EPISODE 78: We Forget How To Play

Summary

Podcast Summary: Strangers on a Bench – Episode 78: "We Forget How to Play"

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Guest: Anonymous (Nursery worker and mother)
Date: March 9, 2026
Duration: ~38 minutes

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Episode Overview

In this heartfelt and candid episode, Tom Rosenthal sits down with a woman on a park bench in Southeast London, exploring the complexities and joys of parenting, childhood, working with young children, and the art of holding onto playfulness in adult life. The conversation delves into family dynamics, personal challenges, changing social landscapes, and the small, meaningful rituals that define us. The guest, a longtime nursery worker and mother of three, reflects on the changing landscape of childcare, motherhood, and her own journey—offering warmth, wisdom, and many relatable moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Joy and Complexity of Family Life

• Favorite Day—Saturdays at Home
  • [00:49] Guest reveals her favorite day is Saturday, typically spent with her children, music, and games.
  • "[Saturdays are when] most of my children at home, we usually have a Saturday night together... we play music, we do games." ([00:56])
• Navigating Family Dynamics
  • Manages the presence of children's partners, particularly with an older son who has autism, to keep everyone comfortable ([01:28]).
  • Parenting children with a wide age range: a grown son, two teenagers—a houseful of boys ([01:48]).

2. Raising a Child with Autism: Challenges and Pride

• Early Struggles and Changes in Support
  • Describes primary school as "horrific" for her autistic son due to lack of resources and understanding ([02:01]-[02:52]).
  • Wishes better support had existed: "There were times when I really wished he hadn't been born in the year that he was..." ([02:52])
• Pride in Overcoming Barriers
  • Her son made it through university, a proud milestone ([02:35]).

3. Reflections on Motherhood and Life Choices

• Why Have Children?
  • Honest admission: "Don't know. I think he wasn't planned. It probably just... happened and it just seemed like the right time." ([04:25])
  • Didn't always want kids despite career with children, felt unsure if she’d be good at motherhood ([04:01]-[04:09]).

4. Decades in Nursery Work: Changes and Lessons Learned

• Longevity in the Field
  • Has worked with children since age 18—her only job ([04:46]).
• Fundamental Shifts in Childcare
  • Shift from rigid expectations to seeing children as full people with complex emotions ([04:55]).
  • Advocates for acknowledging children's feelings and supporting autonomy:
    • "You have to remember they're little people, they're the same as us with all the same emotions. And when I'm at work now, I try and sort of say to staff... there's a reason behind why every child... is behaving like that." ([04:55])
• Paperwork Encroaches on Play
  • Misses time for play due to increase in bureaucratic requirements ([07:05]).
  • "[Reporting] takes away from the playing and being with them..." ([07:05])

5. Why Play Matters—For Children and Adults

• Freedom and Learning through Play
  • "It's how they find their freedom and they learn." ([07:53])
• Forgetting How to Play as Adults
  • "I think growing up, we forget how to play as well." ([07:58])
  • Keeps playfulness alive: dances in Tesco’s aisles, rides supermarket trolleys ([08:12]-[08:31]).

6. Formative Childhood Experiences

• Only Child’s Perspective

  • Quiet, shy, imagined having siblings—even pretended her dolls were siblings ([09:00]-[09:21]).
  • Family structure influenced her own choice to have multiple children:
    • "Perhaps I didn't want him to be an only child." ([09:27])

• Growing Up with Divorced Parents

  • Father largely absent; relationship remained distant despite attempts to reconnect ([10:00]-[11:04]).

7. Openness, Independence, and Values as a Parent

• Learning from Her Mother
  • Strived for more openness and warmth with own children:
    • "Be really, really open with them...for them to know that they can always talk to me and that nothing is off limits." ([13:41])
• Teenage Years: Secrets and Independence
  • Didn’t confide in her mother about wild teenage years—sought advice from friends ([14:09]-[14:38]).

8. Friendship and Support

• Work Friendship
  • Longtime friend and boss at nursery, weathering work tensions and personal support ([14:41]-[15:06]):
    • "We've been lucky like that." ([15:06])

9. Personal Joys, Rituals, and Small Pleasures

• Books as Constant Companions
  • Always carries a book—even to concerts, supermarket, or when out on errands ([20:26]-[20:43]).
  • Childhood library visits are deeply nostalgic:
    • "I can remember being taken to the library as a child...walking, click, click, click." ([20:53]-[21:13])
• Proud Bookworm and Reading to Children
  • Read aloud to baby to combine reading time with parenting ([22:02]).
  • Admits to reading at a Cliff Richard concert—a moment of comic honesty ([22:34]-[22:44]).

10. Parenting Today & Navigating Teen Technology

• Teenagers and Technology
  • Acknowledges the isolating potential of phones and social media—but uses tracking apps for safety ([24:27]-[24:44]).
  • "You can all sort of be in the same house... but everyone's their own show that they're watching." ([25:26])
• Motherhood Now vs. Then
  • Remembers roaming freely as a teen—contrast to constant connectivity of today ([26:29]-[26:53]).

11. Coping, Freedom, and Looking to the Future

• Dreams of Solo Travel and Future Freedom
  • "I've never been on holiday by myself, so maybe... traveling. Yeah. Being somewhere sitting, looking at pretty, shiny silvery water." ([16:17])
• Concerns about Aging and Visibility
  • Wonders if she’ll become more "invisible" as she ages, drawing on her mum’s experience of shrinking social circles ([30:37]-[31:19]).
  • Sees the importance of maintaining interests and connections outside of work ([31:19]).

12. Light Moments and Memorable Anecdotes

• Goat Eats Her Skirt Story

  • "[My] skirt was eaten by a goat... at London Zoo when I was little." ([33:29])
  • Memorable and endearing; a snapshot of childhood vulnerability and humor.

• On Being Approached for the Podcast

  • Laughs about the randomness and slight daredevil feeling of saying yes to a stranger ([27:20]).

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "There's always a reason behind why every child...is behaving like that." – Guest, [04:55]
• "I think growing up, we forget how to play as well." – Guest, [07:58]
• "I used to sit and read out loud [to my son]...Then I didn't feel bad that I wasn't taking any notice of him." – Guest, [22:02]
• "Maybe more clubbing. I do. I keep looking at the ones that start early and finish at 10." – Guest, [35:02]
• "Perhaps I didn't want him to be an only child." – Guest, [09:27]
• "She really was the best, but I don't know that she was sort of the warmest. Okay, now she is. And sort of with grandchildren..." – Guest, [12:56]
• "You can all sort of be in the same house...everyone's their own show...it is an extension of being private." – Guest, [25:26]
• "There's always tomorrow, isn't there?" – Guest, [34:33] (in response to housework plans)

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Important Timestamps

• [00:49] – Discussion of favorite days and family routines
• [02:01] – Parenting a son with autism
• [04:55] – How approaches to childcare have changed
• [07:05] – Increased bureaucracy in early years education
• [07:58] – How adults forget how to play
• [14:41] – On making friendships at work
• [20:26] – Carrying a book everywhere
• [22:34] – Reading a book at a Cliff Richard concert
• [24:27] – Reflecting on teenagers, technology, and isolation
• [30:37] – Fears about aging and becoming "invisible"
• [33:29] – Goat eats her skirt at London Zoo
• [35:02] – On rediscovering clubbing as an adult

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Tone and Atmosphere

The tone is candid, nostalgic, and deeply human—sometimes bittersweet, often warm, blending humor with honesty. The guest is reflective but lighthearted, quick to laugh, and relatable in her admissions of imperfection, hopes, and modest dreams.

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Final Thoughts and Poetic Closer

The episode closes with reflections on the value of ordinary lives and a poetic narrator summarizing the ethos of the show:
"Remember life’s a game to play...if the road gets tough, remember me dancing in the aisle, amongst the groceries, and the little things that make you smile..." ([35:52]-[37:43])

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In Summary

"We Forget How to Play" is a warm, layered conversation about parenting, resilience, change, and the importance of not taking life—or oneself—too seriously. Listeners are reminded of the joys in mundane rituals, the possibility for openness and growth with age, and the enduring value of playfulness at every stage of life.

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This summary is designed for those who wish to experience the emotional honesty and gentle wisdom of Episode 78 without listening to the full interview.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. Do you have a favorite day of the week?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Favorite day of the week? Saturday.

[Interviewer]

Straight in there with a Saturday. Lovely. Can you say why?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Why? Most of my children at home, we usually have a Saturday night together. I do a bit of shopping in the morning. I work five days a week. So Saturday I sit and have a drink and we play music, we do games.

[Interviewer]

How wonderful.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

That's sort of my Saturday.

[Interviewer]

When you say most of your children are at home.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Well, I have three. Middle one has a girlfriend, so we may fluctuate as the weather. We are in the house.

[Interviewer]

That's quite fun. What's it like when your children have girlfriends?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Suddenly it's okay. It's a strange dynamic in my house because I've got an older son who has a learning difficulty, so he's not comfortable. Strangers in the House. So the girlfriend doesn't come over at all times because that doesn't make my oldest uncomfortable. So it's a bit of juggling and a bit of accommodating.

[Interviewer]

And then you've got a third one somewhere as well.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yes. There's a younger one. Yeah. So yeah, there's a 20 something and two teenagers.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow. It's a lot, isn't it? Oh, boys. Amazing.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

What's it been like having a child with learning difficulties?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

It's been tough. He had autism.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

So primary school was horrific, but it was a small primary school. Maybe the teaching wasn't great, but there was dinner ladies that knew that he didn't like to eat certain food and kept him plain pasta and a fish finger bag. So as tempting as it was to change primary schools. So, yeah, it's been tough, but I think we appear to be over a hill and quite. Now that he's early 20s, he made uni, which was something.

[Interviewer]

Oh, great.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

So, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So he's been through university already.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Oh, incredible. Looking back, do you wish. Obviously now. Now the resources are so much better.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

For children with learning difficulties, you know. Do you. I wish it was. If it was now, it would be different. Or how do you reflect upon.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

There were times when I really wished he hadn't been born in the year that he was because I was blatantly told that his primary school class was so needy with other children that were undiagnosed and with other issues that if he'd been any other school year, he would have got more help and it would have been easier for him.

[Interviewer]

Yes. Is there anything you wish you knew before you were a parent?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh, I shouldn't have gone clubbing so much and should have saved up all that sleep that I wasted going out drinking and clubbing all those nights. I didn't have sleep when I was out all night.

[Interviewer]

Were you preparing? In a way, yes.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

We did always say this. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

This is a funny question. You know, if someone doesn't have children, you might say, oh, why don't you have children?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's quite a common question to ask. Can I ask you, why did you have children?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I don't know. See, I'm not with their dad anymore, but I didn't have children until I was 30. And people always assumed that I would have children earlier because I worked with children.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

And there was a bit of me, I always thought that I perhaps wouldn't have children because I was always worried I wouldn't be very good at it. I was good with other people.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah. Do you think that's quite common for people that work with kids? God, I'm good at this. But if they were my own.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I work in a nursery and people thrust. Oh, you hold the baby? No, I work with children that are a year and upwards. I don't really, desperately want to hold your baby.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Don't know. I think he wasn't planned. It probably just. He happened and it just. It seemed like the right time.

[Interviewer]

So you work in a nursery still?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Amazing.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So, God, you've just been surrounded by children your whole life?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, since I was 18.

[Interviewer]

Amazing.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

My first job. My first and only job.

[Interviewer]

And then you just stuck at it. What are the fundamental things you think you've learned about looking after small children?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

It's really, really changed. Children were looked after and they had to fit into. This is how school should be. Whereas I think now they. You have to remember they're little people, they're the same as us with all the same emotions. And when I'm at work now, I try and sort of say to staff and I say, oh, no, they should just be doing it. No, they shouldn't. There's always a reason behind why every child. There's a reason that they're behaving like that or acting like that. And when I'm with the children, I try and make sure they're acknowledged. I know you're sad, I know you're crossing yeah. And just acknowledging their feelings a bit more and, and letting them sort of have that autonomy. I think that's a really important one.

[Interviewer]

That's, that's. That's a lovely answer. That's very lovely. How is it say goodbye to some of these kids? Because I'm guessing, you know, you spend so, you know, that's a lot. I'm guessing. Well, they're with you for a few. Couple of years.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah. We take children from a year till four. Yeah, sort of four and a half. We have sons, children who we've looked after the parents and then they brought their children.

[Interviewer]

Oh, my God, that's how bloody old.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, we have had that.

[Interviewer]

Whoa.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

It is nice. We have families that stick with us.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, you must. I mean, is there any of them you have, I don't know, any particular children that have kind of stayed with you, you know, that meant something extra to you for some reason?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, sometimes. And we've had children that have had special needs and you know that after a few weeks, a month, you go, I can see a difference. You have outside agencies come in and they help you and you learn something new. And I do sort of remember we had a little girl who was non verbal and we were taught that you had to look for eye movement. So the left hand would always be. Yes. And that would be how she communicated. But watching her eyes flicker towards and going, oh, gosh, wow, that worked. So there are children that you still sort of think of. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you started when you were 18, so that's now a while ago. What's changed in being in a nursery until now?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

We have to write so much. We have to write reports and observations. Yes, I know the reasons behind it, but it takes away from the playing and being with them and. And doing some sometimes when I know I've done lots of stuff that day and I go, oh, I've got to sit and record it all now. Write it all up.

[Interviewer]

What do you have to write?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

They have progress reports. Each child has a folder and you have a group of key children and you plan activities for them depending on where they are developmentally and what will push them forward to a next stage.

[Interviewer]

Does that kind of eat into the playing side?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, you've always got to find that

[Interviewer]

time to sit and play is so important, isn't it?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Why do you think play is so important?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

It's how they find their freedom and they learn.

[Interviewer]

And

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I think growing up, we forget how to play as well.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Have you forgotten how to play? No. You don't because you play all the time.

[Poetic Narrator]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I shouldn't do.

[Interviewer]

I mean, what's your play time when you're not in the nursery?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

What, when I do silly things like a quick whiz down the aisle on the back of the trolley and have a little scoot?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, exactly. Is that what you do? You stand on the back of a trolley?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I love that little scoot on the supermarket.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah. You just let him. Let him off a little bit.

[Interviewer]

Superb. That's the way to do it.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Anything other bits like that.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

My kids laugh at me because the Tesco's near me plays good music, so I have a little dance, like. I suddenly realized that this is my. My house and I'm just having a little dance around.

[Interviewer]

You should be allowed to dance wherever you like, right?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's why you got to take your opportunities.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

This is it.

[Interviewer]

Were you always as a child, were you a playful person?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I was an only child.

[Interviewer]

So you had to make it up?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And they. That's. Yeah, yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I was a fairly quiet, shy child, I think.

[Interviewer]

So what was it like being an only child?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

A big brother to look after me and a little sister. Like a baby sister.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

That I could dress up and like to be a real doll.

[Interviewer]

Not to read too much into this, but you think there's any connection between that and having three children?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Although I had my oldest at 30, that perhaps I didn't want him to be an only child.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

And because I'm an only child, we haven't got an enormous family because there's not lots of cousins and lots of aunts and uncles. So I gave him two younger brothers to annoy.

[Interviewer]

Fantastic. What was your. The atmosphere in your family home like?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Well, for me, when I was little, my mum does put up when I was about 5, so it was just me and my mum and dad. He was sort of present in and out.

[Interviewer]

What does that mean, in and out, as in.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Well, he was very reliable. Once they split up, I used to see him sometimes at weekends. He had a new partner who was very nice and she had three children. And between my mum and dad, it was difficult. So I think sometimes she sort of stopped some access and he didn't really push for it either.

[Interviewer]

So does that mean you. Your relationship with your dad's been a bit complicated?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, yeah. We wasn't in contact. I think as I sort of became a teenager, sort of 18, 19, and had a partner, we kind of lost touch.

[Interviewer]

Did you ever regain touch?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

We did, yeah, Sort of. Pockets. But he died a couple of Years ago, we wasn't in contact. I had loads of people saying to me, you know, you must get in contact. If something happens, you're really missing. And to be honest, it sounds awful, but you can't sort of miss someone that wasn't.

[Interviewer]

Wasn't there much.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah. A real father. We had similarities. We both read lots, but there wasn't. He would have been more like an uncle.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

There wasn't a connection of a dad.

[Interviewer]

Did anyone kind of take his place?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

No, my mum never remarried, so no, that was about it.

[Interviewer]

So when he died, obviously you hadn't seen him for a while by the time he died and he. And he just. You didn't really feel that much?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh, no, I didn't. I suppose I sort of felt. Oh, sort of. Maybe not sad, but.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah, I think that's totally fair. I think there's a kind of assumption that, you know, you. You have to be devastated if any. You know, as you say, if he hasn't been a big part of her life, then. And he left fairly early in your

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

life and I think even before being five, he. He was someone that worked lots.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, he did the old exclamation marks there.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

As in, like, what. What was he working on?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, well, he left my mum for his secretary, so I must.

[Interviewer]

Classic. So I'm assuming it wasn't old winner.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

A lot more work was involved.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

To be fair. I'll give them both their due. They stayed. They both left. Partners.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see. So they say.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, they say, Yeah. I don't know my mum that did it like that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

He sort of found the love of his life somewhere else.

[Interviewer]

When did you learn? Did you learn that at the time or later?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Not at 5, but probably sort of at some point at primary school that she sort of unhappily threw out.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

One day.

[Interviewer]

So have you always had it in for secretaries? So growing up mostly just with your mum and. What kind of mum was she? Or is she. She's delightful.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

She is still.

[Interviewer]

Oh, fantastic. Sorry.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Great. Yeah, she is good.

[Interviewer]

Good on her.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

She's okay. She's okay.

[Interviewer]

She was all right. She wasn't. Wasn't the best.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

No, she really was the best, but I don't know that she was sort of the warmest. Okay, now she is. And sort of with grandchildren, but I

[Interviewer]

think sort of took a while. How did she eventually become warmer? What was the process?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I just think maybe sort of me being an adult and grandchildren coming along and now sort of being a single parent and having three children, both I kind of see. I mean, it's just you making all the decisions day in, day out, and each time at night you shut the door and you go, ah. The washing machine breaks or the light bulb goes and all the school bits and everything. It is just you.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

And it is a lot.

[Interviewer]

What did you want to do differently, you know, when you became a parent?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Be really, really open with them.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

And fun and sort of for them to know that they can always talk to me and that nothing is off limits.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Did you feel like your mum wasn't that with you?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, yeah, definitely. Although now totally different, but no growing up. No. I would never have sort of dreamed telling my mum what I was up to or where I was going or.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Whereas now I have 19.

[Interviewer]

Did you sneak around as a youngster then? Does that mean. Yeah. Would you think you were a naughty teenager?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I wasn't naughty, but I did drink and I did do drugs, but I always kept it quite sort of discreetly and was never a big sort of hassle or worry. And I worked and. But yes, she wasn't someone that you. A mum that you could have said, oh, I'm a bit worried about this, or I'm thinking of doing this.

[Interviewer]

Who did you go to?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Probably friends. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Who's been the most important friend in your life, would you say?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I've got a friend at work. She's also my boss. She's a couple of years older than me, so. Yeah. When I started work at the nursery at 18, she was already there. Yeah. We're still friends now. Still work together now.

[Interviewer]

Amazing. What's it like to have a close friend who's a boss?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

It's okay.

[Interviewer]

Does it mean she ever have to

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

kind of say, look, yeah, yeah, sometimes

[Interviewer]

we've had this or more reports, more writing.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah. There has been sort of moments where everyone's in line for a bit of a bollocking that day, and that's how it is. And then, you know, we're messaging or we're out for lunch at the weekend. So, yeah, we've been lucky like that.

[Interviewer]

Oh, it shows that a real strength of friendship, that it can. That it can handle those moments as well. Right. Yeah, that's quite. That's. That's. That's really quite wonderful. You know, as your children get older and, you know, you become a bit more free, is there anything you're keen to do with your. With your freedom?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh, I don't know. I'm just quite enjoying sometimes the freedom of a day off here and there. Where I don't do anything and I'm not mum. Hence today. Well, here I am in the park with a book and. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Asking loads of questions about you being a mum.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I mean, if they all just left at some point and.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, is it. Would you. How would you like to spend your time? Let's imagine you don't have to be at the nursery either. What's the wildest thing that comes to your head when I say that?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I've never been on holiday by myself, so maybe being. Yeah, Traveling. Yeah. Being somewhere sitting, looking at pretty, shiny silvery water like that. But somewhere.

[Interviewer]

Somewhere not in south London.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Has South London always been kind to you?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yes, I've always lived in southeast London. Yeah. Yeah, I like it.

[Interviewer]

How's it changed since you were a teenager?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh, I think where I grew up is probably a lot poorer. There's a lot more unemployment now, you mean? Yeah, I think when I was younger, me and all my friends, she sort of walked into jobs all the time. Whereas now it's a lot different.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. That's trickier. Do you worry for your children in that sense?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I do a bit. I've got one who's very committed to his job. He's a journalist and I've got one who doesn't know what he wants to do. He's just about to leave school and actually a younger one who also doesn't know what he wants to do either.

[Interviewer]

What do you take. What do you say?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I don't know. My middle one, he could go to uni. His grades are amazing, but there's nothing he wants to study to that degree that he wants to do for three years. I don't want to pressure him to do. There's nothing worse than fancy being at uni for three more years and not loving it and not enjoying it because he's got A levels coming up. I'm easing off and not mention it and just let him sort of do his own thing at the moment. He does some football coaching, so.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Work it out in the end.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, exactly. It all comes.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You mentioned. So their dad's not around. What. What was that a complicated thing?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh, God. Does it come from. Yeah, fairly, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Have you had a partner since then? Has that been.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Not a partner that I would have around my children? No casual things.

[Interviewer]

You've done it all on your own.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, but I mean, he's a. He's a weekend dad. They're in contact with him and things are much better now.

[Interviewer]

Do you think, with the whole weekend dad Thing you try and make the most of that time by. I don't know either. More treats, more action, more fun, whatever it might be. And then of course, you know, you have to do all the kind of hard work. Right.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Now, like, does that get kind of

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

grating when you know the reason I'm laughing is because. No. He comes over and sits in my house with us. Does he?

[Interviewer]

Brilliant. Amazing. Okay, sorry. You know, if he wasn't getting on,

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

he'd come over and I'd go out. I'd take myself to the local pub with a book and go and have lunch.

[Interviewer]

He just comes and sits in the house. Well, that. I mean, I suppose in a way. In a way that's kind of. That's kind of. Maybe that's better. So at least. At least you don't kind of have like a competition.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But you kind of found a way to. So you.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

We do get on.

[Interviewer]

Get on.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yes. Yes.

[Interviewer]

How did you finally reach that moment after? Obviously, I'm guessing not getting on for.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I think removing the drink and drugs from his life probably helped him quite a deal.

[Interviewer]

I see. How did you do that?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Well, he went to rehab and everyone else comes out of rehab with a sponsor. He came out as a girlfriend.

[Interviewer]

Okay, okay, I see who you met. Yeah, yeah, right.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And that. And that was not great.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

No, it wasn't great. And it certainly wasn't what I think the children expected.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Hence why he comes to my house and they, they choose not to.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Do anything with that side of his life.

[Interviewer]

Can you think of anything he does well as a dad? Like, are you, are you, are you kind of happy with your choice? I mean, if you could.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Gorgeous looking children.

[Interviewer]

Oh, there you go. So well done. So you, you chose, you chose some beauty.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yes. They're gorgeous looking children.

[Interviewer]

Is there anything is part of your daily world, daily practice. Do you think only you do? Do you have any kind of things in your routine that's just for you? Any kind of quirks of your. Of your setup? The little things that kind of always

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

have a book with me.

[Interviewer]

Always?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, always.

[Interviewer]

I like that. Wherever you go. Yeah, always.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah. Even today. See, I haven't got a big bag. Usually I would have my work bag and my book. Today I only went to drop stuff off at the charity shop, but I still bought my book because I was coming back this way.

[Interviewer]

And even if you went to, say, the supermarket, would you take a book?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I have done, yeah. In case you need to have a little read at the bus stop.

[Interviewer]

What's been your relationship with books been like. I mean, when did it start?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh, I love reading. I can remember being taken to the library as a child and it had wooden parquet flooring and I can remember walking, click, click, click, click, click. And my mum would get her books and then I can remember sitting on a chair while she chose her books. I'd be sitting with my books.

[Interviewer]

So that's kind of quite a happy me and my memory.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, I can really remember library visits and so you.

[Interviewer]

And so. And it started then you just knocked, Never stopped.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, I've always read.

[Interviewer]

Can you think of a book or a moment reading that's kind of had a really big impact on your life or. This is, you know, this is extra important for some reason.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I don't know about particular books, but I know that when I had my first child, my mum bought me a book by one of my favourite authors called Maeve Binchey, an Irish writer. And she sort of said to me, not that you'll have much time to read it now, you've got baby. And I remember I used to, in the night, I would sit and read to my oldest son. If I was reading him and he was still awake to get my reading in, I would read it out loud. Brilliant. Then I didn't feel bad that I wasn't taking any notice of him.

[Interviewer]

That's wonderful.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I used to sit and read out loud.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's so lovely. Can you think of the oddest place you've ever read?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I went to a concert with my mum that I just went because she wanted to go and see this person in concert. And I took a book and we sat at Wembley and I thought the people around me were going to lynch me because it was in the summer and it was Wembley, so it was nice and light. Every so often when I got a bit bored, I sat and read some of my books.

[Interviewer]

I mean, you know, concerts can be long.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

It was Cliff Richard.

[Interviewer]

Oh, absolutely fair. You know what? Absolutely fair. If you're going to read anybody's concert.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

There you go.

[Interviewer]

Big Cliff.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

So you're not a big Cliff Richard fan?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

No. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

No. Do you have any kind of heroes in your life who would you not read it at their particular thing?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh, I'm going to see Robbie Williams. I wouldn't read a Robbie Williams concert. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Are you a fan of Watertape? That's.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I've seen Take that.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, you have?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I was more of a Robbie fan.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see. You just ignored the others entirely.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Someone With a little bit more oomph.

[Interviewer]

You're not a Jason Orange guy.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

No, definitely not. Gary Bartlow.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you got it in for Gary. I suppose he has a bit of a Cliff Richard feel. So it's a bit kind of holier than thou. It's a bit kind of straight. Yeah, exactly. So you like them a bit cheeky?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You know, they're mates, they're mace. That makes sense.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Makes sense, doesn't it?

[Interviewer]

That does make sense. That does make sense. Makes perfect sense. What are you doing in your life when you feel most happy?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Probably things like, I know my children are about and we're listening to music.

[Interviewer]

Do you just like to be in your house with the children?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

All's right in the world and. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then do this all together?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Do you eat together a lot?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh, no, they're teenagers. There's quite. That's why when we are all in the house and everyone's sort of ready

[Interviewer]

to engage, how do you feel about teenagers? Teenagers in today's world, what do you think?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Really? Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Do you think it's harder now than it's been before for teenagers?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, I suppose. And it's a cliche thing, but phones and social media and. Gosh, I used to leave the house and my mum had no way of knowing where I was.

[Interviewer]

Where are you going?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

She couldn't ring me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, definitely couldn't ring you.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Now I've got an app on my iPad where I can track my children.

[Interviewer]

Do you have a look? Do you often, like, go, oh, why are they there?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Only if they're out somewhere, like a sporting event or somewhere where they're not local and they're getting trains back and it's late at night sort of thing.

[Interviewer]

What do you think about teenagers and social media and what that all means? Would you. If you could press a button that meant it didn't exist, would you press that button?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh, I don't know about. Didn't exit. I think maybe looking at my youngest, who's 15, he didn't have a phone till secondary school. But I still think if you could push it a bit further and a bit further.

[Interviewer]

So let's imagine your son pre phone and then what? What's the difference? Like what happened? What happens to him at that point?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

But I think it just makes everyone quite singular.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

You can all sort of be in the same house or everyone's their own show that they're watching or doing this or. And we're all guilty of it as well, because I wouldn't sort of give my phone to anyone or to one of my kids and say, oh, check out what I've been doing.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

So it is an extension of being private, of course.

[Interviewer]

So it's kind of isolating a bit.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How do you get on with your phone? Who's on your screen saver, by the way? Is it all the. Is it all three children? Do you pick a fave?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

It's two of them.

[Interviewer]

Two of them.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Because the other one. Oh, no. Because the other one doesn't like having his photo taken.

[Interviewer]

Oh, no.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

And they're just hard work to get a picture of all together as well.

[Interviewer]

It sounds like a good mission.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

It is amazing.

[Interviewer]

Sounds like something you need to complete.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Heads are always a different way, then the youngest says, and where are you putting that photo? It's not going on your WhatsApp profile, is it? Is it everywhere?

[Interviewer]

That's so funny to think about to a time when none of this has even existed. You're saying you're going out, you know, as a teenager and just, you know, just off you went.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I used to go out for the day on a Saturday with my friends from secondary school and we would get. I'm so old. We'd get something called a red bus Rover. Oh, what's that Like a bus ticket? And it would last you all day. So you could go everywhere up at Oxford street and everywhere. You just got on different buses also.

[Interviewer]

Any bus you could get. And you just would go wild on the buses.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, we would just go to shopping centres and mooch about different parks all day.

[Interviewer]

Do you remember any particular moments on a bus?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

No. I remember being on a train once and the door flung open. Me and my friend had to, as it was moving. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, God, yeah. Like an action film.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah. Although I was out and about that I wasn't a particularly wild or daredevil child. And it horrified me, the thought of what could happen.

[Interviewer]

Maybe the Daredevil time is yet to come.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

This is quite Daredevil There you go, you see.

[Interviewer]

Maybe this is just the start of your.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

If you'd have approached me and I'd been walking, I might have different game.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh, God. Now I really PC.

[Interviewer]

But sitting down. I'll stay sitting down. Don't even have to move, you know. It's quite handy, that one.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Have most people said yes. I mean, are you more successful on a certain day or.

[Interviewer]

It's a really good question.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

What's your favorite day of the week?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, definitely. I've asked so many people now, I've just got confused about what Days they are. Let's just take today, for example. You're the third person that's agreed to talk to me.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

But I have been here for a while.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

There's a gate open.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. I come straight in. But I reckon maybe four have said no. That's roughly how it goes. It's a roughly 50. 50 gig. And then you. More men or women, usually who say yes or no. I would say on the whole, all women are a bit more open.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

To it.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

See, I'd have wondered that they're not a little sort of wary. I'm interviewing you now.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. No, that's a big. That's totally allowed. That's totally allowed, you know. Oh, yeah. It's always talk to people that Other people around.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

If I am approaching someone who's on a more isolated bench, I always make sure I stand, you know, a good way away from them.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So they don't feel at all like I'm kind of in their space.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

They've got plenty of room to leave.

[Interviewer]

And I kind of try and talk for as long as possible to give them an idea that I'm a safe, meaning, well, person.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And hopefully if I talk a lot, they can kind of see that older or younger people. Oh, more or less likely.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I would say the whole older people are more reluctant at first. One of my favorite episodes of this is being an older Glaswegian guy, probably in this late 80s, and I had to kind of stand next to him for maybe about 10 or 15 minutes just talking to him before he kind of accepted me sitting next to him. And eventually after he did that, he was incredibly open. He had a fascinating life.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

As for some people, they haven't been listened to or. Why would I be interested enough?

[Interviewer]

Well, that's it. That's the whole point of this is just like it's about anybody. I think everyone's got an interesting life, a life of so many choices and challenges, you know, and very often the people that tell me, oh, I've got in to stay, always the ones that are kind of, you know, exciting existence. So, yeah, I've had a really lovely time being able to do it. And there's just such an amazing range of people just hovering around in a park. That's the beauty of a public space. They're just all hovering around in the same spot, you know. Have you had. We had any wild experiences in this park itself? Is this like. Is this like a kind of. Have you been coming here for long?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, this is the park that I brought my children to. Yeah. For years. I think I brought my youngest here when he was a few weeks old.

[Interviewer]

Are there any parts of you that you feel are kind of invisible?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I think as you get older, you sort of. You're a bit more invisible.

[Interviewer]

What does that. What do you mean by that?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I suppose if I look at my mum, she has a very sort of small friendship group, so life sort of perhaps gets a bit smaller.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I suppose I wonder if when I don't work full time or what will be.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

What would be next? And I think I've always sort of hinted to my mum because she's indoors and we go and visit her and she comes to us, but otherwise she could go days without sort of seeing anybody. And I've always sort of hinted about, oh, you could sort of have a voluntary job. And so I do. Sort of. Wonderful. If, you know that thing once you don't work. Is work sort of all you've got? Or have you. Is there sort of more?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So are you wondering that about that for you?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh, yeah, maybe. I suppose I look at my mum and go, oh, yeah.

[Interviewer]

I suppose if you. If you're aware of your mum, that that's a good start. Right. And then touchwood, you get to that point, you'll be able to just do it how you want to do it. Have you ever thought. Have you ever write anything?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

No.

[Interviewer]

You can write your own book.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Oh.

[Interviewer]

What we call it.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Everyone has a Story.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Maybe that's what you can do.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Ah. But inspired by the man that I met on the park.

[Interviewer]

He told me to do it. Everyone started.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That was it. And then you're off.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

My Jonathan Ross interview, where I think. And 18 books later.

[Interviewer]

Exactly.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Here I am today.

[Interviewer]

Die globally famous. It's inevitable. It's coming. What? What if you had to. What would it be about? Oh, God. If you had to.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Something set in Ireland that's a little bit mythical.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

That sort of thing.

[Interviewer]

This is good. And he said he wanted to go for a solo holiday, I think there. I think Ireland.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Reading retreat in Ireland.

[Interviewer]

I think Ireland. So some kind of mythical bit of island. I mean, it's all mythical, really.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What would happen in this mythical setting? Let's keep going.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

We're gonna crack it.

[Interviewer]

What's gonna happen?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Who knows? See now it's something to think of, isn't.

[Interviewer]

Have you ever had a funny incident with a horse?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Don't think I have.

[Interviewer]

Oh, we're trying to get. You know, we're only here once. This is it. Yeah, I like to, you know, make a stab in the dark. Like maybe she's had, like this really interesting moment with the horse or. I think I asked someone about a goat the other day as well.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

My skirt was eaten by a goat. Oh, that has happened at London Zoo when I was little.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I did. What do you mean?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Like, I came over in children's petting zoo.

[Interviewer]

It's like eating a. Chewing on skirt

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

and I stood there calling, mommy, Mommy,

[Interviewer]

the goat's eating the skirt.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Eating me.

[Interviewer]

Amazing. What did your mum do? She race over there?

[Poetic Narrator]

Yeah, I think I. Yeah, I had

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

to be rescued because I wouldn't move.

[Interviewer]

Oh, so that is your goat.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

There you go. There's my goat story.

[Interviewer]

Everyone's got a goat story. That'd be so good, wouldn't it? Just getting everyone's like, goat story. It's so niche. Be so niche. Trying to think of what I mean. I suppose we've done goats now, so it's complete. The last question I ask people is always the same. You can either answer this about today or generally, what are you going to do next?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Technically, today I was going to go home and mop and hoover my flats.

[Interviewer]

Yes, you say technically as you like.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah, well, there is always tomorrow, isn't there? There's always tomorrow. You're right.

[Interviewer]

There's always another day for hoovering. Enjoy yourself today. Today. Keep reading. I've started your reading time, so there's

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

reading to catch up on.

[Interviewer]

What are you reading?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I'm reading Queen of Clubs. It's a memoir of someone who run clubs in Shoreditch. Fantastic. In the 90s. Wonderful reading about someone else's mistake.

[Interviewer]

Are you the Queen of Clubs?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Maybe a long time ago.

[Interviewer]

Maybe that's it. Maybe more clubbing.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

I do. I keep looking at the ones that start early and finish at 10.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah. I should do it. That actually does sound up my street as well. I quite like a finish by 10.

[Poetic Narrator]

Yeah.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

There is something very nice about being out in the afternoon at a music event.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

It makes you feel I really should be doing something else, but I'm not.

[Interviewer]

I'm doing it exactly perfect. Well, I really hope it all goes smoothly. You do all your special goat fun and your constants are great.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Thank you.

[Interviewer]

And thank you so much for talking to me.

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

You're very welcome. It wasn't as scary as I thought it could have been.

[Interviewer]

That was all right, wasn't it?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

It was all right. The three of you,

[Poetic Narrator]

the heart of me. Our stories grow like branches from the same tree and I'm an open book, an open door? No conversations off the table? I'm all yours? And you will find your way? Through the choices that you make? Just like mine led me to you? As you turn another page? Remember Life's a game to play? And no matter where you go or what you do? I love be here? If the road gets tough? Remember me dancing in the aisle? Amongst the groceries? And the little things that make you smile? They help you to remember? That it's all worthwhile? You will find your way?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

On?

[Poetic Narrator]

Whatever path you take? Just like mine led me to?

[Nursery Worker / Mother]

Yeah?

[Poetic Narrator]

So turn another page? Leave me here? And Saturday? No matter where you go? Or what you do? I'll be here?