EPISODE 93: Branches Don't Grow Straight

Summary

Strangers on a Bench — Episode 93: "Branches Don't Grow Straight"

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Date: June 22, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this moving and intimately candid episode, Tom Rosenthal sits beside a retired painter on a park bench, exploring the joys and unpredictability of art, family, and aging. The conversation sways from creative expression in watercolor, the quirks of working life, and parenting across generations, to deeply personal moments of waiting and wonder. True to the episode’s title, the dialogue gently explores how the most meaningful parts of life never follow a straight path.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Joy and Challenge of Watercolor Painting

• Finding Art in Retirement
  • The guest describes a post-retirement discovery of painting, inspired by Bob Ross' inclusive message:
    • "We started to watch Bob Ross… his whole theme is that you can do it. You're an artist." (01:35, Retired Painter)
  • Watercolor’s unpredictability is a central metaphor:
    • "Sometimes you just put a bit of water on... you can just touch it and it explodes and it does what it likes… it can form like a petal." (02:52, Retired Painter)
• Letting Go and Happy Little Accidents
  • Both Tom and his guest share their affection for watercolors—the mistakes, the flow, and the permission to just enjoy:
    • "Bob Ross says we don't make mistakes. We have happy little accidents." (04:36, Retired Painter)
  • The host connects this to life’s unpredictability:
    • "Maybe that's what we're all like. You know, light touches can make big explosions." (03:32, Tom)

2. Retirement, Time, and Letting Life “Just Roll”

• The Strange Endings of Working Life
  • The guest recounts an anticlimactic, lonely retirement amid the pandemic:
    • "I couldn't really talk to anybody… it was just, lock the door when you go. So I was all by myself…" (09:36, Retired Painter)
  • Reflections on time and freedom:
    • "Now… sometimes I don't know what day of the week it is… you're now the master of your own time." (07:02, Retired Painter)
• No Regrets About Starting Late
  • Asked if he wishes he’d started painting earlier:
    • "No, not really, because I think that everything has its time... just let it flow as it's happening right now." (06:20, Retired Painter)

3. Parenting and Making Home

• A Childhood in Motion
  • The guest details a childhood of frequent moves that disrupted connection and education:
    • "I went to 15 schools and I have no education per se…" (17:47, Retired Painter)
  • Vowed to give his own son stability and attention:
    • "If we did have a child that we would be static so he could have an education and that we'd invest in it." (18:11, Retired Painter)
• Celebrating Simple Joys
  • Closeness with his son:
    • "He's a teacher now, so. Fantastic." (19:08, Retired Painter)
  • The mixture of love and waiting that defines parenting:
    • "I didn't realize that that was going to be a big part of our lives. Waiting, Sat adventures." (14:04, Retired Painter)

4. Partnership, Longevity, and Communication

• A Love Story from Adolescence
  • Met his wife at 15; has been with her ever since:
    • "We've been married 45 years coming up this year… her parents put me up for a little while, so I got sorted." (22:13, Retired Painter)
  • Remembers the exact song they met to ("Come Back My Love" by Darts) and the serendipity of their connection:
    • "So she came running after me and that was it." (26:52, Retired Painter)
• The Secret to a Good Marriage
  • Communication and shared perspective:
    • "It's talking... the first person you would tell would be [your partner]." (30:34, Retired Painter)
  • Mutual support and being “easy going”:
    • "As long as you've got somebody who you can go home and hug and cry on or laugh with, then what more do you want, you know?" (32:27, Retired Painter)
• Memorable Wedding Day Moment
  • "Turning around and seeing her coming towards me in the church, that's quite special, as you can hear. So it's still bringing back a lovely memory. Can't beat that." (29:48, Retired Painter)

5. Community, Compassion & Changing Times

• Reflections on Generational Shifts
  • Laments the weakening of communal spaces:
    • "I feel like so many of the central tenets of community are weakening or going." (37:58, Tom)
  • Navigates modern uncertainties around kindness and boundaries:
    • "But then sometime somebody tripped over so I went to help them and you got to be careful..." (38:54, Retired Painter)

6. Nature, Memory, and Contentment

• Deep Connection to Land and Animals
  • Shares fond memories of working on farms, the scent and comfort of sheep and cows:
    • "They're just so calm and I just like to look at them... they want care, they want to be looked after." (43:04, Retired Painter)
  • Smells as time machines:
    • "Smells take you back straight away in millisecond..." (42:27, Retired Painter)
• Favorite Memory Exercise (47:09)
  • Describes Bamburgh Castle and its beach in Northumberland in vivid, sensory detail:
    • "Tide is a long way back… you can see Farne Islands to the right, Lindisfarne to the left… it's just nice and warm and glorious and you're there building all sorts of sand animals..." (47:09, Retired Painter)

7. Mortality, Trees, and Legacy

• Wishes for the Future and After
  • Wants ashes spread near Dunstanburgh Castle or a tree dedicated to him; links trees and life:
    • "I like trees. You should get to know trees. Do nothing else, get to know. Look how it's growing... they're all different. Every single one is different." (49:32, Retired Painter)
  • Episode’s title theme:
    • "Branches don't grow straight. There's a reason for that." (49:57, Retired Painter)
• On Achievement
  • "Basically, we've devoted our lives, my wife and my son... I haven't achieved great things, but not too bad." (50:28, Retired Painter)
  • Tom’s affirmation:
    • "That's an achievement… Intending to do things that make people happier because of it and, and doing it well." (50:50, Tom)

8. End Note: What’s Next?

• Plans for the Rest of the Day
  • "I'm gonna go for a drink and then come back and paint a tree." (51:48, Retired Painter)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• "Sometimes you look back and you think, gosh, that's good."
  —Retired Painter on cherishing his art (02:43)

• "If you enjoy something… at least they enjoyed it though."
  —Retired Painter on the subjectivity of art (02:07)

• "I find that so relaxing. Beautiful."
  —Retired Painter describing being lost in painting (04:56)

• "Everything has its time… just let it flow as it's happening right now."
  —Retired Painter on regret and presence (06:20)

• "There was no demarcation point, per se."
  —Retired Painter on retiring during lockdown (07:57)

• "I vowed... that we would be static so he could have an education and that we'd invest in it."
  —Retired Painter on parenting (18:11)

• "We've been married 45 years coming up this year…"
  —Retired Painter on his lifelong partnership (22:13)

• "Branches don't grow straight. There's a reason for that."
  —Retired Painter, wisdom on life’s meanders (49:57)

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Timestamps of Key Segments

• 00:46 – Watercolor painting, inspiration from Bob Ross
• 02:28 – On not selling or giving away his art
• 04:36 – The “happy little accidents” philosophy
• 06:20 – Reflections on retirement timing and regret
• 09:09 – Last day at work and pandemic retirement
• 13:15 – Early days in telecom, scaling telegraph poles in York
• 17:47 – Parenting motivations and childhood disruptions
• 22:13 – Leaving home at 15, early relationship with future wife
• 26:23 – The night they met: song and dance
• 29:48 – Most vivid wedding memory
• 32:27 – Philosophy on marriage and compatibility
• 37:58 – Changing communal life and boundaries of kindness
• 42:32 – The evocative power of animal smells
• 47:09 – Most detailed memory: Bamburgh Castle beach
• 49:57 – Trees and the episode’s title metaphor
• 51:48 – What’s next: a drink and painting a tree

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Thematic Closing

In this episode, the ordinary is revealed as extraordinary: waiting, painting, parenting, and loving each become sites of meaning and memory. The retired painter's stories—rich, occasionally bittersweet, and rooted in the everyday—echo the episode’s central truth: that like tree branches, our lives twist, curve, and turn, and that’s precisely what makes them beautiful.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

Hello, sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah. I was looking for a tree to paint.

[Interviewer]

What do you say? A tree to paint?

[Retired Painter]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Because you're a painter.

[Retired Painter]

I retired and I found an art. You found art and I'm not fantastic?

[Interviewer]

Maybe you are fantastic though. Who's to know?

[Retired Painter]

Well, somewhere on the wall.

[Interviewer]

What's the nicest thing someone said about

[Retired Painter]

paintings was my daughter in law says they're very nice. The worrying thing is when I painted flowers, my wife has said that's a. Which is totally not the flower. It was.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see.

[Retired Painter]

And I'm a bit fluid, so it's not botanical.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, just let it roll.

[Retired Painter]

Because watercolor is quite hard. It is hard.

[Interviewer]

The water goes everywhere and getting the. Hard to control it, then you have to let go, I suppose.

[Retired Painter]

I think that's the thing. We started to watch Bob Ross. Oh, yes. And he's fantastic.

[Interviewer]

Tell me who Bob Ross is.

[Retired Painter]

He's passed away now. He's an American oil paint artist. He's on television. The joy of painting and it's so relaxing. He's got such a gorgeous voice and his whole theme is that you can do it. You're an artist.

[Interviewer]

So you are an artist.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah, he did. And to a degree he's right, you know, as long as you're happy.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Retired Painter]

And if you enjoy something, things that you go and look at and you think that's rubbish. So at least they enjoyed it though. Some shows we go to, my wife said, well, yours are better than hers.

[Interviewer]

There you go.

[Retired Painter]

She was charging upwards of 80 to 200 pounds. So I thought that can't be bad, can it?

[Interviewer]

Maybe. Would you charge for a painting of yours?

[Retired Painter]

No, no, I don't think I could sell it because I. I've given a few away and I don't like doing it.

[Interviewer]

Oh, giving them away?

[Retired Painter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see, you like holding on to them. Yes, that's the problem. Not that you couldn't sell treasures. Not that you couldn't sell them because people wouldn't buy them because you just don't want to give them away.

[Retired Painter]

Because sometimes you look back and you think, gosh, that's good.

[Interviewer]

When you started your painting journey, do you remember what kicked you off? And do you remember the first one?

[Retired Painter]

It was Bob Ross. It was Bob Ross and I invested in a Load of oil paints. But first of all, my wife doesn't like the smell. And secondly, they are quite messy and he's got a massive studio and when he's cleaning his brushes, he flaps them around and. And she says, you're not doing that in the kitchen. So I gave that up and thought, I'll try watercolour. And I fell in love with it. Sometimes you just put a bit of water on. Some colours are better than others, but you can just touch it and it explodes and it does what it likes and it can form like a petal. You get the light and the dark and you haven't done anything. Wow. I love that.

[Interviewer]

I really like that as the. A small touch but a big explosion. Maybe that's what we're all like. You know, light touches can make big explosions.

[Retired Painter]

So yours is obviously talking on a bench. Talking.

[Interviewer]

But you know what? You know what? Funny enough, I also am a keen watercolor person myself.

[Retired Painter]

Oh, right.

[Interviewer]

But here's the thing. I'm really, really bad. I've got no talent whatsoever and I never have, but I've always. It's one of my kind of things I do to. To relax.

[Retired Painter]

Yes, it is.

[Interviewer]

And so I totally understand everything you're saying about. About watercolors. And I like giving them away because mine are not good enough to keep. For myself to look at. And I always do small ones just so it doesn't. Doesn't impose too much. I don't feel I've got. Keep something massive.

[Retired Painter]

I started off not massive, but I'm getting smaller. Oh, yeah. And I quite enjoy that.

[Interviewer]

How small can you get?

[Retired Painter]

Can you go, Well, I don't know. I've seen people doing sort of postage stamp size and I think n. That's a bit too.

[Interviewer]

The problem with that watercolor is one false move and then you. It's over. Yeah, but then you can start again.

[Retired Painter]

Was it. Bob Ross says we don't make mistakes. We have happy little accidents.

[Interviewer]

What are the feelings you get? Can you try and describe the feeling? Mid brush stroke.

[Retired Painter]

You're concentrating totally on what you're doing. 100%. I think that just takes me away. Or you're aiming to do a line and it goes wrong, but you think, oh, that'll do. I'll just put that in. I'll make the tree in a windswept area. So I'll do all the branches falling out and it's just that. Go with the flow. Just. I find that so relaxing. Beautiful.

[Interviewer]

What was occupying this space before this all happened? So what work I mean, yes.

[Retired Painter]

I mean, I. I was paid to go away. I got redundancy, you see.

[Interviewer]

You got paid to go away? I've not heard of that job. Was that by your wife?

[Retired Painter]

I always think it's polite, you know, if somebody pays you to go away, go away, don't refuse it, just. But the job was going in within a couple of years and it did do. I just got paid to go away quicker. So I thought, yeah, why not? And then pandemic hit, so we thought, well, we can manage. We're not going on cruises. And then I can be where I want to be. I can talk to you and not think, oh, gosh, you know, I've got to be somewhere.

[Interviewer]

That's the magic, isn't it? Do you look back and maybe this is a bit of an unfair question because you can't do anything about it now, but now that you have this freedom, Are you sad that you didn't start doing watercolors 20 years ago or 30 years ago, 40 years ago, whatever?

[Retired Painter]

No, not really, because I think that everything has its time. And we had my son and we were raising him and we put a lot of effort into that and that's glorious. Whatever will be, will be. What's going to happen today will happen today. So just let it flow as it's happening right now. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That's so lovely. We're going to get onto your side. The thing is the way this works, there's a kind of start question and an end question that everybody gets, and then everything in the middle just happens as it happens. But I should ask you this first question. You've planted lots of seeds. Anyway, we'll get to. But the first question is, do you have a favourite day of the week.

[Retired Painter]

Now?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Retired Painter]

No, because you're pure freedom. Sometimes I don't know what day of the week it is. We have a calendar in the kitchen and sometimes I thought it was Sunday and it wasn't. And you're planning to think, oh, we're doing that tomorrow, but hold on, it's only Thursday. So, no, I don't now. And I never understood why, when you retired, you used to get a watch on a clock. I didn't understand the symbolism of it. Not now.

[Interviewer]

That was a thing. It was a thing, as in, like a big clock.

[Retired Painter]

It used to be, and then it went down to the watches, but it was purely because you're now the master of your own time.

[Interviewer]

Or you can see it in a kind of sinister light and the time's kind of running well. Yeah. You've only got a limited amount of this and you got to look at it the whole time, watch the clock

[Retired Painter]

tick by, but yes, no.

[Interviewer]

So I'm just going to ask, you know, when you left, did you get anything? Were you giving.

[Retired Painter]

No, because I couldn't even speak to my boss or anything because the pandemic came on and as soon as the restrictions hit was when I was going. So generally you would have had a handover and had a bit of a ceremony. Couldn't do any of that at all. So it felt a little bit. I didn't have a sort of demarcation point, per se.

[Interviewer]

How long were you working at the place you were working for?

[Retired Painter]

36 years.

[Interviewer]

Okay, well, that's deserving. That's like my whole lifetime, basically. What would you. Let's. Let's imagine the ceremony is now and you can say a few words. What would you have liked to have said to your fellow colleagues?

[Retired Painter]

I would just say, I'm glad I'm going. When I first started, it was fantastic, but year after year it's got progressively not a nice environment. And I'm glad I'm going. I wish you all well. And

[Interviewer]

you say, you said, it's getting worse and worse, but good luck.

[Retired Painter]

I hope you can survive.

[Interviewer]

Do you remember that moment of the last day of you doing this job?

[Retired Painter]

And. Yeah, I couldn't believe it. And I got a phone call from the big boss and I thought, oh, drat, sorry, we can't let you go. And he did phone up and just say, thank you very much, which was nice. But my heart was going. I thought, oh, my goodness me. It's just a joke, you know. April, Phil got you.

[Interviewer]

Were there any kind of emotional moments

[Retired Painter]

on the last day?

[Interviewer]

Any swellings of the heart?

[Retired Painter]

No, because I. I couldn't really talk to anybody. Yeah. And it was just, lock the door when you go. So I was all by myself and it was a really weird. All right. It was a completely. You got the building, you thought, no more.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Retired Painter]

And it was.

[Interviewer]

It's sad that would have been alone. I mean, it's such a funny end. I suppose you walked in there alone the first day.

[Retired Painter]

It was sort of.

[Interviewer]

You walk out alone.

[Retired Painter]

Not quite as strange. When my son was born, it was half past nine on an evening and I didn't know what was going to happen. She'd been in hospital for a few weeks, but when he was born and everything, and the midwife says, right, off you go. I think, what do I do now? It was that bereft Feeling.

[Interviewer]

So you were sent out of the hospital?

[Retired Painter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Why though?

[Retired Painter]

Well, because she was being taken up to the ward. It was gone half 10, 11 o' clock and by then you know they're going to settle her in and I was surplus to requirements.

[Interviewer]

So this is a similar feeling to

[Retired Painter]

leaving the job requirements. Then I no longer have a job, which is strange in one way but nice in the other. It takes a little bit of getting used to. I volunteer coffee shop at church, so I've got a few days where there's a structure.

[Observer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can I ask what your job was?

[Retired Painter]

It was British Telecom, but it was in the. On the inside and that was being taken over by technology. Okay, so it's completely gone now. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Were you often going from place to place somewhere?

[Retired Painter]

I was going from exchange to exchange but then I had a condition which meant I couldn't drive so I said I'd go on my bike to local exchanges. But that was getting more tiring.

[Interviewer]

The last of that age, I suppose, really.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah, yeah, I think so, yeah. You generally used to work in a group and you had a camaraderie and that sort of went to a degree,

[Interviewer]

you know, so shared work is the joy of it, isn't it? Were there any that we consider like emergencies, anyone that like, we've got to go now because this is XXneck.

[Retired Painter]

Not in that respect, no. But sometimes you went on a night and in the exchanges there's always some little noises coming on, some little clatters and then it's quiet. But in the middle of the night it's a different entity and you're doing something, all of a sudden this clatter comes up and it makes your heart go because. What was that?

[Interviewer]

Can you tell me what an. I've been sitting here. What is an exchange?

[Retired Painter]

A telephone exchange is. It was where your telephone line was originating from.

[Interviewer]

I see.

[Retired Painter]

You would have your connection point here and you live over there. So you run a wire to take it to your position, then if you moved, somebody would have to go and move away over there. It was all.

[Interviewer]

So you've moved a lot of wires in your time?

[Retired Painter]

Moved a lot of wires. It's all done now electronically, you facilitated

[Interviewer]

a lot of phone calls?

[Retired Painter]

Yes. Yeah, I mean, but it's a funny thought. One of the strangest and frightenest things is that when I first started we had to take down some of the old telegraph poles and they were huge because the wires in those days went over the tops of the buildings. So in York, when you're wandering around, you See some of the tall three story buildings or four story buildings and the poles. You couldn't put your arms around the bottom of them and they were huge at the top. And really it is a long way up there.

[Interviewer]

Don't look down kind of scenario, that sort of scenario.

[Retired Painter]

Concentrate on what you were doing.

[Interviewer]

Talk to me about your son. So we were in. We were in the ward when we last left.

[Retired Painter]

When we last. I was the first one to see him. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So you were sent away somewhere and what, where did you go when you were sent away?

[Retired Painter]

Whilst I just went home and sat

[Interviewer]

down and do you remember what you did at home?

[Retired Painter]

Nothing. When you've had such a high. Yeah, it was just waiting. He would just sat there. It's like that Forrest Gump moment, you know, where he sat on the. Sat on the bench. And to be fair, I've done a lot of that. I didn't realize that that was going to be a big part of our lives. Waiting, Sat adventures.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay. Why has there been so much waiting?

[Retired Painter]

He's doing this. I'll wait here.

[Interviewer]

Oh, I see, I see, I see.

[Retired Painter]

Of course we're taking the.

[Observer]

No, you're right.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah, of course I'll sit down and wait for it.

[Interviewer]

I have two daughters.

[Retired Painter]

There you go.

[Interviewer]

And yeah, of course you do do a lot of waiting.

[Retired Painter]

You don't think about it. And even now when we went to do his apartment. Oh, can you just wait a minute? I thought, well, why not?

[Interviewer]

Born to do it. I'm ready.

[Retired Painter]

There's one thing I'm good at, waiting.

[Interviewer]

How does one wait? Well, do you think, you know, what are the great poor principles of waiting?

[Retired Painter]

Well, finding something and occupying. And I like looking at things. Unfortunately, they thought we were going to be grandparents, but that didn't turn out. It was an ectopic pregnancy. So we ended up in the hospital and I was waiting once again in hospital. He was upstairs with. With his wife, my daughter in law. And I was at Leeds and I went, just went out for a walk and it was a cemetery and I adored looking at all the jobs I've gone. Saddle makers, tool makers, etc. And this massive monument to this tax collector. I thought, really people liked him. Or did they like him? Was it just something they had to do? And strangely enough, I found this little gravestone and I thought, what's that? And it was a palette and it just said his name, which I can't quite recall. And then from friends, 1768. I thought, well, that must have cost a lot of money. And I'VE tried and tried and I can't find anything. So I don't think he's a prolific artist. He wasn't a prominent artist, but he had friends who liked him enough. That would be a significant investment. A gravestone and a plot.

[Interviewer]

That's so. That's so lovely.

[Retired Painter]

So I think. Gosh. Yeah. So, yeah, there was some goodness out of.

[Observer]

Yeah.

[Retired Painter]

Waiting in the hospital.

[Interviewer]

It's wonderful to think that that gesture made, you know, 350 odd years ago had an effect. Had an effect. And still you look at it now and you go, oh, look at how wonderful this. This person's friends.

[Retired Painter]

They were true friends. I think the other ones were just. Well, yeah, I'm a councillor. I'd better put something on there. I'll give my £20. And there you go.

[Interviewer]

It's a funny thought. I'm guessing the tax collector that you mentioned before, you know, they just paid more to have a bigger. Bigger turret.

[Retired Painter]

Well, yeah, it was a monolith, which

[Interviewer]

is quite funny, really.

[Retired Painter]

It is.

[Interviewer]

It's like the equivalent. And I hope you don't have one. If you do, I apologise. They're having a kind of 4x4 car,

[Retired Painter]

you know, a massive car.

[Interviewer]

You know, it's like, well, great, you've got a massive car, but it's exactly the same as another car.

[Retired Painter]

Exactly.

[Interviewer]

That goes from here to there. It's the same as a grave st. You know, you're still dead, but someone's paid more. Paid more to have a slightly taller one.

[Retired Painter]

I know, it's.

[Interviewer]

It's absolutely madness, isn't it? So being a father for you has been a lot of waiting.

[Retired Painter]

It's been the best time ever.

[Interviewer]

But it's been great, you know, it's very lovely to hear you. I mean, it's very lovely to hear someone. I want to talk to you a bit more about that. I think I asked you about, you know, if you regretted not painting earlier while I was working, obviously, and also very dedicated to being a father. Is there a reason why you were more dedicated? I mean, you made a point of being dedicated. I mean, was there any particular. Anything behind that?

[Retired Painter]

I went to 15 schools and I have no education per se, I don't have written qualifications and we moved from south to north and the curriculum was completely different and it's just. You might as well have asked me anything.

[Interviewer]

I wouldn't have learned a different language, more or less.

[Retired Painter]

I vowed if we did have a child that we would be static so he could have an education and that we'd invest in it. And so every weekend we went somewhere. My wife had to work, so she took him on the weekdays, I took him on the weekends. We always did something and we had a fantastic time. You know, he got interested in things. He was quite shy and I've always been interested in history and we went to English Heritage sites and there was groups there doing reenactments and we joined one. Such a good, good father and son time. I think everybody should really do lots of things and read Teocha. We read all the time. And there's such some of the joyous moments. He's just sat in bed reading. It's the best thing that that's happened.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Retired Painter]

So I've got. Absolutely. He's a teacher now, so. Fantastic.

[Interviewer]

So you were moved around a lot as a kid?

[Retired Painter]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

I guessing against your will, you didn't

[Retired Painter]

want to walk around sometimes. I just got a two weeks notice.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Retired Painter]

Oh, we're moving. I used to hate that. Oh, you'll soon make friends. And you do to a degree. But did you want to? And I sort of had friends, you know, I remember the last time I only had two weeks notice and I couldn't bring it myself to say to anybody because I thought, no, I can, I just, I can't do this anymore. You know, they just kept moving because they changed jobs all the time. It's just nomadic, you know.

[Interviewer]

Did you ever kind of talk to your parents about this?

[Retired Painter]

No, we had a sort of disconnect. Really. Yeah, I mean, and we still do. I haven't spoke to them for six months.

[Interviewer]

Your parents are still alive?

[Retired Painter]

Yeah.

[Observer]

Wow.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that's a good game.

[Retired Painter]

It is, to be fair.

[Interviewer]

May I ask how old they are?

[Retired Painter]

My mum is 90 next year, but they've never been that bothered. And if we go, we go. If we don't, we don't. So at the moment we've had a lot on, so we don't. And I know it sounds a bit harsh, but, you know, it's okay. This is what it is. You know, not every family is.

[Interviewer]

No, that's it.

[Retired Painter]

Every, you know, close.

[Interviewer]

So you made at some point a conscious decision along this journey of being moved around everywhere. You thought, I'm not going to do this to my child.

[Retired Painter]

No.

[Interviewer]

Is there anything else in particular you've done, especially that you didn't have time?

[Retired Painter]

I think when you're going on about the cars and the big. That's money basically. And not everybody has a lot of money, but you don't need a lot of money. I'm sure your daughters would rather have you than, I don't know, all they are now, but maybe they would prefer a nice holiday. Not sure.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that's had a drum. If I said, if they, if I said, if I said you could spend a day with me or I could give you, you know, £20 to go. Go to the shop. I think they probably pick the 20

[Retired Painter]

pounds, but in the sh. Knowledge you can see you afterwards.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, that's true, that's true. We do spend a lot of time together. So going back to your being moved around a lot, I'm guessing at a certain age you were free of, of your parents?

[Retired Painter]

15. 15. They moved and sort of once again said, do you want to come or. You don't have to.

[Interviewer]

You finally said what? Yeah. So that was the time you were finally allowed to say no.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah, I, I just say I'll stay where I am.

[Interviewer]

So. So where was that?

[Retired Painter]

It was here.

[Interviewer]

Okay. And so. And they left you to do what? Were you with anyone?

[Retired Painter]

I mean, well, at 15, my girlfriend, who is now my wife.

[Interviewer]

That's at the time.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah. So We've been married 45 years coming up this year, so her parents put me up for a little while, so I got sorted. But once again it was. We've got the job. You're the last person to know. We've told the gas, the electrics. We'll tell you now.

[Interviewer]

And what was that moment like for you that then them, you know, I

[Retired Painter]

think it was sort of finals. Yeah. Yeah. Off you go, do it. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then. So new life started for you at 15?

[Retired Painter]

Yes. I managed to find somebody who saw something in me and put up with me for 45.

[Interviewer]

Okay, let's talk about her. I'm just gonna put some sank in my neck. So for Lexus.

[Retired Painter]

Oh, yeah. I mean, I suppose she should be up for beatification, but that might be a beer if anyone deserves it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Observer]

Wow.

[Interviewer]

So 50, you know, I was, you know what's funny about this is that literally my oldest daughter goes to school.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And she's 12. She was telling me the other day about a couple of 12 year olds in her. In her year, you know, a girlfriend and boyfriend, age 12. They had split up today and that was quite a dramatic thing for, for her class or, you know, year or whatever. And I was saying, look, mate, it's no big deal. I mean, of all the different partnerships I've known, which is so many now, I can only think of one where they got together as teenagers who are now still together.

[Retired Painter]

Well, I'm pleased I've altered that for you. And now you can see.

[Interviewer]

And now I've got two. And so it's funny that, 100%. It's funny that I say this only a couple of days ago that the world would provide me with someone who's met their wife at age 15.

[Retired Painter]

We met around about 15 because I'd started to go out then.

[Interviewer]

And when you say out, you mean to what, to pubs, to places?

[Retired Painter]

Well, yeah, it was different environment.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Retired Painter]

When we went to the first night club, you had to have a three piece suit. Oh, wow. Otherwise you wouldn't be allowed in.

[Interviewer]

Did you have one at 15?

[Retired Painter]

No, but I went and bought one. Yeah, but you know, that was.

[Interviewer]

You weren't anything as you had the suit.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah, it. Wow.

[Interviewer]

There's a lot of smart people in that club.

[Retired Painter]

Well, you're decently dressed. Yeah, that's quite nice. Really. Maybe they should bring that back.

[Interviewer]

Maybe that's not a bad idea.

[Retired Painter]

Put a bit of effort in, you know, you expect the lady to put a bit of effort.

[Interviewer]

That's a really good point.

[Retired Painter]

Do the same thing.

[Interviewer]

I don't mind that. No, as long as. As long as the suits were fairly accessible.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah. You didn't have to, but ideally. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Retired Painter]

I thought it was quite cute.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I agree. So, Hans, so you got. You got the suit and you got

[Retired Painter]

the suit out and about then, I think.

[Interviewer]

Were you wearing it every day, the suit?

[Retired Painter]

No, just on. Just kept for the. Yeah, yeah. I used to work on a farm. I used to work with animals. So there was an aroma which you didn't want to pass on to your bed. You see what, I'm going back to the times when we had a bath once a week. Yeah. That was norm. There wasn't showers. It's just weird that in my lifetime

[Interviewer]

and only once a week would you really milk that bath when you had it?

[Retired Painter]

Well, sometimes if your relations were over, it was who goes in first, you know, and sometimes you're the third one, you know, you didn't get much time to play with the action man with his diving suit in the bath because it got cold. You know, it's a weird world now. You expect everyone to have a shower.

[Interviewer]

That was a very different time. So you're 15, you're working on a farm at the time.

[Retired Painter]

Yep.

[Interviewer]

You're wandering about the place that's out and about and you meet your wife, Hal.

[Retired Painter]

Well, we went to Cats Whiskers, which is a nightclub which is now Mecca and the bingo place. Nothing. And went there a couple of times. And cats, whiskers, cat's whiskers. Big dance floor, small dance floors. Nice.

[Interviewer]

And you met. Can you remember the exact moment you met?

[Retired Painter]

Yes. Come back, my love don't go away by darts. Dancing.

[Interviewer]

So is that the name of the song?

[Retired Painter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay, got it.

[Retired Painter]

And I remember it well. And dance to that. We met up. We arranged to meet the following Saturday. And I keep teasing her about this, but I went and she dancing with somebody else, so I just walked away and she came running after me and that was it.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's very sweet, isn't it? So she saw you?

[Retired Painter]

Well, she was with some friends, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Retired Painter]

Somebody said defensive, so she kind of

[Interviewer]

went, okay, that's good. So you started walking away when you saw this?

[Retired Painter]

Well, yeah, I just thought, well, that's.

[Interviewer]

But so lucky that she saw you walking away.

[Retired Painter]

Well, yeah. So that's fair.

[Interviewer]

Is it, you know, say if someone, you know, some random person walked across, you know, with a large trolley.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And blocked the sight of your wife to you walking away.

[Retired Painter]

That's life.

[Interviewer]

Different life.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's mad, isn't it?

[Retired Painter]

Yeah. Just that tiny little split second. That's cool. Well, yes. And from there on, it's been lovely.

[Interviewer]

That was a good choice of words there. Well, yeah, it would be lovely. It's probably been in lots of other things as well, in the. You know how everybody.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

When did you get engaged?

[Retired Painter]

We got engaged the same time as Prince Charles.

[Interviewer]

Is that. Was it inspired by Prince Charles? Did you read the news? You think. Hang on, he's got an idea there.

[Retired Painter]

No, I don't know which one it was, really. Maybe he was inspired. Plus, we got married just. Just round about the same time. Only you couldn't buy peppermints in a little tin without a picture on it. I don't know why not, really. You should have been allowed to have this souvenir.

[Interviewer]

You should have had your own plates.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah. Or cups, you know.

[Interviewer]

So how old were you when you got married?

[Retired Painter]

I was. Oh, that's a tricky one. It was a day after my 21st birthday.

[Observer]

Wow.

[Interviewer]

Big birthday moment. Yeah.

[Retired Painter]

Thinking about the speech I was gonna have to give. Yes, of course.

[Interviewer]

Would you remember much of your speech?

[Retired Painter]

Well, in essence, in those days, the groom just thanked everybody and that was that. That was that, really. It wasn't. I mean, when my son got married, he gave his speech and it was a lovely oration, which you would expect from him, really.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Did you speak at your son's wedding?

[Retired Painter]

I did.

[Interviewer]

How Was that for you?

[Retired Painter]

It was fine. He gave me free rein. Although the lady officiating said, I've heard that poem a lot of times, but never quite like that. What did he do that as a compliment?

[Interviewer]

Did he do an interpretive dance or something? Why, did she say that?

[Retired Painter]

No, but I. I put excerpts into the poem relating to our relationship and I even put a few excerpts.

[Interviewer]

So you jazzed it up.

[Retired Painter]

So I jazzed it up a little bit.

[Interviewer]

You're allowed to do what you want, you know.

[Retired Painter]

You know, it's one time with your own child. That's quite funny.

[Interviewer]

So is there anything particular from your wedding day that you remember? Even though it's a small memory, like something that. Like a little passing moment, it wasn't a kind of. Not one of the big moments. Anything that stands out from your wedding day, in truth. Yeah.

[Retired Painter]

Turning around and seeing it coming towards me in the church, That's quite special, as you can hear. So it's still bringing back a lovely memory. Can't beat that.

[Interviewer]

That sounds. It sounds idyllic. How does one have such a. I mean, how does one have such a successful relationship, do you think?

[Retired Painter]

What's.

[Interviewer]

What's been the key? How's it work?

[Retired Painter]

I think you can lose it a little bit. It's talking. So I hope you go back and say to your good lady, I met this really interesting guy. First person you would tell would be. So if anything happens, the first person you would tell would be.

[Interviewer]

That's a lovely partner.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah, just keep that going because hopefully we're all moving forward to something. So if you're taking somebody with you, you've got to take them with you.

[Interviewer]

That's such a nice way of thinking about it as well. First person you would tell. I really like that. And it's very simple but yet profound. And where do you.

[Retired Painter]

Also.

[Interviewer]

Is it important? We don't. I mean, unless of course, it is complete, utter joy, wall to wall. It's important to take the opposite sometimes. Where do you clash heads? What are the difficulties?

[Retired Painter]

There hasn't been a great deal. To be fair, I think we're quite compatible. I'm really easy going. I thought of my granddad, my father's dad, he was quite a character. But my nan was in charge. They were from mining community colliery from County Durham. You know, you didn't mess with him. But my nan rode the roost. So if he came home, there's the money. He got his pocket money. That's it. We sort of lived our thing like that, monetary wise. I leave My wife to be in charge of that. And that's just a monetary thing, but, you know, she lets me do what I want to do and she does the garden. We back each other up on our hobbies and. And what we like in life, but we weren't that bothered. We didn't want a new car or fancy things, really. We were just happy as we were and it was just great. Yeah. I think we're just both sort of easygoing and as long as you've got somebody who you can go home and hug and cry on or laugh with, then what more do you want, you know?

[Interviewer]

Can you think of a point in your life where you've been especially grateful for having your wife nearby?

[Retired Painter]

Where my son was poorly, yes. Plus, it takes two to. To deal with things like that, I think.

[Interviewer]

Can I ask how long he was poorly for and how that went?

[Retired Painter]

It was an appendix and they'd missed it and we'd actually been into hospital and they sent him out and they still missed the bloody thing. But he had to have a major operation because it perforated and it was close. But that's over now. He was there. Great.

[Interviewer]

How old was he when that was happening?

[Retired Painter]

He was about 15. Yeah. Now I mean, he's 6 foot 5 and massive. I'm looking up to him like that. He's just weird. I don't know if you'll be the same with your daughters.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. One of my daughters is quite tall already, so it's kind of. It's quite funny. But I don't know why I thought this the other day, but I was with my oldest daughter. I was thinking, God, you really are just a normal sized human being now. And there were so many years where I was just carrying you around. It seems like a kind of alien prospect now. Like, what was that time when that was possible? Kind of. When was that? How did it happen?

[Retired Painter]

You know, there's nowhere. Anywhere. But yes.

[Interviewer]

I was just thinking of some kind of. Some kind of apparatus that would allow you or me to carry our children just for a brief while, just to kind of have the fond memories of carrying the child. I don't know what this would look like, but, you know, some kind of. Some kind of contraption. It would look like you're kind of carrying. Bearing some of the weight, but not all of it, obviously, because you can't do it.

[Retired Painter]

Should be the other way around. Yeah, I'm probably getting close to that to be fair, but yes, but enjoy your time. That's the best time.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah. Was life at all different after that, that moment with him in the appendix. Were you even more appreciative of the time you had? You know.

[Retired Painter]

Well, you got the initial. Is that it? Is there going to be anything else? But once you got through all that and it. I think you just got to, you know, close that book and carry on a bit, move on and hopefully you don't have to go back to it and just open the pages again. Yes, it was bad for us at a time, but a lot of people have put up with a lot worse, so we could go with it. And we were together and there was three of us. We're a little. Well, there's four now with his wife, so we're a nice little entity.

[Interviewer]

What was it like meeting her for the first time?

[Retired Painter]

Frightening.

[Interviewer]

Frightening. Because you wanted to make a good impression or you kind of.

[Retired Painter]

No, because you're probably aware. But if you get a phone call at 7 o' clock or so in the morning, you start thinking, that's not a good phone call. And when they say, sit down, dad, I've got some news, thinking, oh, gosh, no. What now? What's gonna happen? I'm getting engaged.

[Interviewer]

Was that seven in the morning? Yeah, that felt.

[Retired Painter]

That's that great. Lovely. Yeah, go for it.

[Interviewer]

That's a good one. That was a rare good seven in the morning.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah. No, she's lovely girl.

[Interviewer]

Did you feel any pressure meeting her for the first time to be kind of, you know.

[Retired Painter]

Well, yes, because she's from Canada, so she's not got any parents here as well. The father isn't in a picture, so conscious. We're in laws, but we don't want to be, you know, how far do you go? And there was initially this thing, do I hug? Do I not hug? So if I don't hug, she's thinking, o, what's wrong with me? Sometimes I can't win this argument.

[Observer]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So what did you choose in the end, in terms of hug or not hug?

[Retired Painter]

I'm a bit of a hugger, to be fair, but just sort of little bits, you know, that's what strangeness in life now. We come from a family up north and people used to come into the house and as they came into your house and flick the kettle on and come and sit down and have a chat and you'd have a little hug and there was no connotations to that, but nowadays there's connotations to it. So as a man as well, you've got to be aware. You can't just. Not that I Go to hug strange women. But you know, it's. Even if you say hello and a little thing like that and you goodbye, it doesn't mean anything. But it does nowadays.

[Observer]

Yeah.

[Retired Painter]

I think that's a shame as well.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. It's complicated, isn't it? It's really complicated. It's always tricky comparing ages, isn't it? Really it is.

[Retired Painter]

There's always so many other things, but

[Interviewer]

there's so many factors at play. Yes. Birdsworth. Even in my lifetime, I feel like so many of the central tenets of community are weakening or going.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And that's not about the people involved. No one's woken up and go, I wish I want to have less community. It's, you know, it's government, it's funding, it's changing lifestyles and how we live, you know, for instance, you know, just in terms of pubs closing at alarming rate is a great example of. Of that, you know.

[Retired Painter]

I think so. But I do think that people are less caring of other people. I don't know you, so I don't have to care about. You don't know that guy that he's, you know, if he trips up, he can start himself.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, but is that not the byproduct of not having enough as many of these spaces as we once did?

[Retired Painter]

There is that. But then sometime somebody tripped over so I went to help them and you got to be careful cuz you, you know, you might do some damage and just falls over. Yeah. Fear of. If I help this lady, will she accuse me of that? Shouldn't be our first. No, of course, you know.

[Interviewer]

No, of course.

[Retired Painter]

Although saying that I went on chainsaw course and they said in the event that you chop your leg off. But really that's not the first age of.

[Interviewer]

Did you really go to chainsaw course?

[Retired Painter]

Yeah, you got to.

[Interviewer]

What do you mean? You've got to.

[Retired Painter]

For your job, for you to have a proper chainsaw, you've got to.

[Interviewer]

Oh, sorry, I got it.

[Retired Painter]

Sorry, it was through work. But yeah, you're supposed to be able to chainsaw course. Know how to deal with it. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Are there any more courses to come for you? Anything you're keen to. To learn? Apart from, of course, you, you know, you've got your watercolors.

[Retired Painter]

No, I'm quite happy, I think.

[Interviewer]

You do seem quite happy. Yeah, you do seem very content.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah. If you came and said, here's 10,000 pound, I'll say, oh, I'm fine, but see if we can do something else, you know.

[Interviewer]

So what would you do if you know, let's imagine some bandits drive past us with bags of cash and they drop one out the the back and in the back is £10,000 in front of us right now, we look, we both look at it and I say, it's yours. You deserve it today for talking to me on a bench. What are you going to do with that £10,000 then?

[Retired Painter]

Well, I'd like to say I've got a son, you've got daughters. I wouldn't use it myself, but it could do a lot for my son. And I know that's the wrong thing to say it.

[Interviewer]

Is there anything you would do with it personally or would you just give it all to Sun?

[Retired Painter]

I. Yeah. Not bothered. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Take all of them.

[Retired Painter]

You'd waste it to think of all the water. I know, but I've got plenty enough body. I'd give it you check it. The police would come. All right.

[Interviewer]

Seems to be just me take it and we both get in trouble. So you're content?

[Retired Painter]

I'm more than happy, yeah. And I hope you are too.

[Interviewer]

I'm feeling good. I don't normally start talking to people as early as we have.

[Retired Painter]

I'm sort of a morning person, so I get to the afternoon. I'm, you know, no good. Well, I think it's when I used to work on a farm. It's a morning thing. You get your job.

[Interviewer]

Do you have a favorite farmyard animal?

[Retired Painter]

Cows. I love cows. I like sheep. I went to try some new aftershave. Trying to get a new image going.

[Interviewer]

Sorry, is this. When was this? Recently.

[Retired Painter]

Since I've been retired.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay.

[Retired Painter]

So. And I went to this place and she said, what's your favorite scent? What do you like smelling? And I said, sheep. And she looked at me. Right. This is weird. I just love the smell.

[Interviewer]

Did you open up a special drawer,

[Retired Painter]

actually have anything for me? Strangely enough, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Now, maybe they're missing a trick there.

[Retired Painter]

I love the smell of the wool. The lanolin.

[Interviewer]

See, that sounds like a niche enterprise. You could start your own perfumery with farmyard animal perfumery. And just, you know, fellow people that want to smell sheep.

[Retired Painter]

But if you. I don't know if you've ever seen shearing sheep.

[Interviewer]

Shearing.

[Retired Painter]

I have. And the jeans and that. They get that from the lanolin. And I just love that smell.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. My father was a sheep farmer.

[Retired Painter]

There we go.

[Interviewer]

So you'll know I know that smell very well.

[Retired Painter]

And I think smells take you back straight away in millisecond too.

[Interviewer]

They do, don't they?

[Retired Painter]

To something I like the smell of cow dung. And it just takes me back to when we used to do the milking and obscurely being peed on by the cows cuz they were higher up in the parlor. And you, it was cold and you check it for my status and rubbing them and it's activated and tails went up. Oh thank you. At least it's warm bloody cold out there. So yeah,

[Interviewer]

what else do you like about them?

[Retired Painter]

They're just so calm and I just like to look at them. And you can look at them, you're not so good, your eyes, your nose, you can see something rather limping a little bit. And they want care, they want to be looked after. And they weren't just sheep, there weren't money in the bank, there were more. That's a way of life, it's not a job.

[Interviewer]

How long can you look at a cow for? If you see a cow in a field, do you stop and say I

[Retired Painter]

can just sit there and let them do their thing and I'm doing my thing.

[Interviewer]

How do you feel about walking Sometimes as I've got older and you walk through a field of cows, you get the odd news story of a kind of, you know, they've trampled certain people to death and stuff and they're obviously a wonderful sight to behold. But then you also realize just how enormous they are and how much force they can have.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah, the, the one thing about them got to respect is that they're inquisitive. And that's all it is really. If it's a one cow in a field, I'm thinking that's a bull. So I might not go in there. If there's a few there, they generally might want to come up and they'll have a bit of a nudge. But as long as it hasn't got horns, you know, let it nudge a little bit, it doesn't matter. When they first came out with the big round bales and they didn't have all the tools to go with it, so they used to get the spike, take it into the fold yard and then you'd have to cut the string, the bale of twine that went round it and then you'd have to roll it out. So the two of us rolling it out, twisting it, rolling it out and they thought oh this is good fun. So you're trying to push it and roll it out. One side, there's them, the other side. Oh, I'll have a bit of huffing.

[Interviewer]

I was going to ask, did you have any particular Animal, like as in one animal on the farm you got close to. Or you felt a kind of particular closeness too.

[Retired Painter]

They were getting the parlor redone, so we had to have an outside tin thing and had this one gorgeous lady, she was getting past her prime. She had really pendulous teeth, which were hard to get the cluster on. And one of them, she had a wart on and it kept popping off. And she had come to the same place. She always used to come to me. Same place. Creatures of habit. But bless her, you know, she used to like a little bit of a rubber, little cuddle. So. Yeah. Yeah. It's funny what sticks in your mind, isn't it? Yeah, that's lovely. It.

[Interviewer]

I'm going to ask you three more questions and I'm going to let you get on with your life.

[Retired Painter]

Thank you.

[Interviewer]

I like to do a thing where I'm going to ask you to close your eyes. But here's the task I think I'll need to. Okay. The task is to think back to a scene in your life that you can picture in the most detail. It doesn't have to be kind of a dramatic moment. It could be any moment at any time. Just something you remember really well from the past. I was wondering if you could try and describe that place and that moment to me. Whatever first comes into your head.

[Retired Painter]

So that's Northumberland and Bumbragh Castle and beach. And the tide is a long way back and you're looking onto it. You can see Farne Islands to the right, you can see Lindisfarne and Holy island to the left. And sort of in front of us where the sea has gone back, there's little areas where the sand has formed, dells and the water in there. It's a hot day and it's put your feet in and it's just nice and warm and glorious and you're there building all sorts of sand animals, anything that you want. Do a fish, an octopus. We're not just doing castles and it's such a glorious time. Perfect. Absolutely perfect. You couldn't ask for a better view. Have you been to Bamboo Castle? No, I haven't. Please do, girl. Take those daughters.

[Interviewer]

Great idea.

[Retired Painter]

Absolutely fantastic. Yeah, lovely.

[Interviewer]

I'll do it. Do you have any great visions for your. What your funeral would look like?

[Retired Painter]

It's up to my son. I would like my ashes spread somewhere near Dunstanburg Castle. Failing that.

[Interviewer]

Any part of it in particular?

[Retired Painter]

No. It's a lovely walkway.

[Interviewer]

Just anywhere near it is fine.

[Retired Painter]

I love rock pooling. They don't, strangely. Enough. I brought a child up who doesn't like rock pooling. I've obviously done something wrong.

[Interviewer]

Still, still time.

[Retired Painter]

We did go up last year we went to. I took. He wanted to show her where spent his childhood. And there's me rock pooling and playing around on the sand. And there's M2 stood there. How are we going, dad? Things have reversed.

[Interviewer]

Something really well big touch wood here. But I'm certain it will skip a generation and a grandchild will be.

[Retired Painter]

And then we can spend all the time rock pooling. They can do what they like.

[Interviewer]

And then you'll have a rock falling friend.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah. So ash is scattered either there are a tree dedicated. I like trees. You should get to know trees. Do nothing else. Get to know. Look how it's growing. Why is it growing like that? And that one's. They're all different. Every single one is different.

[Interviewer]

And as soon as you think about them, as soon as you start noticing them, you notice so much.

[Retired Painter]

You notice so much. That's why when you're painting them you think, oh, that's gone wrong. Oh, no, it hasn't. Because branches don't grow straight. There's a reason for that.

[Interviewer]

Sir, do you have a particular tree in your life that's significant? As in one sand?

[Retired Painter]

No, not really.

[Interviewer]

You would like one planted feet.

[Retired Painter]

There's York Arboretum. You can go and have a look and find one and they'll put a plaque on it.

[Interviewer]

You know, what would you like? You know, if a plaque was written for you and you can have your name and then a handful of words that you've written, what would you say on that?

[Retired Painter]

On that plaque? I just. Basically, we've devoted our lives, my wife and my son. Really. I haven't achieved great things, but not too bad.

[Interviewer]

Well, I think, I think it's a great achievement.

[Retired Painter]

Thank you very much. I mean, you know, what is an

[Interviewer]

achievement other than I've got a happy boat.

[Retired Painter]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Intending to do things that make people happier because of it and, and doing it well. That's an achievement.

[Retired Painter]

32 year old and I got a hug. So I'm pleased, you know, and I hope you still get many.

[Interviewer]

Oh, yeah. Only one of my children hugs me. The other one. The other one hates it.

[Retired Painter]

It'll come, it'll come back.

[Interviewer]

Well, listen, I really, really enjoyed talking.

[Retired Painter]

I've enjoyed talking to you as well

[Interviewer]

and I'm really, I'm pleased that chance brought us together.

[Retired Painter]

Nice. Nice to meet you. Please do try and get to Northumberland.

[Interviewer]

I will.

[Retired Painter]

With your two daughters, you'll really, really enjoy it.

[Interviewer]

I'll do that. It's a promise. Okay. Well, we've reached the last question, which is. What are you going to do next?

[Retired Painter]

No.

[Interviewer]

However you want to answer the question.

[Retired Painter]

I'm gonna go for a drink and then come back and paint a tree.

[Interviewer]

Well, I hope. I hope it's. It's a lovely tree. And I really enjoy talking to you.

[Retired Painter]

And me, too. Yes. Thank you very much.

[Interviewer]

Thank you.

[Retired Painter]

And I'm glad we've met.

[Interviewer]

I'm glad, too.

[Observer]

Painting stories around my eyes. Got rings just like a tree Trunk full of tals that ain't been told. On a pocket full of seas. Some are red and some are so blue Might as well be green. Oh my, oh my, oh my. Looking down the barrel of each bow more crooked king don't pay no mind. Cause the crow don't fly as straight as you might think. Never ever have I seen a branch grow straight why would I want it too? Oh my, oh my, oh my. Couldn't miss it if you tried. Love wrapped around my heart like rings of a tree. The years they fly like a bird of prey but it don't bother me much There are things in my head that it can't kill and dreams it'll never catch well, ain't it funny what sticks in your mind after all this time? Oh, my, oh, my. Could miss it if you tried. Got life around my bones like rings of a tree the stories round us like rings of a tree the love right round my heart like rings of a tree Sam.