EPISODE 76: Success, Sex, and The Cause

Summary

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Strangers on a Bench

Episode 76: Success, Sex, and The Cause

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Date: February 23, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this candid and meandering conversation, Tom Rosenthal sits next to an anonymous woman painting with watercolors on a park bench, exploring her perspectives on Sundays, success, intimacy, and family. Their chat is interrupted by bystanders, including the colorful "Uncle Peter," offering a quintessential slice-of-life feel. The guest shares deeply personal stories—her evolving definition of success, the trajectory of a long-term relationship, a dramatic familial rift, her recent autism diagnosis, and major career changes—all with honesty and dry humor.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

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1. The Value of Sundays and Looseness

• Restfulness and "Setting Up Less Expectation"

  • Sundays are her favorite because they have the "least expectations" (00:50).

  "I always get the most rest on Sunday. I feel like I set myself up with the least expectations, and that feels good." (Guest, 00:55)

  • She spends Sundays in nature, embracing a day that is led "by the wind" (01:07–02:50).

• Impact of Weather on Mood

  • Lives in a climate with "always good weather," admits to being "massively" affected by gloomy weather, especially in places like London (03:17–03:29).

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2. Internal Dialogues and Relationship Conflict

• Coping with Emotional Triggers
  • She often self-talks to calm herself, especially when "the cause" (her partner) triggers strong emotions (04:13–05:13).

  "I had to decide amongst myself how to respond, how to manage the situation...and I decided to be a supportive partner and not let some bullshit get the best of me and ruin a day." (Guest, 04:50)

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3. The Story of Meeting Her Partner (“The Cause”)

• Connection Sparked by Shared Humor

  • Met in a tiny music room; both laughed silently at someone earnestly singing Leonard Cohen's "Hallelujah" (06:26–07:27, 11:26–12:18).
  • The chemistry grew from friendship, not instant romance (12:28–13:11).

• Physical Intimacy as a Catalyst

  • Their shift from friends to lovers was ignited by their first sexual encounter, which brought clarity and a deepening of romantic feelings (13:06–13:29).

  "Sex. The first time we had sex." (Guest, 13:06)

  • Regular intimacy continues to play an important part in their years-long relationship (15:23–15:48).

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4. On Labels and Identity

• Ambivalence Toward Labels
  • She resists firm labels, prefers the idea of "looseness" in identity (16:12–16:33).

  "Labels, man, they're so... tough." (Guest, 16:16)

  • Discusses the strange feeling of comparing herself to others with the same first name and the defining effect names have on identity (17:07–17:24).

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5. Success Reimagined: Breaking from Family Influence

• Evolution from Traditional to Personal Definitions

  • Once saw success through the lens of career and wealth, shaped by family/community values (17:40–18:52).
  • Shifted to seeking "a really expensive, expressive life that feels authentic" (18:42).

• The Breaking Point: Cutting Ties with Her Father (19:04–22:39)

  • Four years ago: hosted family for Christmas, her father called her a “bitch” at her own table, triggering a final rupture (20:18–21:38).
  • Mother's secrets (MS diagnosis, other family matters) come to light immediately afterward (22:14–22:39).

  "It was after the rift with my dad, like, watching her respond to that really showed me her incapability of protecting me like her child, you know." (Guest, 26:06)

• Aftermath: Complex Parental Relationships

  • Her mother stays "in the middle," adding to the guest’s feelings of abandonment and lack of protection (25:38–26:05).

  "He's a narcissist and she's brainwashed." (Guest, 26:27)

• Filling the Parental Void

  • She becomes her own "mum and dad," finding stability and unconditional support primarily in herself and her partner ("the cause") (27:05–27:18).

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6. Career Change and Redefinition

• Quitting a Prestigious Organizational Job
  • Recently quit her job, preferring a lower-paying but more authentic position (31:02–35:51).
  • Reveals she works in an organization with two assistants but finds this uncomfortable due to her age and position (30:21–33:09).

  "Quitting this job." (Guest, 35:37)

  • Describes notifying colleagues and the emotional responses (32:06–32:44).

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7. Autism Diagnosis and Self-Understanding

• Diagnosis and Emotional Impact

  • Diagnosed as autistic a year ago; hasn't shared this with most people, still processing what the label means (33:40–34:43).
  • Fears social stigma and is slowly integrating the new understanding of herself (34:13–34:49).

• Strengths and Challenges

  • Sensory sensitivities flagged by therapist led to diagnosis (34:30).
  • Sees her autism as contributing to her strong decision-making (35:20).

  "I think it makes me a great decision maker." (Guest, 35:30)

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8. Love, Sex, and Partnership

• Intimacy with the "Cause"
  • Open discussion of the role regular sexual intimacy plays in their long-term partnership (15:21–15:48, 36:00–36:16).
  • Partner is described as "everything" and "the most wonderful"—yet she acknowledges the pressure created by this closeness (27:18–27:26).

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9. Hope, Patience, and Looking Forward

• Approach to Uncertainty and the Future
  • Embraces patience and self-expression, letting go of controlling outcomes (29:21–30:01, 36:46–36:53).
  • Going to "let the paint dry, literally and figuratively" as she enters a new chapter (36:46).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

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• On weather and mood:

  "London's been tough...It's fucking tough, straight up." (Guest, 03:27)

• On the start of her relationship:

  "We laughed at the same situation...and here we are a million years later." (Guest, 07:09)

• On labels:

  "Labels, man, they're so...tough." (Guest, 16:16)

• On redefining success:

  "Success to me looks more like living a really expensive, expressive life that feels authentic." (Guest, 18:42)

• On her family rift:

  "He called me a bitch on Christmas. All kinds of fun stuff." (Guest, 20:18)

• On autonomy:

  "Nobody. Me. Small grown me, future me." (Guest, 27:05)

• On career shifts and embracing change:

  "Quitting this job." (Guest, 35:37)

• On the future:

  "I'm gonna let the paint dry. Literally and figuratively." (Guest, 36:46)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

| Segment | Timestamp | |---------------------------------------------------|------------------| | Opening/Sundays & Weather | 00:50–03:29 | | Self-Talk & Handling Conflict | 04:03–05:13 | | Meeting "The Cause" (Partner) | 06:26–07:27, 11:26–13:29 | | Sex as Relationship Catalyst | 13:06–13:29 | | On Labels and Identity | 16:12–17:24 | | Redefining Success & Family Break | 17:40–22:39 | | Aftermath & Family Secrets | 22:39–26:31 | | Support System & "Being your own parent" | 27:05–27:18 | | Career Shift / Quitting Job | 31:02–35:51 | | Autism Diagnosis | 33:40–35:30 | | Looking Forward / Approach to Future | 36:46–36:53 | | Closing exchange & summary song (by Tom) | 37:12–End |

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Tone & Style

The conversation has a warm, meandering, confessional quality—dryly funny, self-aware, with a thread of bittersweetness and vulnerability. The guest is candid, sometimes irreverent, showing willingness to explore personal pain with wit and perspective. Tom's gentle questions allow space for reflection, and by the end, the "bench" becomes a symbol of quiet transformation.

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For Listeners

This episode is a kaleidoscopic view of a stranger’s life, chronicling the search for authenticity, the messy and often funny chaos of relationships, the struggle to escape old scripts, and the sometimes-painful freedom of forging a new path. Whether you're interested in love, family dynamics, self-discovery, or simply enjoy genuine conversation, this episode resonates thanks to its openness, intimacy, and humanity.

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Transcript

[A]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially, I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. Do you have a favorite day of the week?

[B]

Off the top, I'm gonna say Sunday.

[A]

Why?

[B]

I always get the most rest on Sunday. I feel like I set myself up with the least expectations, and that feels good.

[A]

What do you expect of other days in your life?

[B]

Oh, you know, pressures of productivity and getting certain things done. But Sundays, I usually just let the wind blow and tell me what I'm gonna get up to. You know, there's a looseness to it. That feels really good.

[A]

I like that. You know what? I really like your painting.

[B]

Oh, I'm so glad.

[A]

It's really nice.

[B]

That's really sweet. I don't. But that's all right.

[A]

Watercolors, I think, are great.

[B]

You know, I've never done it before.

[A]

What? Never?

[B]

Except for, like, last week, for the first time.

[A]

What made you start?

[B]

I've always enjoyed oil painting, and I've been traveling this summer, and watercolor is something that's easy to travel with. Oil won't dry for months. Watercolor dries in a few minutes.

[A]

I like that. Let's take one of these sundaes, then. What, for you, represents, like, an ideal sundae? Lives in the world.

[B]

I. I'm very lucky to live in good weather.

[A]

What do you mean, good weather?

[B]

I live somewhere with a climate that's almost always good.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How exciting. You don't live currently where we're sat?

[B]

No, I clearly don't. Right, well, you might. I definitely wouldn't consider it myself, but I typically spend a lot of time in nature on Sundays, and sometimes that's with exercise and movement, and sometimes it's plainly not.

[A]

So you're waking up on this Sunday, and how quickly are you getting out into nature?

[B]

Almost immediately.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. Seriously?

[A]

Within minutes?

[B]

Yeah. Like, while having coffee.

[A]

So that means you can, like, get out your front door and just go straight into nature?

[B]

It pretty much does.

[A]

So you live in the. Like, a wilderness?

[B]

No, no, just have a lovely porch,

[A]

you know, and it's obviously the good weather. We've established there's always good weather where you live. Does it depress you when there's not

[B]

good weather, or is that massively?

[A]

Really massively, Massively.

[B]

London's been tough. Am I doxing you or are you doxxing me?

[A]

It must Be really tough.

[B]

It's fucking tough. Straight up.

[A]

Okay, so let's. How different is this Sunday? If it's bad weather, unappealing weather, just instant sadness for me.

[B]

God, maybe. I mean, I'll spend an hour, like, telling myself that's not gonna be the case, but will it? Maybe.

[A]

Do you talk to yourself quite a lot? Do you tell yourself things?

[B]

I mean, I'd like to think we all do.

[A]

When was the last time you really had to give yourself talking to?

[B]

Like, always? Right.

[A]

Ship up, ship up, shape up.

[B]

Well, I wouldn't always say it's a pep talk, but, yeah, there's a lot of chatter.

[A]

So you can't think of the last pep talk?

[B]

Probably this morning.

[A]

Oh, that's quite recently.

[B]

Really?

[A]

Yeah, quite recently. Can you take me through roughly how that went between you and you?

[B]

I was in a difficult situation.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Someone else was the cause. So it feels of some strong emotions. Right.

[A]

So someone was a cause of something and you and you had a chat.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

Not you and the cause. So you ignored the cause, the cause did something to you.

[B]

The cause was presenting challenge, and I had to decide amongst myself how to respond, how to manage the situation.

[A]

And have you decided?

[B]

I did, yes.

[A]

Oh, can you. Can you reveal? What did you do?

[B]

I buckled up, man. And I decided to be a supportive partner and not let some bullshit get the best of me and ruin a day. Just letting it slide and cutting someone slack when they were struggling and being vague. But I think anyone in a relationship gets the vibe.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, the funny thing is with being vague is. Sometimes being vague is the most revealing thing. You know, I kind of know exactly what you're talking about.

[B]

Who doesn't? Right.

[A]

You know, I quite like it. Got in the cause.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

New nickname for the partner. There's an Irish pop band called the Cause. Really spelled C O R S, though.

[B]

That's really funny. I sound like a new fan. For sure.

[A]

Yeah. I mean, what is it like having a partner?

[B]

Oh, it's lovely, actually.

[A]

It's got its pros.

[B]

I mean, it's such a curious thing, and I think it's changed so much throughout, you know, as years go by, like, what role that plays in my life.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

Just having grown up within a relationship.

[A]

How many years in are we?

[B]

I think seven or eight.

[A]

It's quite a few.

[B]

It's a lot. Depends who you ask. But it feels that way to me.

[A]

I mean, comparative to how many years you've been alive, it is quite a lot. Probably.

[B]

It's a lot of them.

[A]

Totally what was your first kind of moment of connection? Do you remember that moment?

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Can you tell me?

[B]

Yeah. We were strangers, as we're all strangers before we meet. Right, naturally. But we were in a small, small room.

[A]

How small is this room?

[B]

Yeah, a really tiny little room.

[A]

Why?

[B]

It was like a music room. So there's an instrument and it's intended to be quiet so you can, like practice an instrument. And then this girl starts, like playing the piano and singing in this little room. And he and I just looked at each other and as it happened, had this same reaction to this happening.

[A]

I like that.

[B]

In short, we laughed at the same situation. We both found a strange situation to be funny and established that through eye contact. And neither of us are friends with her, but, you know, here we are a million years later, so it's a really good story.

[A]

I like that. Did you. I'm just now keen to know this person singing. She did it that unsolicited. She just went down and then.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

No, she was very serious.

[A]

I'm guessing she's really banging it out.

[C]

Let Uncle Peter have a look.

[B]

Oh, Uncle Peter. It's. But we're having a good time, right?

[C]

You're so beautiful. You should.

[B]

Oh, thank you.

[C]

No, that's good days. Can you imagine that? All green fields of cows in the fields going.

[B]

Yeah, cows, yeah.

[C]

Farmland all the way down to some.

[B]

Oh, seriously?

[C]

Of course it was.

[B]

God, that's wild.

[A]

And before that it was just woodlands, probably.

[B]

Wow. Wow.

[C]

Sort of got built up in the 1820s.

[B]

1840s, 1820s.

[A]

Look at it now.

[C]

London ended here in about 1900 and then it's carried on now to Watford.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

I mean, when was it? My mum's sister, 1890. She was born. My mum was born 1909, but she remembers playing out that way. Boulders green on the builders trucks when they were building on the farmland out there.

[A]

Really amazing. Yeah. Oh, fantastic.

[C]

See that white tower was sticking up?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Up from King's Cross, around about there, they written where Boadicea and the Romans had the big battle. Can you imagine them all that? Clear that out of your mind?

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Imagine the Romans kicking up the dust with the ancient Britain's going across that way.

[B]

That's crazy.

[C]

Across up to there. You can imagine it.

[A]

Can't you imagine someone watching it from here?

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

Incredible. Thank you for this history lesson.

[C]

I know. Is she American or Irish?

[B]

He doesn't know.

[A]

Who knows?

[C]

She's got an accent.

[A]

Maybe she's pretty.

[B]

You have an accent. Just kidding.

[A]

We've all got an accent.

[B]

I Am from America.

[C]

Yeah.

[B]

What about somewhere sunny?

[C]

California.

[D]

Yeah.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

You ain't got much of a sun.

[B]

No, no, I try not to.

[C]

What's your.

[B]

I'm Italian. Italian, Exactly. Very good. They're Celts, so they say. But there's lots of.

[C]

No, you not Italian. You're not. You're not Latin. Italian. No way.

[B]

Oh, you'll love this. My father's Sicilian. I don't know. Make that make sense. It just is, you know.

[C]

There's no way. Yeah. Look at the freckles on your arms as well.

[B]

Yep.

[C]

Look at him looking at your coloring. His ancestors come from Northern Italy. No way.

[B]

Whatever you want.

[C]

I'll tell you what she should do.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Get her dad or a spit in the tube. No, thanks.

[C]

Get your dad or brother.

[B]

I don't have a brother.

[C]

Or all your dad or a male cousin.

[B]

Yeah.

[C]

Get him to do the DNA and they tell you what part of Europe you. Come on. I'll have a thousand pounds of one. It's not Italy.

[B]

Wait, why? The men. What about the women's DNA?

[C]

The men. The man, hands down, the white chromosomes are at son. The women one changes because. Because my DNA, I thought was English. Did the DNA, they come back. I was Scandinavian. Oh, what, because the Scandinavian Vikings came to this country?

[A]

Classic.

[B]

We'll find out.

[C]

Phone Uncle Peter. That's me. And let me know what happened.

[A]

Thanks, Uncle Peter. Thanks for stopping by. Have a lovely evening out there. You've really been told there by Uncle Peter.

[B]

Very popular on the bench today.

[A]

Crikey. Who's gonna be the next God?

[B]

We'll find out. Presumably my boyfriend at some point, but we'll see.

[A]

Come and rescue me, boyfriend from this absolute nightmare.

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

I'm trying to do a bloody picture. What do we. What were we just saying before he arrived? It's a whirlwind.

[B]

God, I have no. No idea.

[A]

I know. I was about to ask about the woman. The woman who elicited the look between you and your now partner because of her performance on the piano and shit.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I think I was going to ask. Did she like. Absolutely, absolutely. Just sit down and, like, belt it out.

[B]

Yes. Imagine like Maximum Weird.

[A]

Did she do, like, trills and stuff? Ad libs.

[B]

I can remember the song.

[A]

Oh, go on.

[B]

It was that Hallelujah song. You know, the one that's in Shrek.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. The Leonard Cohen one.

[B]

Yes, yes, thank you. Like, as serious as possibly.

[A]

Imagine we should do that a lot.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

And was she wanting you to, like, both join in, like.

[B]

I had no idea. I was not ready to.

[A]

I mean, you were too busy also just, you know, giving the eyes to the eye. You were like, falling in love. I'm not singing to this. I'm giving the eyes to.

[B]

To the cause. To the cause, Yeah, I was.

[A]

From the eyes onwards. Was it a smooth transition into, like, whatever comes after the eyes.

[B]

Oh, that's all him from there. What do you mean, it was easy for me?

[A]

What do you mean it was easy for you?

[B]

I didn't help.

[A]

So hang on, if I'm reading this right, he just basically just pursued you? He pursued you and you just didn't say no or like, you were just, like.

[B]

He made it known he was interested and over time, you know, we became friends.

[A]

Okay, so it wasn't an instant. No, instant hit.

[B]

Okay, well, he says it was. And I'm like, I don't know. Wasn't it?

[A]

You were a bit reticent initially.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What curved you back round to or what unleashed the beast of love?

[B]

Sex. The first time we had sex.

[A]

Sex.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What do you mean?

[B]

Like, we became good friends and then one time, actually, like over a year later, even had sex. I was like, well, that went well. And I became quite interested and then we kind of just.

[A]

That's quite intriguing.

[B]

Fell straight in love. Yeah.

[A]

That's quite interesting. So before then, you didn't really have a particular inkling. It needed the, like, physical to kind of, you know what?

[B]

I was just really distracted at the time. There was just a lot going on. I was quite young, studying. I was a student at the time. We were students at the time. And there was just so much uncertainty in my life and I wasn't really looking to get into something serious at the time, hence the impromptu sex with a friend. And then we kind of, unfortunately, fortunately, fell very much in love. And then it just became serious.

[A]

Unfortunately, fortunately, we'll be the first single by the cause, I reckon.

[B]

Exactly. You know, exactly. That is exactly what I'm saying.

[A]

Can you. I mean, without kind of being too pressing about the details of this, you know, how surprising was it as in. Was it. Did it come out of nowhere?

[B]

We went out for dinner. I didn't think it was a date. Apparently he did.

[A]

Okay.

[B]

And at the end of the night, he made a move on me and I was like, what?

[A]

In the restaurant afterwards? Okay. Outside the restaurant?

[B]

No, he dropped me off at home and. And it was.

[A]

And wanted to come in?

[B]

Yeah, he wanted to come in. And I was like, why would you come in? That's not something that's ever happened. So I'm like, what the fuck is that? And then, you know, he didn't come in because I told him to fuck off, basically. And then the next day, I don't know, I. I sat on it, I thought about it, and I was like, well, we're both here and bored over the summer. Like, what's the worst that could happen?

[A]

And so it was. The next day was the famous sesh.

[B]

Next day was the famous sesh, the first of many and a lifetime of them. So.

[A]

Wow. A lifetime of them. I mean, that's a bold call.

[B]

It's been a lifetime. It's been a long time.

[A]

You still have regular sex now?

[B]

Absolutely.

[A]

Fantastic. A lot of couples don't, really. Do you think all couples have regular sex?

[B]

Well, I think regular is something that every couple is allowed to use, as they will. So you define the pace. I don't care if that means once a month to you or once a week or once a day, but.

[A]

But, yeah, the regularity is important.

[B]

Yeah. Just like it's something we do, you know, It's a practice that's ongoing. Whatever that looks like.

[A]

You're a painter. You're actually a painter. Maybe you are.

[B]

Labels, man, they're so.

[A]

They are annoying.

[B]

Aren't they tough? Yeah.

[A]

You're painting now. That means you're a painter, at least for today.

[B]

Yeah, I paint sometimes, you know, that's my relationship with him.

[A]

What do you think your life would be like if labels.

[B]

Happier.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Looser, you know?

[A]

Yeah, it would.

[B]

I know that.

[A]

Wouldn't that be fun? But then what would people talk about at parties, at least initially?

[B]

Yeah, no, I know what you mean by that.

[A]

But then it's all, where do we stop? Do we take names away? Are you finding it liberating, the fact that I don't know your name and you don't know mine?

[B]

I don't know that if I gave you my first name, I'd feel all too differently about that. You know what I mean? I don't think it tells you enough that.

[A]

Yeah, no, that's fair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How do you feel about. When you meet someone with the first name, the same first name, do you kind of instinctively not like them?

[B]

It makes me feel comparative.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know that. It's totally from an ego place where I'm like, there can only be one of us. But it makes me wonder. Well, we're alike in this fundamental way. Like, I do feel that my name has shaped my identity. And so I actually think about this a lot.

[A]

Do you? What Your name.

[B]

I think about the degree to which my name has defined my identity.

[A]

Is it quite an unusual name?

[B]

No.

[A]

Oh, okay.

[B]

Others could have it.

[A]

You say that you become comparative. Like what else gets you comparative?

[B]

I suppose. Questions and conversations around success.

[A]

How are you feeling about your own success currently?

[B]

Well, I've just really managed over the last handful of years, I think to revolutionize how I define it.

[A]

So you've revolutionized how you've gone about thinking about it, defining it. Okay. Within what has it gone from what to what? So can you take me pre revolution?

[B]

You know, I didn't used to do things like paint on benches or talk to strangers. I used to. To I think have a far more rigid view of the world and kind of my purpose within it. And it was far more tied to accumulating personal wealth, achieving success from a career standpoint. And in a way that was pretty narrowly defined. I think that's changed a lot. And I really think success to me looks more like living a really expensive, expressive life that feels authentic rather than tied to some ideas that were probably put in my head by my parents and community growing up, you know?

[A]

Yeah, that's a really good answer.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I'm intrigued about the kind of. Feels like a kind of story that has a moment that shifted things, eh?

[B]

Yeah. I'm gonna stop talking to my dad.

[A]

Okay. Ding, ding, ding. She stopped talking to the day.

[B]

It's a big one, you know. Yeah. It cut off my source of values because they were quite oppressive and didn't really leave room for me to have my own.

[A]

Interesting.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Okay, so how long ago was that?

[B]

Four years.

[A]

And was it a kind of sudden decision or were you building up to.

[B]

I think I built up for it for the last decade, but I didn't really recognize that until you did it.

[A]

Yeah. Was there a moment that made you kind of snap?

[B]

Yeah. Can you tell me about was Christmas. I hosted my family. It was the first time I'd ever done that cuz I was pretty young, spent so much effort, not to mention the money and time when I didn't have a lot of any of those things to offer and trying to be really accommodating but I felt very scorned by some behavior and some words that were had in my direction

[A]

at this event.

[B]

Yeah, he called me a bitch on Christmas. All kinds of fun stuff.

[C]

Why?

[A]

Why did he do that? I mean, what was it?

[B]

God, I. I don't even remember what this. The straw that brought that one on was. It wasn't clear to me at the time, like, exactly what he was spinning out over.

[A]

Was it like a kind of drunken thing or not?

[B]

No, no, no, he doesn't. Totally very righteous about that.

[A]

Oh, wow. He just said, what? You're a bitch.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And just to paint a bit of a picture here, it's in your house.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Who else is round the table? Is it just, like.

[B]

Just my immediate family. So one sibling and my mother.

[A]

And so the four of you.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

It's a situation you've had hundreds of hundreds of times in the past. Yeah, but this time was different.

[B]

I mean, it wasn't.

[A]

It was just a point, I suppose. Yeah. It wasn't different.

[B]

Right. It's just like. I think, actually I have enough perspective in my life. I have enough safety in my life. I know I will be just fine if I choose not to go on accepting this. And so I retreated for the night. He ultimately did the same within the room in my house that he was sleeping in. And the next morning, I woke up and he wasn't there.

[A]

So he abruptly left.

[B]

Yes. Then, you know, I had some time with my mom. And then my mom started to tell me secrets that had been withheld from me about him. About her either. Like her house.

[A]

Oh, really?

[B]

Yeah. No, actually, yeah. Yeah. This is the craziest.

[A]

Why is she suddenly telling you this now?

[B]

I think maybe she knows me well enough to have sensed the real rift. It's almost like she could feel that I wasn't gonna do this anymore, even though I hadn't vocalized it.

[A]

And so she thought, I'm just gonna tell you lots of other stuff.

[B]

Yeah, I think that's exactly what I'm doing.

[A]

Let's pile a few more things on.

[B]

I think that's exactly what I. While we're in the zone, she's a hairdresser. She was cutting my hair, and all of a sudden she was like, I have Ms. I was like, what? Wait a minute. I was like, how long have you known that? She was like, since I was 30. And I was like, but I'm about to be 30. Why didn't you tell me that?

[A]

Wow.

[B]

And so, you know. Yeah. That. That was a nail in.

[A]

It's a big. It's a big Christmas experience.

[B]

Dude, this is wild Christmas.

[A]

That's the spirit of the season right there.

[B]

I don't know what strangers usually tell you on benches. I don't know if this is a normal.

[A]

Well, they tell me everything, but in different ways, you know?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So Mother tells you about her health.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She says anything about your father as well, or not.

[B]

Yeah. She says he's the reason why she didn't tell me. And it was at his insistence, which. That's fucking bullshit to some extent, because you can do whatever you want, you know?

[A]

And then did you have to kind of decisively say something to your father or do you just not contact him again?

[B]

I did. I didn't really want to, but after he'd reached out to me about nothing, like the weather, the news a few times, I wasn't responding and then ultimately sent some sort of a longer message about how I needed just some time to kind of, like, live in my own head and just. I needed some space.

[A]

And he said

[B]

he responded about a week later, after my mom told me, consulting with a new therapist about how to respond. And the text I got back to, like, clearly was not drafted by him, you know?

[A]

Oh, really? Yeah.

[B]

Drafted by Mother or the therapist's guidance about how he should handle that.

[A]

Well, the therapist drafted the text.

[B]

I mean, I think he asked for some guidance, some help.

[A]

He passed it, the phone number.

[B]

Imagine him passing the phone over, being like, what do you think I should do?

[A]

I wonder how many therapists it's done that.

[B]

Yeah. As do I. I don't know. It was a weird.

[A]

How long was it?

[B]

Longer, but nothing impressive. No.

[A]

Were you hoping for a greater length?

[B]

I wasn't hoping for shit. I was hoping he wouldn't respond. I was like, just like, leave me alone, you know?

[A]

And I guess you mean you just didn't respond to that particular one.

[B]

No, I didn't respond to that, no, no, no.

[A]

And that was four years ago?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And since then, who does what? When, how did he send birthday messages? Did he bother, like, what's the vibe?

[B]

He pretends often that that just never happened.

[A]

Which is the whole incident.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. Just all of it. My need for space, Like, I've had to re up the request for sure.

[A]

So this moment. So this was a kind of a bit of a reset for your whole being?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And where does your mother sit in all this?

[B]

She likes to describe herself as in the middle. You can imagine how I feel about that one. Not great, but. Yeah, you know.

[A]

But you were keeping mum. Are we. We're not getting rid of Mum.

[B]

No.

[A]

But she's still with your father.

[B]

He's around, but she's with him.

[A]

Yeah. Do you feel a bit abandoned by her?

[B]

Of course I do, massively.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Always have. Just didn't quite have the knowledge or the understanding to quite articulate that. It was after the rift with my dad, like, Watching her respond to that really showed me her incapability of protecting me like her child, you know.

[A]

So kind of a curious choice. Can you figure it out?

[B]

I mean, yeah, he's a narcissist and she's brainwashed, like, you know.

[A]

Yeah. Have you told her that?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

What'd she say?

[B]

Oh, you're right.

[A]

You're right. That's kind of more annoying, is it, to be told you're right than nothing?

[B]

Of course it is. I don't want to be right, you know, redefining success. I used to want to be right. Now I don't care. I just want some peace.

[A]

Yeah. So who's filled the role then? Who's the new mum and dad?

[B]

Nobody. Me.

[A]

You, you mean me?

[B]

Sure. Small grown me, future me. Absolutely.

[A]

And then the. And then the partner, the cause.

[B]

And he's everything, you know, he's the most wonderful. Yeah.

[A]

A lot of pressure for him.

[B]

Yeah, of course. Right.

[A]

Because he's got to play all the roles.

[B]

He's got to play a lot of roles.

[A]

He's an actor. No, well, actually, let's do this.

[B]

Actually, I think he's called me.

[A]

Oh, no.

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

I can. I can pause it if you need to call him. How many rings do you normally take to pick up?

[B]

Well, this is FaceTime audio, so everything's different, you know.

[A]

Can I just slightly praise this tiny bit of praise for you? How do you feel about praise?

[B]

Horrible.

[A]

Really? Do you. You really don't like it?

[B]

I'll take a compliment, really.

[A]

Can't you really? Why not? I haven't even given to you and you're like, no, I know.

[B]

I'm like, put it back for it wherever it comes.

[A]

Put it straight back in the box.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

There's something about your sense of timing that I really like. I don't know what it is.

[B]

Hi, loves, how are you?

[A]

Hi, Tony. Tom. Oh, you. This is a little interview. We're doing it.

[D]

Nice.

[A]

I've heard all about you.

[B]

Have you?

[A]

You've come across very well.

[B]

Just a bit. Yeah. Thank you. The best. How's your day going?

[A]

Good.

[B]

Enjoying it.

[A]

Beautiful.

[B]

Beautiful place. Do you live around here?

[A]

Yeah, I do. I do this kind of everywhere, but I don't live locally. Been up and down the country doing this. Cool.

[B]

Oh, that's really. That's really dope.

[A]

Yeah, it's quite fun.

[B]

Can I have anything further from me?

[A]

Yeah, it's really annoying. We can have five more minutes with her. Just round off what we've done. A few more questions. Sorry. Then I'll leave you two alone.

[B]

It's all right.

[A]

He's very sweet.

[B]

Yeah, he's extremely sweet.

[A]

Lovely face.

[B]

I know. He's so pretty.

[A]

Yeah. Well done.

[D]

Thank you.

[A]

Good job. And he's off now. Funny. If you just like continue walking. Yeah. Okay. When the five minutes go left, let's just get to the gritty everything.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

What's a logical extension of this realization that you want a kind of a life of self expression rather than a life of financial glory?

[B]

Oh, just with the sense of like, patience. Just an openness to moving in a way that feels right rather than being married to some sort of an outcome. Being a bit more open to my own intuition and making choices that come from within, you know? Yeah. So it's more of like a we'll see. And then I'm sure it'll all change again. And it'll all change again.

[A]

I'm really fascinated by. We haven't touched on it at all, really, in talking, but just trying. I can't really imagine you in any particular workplace. Cool. I'm just trying to think of, like, I'm just really trying to picture it. I can't see it. I can't see you operating a printer. I don't think you've touched a printer.

[B]

That's not true. But I like that take.

[A]

You have Dutch printer.

[B]

Yeah. I mean, as a girl, like, I was like doing a printer, you know?

[A]

But no, as you're like an adult

[B]

printer, I skipped that stage, to be honest. People are printing stuff for me.

[A]

Whoa. You've got assistants.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

How many assistants do you have?

[C]

2.

[A]

2.

[B]

But like within my organization, maybe.

[A]

Okay, so you have an organized. You work for an organization?

[B]

Yes.

[A]

How does this play into the whole like, I'm not a dominant financial beast line of yours.

[B]

Quit my job on Monday.

[A]

Oh, my God. Oh, my God. Maybe this is a bit more London.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Oh, my God. So this is all a bit more recent than we thought.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Create your job on Monday. Now, what's the day today? Friday?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Did you tell the assistants first?

[B]

No.

[A]

Tell the boss?

[B]

Kinda.

[A]

Yeah. How do you do that? Email?

[B]

Phone.

[A]

Phone, of course. The old telephone.

[B]

The old telephone, absolutely.

[A]

You picked it up. Dar the number?

[B]

Yes, please.

[A]

You're like, boss.

[B]

I was like, hey, I've taken another job. And that's true too.

[A]

It's been an honour of a lifetime to spend time with you.

[B]

Thank you for all the opportunities.

[A]

Thanks for the music.

[B]

The mentorship.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

David, come on. He hasn't done enough mentorship. John. Is it really John? So Close. Anything surprising said by John in response to you, like, anything come out? You know, sometimes when people are shocked, they're like, I never liked you. Or, you know, think about this.

[B]

Okay. When I called Jeff, who I've spent hours on the phone with every week for the last five years, it was a 60 second phone call.

[A]

And I don't know, but you know, why?

[B]

Tell me why. I mean, I have my theories.

[A]

You meant a lot to Jeff. He couldn't deal with it. He couldn't deal with it in the moment. He couldn't deal with it.

[B]

I'm trying to tell myself that too. Cause I'm like, oh, definitely. Don't insult me.

[A]

You know, Jeff couldn't handle the fact that you left him.

[B]

I think he shut down a little bit, and I feel bad about that for him.

[A]

Can we not still call Jeff?

[B]

No, no, we will. But, you know, that was a strange one, for sure.

[A]

What about the assistants? What happened to them?

[B]

Well, they don't know yet. They don't know yet.

[A]

Oh. What? But they were keeping up.

[B]

This is my notice period.

[A]

Oh, I see.

[B]

And so they'll know next week.

[A]

What's it like having two assistants? Does it make you feel kind of like a special person?

[B]

God, no. It makes me horribly uncomfortable because I'm younger than they are.

[A]

What?

[B]

Yes. And they're so kind and they're so awesome. And it is really a strange thing to have people in an assistant position.

[A]

What do you think people don't know about you from, like, interpersonally? You just keep. You just don't bother getting out? Yeah.

[B]

I found out I'm autistic, like a year ago. Most people in my life don't know that.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Why?

[B]

I just haven't managed to totally integrate that identity. I don't feel like I have the answers to the questions. I have learned it can arouse in people. I'm sort of taking my time to generate my own understanding of it before I expose that part about myself. Maybe stigma.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And misunderstanding for sure. Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I don't know what to do with it.

[A]

So why did you do it in the first place?

[B]

As a recommendation from my therapist.

[A]

Yeah. Do you wish your therapist didn't? Sometimes it's a bit of a burden.

[B]

Sometimes. Yeah. But I think I have, like, pretty intense sensory sensitivities and there was sort of an obviousness to her about that.

[A]

When you got the diagnosis, what was the first reaction?

[B]

Fear.

[A]

Really?

[B]

Yeah. I don't know what to do.

[A]

What are you scared of?

[B]

Just, like, what does that mean? About me. How will this affect my life? Yeah, just a fear of the unknown, you know?

[A]

Yeah. How are you with the fear of the unknown?

[B]

Hesitant. I'm not a risk averse person, but I like to make calculated risks when I can, you know?

[A]

Has anyone said that autism is a superpower to you? Do you believe in that concept?

[B]

I think it's gotten me places that ironically, had people known I was autistic, they wouldn't have let me get interesting. Yeah. I think it makes me a great decision maker.

[A]

Yeah. What do you think has been your best decision? Is that a big question?

[B]

Quitting this job.

[A]

I like it.

[B]

Truly.

[A]

And this new job, I hope if it. If it all adds up, it should be less money, pay cut, good fat. Here we go. Good. There we go. Well done. This is. This is.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

She's talking the talk. She's walking the wall.

[B]

Yep. Big old pay cut.

[A]

Nice. What does the course think about the decision?

[B]

Oh, my God, he's so, so excited.

[A]

Really? Because he gets more of you.

[B]

I mean, there'll be more of me left at the end of the day, you know, he's into that for sure. We'll have more sex to come full circle.

[A]

He's walking back up the hill now.

[B]

Oh, he's so cute. Look how far he went. I hope he's not upset.

[A]

His thinking was, I'm going to walk down the hill, I'm going to walk back up the hill. And they better be.

[B]

And that'll be five damn minutes.

[A]

That'd be better be fucking. He's got the phone out again. But who's that fucking guy come to sit next to my girlfriend?

[D]

I know, I know.

[A]

Where's he gone? I feel like he's gone now. I'll ask you the last question and then when he comes with the stops, what is it? Okay, well, it's like, what are you gonna do next?

[B]

I'm gonna let the paint dry. Literally and figuratively. Yeah.

[A]

That's such a you answer. That was so you.

[B]

Okay.

[A]

How have you found this experience of talking to someone on the bench?

[B]

Horribly awkward. But mostly because it's just. I'm like, what's coming out of my mouth?

[A]

Oh, really? Good stuff, I think.

[B]

I'm glad to hear it.

[A]

I've enjoyed it.

[B]

Thank you.

[A]

I do like your kind of style. It's quite intriguing. You know, I call it. I call it an inviting challenge. That's how I describe you.

[B]

All right.

[A]

Thank you so much for talking to me.

[B]

Oh, of course.

[D]

Learning to be patient. Waiting for the pain to dry. We'll pretend it's Sunday we don't need have to try. It's not in the numbers on pages that trap us in cages we think we can leave it's not in the people who scorn us Then warn us that's all that we're destined to be but it might be in the morning light Peeking through the trees. Sit here for a moment Let the paint dry. We don't have to try.