EPISODE 83: Maybe You Already Have It All

Summary

Strangers on a Bench – Episode 83: "Maybe You Already Have It All"

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Date: April 13, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this intimate episode, Tom Rosenthal sits on a London park bench with an anonymous stranger, delving into perspectives on everyday contentment, relationships, the immigrant experience, loss, and finding meaning in life’s simplicity. Through gentle, meandering conversation, the interviewee shares a philosophy anchored in minimalism, presence, and gratitude—offering a counterpoint to modern restlessness and the endless chase for “more.” The episode explores how a well-lived day might look, the enduring influence of culture and family, and whether true satisfaction is found in “just being.”

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Approaching Each Day with Openness

[01:00–02:14]

• The interviewee expresses an appreciation for every day, not favouring any:
  Interviewee: “All days are good. Like, no particular favorite.”
• A well-lived day is depicted as one without work stress: simple pleasures like coffee, sunlight, and observing life flowing past the bedroom window.
  Interviewee: “I would say one where I don’t work…mostly like 8am I just make up some coffee, enjoy some of the sunlight, if there is any.”

2. Observing Life & Finding Joy in Small Things

[02:04–03:44]

• The pleasure in watching squirrels, birds, and people, and the delight in noticing ordinary happenings:
  • Affection for squirrels: “They are just nice little things trying to survive us.”
  • On possessions: embraces minimalism, picking up useful things for free—recently, a “very sad IKEA rug.”
• Metaphorically, a smile is described as a kind of wave. Interviewee: “Not with my hands, but with my face. Like a smile. It’s a wave.” (03:40)

3. Mornings, Rituals, & Love

[04:32–06:44]

• Describes sharing slow mornings with a girlfriend, praising their cats, and speaking in Spanish at home for their pets:
  Interviewee: “We just praise our cats...we say it in Spanish because our cats speak Spanish.”
  • Cats’ names: Piratica ("little pirate") and Collage (for his patchwork colors), both adopted from the streets in Mexico.
  • One of his most prized “finds from the trash” is a cat.
• The “morning session” with his girlfriend is seen as the cornerstone of their relationship.
• Three favourite things about his girlfriend:
  1. She listens
  2. He can speak about anything with her
  3. She followed him to London from Mexico

4. Navigating Love & Life Transitions

[06:58–09:56]

• Their relationship evolved from friendship (even after she dated his close friend) to living together, deepening in Cancun, and ultimately relocating internationally together.
• The decision to move to London is highlighted as their relationship's most significant moment: Interviewee: “Knowing that she was willing to live through some of the uncertainty that coming to another country would be, to me was such an important thing.” (08:55)

5. Identity, Immigration, & Values

[10:10–13:51]

• Moving countries forced a reevaluation of “first world” and “third world” narratives: Interviewee: “We are taught that first world countries are better…but that doesn’t necessarily mean that they are better.”
• Emphasizes the value of sharing and openness from his Mexican upbringing:
  • Example: food is always shared, family gathered for “sobremesa”—lingering, social conversations after meals.
• Observes less sharing in "westernized countries" compared to the “global south.”

6. Living in the Present & The Philosophy of “Just Life”

[14:10–16:47]

• Favorite days include coffee, praise for cats, running, and simply sitting on a bench observing life—mindful meditation and presence.
• Adopts a worldview where problems are simply facets of “just life.” Interviewee: “I don’t have problems. I just have life.” (15:45)
  • Problems are reframed as parts of existence, not obstacles.

7. Coping With Loss

[17:47–19:38]

• Hardest moments: the deaths of grandparents, especially grandmothers, remembered through family stories and food.
• Shares a magical story about his grandmother reviving a bird using a tortilla pan, exemplifying the warmth and wonder of family memory.

8. Reflections on Rules, Loss, and Play

[20:24–21:48]

• Memories of “lucha libre” (Mexican wrestling): celebrates the “underdog” who follows the rules and often loses.
  • When asked about rule-breaking, the interviewee says: “I prefer not to play…You cannot lose if you do not play.” (21:11)
  • Handling loss philosophically: even losing a bike to theft isn’t a problem—“it’s just life.”

9. Problem-solving with Presence

[22:05–28:06]

• Tom presents imagined “problems” for the interviewee’s take:
  • Injury: reply is to “rely on others.”
  • Unfulfilled ambitions: “Why do I want to be a pilot?”
  • Feeling lonely: “We are never lonely or only if you want to be lonely…You are part of all of it.”
  • On disliking one’s job: Acknowledges compromise, suggests seeking meaning in helping others and coworker connections. Interviewee: “Maybe I’m not making any difference in the world by doing what I do, but I can make a difference in the life of others, my coworkers.”

10. Taking Risks & The Philosophy of “No Maths with Life”

[28:31–32:54]

• On risk-taking: dislikes “making maths” with life’s choices. Interviewee: “Once you start thinking about measuring lives…you’re not living, you’re just making maths.” (30:39)
• Questions the necessity of constantly seeking “more” or “better,” preferring to let life unfold and follow curiosity only when it genuinely pulls him.

11. The Chaser vs. The Appreciator

[32:54–35:49]

• Tom contrasts his own drive to “grab opportunities” with the interviewee’s receptive, present-minded approach.
• Interviewee’s caution: “The chase is never-ending and you never get there…maybe stopping and realizing that maybe you already have it all.” (35:11)
• Theme: Satisfaction in the now, questioning the endlessness of chasing.

12. Transformation & Art as Reflection

[36:07–39:36]

• On becoming less of a chaser: "Knowing yourself, why you lack and why you search."

• Credits music (Latin American protest songs), art, and poetry as crucial to “stopping and reflecting”: Interviewee: “A little bit of poetry, like Sufism, has been really useful to stop and reflect why I’m chasing things when I already have all of this.”

• Photography as a practice of presence—every photograph means something.

13. “Small Pirate” Philosophy & Mild Acts of Rebellion

[40:16–41:52]

• Identifies as “a little pirate,” symbolically resisting unjust rules (like private beaches).
• Sees acts like squatting for housing or reclaiming public beaches as meaningful “piracy for the right reasons.”

14. Technology & The Marketplace of Ideas

[42:00–43:46]

• Sees technology as a tool but equates the internet to a “giant tourist trap”—full of things marketed at you, both goods and ideas.
  • Recommends seeking out the valuable corners of the internet and avoiding the noise.

15. The Power of Non-Transactional Conversation

[44:08–44:35]

• Reflects on the joy of genuine, expectation-free connection. Interviewee: “There is no transactionality in this, which is good.”

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• Minimalism and presence:
  "The less stuff I carry, the better." (02:35)

• On picking up things for free:
  “We pick them also from the trash, like in Mexico. So, like, you know, I like to pick off things from trash.” (05:13)

• On relationships and love:
  "I love that she came with me to London because she didn’t have to." (06:01)

• On losing loved ones:
  “When loved ones die…there’s nothing you can do…you realize that it’s not a problem again, it’s just life.” (17:57–18:22)

• Wisdom on dealing with problems:
  “I don’t have problems. I just have life.” (15:45)
  “We are never lonely or only if you want to be lonely.” (23:52)

• On risk:
  “Don’t make math with life.” (30:35)

• On the endless chase:
  “The chase is never ending and you never get there...maybe stopping and realizing that maybe you already have it all.” (35:11)

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 01:00: “All days are good”—valuing every day equally.
• 02:40: “The less stuff I carry, the better”—embracing minimalism.
• 04:49: Morning ritual—“We just praise our cats…in Spanish.”
• 06:01: “She listens…she came with me to London…”
• 09:39: “This is a chance that I have and I would like you to take it with me.”
• 13:08: On “sobremesa” and family togetherness.
• 15:45: “I don’t have problems. I just have life.”
• 18:43: Reviving the bird—“This is some sort of magic.”
• 21:11: On rules—“I prefer not to play.”
• 23:52: “We are never lonely or only if you want to be lonely.”
• 30:35: “Don’t make math with life.”
• 35:11: “Maybe you already have it all.”
• 42:33: Technology as a “gigantic tourist trap.”
• 44:15: The value of non-transactional conversation.

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Tone and Language

Warm, modest, and reflective. The interviewee’s speech is unhurried, philosophical, often poetic—grounded in personal experience and an invitation to ease, context, and acceptance rather than striving. Tom’s tone is curious and gentle, occasionally playful, and ultimately admiring, offering a subtle contrast to the guest’s worldview.

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Final Reflection

The episode’s central message is a gentle challenge to Western ambition and dissatisfaction: perhaps fulfillment comes not from chasing, but from the quiet, attentive enjoyment of what is already present.
As Tom summarizes towards the end, it’s the meeting of two worldviews—the chaser and the content appreciator—but the episode gently encourages listeners to stop, sit on the “bench,” and notice that maybe, just maybe, you already have it all.

Transcript

[Interviewee]

Hello.

[Interviewer]

Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. Do you have a favorite day of the week?

[Interviewee]

Good question.

[Interviewer]

Great question. Great question. Good question. Good question.

[Interviewee]

I would say no. All days are good. Like, no particular favorite.

[Interviewer]

That's no problem. I like that answer. It says to me that you just enjoy each day.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so let's do this. What for you, looks like a day really well lived on Earth.

[Interviewee]

I would say one where I don't work.

[Interviewer]

So you're not working. This is good. When you wake up, what time? How are you feeling? What are you doing?

[Interviewee]

Mostly like 8am I just make up some coffee, enjoy some of the sunlight, if there is any.

[Interviewer]

You look out the window?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, always there is a window right in front of our bed.

[Interviewer]

Have you ever seen anything interesting out of this window? Happening?

[Interviewee]

Interesting? I mean, just life passing.

[Interviewer]

Live passing.

[Interviewee]

Sometimes there is squirrels. Sometimes there is just people going to work.

[Interviewer]

How do you feel about squirrels?

[Interviewee]

Oh, they are really nice. They are just cute.

[Interviewer]

Some people say they're like rats with tails. You don't agree?

[Interviewee]

I mean, rats are also very nice. This is right.

[Interviewer]

And they're very clever.

[Interviewee]

Like, they are just nice little things trying to survive us.

[Interviewer]

If you were a squirrel for the day, what would you do with your day?

[Interviewee]

The same that I do as a human, you know, like.

[Interviewer]

Do you eat like nuts?

[Interviewee]

Yeah. Eat some.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Do you eat. Do you eat like a squirrel?

[Interviewee]

Maybe I would not hoard as many as they. But I guess they need to to survive.

[Interviewer]

How many things have you put in your pocket? Do you often put lots of things in your pockets, like a squirrel?

[Interviewee]

Not that much. Yeah, I don't carry that much stuff. The less stuff I carry, the better.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you like to have no possessions.

[Interviewee]

I try to.

[Interviewer]

You're a minimalist. You don't buy anything, is that what you're saying?

[Interviewee]

I try not to. Yeah. I try to pick up anything that I can that's for free out of the street.

[Interviewer]

What's the best thing you've got for free recently? Can you think of anything exciting you've got for free?

[Interviewee]

Oh, a carpet.

[Interviewer]

A carpet.

[Interviewee]

Like a rug. A rug, yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What was the pattern? Describe the pattern of the rug.

[Interviewee]

Oh, there is no pattern. It's a very sad IKEA rug. Rug. That is how. Yeah. Should actually. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

If you had to make A one line of pattern through the rug. What color would it be and what angle?

[Interviewee]

I mean, it would have to be like a wave.

[Interviewer]

Interesting. Why would you like a wave?

[Interviewee]

Because squirrels have waves as well. Nature has waves.

[Interviewer]

Nature has waves. The sea's got waves. Sound has waves. Everything has waves. Do you wave to people in the street as well?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, of course.

[Interviewer]

With your hands?

[Interviewee]

Not with my hands, but with my face. Like a smile. It's a wave.

[Interviewer]

A smile is a wave.

[Poet/Narrator]

That's lovely.

[Interviewee]

Smile to everyone.

[Interviewer]

Maybe we should wave to people passing us by today. Right. Where were we? So I've led us down different paths. We're looking out the window. You've seen some squirrels out the window. But really just like life passing by.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. I also like seeing if there is any. How do you call it? Not smoke, but vape coming out of the houses.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yes.

[Interviewee]

People are having a shower.

[Interviewer]

They're starting their day. You can see the mist from.

[Interviewee]

Different mist. Yeah, that's a framework.

[Interviewer]

Different buildings.

[Interviewee]

That's.

[Interviewer]

That's lovely. And you imagine people just having different showers or whatever they're doing. Okay, so you're having your coffee. You know, what's. What's your coffee experience like?

[Interviewee]

I mean, we usually prepare, like my girlfriend and I like some filter coffee and we just sit and talk, talk

[Interviewer]

and just anything you like to discuss in the mornings with girlfriend or anything

[Interviewee]

particular subject, we just praise our cats.

[Interviewer]

Praise.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That one's great. That one's great.

[Interviewee]

Obviously we say it in Spanish because our cats speak Spanish.

[Interviewer]

What are your cat's names?

[Interviewee]

It's Piratica. It's like little Pirate. And collage, because he looked like a collage. Like different pieces of different cats. Yeah, yeah. The colors were a bit mismatched.

[Interviewer]

Collage. That's sweet. It's a lovely name. Collage, actually.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. We pick them also from the trash, like in Mexico. So, like, you know, I like to pick off things from trash.

[Interviewer]

It's the best thing you've got in the trash is a cat. Okay, so we're morning with your girlfriend. You're on the. You're on the couch praising the cats. How long will you talk for on the couch with girlfriend?

[Interviewee]

I would say like an hour.

[Interviewer]

Oh, so quite a while. Every morning.

[Interviewee]

I mean, like days. I don't work.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. If you didn't work at all, would you still do the hour a day with the girl? That's lovely. Do you think that's like the kind of cornerstone of your relationship, like in a very important part of your relationship?

[Interviewee]

Yeah. I would say so.

[Interviewer]

The morning session?

[Interviewee]

Yeah. Yeah, it's very nice.

[Interviewer]

That's wonderful. What do you think about your girlfriend?

[Interviewee]

Oh, she's amazing.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's wonderful.

[Interviewee]

Yeah, I love her.

[Interviewer]

Tell me more. What do you like, top three favorite things about your girlfriend?

[Interviewee]

I would say I love that she listens. And also I feel I can talk with her anything. Like I can talk anything with her. I love that she came with me to London because she didn't have to. So we both relocated from Mexico.

[Interviewer]

So did you have to persuade her a bit to come?

[Interviewee]

A bit, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

And what else? I would say if I had to pick one thing, I just love her. Like there is no particular reason. Ah,

[Interviewer]

that's the main one, isn't it? Really? Tell me about your first moment of connection. When was a moment you realized, like, there's something extra here?

[Interviewee]

I don't know if there is like a particular moment. We've known each other for quite a while. Like we met at university. It's funny because she initially was dating one of my closest friends. Interesting. That friend is still one of my closest friends. Okay, good to hear.

[Interviewer]

Because sometimes that doesn't always work out that way. Right. So that's good.

[Interviewee]

I mean, we always, like, we were always friends. I moved to live to Colombia for a bit, but we remained in contact. I would say that was a good moment to just realize that we were really close. We just kept talking every day while I was in Colombia, like, as friends. And then when I came back to Mexico, we lived together as roommates. And then we went to Cancun. And that was very nice as well. Maybe that would be one of the moments when I realized, like, oh, maybe this is more.

[Interviewer]

So you went to Cancun as friends, just you two, and then suddenly, yeah,

[Interviewee]

it was like we started to get closer and closer.

[Interviewer]

Do you remember that first kiss two?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, I do. But that was actually in another small town in Mexico.

[Interviewer]

Do you remember how you felt at that moment?

[Interviewee]

I think it was a bit uncertain of what was going to happen because at the same time neither of us was really sure how much we really wanted to take it further because we were very close friends and we also cherished that relationship. I guess with time we realized that it was just another step to get closer as friends, as lovers. So that was really nice.

[Interviewer]

What would you say was the most important moment in your relationship so far? Can you think what that would be?

[Interviewee]

I mean, I guess the moment when we decided to come here. Yeah, because at the same time I was like, if she doesn't want to come, I will just stay. It's fine. Like, it's just work. And knowing that she was willing to live through some of the uncertainty that coming to another country would be, to me was such an important thing to realize that I was with someone that I loved and really loved me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Can you remember what you said to her? What did you say when you're trying to persuade her to come? You don't do a PowerPoint presentation. Point one, London is.

[Interviewee]

No, I mean, it was really simple. I think it was just like, this is a. A chance that I have and I would like you to. To take it with me and see how it goes. I mean, it's been now almost five years.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow. So you're both enjoying it?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, definitely. We. We obviously miss home, like from time to time, as any immigrant. But I mean, London is also just amazing. So we also enjoy the time here.

[Interviewer]

How has the move changed you and changed her?

[Interviewee]

I mean, I always say that people that move countries either reaffirms their already existing beliefs or those that just break them more, even more. I think that in our case it was breaking those beliefs and reaffirming some as well.

[Interviewer]

Interesting.

[Interviewee]

And yeah, realizing that the world is big and beautiful.

[Interviewer]

It is. What beliefs were broken for you in the move?

[Interviewee]

So curiously, I would say that Mexico is considered a third world country.

[Interviewer]

Not by you?

[Interviewee]

No, of course not. We are taught that first world countries are better and they are beautiful and they are just a different way of living. But that doesn't necessarily mean that they are better. I think that there is a lot of value in other alternative ways of seeing the world coming from non developed countries. And I think that moving here is. What it made me realize is also the places where we come from are beautiful and they have a lot of value. Especially when you come from these countries. You are taught to believe that that's not the case and that you should aspire to come to these sort of places. And it's like, not really. Like, it's amazing. But that doesn't mean that you should believe that that's the only way.

[Interviewer]

I really like that. Tell me more about these values that you have that you brought here in terms of how you live and the values from home that you try to. Can you explain, give examples of some of those?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, I mean, I would say just a philosophy of love and openness and sharing. No offense, but I think that more westernized countries than to not be so sharing and selfless as the global south or at Least this is something that you get to see in the day to day. And it's such a fundamental part of places like Mexico. That's something that you should bring everywhere and that should be everywhere.

[Interviewer]

I really like that. Can you give a specific example of this kind of love and sharing that you did in more Mexico that you try and do here? Does that make any sense?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, let me. Let me just think of something very specific. I mean, I guess the most obvious example in the case of Mexico is the sharing of food. You never deny food to anyone and you like to share it like that. You make eating a social moment. It's not just Mexican. Like that's something that you also get to see in Spain and like lots of countries, like what they call Tesobre Mesa. So when I was a child, my family would just gather all together with my grandma. My grandma would make food and after eating, everyone would stay at the table just talking and having coffee, some smoking when it was okay to smoke inside. And. Yeah, just that. That moment of like just sharing and being there was very nice.

[Poet/Narrator]

That's wonderful.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so let's go back to this favorite day of you. We've actually only got very little into this. Coffee. Coffee with girlfriend. Then you finish your coffee with girlfriend. What happens then?

[Interviewee]

I would usually come here. I like to run. To run. And then sit here in the bench and look at the birds and look at the city.

[Interviewer]

There's got to be a point where that's. How many hours could you do that for?

[Interviewee]

Oh, yeah. I mean, like I usually just run like 30, 40 minutes and then I sit here for 20, 30 minutes. I don't know. Sometimes can be more or less. Yeah. And then I come back and then I usually go out with my girlfriend somewhere. Yeah. And then we decide what to eat. If we have some Mexican food that we brought from Mexico in the freezer, we get some of that or we go out and have some food outside.

[Interviewer]

Beautiful. Why do you run and not walk?

[Interviewee]

I just like that it's very easy to meditate when you're running. You think less and just are more. Yeah. Because you are just the movement at the moment.

[Interviewer]

What is dominating your thoughts, you know, when you look out into the city as you are now, what is coming into your brain? Any problem you're keen to solve in your life?

[Interviewee]

I don't have problems. I just have life.

[Interviewer]

That's beautiful. Have you ever had a problem? I mean, you've always just had life.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You must have had one problem. Do you mean that you have problems? But you don't see them as problems.

[Interviewee]

Yeah, it's just life. Like, you just have to sort it out.

[Interviewer]

I say that every time now. When someone comes to me, he goes, I've got a problem. No, you don't. You've got life.

[Interviewee]

I try not to think when I come here. I don't like to get into my thoughts that much. Or at least if I want to think about something, it's more about trying to understand who am I in the world.

[Interviewer]

Who are you in the world?

[Interviewee]

I think no one.

[Interviewer]

What is your.

[Interviewee]

I think I don't exist.

[Interviewer]

Wow, you do know. You look existing to me. I mean, what do you want to do with your existence?

[Interviewee]

You know, I want to just be.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Beautiful. That's beautiful. I mean, that's very. Not London. People need a reason. You must do this. You must be doing this.

[Interviewee]

I think that London, yes, but this London now, no.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that London is very different. No, that's for sure. Has anything gone really badly wrong in your life yet before? Tell me. You seem very calm. No problems, just life. But you're not 15. Like, actually, I've got no idea how old you are. Don't tell me. Quite hard to place your age.

[Interviewee]

That's good. I have no age.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, you don't. I mean, it's appropriate that you actually have no age. You're definitely under, like, 50. That's all I know. Am I right?

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay, good, good, good. You know, you look like you've lived enough life that you must have had some bad moments.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I mean, have these happened? Can you think of a day if I said to you, like, what's been the hardest day you've experienced in living? Can you think of that day?

[Interviewee]

Hmm. I mean, I guess that when love once dies, like. Like, probably the hardest and most difficult moments because there's nothing you can do. But that's usually the case with most of the problems that have no solution. And then you realize that it's not a problem again, it's just life.

[Interviewer]

So there it is.

[Interviewee]

Yeah, it's still really sad. Like,

[Interviewer]

any particular ones you can think of that were most hard to deal with in terms of people?

[Interviewee]

Mostly my grandmothers. Yeah, I think those. Those were really, really sad times for me. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How do you choose to remember them now?

[Interviewee]

Through food? Through particular moments. I remember one time when, like, I always say that this is a very Mexican story and almost magical because my grandmother used to have birds. Like, birds. And I was just a kid playing with football, and I just kicked the ball that hit the cage where my grandmother kept the birds. And then the bird was, like, hurt, and it didn't move. And then my grandmother was like, I need to warm the bird. And then she put it in the pan that we use to warm tortillas, and the bird just came alive again. This is some sort of magic.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow. So she took the bird and put it in the tortilla pan, and then it just got better.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Wow. That's beautiful. I never heard of reviving a bird via that method before, but it's good to know.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. She was also prohibited from watching lucha libre because her blood pressure would go up. But she loved it.

[Interviewer]

So what is lucha libre?

[Interviewee]

Oh, lucha libre. Like wrestling.

[Interviewer]

Oh, sorry. No, I didn't. Okay. Wrestling, Sorry. Oh, so she used to like watching wrestling?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, yeah. It's a very common thing in Mexico.

[Interviewer]

Oh, fantastic. And she was just. She got too passionate about it.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. Yeah. So.

[Interviewer]

Oh, wow.

[Interviewee]

So she was prohibited from watching.

[Interviewer]

Did you watch it?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, I did.

[Interviewer]

How did you feel about it?

[Interviewee]

Oh, it was funny. It's funny because, you know, it's like lucha libre and wrestling is something in the middle between a sport and performative art.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Interviewee]

You know it's fake. They know it's fake. But then you pretend it's true. They pretend it's true, and then it becomes true. And then it's like.

[Interviewer]

Okay, yeah, that's very well explained. Did you have a favorite wrestler of yours?

[Interviewee]

I mean, my grandmother loved El Perojo, so I like. I like him as well. But he always lost.

[Interviewer]

He always lost. Is that why your grandmother liked him? She liked the underdog?

[Interviewee]

So in lucha libre, they are like the good guys and the bad guys, the guys that play in the rules and the guys that don't follow them. So Albert Ragallo was one of the ones that always followed the rules, and that's sometimes why he lost.

[Interviewer]

I see. He was too good.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Do you feel you play by the rules too much, or do you sometimes break rules?

[Interviewee]

I prefer not to play.

[Interviewer]

Just don't play.

[Interviewee]

You cannot.

[Interviewer]

You cannot lose if you do not play. Yeah, that's the one. Does that mean maybe you're such a bad loser that you simply don't play? Because if you did lose, it would be devastating, perhaps. Could that be the case? When was the last time you lost something? You must have lost something. A game, a bet?

[Interviewee]

I would say that something I lost my bike here in London. Got stolen.

[Interviewer]

Oh.

[Interviewee]

No, but I mean, it's just a bike again.

[Interviewer]

Wasn't a problem. It's just life.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I feel like I should maybe a fun game we can play. If we play fun game, I'm going to imagine some problems I've got. Okay. And then you've got to give me your response in your own lovely style of dealing with problems. Should we do that?

[Interviewee]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Okay. I've just recently slipped up in my garden and I've broken my ankle.

[Interviewee]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

And I can't walk anywhere for a few weeks. What should I do?

[Interviewee]

Okay. Rely on others. You must have someone that can help you.

[Interviewer]

Very good. Very good. I like that. Next one. I want to be an airline pilot, but my eyesight isn't good enough.

[Interviewee]

I mean, I would start wondering, why do I want to be a pilot?

[Interviewer]

You never want to be a pilot in the first place, is what you're saying.

[Interviewee]

No, not really like that. But if being a pilot is not for me because of my eyesight, first I would like to understand why I wanted to be a pilot. To see if there is anything is that can get me closer to that. Is it just flying?

[Interviewer]

Beautiful. I've woken up, it's raining. I feel lonely and I don't know what to do today.

[Interviewee]

Well, if it's raining, you just get wet.

[Interviewer]

What about the lonely bit though?

[Interviewee]

We are never lonely or only if you want to be lonely. And I think that a lot of people in places like London don't realize that they are not lonely, but they get trapped into themselves so much that they don't realize. And that's something that. It makes me sad because it's sometimes very difficult to make them see that. But at the same time it's like, you can help. Right?

[Interviewer]

So when you say we're never lonely, you mean if there's people out there, you should never be lonely. There's always possibilities. Or you think, we're never lonely, just we've got ourselves, we've got the world outside. Is that what you mean?

[Interviewee]

I mean both. Yeah, I mean both. I think it goes back to the we don't exist, we are just one with the world. There is always something to see, there is something to admire in just the beauty of nature, the beauty of life. And then you have others.

[Interviewer]

Is being around others enough? As in like if I'm feeling lonely and I come to a park and watch people go by, do you think that helps?

[Interviewee]

It does, but it needs a state of mind. Right. You need to get out of yourself, accept that you are part of all of it.

[Interviewer]

How do you get out of yourself, do you think?

[Interviewee]

I think the more you Realize that you're part of everything, let other things get inside you and realize that there is no me. How do you exactly do that? Or realize that this process of understanding yourself and thinking about what you are, what's the world. But I mean, it's always a process, right? Like that's something that different people find and realize in different ways. And we all have to try to walk that path.

[Interviewer]

Of course I'm enjoying this game. Let's carry on. I. I really hate my job. It gives me no satisfaction at all.

[Interviewee]

I do live that.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you live that already. The plot, this is it, the moment. It all spins around. So I hate my job. It doesn't give me any great satisfaction. I don't know what to do.

[Interviewee]

You just have to make a decision, which is, what do you want to do with that? In my case, and I would say

[Interviewer]

it's like, so this is your case now?

[Interviewee]

You say, yeah, yeah, I think I don't really enjoy my work.

[Interviewer]

So hang on, but where's this advice to yourself?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, I should take it.

[Interviewer]

What's going on here?

[Interviewee]

I should take my own advice.

[Interviewer]

What's going on.

[Interviewee]

But at the same time, you have to compromise, right? For the time being it makes sense to say like, well, maybe I can stand up with it for a bit more. It's fine. Like, you just have to accept it. And maybe it's like, start planning out how you'll be able to live. It just takes a step. Right. But you have to be sure about the step.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. How do you make your job? So this is the question to you now, specifically, how do you make your days in your job more satisfying even though you're not overall satisfied by it through others?

[Interviewee]

I do not find pointless to be with others. And the people that is around me at work are genuinely good people. And maybe I not necessarily making any difference in the world by doing what I do, but I can make a difference in the life of others, my co workers, because they might need help. That's something where I can find meaning.

[Interviewer]

He's good.

[Interviewee]

That's, I guess what has been keeping me afloat in a job that I don't like.

[Interviewer]

If you were feeling very brave one day, actually, let's imagine this. Let's imagine I gave you a briefcase now of money, enough money to last you, I don't know, a year. Enough time to maybe train in something else or to think about another what something that you would like to do. Can you think about what that would be?

[Interviewee]

Just to do what I do every Saturday and Sunday, the day that I describe you sit on the bench and wake up with my, my girlfriend and

[Interviewer]

I hate to break you off, but I mean, like, from what you've just said to me, I've understood that the work itself is not particularly satisfying. The people are always satisfying. You find joys in the people and your place within them and. Right. But like, could you find a job where that was the job, you know, whatever is there not like I would

[Interviewee]

say people are people and any job with people is a good job. As long as it's a job that doesn't do bad in the world, a job that helps others, it's a good job. And as long as it gives you sustainment, like the things that you need to live would be a good job. I don't really go much into the who am I and what's my job and how do I define myself through job or work? As long as it meets those requirements that I mentioned, it's going to be okay.

[Interviewer]

Interesting. So would you say you're not a particularly a risk taker? Is that fair? Or maybe you are. I mean, you came here. That's a risk. Do you think you take enough risks?

[Interviewee]

But risk about what?

[Interviewer]

I mean risk like it would be a risk to leave your job, but like it could lead to better times.

[Interviewee]

That's too much calculation. I don't like, I don't like making maths with life.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that's a good quote. Don't make math with life.

[Interviewee]

I like it because once you start thinking about measuring lives and measuring the risk and you are not living, you're just making maths.

[Interviewer]

That's true, that's true. But then what if I say I'm just being difficult for the sake of. But what if I. What if I say you're not living as much as you could do with your job, so the risk is worth it. If there could be more living in your Monday to Friday than there currently is, as there's more to it, more nourishment, is it worth that? Maths.

[Interviewee]

But you're always, you're still trying to make maths out of it by saying more. Why more? Life is not more or less. It's just life.

[Interviewer]

It just is what it is. I know, but I feel like, I think you're so clearly a great appreciator of life. It's very special to meet those people. You don't meet them very often. Your magic, I suppose, is you are able to make life from everywhere. That doesn't mean though that there can't Be more. Do you see what I mean? And that's okay, I think to go for that.

[Interviewee]

Okay. I think I'm getting that there's like

[Interviewer]

more satisfaction to be had out there.

[Interviewee]

I think I get your point. Not from more life, but more as. Like, we are curious beings, right? We just like to explore things. And yeah, there is always the what's up there. In that case, I wouldn't say that. I tend to be very intentional about saying what's in there. It's just like, just follow your heart and see where we get. You never know if the current of life will take you one place or another. And then if you see something interesting, it might be interesting to just swim a little bit and say, okay, let's see what's there. The only thing I don't really like is to go against the current. I just like to follow the path that seems to be the easiest one. And then if I see something interesting, I will just try and explore it. I would say that's as far as my ambition goes with life.

[Interviewer]

When was the last time that happened where you saw a little moment and you jumped at it?

[Interviewee]

I mean, I would say a good example is the relocation to London. I was not particularly looking for a move. It's just something that came, seems like an opportunity. And I was like, okay, it seems interesting. I'll try to put a little more effort. If it goes, it goes. If it doesn't, it doesn't, it's fine. And it did.

[Interviewer]

Starting to have lots of things thoughts now. I'm, I would say almost the opposite of you notice, but I think a lot of similarities. But in the respect that I'm a big grabber, I think I can change it. I'm going to do it now. Nothing's ever going to come to me. I'm going to have to like, forge my own paths. The good thing about that is that I've made lots of things happen that wouldn't normally be. However, once you're off that mindset of like, could try and grab this, could try and go this, could try and change this. It is like certain infection. It gets in you, like, it becomes you. And you're not as good at doing what you're doing before I interrupted you of just looking at the world and being part of things, you know, and they're two very different ways of being. I'm trying to say to you, why don't you come over to my side? And you're saying, you know, which is what the problem we have as humans, it's like we always think, you know, every man's in love with his own ideas. Right. It's like. Or every person's in love with their own actually. Maybe it is a man thing anyway, but kind of like I want everyone to be doing what I'm doing, which is also a folly. And for you to suddenly start being a kind of grabby person and shooting for this opportunity here and here and here is kind of taking you away from who you are as well. It would threaten your whole state of being.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Which is a lot, right?

[Interviewee]

Yeah. I mean, the thing I would say to the chasers is that the chase is never ending and you never get there. That's what I kind of lesson for the chasers.

[Interviewer]

You never get there. I like it.

[Interviewee]

And then maybe stopping and realizing that maybe you already have it all. It's fine.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, but the chase is quite like a chase, you know. But then of course, you're always chasing.

[Interviewee]

Yeah. You know, there is always something lacking.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I'm totally sold on your way of being. I think part of me would love to have both, you know, again, that's the chaser talking. The chaser versus the non chaser. That's what's happening here.

[Interviewee]

Yeah,

[Interviewer]

I think. Do you think there's a way. Okay, coming with you. Another problem.

[Interviewee]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

So stranger knock on the door. The stranger again. Can I just dock on as well with my problems now? From now on?

[Interviewee]

I know, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Fantastic. Would you prefer a knock or an email?

[Interviewee]

Both are fine.

[Interviewer]

Both are fine. Of course they are. Of course they're fine. Sorry, what am I saying? Yes. Knock on the door and I say, look, do you think me as a self confessed chaser can become like you, a self confessed non chaser? And if I can do that, what are the steps to becoming a non chaser?

[Interviewee]

I mean, I go back to what I said on knowing yourself, knowing why you think you lack and why you search and why you chase. And whether that makes sense or it doesn't make sense. Again, it's very difficult for me to say that there is one way to do it because everyone has different ways to do it. I don't know. I think to me that some of that came from just. Just stopping and thinking and thinking while stopping.

[Interviewer]

More thinking.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How do you stop though? Benches.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I mean that's what they're there for.

[Interviewee]

Yeah, I guess some of that. Or like you chase things, you don't get them, you suffer. I guess those are sometimes moments where you're more susceptible to Start questioning why. Why is the chase so important? I think that in my case, it's also been a lot of Latin American music, musica de protesta, like Silvio Rodriguez, Facundo Cabral, which are. They advocated for all of this. Like, stop chasing. You already have everything. And there are like tons of music, art books, poetry that talk about this. Like all of major philosophy movements and even religious ones talk about this. In my case, a little bit of poetry, like Sufism has been really useful to stop and reflect why I'm chasing things when I already have all of this. That's something that others can help you do, like art, because it's something that is very difficult to transmit through words and through language. And somehow artists tend to just find those ways in which they can touch you and make you realize it. But you have to be open to accept it.

[Interviewer]

What's your. Do you have an art that you like to practice?

[Interviewee]

I like photography. Whenever I'm like, walking and I find something I like, I just take a photograph.

[Interviewer]

Do you have a photograph that means more to you than another photograph?

[Interviewee]

All of them.

[Interviewer]

Ah, of course, of course. I can start repeating your answers now. There must be one. There must be one. I'll push you. No, one of you and your girlfriend. What about the cats? There must be a picture of the cats that you like. Little collage, Was it mini pirate, small pirate?

[Interviewee]

Small pirate, Small pirate.

[Interviewer]

Have you ever wanted to be a pirate?

[Interviewee]

I'm a little bit of a pirate.

[Interviewer]

Are you? Have you been a pirate? Being on the high seas, I mean.

[Interviewee]

I guess what I mean is a little pirate is somewhat. That goes against the state. Right. There are pirates that had good reasons to be pirates.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

And then disobeying and for the right causes can make you a pirate. A symbolic pirate.

[Interviewer]

Yes. You are a little pirate.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Not a big one.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can you think of a way that you do disobey the state? You know, the structure of all that?

[Interviewee]

Yeah. I think a good example of, like, beaches are public beaches. Yeah. Yeah. Like, they're not private property.

[Interviewer]

I'm guessing you're talking about Mexican beaches.

[Interviewee]

Yeah, I mean, like Mexico and Puerto Rico and like so many different places. Going against that, going against beaches being privatized is a good way of piracy.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

I think there are lots of movements in housing and things like that. It's like, deserve a place to live. And going against speculation, using houses as just assets. In other words, squatting can be a good act of piracy for the right reasons.

[Interviewer]

Yes. You mentioned about beaches and there should be no Private ones. When you see a private beach, what do you. How.

[Interviewee]

What do you do?

[Interviewer]

Just go. Just go on it?

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Swim in those seas. I. I was going to ask you before about your general mindset and your way of being and modern technology. You know, like, for instance, I can't now, having spoken to you, for one. I can't imagine you with a phone. I can't really imagine you sending a text. Like, can you talk to me about your relationships with these things?

[Interviewee]

In terms of technology, I think it's just useful. It's just a thing. It serves a good purpose when it helps you or helps someone. Obviously technology has got to a place where it's not just serving you, it's serving others that you sometimes don't even know who they are. And you have to just stay away from that. Right. I just tend to think of the Internet as. How was I thinking? Like a gigantic tourist trap. Trap.

[Interviewer]

Tourist trap.

[Interviewee]

Got it. Yes. So, like, you know, it's just this marketplace of everyone trying to sell you something, whether it's an object or whether it's an idea, whether it's something they want to push on you. So you just stay away from them. Right. Like when you go to a place and like you try to stay away from tourist traps. I think to think of the same when, when it comes to the Internet and social media and all of that. That doesn't mean that that marketplace doesn't have things of value. Right. So it's a little bit of trying to find which places of the Internet aren't tourist traps.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Interviewee]

I think I need to go.

[Interviewer]

That's okay. Yeah. Where are you going? Somewhere fun?

[Interviewee]

Yeah, I'm going with my girlfriend to have lunch.

[Interviewer]

Perfect.

[Interviewee]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's the perfect way. How have you found the experience of talking to a stranger on a bench?

[Interviewee]

It's been amazing, just talking with everyone when there are no expectations and just talking, no calculations of what this person wants, what I want from that. There is no transactionality in this, which is good.

[Interviewer]

That's beautifully put. Well, I've really enjoyed talking to you. This one being very thought provoking. I always end these things while asking, what are you going to do next? But I kind of already know you're going to go and have girlfriend. Have girlfriend. Sorry, not girlfriend. Lunch with your girlfriend and. Yeah. How do you want to end this? What do we do?

[Interviewee]

Just leave?

[Interviewer]

We just leave. That's exactly what we do. Perfect.

[Poet/Narrator]

I dreamt of light, a granulated palm of it being poured into the water. I've dreamt before but not like this. As usual, I head out for a day of swimming. Others are here too, houring their hands into the waves. A life of chasing anything of currency. For too long I've revelled in the exhaustion of movement, in the dance of doing, of doing, doing. I'm always yearning to be done, but it never ends. At the tip of an end, I discover more to be done. I feel it, the usual current that arrives in the stretch of the day. A slice of toast crumbles in my stomach. My habit is to push past it, to continue chasing the brightness of a lighthouse, to call it hard work. The dream returns to me again and my chest breathes open. A possibility. I stop gently. I turn to float on my back, a back ironed by boiled hours of time. The water feels calmer now. How surprising, how tender. And oh sky, what a sight to behold. Your floating foams of milk. Forgive my forgetting of you. The small seconds that slipped into busyness. Light arrives loud as birds. It seems something to me. It tells me that the sand castles I've spent years building, they need a window, a space for peace and laughter and stillness, to ripple in.

[Interviewee]

Sa.