EPISODE 75: Donna

Summary

Strangers on a Bench — EPISODE 75: Donna

Date: February 16, 2026
Host: Tom Rosenthal
Guest: John (pseudonym, as per format)

---

Overview

In this moving episode, Tom Rosenthal sits beside John, a man spending his Friday afternoon on a park bench to keep himself occupied after the loss of his wife, Donna, three years ago. The conversation traverses topics of grief, companionship (both human and animal), lasting love, and finding meaning in daily life. John shares candid memories of Donna, his experience navigating grief, quirky tales of his pets, and reflections on the value of small joys. With humor and raw honesty, the episode beautifully explores how a person carries the memory of a lost loved one and the challenge—and necessity—of embracing new chapters.

---

Key Discussion Points and Insights

1. Friday Afternoons & Grieving Weekends

• John explains that while he looks forward to Fridays, the weekends are hardest since his wife passed, due to unstructured time and loneliness ([00:55]).
• He keeps himself occupied with activities like cycling, visiting friends, or tending to his pets.

2. Pet Companionship: Cat and Rico the Tortoise

• An endearing segment where John describes life with his cat and especially Rico, his tortoise ([01:41]–[05:32]).
• Rico’s origins: Found by John’s brother-in-law wandering in the countryside, renamed "Rico" for speediness ([02:05]).
• John’s unique relationship with Rico includes training him, building an obstacle course, and sharing amusing anecdotes about the tortoise’s interactions with the cat.

"He's like Alex Honnold, free solo. He does his own thing."
— John ([02:33])

• John discusses the intelligence of tortoises and their epic lifespan, linking Rico's hibernation schedule to Donna’s birthday ([03:30]–[04:27]).

3. Grief, Guilt, and Memory

• John opens up about the evolution of his grief and how rituals, like hibernating Rico on Donna’s birthday, keep her memory alive ([05:54]–[07:28]).
• Early grieving involved physically marking anniversaries, but he found it too painful and now focuses on appreciating Donna in other ways.
• He describes the guilt of finding joy after tragedy:

“Of laughing, enjoying life. And should I be mourning? Should I just be sad? But Donna would be like, what are you doing?”
— John ([07:30])

• He acknowledges how hard it is to listen to common advice and platitudes about grief.

"Oh, time’s a great healer. Yeah, fuck off."
— John ([07:48])

4. Remembering Donna

• Tom asks John to share memories of his wife ([08:07]–[14:38]).

  • Donna was his longtime partner (25 years), "just lovely," and the first person he ever loved ([08:13]).
  • She struggled with type-1 diabetes from a young age, leading to serious complications.
  • Even as her health failed, Donna remained resilient and caring.
  • The couple never had children, a decision made in light of Donna’s health—though John now sometimes wishes he had that focus.

• On loss and maintaining love:

  • John still wears his wedding ring (amalgamated from both spouses' rings) and shares touching details of having it crafted ([34:59]).
  • He watches old videos to hear her voice and relive memories ([12:47]).

5. Navigating Social Changes After Loss

• John notes the social isolation that can accompany bereavement ([17:41]–[18:57]).

  • Many friends drifted away, particularly those newer in his life, often due to discomfort with grief.
  • He jokes about writing a four-page book titled “Don’t be a twat” about how to treat grieving friends ([19:04]).
  • He prefers awkward attempts at comfort over avoidance.

• Rituals maintain connection, such as kissing Donna’s photo every time he leaves the house ([19:32]).

6. Life, Action, and Generosity

• John fills his life with new pursuits:

  • He’s an avid cyclist—recently buying rare touring books and inviting international cycling guests to stay through the Warm Showers network ([21:04]–[22:21]).
  • He provides extensive hospitality to cycling guests, saying, "It’s the greatest Airbnb ever."

• He derives meaning from kindness, both given and received.

“Some people are nice because they’re just nice and don’t want anything.”
— John ([24:47])

7. Work and Surrogate Family

• John works for a Russian family as an estate manager, driver, and more ([12:02], [23:35]–[24:24]).
  • He has watched their children grow and become their “gay uncle dad” ([24:13]).
  • The family’s differing cultural outlooks provide John with new perspectives.

8. Life Lessons from Karate

• A lifelong practitioner, John has only used karate outside the dojo twice—once to break up a racist assault ([28:13]–[30:50]).
  • The discipline taught him resilience, patience, and commitment.

“Everything takes time. There’s no shortcut. It’s commitment, dedication… better to be judged by 12 than carried by six, you know. Just gotta be smart.”
— John ([28:18])

9. Love, Mortality, and Moving Forward

• John's relationship with Donna was defined by humor, compassion, and adventure ([12:37], [33:28]).
  • He reflects on dreams where Donna appears young and healthy, highlighting the enduring presence of memory ([37:14]).
  • Offers poignant life advice for listeners in relationships:

“Enjoy this. It’s so precious. Not all money, work and that crap. It’s about sitting on a bench, talking to a stranger, doing crap drawings… So glad you stopped.”
— John ([38:00])

• He acknowledges a newfound sense of possibility—a blank canvas, the chance to redefine himself at “a young 50” ([33:24]).

---

Notable Quotes & Moments (With Timestamps)

• On the pace of tortoise life ([03:30]):
  “They’ve reached their maximum. I don’t need to evolve.”

• On the awkwardness of advice after loss ([07:48]):
  “Oh, time’s a great healer. Yeah, fuck off.”

• On the social challenges of bereavement ([18:02]):
  “Lost a lot of friends. A hell of a lot.”

• How he’d sum up advice for the grieving ([19:04]):
  "Don't be a twat… Don't be a twat. Don't turn it. Be a Twat."

• On hosting international cyclists ([22:20]):
  “I go full monty. It’s like the greatest Airbnb ever. Beer, wine, salad starters, desserts.”

• On choosing not to have children ([31:38]):
  “Because she said it wouldn’t be fair. I might not be here in the future, so let’s give that opportunity… for someone else.”

• On forging his wedding ring after Donna’s death ([34:59]):
  “…he said, why don’t I just put them together? I never even thought of that. I went, yeah, yeah, okay, do that. And… he emailed me the next day… said, ‘won’t charge her. It's a gift from me to you.’ Just like, what the fuck? It's amazing.”

• Life advice to listeners ([38:00]):
  “Enjoy this. It’s all you’ve got… It’s so precious, so precious. And I’ve lost and I know how precious it is.”

---

Timestamps: Key Segments

| Timestamp | Segment | |-----------|--------------------------------------------------------------| | 00:55 | Fridays & the difficulty of weekends after loss | | 01:40–05:32| Stories of Rico the tortoise and the cat | | 05:54 | How pets connect to memories of Donna | | 07:28 | Guilt and the struggles of finding joy post-loss | | 08:13 | John’s reminiscences on Donna and their life together | | 12:02 | Working for a Russian family—surrogate family stories | | 14:38 | Spiritual beliefs, coincidences, and messages from Donna | | 17:41 | Social isolation after bereavement; “Don’t be a twat” advice| | 19:32 | Rituals to remember Donna | | 21:04–22:21| Hosting international cyclists, Warm Showers community | | 23:35 | Reflections on Russian family and cultural differences | | 28:13 | Lessons from karate and using it in self-defense | | 31:08 | Choices about having children—explained | | 34:59 | Story of combining wedding rings | | 38:00 | Advice to those in relationships—cherishing the present | | 40:00 | John closes with a touching poem/song about healing |

---

Memorable Closing

At the episode’s end, John shares a heartfelt spoken-word poem or song about loss, drawing, karate, thunder, and Donna’s enduring presence ([40:00]):

"I’ve started writing / Gonna do a rat race in your name / Put a smile on my face it’s for me right now / it’s just me right now."

---

Tone & Takeaway

John’s unfiltered openness about grief, healing, and ordinary joys is both deeply touching and frequently funny. His warmth, wit, and defiant optimism make the episode a powerful meditation on love, loss, and what it means to move forward, one park bench conversation—and one click for Rico the tortoise—at a time.

---

For Listeners:

Whether or not you’ve known loss, John’s story is a reminder of how connection—whether with a stranger, a pet, or a memory—can keep us tethered in the hardest of times.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. Is there a day of the week that you favor?

[John]

I think it's got to be Friday, but it comes with trepidation for me. Look forward to it because it's end of the week but I'm. I lost my wife three years ago, so it's hard weekends. Okay, so. So hence why I'm sitting in there trying to keep myself occupied.

[Interviewer]

Well, I can keep you occupied for a bed.

[John]

Yeah, do it.

[Interviewer]

Can I ask why weekends set you off?

[John]

Too much time on my hands. You know, yesterday I met a mate and went out riding for five hours and then I haven't seen anyone Today I got dinner with my parents at 6 but I'm probably gonna bail.

[Interviewer]

So you were riding yesterday, did you say?

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Just on my bike.

[Interviewer]

A bike with a motor?

[John]

No, no, with a spike or just did I bet 40 mile cold beer in a garden and finish and off you go. Wonderful. Yeah, it's nice. So today sort of. Right on. We're gonna do so fed the cat and the tortoise.

[Interviewer]

You say tortoise? Yeah, just casually chuck that in there.

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

The cat for the tortoise.

[John]

Rico. Rico's the tortoise.

[Interviewer]

Rico the tortoise.

[John]

My brother in law found him walking up a street, middle of countryside nowhere years ago. Yeah, and then my brother in law moved to France and said to me and why John's tortoise? He was called Henry but we named him Rico because it sounds quicker. They're insanely intelligent. Come out and give him a click and he'll head up. He's gone.

[Interviewer]

How you you click for Rico?

[John]

I click and Rico looks up and comes over. Happy Tortoise is a climbing tortoise. So I've got a little obstacle course in the garden and yeah, he loves it.

[Interviewer]

So you've got a big old.

[John]

I've got not a massive garden bouldering set up. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. He's like Alex Honnold, you know, free solo. He does his own thing. But every day I get home from work, make sure he's not upside down because sometimes he lands and can't turn himself back over. But he's as good as he can't right himself. Last summer my cat had a big chunk out of his tail because as soon as the cat lays down, the tortoise just climbs all over the tortoise.

[Interviewer]

Climbs on the cat.

[John]

Ah. Just could get on just there.

[Interviewer]

This is the first time I've ever heard about a kind of cat tortoise dynamic.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is there any affection there from either side?

[John]

Yeah. Because I caught them today having a little cuddle, you can say in the shade, you know, when they see me, when they're all fighting and stuff. But moon cat's just laying there and Rico's just sort of snuggled in and genuinely. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But it's brilliant. I fly mowed the grass last week. And they're fearless. Just comes bombarding towards the flymo and the tortoise. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

They're not fearful of anything.

[John]

No.

[Interviewer]

Because they can live so long.

[John]

Yeah, they're perfect. Space man. How long they've been on the planet all a million years and they just, they've reached their maximum. I don't need to evolve.

[Interviewer]

They live to like 150 or something.

[John]

The oldest one is I think 189 or something like that.

[Interviewer]

Crazy.

[John]

I think it was born the same year as Queen Victoria or something like that. Oh, wow. Yeah, it's nuts. And yeah, there was one I saw last week. I'm a bit of, you know, tortoise thing. You look up online, it just pops up on your newsfeed. And there's one I saw the other day that this tortoise is a male tortoise, 159 years old, just had a baby. So now they realize he's not a male.

[Interviewer]

So it's like they can breed at 159.

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Isn't that the first baby?

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

I don't know how you got used to life.

[John]

Yeah, that's it. They're like students. Yeah, yeah. They like. I said to them they're the perfect pet because they're up for six months a year. Then they go to sleep. You know, I put him to bed at. I always put him. October 21st, that's my wife's birthday. So I put him to bed then and get him up in about middle of April. Sleeps in a wine box in the shed.

[Interviewer]

Okay, let's rewind a minute. You put him to bed.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How do you decide today is the day?

[John]

Because he slows up. Yeah. They don't eat for a while.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[John]

And all they do is drink fluid on and then they empty themselves out so they don't, you know. And then you weigh them and you measure them and Then you should do that once a month, I think, just to make sure they're not dehydrating whilst they're hibernating, if they do take to a vet. And then they just slow up and you think, yeah, now's the time. You just got to think, don't seem to move much. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then how do you know when the rising happens?

[John]

So I can hear him moving around. So I go in the shed and you can hear him banging about. I have done. I have to have, like, dumbbell weights on top of the box because they push out. So when you kind of go in there, you hear a bit of bang and you think, yeah, time to come up. And then he'll come out and does.

[Interviewer]

He get a special treat, you know, when he's released? You know, Is it a kind of big moment?

[John]

It's. Well, yeah, it's just straight in the water, really. I got a little. It's like a lid of a container, you know, like you'd have your. You put books into storage or something. One of them fill up with water and it's like a little swimming pool. So I put them in there and. Yeah, drinks that up and they can drink through their anus.

[Interviewer]

Whoa. Okay.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Wow.

[John]

So I've been told. I've tried it. It doesn't work. But, yeah, they do that. And. Yeah, then it's just like crack.

[Interviewer]

Can you describe the joy that the tortoise brings you?

[John]

It's. It's a. It's a link to my. I lost my wife, say, three years ago this year. And it's sort of a link to her as well.

[Interviewer]

What did she think of the tortoise?

[John]

Loved it. Could sit in the garden and just. It's just hours of fun. Everyone that comes around is like, oh, my God, I didn't know a tortoise was like that. And they just. You think, I'll be long gone and he'll be not even halfway through his life. Did it.

[Interviewer]

His youth. Did it as prime.

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

You mentioned October 21st in relation to your wife. What date?

[John]

That's my wife's birthday.

[Interviewer]

How did you choose to mark that day since she's died?

[John]

Do you know when she first passed? Every opportunity I had or anniversary, I'd go to the next bailong because we got married just 50 meters from the beach and have a little place there and I'd chuck a rose in the water and I'd see it go and it'd break my heart. So I thought, what am I doing that for my Wife would be like, you're an idiot. What are you doing? You know? She died in September and so her 47th birthday was matter of a month after. So I was doing all the wedding anniversary, the birthday, Christmas, going down there and doing it and getting up at five in the morning and blah, blah, blah, and then thinking, it's just killing me. It's just so tough. So now I just don't know, Appreciate her in other ways. I'm understanding grief a bit more, that I can still smile, I can still laugh and not feel guilty. But that's taken me a while to realise and I still get caught, as you saw at the beginning, you know, it's. Yeah, it's horrendous.

[Interviewer]

When you say you feel guilty, what do you mean?

[John]

Of laughing, enjoying life. And should I be mourning? Should I just be sad? But Donna would be like, what are you doing?

[Interviewer]

Surely you want you to be as happy as possible. The more laughter the better.

[John]

Absolutely. But it's hard. Everyone gives great advice, but not many people lost their lives. Oh, time's a great healer. Yeah, fuck off.

[Interviewer]

Do you mind if I ask a few questions about her?

[John]

Yes, you can. Love to.

[Interviewer]

What she like?

[John]

Amazing. Just lovely. Just lovely. Yeah, just the nicest person. Just first person I ever loved together 25 years. Give me freedom to do as well what I wanted to or needed to. I did karate and I traveled the world doing that there some places. And I got a job in Australia and she said, you have to go. I'll come over and see how that goes. And. And then towards the end, she. She was diabetic and she had. She got sepsis. That's what killed her. She had her legs amputated. Just kept going. Insurance and just a massive loss, you know, massive. So I'm here now. I. Trying to keep myself occupied, so. Trying to draw and there's crap. Crap drawing, crap drawing. When my wife died, I used to come down here, walking in the winter and smoke a cigar. Never smoke cigars.

[Interviewer]

Oh, really? You just died that after she died?

[John]

Because I.

[Interviewer]

Could you just do anything?

[John]

It's disgusting.

[Interviewer]

Oh, it's disgusting. Is there a sense that when someone so close to you dies like that and it's so obviously, you know, devastating and everything, is there a sense that you're like, fuck it, I'm just gonna just do anything?

[John]

Yeah. I did karate for 35 years. Had a club in town, classes four days a week. My life. And stop now, don't do it, because that's for everyone else. I need time for me now. And it was also very much my take a breath escape. If I'm doing that. I'm not thinking of hospital or dialysis and what have you. So it sort of. Yeah, it does. Gives you that freedom to do. I never went home for eight years, nine years straight from work to either dialysis or straight to karate. So coming home and sitting in the garden at 6 o' clock is like, wow, this is what people do. Just, you know, it's kind of nice to do nothing.

[Interviewer]

It's a skill, but it's kind of nice to do nothing. But you said earlier that it can cause you pain to not fill your time. So how do you balance that out?

[John]

It's nice to do nothing sometimes, but at the same time, that's why I'm out now, you know, I'm sort of just trying to fill the time until 6 o' clock and I go for dinner. I even went to work today to clean swimming pool. Just to sort of keep yourself busy, you know, and. Because your mind just, you know, and going out's difficult because, look, everyone's with their wives and girlfriends and kids. We didn't have children. Oh, yeah. Everyone's rubbing my nose in it. But they're not. I know they're not, you know?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Do you think about it every time you see someone?

[John]

I think about it every minute.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[John]

Yes. All consuming for me, you know, and it is a friend of mine, his wife died two months after Donna and he's dating and everything. And me, you know, I still got my wife's wedding ring on. I'd have bands put together. I'm still in love.

[Interviewer]

And what do people say to you about that? I mean, do people encourage you to date again?

[John]

No, not really. No. They haven't. Some. Like my people, I work for a wealthy Russian family and the kids are six children. I've been there like 11 years, you know, youngest is now 19, so they've been with me for years.

[Interviewer]

So you work with a Russian family?

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's intriguing. Okay. But what do you do with this Russian family?

[John]

Karate, everything? No, I run their estate and then also driver and Pa and like today I check on the swimming pool, make sure that's tidy for them when they get home tomorrow, you know, and whatever. So it's. The girls are like, you know, you get out there, get dating and Donna would love it and blah, blah, blah. But it's sort of. Yeah, when I'm ready, you know, no rush, of course.

[Interviewer]

What would you do together now? What small things. Would you. Did you do together, which you go back to.

[John]

I would just try and make her laugh all the time.

[Interviewer]

What was your hit rate?

[John]

Bloody good. And the thing is, I've got loads of videos of it, so it's even better, you know.

[Interviewer]

Do you watch them still?

[John]

Yeah, yeah, I do, because I hear a voice, you know, and all of that, and that's lovely. But Chicken and Don lost the legs. You know, you're limited to what you can do. So the simple things are great. Go for a nice drive, get down these lovely lanes, you know, and just right, we get to a junction. Donna would choose that. If we go left, right or over. Next junction I choose, and we just go anywhere. It's just me and her and me and the beauty of just doing nothing. It's lovely. Let's do it. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Go wherever we go.

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can I ask about her? She had diabetes.

[John]

She had diabetic. Yeah, she got diabetes when she was.

[Interviewer]

10, so type one.

[John]

Type one, yeah. And.

[Interviewer]

And she just struggled with it.

[John]

Wasn't particularly medically well looked after, you know, 30 years, 35 years ago. Diabetic care is so very different from now.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, she was 10.

[John]

She was 10 when she got it. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's really tough.

[John]

And at that age, you want to be like everyone else. You know why? I want to go out, I want to eat. You know, when you're a teenager and alcohol comes into your life and you're going out clubbing and drinking, it's like, I want to do that. Yeah, you can't, you dick. Not saying she abused herself in that way, but it's a balance, you know. Of course, education wasn't there for it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. You know who else has type 1.

[John]

Diabetes who have you? Don't let me scare you.

[Interviewer]

Don't worry, it's okay.

[John]

But you're doing all right?

[Interviewer]

Fine.

[John]

Yeah, good.

[Interviewer]

Immensely lucky, you know, because as you say, diabetes management now.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I got it four years ago. So, you know, compared to chalking on.

[John]

The back of your arm, download the app, and you're kind of a little bit further on the way.

[Interviewer]

So I've got blood sugars on my wrist.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And you're so much more aware of what's. Of everything. And I just. Honestly, it's so brutal timing of things and. But that said also, you could say, you know, if it was 100 years ago, then myself and your wife would just die within. Died within a month. So it's like, you know, it's kind of. It's all comparative, I suppose.

[John]

Absolutely. Of course, it Is I had a friend in New Zealand and they said to me that they were talking to, there's a Maori chief. And they said that in Maori culture, they said, you have 12 lives and Donna's used one of them. And part of her life was to meet me to get to the age of 46, but she needed me to be in her life to get to that point. And it's like, I'm not religious, but I have a little bit of, bit of woo woo now. I quite like it. Yeah, I like it. You know, I believe that I see her again and again. Someone said, you're going from A to B, but you've just taken a different route and you'll meet at B at another time. It's like, yeah, I like that, you know, Go the wide way around. Yeah, you know. And I, because she died in my arms and we had, they said we're going to turn life support off in about 20 minutes. I was like Dunnings and her heart's strong as an ox. So they did that and we were all in brace position, me, my parents and my mother in law and 10 minutes, 20 minutes, hour, hour and a half, backs aching, my dad needs a wee, you know. And the nurse come, yeah, everyone relax, you ain't going nowhere, you know. And she lasted 12 hours and I had the last sort of three hours I was on my own. And it was, it was the most horrendous thing, but the most beautiful, you know. And what did you tell her? Oh, everything, everything. Just. It just made my life, you know. And yeah, just, just little. We used to have little nicknames for each other and I'd say them again and whatever, but I asked her to haunt me and a friend of mine went, oh my God, what'd you do that for? She's gonna just, you know, torment you. Because that was her character. I've had some crazy things go on, big emotional days and big cracks of energy. She never met my grandfather. And I said, you'll meet me granddaddy, he'll absolutely adore you. And I said, he used to like to dance. Donna used to like to dance. And I say, you'll meet him, I know you've met him because I'll hear a crack of thunder. And on Donna's memory of my parents, parents life, that next day after Don passed, I'm in the front room and nice day and there's just this almighty crack of thunder happened. Just one massive bang rumbled on and ah, you found him. Good, you're there. And relax, you know, it's nuts, man. Some people just like that of bollocks. But you hold on to things because it eases you out, you know?

[Interviewer]

I mean, I don't think it's load of bollocks.

[John]

No good. Thank you. But it's nice. It's very comforting.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, completely. And you know, who's to say what anything is? If you feel it, you feel it.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, that's what I think.

[John]

That's what faith is, isn't it? And religion and all that. Might be people I work for Russian Orthodox and very religious. And the kids would say to me, how is it you're so nice that you don't believe in God? You know, when they were younger, good parents, you know, I know right from wrong. If you don't believe in heaven and hell, it's. And do the right thing because it's just nice, you know.

[Interviewer]

What do you think that people who haven't been through what you've been through are kind of not aware of, you know. What do you think is invisible about.

[John]

What you've been through? Utter loss. And the. They think that you can just. Come on, take a deep breath. Come on. Come. I had a guy, he was a friend. Ain't no more. Lost a lot of friends.

[Interviewer]

Really.

[John]

A hell of a lot.

[Interviewer]

Really?

[John]

Yeah. The ones I. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Because people don't know how to deal with it or they weren't your friends in the first place. You just, you know, my oldest friends have been spot on. It's the new one within the last 20 years. And it hurts because you think, oh, right, they're okay.

[Interviewer]

Is it that they just switch off? They just don't contact you, what do they do wrong?

[John]

Don't contact you. And then if you don't contact them back because you're crying, you're depressed, you don't want to pick the phone up. It's. Take it personally. I got invited out for dinner many times, but I found it difficult going out for dinner with opposite a friend and a partner and then me with an empty chair next to me, the empty chairs. Because. Oh, yeah, I'm only here because Donzo, you know, they don't get it. I've even thought about. I write a book and only have about three pages in it. The key things and someone. Don't do this, don't do this.

[Interviewer]

So what's in this book then? The three pages.

[John]

Four pages, four pages.

[Interviewer]

Even better.

[John]

Don't be a twat.

[Interviewer]

Repeatedly pages.

[John]

Don't be a twat. Don't turn it. Be a Twat.

[Interviewer]

Do you think people are just worried about saying the wrong thing? I think so, you know, but in a way, it's all wrong. I mean, it's all. It's wrong.

[John]

There's no rulebook. I'd rather have the wrong thing said.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John]

And then them learning from it. I've said the wrong thing, people. You always do. It's part of life.

[Interviewer]

Do you have things in the house that remind you. I'm guessing everything reminds you of her, but yeah. Do you keep in particular things, you know, objects.

[John]

I started to put lots of photos up. My dad went. We got quite a lot of photos up, you know, is that a good thing? That's all I got, you know, I got a beautiful picture I took of her in the Caribbean on the beach. And it's by my front door. And every time I go in and out, I kiss it and do that every time. And I walked in the other day and I took a photo of it.

[Interviewer]

Photo of the photo, photo of the photo.

[John]

Because my face was in the reflection. The sun was coming. It's beautiful. Can I show you?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I'd love to see it.

[John]

And I just. And I just made me happy. That's our first folk we've had together in ages, you know. Let me show you. Hang on, hang on. He's here somewhere. Okay. So I just came in the front door and the light's coming in and reflected and saw me.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I can see what you've done.

[John]

Yeah. Right time, you know, right place.

[Interviewer]

Beautiful.

[John]

Yeah. So the thing is, I get down the path and then I've got to go back if I don't say, love ya. So I gotta go back, rub Buddha's belly and out the door. You know, Some of it's. I've never said this, but it's quite exciting because I can blank canvas. You can do what you want.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John]

I like my cycling stuff. So I was. I was looking at a thing called a rat race yesterday from across Chile. Can't do that. The money to do it. I want to do a big ride as a fundraiser.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, obviously do it all.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I think there's so much release through action.

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I'll tell you one thing I do. I host international cyclists. They stay with me. I've read a lot of cycle touring books and. Yeah, nerd.

[Interviewer]

How many are there?

[John]

Oh, man, it's thousand. I spent 150 pound on a book the other day on Oxfam site. I might have been a little bit drunk.

[Interviewer]

One book for £150.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What was it? What was it?

[John]

1887, first edition. That's right. The first guy to circumnavigate the world on a bike. Took him four years and he did it on a penny farthing. Amazing English guy, obviously. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Classic.

[John]

But in his touring books.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John]

The general consensus is Iranian people are the nicest people in the world. They would want to know what the world thinks of their country, you know, and you knock at their door, you're a gift from their God. They've been chosen to host you. La la la. And there's this group called Warm Showers. It sounds horrendous. It's a wrong name for it. Everyone looks at me like, beg your pardon? What do you do? It's not that, but it's an American thing and 30 pound lifetime membership and people tour and they just email you. Can I stay with you on that date? Yeah, no worries. You can either give them a tent space in the garden and a hose pipe. I go full monty. It's like the greatest Airbnb ever. Beer, wine, salad starters, desserts.

[Interviewer]

Amazing.

[John]

That's great.

[Interviewer]

And then it's international cyclists.

[John]

International cyclists, yeah. Lots of Belgians, lots of Dutch and Germans.

[Interviewer]

All in the gear.

[John]

All in the gear. A lot of them are touring.

[Interviewer]

Did they ever take it off? It was gear.

[John]

Oh, man. Sometimes they stay for two or three days if they're knackered.

[Interviewer]

Amazing.

[John]

Yeah. I'm like, crack on, there's the key. I'm going to work. And it's very sweet of you. I. I had a lot of people said, yeah, what if they nick off you? Well, I don't know if this bloke's going to ride three months from Southern Portugal to steal something off my, you know, shelves. If they do, they do. Because for me, it's. It's a bit of company. It's. I have. My reviews are the best. I should be like an airplane. I've got five lads staying with me next week. Five. I haven't had five yet. And one of them's. I have to have halal food and all of that. Yeah, whatever. 17 year olds are doing a charity ride. Can we stay your house? Yeah. No. Swear. It's great. That's lovely. Such a nice thing. It's a nice thing to do. Yeah. I get so much out of it. Yeah. Warm showers. It's the worst name ever.

[Interviewer]

It's a bad day.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about. A little bit more about what's it like working for a big family? You know, you must have seen everyone grow up. And it's.

[John]

Yeah, they're my surrogate children. Three girls, three boys. Youngest is 19. You know, I had him when he was 8, 7 or 8. So every day you build a relationship. You know, they private school locally. So you're driving them to school and.

[Interviewer]

In a bit of a wagon.

[John]

Yeah, yeah. Big old car. Drop them off at three different private schools and stuff, but Three different ones, yeah. But, you know, they come up and see my parents. I got a party next month because. Delayed birthday party and they're all coming and. Yeah, I love them dearly. I speak to them every day. Even the girls are away uni or working every day. Amazing.

[Interviewer]

Well, I mean, so, you know, what are you to them? What do they. What do they.

[John]

What they called me a few years ago. They called me their gay uncle dad. 1. I'm not gay and I'm not their uncle and I'm not their dad, but that's how they name me. Yes, great.

[Interviewer]

Part of the furniture.

[John]

Yeah, totally, yeah.

[Interviewer]

What do you think of the parents of these? The children? You know, it's quite a. A rare thing to have someone come and be such a big part of these and, you know, as a kind of substitute.

[John]

They're used to it. Russians. Very, very different than us. I've got used to them. I think I've changed their outlook on stuff slightly as well.

[Interviewer]

In what way?

[John]

Not everyone's out to get you. Some people are nice because they're just nice and don't want anything. Russian mindset is they don't do small talk, they don't show emotion. If you show emotion, you're weak. If you don't drink, you're not a proper man. All of that stuff, you know. First time I met them, they had a house in Malibu, so I met them in Heathrow. So it was like the von Trapp. So kids went in different heights. There was mum, dad, I think two nannies, grandparents. And they kind of looked at me just like it's a staff. They've had staff all their life. Six kids used to have seven nannies when they lived in Moscow. Youngest had two and all armed. Different world, you know. And I'm driving out Heathrow thinking, don't get lost. Don't crash the 80 grand car. So I've got my boss man next to me, mother behind me and the oldest son next to me, and I'm talking to my employer and the boss lady behind me says, I have question. Yes, why are you ginger? Why? Why? So I went. Well, I knew my first day on the job Today, meeting you, I dyed my hair last night to make it look good and it went wrong and came out like this, straight out of the head. I thought it was hilarious to give one. I'm quite brave as well, I know. I was quite relaxed. And then the old man looked there. She went, no, no, no. I mean, you've got Irish or Scottish heritage, right? Nah, just the ginger. Okay. The gingers of Russia are quite a rare thing. So it was just. That's the first time she ever spoke to me. Why are you ginger? Yeah, over the years I've been the son of the devil because I don't believe in Christ. All sorts of stuff. I'm like, yeah, I'm like that now. Yeah, whatever, you know, that's interesting. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

They're giving you a little bit of a heart out here and there. But they always loved you.

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They've always been very, very good. And particularly I had free reign when Donna was dialysis three days a week. I swear to what you need to do, you know.

[Interviewer]

Have you ever had points of clash with them, obviously, like, you know, you're in their house, there must be some kind of moments where you didn't see it.

[John]

Youngest, he's 19. He's taller than me now. That's his biggest achievement so far.

[Interviewer]

Be taller than you?

[John]

Yeah, getting bigger. He wants to the gym. I've done quite for 35 years and he wants a fight. He's wanted to fight since he was 13, so now he's done his A level. So we're having a fight next month in the tennis court. I'm like, bring it on, teach him a lesson.

[Interviewer]

What does he think? Did it happen?

[John]

I said to him, where's this come from? Where's your skills? Oh, don't show me. Shut up. So it's like what mum and dad like? Okay.

[Interviewer]

35 years of karate's got a long time.

[John]

Yeah, yeah. Starting when I was a kid.

[Interviewer]

And what has it meant to you over the years?

[John]

Just everything, just fantastic. But then, yeah, when Don passed, I was like, ah, don't want to do this anymore. Anymore.

[Interviewer]

And now you just don't do it at all?

[John]

No.

[Interviewer]

So is that. I don't know, just intrigued by that as a, you know, do you. Does it pop into your head? Do you think about. Do you go, well, what was that? 35 years? I mean, you know, kind of. Do you regret any of it?

[John]

No, not at all. You know, first time I went to New, we had an international tournament in New York in 96. Things in Japan, things in Australia, and I wouldn't have done any of that. And the people I associate with, you know, doctors, accountants, then on my crowd, but they're still great mates, you know, You've been through forever, you know, weddings, and it's lovely they came to Don's funeral. You know, it's just like, wow, what a bunch, you know.

[Interviewer]

What are the lessons that kind of Karasi has taught you?

[John]

It's the discipline of it. No matter what it is. You could be learning an instrument. You know, everything takes time. You know, there's no shortcut. Yeah. It's commitment, dedication, and they kind of lift the fight another day thing as well. Well, but at the same time, when to react. You know what they say? Better to be judged by 12 than carried by six. You know, just gotta be smart. But it's a wonderful thing to learn.

[Interviewer]

So how many times have. Have you used karate outside of karate, physically?

[John]

Twice.

[Interviewer]

Can you tell me about those times?

[John]

Both when Donna was in A and E one time.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's intriguing.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Well, not the doctors.

[John]

Well, no, I went, can you get me something to eat, baby? I know, right? So I went to McDonald's, and there's a big bouncer dude in there. And as I got me for a camera, I thought, he ain't here. And I went out in the. In the high street, and he was separating a fight, and these blokes were pummeling into him. And I thought, that's not fair. And I had me Big Mac meal, me drinking one end. I pulled a guy off and I thought, what have you done? It's not your fight. But it wasn't. The numbers weren't fight. It was an unfair fight. So he was. So what?

[Interviewer]

We talked to what the numbers, though.

[John]

There was three guys. It was a race hate crime. The black kid was getting beaten up. So the bouncer came out to separate it, and another two guys were piling on the bouncer. Let's make it even. So I pulled him off and then come on there, you know, they turn into a English football fan. He came at me. His brother was there as well. And I just kicked him straight in the stomach like a front kick. And he just rolled up and rolled the ball and went backwards and just laid on the floor like. And then you up it. And then my language gets more aggressive and you, you know, F and Cs and all this. I have to put the food down, Tanya. They're bullies. And then they realize they can't win that one, and they're walking Backwards, giving it a bigger holy stomach. And I went over to the two lads who got beaten up. They were students from Canterbury University. And they said, we're going to go and get Knife. We're going to do him and all this. I'm like, well, come over me. De escalation walks away. Look, I said, we're doing uni. Yeah, yeah, yeah. We're studying. Only young. Thanks, man. All this, I went back to thing. Donna's like, where you been? You know, McDonald's was cold, so I got it in here. And then 10 minutes later, I went and came around the corner and those two lads got beaten up. The two blackheads, they were sitting in A and E because they had been pretty duffed up. And they were like, it's that bloke. Fucking hell, it's that bloke. Like, guardian angel. And I was like, donna, look, it did happen. She's like. But at the same time, it could have gone completely wrong.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[John]

Because one of them could have pulled out a knife. I was lucky.

[Interviewer]

Tell me about. So, one thing, I didn't touch one earlier, which I meant to ask. You talked about maybe wanting kids but not having them.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can you tell me a bit more about that, if it's not too tricky?

[John]

Yeah. No, no. Sure, yeah. It was never a thing that Donna and I thought, right, let's try for children. We kind of had the inclination that we wouldn't be able to have them then. We. We were quite young and the NHS gave us two loads of IVF for free. It was a lot of money. We were good to go with that. And then we decided to say no and give it to someone else. Yeah. We thought it wouldn't be right.

[Interviewer]

Why not?

[John]

Because she said it wouldn't be fair. I might not be here in the future, so let's give that opportunity of idea for someone else. And it was the elephant in the room that we didn't speak about for years and years and years, you know, after or before? After. We never had that conversation of, should we try for a child? Just didn't have it because, you know, that didn't need to. You know, you're kind of dragging saying up and you don't need to do it, you know, but we had so much going on that it wasn't a thing if we weren't pining for it, you know, and then maybe we were, but we never discussed it, you know. But it's the only time now since Don's got. I wish I had kids because I'd have something to put my focus on.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but can I say something?

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Obviously, it seems it's a million miles off, but, you know, there's a chance, you can see.

[John]

Yeah, no, no, absolutely.

[Interviewer]

I mean. I mean, it's obviously such a big thought, but, like, you have so much love to give.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And you already give it. And obviously that gives you so much to yourself.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That feels like you can do it.

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. No, I can even. Even like my girls at work, I said, you know, now's time. You're gonna foster.

[Interviewer]

You do it in any kind of way.

[John]

Yeah. But I'm like, no, no, I want this time for me now. And I'm. The warm showers is good. The Russian kids are always going to be there, you know, they'll have kids one day, hopefully, and I'll be great uncle Gay, Uncle Great uncle Great Uncle Gay. But it's sort of. Yeah, I. I don't feel. I want that. I almost want to be selfish and have just me. That's a freedom that I haven't had for before and it's sort of got to get used to it, you know.

[Interviewer]

Well, you've got, you know, you've got lots of time for anything to change.

[John]

If you change, you know, I'm a young 50. Yeah. I'm a young 50.

[Interviewer]

What does that mean to you, to be 50 out of interest?

[John]

Fuck.

[Interviewer]

You know, you're like, how did this happen?

[John]

Yes. Yeah, yeah. Because I. I've got a lot of momentous things I did in my life. 95. I went to Portugal for six months with me mate. I went New York first and then I went to Australia, then went back to Australia, then we moved to Cornwall, then we split up, then we got back together. Then why'd you split up? Because Dom was in Spain on a holiday and she phoned me up and she said, I love you, but don't know if I love you because you. You look after me and you give me everything. Like, that broke my heart. But I thought, wow, how brave's that? Because she needs to find out rather than just string me along. We were living together and everything, so I had a mate living in Newquay at the time, so I phoned him up, could I come down? So I stayed there six months. We got together after about three months, again got back together. She realized, yeah, I do love you and it is the right thing. I'm not doing it because, you know, you are a nice guy. I'll do it because I love you. And I thought, that's immense. And, yeah, we Got together, we moved to Cornwall for 10 years and had a lovely time there. It's the best 10 years down there. Mega.

[Interviewer]

I do get an incredible sense that she's so in you.

[John]

Oh, man. She's immense, as in her compassion, her understanding for everyone else. I used to think I'm the son of a copper, so beggars and druggies. Ah, bloody's gone back. She's like, no, no, no, that's self medicating. Do you not know what it did? And taught me so much of that kind of stuff. Stuff rather than everyone's a scumbag and a scrote. Yeah, totally solid.

[Interviewer]

I could see why, you know, you still wear the ring. You know, I mean, I can see, you know, it's kind of really clear that this was.

[John]

This was. I. I got this done when, when, when Don Park. We always said, if anything does happen, we get our wedding rings and we're melted down into one. And I went to a jeweler, just basically street down there. And I walked in there. It was about three days after Don passed, got a bit emotional and he went, take your time. You know, you could sense it. And I said to him, I've just lost my wife. And I said, I want do something with the rings. Yeah, all right, all right. Instead of the nice rings. He said I could melt him down. He said, which is a nice idea, but he said, you'll lose Donna's ring. He said, why don't I just put them together? I never even thought of that. I went, yeah, yeah, okay, do that. And I was in there talking to him and crying my eyes out and ugging. I've never met him for an hour and a half. And he emailed me that next day and he said, pick your ring up this evening. He said, won't charge her. He says, it's a gift from me to you. Just like, what the fuck? It's amazing. And that was early days. I'm thinking, yeah, this is gonna be all right. And he was like, donna sounds great. It's like, yeah, man, you know? Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You talk wonderfully about it.

[John]

Yeah, I'm very proud of it.

[Interviewer]

And you feel it so strongly. Yeah, I mean, I mean, you're doing a wonderful job of keeping her alive.

[John]

Yeah, that's the, that's the leg is your big.

[Interviewer]

Which is your big. Which is your main job.

[John]

Yeah, yeah, it is. When I went out for dinner Friday night with some friends. My friends talk about her and drop her name all the time. I don't remember who we did this with. Don. And it's like. And I text her now, I said, so lovely, you're in my wife's name. She's like, hey, I thought you'd like that. And it's like, yeah, she exists still, it's lovely. She's not gone to me, of course. It.

[Interviewer]

I mean, obviously that proximity to someone dying, has it made you think about your own mortality more? Yeah, everything.

[John]

I used to be a little bit scared of death. I don't care now, really. I want to have a long life. I mean, no rush to see death. Because she would say, what are you doing? She would be furious if I did anything stupid. And she'd be like, you had this opportunity to live and you fucked it up. And I've seen you too soon, you absolute twat. You know, so it's sort of. I'm look after myself. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What. What age do you think you'd have to be to not get a bollocking?

[John]

80.

[Interviewer]

80. You got 30.

[John]

I've got a way to go yet. And I had a dream the other day. Don was late 20s. We were in Cornwall. I knew the outfit she was wearing. She had a pair of jeans on, slip on shoes. And I woke up and I had butterflies because I'd still see a lot of poorly Donna, not of young, fit Donna. And that's the first time I'd seen her young and fit and looking good. And I look butterflies in my belly. And it was like, oh, my God, I ain't had them in years. And it was like, wow.

[Interviewer]

Having lost your wife, what would you say to anyone who is in a long term relationship and everyone is healthy, what would you say to them?

[John]

Good question. Enjoy this. It's all you've got. It's so precious, so precious. And I've lost and I know how precious it is. So it's cliched and cheesy, but it's fucking 100% truth. Don't take it too seriously. Not all money, work and that crap. It's about sitting on a bench, talking to a stranger, doing crap drawings of peers. So glad you stopped.

[Interviewer]

And I'm really glad I stopped.

[John]

You ruined my art project. No, because I thought, what's this guy? I thought, I straight away thought, oh, no, he wants to look at my book.

[Interviewer]

Fear. Someone's looking at my books, someone wants.

[John]

To look at it.

[Interviewer]

I like that. I like the idea. Now that, that sketch, you know, obviously.

[John]

It'S got significant difference.

[Interviewer]

You stopped in time.

[John]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, that's it. I might just leave it.

[Interviewer]

You look at it in the future, like, oh, yeah, that time I was halfway through that.

[John]

I'll add to it and say, oh, it was so much better. But this bloke stops me, love.

[Interviewer]

Okay, last question for you.

[John]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Either answer this in a. In a now way or a general way, or both. What are you going to do next?

[John]

Look at my watch. It's 25 past 5. I've got to be at my parents for dinner at 6 and I was going to bail out and not go because I was quite down, but I'm going to go out there and see him and have dinner. So you've picked me up and this has been very cathartic. You've improved my day massively. So thank you again.

[Interviewer]

Very kind of you to say that. And I've enjoyed talking to you.

[John]

So much pleasure. Yeah, you need keep it up.

[Interviewer]

Thank you.

[John (reading or reciting a poem/song)]

I've started drawing But I know it's not great Someone walks by and I hide it away it's for me right.

[Interviewer]

Now.

[John (reading or reciting a poem/song)]

It'S just me right now? 35 years of karate master fought real hard but now I fight faster to find me right now it's just me right now. Cause I'm the hot days when my heart breaks the sound of thunder lets me know you're there when friends tell stories I see you there when I turn 80 I'll be right there, yeah. I've started writing Gonna do a rat race in your name Put a smile on my face it's for me right now it's just me right now.