EPISODE 92: Stand By Me

Summary

Strangers on a Bench – EPISODE 92: Stand By Me

Release Date: June 15, 2026
Host: Tom Rosenthal

Episode Overview

In this moving and intimate episode, Tom Rosenthal sits on a London park bench with an anonymous stranger and unfolds a heartfelt conversation about loss, grief, finding joy in everyday life, and embracing new beginnings—all culminating in a spontaneous, cathartic rendition of "Stand By Me." The guest reflects on the death of her husband, the pockets of joy that still fill her days, and the often-complex dance between memory and moving forward. With warmth, candour, and unexpected laughter, the pair examine life's most profound and mundane moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Comfort of Rain and Everyday Peace

• Days Off and the Midweek "Island":
  • Guest loves Wednesdays because she has them off ("You're on your own special island." [01:26])
• Water as a Source of Calm:
  • Describes how simply watching water brings her peace.
  • Relates to rain sounds helping her alleviate anxiety and find brief moments of stillness ("The sound of rain, that's my go to when I'm at home and I just need a bit of sound in the background, especially in the evening. I've played Play Rain." [02:32–02:42])
• Coping with Anxiety:
  • Rain sounds became important after her husband’s death:

    "So, like, I lost my husband three years ago, and I have moments where my anxiety can be quite heightened. ... I think going through something like that, I've had to try and find those things that do bring me that peace..." ([03:51])

Memories of Marriage & Partnership

• Meeting and Falling in Love:
  • Met her husband at work; describes an awkward yet charming first date at Nando’s where he disregarded his own advice about "messy foods."
  • Bonds over mutual “bonkers” qualities ("He would cook a meal and use every single utensil possible." [05:22])
• Support and Acceptance:
  • Moments of being fully accepted and emotionally supported made her realize the relationship's depth ("I just felt in that moment, I was like, oh, this person just likes me for who I am. I can just be me... that was the moment when I was like, yeah, this feels right." [07:21])
• Workplace Romance:
  • Navigating the balance between personal and professional; openness with colleagues.

A Surprising Proposal & Wedding Reflections

• Proposal Story:
  • Husband proposed at his own surprise birthday party; guest was completely shocked and initially froze, needing her mother to prod her to answer ("He was on one knee...I just froze. Like, I didn't [answer] and then my mum had to give me the little—you need to answer..." [10:03, 10:46])
  • Humorous details: his nan taking the chance to write on his T-shirt during the proposal.
• Private Moment at the Wedding:
  • Most cherished wedding memory was a quiet, solitary moment in the bathroom, realizing her own happiness and acceptance of the unpredictability of life:

    "...just looking at myself and being happy. ...that realization of, ‘I'm happy and this is happy,’ and sometimes you just don't know where you're gonna be at a certain age..." ([14:44])

Grief: Process, Surprises, and Coexisting Joy

• Non-linear Journey:
  • Grief described as unpredictable, not following any “rulebook”:

    "What I found surprising about grief is it's not linear. ...You have days where you feel fine... then you have moments where it actually hits you again." ([27:22])

• Leaning on Support:
  • Stresses the importance of friends, family, and counseling.
• Coping with Memories:
  • Vividly recalls shared laughter over spilled arancini, using such happy memories to get through hard times.

    "I always go back to that moment because it was just a moment of just pure laughter..." ([28:44])

Living with Loss and Learning to Move Forward

• On Her Husband’s Passing:
  • He died unexpectedly in his sleep from illness; she was at her grandfather’s at the time.
  • Describes the moment she got the call and being held by her grandfather as "something that will stick with me forever" ([33:13–34:18])
  • Grapples with guilt over not being there; acknowledges the reality that the outcome would not have changed.
• Thankfulness in Retrospect:
  • Wishes she had explicitly thanked her husband “for giving me the opportunity to experience love on that level…for showing me that I can just be me, and that is enough.” ([36:38])

Little Pockets of Joy

• Seeking Small Moments:
  • Finds joy in the everyday: sitting in the park, cooking, or just having a cup of tea.

    "Those little things that happen that aren't big, but actually you can find joy in them... I have learned to appreciate more than the bigger things..." ([20:03])

• Learning Something New:
  • Intent on learning to play the keyboard; has one set up and visible at home ("So I have a keyboard, but it's just sat there. ...But the first thing is you've got one." [21:37–21:49])
  • Host encourages her to sing and play, even suggesting "Stand By Me" as a good starter ([23:41])
• Overcoming Hesitance:
  • Often talks herself out of things due to “what ifs” ("What if I go away and this happens?" [25:01]), but is motivated to try and do more, inspired by her husband's inability to do so now.

Openness to the Future

• Potential for New Love:
  • Mixed feelings—sometimes contemplates future relationships, but fears betraying her husband’s memory or risking loss again ("I can't do that to his memory... you have moments of feeling very lonely, but then I have moments of... would I like to experience what I experienced with my husband again?" [39:23])
• Main Goal:
  • To take each day as it comes and to allow herself small joys and opportunities for growth.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Seeking Peace:

  "Sometimes your brain just feels like it's always working at 100 miles per hour. So I think just anything that just slows it down." – Guest ([03:11])

• On Being Accepted:

  "This guy just likes me for what he sees...I can just be me kind of thing." – Guest ([07:21])

• On Grief:

  "Grief is a journey, and it's a journey that you have to take at your own pace." – Guest ([27:22])

• On Letting Happiness In:

  "Sometimes we don't stop to do that...I think it was a moment where I looked at the beauty, just the beauty of my life and the beauty of the moment." – Guest ([17:04])

• On Little Joys:

  "Those little things that happen that aren't big, but actually you can find joy in them." – Guest ([20:03])

• On Memories and Fear of Forgetting:

  "My fear was, I don't want to forget anything. I want to, you know, just put it in this box and tie it up. So I think when... I remember moments, and I'm like, okay, I've still got them." – Guest ([30:29])

• On the Spontaneity of Life:

  "Sometimes you've just got to take on that opportunity and you don't know what joy you get from it. I was so joyous. There you go. That's my joy for the day is I sung Stand By Me in the park on the bench with a stranger." – Guest ([47:54])

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Important Timestamps

• [03:51] – Guest opens up about her husband's death and how it shaped her need for calm.
• [05:22–07:21] – Falling in love, support in vulnerable moments, the joy of being oneself.
• [10:03–12:04] – Proposal story: frozen reaction, mum's intervention, communal celebration.
• [14:44–17:04] – Wedding memory: lone bathroom reflection, self-acceptance, talking to her younger self.
• [27:22–28:44] – Reflections on the surprising, cyclical nature of grief; support systems.
• [28:44–30:12] – Memory of disastrous arancini becomes a symbol of enduring love and joy.
• [33:13–34:18] – The loss phone call: collapsing into her grandfather's arms.
• [36:38–38:14] – On what she would say to her late husband if she could: gratitude and thank you.
• [47:05–47:54] – The "Stand By Me" duet, embracing joy through vulnerability.

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Memorable Moment: The "Stand By Me" Duet

[46:14–47:54]
Tom gently urges the guest to sing with him; after some initial reluctance, they share a spontaneous rendition of "Stand By Me" on the bench, much to their mutual delight.

"Oh, my gosh. That was so fun. ...That’s my joy for the day is I sung Stand By Me in the park on the bench with a stranger." – Guest
"That was a big joy for me. That’s the first time I’ve done that." – Tom

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Conclusion

This episode is a gentle, poignant meditation on grief, resilience, and the incremental reclaiming of happiness after loss. It reminds listeners of the significance of small joys, the lasting impact of love, and the quiet bravery required to keep rediscovering oneself. The anonymous guest’s openness is matched by Tom’s sensitive questions, leaving both the participants—and the listeners—richer for their ten minutes on a London bench.

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For listeners seeking an episode about the real fabric of a life—woven with laughter, loss, ordinariness, and eventual hope—this is a must-listen, with one of the most memorable podcast endings of the season.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. You feeling ready?

[Guest]

Yes, ready.

[Interviewer]

Superb. Yeah. If there any question you don't like, just say don't like it.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Do you need a safe word?

[Guest]

The word that came to my head was pineapple, but I feel like it's

[Interviewer]

just a good word. It's a good word.

[Guest]

Yeah. I'll just say pineapple. I'm ready.

[Interviewer]

Do you have a favorite day of the week?

[Guest]

Wednesday.

[Interviewer]

Straight in there, no doubt.

[Guest]

Yeah. I don't work Wednesdays.

[Interviewer]

That's why you don't work Wednesdays?

[Guest]

No, I don't work weekends either. But I think there's something different about having a day off in the week, because even, like, coming here, it's a lot more peaceful than if I came on the weekend.

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Guest]

It feels that little bit nicer.

[Interviewer]

You're on your own special island.

[Guest]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

And we're on an island as well.

[Guest]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

An island. On an island.

[Guest]

Exactly. Although I wish it was an island that had nicer sand, nicer weather, but. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

There's no sand in London.

[Guest]

No, not in London.

[Interviewer]

There's like a bit by the Thames. If you're, like, you're lucky, go down. That's not.

[Guest]

No. Not dipping my toes in the Thames. I don't think that sounds nice.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely. Have you ever touched the Thames with your hands?

[Guest]

No.

[Interviewer]

No. How do you feel when you look upon a river like that,

[Guest]

the Thames? I don't know how to like water in general. I think it's quite peaceful to see water.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

But you look at the Thames and then you see the boats coming past, then you see the color of the water and. Yeah, but I can appreciate water. I just find water quite peaceful. And when you hear water, I like the sound of water.

[Interviewer]

Like a dripping tap.

[Guest]

Maybe not a dripping tap because that means something's wrong, but like. Like a waterfall or even rain. I love rain.

[Interviewer]

Oh, do you?

[Guest]

The sound of rain, that's my go to when I'm at home and I just need a bit of sound in the background, especially in the evening. I've played Play Rain.

[Interviewer]

Play Rain?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Well, not just what you just type in. Rain.

[Guest]

Yeah, rain sounds. Rain sounds, yeah. There's so many playlists, of course, rain sounds.

[Interviewer]

I mean, you know, if you had to get particular about, you know, your type of rain sound, that you favor. What would you say?

[Guest]

Just like a light drizzle? Like, it's that feeling of being inside and the rain just hitting the window. Can you.

[Interviewer]

Can you trace why you find the peaceful? Do you think you didn't have an answer?

[Guest]

Yeah, my life. Or sometimes your brain just feels like it's always working at 100 miles per hour. So I think just anything that just slows it down.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then. So when you see it's raining, if you wake up one morning, you see it's raining outside, do you. Do you just feel joyous?

[Guest]

Yeah, I like it. I mean, I feel more joyous when I see sunshine.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

But I'm not that person. You know, when someone sees it's raining, they're like, oh, it's raining. I just like. I don't know. Oh, it's raining. Beautiful. And it's so natural, isn't it? Like, we need rain.

[Interviewer]

So definitely. So when you put it on, you say you need to de stress or just calm down. What's making you stressed at the moment?

[Guest]

So, like, I lost my husband three years ago, and I have moments where my anxiety can be quite heightened or more. My emotions are quite heightened, and I just need to bring it down and just have a moment. And I think, yeah, rain sounds or even just sitting here and you just hear the wind. I don't know if it's a distraction of you connect to the sound and therefore it just brings you that calm. And I think going through something like that, I've had to try and find those things that do bring me that peace and that calmness. And, yeah, I just need moments where just feels like it can just stop for a moment and I can just concentrate on that one thing.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So prior to losing your husband, rain sounds weren't part of your life? This is after.

[Guest]

No, this is after.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What would your husband think of this, your rain sound affection?

[Guest]

Probably think I'm a bit bonkers. But then I would then play it and he would be like, oh, actually, yeah. Yeah, this is good. That happened with a lot of things with my husband that there was things. He's like, nope, don't get it. And then he'd be, like, enjoying it, but he wouldn't say it. But he'd definitely think I was a little bit bonkers. There's nothing wrong with bonkers.

[Interviewer]

Did he have any bonkers in him?

[Guest]

Oh, yeah. Yeah, 100%.

[Interviewer]

What was his bonkers business, Billy?

[Guest]

Oh, that's a good question. I feel like Just the way he did things, like he would cook a meal and use every single utensil possible.

[Interviewer]

Get them all out, all out.

[Guest]

And I'm just like. It'd be a rolling pin being used and there's no baking or anything. Yeah, that's what I loved about him. He was just a bit bonkers and a bit. But I feel like I was a little bit bonkers. So we just both worked. It just worked well.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How did you meet?

[Guest]

Work. We met through work and then I think he was trying to, like, go out with me a few times. I was like, oh, should we go out? And I was like, no, I'm busy. No, I'm going out with. And like, I'd say going out with someone else that was at work and then that person come to me later and be like, apparently we're going out. Yeah, apparently we're going out somewhere. And then eventually we just went to the cinema and for Anando's, and then from there we just.

[Interviewer]

What film did you see?

[Guest]

It was a Fast and Furious, but I can't remember which one.

[Interviewer]

I can't remember a lot of them.

[Guest]

Yeah, there's loads. It was 2013, so it's whichever one

[Interviewer]

came out that day, 2013. Did you. Were you focused on the film or focus on him? What was the vibe?

[Guest]

I think I was focused on the film, but that was more. Because I hadn't seen the one before that, so I didn't know what was going on.

[Interviewer]

They're just being really fast and really furious. They're just going around.

[Guest]

Yeah. And when we went Fernando's, I remember him, he was saying, oh, on a first date, you never eat anything that gets stuck in your teeth or you have to eat with your hands and gets messy. And he had chicken wings and corn

[Interviewer]

on the cob as he was saying this.

[Guest]

Yeah, exactly. And that's what I was saying about being bonkers. Yeah. It was then I was like, do you know what? I like this guy. I think he's funny.

[Interviewer]

What was the moment after that? I mean, maybe it was that moment, but, like, where you felt something kind of click and like, this is a extra special connection.

[Guest]

I think it was when I went through a situation with some friends and this was at, like, the beginning when we started dating. And he was very supportive of him, very good at listening. And I was really, like, emotional and stuff. And I think it was in that moment I was like, it doesn't matter my flaws or who I am. This guy just likes me for what he sees. Kind of Thing. And I think I was always that person that just felt like I was in the background. And I think I compensated that sometimes for being loud and stuff. And I just felt in that moment, I was like, oh, this person just likes me for who I am. I can just be me kind of thing. And I think that was the moment when I was like, yeah, this feels right.

[Interviewer]

How was work? I mean, being at work with him after you started seeing each other? What was that?

[Guest]

Yeah, I. That was one of my worries was work and then personal and, you know, blurring those lines. But actually, it was. It was actually fine.

[Interviewer]

Did people know?

[Guest]

Yeah, no, we did tell. We did tell people, because.

[Interviewer]

Did you have to tell people straight away? I mean, like, say, oh, we're. We're going on dates, or then did you wait until you're actually, like, an official couple?

[Guest]

So I think we waited until we were an official couple, and we told the manager because we were different levels. And he was like, yep, happy. That's fine. Thank you for letting me know. And then I think the rest just came. Either we told people or people just knew.

[Interviewer]

Like, they saw you in the stationary cupboard.

[Guest]

Exactly, exactly, exactly. Pretending we were in there to get pens. The notepad.

[Interviewer]

I think I've run out of pens again.

[Guest]

And they'll be like, emmy, use a computer.

[Interviewer]

I love it. And then fast forward. You're getting married.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

How long? How long with what? We.

[Guest]

So I got married 2016.

[Interviewer]

Okay. So that's.

[Guest]

Yeah. September. Yeah. Ten years ago this year. And it was.

[Interviewer]

What was the wedding like?

[Guest]

It was wonderful. It was chaotic. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Actually, before we get to the day, just realize. Proposal.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What was that?

[Guest]

Like, was quite interesting because it was his 30th, and I planned this surprise. Well, I thought it was a surprise.

[Interviewer]

You. You were planning a surprise? For his 30th.

[Guest]

For his 30th.

[Interviewer]

Got it.

[Guest]

But he had told his best friend that he wanted to propose. So his best friend said, oh, she's planning this surprise 30th for you.

[Interviewer]

Reverse surprise.

[Guest]

Yeah. Why didn't you surprise her with the proposal? So all our family came together, did the surprise thing. He pretended he was shocked. He was like, oh, my God. Then later on, the Kate comes out. We sing Happy Birthday. And then I think I was. Yeah. I wasn't facing. And then everyone was like. And I was like, what's going on? What's going on? And I turned around, and he was on one knee. Proposal. And I just froze. And he asked the question, and I just froze. Like, I didn't and then my mum had to give me the little. You need to answer. And I was, like, kind of, like, intense.

[Background Singer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can you. Can you describe, like, what was kind of going through your mind at that moment?

[Guest]

I was, like, confused. No, I'm. I'm doing the surprise, like. And then I think it was that moment of realizing, wow, this person wants to be with me for, you know, the rest of my life kind of thing. We'd spoken about marriage, but I'd never said I want to get married. I never said I didn't. So I think it shocked me. And then I think everybody was just looking at me and I was just like, all these eyes on me, kind of. And then.

[Interviewer]

How did that feel?

[Guest]

It's like it went silent. But you can see all these eyes on you. And it's like I was in slow motion.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And I could just see all these people looking at me and making faces, but I couldn't hear the noise. And then I think it was until my mum tapped me and then I was like, back in the room kind of thing. I think it was the next day when it hit me. And it was so lovely to just be with friends and family. I think that just followed through into our wedding. We just wanted it to be really meaningful to us and be how we wanted it to be. And it was. Yeah, it was perfect.

[Interviewer]

Back to the proposal for a second. What point did you say yes? Then? Assuming you said yes, maybe. Maybe you delayed.

[Guest]

I did, but it was like a. Yeah, it wasn't a yes. It wasn't a.

[Interviewer]

You're trying to get words out.

[Guest]

Yeah. And I don't know, if my mum hadn't given me that nudge, I don't know how long I would have been standing there frozen.

[Interviewer]

It's funny, I was just thinking as you were talking about it, of all the questions you're asked, it's one of the ones where you probably should deliberate it for the maximum amount of time. And it's funny to think in the setup you actually get no time to think about it.

[Guest]

It's so true. Just realise and, you know, you do see and hear people that go away from it, and then now they've had time to think about and they're like, oh, I think I might have made the wrong decision. And it's so true. Anything. I think life changing. We do, like, say, I need to go and think about that. Can I have a moment? Kind of. Something so life changing. You have to answer in that moment.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. And even more so, I suppose, when you Got how many eyes do you think you're on? You.

[Guest]

Exactly, exactly.

[Interviewer]

That's also very niche as an experience. This idea of being asked a question and people waiting for you to say the answer, but, like, en masse. A lot of people looking, you know.

[Guest]

Yeah. I guess that pressure of there's a room now of people that you could either make happy or make upset, rather than just one person. But I think he knew that it was the right time. He knew it was the right kind of occasion and it was, because it was so nice to then be able to do that with people that you love. Yeah. And have them around you.

[Interviewer]

So it's definitely memorable.

[Guest]

Yes, definitely memorable. Yes, definitely. And I think even amongst my friends and family, it's still very memorable because even when he was down on one knee, so he had a T shirt on that people were, like, signing, like, putting messages on. And as he went down on one knee, his nan was like, no, this is my time to wipe my message. He's nice and low.

[Interviewer]

I can write my brilliant.

[Guest]

Whilst he's proposing.

[Interviewer]

She rocks up.

[Guest]

She's just there writing.

[Interviewer]

Hold that thought. This is my perfect level.

[Guest]

Yeah. And even in the pictures, you can see he's on one knee and his nan's just on his back with the pen signing the top. And that's what I love about it. It's like, it's a thing we can laugh about and talk about.

[Interviewer]

Beautiful. And then let's fast forward to the wedding. Lots of questions one can ask about wedding, but can you think of the bit of it that you remember? But it's not necessarily a spectacular moment, but a kind of. A gentle, kind of mundane moment of it. Like a moment that for some reason stayed with you.

[Guest]

I think it was. I remember I went to the toilet and it was just me and it's like a busy day. There's people all around you from, like, it was six in the morning. And I remember I was just. It was just me in the toilet and I think I just looked in the mirror. I don't know. It was that realization of, like, this is one of the happiest moments of my life and just looking at myself and being happy. I never shared that with anybody, but I think it was just that moment for me, that realization of I'm happy and this is happy, and sometimes you just don't know where you're gonna be at a certain age or. I don't know. Sometimes we have these. These plans that we think, oh, by this age, I'm gonna be doing this And I didn't have any of that. And I had all these things that, you know, my friends were doing, I wasn't doing. And I was like, I don't know what my life's gonna look like or what it's gonna be. And just that moment of realising that, like, my life is okay and it's good, and that sometimes you just have to let life just take you where it needs to take you. And things will happen at the time that they need to. It was just having that time. Just me. Just me.

[Interviewer]

Great answer. Also counts probably, for your favorite toilet moment as well.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

If I'll ask you what's your favorite moment in the toilet?

[Guest]

That is exactly.

[Interviewer]

That probably covers that one.

[Guest]

That is exactly that.

[Interviewer]

Two for the price of one. When you were looking at yourself in the mirror that moment.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, with mirrors, you know, they tend to be around our spaces. We look at them every now and again and kind of check in with ourselves. Do you think, in a sense, you're like. You're checking in with yourself, like, all the way down the line is that kind of. You were speaking to all the different versions of yourself somehow?

[Guest]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

Almost like you were speaking to the journey as well.

[Guest]

Exactly that. And I felt like it was me talking to younger me and just saying, see, everything is okay kind of thing.

[Interviewer]

And we did it.

[Guest]

We did it. Exactly. We did it. You thought you weren't. You had all these doubts, you had all these fears. And I think, yeah, it was just in that moment where I just had no fear. I think sometimes we can use a mirror to look at the flaws we have or, you know, the things that don't look right then. I think it was a moment where I looked at the beauty, just the beauty of my life and the beauty of the moment. And I think sometimes we don't stop to do that.

[Interviewer]

When you look in a mirror now, what are you saying to yourself now?

[Guest]

So I think now I would see a bit of sadness to do with the things I've gone through in the past few years, but also that sadness of looking and feeling like I'm missing those moments, those moments of enjoying that time in your life or something you've gone through. And I feel like now I look in the mirror and I do the opposite. Rather than thinking and looking and being like, you know what? I'm here. Like, I'm going for a walk or it's a nice day, I kind of look at as. It's just me. I just see me in this lonely figure, and I do have people. But I think I. Yeah. I visualize my life and myself very different to that day, you know, nearly 10 years ago. But just now talking about the wedding day and engagement and I'm like, oh, there are. I have had some joyous moments. And there's still a snapshot now by just talking about it. And actually it's not gone. Like, it feels like. Yeah. That you take that picture and then it's a raise. But actually those. Those pictures are still there. Those memories are still there.

[Interviewer]

It sounds like, you know, they're still very much a part of you.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But now there are a few other parts.

[Guest]

Parts. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And when you looked in that mirror on that day, there wasn't anything else but the kind of pure joy of it.

[Guest]

Exactly. But I think it's finding pockets of joy in those moments that maybe don't feel it kind of Juno, you know, could be a sad day, but the sun shining and actually. Oh, the sun's shining. That's so nice. And just finding those little bits of joy, and I think that's what I'm learning to do and appreciate. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Where are your pockets of joy now? If you. If you think you have a last little pocket of joy that you experience, what would it have been?

[Guest]

I think stuff like this, like just here, when I sit here and I look out and I just appreciate what is on my doorstep. And then naturally that will give me some joy or I don't know, something silly like I'll cook a dinner and, oh, like, I made this kind of. And it tastes good. Those little things that happen that aren't big, but actually you can find joy in them. And they're the things that I have learned to appreciate more than the bigger things. Like the bigger things are still important, but I think we forget about the. The little things that actually mean just as much. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I feel like half of experiencing joy is just like, kind of looking out for it, I suppose.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You know. Yeah. That meal tonight could be joyous.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Not just a meal. So true. Are there any kind of pockets of joy you're wanting to or just actually not? What's not a pocket? Like a full bag?

[Guest]

Yeah. I don't know. Do you know why I think I say pockets? Because it's.

[Interviewer]

It's in between bits.

[Guest]

Yeah. And it's just fine in every moment you can. Rather than those big moments.

[Interviewer]

Whereas anything you're keen to try, you haven't tried yet. You're keen. I want to give that a kick. I reckon that might cause joy.

[Guest]

I have tasked Myself with this year, picking something up or learning something new.

[Interviewer]

Okay. And how's that going so far?

[Guest]

So I have a keyboard.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Guest]

And, you know.

[Interviewer]

So you have a keyboard.

[Guest]

I have a keyboard, but it's just sat there.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Well, I mean, collecting dust. Okay, well, the first thing is you've got one.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

So that's really good news.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Second, it's there. It's in a room somewhere. Or is it in a cupboard?

[Guest]

No, it's in a room. So I can see it. Okay.

[Interviewer]

It's a visual. No, you're not even. You're not hiding it away. So that's really good.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And piano is a really good instrument. It's all just. It's all in front of you. There's nothing hidden.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You know, it's like. It's there. It's, like, very. It's very learnable.

[Guest]

Yes, it is.

[Interviewer]

And I think. Really. Do you like to sing?

[Guest]

No, no, sorry. Yes, I like to sing. Whether I can sing is a different question. Okay.

[Interviewer]

Who told you you couldn't?

[Guest]

Do you know what? Nobody. I think I just hear myself and I'm like, yeah, don't sing. Or hear the little screeches I make. But I enjoy singing along to things. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What did your husband think of your singing voice?

[Guest]

He enjoyed when I would sing along to things. Like, he wouldn't tell me to stop singing.

[Interviewer]

Well, that's positive.

[Guest]

Yeah. But I never actually stood in front of people and sang, but I think I can. You know when you just feel like you can hear yourself and I. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. But we're not good judges sometimes of our own voices. Like, everyone hates their talky voice, for instance. You know what I mean?

[Guest]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

So I feel sometimes that's similar for singing.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

So we're not particularly fantastic judges of our own voices.

[Guest]

That's so true.

[Interviewer]

How are we gonna do it? Do you wanna sing now and I can just judge?

[Guest]

Let me.

[Interviewer]

I'll let you know.

[Guest]

No, no, no, no. Don't want your ratings to go down on the podcast. If I start singing.

[Interviewer]

What? If I started singing, would you join in with me?

[Guest]

No.

[Interviewer]

You sure?

[Guest]

No, I wouldn't.

[Interviewer]

Even if it's your favorite song?

[Guest]

Yeah. No, no.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Do we try? It would make it more memorable.

[Guest]

Oh, my gosh. No, no, I don't think.

[Interviewer]

Maybe I'll try again at the end of our chat to sing together.

[Guest]

Maybe I'll feel, like, ready to go. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Maybe this is just the. This is the start of your keyboard journey.

[Guest]

Yeah, I would love that. Keyboard and being able.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Guest]

And sing a lot like.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, well, look, you know, just. Just think. Think of that song. All right. We can do a real basic one. What's the most basic song? Stand By Me or something. Do you know what I mean? Like, it might be good, but even if. What's the worst can happen? We just. It's just two people singing, having a good time. Exactly.

[Guest]

Again, you know.

[Interviewer]

Pocket of joy.

[Guest]

Yeah, Pocket of joy.

[Interviewer]

And then you can say forevermore. You know, I once, you know, sang Stand by Me with a stranger at the top of a hill.

[Guest]

Yeah, that's so true.

[Interviewer]

You're talking yourself around. This is great positivity.

[Guest]

This is. Because normally I talk myself out of things.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Yes.

[Guest]

Trying to think of, like, how I would feel if I didn't. I feel like I would feel good. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Fantastic. What was the last thing you talked yourself out of?

[Guest]

A holiday.

[Interviewer]

So you what, you looked at the holiday, thought no.

[Guest]

Yeah. I wanted to do, like a solo travel.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Something we like. We, me and my husband loved going away. City break and I was going to go to Barcelona. Talked myself out of it.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

How do you talk yourself out of things?

[Guest]

Oh, no. But what if I go away and this happens? Or what if I get there and I don't like it and it's all the what ifs, and then it's like, you know, what if I don't book it? Then there's no what ifs, and then I'm good. I think it's just taking that leap because it stops me from doing things that I potentially want to do because I'm worried about those things that I don't have control over. And then it's that feeling after we. You're like, oh, kind of gutted because actually, I think I would have enjoyed it.

[Background Singer]

Or.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you basically, you took yourself to the water's edge.

[Guest]

Yes, exactly.

[Interviewer]

And you got. And you had your swimming costume on and then. But you did not go in that water.

[Guest]

I didn't go in the water. I threw the towel back on. I was like, nope. Went back. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But the good news is, yep, Barcelona is still there.

[Guest]

It is. And it can still happen. And that's what I said to myself. I was like, okay, it didn't happen this time. But I think it's thinking, then what do I need to do differently next time to not talk myself out of it. Yeah. And I think it's strange because with grief as well, it makes you realize, for example, when I think about my husband, all these things he can't do. He could never do. And I'm like, I have the opportunity to do these things, but, yeah. I think sometimes I feel like I'm letting moments in life pass me by. You know, you can't get that time back because I think it's so easy to talk yourself out of something, isn't it? It's easier than. Yeah. Doing it.

[Interviewer]

So true.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Well, maybe this is something else you need to get done.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Maybe if you sing Stand By Me at the end, that will, like, propel you on. It's like, look, if I can do that, then I can do anything. I can book the ticket to Barcelona today.

[Guest]

Yeah, that's so true.

[Interviewer]

Can I ask you about grief?

[Guest]

Yep.

[Interviewer]

What have you found surprising about the process so far?

[Guest]

What I found surprising about grief is it's not linear. There's no rule book. There's no this happens then. And just you have days where you feel fine and, you know, years go by and you're like, yeah, I'm good. And then you have moments where it actually hits you again. Yeah. I've realized grief is a journey, and it's a journey that you have to take at your own pace. But it's taught me to appreciate and acknowledge the things that I did get. It's a sadness, but actually that sadness can coexist with the memories you have that are joyous and that make you happy. But it's been hard. You know, I would never sit here and say that it's been fine. It's been very, very difficult. But I have, you know, leaned on people around me, friends, family, counseling, just anything to kind of support an understanding and being able to process and look at it differently.

[Interviewer]

What memory do you lean on to kind of pick you up, that lifts you related to your husband? What do you tend to go back to?

[Guest]

So I tend to go back to, like, things that make me smile or laugh. Like, he spent all day trying to make. Is it arancini balls?

[Interviewer]

Yes.

[Guest]

You know, following this recipe within the kitchen all day was like, don't disturb me. I want to make these. Made them. And as he was. I think he turned, hit the counter, and everything just fell on the floor. Like it was all over the floor. I just remember laughing, like, laughing so hard. And I remember him being so angry because he's like, I spent all day on these, and. And then him pausing for a moment, and then he started laughing. And we're just both there laughing. There's, like, sauce. And, you know, when. I don't know what it is, when you drop sauce. Sauce just seems to just go in. Yeah, it just goes in places. But you're like, why is it there? But I always go back to that moment because it was just a moment of, like, just pure laughter and we were just both crying. Yeah. It's memories like that where even now, just talking about it, I can just. I can just see us in that kitchen laughing together and just wait.

[Interviewer]

And then you get to try them.

[Guest]

No, we didn't. No, none survived. None survived. But I think. Yeah, it's just moments like that, they're the moments that I kind of lean on in times of like. Yeah. Sadness. They were good times.

[Interviewer]

When you see an Aaron Cheney ball on a menu somewhere, do you. Do you just go past it? Do you order it?

[Guest]

Oh, I've ordered it. And it just always. That story will forever sit with me. Yeah. Even I've not attempted it. Maybe it's something I need to attempt just to.

[Interviewer]

Maybe on an anniversary or something.

[Guest]

Yeah. Just be like, there you go. I did it.

[Interviewer]

And then make them and just chuck them.

[Guest]

And then chuck them on the floor. Literally save one and then chuck the rest on the floor. But, yeah, I think when you lose somebody as well, it also brings you joy when you can still visualize and see those moments. Because I think that was a fear of mine, was forgetting. As time pass, do we see forget? And I think my fear was, I don't want to forget anything. I want to, you know, just put it in this box and tie it up. So I think when I go through days like that and I remember moments, and I'm like, okay, I've still. I've still got them. Like, they're still up here. And, like, sometimes I think of them and it feels like it only happened yesterday, even though it happened 10, 12 years ago. And I think. I think in that moment, you don't realize as well that later on in life how valuable and important that moment is going to be to you today. That means so much to me. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Beautiful. Can I ask you about how he died? Was it sudden? Was it.

[Guest]

Yeah. No. So he was sick, and you have some things that he battled. So his illness was going to eventually, potentially kill him. But I think when he died, it wasn't expected. So he, like, gone to sleep, and they. They said he. Because I wasn't there. But they believed he died in his sleep. And I think for me, as sad as it was, I don't know if there was a piece about him dying in his sleep. That piece of knowing someone's not in pain?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

But I think you're never ready. When it happened, it just felt like someone just ripped my heart out. And I remember just collapsing. Like it's just. It's just everything so stops. It feels like your whole life, someone's just come in and smashed it to pieces. And then you're having to put those pieces back together, but they look a little differently, you know, a bit like a puzzle. There's that piece missing, but it can still create a picture even with that one bit missing. And it's just trying to glue and bind everything back together in a different way.

[Interviewer]

You say you weren't there, so you were. Does that mean you. What? Where was he?

[Guest]

So I was at my granddad's house. And then, yeah, I got the call and I just.

[Interviewer]

Who called you?

[Guest]

His mum.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Guest]

And I don't even know if I hung the phone up. I don't remember saying bye to her. I just remember my granddad was downstairs and he was in his 90s. And I just remember running downstairs and I just couldn't breathe. And my granddad's like. Like, I think he was saying, what's going on? Or whatever, and I just collapsed in his arms. And my granddad, like, he's from the Caribbean. He's like old school kind of. You get on with things. And I just remember he didn't say anything. He just held me. And that's a moment that sticks with me and will stick with me forever, is just in that moment of something so sad and so dark, just somebody and my grandad being that person that just held me and he just. Just holding me up.

[Background Singer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And I think that was something that, you know, ate me up, was not being there. When my husband did pass away, you know, he was not with anybody. What was his last thoughts? What's his last thoughts? Of feeling alone, thinking nobody's here. When I'm going through this final. This final moment in my life. And I think that ate away at me for a very long time of when you love somebody, you want to be there for them through every moment, you know, especially when they need you the most, you want to be there. And I beat myself up of thinking, you know, that was. That was a time when he needed me the most and I wasn't there. But. And I guess, yeah, whether you're there or you're not there, the outcome is still the same. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you say he wasn't. He wasn't. Well, yeah. Prior. Did he at all kind of prepare you for life after him? But did you Ever kind of discuss that?

[Guest]

Yeah. Like, he'd have, you know, conversations of like, oh, when I'm not here. And, like, even with his siblings, be like, oh, when I'm not here, make sure you look after her. And. But they weren't, like, comfortable conversations to have because you don't want to be preparing for life without someone. And it's like, if you don't talk about it, it might not. Like, we might be talking about something that never does happen kind of thing. I personally avoided those kind of conversations because I never wanted to think about life without, you know, someone you love so much, them not being here. And I think we probably all do that in things in life that we just stay in that bubble to keep ourselves safe.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. That makes so perfect. Perfect sense.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Maybe. Difficult question, but is there anything that you would have when you're looking back at it, think, I wish I told him this or this or this.

[Guest]

I do. You know what? I think you know, he knew that, you know, I loved him, and we did tell each other those kind of things. But I think if I could look back now, I probably would just say to him, if it's okay in terms of, you know, this happening, letting him know it's. It's okay, or I'll be okay. Yeah. Or just thank you. And I think that's. It is a thank you. We did part. I love you all of that, but never thank you for giving me the opportunity to experience love. Love on that level. And thank you for showing me that I can just be me. And that is enough. I learned so much about myself and my life. Thank you for, you know, the journey we did have and how we just grew on that journey together because we forget to thank people in our lives. And, like, even just as I sit here, I'm just like, there are so many people in my life that I just. I don't think I've ever said thank you because I don't know where, like, you say thank you to someone, they'll be like, what are you saying thank you for?

[Interviewer]

Like, no, exactly.

[Guest]

Do you know, like. Yeah, like, thank you for being my friend. What do you mean? Thank you for being my friend? Or, you know, because thank you even just thank you for being you.

[Interviewer]

Maybe you can have a thank you day.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Choose your thank you day.

[Guest]

I wouldn't be surprised if there's, like, a national thank you day. Anyway. I have to look that up in the calendar.

[Interviewer]

We can start it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Just getting a run of dirt just to do it on a day. Just Imagine that for a day.

[Guest]

Oh, gosh. Yeah. Thank you.

[Interviewer]

That'd be an emotional day.

[Guest]

Do the keyboard. Sing along on a song foot. Barcelona. I've got a list.

[Interviewer]

Looking ahead to the, you know, your future life.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know, you look like you have a lot of your life still to go.

[Guest]

I hope so.

[Interviewer]

Do you ever see a time in your life where there's space for someone else in your life and how do you feel about those things?

[Guest]

I have had moments of thinking, is this. Is this it? Is this my life? You know, is it just going to be me? And then I have moments of, would I kind of like to, you know, experience what I experienced with my husband again? And it's very conflicting, I think, because you have moments of feeling very lonely. But then I have moments of no, because I don't want to do something that means I've forgotten my husband. And that's when I'm like, no, no, no, I can't. I can't do that. I can't, you know, do that to his memory kind of thing. And then I think the other thing for me is. And very drastic, but it could happen again. And that's the other thing where I get that fear of loving, you know, somebody again with the potential of losing them, which. It's gonna happen.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

You know, that's a scary thought. Yeah. And I think it's hard because I'm in my 30s, so I still have, yeah. This whole life, you know, hopefully ahead of me. So, yeah, I'm not saying never, but I think, yeah, it's very difficult when you lose somebody and life still continues around you. Friends in relationships, people. You know, we didn't get to have a family, people have kids and all of that stuff, it doesn't stop. And that can also make it quite difficult, especially when it's things you wanted to do with that person, and it's now trying to understand that it will be with somebody else. And I think that's a process. My future, I just. I'll see. That's all I can do. Take each day, moment, week, month, year, as it comes. But I think I've just got to learn that I can still enjoy certain things for myself.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Well, I'm going to ask you three more questions.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Interviewer]

Then we're going to sing.

[Guest]

Oh, you didn't forget. I thought you forgot.

[Interviewer]

I'm not gonna forget. Okay, let's go. I'm gonna go for what is the most amusing scene you have seen recently out on your. Out on your travels with your own eyes. You've seen anything that's kind of made you chuckle.

[Guest]

So I think yesterday, where I live, they were doing some works and the guy was instructed to paint just a little bit on the side of the. The ramp to come out of the car park. Just this little patch on the side misunderstood, and you painted the whole. He painted the whole ramp. And then. So it was wet. We were trapped in the car park and couldn't come out, and then the cars couldn't come in. I just found that moment really funny of just someone being given an instruction and going wild with it and the consequences of it. And I know it was like there were people, like, they couldn't get into the car park and like, there were people, rightly so, were a bit frustrated, but I think I just found it really hilarious that I was like, oh, my God, he's just supposed to paint that one patch there. And he's painted this whole. This whole driveway. And he. He just didn't even have any thought of. It's wet. No one could drive on it. And I just found that really. I found that really funny. I don't know why, but it.

[Interviewer]

No, I like it.

[Guest]

I see why it made me laugh. Oh, I found it so funny. But I felt so sorry for the guy because he looked genuinely scared, like he was about to get in big.

[Interviewer]

At what point did he know realize he made an error?

[Guest]

I think it was when the cars were trying to get out. And then he realized he was like, oh, wait, because if I painted this, the cars can't drive it. And you could genuinely see his moment of like, I've messed up the paint there. I can't scrape it up. That. It was. Oh, it was, Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I love the idea of being given a kind of that. I feel like there's. There should be some kind of word for this, but, you know, you're given a little task and you just kind of make it massive.

[Guest]

Make it massive, make it work. I mean, that situation probably wasn't joyous for him, but it brought me joy and it made me laugh and chuckle. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so what I'm going to do, I'll ask you the last question.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then I'll get up the lyrics to this song. I'll start singing. Okay. No pressure, no pressure. You ready for the last question?

[Guest]

Go for it.

[Interviewer]

What are you going to do next?

[Guest]

Now I am going to go home and have a couple cup of tea and probably think about what I'm going to have for dinner.

[Interviewer]

What are you going to have for dinner?

[Guest]

I don't know, think about that if you want. Yeah. I actually. I feel like something with chickpeas or I feel like something with prawns, but I'm not sure what. But I will think about it over my cup of tea. That's my thinking time. Yeah. And then I'll probably be able to figure it out. Or end up being a takeaway.

[Interviewer]

Beautiful. Beautiful.

[Guest]

It'll be so relaxed.

[Interviewer]

You've earned your treat. After you enjoyed a whole conversation with a stranger on a bench.

[Guest]

Exactly. Especially if I've got a sing.

[Interviewer]

You need a prize. Exactly. Yeah. Especially if you've got a sink.

[Guest]

Yeah. Oh, this stress is singing. I'm like, no, just get a takeaway. Get pizza.

[Interviewer]

That's gonna be fine. I'm so serious about the sea singing that I'm going to get these. These boys and play some music. I'm going to get them to slightly move. I don't want to be distracted. Have a look. Have a look at the lyrics while I do that.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

I told those lads, I imagine they were like, very scary, you know, very scary youngsters. They were terrifying. You know, I just said, listen, there's just telling you something here. Do you mind just shooting off down the way, Moving out of the way, you know? Okay.

[Guest]

Oh, my God.

[Interviewer]

Are you ready? You prepared?

[Guest]

I'm not prepared, but let's. Let's.

[Interviewer]

I'll start.

[Guest]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

You just join in whenever you feel comfortable.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

You got the lyrics up, too?

[Guest]

I've got the lyrics up, too.

[Interviewer]

You know how this goes.

[Guest]

Yes, I. I know the. Yeah, I was just like. I know the song, but I was like, this isn't my moment to sing the wrong lyrics.

[Interviewer]

Here's the moment.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

You ready?

[Guest]

Go for it.

[Interviewer]

Okay. I just love the. Love the dramatic pause when the night has come and the land is dark and the moon is the only one light will see Doom, doom, doom, doom, doom No, I won't be afraid no, I won't be afraid Just as long

[Guest]

as you stand Stand by me Darling

[Interviewer]

darling, stand by me O stand by

[Guest]

me O stand, stand Stand by me Stand by me. You did it.

[Interviewer]

You did it.

[Guest]

I did it. That was so fun.

[Interviewer]

There you go.

[Guest]

Oh, my gosh. That was so fun. And the words as well. I was just like, yeah, don't be afraid.

[Interviewer]

It's in the lyrics.

[Guest]

It's in the lyrics. And you know what? If people went past, I would have been like. I probably would have got louder and been like, come on, join in. Oh, that was so fun. Who knew?

[Interviewer]

Who knew?

[Guest]

You see, sometimes you've just got to take on that opportunity and you don't know what joy you get from it. I was so joyous. There you go. That's my joy for the day is I sung Stand By Me in the park on the bench with a stranger.

[Interviewer]

That was a big joy for me. That's the first time I've done that. Oh, I love this stranger.

[Guest]

I love. Now I'm going to go home and learn. Learn it on the keyboard.

[Interviewer]

And you can because it's actually one of the.

[Guest]

I was going to say that's quite an easy one.

[Interviewer]

It's one of the doable ones.

[Guest]

Cuz. Yeah, I'm going to do that.

[Interviewer]

Brilliant. Well, thank you so much.

[Guest]

Thank you too. Thank you so much.

[Interviewer]

It's been lovely.

[Guest]

I feel like I have done something that I would never have done. I feel like I would have gone, oh no, no, no, no, sorry I don't have time and walked off and actually that was, yeah, such a pleasure. So thank you. I really appreciate that.

[Background Singer]

Call me back in tears Kitchen Not a sound what a sound the kind of music I've been missing. Come around

[Guest]

you come around

[Background Singer]

A silver light. From time to time oh my love. There may be cloud once above

[Guest]

but

[Background Singer]

the fall and rain calls my name and brings me to you the sky so great the sky so blue Sing me down into the water Rolling waves are being brave I know the earth was here before you but wasn't made I wasn't made how could I miss this? The rivers care oh my heart. It stops and it start the light in your room is a flower bloom under snow in the spring in every bird on every wind and I'll make the night. Glow twice as bright Light the sun and we'll moon we play the same tune and stand each other by bright hello A hushed goodbye.

[Interviewer]

Sa.