my family. There's none of the older generation left now. My cousins are around, both my brothers are. One has Alzheimer's and the other is in a home because he drank himself into a brain bleed.

[A]

Oh, God. What was it like just once, as your parents got older, was anything reconciled at all?

[B]

It didn't get older. My mother died when she was 53. I was 17, and I thought I'd killed her. My whole family believed that as well.

[A]

So you thought you had killed her by running away?

[B]

By being the way I was.

[A]

I see.

[B]

There was no therapy at that time. There was no understanding of what a child had gone through or anything like that. It was all kind of. You were just a bad seed.

[A]

And you believe that?

[B]

Yeah, absolutely. I believed it till well into my adulthood.

[A]

What did that do to you?

[B]

Well, what do you think? It was horrible. I thought I'd killed my mother. My whole family agreed with that.

[A]

Did they put that on you, or did you.

[B]

I mean, yeah, they put that on me. I put it on myself, but they put it on me as well.

[A]

That's insane, isn't it?

[B]

I still deal with that now. Like in the 12 step program we have. One of the steps is making amends to people, and I couldn't make amends to my mother. You know, she's the biggest one, because my mother was lovely. She was very gentle. She cried all the time. My father was a nightmare. He was a narcissist and very, very violent. And my two brothers were both violent as well. Police much older than me. There's a lot of abuse.

[A]

Did. Did your mother die suddenly?

[B]

Yeah, heart attack. So she died of a broken heart, according to the family. It's like a therapy session, isn't it?

[A]

It's always a it. But, wow, it's so brutal. And how long after that did it dawn on you that actually. No, hang on. I didn't actually kill my mother.

[B]

I actually. It was when I was about 30. 30, 31 that I was in Egypt, and I'd gone on a healing tour, and the guy that was leading the tour was very, very brilliant man, brilliant healer. And, you know, he spoke to me in depth about stuff, and he said, you know, you didn't kill your mother. You didn't do it. And that was the first time anybody had told me that I didn't do it.

[A]

What about dad?

[B]

He. He died in 2003, but he. After my mother died, he moved in with his. With a woman he'd been having an affair with for, you know, 15 years. Sixteen, while my mother was alive. He moved in with her. Within three months.

[A]

They'd had an affair for 15 years.

[B]

My mother knew about it. The whole family knew about it. They were caught quite early on because the woman's husband had gone up to my house and told my mother. I mean, I was three when they met. And then he went away and married her. Ran away to Gretna Green.

[A]

Classic.

[B]

I mean, you couldn't make these things up.

[A]

You just couldn't. And when he died, did you get a chance to say anything to him? Did he die suddenly as well?

[B]

He had cancer. He was dying, but I kind of ran away again. And I was still drinking when he died, because the first time I got Sober was in 1990, and then I was in and out for a few years, and then I got a Few years sober. I'm doing an AA SHA here and then I relapsed for 10 years but now I've been sober for 20 years.

[A]

Amazing, given all you've endured. So you didn't get a chance. So you.

[B]

I ran away.

[A]

You let your dad die, basically.

[B]

Well, I was there. I'd gone back with a guy that I been with years ago when my daughter was a baby. When I'd left the father and I'd gone back to Wales, met up with a guy that I'd been in school with and he turned out to be really violent as well. And I couldn't leave him in the beginning because my daughter was a ward of court because of my addictions.

[A]

Oh, sugar.

[B]

Because it wasn't just alcohol. This was getting too deep for me. I can't do it anymore. I can't. Cuz it, it's. You know, I'm just starting this trauma therapy and I can't go any further with this right now.

[A]

I, you know, we do some lightness. If I see some light things.

[B]

Yeah, if you want. W.

[A]

Obviously that's a lot of heavy things, but there's also all of your.

[B]

Well, I got into healing but you know, kind of.

[A]

So you go into Egypt. Why are you going? Oh, actually.

[B]

So kibbutz, that was Israel, that was in 1979.

[A]

And he did that because.

[B]

Because I wanted a free holiday and I could pick oranges. I went there with a girlfriend. She suggested that she was an artist. I knew nothing about Israel, knew nothing about the. The conflict over there. I knew nothing about Palestine. I was 19 and I'd been a runaway. But I went over with my friend, she was lovely. And we went and we stayed on the kibbutz and we were working in the orange groves. They give you a little hat to live in and free cigarettes, free beer and 30 pound a month pocket money. And then I met a French girl there and her. And I left that kibbutz and went down to another one and we ended up in Kibbutz Reim, which was the one where the festival was that was attacked. But it started the whole thing in Gaza. It was in between Gaza and Beersheba. Yeah, and Beersheba was really modern and you know, like could have been anywhere, like New York, Paris, London. Gaza was like stepping back into the Middle Ages. But the people were lovely. I went to Gaza and they didn't want me, the people on the kibbutz didn't want me to go to Gaza. They said, you know, you can't go to Gaza on Your own, you know, so group of girls went. We took one guy with us, a token guy with us, French guy, just went in for the day. But it was really. It was like a rebel town then, you know, this was in 1979. It wasn't like it is now, obviously, you know, and what's happening in Gaza absolutely breaks my heart. You know, it broke my heart when Raim got attacked because I lived there. But looking at what is Israel have done there is just. It's beyond belief. It's heartbreaking what they're doing because they're behaving like the way they were treated. That's my opinion of it.

[A]

To what extent does your time there.

[B]

Well, I was there there for a year, so I loved the people that I knew on the kibbutz, the Israeli people. There were a lot of gn, which is the Women's army, that were on the kibbutz as well. So I met a lot of people, made some really lovely friends there. They are beautiful people. They're not the government. What the government are doing, what the idea doing is awful. And I can't, you know, even though I. I loved the people that I knew back in 1979 on the Kivot, it was my first time really abroad, living abroad, you know, I can't agree with what they're doing.

[A]

Do you think the world is as bad as it's ever been?

[B]

I think it's hitting rock bottom. Like when you deal with addiction, you have to hit a rock bottom before you can get back up again.

[A]

They've all got to go to aa.

[B]

Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I was listening to the words of that Bob Dylan song, you know, about the masters of War, you know, go and stand on their grave until he's sure that they're dead, you know? Yeah. It's like I don't understand humanity anymore. I really don't, you know, But I think it's a rock bottom that society is hitting. And I think the governments are so out of control now, the corruption is in your faces. So people are waking up because they have to. They're not even hiding it anymore. They're just shoving it in people's faces, you know, this is what we're doing. We are corrupt. Fuck you. What are you gonna do about it?

[A]

If it's any consolation, having spoken to so many people now, I've got no fear at all for the people that have just on benches. I mean, what I mean is, you know, humanity itself is fine. It maybe has always been fine. The problem is, it's the People who.

[B]

Make the lunatics that are in control. They've got everybody by the short and curly's, haven't they? Because it's kind of. Everybody wants to keep their little bit of what they've got. Everybody's afraid of losing that. I mean, homeless. And we see it every day. We see it on this. You walk up Tottenham Court Road, you see tent city on Tottenham Court Road. We see every day what can happen. I'm not a conspiracy theorist and I think conspiracy theorism is just bullshit. It's something that was just put on people so that we wouldn't look any deeper. But you see what can happen if you don't confront form. And so everyone's bloody terrified.

[A]

There always has been. I mean.

[B]

Yeah, but it's scary.

[A]

And as soon as one drops, another one comes, you know, and in that sense you can kind of tell, you know, fear helps economies, you know, I mean, like it, it like keep everybody.

[B]

In fear and you can control them.

[A]

Really useful.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Can I ask about Egypt?

[B]

Yeah, what do you want to ask?

[A]

What happened in Egypt, apart from the. Your healing journey?

[B]

Oh, it's amazing. Egypt is incredible.

[A]

Why did you go to Egypt then?

[B]

Because I wanted to.

[A]

Can I ask? I'm guess I'm starting to see a theme now, you know, you ran away at 14.

[B]

I did a lot of geographicals in my life. I went to a lot of places.

[A]

I mean, how long did, how long was that mindset in you of just keeping going, going, going from place to place before you stop?

[B]

Well, I mean, I still travel now. I love to try. If I had the choice and money was no object and there was nothing at all to fear, I would travel non stop. I wouldn't live anywhere.

[A]

Do you like living somewhere? Has it been a pain?

[B]

Where I live now is the longest I've lived anywhere since I left home.

[A]

So you do feel kind of settled?

[B]

Well, yeah, I've been there 12 years. The place I'm in now.

[A]

You live alone?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How's that? I like it is life has put you off other people.

[B]

I did get into like a toxic kind of situation with somebody last year, but it was very intense, very toxic. Lasted a couple of months and was very painful and I decided, no, I'm not going to do that again.

[A]

What have you learned about men in your life?

[B]

About men?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Well, I mean, most of my trauma came from men, to be honest. I was a 14 year old on my own in London. So you can imagine what happened. I, you know, for me growing up, men were violent Men were scary, they were loud. I do have some very, very good male friends. As long as they stay friends. That's kind of what I feel about men a lot of the time. Time, Yeah.

[A]

Can I ask you who's been. Who is the greatest love of your life? Do you know who that would be if I asked you that question?

[B]

I don't think I've ever really loved anybody. I think there's a couple of people in my life I've ever really loved, and one was my mother, one is my daughter, and the only other person I think I've ever really, truly loved is my auntie. I've been in what I thought was love. And I did have one partner that was very violent and beat me up. And I left him after a year. And then he said, stalked me for about 16 years, found me wherever I was.

[A]

16 years?

[B]

16 years he'd find me. I was staying in a hotel in London and he turned up the door, knock, and I said, who is it? And he said, room service. And I opened the door and it was him. Stood down. He would just find me wherever I was. And he was a lunatic, you know.

[A]

16 years.

[B]

16 of that. Yeah, yeah. Not all the day. It wasn't constant during that time, but it was like he would just turn up.

[A]

But it is a kind of concert in a sense, that if you said someone could turn up at any time, then it's a constant worry, surely.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. And he was frightened. He was very frightening.

[A]

How did it stop?

[B]

Well, I disappeared, basically. He didn't know where I was, you know, he doesn't know where I live now. He turned up. I went back to Wales a couple of years ago and he turned up at my uncle's funeral. I hadn't seen him. I hadn't seen him for about probably 20 years.

[A]

When. When he encounters you, what's he said? What. What does he say about?

[B]

Well, he tried to speak to me and I just said hello to him to be polite, but I ignored him for the rest of the time. And then he found my number from somebody and he sent me a bunch of abusive texts. And that's when I found out that I had ptsd. My daughter was sitting there with me and I was trying to reply to him to tell him to leave me alone. And I was shaking and she looked at me and she said, man, that's ptsd. You want to go see the doctor? This was a few years ago and I went to see the doctor and this is why I'm starting trauma therapy now. I'VE been waiting three years because that's the state of the mental health situation again. So ptsd, but it's cptsd, so it's complex ptsd. It comes from early on and it's just something that builds up through your life. I didn't know what these feelings were. If I got any sense, like disapproval from anybody, these feelings would come up that would threaten to choke me and I'd have these flashbacks all the time. I didn't know what I thought PTSD was something that happened to people who'd witnessed bombs and things like that, not people like me, but apparently that's what I've got.

[A]

You've been through a lot.

[B]

Yeah. I'm still here, though.

[A]

You are still here. I mean, if it's not too weird of me saying you seem very healthy and full of life and now I'm.

[B]

A walking bloody miracle.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

You know, you have a kind of natural glow, you know, in you that hasn't been. That hasn't been danced.

[B]

What I find amazing. I'm just starting to like myself. I realized, you know, when I started this journey of therapy and I realized that. That through everything I never got bitter. You know, I've been sad. I'm sad about it, but I've been angry about it. But I've been angry with myself more than anything else for putting myself in those situations. And then I realized I didn't actually put myself in those situations.

[A]

You were just running from stuff.

[B]

Yeah. And I'm actually starting to think, do you know what? I am alright. I am an alright person. And recovery is helping for that. You know?

[A]

What would you like the rest of your life to look like?

[B]

Calm.

[A]

You deserve it.

[B]

Just living and healing and seeing the world heal. Bearing witness to. To the healing of the planet. I don't mean the planet, because she'll heal anyway. She's fine. It's us.

[A]

We're the problem.

[B]

We need to heal.

[A]

We've always been the problem. What is there left to ask you? Is there anything I missed? Is any really important thing that I've missed?

[B]

I don't even want to go there.

[A]

You don't want to go? I always find that fascinating that there will always be these things. Especially when I talk about a life like yours. I've talked to one other runaway.

[B]

So you're not a runaway virgin?

[A]

I'm not a runaway virgin exactly. But when she left the conversation and she's walked about to walk off, I tidied all this kit away, turned off all the microphones, put it in my bag and she turns around to me and she says, next time I see you, I have to tell you about the time that I was a bank robber.

[B]

A bank robber, Right.

[A]

I can't get this stuff out quick enough. I think she had an appointment anyway. And she, she had gone and I was like, I can't believe that I had a bank robber on the bench. And I didn't get a chance to talk about it. But now you're here.

[B]

I'm not a bank robber.

[A]

But if you got a bank robber thing that I would be devastated to not have asked you about. Do you see what I mean? Have you got nothing? No equivalent.

[B]

No equivalent Being a bank robber? No. No.

[A]

That's good. So I can leave here in peace knowing that I haven't missed a huge thing.

[B]

Oh, you've missed loads. But you know, I've never been a bank robber. I don't know why I've even talked this much to a complete stranger. You have a definite skill, darling. Really? Yeah. Follow that intuition. It's a good intuition.

[A]

Well, that's what I'm literally doing.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's, there's some people have really bright lights in them. Maybe this is a bit woo woo, but I like to think that, you know, those who have bright lights, you know, the hardships they've endured has, has forced that light more to the surface.

[B]

Well, it's a saying, isn't it, that religion is for people who want to go to heaven and spirituality is for people who've been to hell and back.

[A]

Makes sense. Do you want to help heal other people?

[B]

Yeah, well, that's what I work with now. I mean, I do a lot of healing work. I was in Ibiza doing a sound healing course. I work in that field. I've been working in that field for many years.

[A]

When you hear sounds, do you see colors?

[B]

No, I don't. I don't actually see sounding. I don't think I do anyway. I mean, I see a lot of stuff, you know, like I do a lot of gong baths. I don't play the gong myself.

[A]

Surely anyone can play a gong.

[B]

Anyone can play. Well, anyone can bang a gong.

[A]

How does a gong bath work?

[B]

Have you never had a gong bath?

[A]

No.

[B]

Oh my God. You've got to try it. It's the best, honestly. You just lie down, you know, it's like a meditation really. But you got somebody there who's playing the gong and the crystal bowls and things. So you have these sounds and, and sounds are very powerful. That's why music is so Powerful. I mean, nothing makes people move their bodies in strange ways. Apart from music, Right? So music, sound. Sam is very, very powerful. It's a powerful healer. I mean, you can get some amazing sounds from the gong. Whale sounds. And everything's beautiful. The vibration of the gong, it just does something. I don't know the science of it, but I know that it works. It takes you off to another dimension entirely. And it's incredibly healing. You know, I was in Egypt last year and we sailed down the Nile having gong baths. It was incredible healing. Amazing. Yeah. Healing. That's the thing. I think that I feel that we're all born with a set of lessons to alone. We're here to bear witness to the rest of it, to the healing.

[A]

What's the lesson you're most keen to learn, you haven't yet learned?

[B]

That we're all. We're all one. Really? To really know that. Because I know it intellectually, we're all one big universal family. Let's start helping each other instead of hating each other.

[A]

Simple really. In many ways.

[B]

Cuz we live on a paradise. We have a paradise to live on. And we're just really it up and each other. Yeah. All right. You done?

[A]

I think we're done. Can I just one more thing. They always end of the same question. What are you going to do next?

[B]

Walk home.

[A]

Thank you so much for talking to me.

[B]

You're very welcome.

[A]

Completely fascinating.

[B]

That's all right.

[A]

I know at parts you weren't super keen to carry on different ways.

[B]

It's been interesting.

[A]

I'm really glad you did.

[B]

Very. It's been stress inducing in parts.

[A]

I hope not too much. Well, thank you for following us, Tertia.

[B]

Thank you for following ours. Fair witness. Tuesday is green Red flower cardoon. Sa. On a paradise if we could only see its color if we could only shine. Running away from the vine Running away from the fight Running into.

[A]

Running.

[B]

Ram. Sa.