EPISODE 90: So Glad I Didn't Hide Away

Summary

Strangers on a Bench – Episode 90: So Glad I Didn't Hide Away

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Date: June 1, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this 90th episode of Strangers on a Bench, Tom Rosenthal sits down in Lewes with a stranger—anonymity preserved as always—to explore her life journey, striking up a serendipitous, intimate exchange. Set against the happenstance of jury service downtime, the conversation moves through reflections on connection, the changing nature of intimacy, parental relationships, the value of being truly “seen”, and the powerful effects of simply taking the time to listen.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Setting the Scene: Jury Service and Random Meetings

• Location: On a bridge in Lewes, overlooking a nameless river (later learned: the Ouse, possibly near "Cliff Bridge").

• Context: The guest is on jury service but hasn’t been selected that day, allowing for spare time (01:23).

  “I haven't been picked, so that's why I've got a moment to sit here… and just thought, I'll have a moment.”
  — Guest (01:37)

2. Firsts, Games & The Importance of Play

• Guest recounts her first time playing pickleball—her friend and her stayed in a treehouse with courts in Northumberland (03:30–04:14).

• Both share how play and silly games (like windy ping pong) provide necessary, restorative fun in busy lives (05:10).

  “We’re having some of that fun that we said we both needed, aren’t we?”
  — Guest (05:12)

3. The Lost Art of Phone Calls & Intimacy

• Nostalgic discussion of phone boxes, memorable calls, and the shrinking role of voice communication in digital life (05:30–09:25).

• Guest recalls calling a Dutch boy she’d met on holiday from a red phone box at 17, a poignant coming-of-age moment (06:09).

  “I do remember ringing somebody I'd met on holiday when I was only 17… which was quite something to do at that age, really.”—Guest (06:09)

• Both note how phone calls have become rare and even feel intrusive today compared to quick texts and voice notes (07:30–08:33).

4. Vulnerability, Rejection & Being Truly Heard

• The guest opens up about sensitivity to rejection, tracing it back to childhood experiences with her mother’s lack of attention or “active listening” (09:46–14:10).

• She sincerely explores what it's like to feel unseen and how this subtly shaped her approach to relationships and communication.

  “I think overall… interest wasn’t taken in what I was doing, maybe. So therefore you learn not to bring things up…”
  — Guest (12:21)

• Host connects this to universal struggles with self-acceptance and being socialized to “fit in” (17:19–18:31).

5. Moments of Recognition & Formative Influences

• Guest recalls sporadic yet formative encouragement from neighbors and acquaintances, especially in her youth as a gymnast (19:16–19:52), and supportive adults during early job shifts (21:10–22:21).
• Discusses how such validation became foundational for her later choices and sense of self.

6. Romantic Labels, Intimate Friendship, and Life Partnership

• The conversation pivots to the defining partnership in the guest’s adult life: a deep, non-romantic, non-sexual yet “life partner” connection with her best friend, whom she met through teaching (23:48–31:08).

• Both left long-term relationships for each other. Despite no physical “romantic” aspect, the bond is uniquely fulfilling.

  “What we are… that’s why we now use the term partner… it seems different, but, you know, come into the modern world.”—Guest (28:02)

  “The dynamic of two humans is always unique.”—Tom Rosenthal (29:17)

• The guest discusses the difficulty of categorizing their relationship, reflecting on societal expectations and the limits of labels (29:13–29:22).

7. Intimacy, Needs, and Growth

• The difference in intimacy: being truly seen, understood, and accepted has enabled the guest to grow and relax into her true self (35:53–37:38).

  “The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are.”—Tom Rosenthal (37:03, quoting Joseph Campbell)

• She contrasts this long-term “life partnership” to romantic passion, embracing the modern understanding of intimacy and love.

8. Society, Time, and Human Connection

• The guest and Tom reflect philosophically on why Western society doesn't value sitting and talking—active listening and presence—despite it being so fundamental to well-being (43:01–44:47).

  “Why don't we see having time… as a pastime that we should invest in?” – Guest (43:01)

  “It’s a four-day week. That just seems so incredibly sensible…” – Tom (43:57)

• They discuss how capitalism, modern work culture, and lack of time isolate people from meaningful encounters (44:39–45:07).

9. Education as Connection: The Joys of Early Years Teaching

• The guest describes the special moments as an early years (reception) teacher—how small acts of interest and encouragement can unlock confidence and growth in children (49:50–51:37).

  “It is so important to get to know them as real individuals… to do, say the right thing at the right time that helps them have that trust in you…”—Guest (50:05)

10. Experiment: The Guest Speaks Alone [52:24–54:21]

• Tom steps away, leaving the guest to reflect solo into the microphone for a few minutes—a “first” for the podcast.

  “That was amazingly interesting. Who would have predicted my day would end up like this?... I’m so glad I was on this bench and took the plunge to do it and didn’t hide away.” — Guest (52:52)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Being Seen:

  “To be heard is so important… it’s a central tenet of love, really.” — Tom Rosenthal (22:42)

• On Partnership Beyond Labels:

  “The thing about labels is you could have a million of them. Doesn’t mean you’re going to… you can capture anything.” — Tom Rosenthal (29:13)

• On Childhood and Parents:

  “She was doing her best… and it can still affect you, you know, because as children… you’re very formative and we’re all limited in some [way].” — Tom Rosenthal (17:19)

• On Privilege of Authenticity:

  “The privilege of a lifetime is being who you are.” — Tom Rosenthal quoting Joseph Campbell (37:03)

• On Societal Constraints:

  “Capitalism just, you know, and that drive for like, everybody’s going to be in work and we’re pretty busy and… all these things that are constructed just to keep us away from each other.” — Guest (42:39)

• On Connection Through Listening:

  “If you listen to someone for long enough, you basically can’t help but love them.” — Comment relayed by Tom Rosenthal (40:52)

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Timestamps for Significant Segments

| Segment | Timestamps | |------------------------------------------------------|--------------| | Beginnings and Jury Service | 00:00–02:35 | | On Games, Play, and Restorative Fun | 03:28–05:30 | | Reflections on Phone Calls & Lost Intimacy | 05:30–09:25 | | Vulnerability, Rejection and Early Relationships | 09:42–14:10 | | Mother–Daughter Dynamics & Family Reflection | 14:06–18:31 | | Meaningful Adult Influences & Careers | 19:16–22:21 | | Connection, Partnership, and Rejection of Labels | 23:48–32:19 | | How It Changed Her: Growth and Authenticity | 35:29–38:13 | | Philosophizing on Time, Society, and Work Culture | 42:13–44:47 | | Early Years Teaching: Magic in the Everyday | 49:50–51:37 | | Solo Reflection – Guest Alone on the Bench | 52:24–54:21 | | Final Reflections, Naming the Bridge, Goodbyes | 54:21–End |

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Tone & Atmosphere

The conversation is gentle, intimate, often playful—Tom’s easygoing, deeply curious style encouraging the guest’s honest self-reflection. Both speakers are thoughtful and unhurried, moving fluidly from humor to vulnerability, practicalities to bigger life questions.

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Memorable Final Reflections

After her solo reflection, the guest sums up the magic of choosing to share:

“I'm so glad I was on this bench and took the plunge to do it and didn't hide away, which is possibly a tendency.”
— Guest (52:52)

The episode closes with musings on the importance of taking chances, time’s impact on connection, and the simple, powerful act of listening—reinforcing the show’s core ethos “magical things can happen any day. We’re all just people.” (57:54)

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For listeners and newcomers alike, this episode is a moving portrait of the quiet revolutions sparked when strangers give each other the gift of time, openness, and real attention.

Transcript

[Podcast Host]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. So you've already heard two episodes.

[Guest]

They were great. One was about throwing the mobile in the pond. That was the second one. And the first one was Guy. He'd been to prison.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And that was pretty.

[Podcast Host]

So you're two down.

[Guest]

I am. Many. Many.

[Podcast Host]

And here we are.

[Guest]

We are. That's so strange.

[Podcast Host]

Can we say where we are? We're allowed to say where we are.

[Guest]

Yeah. Why not?

[Podcast Host]

We're in Lewis, on a bridge that I don't know the name of, nor the river. We're over. You know the name of the river.

[Guest]

I should probably know that, but now I can't remember.

[Podcast Host]

But it's a good spot.

[Guest]

It's a lovely spot. Yeah. That's why I chose this bench. The reason I'm here is because I'm on jewelry service.

[Podcast Host]

See, that's the first 300 plus down.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Not anyone on jury service.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

At that moment.

[Interjecting Voice]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And I haven't been picked, so that's why I've got a moment to sit here and I brought my workbook along and just come out and thought, I'll have a moment.

[Podcast Host]

Not much of a moment.

[Guest]

Well, I had had a moment before, so that's. That's all right.

[Podcast Host]

Do you know why they'd pick. Certain people are not another very.

[Guest]

All random. So there's a certain amount of you that go in and then your names are all on cards. And then they picked 12.

[Podcast Host]

Were you very excited to get the call? Get the call up.

[Guest]

It was interesting. It's actually the second time, so I was surprised to get it again, I suppose, in a way, because you think, what are the chances? But it's just random.

[Podcast Host]

I've not had it once.

[Guest]

No. And lots of people won't, will they?

[Podcast Host]

But, yeah, no, actually someone kind of come and get me. Plea to the authorities. I don't know who won. Civic duty.

[Guest]

Civic duty. Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

Funny word, civic duty. I don't quite know what other things can under that. It's just kind of not committing a crime. It's just not pushing someone over on the street. I mean, it's going to kind of, you know, I mean, what is it?

[Guest]

What is it?

[Podcast Host]

Waving?

[Guest]

You should look that up.

[Podcast Host]

Say good morning to people.

[Guest]

Yeah. We should look it up and see what comes under civic duty. Shouldn't we?

[Podcast Host]

But it's one of those rare ones which is just like definitively jury service is civic duty.

[Guest]

You know that pretty much, yeah. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So you've listened to two of these programs. You remember how they start?

[Guest]

Yes, I think so. You ask about favorite day of the week.

[Podcast Host]

There you go.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I don't even need to be here. I just. I show myself. What would he ask next? Well, you'd ask me. I've yet to do that. Leave someone on a bench. You just talk as long as you can. I've got to go.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know what? Now we've said that maybe, you know, if. If we're happy enough in a certain amount of time, if I leave for three minutes, let's just see what happens. That'd be a first. I feel like once you're on a roll with first, you should just. Yeah, go with the first.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Have you had any firsts recently?

[Guest]

I did play pickleball recently. First time.

[Podcast Host]

Is that the Tennessee one?

[Guest]

Yeah. I wasn't sure which was which.

[Podcast Host]

There's a few now.

[Guest]

Yeah, There are paddle and pickleball. I wasn't sure which was which. It was really good. Really enjoyed it.

[Podcast Host]

Why did you do it?

[Guest]

My friend and I were away. We're in Northumberland. We're staying in the countryside in a lovely tree house that we've stayed in before. Very contemporary. Treehouse. And they've got tennis court there in

[Podcast Host]

the treehouse,

[Guest]

just outside of the grounds.

[Podcast Host]

So you're getting a treehouse moment.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

At the same time, your pickleball.

[Guest]

Yeah, it's lovely, actually. It just works really well on Trust. And they've got an old red telephone box in the. In the ground. And that's where they store all the tennis. Yeah, tennis rackets.

[Podcast Host]

And that's what they're used for now.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, exactly. They found a real good use for it.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. More games, eh?

[Guest]

Yeah, more games. It was fun.

[Podcast Host]

They feel good, don't they, the game?

[Guest]

They do.

[Podcast Host]

I've got a good game story for the other day where I'm quite a ping pong fan.

[Guest]

I like ping pong.

[Podcast Host]

I'm not brilliant at it, but it's such a lovely thing.

[Guest]

It is.

[Podcast Host]

And I play with my friend Sid. We went where we normally would play. It's next to a college and it was incredibly windy. Your first thought was like, oh, well, that's just not going to work. And the second thought was, you know what, let's just. Let's just try, wasn't it? And it was just so funny, obviously it was ridiculous. You're competing against the width. You know, you slightly. You touch. You touch it slightly and the ball just flies a mile and just to take. And it's like, well, this is completely ridiculous. There was one end we couldn't win from, I'm sure, because. And so it's just. But there was a magic, actually, I realized. And half it was just playing in the first place and just. And just getting involved with the silliness,

[Guest]

which is good fun. And that's. Yeah, it's more what we both needed. We've both been really busy at work and I actually said that at the time when I was playing with my friend. I said, we're having some of that fun that we said we both needed, aren't we? It was really like a moment to go. Really enjoying this. It's really fun.

[Podcast Host]

I was going to ask. When you mentioned the red telephone box, do you remember in your past the most important call, or at least a memorable one you can remember even from a telephone.

[Guest]

From a red telephone box.

[Interjecting Voice]

Box.

[Guest]

It.

[Podcast Host]

See, does it seem. It's so funny how very quickly the thought of diving into this red box to communicate with someone seems absolutely mad. It seems like something from like 500 years ago.

[Guest]

Exactly.

[Podcast Host]

When actually it was like, what, 20?

[Guest]

Exactly. Yeah. I mean, it is.

[Podcast Host]

I was gonna go into that red box and then. You'll be able to call someone. Didn't the red box. What was wrong with it?

[Guest]

Where's the thing in my pocket. Funny. I do remember ringing somebody I'd met on holiday when I. When I was only 17 and met this boy, his Dutch boy. And I remember ringing him from a red telephone box to arrange to go over and see him, actually, which was quite something to do at that age, really. And, yeah, I ended up going over and had a great time.

[Podcast Host]

But it all started in the box.

[Guest]

It all started in the box.

[Podcast Host]

Just hearing that story sounds like it's not fathomable that you could actually make arrangements from the box.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

It almost seems like you're just like that, actually. That could. The spring. It's almost like. Almost like that's not right.

[Guest]

That's how you did it. Or you did it from your home phone. But you wanted some privacy. That's why I think important ones spring to mind are ones like that. But you thought, I just need a bit of privacy from.

[Podcast Host]

Although you would have had. You would have had a bit of a time limit. I'm guessing now you're putting the coins in.

[Guest]

That's very true. Do you remember the Pips going and having to quickly put some more in or say goodbye quickly. Remember the pip. You're not old enough for that. Of course.

[Podcast Host]

Of course I am. I remember the Pips. But it's funny. It's funny to think that's such, again, an absolutely mad idea that, you know, you have to cram this communication in such a short space of time.

[Interjecting Voice]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Don't you think it's funny though, as well, that now, I don't know, it might not happen with you, but calling was the only way. So that's what you did, you called your friends and now there's less of that. I speak to my friends barely ever on the phone now, and I. That's a bit sad, you know, because texts are not the same, are they? You can let somebody know you're thinking about them, you know, in a quick way, but you. I think you lose something. It almost feels like an intrusion now to ring somebody, doesn't it?

[Podcast Host]

They're so right.

[Guest]

What are we scared of?

[Podcast Host]

It's a great question. I think maybe there's a lot of options that allow us to do stuff in our own time, but it seems like, you know, without kind of bothering another. For instance, like the voice note, obviously becoming more and more popular that, say, would naturally take the place of a phone call.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

It's convenient to me. I'd do it. But then obviously something. There is a bridge lacking, clearly, in that.

[Guest]

It's a bit of a loss of intimacy, I think, isn't it?

[Podcast Host]

Oh, definitely. You know, I'm not. You know, there are some lovely things about a voice note. You know, it's preferable to a text. Some people. It does the job in some. Some situations. But again, it's no dynamic.

[Guest]

No.

[Podcast Host]

I think back to, you know, you in that telephone box calling the sweet Dutch. Dutch guy when you're in that box. And I'm thinking now about some of the phone calls I make.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know, it's kind of scary, I suppose there's a real vulnerability to. You pick up the phone, you call someone, you don't know what situation they're gonna find them in. You know, you're gonna be interrupting something. Then obviously when you're calling house phones, you might have got someone's parent or whoever was around.

[Guest]

Yeah, you should navigate all that, you know.

[Podcast Host]

So it's like there was, like a sense of trepidation in making these phone calls. But then I suppose also nowadays, because it is so much more just success, you know, successful not to do it. Then it's like it's less. Why give yourself the fear while just do this?

[Guest]

It is. I think that's exactly what it is. I think we're. We're afraid of the rejection, aren't we? And we feel like we're intruding and therefore put ourselves in that position where somebody hasn't possibly got time. And I don't think we think consciously of it as a rejection, but I think that's probably what's under. It's vulnerability, isn't it?

[Podcast Host]

When was the last time you got rejected or felt rejected?

[Guest]

Good question. Felt rejected. I mean, I can be easily hurt anyway. You can feel if somebody's. If you feel like somebody's not listening very well, you know, active listening takes a lot, doesn't it? You know, and we're not busy lives and we always present. So I think I can feel hurt that way. Yeah. But can I think of something that's recent where I've felt rejected?

[Podcast Host]

Maybe you're not putting yourself out there enough.

[Guest]

Maybe more phone calls, you know. Yeah, there is that, isn't there? That, you know, what are you not taking up because you're a little bit afraid? That's a good question. You really made me think. Yeah, because there's feeling little bits of rejection because somebody hasn't heard you. That's just normal, isn't it? And I'm very sensitive to that.

[Podcast Host]

Who is this person who's not listening to you? Let's go over it.

[Guest]

No, I think in my past, who would you think as a child growing up, I think family, you know, listening.

[Podcast Host]

Who was the key person you think did not simply listen enough to you?

[Guest]

My mum. That's evoked a little bit of an emotional response, isn't it? Yeah, something I'm working through. It's not huge, nothing big happened, but it's just something I've realized, perhaps just. Yeah, I didn't get enough of that. Perhaps, you know, nothing intentional. She'd be really hurt, I'm sure, if she thought, yeah, I didn't feel I got enough of that, perhaps. But clearly at the same time, that can still have a bit of an impact, can't it?

[Podcast Host]

What were you trying to say to her that she wasn't receiving?

[Guest]

I think overall it was possibly just about just taking notice of. Might not be so much that I was saying things that weren't heard. Although I can remember instances of somebody saw her mum and pops responding in a way that sounds like she's listening and then, you know, she hasn't because of what happens, you know, after. But I think overall, what I've got to get into the bottom of is that possibly wasn't asked enough questions if I was. Interest wasn't taken in what I was doing, maybe. So therefore you think you learn not to bring things up because you can feel that somebody else's needs and interests are sort of taking precedence, you know, so to not get rejected or to feel rejected, you sort of just go along with their topic of conversation and keep yourself just in the good books and. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Is she with us?

[Guest]

Yes, she still. She still is with us, yeah, she is, yeah. She's in the early stages of dementia at the moment as well, so. But only very early, so sometimes you wouldn't know.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. Do you think it's possible to get any. Anything from her now that you would want, or is that too much?

[Guest]

Yeah, it's. It's interesting that, you know, talked the therapist a while ago now, before Mum had dementia, and they made the decision that actually bringing it up in any big way probably would have done more harm, I think. Yeah. Yeah. So just trying to understand why I feel like that and take responsibility for then how I show up and what positions I put myself in, I suppose. Boundaries talking boundaries to some extent, aren't you, in how much time you spend, what you share. Yeah. Work in progress still.

[Podcast Host]

What has she done? Well, mother. I mean, what. What would. What do you. What do you have to thank her for?

[Guest]

She's so smiley friendly, getting on with people, you know, out and about. She's very much in the moment, my mum, so she wasn't restricted by things. Oh, there won't be enough time for that. You know, let's maybe just go and do that. So there's some really good points that. That way. As a kid, we probably benefited from. Not too rigid. She loved fashion and clothes. We had a good bond over that. That's always been a place where we've been able to spend time together, shopping.

[Podcast Host]

So just taking from what you said there, what you said previously, she's very

[Guest]

present person, very lives in the moment

[Podcast Host]

and maybe you wanted to process some things or think about stuff that's already happened or kind of. And she just obviously was just. If you're that present or not wanting to think about things, I think.

[Guest]

I think if I'm. I think if. I think there was a little bit of perhaps chaos, perhaps not. Chaos is too maybe strong a word, but where there weren't the boundaries for, you know, we can try this. We can, you know, we can go and let's do that. And it Also didn't sometimes create some of those realistic and safety sort of boundaries that you needed as well, you know.

[Podcast Host]

Do you have any idea about why if her being so present was more of a. Something that wasn't her first choice, say something that she just had to be because she didn't want to be the other or didn't want to reflect too much on whatever she would be reflecting on. Can you think about what that would have been,

[Guest]

Would she have been trying to avoid? I'm not sure. I feel more like her bandwidth is just taken up with, with what's happening in the moment. There's a lot to attend to. Whether now she would be diagnosed with ADD or adhd. I don't, I don't know. I mean, you know, speculate just because come across a lot of that through, you know, my work. And I do think just attending to what was happening in the moment took a lot. There are four to and think right. Do we need to reflect? Do we need to process just not so much in her nature. I think she, she actually shared with, with us that she didn't always feel as a child getting in to trouble for this very thing. Like because she was a bit, you know, a bit sort of oh, you know, looking at the clouds and looking at the this and looking at that. And it was pay attention from a moment of us, pay attention to this, what you do. So I think, you know, she put

[Podcast Host]

the way she is.

[Guest]

Yes, just. It's just the way she is. Hence why feeling that you've slightly suffered because of that, it's hard because she is how she is. And I think what I've had to be okay with is that those two things can happen at the same time. She was doing her best and didn't mean anything. And it can still affect you, you know, because as children, you know, you're

[Podcast Host]

very formative and we're all limited in some. We've all got these blind spots that we just can't cover. You know, how much someone may say, well have you thought about this? Cannot do more of this. And sometimes we just don't have it in us.

[Guest]

No. And we're of a different generation. I'm really interested in growth and trying to understand formative experiences and how that affects us in a positive and less positive ways. And everybody is affected by their childhood in positive and less so because nobody can get everything right because we are complex creatures. But also, you know, there's openness to that, isn't there to reflecting and getting, you know, therapy and if you're interested to try to find your blind spots and, you know, I'm really interested in that. But that wasn't something previous generations had so much access to or thought about and that's it. So it is different.

[Podcast Host]

If, if you didn't get quite what you were looking for from your mom, you know, who is kind of the one who went. Who? Yeah.

[Guest]

There are definitely some experiences I remember of adults either as a child or as a young, you know, sort of teenager, young adult where somebody took an interest in me and that, that was, that was, it stood out to me. And I really remember our lovely next door neighbors looking. I was often in the garden and I was, was flipping myself about. I was into gymnastics for a long time when I was young, you know.

[Podcast Host]

On a trampoline.

[Guest]

No, on the grass. Yeah. So gymnastic, proper sort of, you know, artistic gymnastics.

[Podcast Host]

Anything for a softer landing or just the grass?

[Guest]

Just the grass, yeah. You do backflip? Yeah, I used to do backflips and somersaults at one point. Back somersaults at one point.

[Podcast Host]

Whoa. Still. Still got it in you?

[Guest]

No, but last week in, when I was in Northumberland, I did do a cartwheel on the beach in a handstand. In fact. I did two or three cartwheels on the beach because I just could still, I thought a big open space. I just thought I've got to just do it and try.

[Podcast Host]

And you could, you still could.

[Guest]

And I didn't pull anything. Which is a great thing because sometimes

[Podcast Host]

when you try more car wheeling.

[Guest]

Yeah, absolutely. Especially because I didn't pull anything. Obviously the Pilates and the stuff I'm doing paying off, so. But yeah, I remember next door neighbors just really taking an interest in what I was doing and I just wasn't used to that, you know, Just wasn't used to it. It was lovely. And I remember thinking, yeah. And then other times, I suppose a couple of times with other adults. Just when I was in, I went to. I worked in insurance for the first few years after coming out of school. I'm dossed about in A levels. I was really lost my way. I was too busy with the Dutch boy. With the Dutch boy. Was the Dutch boy. And then other boys. Yeah, it was definitely. It didn't happen after that.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, to be fair to you, it's an entirely, you know, I think reasonable choice. I mean, look, it's, I mean what, what's more exciting than romance?

[Guest]

Exactly. And it was just at that time I just wasn't ready. I wasn't, I Wasn't mature enough at that point to apply myself. So I went to work. But then I sort of had this thought about because I'd had some work experience through. I can't remember what year in school, but we did some work experience and I went to work in primary schools and I enjoyed it so much for the half term. I asked if I could do it again the next half term. So I think that sort of lodged somewhere. Not at the time. So when I was working in insurance anyway, I decided I was going to pursue this and go to. You need to train to teach. And I remember getting some help from somebody that was actually temping at the insurance company. And she happened to have been a friend of the family years ago. I'd known her daughters and she was really helpful because she'd gone and done some further education herself, I think, later on. And she offered to put me in touch with somebody, primary school head that she knew, try and get me in there. Her lecturer that she'd had, which was. Must have been through uni to look at my application and everything. And that really sticks with me that, you know, she didn't have to do any of that and she took notice of something that I wanted to do just through talking and helping. It was really lovely. So there have been those lovely forms, people along the way.

[Podcast Host]

This might be an overreach, but I'll say it anyway. You can tell me if it does make any sense. If mother's not giving you enough acknowledgment.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Do you think at all you sought that in those early romances, do you think that propelled you towards those?

[Guest]

More could easily have done.

[Podcast Host]

Seems to make sense.

[Guest]

Absolutely. You're not getting something. So. Yeah. When you get some attention from elsewhere,

[Podcast Host]

to be heard is so important, really, isn't it? I would say it's like it's a central tenet of love, really.

[Guest]

No, completely. And yeah. I think making those connections where you can. Which takes us on to how I ended up down here in this. In the south, really. So now I'm living down in the south coast with. What do we call her? Call her My best friend. Probably morphed now into calling ourselves partners because we saw something in each other and just had such a connection and we even think quite a lot of that is because. Because of being felt to be seen and understood by each other on a really like, amazing level. I'm so lucky. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Got lots of questions for you. But how. How did you meet this person?

[Guest]

Yeah, through. Through work. So through teaching the Same school. We just, we just got on but very quickly there was a, just a like almost a need to be together. It was really quite something. But at the same time wasn't about attraction in a way that you would like, you know, been attracted to, you know, boys and men. But there's that just that need to be together and we changed our lives because of it. We were both in long standing relationships. Came out of those and.

[Interjecting Voice]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Amazing.

[Guest]

It is, it is amazing. It is amazing.

[Podcast Host]

Very beautiful. Could I ask how old you both were when you met?

[Guest]

Yes. So how old was I? 30. Yeah, 32. She was a little bit younger just to be 30, I think. Yeah, 30 and 32.

[Podcast Host]

And you had been in both in long term relationships?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

How roughly how long?

[Guest]

So six years. Married for some of that. And similarly she'd been with her partner, you know, living together for quite a number of years as well. So I mean you look back and you're still very young. And I always, I've always felt this, that I've come quite late to things. So you look back and gosh, we were very young. Really.

[Podcast Host]

A complicated question for you. Did meeting your partner.

[Guest]

Yeah, let's do that.

[Podcast Host]

Did she make you aware that what you had had so far wasn't meeting something or was she an entirely other proposition that took you away from that? Does that mean.

[Guest]

It's a really good question. Question and I think it's a bit of both. I'd never felt seen and understood and loved anyway in the way that I do with her. So that was different. It wasn't like there was loads wrong in my relationship that I was in. You know, there was compromises that I was possibly making. Compromises that you make in a marriage and perhaps some of that is going around his needs more than mine sometimes. But, you know, nothing major. It just came to there being no question that this is who I need to be with the love and the care and the just the just the understanding that we've got and the ease of being together and you know, that was definitely, definitely different. Not like what I was in was bad in any way. It wasn't. Which was, you know, that's hard in itself.

[Podcast Host]

The way you described your partner initially like, well I met this person. Sounds like, you know, a light came on from somewhere. You described it initially as like an amazing friend. Then you say, well that actually really is a partner. You know, there was no particularly like sexual, romantic, whatever you call it. Like that's just purely. Just based on a kindred spirit.

[Guest]

Yeah, absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

Can you explain without prying too much, did you kind of grow into that side eventually? Or how did that work? Or maybe you haven't for, like, now. You could just be completely platonic friends living together.

[Guest]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

Which would also be completely fine.

[Guest]

Absolutely. We are. And that's what we are.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Which is why we now use the term partner.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

But it's felt strange saying that because it's not that sort of romantic and, you know, sexual relationship. It's seems. It seems different, but, you know, come into the modern world.

[Podcast Host]

Here we are.

[Guest]

But. Yeah. So.

[Podcast Host]

So. So again, stop me if any of these questions are too evasive in nature, but there hasn't been. There's never been a romantic element to this.

[Guest]

It's what I suppose is what you call romantic, isn't it? It's. It's. It's hard to. Yeah. But, yeah, if you're talking physical and such, it's not. And we're not talking that, you know, that relationship. No. It's just. Yeah. I mean, I suppose it's. It's that need to share a bed.

[Podcast Host]

No, no. Have you ever.

[Guest]

No, not.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah.

[Guest]

You know, other than. Yeah, no, we have. No. No. This is why it's always been hard to categorize, you know, for people, because. And now somebody would say you're. Yeah, you're. People would want to label you as you're asexual or you're whatever, you know, and it's not as. Not always as simple as that, is it? Because I'm.

[Podcast Host]

The thing about labels is you could have a million of them. Doesn't mean you're gonna. You can capture anything.

[Interjecting Voice]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know, the dynamic of two humans is always. Is always, always unique.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know, there will be people out there who have had a similar situation to you who, probably because of the fact it doesn't fit into certain labels, have stressed about it.

[Interjecting Voice]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And maybe not gone through with what feels right.

[Guest]

Yeah. Yeah. Yes.

[Podcast Host]

Because they're like, well, how do I explain this to Uncle Philip at Christmas? You know, how am I going to say? Well, I can't really. Sort of.

[Guest]

Absolutely. Because it's not neatly categorized.

[Podcast Host]

When I hear that, I think, what a beautiful sounding thing.

[Guest]

It is really interesting, isn't it? And it's. So sometimes a lot is put around that sexual relationship anyway, isn't there? But then also, even. Why wider than that, you know, a lot of listening to Esther Perel. She's a brilliant psychotherapist, isn't she? And she's done a lot of work on couples and Intimacy. And her definition of intimacy is just so much wider, you know, and. And the erotic as well. The way she talks about eroticism, she talks about that through the art and everything, you know, not just sex. So, I mean, I think everybody thinks of intimacy has to lead to sex. You know, certainly what my partner and I have got is a really intimate relationship. And that intimacy is about being able to be your full self. And that. That's really special. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I've got one more annoying, slightly invasive question related to this since living with this. But, you know, have. Have you saw anything physical elsewhere or is it just not. Have you just not been the desire.

[Guest]

It's just. It's just. It's really funny because in the early days that was really sort of complicated because obviously the attractions to. To men still was. And also in the early days I'd always thought I'd have children and my partner also herself, the children as well. So that was something to. To navigate. There was that initial what's going to happen there? And there were definitely little bits foraging into, you know, being interested in other people. But, you know, what happened was that we just. That felt like a betrayal of the one of us, you know, because I think, because we know that we needed to be life partners. And I know lots of people will have open relationships where they can have sex with other people. And if that had been a real issue for either of us, we would have had to have navigated that. But it. I think just the desire wasn't there enough to make that happen.

[Podcast Host]

And now how. How many years has it been again?

[Guest]

Lots. Now where are we? 23 years. 23 years, yeah. Wow.

[Podcast Host]

You remember a first moment where it really clicked with her.

[Guest]

Like, this is more than.

[Podcast Host]

More than just you average.

[Guest]

Yeah, absolutely. Because we'd done some things as a group going out together and we'd been away for some weekends as a group of people at work. It's very sociable, but we'd spent quite a lot of that time together. You know, we were staying over on a couple of places, so shared the room together and we just stayed up talking all night. But at that point that was just still very. Just great friend. I've got an extra great friend in my life. And then it just felt more exciting to be able to get that time together or go. I remember us going out one night midweek, went out where I lived and came and stayed over. And so a couple of those things sort of happened. And then the summer holidays came from school and work and I remember driving over to A hospital appointment with my husband at the time. He was driving. And a song came on the radio and it really got me and made me think of her. Her. And it really. I thought, oh, that's a bit different. That's a longing. Gosh. Okay.

[Podcast Host]

The power of a song to kind of unite you with that feeling.

[Guest]

Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

I've got to ask what the song was.

[Guest]

Yeah. And I'm now thinking I never do because I've obviously heard it since, and I can't.

[Podcast Host]

Can we think.

[Guest]

I'm so terrible at remembering names of things as well.

[Podcast Host]

Was it. Was it a female voice?

[Guest]

It was a female voice, yes.

[Podcast Host]

We've narrowed it down.

[Guest]

Yes. Yes. Down to the year. Which year was it?

[Podcast Host]

Was it kind of. Was it kind of. Was it acoustic? Was it rocky? Was it poppy?

[Guest]

It wasn't poppy. It was definitely a bit more. It's slower. A bit more of a.

[Podcast Host]

Okay.

[Guest]

You know, a bit more of one of those heartstringy ones.

[Podcast Host]

Fantastic. Yeah, but that's beautiful. In that moment, you're like, oh, hang on.

[Guest]

Yes. This is a.

[Podcast Host]

This is a funny moment. It's a different kind of feeling to what I thought I would feel.

[Guest]

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And then we've got some summer plans. Went away on holiday and just. Yeah. Really missing her. Missing her and needing to be in touch. There was definitely that need to be together then. Well, that. That was when it was all. This is definitely different.

[Podcast Host]

Another big question for you coming up. What has having your kind of needs met by someone, if we can say that, or having your, you know, or to put it to be. Being understood. What has that allowed you to do in your life? Since

[Guest]

it helps me do. It's helped me. It's helped me grow. Helped me grow as a person. I mean, I've learned a lot from just being with her because she's such a very. He's a very good person. So I. It's. It's opened me up to, you know, her viewpoints on things, and she's very socially sort of very aware. And I think it's just. Overall, it's just allowed me to be more comfortable with being myself. Allowed me to relax and be myself fully without having to sort of think, how am I being interpreted, you know, what people thinking of me? I don't think that with her at all, you know, but I think to be able to be our full selves is. Is really important. And I can. I can recognize, especially through some help with therapy and everything, that. That I'm not always. Yeah. So she probably gets Some of those bits that are more real.

[Podcast Host]

There's a wonderful quote from when I was 18. My father gave me a book by Joseph Campbell, Australian philosopher, writery guy. And a few quotes that. Dots around here and there. One of which has stayed with me is the privilege of a lifetime is being who you are. But that is. That, isn't it? I think that's what you kind of. We all kind of really work towards, or what is there really to strive for beyond that? Like, it's just. It's just the magic, really. It's just the key thing.

[Guest]

And it sounds so simple, doesn't it? Be who you are. We're all just who we are. But actually, I didn't realize I wasn't being.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah, it's actually really complicated. Really complicated.

[Guest]

It's really complex. But I think even realizing that that is a thing that maybe we aren't being is huge completely.

[Podcast Host]

And that's the. It says a lot about the world we live in, but also just, you know, general Western society. The whole thing that so many things take us away from that and we've got to, like. It's such a battle to be that. You know, the whole thing about labels is one of them.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know, being forced to do things at school you might want to do. I mean, you know, do master this because you just have to. Why? I don't like what you're doing. It's your parents saying, well, I'm not sure, maybe you should be doing this instead. Or, you know, so many. There's so many hurdles. It's not like. It's just one coming at you. There's so many forces that want you to be over here instead of over there.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

And then to kind of. And it is such a battle, and it's so easy to lose that battle.

[Guest]

It completely. You don't realize you've been fitting in. Yeah, yeah. Just. Do we all get to recognize that in our lives? I mean, on that theme of, like, daring to be yourself. I mean, part of the initial. Oh, my goodness. Like, it's just a stranger on the bench. My temptation was to not do this because I've spent quite a lot of time not sharing openly. Here I am, in case I'm judged without me even realizing I'm doing that. But that was a moment there where I thought, what do you. What are you hiding from? You've listened to two of these and found them fascinating. And those people put themselves out there. Why do you think you're going to be judged anymore? I Didn't have time to process all of that, but do you know what I mean? I said, yes, yes, exactly. I was so scared of, like, things being found out. And I don't even mean bad things, just my thoughts. I had kept diaries when I was younger, probably the sort of the age from 14 up to 17, Dutch guy, whatever. And I got rid of them all about that age because I was just too worried about anybody coming across anything. And I don't think I. I think I probably put things in here. This is another layer to it. I put things in code, I think,

[Podcast Host]

to some extent in the. In my diaries.

[Guest]

But even putting things down on paper, I found really hard. And once I'd done that and I already had revealed bits about myself, I thought, no, that's got to go. And that's about stage of just not feeling that you're valid as who you are, isn't it? Yeah, Just help me make that connection. I've just. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

With this podcast, people comment, you know, you can make comments on different places. And one of the comments fairly recently said what this podcast has made me realize that if you listen to someone for long enough, you basically can't help but love them. Do you know, as in, you know, if you spend enough time with someone in a meaningful way, you'll understand why they are the way they are.

[Guest]

Yes, exactly.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. The more I talk to people, I made awareness of that.

[Guest]

We're all connected that way. We started off talking about phones, didn't we? And being separated by not enough connection that way. I think there are not enough connections. Often we're so easy to judge. Isn't it from afar when you get to know somebody, like you've just said, I recognize we're all just.

[Podcast Host]

That's it. And there are some really cool. And there are some really, you know, I've also very. I'm very drawn to, as I go on with this project, almost like chucking in, you know, some really complex characters and, you know, let's just give them the time to, you know, explain it all and talk about their parents, where they've come from, decisions they've had, the things, the traumas that have been thrust upon them. And then let's understand all the things they've done in context.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, in context.

[Podcast Host]

Everything is context. You know, it really is. So that's.

[Guest]

That's so important.

[Podcast Host]

So really, if this whole project has been about anything, it's like, you know, can we know people better? Can we give people a bit more time?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And to be fair, to like everybody really. It's the structure of society that doesn't allow for the time of that.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

That's not the individual's fault. You know, we think we're doing it well, we're just not.

[Guest]

No, we're not. Capitalism just, you know, and that drive for like everybody's going to be in work and we're pretty busy and you know, just all these things that are constructed just to keep us away from each other.

[Podcast Host]

Yeah. The amount of hours we have to put into working and then recovery from the work.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Who's going to have a time to go and talk to anybody on a bench? It's, it's a, it's mind blowing that it is a luxury.

[Guest]

But yet. So yeah, when we started off, you know, saying that actually to be seen and understood and heard is. It's fundamentally what we need, isn't it, as a human. So therefore why don't we see having time to spend talking and properly active listening with people as a pastime that we should invest in.

[Podcast Host]

I really think for me it's like the most obvious change. You know, as we've discussed that the first thing people need to time.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

We've been able to have a lovely chat this afternoon because we both weirdly have time. Jury service, you could have easily been called, you know, your name chosen. That's gone. I'm talking to someone completely different today and it's not the same conversation.

[Interjecting Voice]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

And I'm very lucky to have time as well. But yeah, the obvious thing that that needs to happen is it's a four day week.

[Guest]

Yeah, right, Absolutely.

[Podcast Host]

It just seems like so incredibly sensible. The difference between a five two and a four, three. Four, three sounds like almost like a balance to me. Five, two is not a balance. You know, five people playing on a football team and two people on the side. Not a great balance. Who's going to win. Yeah.

[Guest]

And when they've done studies on that, I think I'm right in saying that they've made people more productive because you are so glad you have got more

[Podcast Host]

balance without being too. I don't even know. I don't know if this is qualified as a kind of conspiracy theory thought. But if indeed productivity is on par with a four day week. They're like, what is there to be scared of really? It's like. And then you actually start thinking, well, are governments stressed about the idea of people having time? Because if you have time, you have ideas.

[Guest]

Revolution. Yeah, you have ideas, you make a revolution. Exactly. You start thinking, well, that's it. That's what.

[Podcast Host]

People be busy. You start having conversations. When you have conversations, you start thinking, God, these people aren't the enemy. They're just like. They're just like me and you, or like, we've been made for this and this and this. About so, so and so. So. It's mad, isn't it?

[Guest]

Isn't it?

[Podcast Host]

It's absolutely mad world.

[Guest]

It is a mad world. When you got time to stop and think. It really is

[Podcast Host]

on this bridge we don't know the name of. They should name it after us. Congratulations. Sometimes I've got a good 20 minutes in without asking the first question. I actually haven't asked it and you haven't answered it. So I feel like just for. Just to have that for those people who may be stressing going. She never answered the first question. I don't know how many of those people are there, but maybe also I'm one of them. If I'm also kind of looping background,

[Guest]

but, you know, still stick. Stick with it.

[Podcast Host]

Also, before I answer this question, sorry, I just need to have some jelly babies because my blood.

[Guest]

My blood sugar, I've not had anything to eat.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, no.

[Guest]

Biscuit.

[Podcast Host]

Oh. Oh, take a biscuit. Yeah, I'm gonna have this and also I'm gonna have that. I'm type one diabetic, so.

[Guest]

Oh, gosh. You really do need to.

[Podcast Host]

My blood sugars. I started going a bit funny.

[Guest]

See what the time is. We're okay. Oh, it's half four. I'm meeting my friend at quarter.

[Podcast Host]

How long have you got?

[Guest]

Meant to be meeting it. Oh, my goodness. At quarter past five. So it's half four now, but to get to.

[Podcast Host]

Oh, God. Have you got to get somewhere?

[Guest]

Yeah, but I can put it a bit later. I can do it later.

[Podcast Host]

We can raise through these four last. I can't open this thing. Open this. Amoretti.

[Guest]

God, that time was just whizz. That's amazing. And that's because it's good. That's because it's good. Proper in the moment together. In the early years world in the reception age that I teach. My whole background is in that. It's called sustained shared thinking. When you're really properly in something together and you're solving something through your thoughts really properly shared, rather than just about waiting for your turn and not listening and not building on. Isn't it know. And yeah. That we've. We've been in that.

[Podcast Host]

Totally.

[Guest]

Oh, I've got. Could have offered you an orange as well. I've got.

[Podcast Host]

Got a tangerious the biscuit is perfect.

[Guest]

You are welcome to the orange as well, if you need. Yeah, but I'm worried about you. Now you've just told me your blood sugar level is low. Do you need to check anything?

[Podcast Host]

No, no, I have. It's on my wrist, so I can. I can see. It's absolutely fine.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

Anyway, Right, first. Yeah, favourite day of the week for the completionist.

[Guest]

Yeah, after the completionist. Yes, Friday, because I've always worked full time, so last day of work and that's all that potential of the time off ahead of you. And it's often sometimes where the magic happens in work because people's shoulders go down a little bit, people are a little bit nicer to each other, you relax a little bit more. Certainly in the classroom sometimes that used to happen. My colleague and I that talk really closely together. We notice sometimes magical things would happen on a Friday and we think, well, is it because we live slightly more relaxed? I don't know, more present, more in the moment. But Fridays have always been a good day, working wise. And then Saturday, because then Saturday you've got the whole of the weekend to go.

[Podcast Host]

I quite like those answers because they almost like reinforce everything you've kind of said about society and the time.

[Guest]

Yeah, it kind of has to be

[Podcast Host]

Saturday, but it's like you've been told it's Saturday.

[Guest]

Basically, that's when I can connect with all the people I want to connect with and I'm not bound by all of this work.

[Podcast Host]

So you're allowed to do it?

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

I mean, that was another thing we haven't done. We completely circumvented your whole kind of teaching life, which I think is like, obviously an incredible, beautiful profession. It's always been little.

[Guest]

Yes, I trained for primary, but I always taught all the different schools. I taught reception all year one and two, but really reception mainly year one and two for only one year. So I just sort of became a bit of a specialist within that. And then when I came out of teaching to do my advisory role, which I'm doing now, it was always around really young kids and they're just great. They're just great. I mean, they're just sponges and they're just there themselves generally. More so at that age, it's a pleasure to work with.

[Podcast Host]

Because I haven't got much time. I normally ask a few questions before we get to this kind of question, but can you think of a. A moment of teaching that kind of defines why it is so important to you or what?

[Guest]

Yeah, I mean I can think of one little girl and you know, one of many hopefully. But it's so important to get to know them as real individuals and just being able to do, say the right thing at the right time that helps them have that trust in you and you see a bit of breakthrough in some learning. And I can really remember that with this little girl, she wouldn't always say a lot but just by spending a little bit of time with her around something that she has been interested in, having taken an interest in some she's been doing at home, something was pertinent to her. She then later on, not long after was with me, sitting beside me and then started to write all of this sort of stuff down in a very early yearsy sort of way. But she presented this sort of writing, this emergent writing which is such an important stage for them when they're that age, to recognise that you can put something down that you want to communicate on paper is huge. And all of these sort of bits came out and she shared with me what that meant and what it was saying and it was lovely. And it completely linked back to the little bit of time that we'd had earlier in that day, earlier in the afternoon even or morning that she'd obviously felt that trust enough to then come and be, you know, take that risk and do that with me. And it was, it was really wonderful because it was a gateway for her to sort of start, you know, putting her thoughts down and it just emphasized how precious it is to spend that time. I mean, gosh, that's just what we've been talking about. Spend that time with Kit on a one to one. Get to know what makes them tick. Yeah, lots of lovely moments.

[Podcast Host]

I'm a man of my word. We said it earlier and I want to do it because I've never done it before. I am going to leave you for how long do you want?

[Guest]

Am I just going to be talking?

[Podcast Host]

You know you can kind of reflect on what it's been like for you or like anything you want. You're up for that?

[Guest]

Well, absolutely, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

So I'll leave you. I'll give you a couple of minutes.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, okay.

[Podcast Host]

Are you okay with my bag?

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, of course, yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, see you in two, three minutes. So I've just left her, I'm walking down the street and let's see what she says. I'm obviously not going to know what she says until later.

[Guest]

Well, that was amazingly interesting. Who would have predicted that my day would end up like this? I'M blown away because I've just been listening to this podcast for the first time this week, having read an article about it in the paper, and then to be approached to be the stranger on the bench. Amazing. And it's just been so rich to have that time to have a conversation with. With a stranger and to be tuned into, if I'm honest, you know, like that that's. Talking and listening to each other and perhaps some of the things that we talked about maybe might show why I found it so valuable. So thank you. I really enjoyed it and I'm so glad I was on this bench and took the plunge to do it and didn't hide away, which is possibly a tendency. My expectations were much higher. Much higher. My day certainly turned out differently and I'm so glad it did.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, I'm going to go back to her now and see if she's still, still there. Back I go.

[Guest]

Can't wait to tell my partner about how my day turned out.

[Podcast Host]

I'm back. I've returned.

[Guest]

Thanks for coming back.

[Podcast Host]

How did you get. How did it get on?

[Guest]

Well, I just. We just talked.

[Podcast Host]

Whatever you did is magic.

[Guest]

I'm just processing some of it, I think. Great.

[Podcast Host]

This podcast has made you. Just doing this made me realize if you have like any idea that can be done, you should do it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

You know, if it comes up as a kind of like Sin City thing, if it's possible to try it.

[Guest]

Absolutely. Have the fun. Take it while it's there. It's a lesson for all of us, isn't it, really? I think there's room for a bit more of that in my life, definitely.

[Podcast Host]

Okay, we've probably reached the end and there's one final question.

[Interjecting Voice]

Okay.

[Podcast Host]

The last question is, what are you going to do next?

[Guest]

What am I going to do next? What I'm going to do next right now is go and drive to see my friend, which would be lovely. And yeah, then looking to certainly retiring out of full time work at some point. But whether that means I do go down another avenue and do some other work or whether I come out of it completely and just decide what I want to do and maybe go back to doing something else later, I don't know. Definitely feels like I'm a bit of a junction. I'm itching to do something else.

[Podcast Host]

The itchy junction. No, I was gonna call their momo.

[Guest]

Let's not call the bridge this. No, it's not a good name.

[Podcast Host]

Everyone comes here when they're in a juncture of their lives to sit and ponder. Should I ask a passing person if they know the name of this?

[Guest]

No. The bridge. Yeah.

[Podcast Host]

Hi there. Sorry to bother you. Do you know the name of this bridge?

[Guest]

Has it got a name?

[Podcast Host]

Has it got a name?

[Guest]

I don't think it does.

[Podcast Host]

Cliff Bridge, isn't it? Cliff Bridge, you think?

[Guest]

Is it? We should know. The body of water. Yeah. The river.

[Podcast Host]

We've heard of things.

[Guest]

River, river, river.

[Podcast Host]

And you think it's Cliff Bridge. Bridge.

[Guest]

This is Cliff High Street.

[Podcast Host]

Because it's only a little one. Maybe it doesn't have a name. We're hoping it's okay. Google Maps doesn't name it. Oh, there we go.

[Guest]

There we go. There we go. We can name it.

[Podcast Host]

It's coming. It's coming.

[Guest]

Lovely.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you very much. We're over the ooze.

[Guest]

Over the ooze. There we go. That answered that.

[Podcast Host]

That's a nice word, isn't it? Well, good luck with this, all this

[Guest]

junctiony business and thank you very much. I've had a. Really enjoyed.

[Podcast Host]

Thank you very much.

[Guest]

It's flown by.

[Podcast Host]

Thank the justice system as well.

[Guest]

Absolutely, I will. When I go in tomorrow or whenever I get the next.

[Podcast Host]

The person who pulled the cards out.

[Guest]

Yeah. I'm really, really glad they didn't pull them. Oh, I know. You know.

[Podcast Host]

And yeah, good luck.

[Interjecting Voice]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Thank you. And good luck with keeping doing this. And I just can't. I can't believe that that's happened today. It's just amazing. Timing is everything, isn't it?

[Podcast Host]

It really is.

[Interjecting Voice]

I never felt so seen and understood. When you've got the time to stop and think oh, just on the cross. Magical things can happen on a day There. Take it while it's there. Let's just try. There's no question that this is who I need to be with. I was too busy. What are we scared of? We were just staying up and talking all night. A song came on the radio. There was this longing. What am I scared? Magical things can happen any day. We're all just people.

[Guest]

Oh,

[Interjecting Voice]

what are we scared of? What are we scared of? What are we scared of? When you've got time to stop and

[Guest]

think

[Interjecting Voice]

Just on the cross.