EPISODE 88: Feels Like We're Untouchable

Summary

Strangers on a Bench – EPISODE 88: Feels Like We're Untouchable

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Release Date: May 18, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this engaging and deeply human conversation, Tom Rosenthal sits beside a stranger on a park bench—a recurring structure for the series—inviting organic, open talk about life’s unexpected turns. The guest, choosing to remain anonymous as is tradition, reflects on a year marked by upheaval: relationship endings, career and health crises, and a harrowing medical incident in Australia. Their exchange unpacks themes of resilience, the randomness of existence, living with chronic illness, and the liberating moments of feeling “untouchable.” Humor, honesty, and empathy thread throughout the episode, offering both lightness and poignancy.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Year That Changed Everything (01:29–10:23)

• Guest's ‘Fresh Start’
  The conversation begins with the guest admitting they’re mid-“fresh start,” following a sequence of major life events:
  • A breakup from a four-year relationship after moving in together.
  • Starting an intense new job, moving back in with parents after a decade.
  • A deterioration in health, requiring surgery.
  • Getting fired from said job soon after surgery.
  • “It was actually blessing in disguise, to be honest.” (03:07, Guest)
• Medical Emergency in Australia
  During travels to visit friends and recover, the guest collapsed while on a rainforest tour in remote Australia due to toxins reaching their brain, resulting in three weeks of hospitalization:
  • “I woke up and I was in an ambulance in a hospital in the middle of nowhere because apparently I’d collapsed. A load of toxins had, like, gone to my brain from my liver.” (03:10, Guest)
  • Medical staff and relative strangers (new travel friends) stepped up with kindness and care.
• Reflections on Randomness and Fragility
  • “Anything can happen, I guess in a good way and a bad way because you never really know…One minute your life can look like this, next minute it can be completely different.” (08:54, Guest)

2. Living with Cystic Fibrosis (CF) and Diabetes (10:48–16:44)

• Diagnosed From Birth, Learning Survival
  • The guest explains the science of CF: “A genetic condition…controls the transport of water and salt in and out of your cells... can cause infections to set in which can then cause scarring.” (11:29, Guest)
  • The impact is wide-ranging: lungs, digestive system, liver, even diabetes.
  • Major advances: “A new genetic drug recently…literally don’t cough at all…haven’t been in at all in the last five years.” (12:33, Guest)
• Living in a Medical ‘Guinea Pig’ Era
  • “They just don’t know because they’ve never had patients at this age or with these new conditions before.” (14:39, Guest)
• Social & Emotional Effects
  • Not being able to socialize with others with CF due to cross-infection risk: “It’s like something in a sci-fi novel.” (16:26, Interviewer)

3. Identity, Resilience & Finding Positives (18:59–22:35)

• Coping and Comparisons
  • Guest describes feeling isolated as a teenager, “pretended it didn’t exist in order to fit in more.” (17:44, Guest)
• Top 3 Positives of Having CF
  • Eat anything: “We have to eat a lot of fatty foods…so I can literally eat anything I want.” (19:56, Guest)
  • Resilience: “It makes you be able to get through anything. Yeah. Come at me.” (21:07, Guest)
  • Empathy: “You just come into contact with people that you wouldn’t normally…It just makes your life a bit more enriched.” (21:35, Guest)
  • Tom echoes: “There’s nothing cheesy about empathy. No, it’s pure.” (22:25, Interviewer)

4. Chronic Illness & Relationships (28:20–29:41)

• Romantic Relationships’ Challenges
  • “People can become overwhelmed… I want people to see me as a person first… but neither ignoring it nor making it the center is healthy.”
  • “In some ways it kind of helps you root out the bad ones and the good ones.” (29:41, Guest)
• Disclosure and the Realities of Medications
  • Prefers to share illness details early with potential partners.
  • Daily routine includes taking roughly 50 pills a day for various conditions: “I have like a massive box. Like literally…like a little chemist supply.” (30:47, Guest)

5. On Freedom and Passions (35:22–38:50)

• Can You Ever Fully ‘Let Go’?
  • “There’s always that element of having to just watch out for things in the back of your head.” (35:47, Guest)
  • Theatre provides an escape: “When you’re so engrossed in a passion or hobby that you almost forget about things…That could be something that’s really freeing and amazing.” (36:09, Guest)
• Imaginative Exercise
  • Tom asks what character the guest would play if they could live another life: they invent “Francois Loud,” a 6’5” bearded, active, loud, and—importantly—arrogant man, the opposite of themselves.

6. Looking Ahead: Dreams, Advice, and Reflections (41:33–52:52)

• Finding Purpose and Openness
  • Guest is “thinking more about the opportunities that are out there…you don’t have to live your life a certain way.” (41:49, Guest)
  • Dreams of starting or joining a theatre company that helps others share and process their experiences.
  • “You just have to just do stuff. Just go for it.” (44:12, Guest)
• Words of Wisdom
  • “Just grab everything you can and go for it.” (52:36, Guest)

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Memorable Quotes & Moments

• Perspective on Survival:
  “I think people compare themselves to their peers at that age anyway. And I think when I felt like I was so limited... it more became something that I was... I kind of buried it away and pretended it didn’t exist in order to fit in more.” (17:44, Guest)

• On the Odd Upside of Diet:
  “I can literally eat anything that I want. That’s a fun one.” (19:56, Guest)

• Empathy as a Superpower:
  “It just makes your life a bit more enriched, I guess, in those ways.” (21:35, Guest)

• On Letting Go in Theatre:
  “I remember just feeling like I could completely let go when I was playing a different character.” (36:47, Guest)

• On New Beginnings:
  “You’re never going to be able to predict. So... you’ve got to do what makes you happy, what you really feel is your passion…the journey is messy and it’s complicated, but that’s part of the fun of it.” (41:49, Guest)

• On Conversations:
  “Don’t be afraid of kind of going there or asking questions…people need to stop being so scared of offending somebody.” (26:11, Guest)

• Evocative Memory:
  The closing exercise: the guest describes a childhood scene in a tent, glowing fairy lights, scent of barbecue, echoing laughter, ending: “We just feel like we’re untouchable.” (46:38–49:22, Guest)

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Notable Segments & Timestamps

• The Tumultuous Year — 01:29–10:23
  Breakup, job change, illness, Australian hospital crisis
• Living with Illness — 10:48–16:44
  Science of CF, social isolation
• Resilience & Silver Linings — 18:59–22:35
  Three positives of chronic illness
• Dating & Illness — 28:20–29:41
  How chronic illness shapes relationships
• The Pill Box Routine — 30:32–35:11
  Exact rundown of medication day-to-day
• Moments of Freedom/Passion — 35:22-38:50
  Theatre as catharsis and the imaginary life of “Francois Loud”
• Looking to the Future — 41:33–52:52
  Dreams, advice, perspective post-crisis
• Childhood Memory Visualization — 46:11–49:22
  Poetic, sensory memory “untouchable” moment
• Final Reflections — 50:01–52:52
  Lessons learned, hope for the future

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Tone & Style

• Natural, free-flowing and humorous, despite serious topics.
• Deeply honest, self-aware, and gently probing.
• Tom’s warmth and candor help the guest open up, leading to moments of laughter amid life’s challenges.

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Summary

This episode is both moving and hopeful, centering on the unpredictability of life and the strength found in vulnerability, connection, and humor. The guest’s story is a testament to resilience—the ability to find meaning, connection, and even joy amid hardship. Reflections on chronic illness, trauma, and reinvention become universal meditations on how to appreciate life, empathize with others, and chase dreams, regardless of the messiness.

“Just grab everything you can and go for it.” (52:36, Guest)

This is Strangers on a Bench at its finest: ordinary lives, extraordinary depth, and fleeting moments of feeling “untouchable.”

Transcript

[Interviewer]

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. Exciting life, isn't it? Yeah, anything can happen. I mean, it's absolutely mad. You ready for the first question?

[Guest]

Yeah, I'm ready.

[Interviewer]

Is there a day of the week that you favor?

[Guest]

Oh, that's a tricky one. I'd say probably Fridays. Just gets the end of the work week. You've got a weekend to look forward to. You might have some plans. It's a tricky one though, because.

[Interviewer]

Contenders. Yeah, what's the other contenders in every Friday.

[Guest]

It's a bit of a weird one, but I'd probably say Monday. I guess it's like a fresh start to the week, like whatever's happened, chance to go into the week fresh.

[Interviewer]

When did you last need a fresh start?

[Guest]

God, I'd say probably at the moment, actually, I'm going through a bit of a fresh start, really. There's been a few things that have happened over the last year or so, which my life was looking one way and it's just completely changed in every aspect. So I'm kind of seeking a new start, maybe. Really? Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can I ask what flipped it? Should we just go straight there?

[Guest]

What flipped it?

[Interviewer]

Yeah, you know what, the events that led to the change.

[Guest]

Well, going back to the start, yes. Had a breakup, broke up with an ex, which we were together for about four years. We just moved in together and I made the decision to break up. But that was quite a difficult thing at the time, of course. And then a month after that I started a new job, which was amazing but also very intense. It was like a lot of pressure. I was still feeling really kind of hurt from the relationship ending and everything. Plus I had to move out of my flat because we shared a flat together. Move back in with my parents, actually, which I haven't done for like 10 years. And then about six months after that I had some pretty bad health issues I was going through. I had to have some surgery. So I've got a few, like long term health conditions. And I also then got fired from the job like a week later after the surgery, which was really, really shit.

[Interviewer]

What have you done to them?

[Guest]

Why did you so badly? To be honest, it wasn't really the right place for me anyway. Like, I think it was actually blessing in disguise, to be honest. And then after that, my health kind of Deteriorated a bit more because of

[Interviewer]

the surgeries or because of the job? Just a general situation, I mean.

[Guest]

No, just like the surgeries and stuff. Yeah. And then I've got a couple of friends, actually, that live out in Australia, and I was gonna go and spend, like, New Year with them anyway. And when I was out there, I thought, actually, I've got a bit of time on my hands, why not just extend it for a bit? So, yeah, I did that. Had a really great time with them. I was doing this, like, tour of the east coast, but in, like, kind of like a day into the tour, we were doing this, like, rainforest tour. And the next thing I woke up and I was in an ambulance in a hospital in the middle of nowhere because apparently I'd collapsed, A load of toxins had, like, gone to my brain from my liver. And I spent about three weeks in

[Interviewer]

a hospital in just around a bit of Australia.

[Guest]

It was a really remote place. Place you have to, like, go over a gorge to get there. Like, it's really, really remote. It's the place that could have happened.

[Interviewer]

It's okay. See how you woke up in this? As in you opened your eyes and, like. And you're like, where am I?

[Guest]

Yeah. It was actually terrifying because I was like. I had no recollection of any of this. The last thing I remember was being in a rainforest.

[Interviewer]

Lovely rainforest. And then hospital.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Who told you? I mean, when you open your eyes with someone kind of near, but, you know, who did you go to?

[Guest]

It's still a bit of a blur, actually. Quite a lot of it. But there was someone next to me. I remember this nurse who was next to me and I can't really remember. I think I was just spouting absolute crap to her. But then, yeah, I was transferred to, like, a more major hospital where they had, like, specialist equipment and everything. And, yeah, I think I didn't really realise kind of what had happened until, like, a week in.

[Interviewer]

This wasn't brought on by the rainforest in any way.

[Guest]

Like, they still don't really know why it happened, actually.

[Interviewer]

It wasn't some kind of poisonous frog or something.

[Guest]

They were only looking for that. They were looking if I got bitten by anything or.

[Interviewer]

I mean, there's always a chance.

[Guest]

Yeah. But apparently not. I think it was maybe a mixture of, like, dehydration, the heat.

[Interviewer]

Plus the frog's more exciting.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I think you should just say the frog.

[Guest]

Yeah. But, yeah, it was only kind of like looking back over reports afterwards that I realized what had happened, really, because apparently, like, the tour guide had to drive me to the ambulance because it was like really stormy. I think they were trying to get a helicopter out, but the helicopter couldn't get through the storm. So he actually drove me in the tour bus, meet the ambulance. And then they had to drive over this ferry crossing to this, like little facility in the middle of nowhere.

[Interviewer]

And you were just none the wise. So you were just Lights out.

[Guest]

I had absolutely no idea your friend

[Interviewer]

was there at the time. The only one there at the time.

[Guest]

I did have a friend with me. Yeah. But I was apparently doing really strange things. Like I think I tried to like drink out of my phone at one point. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, my God. Whoa. Okay, right.

[Guest]

This all happened in Feb. Oh, so

[Interviewer]

this has just happened?

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see. Sorry. Right. The hospital stays at the end of this line of events.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay. So it's recent.

[Guest]

I had to get repatriated back here, actually. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Repatriated, I feel like, is a word they only use when someone's dead.

[Guest]

When they said repatriated, I was like, am I dead?

[Background Singer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Am I dreaming this?

[Interviewer]

So are you in three weeks in the remote hospital or one week and then you got moved to one week

[Guest]

in the remote one and then I got moved to a main one in Cairns.

[Interviewer]

And when you were in the remote hospital, you literally had no idea what was going on?

[Guest]

No idea at all. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Your friend was there.

[Guest]

They were there. Yeah. But to be fair, actually it was only a friend that I made like out there on the trip, so it wasn't even somebody that I knew really.

[Interviewer]

So they've gone real deep end stuff there. As a new friend.

[Guest]

I know. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And take me to hospital across. Across. Across tiny bridges in a storm and stay with me for a week.

[Guest]

Everyone was amazing on that because I only knew them for a few days before this happened, so they didn't really know me properly, which is crazy. It's like the kindness of strangers. Really, Like. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Did your friend know anything about your, like, existing conditions?

[Guest]

Kind of briefly. We kind of briefly spoke about it. Not really.

[Interviewer]

Enough to say something to someone, right?

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

And this was completely surprising, this event happening. There was no complete shock. Is there anything that still remains a mystery, as in. In terms of, like, competing altogether?

[Guest]

It's weird because apparently, like, I'd done like a full seven hours of the day. They were literally showing me pictures where I was, like, eating dinner and, like doing other things and I'm like, I literally have no recollection of that at all. It's so weird seeing yourself in a picture which you can't. You have no idea about.

[Interviewer]

Did you look happy in the pictures?

[Guest]

Yeah, I look really happy, actually. I looked at the time, I was

[Interviewer]

like, yeah, she was happy then. Then suddenly just dropped.

[Guest]

I think they could kind of been building up slowly throughout the day because they said I was shaking a little bit, like my hands were tremoring a bit. And they. I think someone thought I was a bit anxious or something or whatever and then getting a little bit confused, acting a little bit erratic, kind of wandering off by myself back into the rainforest because I could have just ended up in the middle of nowher.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I suppose.

[Background Singer]

What.

[Interviewer]

We're only a couple of months out from this event, right? Yeah, yeah, we're not that far off from it happening. What has this event meant to you?

[Guest]

It's kind of confusing because they don't really know why it happened. But I've seen like doctors since I've been back here. Yeah. They're not really sure what to make of it either. They've put me on some medicine and they said they're gonna reassess in like three months time. But I guess it kind of. It's kind of made me think anything can happen, I guess in a good way and a bad way because it's like you never really know what. What is going to happen completely. And like one minute your life can look like this, the next minute it can be completely different in the space of few hours. It kind of in some ways has made me think, I just want to try and do as many things as I can really.

[Interviewer]

Like with your existence ever on the line. I was obviously they were pretty keen to get exhaustible, but I mean, were they stressed at any point?

[Guest]

I think the main thing was because they looked. We couldn't get through in the storm. They were like, if we leave this any longer, like you're just getting worse. Like this thing is called hepatic encephalopy when the toxins go to your brain. So apparently if they leave it kind of untreated for long enough, like you can. It can eat like a coma and then even like death after that. I mean, that's rare because they normally catch it before that. But yeah, I think it could potentially have been like pretty serious.

[Interviewer]

So you've landed back with that and it's just added to the mystery moment of your life now where anything is kind of possible. Look at the randomness of existence and what can happen.

[Guest]

Yeah, it really has made me think that, to be honest, in a Lot of ways.

[Interviewer]

So many questions for you. I'm just getting them in order. Maybe you can let me know which one I should approach first. I'm tempted both by your long term health conditions. I have one. Will I. We can do a high five moment. And also the boyfriend.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Which one would you prefer to talk about initially?

[Guest]

If we're on the track with health, should we continue with that one?

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Perfect, perfect. So from, from birth, from a certain point. How long have these conditions been in your life?

[Guest]

So I've got a cystic fibrosis and that was from birth. It's a genetic condition. And initially like when I was born, people didn't really live beyond age, like 12, I'd say how.

[Interviewer]

When you were born?

[Guest]

When I was born, which was in the late 90s. So it was traditionally like a really life limiting illness. But the main thing with it is the. This is quite scientific now. So it's okay.

[Interviewer]

Science is good.

[Guest]

Yeah. Basically like the membrane of your cells, there's like a gene or a protein that controls the transport of water and salt in and out of your cells. And if that balance is affected, you can get like a layer of mucus on the outside of cells. And if that is not cleared, it can cause infections to set in which can then cause scarring. And that can affect multiple organs because if they're all scarred and blocked and can't work properly, that can kind of lead to really bad damage across your whole body. So traditionally it always kind of affected the lungs, but it also, it can affect the digestive system as well. And now as people are getting older with it, they're realizing it can. We can even get a form of diabetes which is related to that and like liver issues as well. And I used to be pretty bad with my lungs, but there's been a new genetic drug recently which has come out which is not a cure, but it helps to like correct the gene or the protein in a way that makes the symptoms less severe and stuff. And it's honestly been amazing. My lungs used to be so bad growing up. But in the last six or five years, I think since I've been on the drug, I literally don't cough at all. I used to be in and out for like IV antibiotics all the time. Haven't been in at all in the last five years. So that's literally been an amazing, amazing drug. But then obviously it's still there affecting other parts of the body, so like the liver or the digestive system. So I guess my health condition is all kind of linked to that one initial illness.

[Interviewer]

So you are long dead in any other time in history, basically.

[Guest]

Yeah, basically I wouldn't really be here today.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, well, you know, God bless modern medicine.

[Guest]

Yeah. Honestly,

[Interviewer]

The obvious. Sorry, I was going to ask you, like, what is your future? What is your future like with this?

[Guest]

To be honest, it's really unpredictable. I don't really know because there's more treatments coming out all the time. I mean a lot of people with this condition like live well into their 50s or 60s now or beyond. So yeah, I'm pretty certain that I'll have like a really long and healthy life. I think it just takes a lot more adjustments. But obviously then sometimes things can crop up like with my liver, like I didn't expect it to kind of deteriorate in the way that it has, but then again there's like fixes for that. So to be honest, it looks pretty good. But I think also because people did used to die quite young, it's also kind of a guinea pig moment as well. Like they don't really know a lot of.

[Interviewer]

They don't know it's quite possible yet.

[Guest]

Yes, they're trying things that they've never tried before because they've never had patients at this age or with these new conditions before. So yeah, it's kind of a mix of all of that. But I think in general, like it's never been a thing that's really concerned me. Like unless something drastically changes.

[Interviewer]

Unless you spend too much time in rainfall.

[Guest]

Exactly. Unless I go back and have another look.

[Interviewer]

That's the fog gets you again.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So what does this do to you? I mean as a kid with this. What does it do to a kid to have and the way your parents parent you to have this condition.

[Guest]

So I think to be quite honest, for me as a young kid, below age 9 or something, the symptoms that I had weren't as severe. It was only more when I got into my teenage years that they started to have a bit more of an impact. But I think a lot of how I see it has kind of been influenced by my parents. Like I think they've actually been really great at being like, because you have this, we're not going to limit you in any way or not be able to have the same type of life as your friends or other kids. We want you to try and do everything that you possibly can. It might take a bit more planning, it might take a bit more forward thinking or whatever, but it doesn't mean that you can't do it. But I think especially in my teenage years when I was getting a bit more ill, you do naturally have points where you're like, oh, why me? If all my friends are doing this and that and I have to miss out because of being in hospital and no one else can really relate in the same way. It can sometimes be quite isolating, I think as well. With this condition you're not allowed to meet people with the same thing because of cross infection. Like you can pick up infections from each other.

[Interviewer]

What, really?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you're not allowed to meet people with the same thing. It's like something in a sci fi novel or something. Yeah, Hang on. But how are you to know?

[Guest]

Well, that's the thing, like I guess I could have passed by Massive Badge every day. Massive Badge. Massive Badge flashlight. I mean, yeah,

[Interviewer]

as you can't see but obviously, I mean you can talk to them in a digital sense.

[Guest]

Yeah, digital. So I mean obviously it's not like a rule like you can do whatever you want with your life, but it basically is you shouldn't do that. So I've never really known someone with the same thing as me that I've been able to spend time with. Which yes, it's hard as well because like as much as other people can sympathise and empathize, it's not quite the same sometimes as of course someone that's. Oh, there's no been through stuff as well.

[Interviewer]

There's no substitute for someone having the same thing. You ask yourself, like at some point you ask yourself, why me?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Did you ever think of an answer for that? Did any part of you want to forge a reason for it happening? I mean, some things you've told yourself,

[Guest]

I guess that's a difficult one. I guess a lot of the time I kind of just focused on survival. That sounds a bit weird, but like just focus on kind of surviving the like each difficult surgery or hospital stay or whatever and getting through it and then kind of reflecting back on it and being like, yeah, maybe I just have to be just a resilient person and that's why this has happened. Or. Yeah, not really. It's kind of a difficult, difficult one because I think people compare themselves to their peers at that age anyway. And I think when I felt like I was so limited a lot of the time in comparison to others, it more became something that I was. It was like I kind of buried it away and pretended it didn't exist in order to fit in more and yeah, pretend that I was. I didn't have, have this Condition, I think. But I think since then a very different outlook on that. And yeah, very good support system. Healthy strategies of coping with it now. So. But yeah, I think it was. It was more just frustration and anger and like sadness at that time, I think in relation to that.

[Interviewer]

Another weird question for you. I quite like when thinking about my own particular condition. Mine's not as bad as yours, but I've type 1 diabetes.

[Guest]

Okay. I have diabetes too.

[Interviewer]

Oh, great. You know, obviously the negatives are obvious, right?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But there are some odd positives to be drawn. I can say for myself what they are. But can you think of like, things you generally think have been kind of positives or useful, things that you've learned through this thing? Is it. You'd be sad, you know, if I kind of rid you of any ailments whatsoever and you're totally healthy, but. Oh, I've lost an element of myself.

[Guest]

Yeah, I think you definitely. Yeah, I can definitely think of things that I have learned that I wouldn't have known about or wouldn't have been able to. Yeah. To gain from that if I hadn't had that. You're right. I think there are a lot of positives actually too.

[Interviewer]

What are your key. Let's do the top three.

[Guest]

Top three positives.

[Interviewer]

The top three positives.

[Guest]

I would say actually with CF it's weird because we have to eat a lot of like fatty foods cuz we struggle to put on weight. So I can literally eat anything that I want.

[Interviewer]

That's a fun one.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Does that mean like dinner time looks funny for you? What do you have for breakfast?

[Guest]

Bit boring, actually. I'm kind of a cereal person, but I'd put like full fat milk with it. Like maybe have a hot chocolate.

[Interviewer]

That's the only milk to have anyway.

[Guest]

Yeah, exactly.

[Interviewer]

Who are the other.

[Guest]

You would have skimmed milk. It should just be. They should be taken away with completely.

[Interviewer]

Give it a stern talking to. I'm sure the skimmed milk brigade will have their.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Have their say. Sorry. Right. Breakfast.

[Guest]

Top three.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Top three. So first you can eat what you want.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is that a three coming in hot at three?

[Guest]

Yeah, I'd say two would be, I think very resilient. Like it makes you be able to get through anything. Yeah. Come at me. I can handle anything. If I can handle this whole milk

[Interviewer]

for breakfast, I can do anything. Yeah, you can handle anything.

[Guest]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

Like a breakup. Is that what you said when you were breaking up with Vivison?

[Guest]

I should have done, actually.

[Interviewer]

I can add anything. Bye. Okay, so resilient That's a good one.

[Guest]

Resilient. Number one.

[Interviewer]

Number one.

[Guest]

Oh, pressure's on for number one.

[Interviewer]

Take your time. No rush.

[Guest]

It's a bit of a cheesy one, but I'd say it makes you. Look at people in situations and handle things, like, really well. And I think you have a lot more empathy for different types of people and you see different situations and scenarios. And I guess, like, you meet a lot of different people because of that, like nurses, doctors, like patients. You just come into contact with people that you wouldn't normally come into contact with if you didn't have these things. And it makes you understand more about the way some parts of the world work and, like, different people and cultures and. Yeah, it just makes your life a bit more enriched, I guess, in those ways.

[Interviewer]

I don't think that's cheesy at all. There's nothing cheesy about empathy.

[Guest]

No,

[Interviewer]

it's pure. And actually, I would also put that as my number one as well.

[Guest]

Would you?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

What would be your number two and three?

[Interviewer]

Oh, God. Well, it's not. I can eat everything. That's. That. That's. That's the one opposite, sadly. Okay, so number one is empathy. Number three for me would be to not take things as seriously. I mean, life is a fast. Anyway, when I was in hospital, like, I kind of, you know, long story short, you know, I came very close to, what's it called, ketosis, where, you know, you just get into a coma and you're dead, basically. Or at least, you know, you come quite close to it. And I just basically caught it really late, and I was in hospital for a few days. It was all pretty intense. But really, what the key thing that I was thinking, I was like, this is so ridiculous. Life is so weird. Suddenly I'm just, like, surrounded by these people, I don't know, putting various drips and things into me and lines into me.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I'm like, what's. Like, what is this? And now I've got to, you know, I've got to keep myself alive by having, like, jelly babies. Jelly babies are the things that keep me alive. I mean, that's. That. It's just like. I mean, it's just the mind boggles, really. It's like, obviously not a real thing, but of course it is a real thing.

[Guest]

Yeah, but it really makes you think what's important in act, Isn't it something like that? Like you said, crazy in so many ways. When you see general life and people getting upset about tiny little things and you're like, it's irrelevant, you know.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that's definitely up there in the top three. And then otherwise. What's otherwise? I gotta say, with my one, it was you keep yourself alive every day. As in you perform tasks to keep yourself alive.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I think there's something interesting in that. Like it's a kind of day to day living, in a sense.

[Guest]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And you just live in the day and that's a bit magical. You know, it's impossible to get too carried away with anything really, when you've got to do that every day.

[Guest]

Yeah. It's such an important job.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So. Yeah, so that's probably up there, I think.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's. I might think of others.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, there's so many things you like that are good to get out of. I feel like if you've been dealt that card, like, you may as well use it to just get out of stuff. I mean, not all the time. I never feel guilty, not for the tiniest of milliseconds to use it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Like the least I deserve is to be able to use it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Plus, like tiny advantages here and there, you know what I mean?

[Guest]

Exactly. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

When was the last thing you excused yourself from?

[Guest]

Oh, God, I really can't think.

[Interviewer]

You know, it's all right. Yeah, maybe. Maybe you're an absolute saint.

[Guest]

No, I'm not.

[Interviewer]

He's endured. He's endured everything through and through. I'll go to the bitter end, I'm guessing, you know, you're human, so you must talk to plenty of people in your life, talking about your condition at some point.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What would you wish people would know about your experience of it or in terms of talking to you about it? What would you wish they knew that would help them, you know, if they were talking to someone else with such experiences?

[Guest]

I think I would say, like, don't be afraid of kind of going there or like asking questions, because I think sometimes people. I don't want to ask you this in case it makes you upset or in case, you know, I don't want to, like, say the wrong thing or something. And I think people need to stop being so scared of offending somebody. Obviously, like, no one's obliged to answer questions about their health that they don't want to. But I think as well, like, they

[Interviewer]

can also say that. Right.

[Guest]

Yeah. But I think, like, some people tend to tiptoe around it and I think you don't need to do that because I feel comfortable, very comfortable talking about it. And I think it just Naturally leads to like, you know, closer friendships or relationships so you can share things and you don't have to have an invisible kind of barrier there, I guess. And I guess this maybe goes for like illnesses or chronic illnesses in general, but like, sometimes people might not look ill, whatever ill looks like, but you don't know, kind of know what they're going through underneath it. Also, when someone tells you if they feel like this, like, believe them and like they're not making excuses and then. Well, maybe in your case. But you know, people do go through a lot of things with these conditions and stuff.

[Interviewer]

Good answer. I think as you were talking, that people think it's a risk to ask certain questions of people who have a condition or whatever. But like one, I think it's never as risky as they think it is. Yeah, but the reward and what you can give the other person and the feeling of being seen or understood is huge.

[Guest]

No, I 100 agree with you on that because that can, yeah, really make someone's day or like you said, help them to feel seen or understood in a certain period when they might really need it.

[Interviewer]

How's it worked for you? And relationships as in romantic ones, I mean, what. What impact has it had? Or maybe it hasn't any, but like

[Guest]

what I think, yeah, it definitely has had impact on relationships. The majority of people have been very understanding and like tried to be supportive, but I do think with my things, because it is. Well, there's quite a lot of different things happening. Like, I think people can become overwhelmed like I've always been. I want people to see me as a person first. And like this condition is just hits a part of me, of course, but it doesn't like, define me. And I think people either go down one track to either it just ignoring it and pretending it's not there because they don't want to feel the pain from that or see me in hospital or whatever. So they just ignored it and just pushed it away. Or they've kind of gone the other way where it's stressing about everything and like that's kind of become the main focus. So I think neither of those extremes are healthy. And also I guess in some ways it kind of helps you root out the bad ones and the good ones because it's like, well, you know, if you can't handle this or don't want to, if you embarrassed by it or whatever, then bye completely. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

If you're on some kind of dating experience, like how quickly you're getting it out and, you know, the information

[Guest]

I think I like to kind of try to talk about it sooner rather than later because obviously I want someone to get to know me as me first. But then also so I, you know, it's not like something I just want to say like the first thing I meet somebody, but very first thing. Yeah, but, but normally I think people kind of naturally know about it before then anyway because like I have to take like enzymes whenever I eat and stuff. So you know, I'll take them but I won't really make, you know, I don't make a big deal about it or like they might see.

[Interviewer]

So what are they? Is it just in pill form?

[Guest]

Just, just pills? Yeah. I take three.

[Interviewer]

And like how many pills you got to take every day?

[Guest]

About 50.

[Interviewer]

50.

[Guest]

50? Yeah. Loads of different.

[Interviewer]

Five zero five zero.

[Guest]

I can.

[Interviewer]

Crikey.

[Guest]

Yeah. Hand voice.

[Interviewer]

Where do you put all those? Do you just have a massive pill store in your house?

[Guest]

Oh, I have like a massive box. Like literally like, you know, if you were like moving house, you got like a cardboard box kind of like that size, like a little chemist supply that I've got. Pharmacist.

[Interviewer]

I met someone the other day, a 75 year old who's just old and just had loads of health stuff. He had to take 32 a day and I thought that was a lot.

[Guest]

But 50, if you're talking about the different types of ones or the actual amount of pills themselves. Yes, like 50 pills, but then about 12 different types.

[Interviewer]

12 types. Oh my God. Now we're here with the pills. I mean, let's just do it. Tell me exactly in whatever way you would like your kind of pill day.

[Guest]

Pill day. Okay.

[Interviewer]

What is a pill? Full. Take me through the full 50 like of a day.

[Guest]

Of a day. Okay.

[Interviewer]

What time are we waking up?

[Guest]

Half eight. Eight.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you say you like a sleeper?

[Guest]

Yeah, I do like my sleep.

[Interviewer]

That's good. Yeah. So half eight. And how quickly are we pulling it up?

[Guest]

Well, I have them already set to go. Like I make them up in a little pill box. So that genetic drug I was talking about, it's called Caf Trio, that's the one.

[Interviewer]

I take how many of those?

[Guest]

Two of them. And then I take two of this one called, it's a really long name, this one, it's called a sodium acid, that's for my liver.

[Interviewer]

Two of those.

[Guest]

Two of those, yeah. And then I'd have one called a maprazole. That's quite a common one. So I take one of them, I take all the fat soluble vitamins because I can't digest them normally. So A, D, E and K. I take a diuretic called furosemide. I also take a steroid called prednisolone.

[Interviewer]

Respect for knowing all the names of these things.

[Guest]

Yeah. Ingrained in my head, like. Yeah. Like my DNA. Yeah. Then I take a new one actually, since the rainforest thing.

[Interviewer]

Funky new one.

[Guest]

Yeah. It's an interesting color, that one. So it's a nice bright purple, actually.

[Interviewer]

Funky.

[Guest]

It is quite funky.

[Interviewer]

It's out of interest. When was the last time you recited a pill day to somebody that wasn't a medical professional?

[Guest]

I actually don't know. This is the first time.

[Interviewer]

This is great. This is what a great, great, great day.

[Guest]

Around moments.

[Interviewer]

It's a first.

[Guest]

Okay, so where are your breakfast? Okay, so take enzymes with breakfast. With any kind of food, I take enzymes. So I take about seven of them, I'd say.

[Interviewer]

They can't just get that all in one pill. No, that's annoying.

[Guest]

It is annoying.

[Interviewer]

Maybe in the future there'll be one, you know.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Super pill. Super pill with just 50 in one.

[Guest]

Yeah, that'd be amazing. Someone could invent that. That would be great.

[Interviewer]

Shout out to the person who can invent that.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, I'd do anything.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay. So that's. That's. Is that breakfast done? Is that first pill event done?

[Guest]

Yeah, that's all done.

[Interviewer]

And then you can have a break. For how long? Until the next pill.

[Guest]

Like till lunch. Now, unless I wanted to eat any. If I had a snack.

[Interviewer]

Can you eat anything without the enzyme only?

[Guest]

Certainly doesn't have fat or protein in it. Protein or carbohydrate.

[Interviewer]

Sorry, what is that?

[Guest]

Fruit meat.

[Interviewer]

Right. Okay.

[Guest]

But then obviously I have diabetes too, so I'd have to inject with food. So I'd have that with high food as well.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Okay, so we're on to lunch.

[Guest]

So I take more enzymes with lunch, another seven or eight, depending on what I'm eating. And then if I have another snack in the afternoon, like a biscuit or whatever, take a couple of more enzymes, and then dinner, more enzymes. I'd also take that new fancy new drug, the refractory purple one. Yeah. I take the sodium acid again, the liver one, and the evening version of the genetic drug, which isn't called caf trio, it's called Color deco. That's one of them. And then I think that's it.

[Interviewer]

So that's roughly the day. Any. Any highlights there?

[Guest]

Maybe actually the morning when I just, like chuck them all in. It's like, that's a big Part of that all done. I've just.

[Interviewer]

Then you can crack on.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah. Maybe that's the pill highlight of the day.

[Interviewer]

Bay, didn't imagine saying that sentence earlier. No, actually, that's my pill highlight of the day with that. Thank you for taking me through your pill day.

[Guest]

You're welcome. Hope it was informative.

[Interviewer]

It definitely was. Maybe this is a bit of an unfair question to ask. Can you kind of fully let go ever? Can you think of a time, like, and if you can, can you think of a time when you felt, like, really just free or is there all. You know, essentially, there's always a limit there.

[Guest]

I think it very much depends on who I'm with and how much they know about me and where we are and the circumstances. Because there is also always that element of having to just watch out for things in the back of your head.

[Interviewer]

What are you typically doing when you feel closest to that moment?

[Guest]

I think doing things that I'm really passionate about. Like, I'm really into, like, theatre, do a bit of, like, I'm attracting and, like, I just love being, like, on stage performing. And I think that when you're so engrossed in a passion or hobby that you kind of almost forget about things, I think that's. That could be something that's really, really, really freeing and amazing. Yeah,

[Interviewer]

yeah. That makes a lot of sense. Theatre.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can you remember your first experience of theatre and why it drew you towards it?

[Guest]

I think when I was in secondary school and I was going through a bit of a rough patch with my help, and things just started to get a bit more serious. I was in a production at school and I remember just feeling like I could completely let go when I was playing a different character, exploring different things. And I think in some senses that helped me to kind of form an identity or explore things through another character, but about myself as well. I just felt on top of the world and, like, I was like, yeah, this is amazing. I love this. It was just that feeling of just being completely removed from the health conditions or whatever. And it could just be something completely different.

[Interviewer]

I think. I think it's a shame that you can't wake up tomorrow and just be a different character. Do you know what I mean? As in, like, imagine. Imagine for a week you'll be called this. This is going to be my backstory. And when I meet people, this is how I'm going to be.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And, like, enjoy. And, like, maybe this is absolutely mad, this idea, but, like, if that wasn't harmful for anyone like, if you met someone, I don't know, you went to the post office and you're just a different role, you know, different person, no harm to anyone. I always feel bad for anyone who enjoys that. Having to wait for all these opportunities.

[Background Singer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Where is there a way of not doing it in just real life?

[Guest]

That's true. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

To pass the time, what character would you. I mean, if within yourself. Let's imagine you had to do this. Who would you like to be who you are not?

[Guest]

I think I'd like to see what it'd be like to be someone with a completely different life of mine in every aspect. Just like the complete opposite of everything that I. Or even who had, like, completely different morals for me. And like, just someone that was so, so different. So I could actually, like, see exactly what the other. The complete opposite of me would be like.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Guest]

Just. Just because I think it'd be interesting.

[Interviewer]

What would that be? Like? What look, what look would you go for? What would you want? This character?

[Guest]

This character? Well, I guess.

[Interviewer]

What is the opposite of what you look like? Do you want to describe. Do you want to describe your general look?

[Guest]

A general look? Okay, well, I'm obviously very small, so

[Interviewer]

someone that's six, he's not obviously very small.

[Guest]

Oh, well, I mean to you, you know, but yeah, maybe like six, five.

[Interviewer]

Gender?

[Guest]

Male, maybe.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Face. What? The face. Doing kind of brutish, are we?

[Guest]

Just a bit of facial hair, I think.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Goatee or just full beard?

[Guest]

I'd go with full beard. Yeah, full beard. Like everything. Hair, Maybe bald.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Why not? Clothes,

[Guest]

Maybe quite active. I'm not really a sporty kind of person. Well, I. I like sport, but I'm not. I'm not like super, super active.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Guest]

So I'd say maybe someone that's. Yeah. Really, really fit and really into fitness.

[Interviewer]

They're gonna be really confused at this post office.

[Guest]

I know. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Hang on a minute. Jesus. Six foot five, small guy now.

[Guest]

Yeah. Maybe they'd be a bit

[Interviewer]

quite loud.

[Guest]

Yeah, I'd say maybe very, very loud.

[Interviewer]

Say very loud.

[Guest]

Yeah, just like a huge voice. Yeah. Hear them from miles away.

[Interviewer]

Should we finish this off with a name? Do you want a name?

[Guest]

Yeah. I don't know.

[Interviewer]

What are we calling this guy?

[Guest]

Why don't you finish off with a name?

[Interviewer]

Francois.

[Guest]

Francois. Yeah, that could work.

[Interviewer]

Francois Loud. Francois Loud.

[Guest]

Francois. I think Francois would be quite arrogant.

[Interviewer]

Does that mean you would like to be more arrogant?

[Guest]

Maybe sometimes, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Out of interest, just because you've named this type of person, is this the kind of person you're attracted to.

[Guest]

Oh, no, definitely.

[Interviewer]

As in if a Francois came along here.

[Guest]

Oh, no, I'd be six foot five. I would hate him. Bald.

[Interviewer]

Bald beard guy. You wouldn't be like, no.

[Guest]

Oh, what a hot me? Not. Definitely not, no.

[Interviewer]

At the start you said, we've seen that quite a long time ago now, you said. So now I'm in. You know, you're at the point of your life where things have kind of opened up.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So where are we sitting right now with all of that? And, like, you know, when you start dreaming, what do you dream about?

[Guest]

I think I. And thinking more about the opportunities that are out there and that you don't have to live your life a certain way that you think you have to, or that society tells you looks right on paper, or that you have to live, like, because things can happen and things do happen that. Yeah. You're never going to be able to predict. So I think at the end of the day, you've got to do what makes you happy, what you really feel is your passion and what you think you can contribute to the world rather than going through things just for the sake of it. And I know that's a lot easier said than done, but. Yeah, I'm kind of thinking about that at the moment and obviously I don't know which way my health's gonna go and I'm still figuring it out and I think that's fine. Life is just a journey that you just figure out and it's messy and it's complicated, but that's part of the fun of it.

[Interviewer]

And sometimes a, you know, frog bites you in an Australian rainforest.

[Guest]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

So what is the. What? You know, let's imagine you daydreaming about something before I came and bothered you. What is your kind of wildest vision for how you might spend your next X amount of time in your life?

[Guest]

I think I want to try and do something that matters and helps people to understand each other better and realize that if they're going through tough times and whatever, they're not alone. And there are so many people that share that experience. And I think, obviously, like I've told you before, I love theatre and drama and I think if I could use that to be able to do that, that would be amazing.

[Interviewer]

So some kind of theatre company who worked with people who were struggling in some way.

[Guest]

Yeah. Or maybe bought those productions. Theater people. I like that. Or turning their writing into pieces of theatre and being able to share that with people in ways that they might not have been Able to have access to it before maybe traveling with it as well, like a traveling theatre company.

[Interviewer]

It's all possible, isn't it?

[Guest]

It is.

[Interviewer]

That's very exciting.

[Guest]

Yeah. It's just taking the first step because I think a lot of the time people can hold themselves back by, like, overthinking things. Something I call sometimes. I'm a bit of an overthinker, but I think one of the things I've learned is that you actually just have to just do stuff, just go for it. Even if you don't know what's gonna happen or not gonna happen, Just do it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, exactly. Is this next chapter also looking for romantic things as well or not really?

[Guest]

Yeah, absolutely. I'm open to it. I've had a few in between things.

[Interviewer]

Imagine you meet someone they call Francois.

[Guest]

Oh, that would be a massive red flag.

[Interviewer]

Imagine. Well, just the name.

[Guest]

Just the name.

[Interviewer]

Instant. No. Anything I've missed out?

[Guest]

I have a question for you, actually. Bit of a nif.

[Interviewer]

You can ask whatever you want.

[Guest]

Bit of a funny one. Well, not funny one, but if you had a death row meal, what would it be?

[Interviewer]

Death row meal? Yeah, it would be. I don't know if this is boring, Tell me how boring this is.

[Guest]

Okay, I'll be honest.

[Interviewer]

Probably spaghetti carbonara.

[Guest]

You know what? I actually love spaghetti carbonara. It's one of my favorite pasta dishes.

[Interviewer]

I just think it's just so indulgent and it's so rich and it is absolutely terrible diabetically. It's just a nightmare to eat. So I think.

[Guest]

Would it have Parmesan on it?

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah, yeah, Big time. Heavily heavy dose. And so I think I would. Yeah, I think, like, a really massive bowl of that would do me. Yeah. Do you? I mean, is this a question you think about often?

[Guest]

Not really, no. I'm not expecting to be your death row, but if I am, you'd be

[Interviewer]

an unlikely death for a candidate. Maybe Francois. The brand. It was Francois. You don't understand. It wasn't me. Easy. It was Francois. Well, I'm just trying to think if I should ask a penultimate question. Yeah, let's do this. Let's do this one.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What we're going to do is this. If you're comfortable enough to close your eyes, I'm going to my eyes too. Okay, so we close eyes and I'm going to ask you to picture a room, a scene, a place somewhere from your past you can remember in really specific detail. But if you could try and describe that moment in that place in as much detail as you can remember.

[Guest]

Okay, So I'm with my best friend and I'm six or seven years old. And we're in a tent with a red and orange carpet and some little boxes that we've put cushions on and we're sitting down on them and there's books on the floor and there's music playing in the background. We're both laughing so hard that our stomachs are hurting. And there's summer breeze, which is making the walls of the tent flap. And there's a smell of like coal from a barbecue drifting in through the tent. And there's also little fairy lights strung around the inside which have an orange glow. And everything almost feels quite magical this afternoon, the evening and summer. And there's a streak of sunlight coming in through the tent flaps and you can see the dust in the rays of sun just sparkling there. And, yeah, we just feel like we're untouchable. It.

[Interviewer]

That was lovely.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What beautifully described feel like. I should have got you to describe loads of things. What have I missed out on, Francois? Should I just go describe every. Every experience of yours? It's funny what happens when you close your eyes, isn't it? It's like you go. Go anywhere. I mean, that was great, wasn't it? Great times. Okay, well, look, thank you so much for talking to me.

[Guest]

Yeah, thanks for. Thanks for approaching me.

[Interviewer]

What surprised you about twins as change on a bench?

[Guest]

I think maybe that we've had so much to talk about and. Yeah, but you can actually have some really interesting conversations and so much in common. Some of the experiences in your life, like other people can have, like, similar versions of that of their own. Yeah. It's just been a really fun conversation as well. Really enjoyable. And you learn things, I guess, too. So. Yeah, probably all of those things, I think.

[Interviewer]

Good answer.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

This is quite funny, the guy talking there he was on episode number three.

[Guest]

Oh, was he?

[Interviewer]

He threw his phone into the pond. He didn't like it. Didn't like having a phone, so he threw it into a pond.

[Guest]

Oh, no.

[Interviewer]

This thing you know about people. I also know exactly how he wants to die.

[Guest]

You know about people now? Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can you guess the way he wants to die?

[Guest]

I feel like it's going to be something really wild that I'm never gonna correct.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Never gonna guess.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. As well. But you probably would have guessed it eventually anyway. He wants to die making love.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Fair request.

[Guest]

Yeah. Did he go into the details of that? At which point.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, It's a really good point. I don't think he went into the details of that. He just said that, saying. What's the. Do you want to know the last question I asked people?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's. What are you going to do next?

[Guest]

I guess in a literal sense, I'm getting the bus for about an hour that I'm traveling for.

[Interviewer]

Quite a chunky bus ride.

[Guest]

Yeah. Quite a chunky bus ride. Bit of people watching. Yeah. I'm actually seeing a couple of close friends after that. I'm looking forward to it. What are you doing next?

[Interviewer]

Well, so we're going to an exhibition opening in King's Cross in about two hours. Do I. A, dump the stuff at home or B, attempt to talk to someone else? Choices.

[Guest]

Yeah. Then conversations could happen.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Guest]

I think I'd try my luck and take the equipment with me. See if someone would talk.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Guest]

Yeah, I like that. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Well, I feel like. Cause you said that. I'm gonna do that now.

[Guest]

Yeah. Cause I've really enjoyed this conversation. So I think someone else would.

[Interviewer]

Someone else might as well.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Well, thank you very much.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Anything you'd like to end with?

[Guest]

Any words, Any words of wisdom? I just say life's short. It sounds a bit. A bit drastic, but grab everything you can and go for it.

[Interviewer]

There you go.

[Background Singer]

I went down to Cairns back everything went out of whack well, some are made to carry heavy load and I got more more than everyone I know. Woke up to the peering sound didn't know if I was dead or alive My life's changed in every way I know and I need something new to get me going. And I flow. Don't mind me what I do or say Keeping alive from day to day no, you never know what I've come from Never know the floods that I've become. Now I know I'll float. Float, I float. I won't be stranded by the flow.