← Strangers on a Bench
Strangers on a Bench
EPISODE 77: I See Dead People
00:57:28
Tom Rosenthal talks to strangers on park benches, often leading to surprising revelations.
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Transcript173 lines
- [00:04]
Claire
Hello. Sorry to bother you.
- [00:07]
Interviewer
Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. Do you have a favorite day of the week?
- [00:52]
Claire
Probably Friday. Because Fridays I don't work and I don't tend to plan to do anything on a Friday evening other than have a cheat meal and watch a film or something, just chill on the sofa. It's my day to just do nothing, a little treat for myself.
- [01:15]
Interviewer
Take me through as much detail as you possibly can. Your kind of ideal Friday. I mean, we know about the evening now, the cheat meal and the chill time. What is a cheat meal? What is a cheat meal?
- [01:25]
Claire
A cheat meal is eating food that you wouldn't normally eat.
- [01:28]
Interviewer
Oh, do you say cheat or cheat?
- [01:29]
Claire
Cheat. Cheater. Yeah. So, you know, like, I don't generally eat carbs and processed food and things like that, but then on a Friday, I might have fish and chips or
- [01:40]
Interviewer
something and a packet of Pringles.
- [01:44]
Claire
I don't cheat that far. The stuff they put in the unnameable crisps is really quite bad. Really bad. So a day? A Friday day? Yeah, Friday.
- [01:55]
Interviewer
Let's go. You know, when are we waking up? What can you see when you wake up?
- [02:00]
Claire
Well, I mean, I'm quite lucky because outside my bedroom window there's some trees, some mad squirrels, even a woodpecker once. So on a Friday morning, I wake up, get up, go to the gym. And then after that, a perfect Friday for me would be when it was really sunny, no clouds in the sky, blue days. And then I would come in here to sunbathe. And I love being in nature and I love the sun, so I can lie in the sun for hours, you know, and there are parts of this that are quite quiet and secluded. And my job is talking to people. So ideally, on a Friday, I won't talk to anybody if I can help it, and I'll just spend the day on my own and the evening on my own, and then I'll probably socialize over the weekend, and then it's back to work on Monday. So Friday is my real no talking, just relaxing day.
- [03:22]
Interviewer
What's it like to sunbathe around the dead? We won't name the exact place we are now, but we are in a cemetery.
- [03:29]
Claire
Yes, it is a cemetery. It's also a park. And ever since I was a kid, I've had fascination with cemeteries. I was a Big fan of the Addams Family and that kind of more eccentric type of life. And for me, cemeteries generally are quite peaceful places, not just because they're full of dead people, but because when people visit cemeteries, they tend to be more respectful, quieter. And I have a kind of spiritual practice and my spiritual belief that, you know, the dead don't hang around the graves, they just don't. Graves are what the living do to feel some kind of connection with the people who have passed into spirit. There's nothing wrong with that. I mean, if you go to a graveside to connect with the spirit of somebody that's passed, that spirit will come to the grave because it knows you're there and it knows you're there because you want to talk to it. But the minute you leave, they're not just going to sit by the grave, you know, they got better things to do. Invariably, if it's somebody you're close to in the spirit world, they're around you anyway. So when you leave the grave and go home, they just follow you home, you know, not in a weird way, but just in a kind of supportive way. Yeah. So people have this kind of real weird notion about cemeteries, but actually, for me, it's a very peaceful place. But I'm also a big fan of honouring the dead, but more in a celebratory way.
- [05:12]
Interviewer
Who do you seek to honour most frequently of the dead?
- [05:18]
Claire
So I work as a psychotherapist and I had the same supervisor for 22 years from when I did my training right through all my practice, and sadly, she died of cancer last year. And they did a big kind of memorial for her, honoring all the things that she'd done. She was so full of life and she did so many things. She made films and she wrote poetry and she started women's groups and she played the band. She was just an incredible person. And people sang and people made music from the various groups she was in. They even set the place up like her living room. And then people would go and talk. So that. I love that kind of celebrating who people are. I'm really not a big thing of the. Everyone wearing black and crying. It's like it's not going to bring them back. You know what I mean? Focus on the positive. Remember them for what they brought your life. Remember them for what they did for your life and celebrate that. Yeah.
- [06:24]
Interviewer
Do you feel like, in a sense, whereas your tissue feels like a kind of a moment of closure almost, this is like a moment. It sounds like what you're describing there is a kind of springboard where you kind of fly forward with something rather than go, that person's in the ground now.
- [06:38]
Claire
Totally, totally. And this event that I went to at the beginning of the year was, like, that there was a book for people to put their email addresses in and for people to connect with each other. Because, like I say, she in particular, had so many different aspects to her life. And this day, all those people were in the room, and there was this thing of, like, get to know these people because these are other creative people. And she would have loved that. She would have loved bringing people together to go forward. You know, I mean, I really love that idea as well, that you can be buried underneath a tree.
- [07:11]
Interviewer
Yes.
- [07:11]
Claire
And it's like the tree takes the nutrients from your body to grow. I mean, I never got the idea of, like, burying people in lead boxes. It's just the weirdest thing. And even though I don't believe in spirits being in bodies, I still think I would not want, you know, my rotting corpse to be in the lead box forever. I'd rather go back to the land and create something good from it, you know?
- [07:36]
Interviewer
That makes perfect sense. You mentioned this inspirational friend of yours, you know, had lots of aspects to her life. Did that awaken any kind of potential strings in your life? As in, is anything you've kind of. You've been keen to grow?
- [08:00]
Claire
The reason I had her as my supervisor for more than 20 years was our interests fed each other as well. I mean, like, she was always encouraging me to do more writing and to study. And I think having her support allowed me to do a lot of creative things. I mean, it's kind of serendipitous because things fell into my way anyway that I never dreamed I would end up doing. I mean, the other thing I should say, which, why I'm also talking about spirit and that kind of stuff, is I've always been a kind of psychic medium, so I see dead people. That's how I know they're not here, because I would see them if they were. Oops, sorry.
- [08:39]
Interviewer
Plot twists. So we see dead people, but we're. And so then none of them are here.
- [08:43]
Claire
No.
- [08:44]
Interviewer
Okay, let's go back to the beginning. So I wanted to ask you about. You said you've always been fascinated by cemeteries.
- [08:48]
Claire
Yeah.
- [08:49]
Interviewer
How did you kind of, kind of actualize that?
- [08:53]
Claire
You know, I don't know what initially drew me to that, because I'd always seen dead people. You know, when I was very little, I thought everyone could see them. And then I kind of realized that not everyone could. And then I went through that thing, which a lot of people go through, of like, oh, I'll stop talking about Granny sitting on the sofa over there when no one else can see her, because it's freaking everyone out. And they think I'm weird. But I always had that kind of connection. And then I went to a boarding school when I was 11. It was a really interesting place, not necessarily in a good way, because it had been a Boston place for wayward boys before it had become a boarding school. And they still had. What would you call it, Cells in the basement with bars where they used to lock them if they misbehaved. Oh, God.
- [09:54]
Interviewer
Still used.
- [09:55]
Claire
They had been used, yeah. And by the time we were there at the school, it was part of the laundry room, so it was a bit weird. But there was a graveyard that was attached to the school. I think the school may have been made probably in the late 1800s. So the boys that had died while they were there were buried in this little cemetery. And the thing about being a psychic, you know, as well as seeing dead people, we're very sensitive to energies. So I was very fascinated by these young men who had lived and died at the school a long time before we were there, that I used to go there and try and connect in with their energy. No one else went in the cemetery. You know, all these boys that had died there and young men that died there had probably been abandoned runaways, whatever, delinquents. So their families didn't care about them. Their families didn't visit the graves. They were pretty much neglected graves of all these young boys and men who had just kind of been forgotten. And I remember once they must have been still using it or for something, because there was an open grave. And I thought, I'll go and lie in the open grave and see if I can connect him with the energy there. But not much happened, really. It was just a bit cold and damp.
- [11:32]
Interviewer
So you got in an open grave, you really, really got stuck in.
- [11:35]
Claire
It's just a hole in the ground. All the rest is psychology, you know what I mean? But I thought maybe being inside the ground, I'd be able to connect in with the energy of these bodies. But it didn't work at the time.
- [11:58]
Interviewer
So in this particular school, it's getting it right. You saw the dead boys?
- [12:05]
Claire
No, I was trying to connect in with their energy by going to the cemetery, but I didn't.
- [12:11]
Interviewer
They were long again.
- [12:12]
Claire
Yeah, yeah. You know, invariably, unless you do some kind of seance or intention, unless it actually has an energetic connection with you, it's not going to come.
- [12:25]
Interviewer
So you were hanging out in this cemetery as a kid, and other kids,
- [12:29]
Claire
they just thought I was pretty weird.
- [12:30]
Interviewer
Anyway, that didn't affect you in any way?
- [12:32]
Claire
No, no, no. I loved being weird all my life. You know what I mean? It was my thing. Hence, big fan of the Addams Family. You know, one of the things about the early Black and White series, you know, I used to run home from school to watch it, was that as a family, they kind of flipped everything on their head. So everything they kind of liked were the things that people wouldn't normally like. But as a family, there was this unconditional love and acceptance for their weirdness. Everyone's weirdness was great. So, you know, I was very much of that kind of thing. And I wasn't particularly worried about other people's opinions, but it did pique people's interest. And this is a strange story. So they asked me, the other boys, you know, if you can communicate with the dead, would you do a seance? And I was, like, a bit dodgy, but they persuaded me in the end. I think I was probably about 13, but I didn't really understand how mediumship worked. I knew I had it. I didn't know how to use it. But, you know, we'd all seen that thing about Ouija boards and seances and things like that. So we got Ouija board. But one of my friends was in the school choir. He was like an altar boy, and he had a key to the church. So I said I would only do it in the church, so at least we'll have protection. I don't know why I thought that again. I didn't really understand. Church is just a building at the end of the day. So we went and did this seance. There was about four or five of us. And I called for spirit to come. And to be honest, at that point, I thought, this probably isn't going to work. It just kind of happens in the movies or whatever. And then I felt a presence trying to enter into my body. And I'd seen the Exorcist, so I was like, that ain't happening. So I completely panicked, broke the circle. And they were all like, oh, my God, you know what I mean? What have we done? And we brought some spirit through that's now going to haunt us or whatever. But bless him, the guy who was the ultra boy then felt so bad, he went and told the priest what done and what happened. And they actually had Someone come in and perform an exorcism on the church. Because then somebody said they saw some spirit running around on top of the church and that kind of thing, which I don't think they did, but they actually had an exorcism in the church.
- [15:26]
Interviewer
What. What did you. Do you remember the sensation of this? I mean, what do you remember of this spirit that you say, we're trying to enter you?
- [15:32]
Claire
Well, I mean, this is the thing. It did freak me out. So I put that whole kind of mediumship stuff away for a very long time. And then in my kind of late teens, early 20s, it used to just come out randomly, usually when I was drunk. And it's not the best party trick, really. No, it really isn't. But it would happen, and it happened a few times. And one way I describe it to people, it's like a door opens somewhere, and then spirit can come through. And I'd be at a party, some random person, suddenly this door would open. I would get all this information, which would then just come out of my mouth, which I wouldn't filter because I was drunk. And invariably, people would end up in tears, killed by.
- [16:27]
Interviewer
Why would they end up in tears?
- [16:28]
Claire
Often when people get messages from the dead, it's upsetting. It reminds them that the person's died. One of the reasons why spirit come through is to reassure people that actually death isn't the end and they are around them and that kind of stuff. But for a lot of people, it's not so good. But also, some of the messages weren't so great.
- [16:48]
Interviewer
What do you mean? We never loved you?
- [16:50]
Claire
No, no. I remember being at this party and there were two couples. But part of what came through was that one part of a couple was actually in love with someone in the other couple. Oh, fun. Yeah. And I said it. And that did not go down very well, you know, because they were supposed to be just friends. So I got kicked out that part in an Uber and then another one.
- [17:21]
Interviewer
Was it accurate?
- [17:22]
Claire
Well, if it wasn't accurate, they wouldn't have kicked me out the party in an Uber. Do you know what I mean? And I didn't know these people. They were kind of random people. Why would I? It wasn't just, oh, he's in love with that person. There was background to it.
- [17:36]
Interviewer
But you're claiming that someone is speaking
- [17:39]
Claire
through you, doing that.
- [17:41]
Interviewer
So it's someone that knows who they are or can explain.
- [17:44]
Claire
Yeah, but you see, the thing is, if you do it intentionally and you're not drunk, you would check who the spirit is. And whether what they were going to say was a good thing for the person to hear, or you could get a spirit that's mischievous. And I think on that particular evening, it was mischievous. It wanted to create chaos, and I didn't stop it. And chaos ensued. So going back to what you said before, after a few years of this happening and me being like, oh, this is a bit tedious, I thought I should go and actually explore this whole mediumship thing and find out what it's about. I started going to the spiritualist church and doing workshops and stuff. One of the things they do in the spiritualist church is called platforming. You know, where you get up on the stage at the front and the people sat down in the church and then you suddenly get a message for somebody sat in the pew and you go, I've got a message for you. And then I was. I was platform. When I was up on the platform and I felt someone come through for somebody, but I suddenly felt their energy enter my body. And then I felt as if I was shorter than I actually am, a bit dumpy, and I could feel these two, like heavy weights on my chest. So I knew it was a woman. And then after that, I did another one for someone else. And then I felt this energy in me and I became really tall and quite rigid. And the first one was somebody's auntie, and the other one was a guy who used to be in the military. And that's when I realized that, you know, one of the abilities I have is that spirit will enter into my energy to give me physical evidence. They were physically giving me information by putting their energy on me. And that's when I realized that that is probably what happened when I was a teenager and I was doing that seance, that the spirit that I was calling in was just trying to give me information. But of course, I thought I was going to be possessed by some mad demons or something, something like in the Exodus, and just panicked. Yeah. So, you know, once I understood it, you know, by then I was in my 30s, I think. Then I was like, oh, that's what it was. It wasn't that bad after all.
- [20:07]
Interviewer
How do you kind of live? What I mean is this, you know, you've got so much going through you, and does it not kind of dominate your existence? Is this something you can turn off and on? Does it just come to you when you.
- [20:18]
Claire
Well, it's. I mean, even though I did all the training and everything, I still kind of decided I didn't want to Be one of those people you see doing the platforms or on the telly or charging people for readings. Because I actually find it a bit boring.
- [20:36]
Interviewer
Doesn't sound that boring. Well, what do you mean boring?
- [20:40]
Claire
Well, it's not a novelty to me because it's been there all my life. Invariably the dead come through because they want to pass some kind of message of comfort onto somebody. So I just become the vehicle to pass the comforting messaging on. There's not much in it for me. Yeah, the person's comforted, but it might be a random person. And I'm like, so fair enough. And also, like I said, I work as a psychotherapist anyway, so my job is helping people. So I was already doing that. And then about 13 years ago, one of my medium friends was like, oh, have you ever thought about doing shamanism? And I was like, don't really know what that is. And then a couple of days later, another medium friend of mine said, oh, you should do shamanism. And I was like, I don't know what that is, but the way that spirit works with me, if I get the same thing twice, especially within a short period of time, then I have to investigate it. It's a message. So then I looked up shamanism and as soon as I started reading about it, I was like, okay, this is the thing I've been looking for. So then I went and trained in shamanism. And so that's another thing I do. And when I was saying about my supervisor earlier and as she was dying of cancer, she was in hospital in Hastings. So in a shamanic journey, we use trance and meditation to go into the spirit realm.
- [22:06]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [22:06]
Claire
And then in that I would see the hospital room, but I would not just see her in the hospital bed, I would see the spirits like her dad and her sister had passed and people like that. Because when we're preparing to die, more of our spirits gather around us in welcoming committee. We see all the people that have passed. So my thing with shamanism is that I make a decision to go into trance and go and investigate things energetically or spiritually. And the thing that excited me about shamanism is that we don't just connect into the earth's vibrational field. We can contact much higher beings of light, beings from other dimensions, from other galaxies, you know, guides that are much more interesting and have much more knowledge than earth bound energy. And that is what fascinates me. So I became a teacher and I teach people how to connect him with their own guides. Because we all have a way, we can connect him with our guides more directly and which includes the dead. Often, people who have been in our life are part of our soul family, and they become guides and helpers for us from the spirit world.
- [23:43]
Interviewer
Who are your guides? Avengers.
- [23:45]
Claire
So my mum, occasionally. She's a funny one.
- [23:50]
Interviewer
Well, why only occasionally?
- [23:52]
Claire
Because when my mum was alive, she wasn't one for talking much. I mean, she was Dutch and she didn't really learn English. She was just very like, do this, don't do that. And she's like that in spirit. And my mum was always very. She loved fashion and she loved having a really nice house and having nice things. So if there's anything I need to do with clothes or the house, she will just come through. But she won't say much. I'll wake up, she'll just be like, you need to go to Zara home today. And I'm like, I don't really want to go to Zara.
- [24:32]
Interviewer
What a message to get from the dead.
- [24:34]
Claire
Beautiful. And then I. When the IC happened. And what I know is that when I get there, if I walk around the shop, I will eventually see the thing, which is the reason I've had to get there. Random stuff. Like, because the other thing people are not so conscious of, and I forget is that every thought that we have is an intention and it's picked up by spirit. So I can say something like, oh, I probably need a new duvet cover at some point. And then my mum hears that and then she goes off looking for a duvet. And then I go to Zara home and I'm walking around. And the other thing, my mum always loved a bargain, so. And there would be like a duvet, which is just the kind of thing I would like, and it would be in the sale and I'd be like, okay.
- [25:18]
Interviewer
It sounds almost like the spirit equivalent of the algorithm.
- [25:22]
Claire
Yeah, absolutely. But it's more direct.
- [25:26]
Interviewer
And then.
- [25:27]
Claire
Yeah, but it's so weird and random. There's a bigger picture to that as well. Like, she did another one. Like, I remember thinking to myself, oh, I really wouldn't mind some quite colourful socks.
- [25:37]
Interviewer
It's good to have. It's good to have colourful socks. Although you're not today. You haven't nailed it.
- [25:42]
Claire
I go through phases, but this was my phase of, like, I want colorful socks. And then I forget about it. And then I was on my way to meet some friends for lunch and I was running a bit late and I got off at Piccadilly and I was walking past. I think it's called St. James's Church.
- [26:00]
Interviewer
Yeah. Another one?
- [26:00]
Claire
Yeah. And I'm walking to lunch and I'm rushing because I'm late, and suddenly my mum goes, you need to go in the churchyard. And I'm like, I don't have time for this. I'm late for lunch already. And she was like, you need to go in the churchyard. So anyway, I go into the churchyard and there's market stalls. So I was like, oh, God, there must be something I need here. And I just don't know what it is. So I start going around the market in a rush and panicking because I'm late. Get all the way around the whole church. I'm just about to leave again a stall selling all these really colorful socks. And I was like, oh, those bloody socks. I forgot I asked about them. And, you know, they had like a five for some cheap offer. So my mom, she loves to bargain. Yeah. So I was like, okay, right, great. But I am really late. So I just grabbed five pairs of socks and then I rushed off to lunch and I was telling my friend and I was like. And a couple of them I'm not sure I really liked. And she was like, oh, I need some new socks. Can I see them? So I get these five socks out, and the two that she liked were the two I didn't like. So even though I was late, she also got socks. And I got my socks absolutely perfect. How weird is that?
- [27:15]
Interviewer
I'm very intrigued by, you know, you're on the way to go to for lunch and your mum's kind of interjected and gone, go St. James's whatever. And you're like, oh, Mum, I've got on my way to lunch. Do you kind of have arguments?
- [27:30]
Claire
My mum doesn't argue. I argue with my dad, my dad's past, who, you know, I'll say, shall I do this thing? And my dad will be like, no, that's not a good idea. And then I'll do it anyway. And then he'll be like, I did tell you. You know what I mean? So it's more like that this is how Kind of Spirit works, because they can see the future and a bigger picture and all this kind of stuff.
- [27:51]
Interviewer
So who else on the guide's team then?
- [27:54]
Claire
So for a very long time, I had a partner that died young many years ago, 30 years ago. And I found it very difficult to get over that loss.
- [28:06]
Interviewer
How did he die?
- [28:07]
Claire
He died of AIDS back in the early 90s. And I wasn't able to really get my head around that. He was living my life because I couldn't let go of him. He was energetically connected to me in spirit, even though he kind of wanted to move on, really. And then I held on to him so long. My soul family, like my mum and my dad, adopted him as part of their family because I wouldn't let him go. It took me a long time to realise that actually he wasn't in my soul family. Some people come into our lives for a reason and then they go and you just have to let them go. But I made him stay around for a long time. And then more recently, my nephew. My nephew died in a rugby accident when he was 24. My brother's youngest son, and we come from a military family. My brother was in the military, you know, my dad was in the military. So he grew up in this somewhat restrictive environment. But there was always a kind of spiritual aspect to him. And when he was dying, because unfortunately he died of a bleed on the brain after a rugby accident and it took him three days to pass. So I did go to the hospital while he was in a coma and I was able to connect him with him energetically and talk to him. But then once he passed into spirit, he's become fascinated with my life and he just follows me everywhere now and just thinks it's really cool. So he's become a rather enthusiastic guide of mine, which is sweet. He's very much like that kind of energy of like, fuck it, just do it, you know. And I guess because he died at 24, he's like, you have one life, just do it. Don't be afraid of things.
- [30:22]
Interviewer
When he was in the hospital and in a coma, you know, close to death, did your family kind of ask you for any. You know, we did you that off your own back or did they say, look, can you step in and. And do something?
- [30:37]
Claire
At the time, I didn't tell them because what was happening was there's a bit in between living and dying, and he was in the in between. So his soul hadn't left his body. That didn't happen till after his. They switched the machines off. But in that in between, you can leave your body. You can like astral project. So he was in the room, he could see his mom and dad crying and his brother crying and everybody. So he was distressed to see the people he loved distressed. But at some point I sat and held his hand. And that's another thing. If I. Because I'm Claire Sending. If I touch somebody, I connect into their energy field. So it was while I was holding his hand that I was able to go into spirit and talk to. And kind of calm him down and explain what was going to happen. Because a lot of people fear death because they don't know what's going to happen. But no, I didn't. It was about him. It wasn't about his parents. They were upset enough already, you know what I mean? So they wouldn't have wanted to know that he was scared and distressed and he didn't like seeing them upset. So. But then a weird thing happened later on. I wanted to talk to him because I could tell he was still around me. And so I went to see another medium friend of mine. Because as much as I have the voices of spirit talking to me, I also have my own voice in my head. And my own voice can be influenced by my ego. So sometimes it's hard to tell if it's the spirit talking or it's what I want them to say. So for clarity, I went to my medium friend and my nephew came through. But he did this weird thing. He told me a lot of stories, stuff about my brother and his wife and his childhood and growing up and this kind of stuff. But then he asked me not to tell my brother, not to tell his dad. To be fair, a lot of the stuff that he told me was not flattering. And I was like, you know, fine, I'm not really close to my brother. I get on well with these kids, but I'm not close to my brother for various reasons. But then my medium friend, I had met him through my brother's wife. So she'd contacted him because she wanted to talk to her son, but her son wouldn't come through for her, which is obviously very upsetting for her. But then my. This bloody medium guy idiot said, oh, I don't know why he hasn't come through for you. He came through for me. So, of course, straight away, they contacted me and they were like, you know, what did he say?
- [33:52]
Interviewer
And I was like, oh, God, what did he do?
- [33:55]
Claire
Do?
- [33:55]
Interviewer
You had to make it lie. You say you couldn't say anything and
- [33:57]
Claire
what do you do? I just gave them a very, very edited version of what he said, really? And I just told them the stuff that I thought would be palatable to them. And there were things that he said, said, you absolutely not. You cannot tell my dad this. So there was no way I was going to tell them those things. So that was strange.
- [34:41]
Interviewer
So we got in the guide squad. We've got mum, dad, nephew, grandparents. Grandparents as well.
- [34:48]
Claire
Yeah. Usually our Grandparents are our guides. Your grandmothers and mothers, when they pass, often they work with the more kind of relationship kinds of things, emotional kinds of things, or in my mom's case, anything to do with vanity. But my grandmothers, they're terrible. They are. They were very feisty women in real life. Yeah, you know, we're going back a long, long way now. They must have been born in the late 18th century or whatever. And they were both like real, no nonsense kind of people. But my grandmothers, their main role, as I understand it, is if anyone pisses me off or wrongs me, they go and do bad things to them. Oh, wow.
- [35:35]
Interviewer
Yeah, yeah, A bunch of heavies. Pair of heavies out there. What kind of stuff they do.
- [35:40]
Claire
So I had an interview and there were two women doing it. And one of the women just didn't like me and she was like really unnecessarily horrible to me in the interview, which is quite upsetting. And then when I saw my medium friend, the blabbermouth one, he was laughing and I was like, apparently my grandmother went and gave her very explosive diarrhea for a couple of days for what she did. Yeah, they're like the Mafia, my grandmother's.
- [36:25]
Interviewer
Were you always interested in death?
- [36:27]
Claire
Well, I was never scared of dying because I understood that it was a transition back into spirit. This is just one thing that we do and we reincarnate. You get other options if you want to come back and do it again. And we've probably done it, you know, I know I've reincarnated thousands of times, but the weird thing for me on the concept of death was When I was 10 years old, my parents weren't very responsible parents. And there was a swimming pool on the army base we were living on and it had been fenced off because it needed some repair work done. And my dad was a swimming teacher. My sister was very good at swimming. Me and my dad didn't get on. I couldn't swim. But my parents let us climb under the fence and go into this swimming pool, me and my sister, while they went shopping. So, age 10, I was 10, my sister was 14. And I was down in the shallow end. My sister was doing all her swimming things. And this was one of those old fashioned pools that had the sloping side and it had a railing along the side on the inside of the pool. So because I was bored, I started with my feet on the slide, started going up, using the railing till I was at the deep end to get nearer to my sister. And just at that point I could see my parents coming in the distance. And I let go of the railings and waved to them. Okay.
- [37:58]
Interviewer
Yeah.
- [37:58]
Claire
And I couldn't grab the railing again and I couldn't swim, so I just sank. And because my sister was off swimming or whatever, she didn't realize, but my parents see me go under, so screaming at my sister, at which time I was already at the bottom of the pool. But the weirdest thing happened. At some point, this incredible calm just came over me and peace. And then I went into the light. Everything just went white. And I had this incredible sensation of bliss. Absolute bliss. It's just the most lovely feeling in the world. You just feel incredible. And then the next thing I knew, I was on the side of the pool and my lungs were on fire because my sister had got me from the bottom of the pool, got me out the pool and was giving me mouth to mouth resuscitation. And I was furious that she brought me back because what I experienced on the other side was so amazing. I didn't want to come. Come back.
- [39:01]
Interviewer
Oh, well, you. You wanted her to let you die?
- [39:03]
Claire
Yeah, yeah, I didn't want to come back.
- [39:05]
Interviewer
Are you happy that she saved your life now? Still not.
- [39:12]
Claire
It's a choice point, you know what I mean? It's. It's kind of like I've actually never
- [39:16]
Interviewer
saved anyone again after that.
- [39:18]
Claire
Probably not. But the. The thing for me was it was a. It was a weird kind of dilemma because, I mean, I had a very difficult childhood. Lots of people who come here who are older souls have many lives. We choose difficult lives because we're gathering information. So we come here to learn about human emotions and human struggles. So fear and pain and all this kind of stuff. So I was having a difficult childhood and it was like I could have just got off the roundabout and gone back to spirit and gone back to this lovely feeling of bliss. Spirit don't have emotions, they're just in perpetual bliss. And my life continued to be difficult. So there was always this part of me that was like, you know, you could just go back, you could just, you know, jump ship, just give it up. But we come here for a reason. And also, I very much understood, probably falsely at the time, that if you come here with a mission and you don't complete your mission, then you just have to come back and do it again and start at the beginning. And I was kind of like, oh, well, you've kind of come this far, you may as well keep going.
- [40:34]
Interviewer
How long do you want to live for?
- [40:35]
Claire
Well, I will, I will live to my mid-80s.
- [40:38]
Interviewer
Oh, you know already.
- [40:39]
Claire
Yeah. Which was never my plan.
- [40:41]
Interviewer
I have interest. Who's told you this?
- [40:43]
Claire
Other mediums. And, and my.
- [40:47]
Interviewer
Unanimously.
- [40:48]
Claire
Yeah, I even had my palmistry done, same thing.
- [40:51]
Interviewer
Mid 80s.
- [40:51]
Claire
Mid 80s, solid.
- [40:53]
Interviewer
Do you know how you're going to die?
- [40:58]
Claire
No.
- [40:58]
Interviewer
In a blaze of glory, I hope.
- [41:02]
Claire
So we, I mean our human ego and what actually spirit want us to do are two different things. So I don't know if I had a choice over dying. I know how I want to die. So I was recently in the Algarve and I was stood on this cliff and it was like a sheer drop of like a couple of hundred feet onto these rocks and this like crashing waves and everything, you know, I was like, that's how I'd like to go. I just like to launch myself off the cliff, hit the rocks and be washed off into the sea for all the sea animals to eat me and make use of my body.
- [41:47]
Interviewer
So I mean, if I'm in the AR in 25 years time and I see an 85 year old looking guy
- [41:51]
Claire
hurling himself off a cliff, it's me.
- [42:01]
Interviewer
I mean, obviously you must accept that like some people hear you talk and they just don't get it, you know, they just don't tune in with it at all.
- [42:08]
Claire
It's the story of my life.
- [42:09]
Interviewer
Remember when I was a little, I
- [42:11]
Claire
thought I was weird.
- [42:12]
Interviewer
So what is the kind of typical backlash you receive?
- [42:16]
Claire
I mean people, a lot of people just don't believe it and it's kind of like, what do you want me to do? I know what I can see. Do you make.
- [42:24]
Interviewer
What I was a bit confused about is your, is your income based on your psychic.
- [42:29]
Claire
No, that's what I mean, that's.
- [42:32]
Interviewer
That kind of gives you more credit, I suppose. As in like, I mean the obvious thing is to say like, you know, if you're, if you're fusing it with the financial gain.
- [42:40]
Claire
Yeah.
- [42:40]
Interviewer
Then you, it's harder to trust, I suppose from afar.
- [42:43]
Claire
And that's what spirit wanted me to do with my mediumship all those years ago. And I was, I was like, I don't want to do that.
- [42:49]
Interviewer
So in your normal, you said you're a psychotherapist.
- [42:53]
Claire
Yeah.
- [42:55]
Interviewer
So you're telling me that like you rock up with these clients and you just don't use anything of what you have.
- [43:00]
Claire
Occasionally, if it's appropriate, it will come
- [43:03]
Interviewer
through, but otherwise you're just listening to people talk.
- [43:06]
Claire
So it's all part of a system. So all my clients come to me via referrals and they think they come by human referrals, but they actually come by spirit referrals. So it's often my grandparents that will talk to someone else's grandparents and they'll be like, oh, you know, my grandson's struggling. And they'll be like, oh, you should send him to our grandson, he'll help him. And so there's always a spiritual connection when people arrive anyway. And sometimes it's obvious from the beginning and sometimes it's not, but it's, it's serendipitous. People meet me because they need to meet me. And I think for me, the thing about like the talking therapy, I mean, I'm not your traditional psychotherapist, but the talking therapist, is that if your friend said, oh, I'm, I'm struggling. And you said, well, go and talk to a medium, they'd be like, no, I'm not gonna do that. That's bullshit. But if you say go and talk to a therapist, they'll be like, oh, yeah, people do that. That seems like a normal thing to do. So people come and talk to me thinking they're talking, talking to a therapist, and they are talking to therapist, but it will eventually, once they build trust and I eventually bring them round to yeah, and there's a spiritual aspect to this.
- [44:26]
Interviewer
I see.
- [44:26]
Claire
Okay. Because it's kind of on my website as well. I do the shamanism and the ayahuascarian stuff and I've had a couple of people come to me and they'd be like, I just want therapy. I don't want any of that kind of, of hocus pocus, don't believe in any of that. And invariably they end up being the people who become very spiritual. But because it's the unknown, it seems a bit scary.
- [45:07]
Interviewer
You mentioned as a kid being weird and people would look at you and not understand. Who was the first person that understood you?
- [45:16]
Claire
Not long after the Ouija board thing where I was really kind of freaked out, a new nurse started at the medical center at the school. And straight away there was a kind of an energetic connection between me and her and she felt it too. And when she was staying overnight in the medical center, you know, overnight duty, I would sneak out of my dormitory and I'd go around and she'd let me in the window and we'd sit talking. And she was somebody that described the herself as a witch. She was a full on witch. And that actually like recognizing someone else. I'm like, my God, Yeah, it's not just me. And I also met her husband and her kids and everything. She was just. Honestly, she is the coolest person I've ever met in my life to this day. She was incredible.
- [46:16]
Interviewer
It's a huge figure in your life.
- [46:17]
Claire
Yeah, yeah, absolutely.
- [46:18]
Interviewer
Without her, what do they would have happened?
- [46:22]
Claire
The universe would have put someone in my path. It just happened to be her.
- [46:26]
Interviewer
What became of her?
- [46:28]
Claire
So weird stories. So then they got a new matron and she didn't like how close I was with the nurse. I ended up volunteering in the medical center.
- [46:41]
Interviewer
To be close to the nurse?
- [46:42]
Claire
Yes. So one day the matron called me into her office and was questioning me about my relationship with the nurse. You know, they thought there was something inappropriate going on between us, you know, 15 year old boy and a married young nurse. She was in her 30s, but I'd met a husband and a kid and that was not it. And I was gay anyway. But the matron, she said I couldn't work at the medical center anymore and I wasn't allowed to see the nurse. And I went ballistic. And, and caveat is, I regret saying this. I said to her, I hate you and I wish you were dead. There's only me and her in the room. And similarly, the nurse was proper pissed off. And then they got rid of her. Three months later the matron found out she had breast cancer. And six months later she died. And I felt so bad because in my anger I'd cursed her and the nurse had too. So I felt so guilty and I never told anybody. And years and years, years later, must have been when I was in my late 20s, when I first met this medium through my brother's wife. He said, oh, I've got a message here. And he was like, well, she was your matron at school. And I was like. The color drained from my face. I was like, oh my God. And he said, you had this argument with her and you told her you wish she was dead, then she died and you've been feeling guilty about it ever since. And I was just like, how the fuck do you know that? I never ever told anyone that in my life. And I wouldn't tell anyone that in my life. And he was like, well, she's here to just tell you it wasn't your fault, you didn't kill her. Let it go. You don't have to feel guilty anymore. You know what I mean? But also, that goes back to this thing about good mediums will give you information that's irrefutable. There was no way he could ever. No one else knew that other than the dead matron. You know, when people say to me, oh, I don't believe in it, it's like, well, what can I say? I have so much personal evidence, both from what I see and what other people see. It's just a thing. It's up to you if you believe in it. Not, you know,
- [49:29]
Interviewer
I mean, you have to ask, have you seen anything since we've been talking?
- [49:34]
Claire
No.
- [49:34]
Interviewer
Good, good.
- [49:35]
Claire
But. But it's. I mean, it is interesting. You know, I believe everything happens for a reason. And, you know, I said I wanted to sit on the sunny bench, and we just had an amazing sunny day all day, sat on this bench of all the benches. And talking these things through have allowed me to remind myself and to connect with things that were probably at the back of my mind. So that's been a gift for me. But also, I think, you know, you were saying about how do people react to this kind of stuff? And in the context of your podcast, some people listen to it and they might go, well, that's part of person's crazy. Or someone might listen to it and say, oh, that makes a lot of sense to me. Maybe I'll go and see a medium, or maybe I am a medium, and maybe that's that one person that needed to hear that.
- [50:29]
Interviewer
No, I like that thought. I suppose that's what it's about, you know.
- [50:33]
Claire
Exactly.
- [50:34]
Interviewer
There's a million different approaches and ways of living life. There's many different abilities. There are going to be people that die on the same. Understand you. There are going to be people that do, and that's just life, isn't it? And also, same with a religion. You're not believing. There's always something that you can. You can tap into and extract from that which is. Which could be of worth. I mean, however you're doing, you're trying to find purpose and you're trying to explore as much as you can, like why we're here, what we're doing, where you're supposed to be, all this kind of stuff.
- [51:04]
Claire
Yeah, yeah.
- [51:06]
Interviewer
There's things in there, isn't there? There's lots. That's why. That's why it's important to. To meet different people all over the place. So thank you for.
- [51:14]
Claire
All right,
- [51:21]
Interviewer
Before the last question. There's always a last question.
- [51:23]
Claire
Yeah.
- [51:23]
Interviewer
What I do is get with. To close their eyes and then to go back to this is. If we can, let's keep this as an earthly memory. It could be a room it could be a space, it could be an open space, it could be outside, it could be inside, whatever. And I want you to kind of take us back there and describe what you could see and what you could feel. Could you do that?
- [51:47]
Claire
Yeah. So where I went as you were talking was back to when I was about 10 or 11. I grew up in North Germany next to. To a big forest region. And my father used to drive me and drop me off in the forest car park. And then I would just wander off into the forest on my own, meet my father back in the car park at lunchtime. And I can remember the sunshine coming through the leaves of the trees. You know, they were big kind of pineapple trees. And I remember just seeing deer and rabbits, and they even had eagles there as well. And I was so deep in the forest, it felt like there were no other humans. It was just me and nature, and we were all one. And I felt such peace and, oddly, freedom. It was almost like escape from the human world. And even as I'm remembering this now, you know, I can feel the sun on my face. I didn't feel that peace again until I went to the Amazon jungle to do my shamanic Ayahuascarian training. As part of my training, I. I would be left in the jungle for long periods of times on my own. And I felt that same peace and oneness with nature.
- [53:25]
Interviewer
Love the answer.
- [53:29]
Claire
Look at that sun.
- [53:30]
Interviewer
It's beautiful, isn't it?
- [53:31]
Claire
We've been lucky, you see, I would even say that's a gift shining down on us for doing this. It's all serendipitous. Of all the people you could have talked to in the park. You caught me just as I was leaving and I just happened to have the afternoon off. I'm working later, and also I'm supposed to be clearing my cupboards out, and I really didn't want to do that.
- [53:57]
Interviewer
Fantastic. Well, thank you so much for talking to me. It's been enlightening.
- [54:00]
Claire
Thanks for listening.
- [54:01]
Interviewer
Last question for you. Actually, we kind of just answered it in a way. And what are you going to do next? I suppose it's cupboards.
- [54:08]
Claire
No, that this was my get out of COVID Yeah, it's a good point. The cupboards can wait. Get out of COVID Do them anyway. So now that the sun's properly out, I'm probably gonna stay here until I have to go to work.
- [54:25]
Interviewer
Fantastic.
- [54:25]
Claire
And the cupboards can wait. Rainy day, because there's bound to be one of them at some point, too. Right.
- [54:33]
Interviewer
Thank you very much.
- [54:34]
Claire
You're welcome.
- [54:51]
Chorus/Spirit Voice
Spirit comes to the home where store but spirit I don't feel pain and spirit speaks in my grandma's voice Spirit moves in mysterious way Spirit comes to
- [55:11]
Claire
me
- [55:13]
Chorus/Spirit Voice
Spirit fills my body Spirit knows I'll be alright? I I do not feel the other side the other side Everything was bath in a bright white light. I felt her weight around my chest not just like two balloons I felt her coming through I felt her coming through. Sperry ever comes to me Spirit fills my body Spirit know I'll be alright? I do not feel the other side the other side Everything was bath in a bright white light. In a bright white light.
- [57:06]
Claire
Sa.