EPISODE 98: Realistically I Should Be Dead

Summary

Strangers on a Bench — Episode 98: “Realistically I Should Be Dead”

Host: Tom Rosenthal
Date: July 27, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply personal and candid episode, Tom Rosenthal encounters a young, anonymous stranger accompanied by a friend on a park bench in the UK. What starts as a light-hearted chat about favorite days of the week unfolds into a gripping, moving life story. The guest describes surviving multiple traumatic accidents, struggling with addiction, building and losing friendships, navigating grief, and trying to find purpose and stability amid a whirlwind of experiences. His openness leads to a heartfelt, sometimes gritty, exploration of resilience, mental health, relationships, and the need for self-understanding.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Anatomy of a Perfect Thursday ([00:49]–[07:12])

• Morning Rituals: The guest enjoys waking up at 9 a.m. to a sunny, cartoon-clouded sky, beginning the day with a sweet builders’ brew (two sugars) and a cigarette.
  • “I like a sweet tea in the morning. It’s really bad.” (Guest, 01:55)
• Managing ADHD: A routine walk around the heath with headphones is essential for mental organization; the guest uses this time to write to-do lists and process thoughts—a coping mechanism for his “very bad ADHD.”
  • “Headphones in, walk around, it’s quiet, I can vibe.” (Guest, 03:32)
• Impulse Getaways and Airport Tactics: Ideal day includes randomly booking a same-day flight on Skyscanner, often for tobacco runs, just for the experience. Airport lounge access for value and quiet is a must; the guest shares savvy, frugal traveler tips.
  • “I always take a little flask and tip the beer into that so you can have it on the plane. Save yourself another €7.” (Guest, 06:13)

2. Addiction, Overthinking, and Coping ([02:24]–[04:25])

• Discusses a hierarchy of addictions—sugar is low on the list compared to others, with overthinking and smoking having a bigger impact on day-to-day life.
  • “Addictions are not good.” (Guest, 02:24)
  • “Having a natural thing of just overthinking … when I have a smoke, that gets worse.” (Guest, 02:46)
• Describes an addictive personality and ways routine helps manage it.

3. Surviving Trauma: BMX, Crashes, and Recovery ([07:32]–[22:28])

• Catalogue of Accidents: List of life-altering physical traumas:
  • 39 broken bones, car crash at 18 (“the notebook accident”), two flatlines, multiple fractured bones and surgeries, traumatic brain injury, teeth knocked out, prolonged bullying.
    • “I flatlined twice. And that was only over the last ten years.” (Guest, 08:00)
    • “I used to BMX in my younger years. Got hit by a car five and a half years ago. Shattered my right leg…” (Guest, 07:35)
• Profound Impact: Car crash left the guest bed-bound for a year; reflects on the loneliness and lack of support during his recovery.
• Writing as Therapy: Journaling became a lifeline, helping him process trauma and track personal growth.
  • "...writing is such a great exercise for the mind…Helps me process all the stuff…I have like diaries for the last four years…gives me such a drive to be like, oh no, you are doing well…” (Guest, 10:03–10:55)

4. The Loss of a Best Friend ([28:30]–[37:46])

• Sudden Death: Talks openly about his closest friend’s suicide—how it upended his festival business, the destructive bender that followed, and the deep sense of loss.
  • “He was that type of guy—if I called him and I’m like, yo, I need help…he was by my side and I was like, that’s a friend, that’s family.” (Guest, 28:52)
  • “I don’t believe that it was suicide…there’s a lot of stuff surrounding his death that I don’t believe or understand, but I can’t change.” (Guest, 30:41)
• Processing Grief: Explains impact on trust and relationships—a shift toward a much smaller, protective social circle.

5. Relationships and the Need for Stability ([39:43]–[46:55])

• Romantic Situationship: Open about a complicated but meaningful relationship—with themes of longing for connection but feeling incompatible due to different life goals.
  • “We work too well and it’s too nice together for me just to throw it away…she just wants a very casual life, whereas I’m more like, I want to have a property in London, property everywhere…”
• Advice from Host: Tom reflects on his own experience, stressing that a solid relationship is foundational to success and mental health.
  • “If everything is there—good chemistry, getting on, understanding each other…that should be something that’s worked on and taken incredibly seriously.” (Interviewer, 47:52)

6. Mental Health, ADHD, Business, and Modeling ([24:49]–[57:01])

• Life as a Young Entrepreneur: Describes the challenges of running a festival business from his bedroom, struggling to “switch off,” and how ADHD fuels constant new projects.
  • “But I’m always doing sign. I never switch off. My brain doesn’t work like that, unfortunately. I wish it could.” (Guest, 24:35)
• Struggles with Pub Work: Recently quit a stressful supervisor job, recognizing its negative impact on his mental health and relationships.
• Modeling Industry: Describes it as “horrible, horrible, horrible industry insanity.” Details the superficial standards, lifestyle restrictions, drugs, and how the work can be dehumanizing.
  • "You just get treated for a shell." (Guest, 56:50)
  • “There’s an image…you fit this image. Like, I’m not allowed to get tattoos without approval. I’m not meant to smoke in public…” (Guest, 53:39)

7. Family Dynamics and Generational Trauma ([59:42]–[64:49])

• Absent Father: Explains how his father, burdened by his own trauma, was ultimately pushed out by the family for being emotionally unavailable.
  • “My dad’s shown me more how not to be as a man than how to be as a man.” (Guest, 60:17)
• Motivation: His drive to succeed and care for his mother and sisters is tied directly to these family experiences.
• Therapy: Skeptical but open to the potential benefits of talking therapy, especially if it involved walking outdoors.
  • "I struggle to pay someone to listen, for sure…Doesn’t sit well with me." (Guest, 62:11)
  • “I think it’s something I will look into…we’re going to add the therapist onto the list.” (Guest, 65:10–65:31)

8. Reflection and the Role of Memory ([66:16]–[68:49])

• Safe Spaces: Closes eyes and vividly describes playing cards with family; the unconditional love in his grandparents’ living room stands out as a symbol of safety and warmth—contrasting with the chaos elsewhere in life.
  • "There was an unconditional love and pure—a pure loving care for each other in that room. Just, you could feel it." (Guest, 68:23)

9. Looking Forward ([69:41]–[70:44])

• After this intense conversation, the guest intends to reflect on the issues raised, focus on building a stronger foundation in life, and perhaps take himself out for dinner, followed by journaling about the experience.
  • "This conversation…has made me realize some stuff that I’ve kind of pushed to the back and not really realized has impacted me so much when it has…" (Guest, 69:55)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On survival:
  “I’m a cat with nine lives that I. Realistically, I should be dead.” ([13:51], Guest)

• On self-reflection:
  “My dad’s shown me more how not to be as a man than how to be as a man.” ([60:17], Guest)
  “Every day is a bonus for me. I’m lucky to be alive, but I genuinely—I feel it.” ([35:57], Guest)

• On relationships:
  “If you feel like someone understands you and is a stabling factor in your life, really give this person a chance.” ([44:05], Interviewer/Tom)

• On hardships and growth:
  “I would not change any of my accidents at all…because I wouldn’t be who I am if it weren’t for every single one of the moments…” ([17:20], Guest)

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Important Timestamps

• 00:49–07:12: Mapping out the “Perfect Thursday” and daily rituals
• 07:32–22:28: Cataloguing physical traumas and the impact of accidents (the “notebook accident” and others)
• 28:30–37:46: Exploring the death of the guest’s best friend and its aftermath
• 39:43–46:55: Relationships, stability, and advice from the host
• 53:19–57:01: Life and struggles in the modeling industry
• 59:42–65:31: Family history, father’s absence, and contemplation of therapy
• 66:16–68:49: Vivid memory of a safe, loving childhood space
• 69:41–70:44: Looking ahead, reflecting on personal growth
• 73:31–76:52: Musical reflections and poetic outro

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Tone and Language

The tone remains raw yet warm, deeply honest, often self-deprecating but not self-pitying. There’s a sense of humor (often dark), and moments of tenderness—especially when discussing family and close friends. Both Tom and the guest use frank language around pain, addiction, and grief, but always circle back to hope, learning, and the desire to build something better from life’s wreckage.

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Summary for Listeners:
This episode is a masterclass in open conversation—a real, unscripted unraveling of trauma, resilience, humor, heartbreak, and hope. Whether you’ve ever wondered about the lives of strangers or need a reminder that everyone’s fighting unseen battles, Episode 98 is a testament to survival and the unexpected wisdom found on a park bench.

Transcript

[Interviewer]

Hello. Sorry to bother you. Can I ask you a slightly odd question? I'm making a podcast called Strangers on a Bench, where essentially I talk to people I don't know on benches for 10 or 15 minutes. Are you up for that? Do you want to give it a. You ready for the first question?

[Guest]

Okay, hit me.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What's your favorite day of the week?

[Guest]

Have to be like, Thursday.

[Interviewer]

Beautiful. For what it's worth, I also agree with you on the same.

[Guest]

You ain't at the beginning, but you ain't at the end. You know the stuff you haven't done and you've got enough time to do it. But then also, there's also enough time to where you can be like, I don't have to do it right now. I can do it on Saturday before it's the end of the week. So, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Okay, let's go for like a Thursday. You don't have to do whatever you do for money on that particular day.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What would make a perfect Thursday for you?

[Guest]

Oh, okay. Weather as well.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, you can choose the weather. Okay, I'll let you decide the weather. And I, you know, take me from getting up. Take me from getting up all the way to going to sleep.

[Guest]

Get up. Cup of tea.

[Interviewer]

What time we go waking up?

[Guest]

Maybe like 9 o'. Clock. Lovely sunny morning. The sun's coming through.

[Interviewer]

Sunny one. You have a couple clouds in the sky at all.

[Guest]

Maybe a couple. But really puffy cloud. Coffee clouds.

[Interviewer]

Cartoon.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Like in the Simpsons.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah. If you have a cup of tea and a cig. Relax.

[Interviewer]

What kind of tea?

[Guest]

Builders brew, man. Two sugars. I like a sweet tea in the morning. It's really bad.

[Interviewer]

Have you always had that?

[Guest]

No, I've developed kind of a bad sweet tooth recently.

[Interviewer]

Just recently. It's a new thing.

[Guest]

I've been recently, I say the last year.

[Companion]

Okay.

[Guest]

I mean, I used to spend a lot of time in Spain. That was where my cup of tea in a cig in the morning, I don't drink coffee. And then it was like, oh, I want to feel like more at home. Started adding two. And then it was like, just got addicted to that sweetness of it. But, yeah, wake up.

[Interviewer]

We get onto other addictions.

[Guest]

Yeah, addictions are not good.

[Interviewer]

Where does your two sugar addiction rank in your list of potential addictions?

[Guest]

Oh, that's low.

[Interviewer]

Oh, there's more.

[Guest]

Yeah, there's a lot of other bad. Like, I've got a very addictive personality to stuff, so. And I.

[Interviewer]

That's right down at the bottom.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Even lesser Addictions than two sugars.

[Guest]

Two sugars. Having a natural thing of just overthinking the overthinker. Yeah. When I have a smoke that gets worse. It's a lot worse. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So that's an addiction. Anyway, back to the third. I mean, let's not. Let's not be too off course too.

[Guest]

Of course.

[Companion]

Here.

[Interviewer]

We only got to the tea and

[Guest]

it got to tea.

[Interviewer]

Are you looking when you have your tea?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Oh, by the way, when you've taken the sugar, have you got little cubes like in a cafe or teaspoons?

[Guest]

And then I get dressed on a quick shower, get dressed, come for a walk around the heath every day without fail. Go for an hour walk.

[Interviewer]

Okay. You do that anyway. So this is an ideal. We're talking about an ideal day now. But you would. You would do this anyway.

[Guest]

I do this anyway. I have to go for a walk.

[Interviewer]

So a big walk.

[Guest]

Big walk. Because I've got really bad adhd. So headphones in, walk around, it's quiet, I can vibe. I write down in my diary all the stuff I have to get done for the week. That for me, that's a perfect morning. It's just chill. And then you go home. And then you start the endless list of stuff you've written whilst you're sitting over the heat, feeling really motivational about the day.

[Interviewer]

So you've written stuff you're gonna do

[Guest]

in that day for the week.

[Interviewer]

Is that what you were doing when I approached you?

[Guest]

I'm writing down what. What I'm gonna say. I handed in my notice to work the other day.

[Companion]

Huge.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well done. So, yeah, let's get to that.

[Interviewer]

Let's deal with the Thursday first. So we're banking that. Shall I tell you what I've banked already so far? We've banked a diction.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Interviewer]

Sounds like there's some more dictionary bits there. Then we're banking you. Handing you your notice.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So we'll come back to those. Yeah, yeah, we're etching those in.

[Guest]

There's gonna be a lot more. You're in for a treat, man. Oh, here we go.

[Interviewer]

Let's see how much retreat this is gonna be.

[Guest]

This is intriguing, especially for a random person you walk up to. My story is very interesting.

[Interviewer]

So did you used to put three sugars in?

[Guest]

Yeah, it was wild. It was insane.

[Interviewer]

You said flick it in.

[Guest]

Just down the shoulder.

[Interviewer]

Three sugars, guy. So, Right. You always have your walk around. You write in your book about what I'm going to do. That Day.

[Guest]

Yep.

[Interviewer]

This is. We're talking about your ideal day here. You can have a nice time, walk

[Guest]

around the heave, walk around the heath, go on Skyscanner, other airplane apps are available. That is very true. You look across the board.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

For nice cheap flights to destinations and you like, sod it, book it. And then ideally you just go straight to the airport and go for holiday that day. For that day, that day and then

[Interviewer]

come back that night.

[Guest]

Depending. Depending if I need tobacco or not. If I'm just doing it as a tobacco run. It's cheaper to go to Europe to buy tobacco and come back the same day that it is to buy at the shop for a week or month.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. What are you like in an airport? What is your airport strategy?

[Guest]

Fast track security straight to the lounge because you spend 20 quid on lounge pass.

[Interviewer]

You always go to the lounge because

[Guest]

the logic behind it is you'll spend 20 quid in Wetherspoons or Burger King and you only get one meal. But you go to a lounge, you get unlimited drinks, buffet style food and it's quiet and then you just. I make sure to have like four or five drinks, four plates of food. So then I'm like, I'm stocked up and I always take a little flask and tip the beer into that so you can have it on the plane. Save yourself another €7.

[Interviewer]

Wisdom, wisdom. So you do have an airport strategy. I knew it.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

So the Thursday is. I feel like this is a bit disjointed because you've written down stuff in the morning about what you're gonna do that day.

[Guest]

Oh, but that, that's.

[Interviewer]

And then you've just got on a plane.

[Guest]

Okay. Yeah, perfect. Thursday. No other days of the week connected, no other responsibilities. Wake up, tea walk, write down, write how I feel. Write down a plan for stuff I need to get done. I've got now 12 hours left of the day or 13 hours to do whatever I want. It would be book a flight to like Nice, spend the day there, eat some nice calamari, cheap wine, then fly back, get taxi home, go to bed. Calamari and wine in the south of France. Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Maybe we should do it. Maybe it's destiny.

[Guest]

Next Thursday, I'm going away. Next Sunday, south of Italy, going to Barry. Barry, Barry, Barry, Barry, Barry, Barry, Barry.

[Interviewer]

Got any friends called Barry?

[Guest]

We've got an uncle called Barry, of course. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

That feels like an uncle's name.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Are we close to Barry the uncle?

[Guest]

Not really.

[Interviewer]

Oh, no, no, no.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What's he not done. What have you not done?

[Guest]

No, I'm just not.

[Interviewer]

Whose fault is it?

[Guest]

It's not really anyone's fault. It's just a joint thing where just. My life has been very crazy. I've, like, done a lot of stuff to myself. I'll give you a little. So I broke 39 bones in my body. I used to BMX in my younger years. Got hit by a car five and a half years ago. Shattered my right leg, broke two teeth inside. Fractured my upper, lower spine, two broken ribs, shattered my eye socket, broke my scar in four different places. Bleed in the brain. I flatlined twice. And that was only over the last 10 years.

[Interviewer]

That was it last week, yeah.

[Guest]

After all that, then I got into modeling and acting. Got into that four years ago, and then lived a crazy life for the last, like, three years. And then last year, my best mate killed himself and I just went downhill quite quickly and pulled back from everything I do. And now I started a festival store business doing airbrushed toes and custom T shirts.

[Interviewer]

It's up. Perfect.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

No, I'm joking. Okay, hang on. The last thing you said. Did you say airbrushed toes?

[Guest]

Airbrushed tattoos?

[Interviewer]

Sorry. Okay, fine.

[Guest]

Airbrushed toes.

[Interviewer]

I was like, you're airbrushing people's toes at festivals. I mean, that is. I mean, someone's got to do it.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah. So airbrush tattoos, like temporary airbrush toes and custom T shirts and. Yeah, it's quite lucrative and quite fun.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Okay. This is beautiful. This is beautiful. I was interested in your thing about writing and needing to write stuff every day and what that means to you. Can you tell me where and how that started and why it is so important to you?

[Guest]

I used to hate writing. I have really bad ADHD and dyslexia. I used to have a speech impediment growing up where I used to have a really bad stutter. And then, like, one of my punishments as a kid was I would have to write lines.

[Interviewer]

What, in school?

[Guest]

No, at home when I was like. I used to swear quite a lot when I was a kid. My mum used to hate it, so she used to make me write lines in a book, being like, I must not swear, I must not swear. And then as I got older, I kind of, like, I always wanted to, but it was more because I never understood my brain. I never understood why I didn't enjoy doing it. So when I got hit by the car, I couldn't walk for a year. I spent like six months just laying in bed and there was so Much stuff going on, especially with adhd that I learned by writing it I can let go of. Helps me process all the stuff. And I feel like writing is such a great exercise for the mind. The same way, like if you say something to someone, it's been said, you're like, oh, I've said it, it's done. I feel like. But that's the same with writing. Rather than just thinking it, once it's out your hands, done it, you have to let you process it more. And it's also just a nice personal diary or journal for yourself to look back on over the years. Like I have like diaries for the last four years. When I feel like I'm not doing well within myself or well within my life, I look back at the goals I set myself back then and I'm like, fuck. That 21 year old version of me would not have believed where I am now. It's like that gives me such a drive to be like, oh no, you are doing well or you're not a failure. You've done way more than you said you were going to do years ago.

[Interviewer]

Beautifully said.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I'm interested in why after the accident, the car crash, the car hit you, so your kit hit you or you in the car.

[Guest]

So I was BMXing going down Hampstead. The guy didn't see me turn right. I can show you the video. Turned right and just, I went straight into it.

[Interviewer]

There's a video.

[Guest]

So I wore a GoPro. Oh, wow.

[Interviewer]

You want me to see it?

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. I, I, okay, let's see.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I mean, just before you watch this. Yeah. What does this mean for you to watch this? Do you like, does this not like, I don't want to like reach out?

[Guest]

No, no, this, this is what's made me so comfortable with talking about it. I was, I battled with this for, for years. But I can't change it. I'll never be able to get rid of the memory of it. I see, see stuff in images, but by doing this, you know, I'm so comfortable with the idea of that I have crashed and that wizard is part of me. Okay, so let's go. Where should we go from? Okay, so you're coming down.

[Interviewer]

So you're coming. Oh, there we go.

[Guest]

And then right here where I stood up and drop, then I'm screaming. Okay, give you a little bit of audio.

[Interviewer]

Oh no, I don't know if I want the audio. Do you want the audio? Oh God. Do you want the audio?

[Guest]

No, no, no, you don't, you don't Honestly, I've shown people and they've gone. I will never forget that.

[Interviewer]

It's like, oh, okay, that's good. That's good. We didn't hear it.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, it's.

[Interviewer]

Hang on. So you're going pretty fast down there at that point.

[Guest]

Not a little bit, but under the speed limit on a pedal bike. And, like, we. I took him to court and everything. So he got found driving about due care and attention. And, yeah, he just turned out in front of me, and I had no chance to stop. And either way, it was just like the impact was inevitable and it was just whom. Do you know that feeling your stomach when you get throat? Like, you kind of go over that hill too quick and you go, whoa. When it feels it. I felt that. Prior to that, I crashed four other times in skate parks. One time, my wheel slipped out, I went up, came back down. Thankfully, I had a helmet on this time. Helmet hit the metal coping. I came down, smacked my back, fractured my lower spine and inside, fractured my C7, knocked myself out. I got up and literally, thankfully, there was an ambulance passing by. I was like, fuck, he's in so much pain. Kind of pulled myself out the bowl, laid down, and then had a seizure. But by that point, the ambulance had come. I got defibrillated coming back in, and then. And then they put a neck brace on me because they were scared for my spine. I said my spine was hurting, put me onto a thing, and then I had another seizure. And then. Flat lines.

[Interviewer]

Flatlining is when your heart stop, as if someone needs to shock you back

[Guest]

into life, defibrillate you. And even that. That experience in itself is like that feel, feel of electricity, just like kind of your eyes open, and it's like, wakey, wakey, Whoa. What happened? Right. And I've had a couple of these moments where, like, if I would have let go myself and mentally would have said, no, I'm done. I could have drifted off in. In. In a heartbeat. But every time I was like, no, I've got more to give to this world than just to die here. I made sure to keep my brain going. You're good, you're good, you're good, you're good, you're good, you're good, you're good. And just push myself. I'm a cat with nine lives that I. Realistically, I should be dead. Sorry, it's just kind of brought up some stuff that I feel like I've never properly processed. That's kind of nice to have this conversation about. Sorry.

[Interviewer]

It's okay. No apologies needed. You went. You went from one. Yeah, sorry. You went from one crash to another there.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

There were two crashes, four that we were dealing with. So the one we were dealing with initially was the one going down the hill. And you stood up. Why did you stand up?

[Guest]

I was on, so BMX and skateboarding. Whenever you crash, run it off. Literally. Get up, run it off, Shake yourself. You're like, no, I'm fine. Fine. Because it's like, if not that shock will, like, it will mess you up. And by that point, I'd crash countless times and I'd just like, yeah, run it off. I'm fine. And then, yeah, stood up and I was like, oh, no, oopsie. I think we messed up this time. It's bad.

[Interviewer]

So that was five years ago?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And so this was the crash that got you writing?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And how quickly after the crash were you writing?

[Guest]

Yeah, I feel like I never. I didn't really have a strong support circle around me after the crash. So then why is that still? I was 18 when it happened. 17. My birthday was two weeks later. And no one is through Covid. None of my friends really came to see me, apart from one.

[Interviewer]

Why?

[Guest]

Because it's that thing of, like, who's a true friend? Like, your moment of need. The ones that are really there for you will show themselves. And I had only two mates out of, like, quite an extensive friendship group that were there at my house every day. I can't walk. I'm on morphine and codeine, just sleeping majority of the day, and I'm just annoyed. And then it was like, yeah, just started writing stuff down and it was kind of like letting out some anger and stuff that I had about the crash and people around me. There was a little spark inside me of like, oh, this is kind of fun. Because no one else would ever see it. It didn't have to be neat handwriting. My spelling wasn't critiqued by teachers, so I was like, I actually enjoy this now. But. Yeah. And then over the year, I got better at it and. Or understanding what I really wanted to write. Then I found the benefit. I was trying to understand myself. I think it's the biggest part of it, what things make me who I am the best way.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So this is a really. Actually, the time you spent with yourself in that. In this year was pretty pivotal.

[Guest]

Oh, massive. It completely changed. I would not change any of my accidents at all. When I'm 60, I'm going to be in so much pain. So many problems in my Body. It's unreal. But I wouldn't change it for the world because I wouldn't be who I am if it weren't for every single one of the moments that have led me to today. If I would have never smashed my two front teeth out When I was 13, I wouldn't have been bullied in school for four years. I wouldn't have been insecure and had so many insecurities about myself that the person I would have been now would have just been some cocky, egotistical guy. That would be horrible. And that I would hate. So I look back and I'm like, oh, no, thank you for bullying me. Thanks for taking the piss about my teeth. I really appreciate, like, genuinely, you got

[Interviewer]

back in touch with him, though, by the way. Thanks for bullying me.

[Guest]

No, I see him walking down the street and I'm there like, I'm proud. You sell drugs. I go and party and travel the fucking world. It gives me a drive. It pushes me to be like, I'm going to show you all those times you bullied me, that didn't mean jack.

[Interviewer]

In that year. Following the accident, we need to find different words for the different accents. I'm going to call down the hill the notebook accident.

[Guest]

I like that.

[Interviewer]

The other one we've learned about is the flatline.

[Guest]

Flatline.

[Interviewer]

The flatline one. There's the teeth one.

[Guest]

Yeah, the teeth.

[Interviewer]

Flatline one was after the teeth one.

[Guest]

So the teeth one was. I was 13. It was the first big one.

[Interviewer]

The teeth one. Famous teeth.

[Guest]

Famous teeth.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, teeth one.

[Guest]

14 was the bleed in the brain.

[Interviewer]

Okay, 14 bleed in the brain.

[Guest]

15 was when I done that.

[Interviewer]

Collarbone.

[Guest]

The collarbone. Then I had surgery, fixed it. And then the same day, after three months, I was allowed cycling home from the skate park. Literally. First day back, hit a pothole, crashed. And then I bent it. And then they were like, do you want to have another surgery? I went, no. And now I massively regret because I've got dodgy collarbone and it messes me up. Modeling.

[Interviewer]

Messes your modeling up. Yeah, because no one wants a dodgy

[Guest]

collarbone because you can see it on T shirts. And then also because of it, my head naturally leans to the right a tiny bit. So there was that.

[Interviewer]

Good for modeling.

[Guest]

No, no, because it looks so stupid on camera.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you might be the first model I've had on it. Exciting. And you know what the beautiful thing means? Absolutely nothing. Yeah, it's fuck all. No one knows you look like. No. Is that beautiful?

[Guest]

Yeah. That's what I love about podcast. You can Just talk. And it's like people build their own image.

[Interviewer]

And now they've got quite a good image of your protruding collarbone.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Messing up your photo shoots. And they go, can you put that back in? Can you just turn that down a bit on the collarbone front?

[Guest]

I. I lost the. I lost a job because of it once. I was like, okay, bye. Thank you. Nice day out.

[Interviewer]

Anyway, so it goes like this.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Front teeth, 1:13. Then we're going collarbone. Oh, no, hang on. What would you miss?

[Guest]

Bleeding the brain.

[Interviewer]

Bleeding the brain. Sorry, the favors being the brain. We missed that one.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Collarbone.

[Companion]

Fifteen.

[Guest]

Fifteen. Sixteen was the spine. And then.

[Interviewer]

Which is the flatty boy?

[Guest]

That's the fly boy.

[Interviewer]

And so that was, what, the fourth one.

[Guest]

They all get really merged. It's all get a bit merged.

[Interviewer]

You know, you've had a lot of crashes where they all get a bit merged.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Wait, look, there's. Then where's the next. So the other. Yeah, that was.

[Interviewer]

Oh, so this is a photo of you. I mean, that. That's a beautiful photograph.

[Guest]

That was a shattered eye socket.

[Interviewer]

Absolute mess.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Obvious question here, really is, did anybody say, listen, enough is enough? Yeah, yeah, yeah. And why didn't you listen to them?

[Guest]

I mean, it is a very good question. I think it is a very, very.

[Interviewer]

It's a really good question.

[Guest]

I mean, there's no real, real clear answer to why. I don't know. Why didn't. I just. Was like. I had such a passion for it. Like, BMXing was my release out of everything because of the bullying. I'd leave school, jump on my bike and, like, jumping down fucking stairs, doing crazy tricks. That thrill just took everything away from me and just made me feel like, oh, so, like I'm happy. Every time I crashed, I was like, well, I crashed, I've recovered, fixed the bike, carried on going. But then the car crash was like, okay, I'm 18 now. I've just got into modelling. Maybe I should stop. And then. Took too long to recover. And then by that point, when you're a kid and you're like, oh, it's fine, no fears, carry on going, I'm invincible. That kind of started to wear off and I started to feel a bit more like maybe I should think about the other 50 years of my life, not just the first 20.

[Interviewer]

So you have stopped now?

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah, I. I have it. I have it taken apart on my bedroom wall.

[Interviewer]

Oh, that's clever.

[Guest]

So nice touch. Such a big part.

[Interviewer]

What was that last. What was the last ride?

[Guest]

I've never rode that bike again. The one that I got hit on.

[Interviewer]

The Notebook crash.

[Guest]

The Notebook. But it was the same frame and back wheel that had been through three crashes with me. And like it will never go, I don't think. I think like, even when I'm older, like my son would want to get old, daughter would want to get into bmx and I would definitely get back on one with them. Because that adrenaline rush when you're just like, you're flying around, jumping over corners, it's like, I know if I break my leg again, I lose it. And it's kind of like I like that risk. I work well, being uncomfortable. I've got to be under pressure, deadlines and just like bang, kind of. I've got no other choice.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. So at some point it went away.

[Guest]

Yeah. For good.

[Interviewer]

It's own. It's now on your wall.

[Guest]

It's not on the wall, it's on the.

[Interviewer]

It's on the bedroom wall.

[Guest]

It's on the bedroom wall. Literally. And it always.

[Interviewer]

What else is on your bedroom wall? Give me a bedroom tour.

[Guest]

Bedroom tour. Four six foot tables down the side of my bed. Right. For the, for the festival business.

[Interviewer]

Oh, of course.

[Companion]

Right.

[Guest]

They're like folded.

[Interviewer]

Oh, okay. They're folded away.

[Guest]

Yeah, Folded away.

[Interviewer]

I was just like, what the fucking.

[Guest]

Yeah. Massive room.

[Interviewer]

What is the zoo? It's a ballroom.

[Guest]

They're just down the side and then you've got all the display boards, chest of drawers, big, nice mirror. And then a clothes rail with all the stylish clothes on to make them easier. I'm very picky with my clothing. Then you've got two gazebos shoved up against the wall.

[Interviewer]

So it's just basically like a mini vessel stand packed up in your room.

[Guest]

All packed up. Yeah. And then you've got.

[Interviewer]

Is that a bit like. How can you switch off from work?

[Guest]

I don't.

[Interviewer]

When literally your room is your work in your face. Is it not that far off? Basically. If you worked an office. I'm sleeping in an office.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Guest]

I run my company by myself. There's no other owners. There's no one else that works for me. I do all the admin, all the accounts, everything. But I'm always doing sign. I never switch off. My brain doesn't work like that, unfortunately. I wish it could.

[Interviewer]

There must be times you switch off more than others. So for instance, you do an hour walk.

[Guest]

Yeah. I'm still thinking my brain works in such a not messed up way, but it's constantly. I've got such bad adhd And I don't agree with taking medication for it, because it's me. I'm gonna have to deal with it at some point in my life. I might as well just get used to it and work with it. I just embrace it. And I'm like, well, let's just work. Spill something, build something. Because once it's all built and I've got it all done, then I can relax. But then once I do everything I need to get done, I have a day before my brain goes, oh, let's start something new, and then go on a whole new deep dive. Last summer I went, why don't we add a new niche to my. To my business? Let's do custom T shirts. Threw like 10 grand at it, and it just got way out of hand. And then now I've got now banners in two separate businesses that I'm trying to converge into one. It's just a mental nightmare.

[Interviewer]

So you've been working in a pub?

[Guest]

Yep, on and off for six years.

[Interviewer]

In what particular role?

[Guest]

Supervisor.

[Interviewer]

And so how did you handle the notice? How was it done?

[Guest]

Truthfully, I had a bad mental week and then I went to go, what

[Interviewer]

is a bad mental week?

[Guest]

A lot of stuff in the business went wrong, and then, like, relationships went a bit tits up.

[Interviewer]

Relationships.

[Guest]

I mean, relationships with people.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Guest]

But in particular, there was, like, one particular one. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is that with a romantic partner or friend?

[Guest]

Romantic partner.

[Interviewer]

Okay. Better now.

[Guest]

Better now. Yeah. Yeah.

[Companion]

Okay.

[Guest]

We're going on holiday next weekend.

[Companion]

Oh, there we go. Yeah.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Dabari.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

But not with Uncle Barry.

[Guest]

Not with Uncle Barry. No.

[Companion]

No, no.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

By the way, what would. I mean, if Uncle Barry did go with you to Bari, do you think he would be a bit of a buzzkill?

[Guest]

Yeah, he's a wet. He's a wet wipe. He's a fucking wet wipe. He's like,

[Interviewer]

poor Uncle Barry.

[Guest]

Poor Uncle Barry, man.

[Interviewer]

Absolutely.

[Guest]

You'd be roasted in this.

[Interviewer]

So good news. You fix it up with said romantic partner. So how was I? I got. You're having a difficult, difficult week.

[Guest]

And then I went away and I realized I've been wanting to quit this job for years. But, yeah, last Tuesday, I just went in, I was like, look, thank you so much for everything you've done. Really appreciate it. This job is stressing me out way too much. I've got too much stuff on my plate already.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

So I'm just. I'm done.

[Interviewer]

And how did that feel?

[Guest]

Great. Honestly. The best decision I could have made.

[Interviewer]

So now you're just your Lone Ranger with your businesses.

[Guest]

Yeah. I've got a very hectic two months ahead of me.

[Interviewer]

It's four systems go.

[Guest]

It's lock in, make it work. I lost some money last summer because my best mate died right at the beginning of the season.

[Interviewer]

Is this by suicide?

[Guest]

Yeah. And it really messed me up and I was like, I'm in no space to do the festivals and I lost like 15 grand. I paid all the pitch fees, so it's like $3 million.

[Interviewer]

So you paid the stuff, but you couldn't? Yeah.

[Guest]

And I was like, truthfully, there's no names here, so I can say whatever. Me in a field of 80,000 people with unlimited drugs and unlimited booze.

[Interviewer]

I would have died at that time.

[Guest]

At that time, I already like by not even being at a festival. I think I spent a grand in the first three days on alcohol and drugs. After he died, he was like my closest, closest family. We've been friends for nearly, like nine years. And it was so out of the blue. He was a prison officer, but was absolutely nuts. Like, insane. Lovely bloke, but just crazy.

[Interviewer]

Can I ask you how you met?

[Guest]

Met through school.

[Interviewer]

Sorry. So he went to school with you?

[Guest]

We went to school together.

[Interviewer]

Same year.

[Guest]

Same year. And then we disconnected a little bit and then we reconnected. And then me and him just like. He was like my confidant and he was that type of guy. If I called him and I'm like, yo, I need help, that. Even when he lived up in Leicester, I called him one night, he got his scooter, drove down to London, two hours, and he was here. He was by my side and I was like, that's a friend, that's family.

[Interviewer]

Do you mind talking about his death?

[Guest]

Yeah. He was a prison officer and he just got moved to a pedophile wing and his. One of his family members had been sexually assaulted when she was younger, and he found it really hard being on the wing. And then he put in the transfers to move down to London and it was in the process. And then he spoke to someone. He felt really emotional. He spoke to this person, told him to man up.

[Interviewer]

Who did he speak to? You mean in his profession?

[Guest]

Spoke to a big influence in his life. And then they basically told him to man up. And then four days later, he was found in his flat. Two days before his birthday, he died. And I got a call whilst I was at work, telling me from his sister, and it was like, fuck, he was crazy. Crazy motherfucker. He did not give a shit about anyone. Like someone Tried to pull a knife on me, him and our other mate in Camden. Once he turned round, grabbed a bottle and just walked up to his boat. He used to be called stab proof Jamie because he would walk around in stab proof vest. He was so egotistical, but then also gay as well. He would fuck guys, girls up. We went out once and he started chatting up this 50 year old man by fucking stroking his beard, being like, let me take you home and call you daddy. This is the first time I ever knew that he was bi. And it spun me. I'm like, what? He just did not care. I don't believe that it was suicide, but I can't go too deep into that because I can't change it. And the police won't look at it in any other way. Someone, a rumor. Rumor has it that there was two kilos of cocaine in his flat and two phones. And he wasn't a drug dealer. Used a lot of it, but never sold it, never brought kilos. So there's a lot of stuff surrounding his death that I don't believe or understand, but I can't change. Yeah, very odd turn of event. Did you really expect any of this when you walked up and asked for the conversation on a bench? I told you it would turn to

[Interviewer]

a. I mean, an interesting conversation. I've had many expectations, but there's a lot of big stories out there.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And I've heard a lot of stuff and I'm. And I'm just. I'm just trying to always figure out what's the best direction to take us in after hearing certain bits of information. So this guy sounds like a wild character.

[Guest]

He is wild.

[Interviewer]

So you're gonna have always gonna have more thoughts about his death and the possibilities of it. But in terms of you and receiving that news, obviously it hit you. Totally smashed you up.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So how long ago was it now?

[Guest]

Nearly a year. Actually, it's gonna be a year and two weeks.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Guest]

Oh, a week actually.

[Interviewer]

I mean, if it's enough time. I mean, obviously these things sometimes take a really long time to process. But from the moment it happened to now, has it changed anything fundamentally new to have that happen?

[Guest]

Yeah. I know a lot of people, but I don't have many friends, okay. Right.

[Interviewer]

Why?

[Guest]

Because I've learned to enjoy my own company and to keep my circle people around me very tight. Because I will give everything I have, even if it's like my last penny. I'll give it to you if you need it. And I can help you. I'll help And I. Throughout the years, I've. I've been taken advantage of a lot by people. Then it's me. So now I'm very, very tight with what. What I give people and who I keep around me. It's lovely to see him at the pub, but I would never tell them anything personal or let them come into my group. Like, when he passed, that, that messed me up because he was that person.

[Interviewer]

Why was he that person?

[Guest]

Because he. He knew me through so much and he never judged me for anything. He accepted me for me, for my positives and my flaws and he made me want to be better, in a way, and gave me that level of confidence I never had. My attitude of being like, nah, fuck it, let's do it, has come from him. Like, I've never. I'll never have experiences like I had with him, with anyone else.

[Interviewer]

Was he someone you aspired to be more like?

[Guest]

No, no, no, no, no, no. He was. He was insane. He said stuff that was outrageously outrageous.

[Interviewer]

Sure.

[Guest]

Realistically, there are times where I wanted to punch him in his face. Like, you can't say that.

[Interviewer]

So you were fascinated by him?

[Guest]

Yeah, fascinated is.

[Interviewer]

Is a good way to describe, like a remarkable, extraordinary.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

In the full use of the word character.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah. He brought out a side of me, a laddie side of me. Like, they've.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Guest]

Let's go up. Because that. That's so far from who I am.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Guest]

Well, not. Not so far from like, I am. I'm like, I grew up. I grew up on a council estate. Teenage years. We were surrounded by drug dealers and loads of people I know that are in prison, but that's not the life I want or live at all. I live such a different life to everyone around me. But he was. Come, let's go get the ray and nephews. Let's just go take pills on a random night out, end up in a random house, garden at four in the morning being like, why are we here? What are we doing? I've never had that with anyone else. No one else pulls that out of me or, like, makes me want to be like, yeah, let's go party, let's go get. But he did and I loved it.

[Interviewer]

Is he at all similar to riding a bmx, as in, like, the human equivalent of that for you? Yeah, obviously you really need that.

[Guest]

Just having. Having crazy, crazy experiences again because of all the stuff that's happened to me every day is a bonus.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Guest]

But I shouldn't have a leg. When I went to surgery for the Car.

[Interviewer]

Which one? Which one? Notebook.

[Guest]

The notebook. The notebook Crash.

[Interviewer]

Get it right, mate.

[Guest]

Get it right.

[Interviewer]

Come on, get your own crash name. Right.

[Guest]

With the notebook. Crash.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

They told me you're most probably gonna lose your leg.

[Interviewer]

Right.

[Guest]

Right. Then I came out of surgery with my leg. It went the best possible way it could have gone. I can't remember what the moral link back to that was. Kind of. I kind of lost myself for my own story there. Oh, that was it. I was saying about the thing of, like, because of all that, every day is a bonus for me.

[Interviewer]

There we go.

[Guest]

Yeah. I'm lucky to be alive, but I genuinely. I feel it. But every day it's like, I'm so grateful to wake up and just to be alive.

[Interviewer]

I understand it now. Hang on, I'm getting it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

This person for you, you know, you obviously have a rare and interesting need for, like, highs.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And thrills and full throttle experience. Right?

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And so this person gave you a kind of safe space to do that. Someone who could take you there. And so you felt understood by him in that sense. Yeah, because he got that and you got that in him.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Is that fair? Am I. Am I getting this right? I think.

[Guest]

I think that's fair. I feel like it's also with that is he also knew me through it all. Because it's so hard to explain to someone, because what. When you look at me at first, I say, oh, yeah, I've been hit by a car, broke. 39, both. Everyone's like, oh, what the fuck? Just yappering. But no one really understands the effect that it had on me. But he did, because he had seen through all of it from me smashing my teeth out. He saw the four years of bullying, he saw all the.

[Interviewer]

Oh, so you knew him from. Of course, when we scored.

[Guest]

So he saw everything. So he seen me from being some proper little angry teenager to being where I am now. And it gave me such comfort.

[Interviewer]

Like, was he able or is anyone able to. Of emotionally support you? To what extent were you kind of introspective about each other's lives?

[Guest]

We were very close. Like, we spoke about everything. We were able to have those proper deep chats, talk about stuff. But then we also, when we were in those kind of dark places, both of us, we're like, no, come, let's go out. And we would go out, we would have a fucking blast of a time and then feel great and you're like, oh, yeah, life is fucking whoa. And then we would pull each other out to get each other Back up.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And yeah, I just, I don't. I don't have. I don't have anyone like that. As you're saying about addictions as well, like, if something's there, I'm going to do it. I drink a lot. And then once I do it for a couple days, I'm like, oh, well, I can just go and drink it. And then end up turned into like four. A four month bender. And you're like, I've got a problem now. I've got to stop. And then I stop, get. Get myself back on track. And then I'm like, oh, well, I've had. I've had like six months where I've actually been really good. Let's have a drink. And then it's like that bad, repetitive cycle.

[Interviewer]

So how are you drinking, like currently?

[Guest]

No, no, no.

[Interviewer]

So you're off it for a bit.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Do you consider yourself an alcoholic?

[Guest]

No. No.

[Interviewer]

There are points. You've thought about it.

[Guest]

There are points where I have kind of thought like, okay, I might have a little bit of a drinking problem where I can like drink four bottles of wine and it just be like nine, like a neck, a large glass of wine in one.

[Interviewer]

But so now you're not drinking at all or you don't think you have a problem?

[Guest]

I've cut down. Like there was a period like last month and a half ago, there was like, I had a really. I just went on some like wild bender for like two weeks and just got. Every day. I was just getting pissed and like, really? I realized it also was messing me up. Drinking every day, especially at a young age. This is not good for your mental health. There's so. There's so much better stuff. I could also spend that money on. I love traveling. Yeah. I want out of this country to do it. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Maybe that's your next step.

[Guest]

Yeah. So I've just started chapter two of my life. Chapter one.

[Interviewer]

After the. Obviously you handed the notice.

[Guest]

Leaving the job was the final part for me of getting out the moment. And so now I'm like, that was it.

[Interviewer]

You could just, just. You're gonna go to big barrier. Then you just be like that. This is it.

[Guest]

Yeah. Stay. Oh, I so would.

[Interviewer]

So romantically. You've got somebody now.

[Guest]

Yeah, it's more a casual, weird situationship.

[Interviewer]

Okay. But not, not that casual because you're going to Bari together.

[Guest]

That's the point. That's how. It's a bit complicated. Leila. We both really appreciate each other, but also I think it's a relationship just Wouldn't really work right now in our

[Interviewer]

lives, but it is a kind of relationship already.

[Guest]

We work too well and it's too nice together for me just to throw it away. I was in toxic relationships before and I've never had something actually healthy.

[Interviewer]

Okay. And you deem this one to be healthy?

[Guest]

A lot healthier than the rest.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Guest]

Yeah. I care about her a lot. She's done a lot for me over the last couple months in like a. From a mental perspective.

[Interviewer]

Okay. But yet you would still call it a situation or casual.

[Guest]

I would want a relationship.

[Interviewer]

Okay.

[Guest]

But I think it's more. I've. I have some stuff that I need to sort out that she isn't a big fan of. Like, also the way I live my life, I've got so many dreams and aspirations with what I want to do and she just wants a very casual life. Like, she just wants to, you know, like, work a job, get a house, chill. Whereas I'm more like, I want to have a property in London. Property everywhere. My biggest goal by the age of 30, I want to throw 200 grand in front of my mum and my two sisters. Right. And that's the goal. Literally. No, literally. Throw it on the kitchen table, sat around my wad.

[Interviewer]

I wonder how many actually what you can hold in your hands cash wise.

[Guest]

I'll let you know when I'm 30.

[Interviewer]

He phones you up, Tom, I've just done it. And it actually is sadly not 200 grand. It was seven grand.

[Guest]

It was seven. You could offer seven grand.

[Interviewer]

What? And what do you imagine this situation to be? They're sitting down, having some cornflakes, whatever.

[Guest]

It'll be in my fucking house.

[Interviewer]

So you invited them round, invite them around for tea.

[Guest]

Nice dinner, you know, Come on.

[Interviewer]

Oh, it's a dinner. Nice. You've cooked it.

[Guest]

Cooked it, yeah, yeah. Just be like as a soul. Thank you. They helped me so much throughout the, like, crashes and everything. My mum's my biggest supporter and I want to be able to give them the opportunity I grew up with not having a real pot to piss in. And I feel like I'm the one in my family who's got a good chance at doing something big with my life where I make some big money and I can change the people around me life. And that's kind of a goal that I'm always going to be pushing until I achieve. I won't stop until I'm at that point.

[Interviewer]

Got it.

[Guest]

Giving them an option to experience life to the fullest. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Can I give you a tiny Bit of thought.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

In relation to the situationship.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

It's of my personal opinion at the age that I am now, which is gonna guess I said like 37, 39. Close. Oh, you know, you did really well.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Beautiful. In your life, you're gonna meet a lot of people, and you already have. I also have had a life where I've met a lot of people, not just on benches.

[Companion]

And

[Interviewer]

of those people, I've met of people that I could have been in a relationship with that was meaningful and special and had something extra. It's, you know, probably about three or four people.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What I'm getting at here is that, like, only a very small handful of those people are ones you could conceivably be in a good relationship with.

[Companion]

Right.

[Interviewer]

You don't get that many chances. My personal belief is, from what you've told me of this person.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

The fact that she's helped you mentally, that she's like a stable factor in your life. And clearly it's like time where a lot is happening and has happened. It's a lot to process and you'll still be processing it. I'm not surprised. You write a lot of stuff down. I can see why you do. I'm surprised you haven't written, you know, 50 memoirs by now. Maybe you will. Point is, if you feel like someone understands you and is a stabling factor in your life, really give this person a chance.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

If I'm going on what you sell.

[Guest]

Told me I want to. She's the one that's wary, but because I. I do live a bit of a crazy life.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

A lot of people find that hard to. To live with. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Well, then. Then I would say, even though it's difficult.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Find a way to, like, bend that a little bit. She won't want you to be. Not you. Right. That's a little fun.

[Guest]

Spider. Sorry. Sorry. I really hate spiders.

[Interviewer]

I really hate spiders. That's a hold of you. So I've heard that sound before. That's like eight spiders. Mad. Anyway, what we're saying. Listen, I can get it if you're her. Just from what you've told me already, I get it. Like, you know, like, you know, she walks to your bedroom. There's a fucking festival in there.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Guest]

She'll be like, what the fuck?

[Interviewer]

And. And it's worth you considering or even asking her, what actually could I do for you to kind of bend things a little bit and how I do stuff that would. Would fit you, and it's worth you moving a Little bit for that stability. It will be worth it in the long run, big time.

[Guest]

I think I need.

[Interviewer]

If that means giving up this, giving up this. It will be worth so much if you found someone who gives you a stability. And what I've learned from you already is like, you need that.

[Guest]

I need stability in my life.

[Interviewer]

If you do not have that. I feel like if these could go south fairly quickly.

[Guest]

Yeah, yeah.

[Interviewer]

Or at least have the possibility. Right.

[Guest]

I agree.

[Interviewer]

So I would ask her and say, what could I do? Do you think that would make a difference? And work with that, see what she says. And I would just consider doing it.

[Guest]

Yeah. It is part of the reason why I quit my job, because it's very hard, because she's part of the friendship group of the pub. And then she sees a lovely, caring side of me where I'm like, I'll do everything, anything for her when it's us. But then when I'm at work, I get really stressed out and it's affecting my. My relationships and. And who I am. I feel like I got so disconnected from me that it was shifting who I was and I was losing connection with morally who I am as a person. And then we're saying about addiction working in a pub. I'll be frankly honest with you. You do do a lot of cocaine. You do drink a lot of alcohol. And you do that. And then you're like, it's terrible. It's a horrible, horrible thing to get into the pattern of. But it's so easy just to fall into. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I can say this really, totally for sure. If I hadn't met. Who went on to become the mother of my children. I met her when I was 24. How old are you now?

[Guest]

23.

[Interviewer]

So pretty similar. If I hadn't met her and we hadn't got together and fallen in love and all that kind of stuff, I can guarantee you that I wouldn't have been. I don't know, I mean, basically, I maybe wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now. I wouldn't be success. I wouldn't be. I would. Basically, I. I think that romance, it was the foundation of doing well. It was a foundation of, like, feeling good about yourself, of feeling confident, of feeling stable. To then go and do really good stuff and having something to work for as well.

[Guest]

Like having someone there that isn't family, who has your corner.

[Interviewer]

Exactly. And so, like, for me to have that person was absolutely critical that. I mean, basically I can track myself starting to do well from that moment. And so that's why I always think it's worth it. You know, if everything is there, good chemistry, getting on, understanding each other, respecting each other, all those things, if that's there, that should be something that that's worked on and towards and taken incredibly seriously. It's worth working on it.

[Guest]

I wish she would hear that in

[Interviewer]

a weird way or just play it out to her.

[Guest]

Yeah. Oh yeah.

[Interviewer]

Why do you wish she would hear that from me but not from you? What do you mean?

[Guest]

Because I think it will come from a different place when it's said to you, not from someone that they have a underlying demeanor from it or trying to force them into something that they're not completely convinced with. When you're in the moment, you're living it, you're not really thinking about it until it's gone. I'm still young, but I feel like all the traumas happened to me has made me a lot more mature for my age. And I don't feel 23. But also the way our relationship started, it just went from like 0 to 100. So I had a crush on her for like two years. Yeah, she was like a year and a half. She came in the pub, I was in a relationship. She would walk past the bar, walk back, turn around, look at, just look with a cheeky little grin. Oh, it made me crumble with my partner. We had like a lock in one night and then we ended up speaking for like six hours, just proper so nice and wind up spending like three months together. And then she went traveling and then she was like, oh, I'm a bit unsure about this. Came back. And then it kind of just like started off again. It is like we're in a relationship. But then she's got this gut feeling that something came right and that's a hard thing for me as well. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

But I think just, I think you've got to try and figure out what that is and try and get her to communicate what that might be.

[Guest]

But then I've had like two two year relationships and both of them have ended because of the same thing of I want to do so much with my life, work wise. What I do, like my dreams, aspirations of doing like doing social media, modeling, content, photography as a hobby, bar work, travel, all this fucking shit. The business people just are like, oh, this is way too much for me. But I'm like, for me I'm just trying to build something. But I'm like, why can I never find, find that thing that works? It never seems to pan out for me. Truthfully my life has gone to, like.

[Interviewer]

I honestly believe you. You'll build lots of stuff. I honestly think you won't be able to build something truly beautiful without that solid foundation. Yeah, you're gonna need that.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So if I'm you, honestly, I would put a relationship. Forgetting her now for now. This could be anybody in the future. Future. Because this stuff's probably going to get done anyway. You're going to do lots of stuff. You might not be able to do, you know, 20 things. You might be able to do kind of five instead. But the point is, those five will be done way better. Way better than those 20. Kind of like, you know, radically. Exactly.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

I would, if I was you. Now, put a potential relationship at the forefront, above anything else and actually really work and think, how am I going to be a person that someone wants to date with? Because otherwise the same thing we'll keep repeating. It's already happened twice, it sounds like,

[Guest]

but they were both toxic. Toxic relationships. I understand what you mean in that sense.

[Interviewer]

So I think, you know, this is a pivot.

[Guest]

I feel like I'm at a really big, pivotal point in my life. Like, so much is changing. Even this, even sitting down, having a conversation with you. It's all part of this weird fucking journey that life has to offer you. Like the word, words of wisdom and advice you've given me. I will reflect on that. This could be a conversation that completely changes the way that I think, because when you hear it from other people, especially from a stranger, it resonates with you more because you're like, you don't know me from Adam. You've got no. No underlying demeanor. Nothing apart from actually giving some. Some advice. And that will sit with me more than someone I've known for six years trying to tell me to do something. Yeah. Maybe I should listen, because if you're able to witness it, then it's not just me. It's not just them. So. Yeah. Thank you.

[Interviewer]

Well, thank you for being, you know, open and sharing and very open book. Yeah. I spoil this now. The famous. The famous open book.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Guest]

I don't know. This really made me think about stuff. Yeah. I don't know. Doing this is the equivalent of writing in a diary.

[Interviewer]

Two things at the top of my head.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

One, I want to ask you about modeling because as I said, first model, I think had on a bench.

[Guest]

Yeah. Horrible industry.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Horrible, Horrible. Horrible industry insanity.

[Interviewer]

Tell me more.

[Guest]

There's an image connected to models. There's a standard set upon you by your agent, by these Companies that you have to. You fit this image. Like, I'm not allowed to get tattoos without approval. I'm not. I'm not meant to smoke in public. I'm not meant to drink in public. Put anything.

[Interviewer]

When you say in public, what, in

[Guest]

case someone in social. Like, if you go out and you get absolutely hammered and someone starts posting it, you could lose your contract.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And it's also. You've got to be toned and it's got to be this, you've got to be that. And it's like, I hate that because it sets an image onto society of that. That's the level that you're meant to look. To look like this. Completely glammed up. Fucking four hours of makeup and hair before you go on camera. That's what the standard of beauty is. But it's like, it's not. It's not like,

[Interviewer]

why did you do it? I'm guessing you must. You might have known some of this stuff. You've just told me.

[Guest]

I've done it because I say yes to everything. It was. I was very insecure about it.

[Interviewer]

How did it happen to you? Were they.

[Guest]

I was walking down Tottenham Court Road, got scouted by this guy. Yeah. And then you get put on the website and then you just start. You start getting sent to bookings like Carstens. The first one I had was a Louis Vuitton show. So. And I told. So I got signed two weeks before the car crash. Had the car crash. I told my agent. I was like, yeah, look, I'm fucked. He pushed me for jobs and they tarnished my name a bit. Because the way it works is, like, a lot of the big companies are still same casting directors that you pick up on names and faces you see. And then once you get a thing of, you don't turn up to casting, then you kind of just get thrown to the back of the pile. And that happened quite a bit and it really tarnished my name. Then I signed to another agency and then was with them for a year. We done some cool stuff. And then it just got like. I felt like they wanted too much for me to keep a physique that wasn't healthy for me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And it's like, again, it's even within the industry, as everyone says, there's a lot of cocaine, a lot of cocaine involved. So I don't know why I'm whispering. There's a lot of cocaine involved in it. Like, a lot.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

You're at these shows, you sat around like, you know, if you're doing A photo shoot. You can sit around for some of these for like six, seven hours and you're only doing an hour's work. Then there's also, you don't eat. Don't eat on it. So if you're doing like a show, like a catwalk, if you eat, you're gonna be bloated. You don't want that. You want your abs fucking toned as fuck. So then you don't end up eating for the day. You do a bit of coke, you don't really have an appetite and you go out, you go out after drinking and you end up just doing drugs. You get really fucked up and then you're just constantly doing it and everyone's like, yeah, yeah, fuck it. It, fuck it. It's a crazy, it's crazy. Like if I shave my hair, like em agency want me to shave all my hair off because they can't work with curly hair. It's unmanageable. Done it once, worst decision ever made, never again. So that's also the hard part of it. It's all for them. How much money can you make me? It takes away you as a person.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Guest]

You just get treated for, for a shell.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Guest]

And it's just, it's just degrading. Degrading as like I hate not selling it. No, no, no, no, Honest. I mean I love, I love it because of money, but I hate, I hate the actual industry. When you think about, so would you

[Interviewer]

like not to be doing it or you like the money? The money's too good.

[Guest]

The money's good. And it's some of the, some of the experiences I've had for it. I loved, like, I'm not, I'm not saying that I'm like, hate it. Like I love it, it's a great thing to do. But also I just, I see there's a lot of like negative parts to it as well.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Guest]

So many people want to get into the industry, I feel, and not want to do it, but like I don't think it's worth the mental it puts on you.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What's your catwalk walk like when you

[Guest]

go to these castings? Oh, it's so fucking embarrassing. You walk into a room 50 to 100 somewhat similar looking people and you got to walk in thinking you're the shit. Because the second you show any fear, you're fucked. You walk in and you're standing there in a line, get through the line. You hand them your comp card. Like your pictures, your height, your name, eye color, all this. And Then they normally ask you to walk to the end of the room, walk back, that's it. And they're like, okay, thank you very much. We'll be in contact. And you're shitting yourself. You wait a couple days and you even get an email going, oh, yeah, you've been booked for so and so's job or no. Or like something you won't even hear back. And you're like, well, okay, thank you. And it's like you just. You just feel like a piece of meat. You've got to be able to show all the emotions. But one thing I love, one thing I've loved with modeling is there's four angles on photos. You either look there, look at the different corners of the room.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

You never look straight down the lens, just above or just below. When you look directly in the lens, it looks a bit. Bit odd. Yeah. And it's just like all the poses, man, the hands in the pockets, the wrists, you know, you've got the blood, pain with the watch, the jewelry. You just allegedly, like, you go and, like, stand in front of a camera. It's just. You hear the change, the pose, play with a button, move it, the belt, pocket, arm. And you're just like, wow. But. But in my head when I'm doing it, I'm like, these must look absolutely terrible. Yeah, like, so, so bad. And also the amount of money you spend on moisturizers. Right. Honestly, moisturizers and haircuts are the two most expensive things I think I've spent money on over the years.

[Interviewer]

Oh, well, you know, I was thinking about being a model until you said all that put off. I'm gonna ask you two more questions. Hit me and then I'll ask you the final question everyone gets.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

These last two. One is, I'm intrigued about your dad.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

He was clearly omitted from the mother and sister cash.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Whack down. And I'm like, wondering why he's not in that club.

[Guest]

Like, my dad had a lot of stuff, a lot of trauma through his life and wasn't the best towards me and my older sister as. As kids. And the best quote I've ever. I've ever come out with.

[Interviewer]

This is from you.

[Guest]

From me, Right.

[Interviewer]

This is your own quote.

[Guest]

My own quote. A couple. A couple years ago, I said to my ex, I went, my dad's shown me more how not to be as a man than how to be as a man. There's certain parts of the about me that I love that I know I've got from him.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

But there's also so much about him that I would hate to ever be like to other people.

[Companion]

Sure.

[Guest]

Or to my kids. Like he would run away from confrontation like, like with my mum and avoid. I'll never just walk away. I'll always stand and be like no, this is why I feel how I feel and this is. These are the reasons.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

But yeah he hasn't really been there for me through. Throughout my life. But it wasn't like, like truthfully we kicked like me, my older sister kicked him out when I was 10. She was 13. Told him to leave the house and leave our family house.

[Interviewer]

Because you kicked him out.

[Guest]

Me and my sister said to my mum he's got to go and yeah, we still, we still see him now and again but again he had a lot going on in his, in his head and his life that he felt very hard done by and, and stuff and then tries to push that wisdom onto to you where it's not useful wisdom in my opinion. He is an inspiration for me to want to make that like my two sisters and my mum, they're the ones that I care about dearly and they've helped me so much. I want you to be able to do what you want with your life.

[Interviewer]

Oh yeah. I mean I think also worth remembering it's such a noble aim to want to help these people and look out for them but also like they're no good if you're not good.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

You know you've got to come first. Your well being has got to be center before you can go and help them. Do you see what I mean?

[Guest]

Yeah, I, I struggle with that a lot. Where I will always put other people before myself. Even if it means I've run myself completely in the ground. I'll still do it.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Have you done therapy by the way?

[Guest]

Tried. Don't do well with them. I struggle to pay someone to listen for sure.

[Interviewer]

I get that. I get that.

[Guest]

Doesn't sit well with me.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. It's beautiful light now.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

When I arrived it's a bit overcast and it's gone.

[Guest]

Yeah, it's gone a fucking beautiful.

[Interviewer]

It's all clear.

[Guest]

That's the type of clouds if not a cloud's like that in the morning.

[Interviewer]

Just you know what that cloud looks like. That's like someone with their arms open wanting to give you a hug.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Or us.

[Guest]

I see a little, little love heart in the middle a little bit.

[Interviewer]

It's a heart and a hug out there.

[Companion]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

What am I saying? So I've lost My train of thought, I was going to say. Yeah, therapy. Look, I personally have issue with exactly as you say, paying someone. There's a lot of things I don't like about that. You're totally right to be a bit suspicious of it sometimes. I get that. But when someone has a lot of big traumatic life events and not just one many, and they have it interweaving, interlocking, they have all kinds of different branches from them that you work out as a lot. And then also you just said about your dad and how he suffered a lot of trauma. Remember, trauma doesn't stop at your dad.

[Companion]

Right.

[Interviewer]

So trauma keeps going through generations unless it is processed. And sadly, if you are a parent, he would have radiated a lot of those negative things that will be in you and that's not your fault, that's just what has happened. And I'm not saying it's all in you, but it will be some.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And that's also really worth talking to someone about and seeing if you can find someone. If you find the right one, it could be hugely beneficial to you. That's, you know, and probably worth pursuing, you know, no one's going to sort out for you.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Companion]

Right.

[Interviewer]

So unfortunately, that's life, isn't it? These things are given to us. We have no choice. Even though they're given to us, we have to deal with them.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And again, it's worth it because of all these people you could help.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

In the future. Two magpies.

[Guest]

Hello.

[Interviewer]

Good luck.

[Companion]

Three.

[Guest]

Come on.

[Interviewer]

Three for a girl.

[Guest]

There we go. Hopefully. Hopefully soon. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Beautiful timing. Yeah, definitely consider it. Have a good think.

[Guest]

No, people said it'll be worth it.

[Interviewer]

You've got a lot to. You've got a lot to unpack there. You've got a lot to think about.

[Guest]

I think. I think it would also. It would do me the world of good. But how? It's not even claustrophobia, but it's like when you're just sat in a room with something.

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

You're just kind of looking at the walls and you're like, oh, no, for sure.

[Interviewer]

You could get. You can walk around. There are people you walk around with.

[Guest]

Oh, can you?

[Interviewer]

Yeah.

[Guest]

Okay.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, There you go.

[Guest]

That actually might be. Because that's always my thing, you know,

[Interviewer]

you do what fits works. There are people who walk around.

[Guest]

Okay. That is definitely time. I think I'm going to look at, like a lot. Yeah. A lot of people recently have told me that you most probably would benefit a lot from it. And I feel like I'm in a different place than I was four years ago when I last done it. So, yeah, there's definitely. I think it's something I will look into. And we're going to add. We're going to add the therapist onto the list. Not a bucket list. We're going to add it onto the list.

[Interviewer]

That's such a funny it. I want to get a therapist.

[Guest]

It It. No, honestly. But that's the way I've got to do it.

[Interviewer]

Get onto that list. Do it.

[Guest]

Yeah. Okay, wait, let's actually add it. Let's add it.

[Companion]

Yes.

[Interviewer]

Put it in the.

[Guest]

Let's make a new list.

[Interviewer]

It's just going in it.

[Guest]

Bliss. Therapist walking. I will know what it means.

[Interviewer]

Okay. I'm gonna get you to do one more thing.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Companion]

Before we.

[Interviewer]

Our last question. So I'm gonna. I'm gonna close my eyes. You decide whether you want to close your eyes or not. I recommend it.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

Think of a scene from the past. A scene which you can remember in really vivid detail.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And it doesn't have to be a dramatic one. I just want something that comes to you. Like the first thing that came to you. Wonderful. Can you describe that scene to me, please?

[Guest]

My nan and grandad's house. When I was younger, we used to go around every Sunday. It was the same house that my mum grew up in. Walk in, you've got like one of the old. The old telephones with the. That you wind the numbers up like just as you went in. And then sat in the living room playing a card game called Donkey. Like I'm sat on the floor. My older sister next to me, my cousin, my granddad in a big armchair and my nan on the sofa to the left. I remember sitting there and card game of Donkey is. It's like kind of bluff. You're gonna pick a card off the person next to you, you match the pairs and whoever ends with a donkey is a loser. My granddad done it to me and just him just laughing his face off and then me losing the game. And it was one of those kind of like wholesome moments for me where such a fun memory of them. But I love my nan and granddad and like they're the ones that I aspire to be like in the energy wise. And my happiest memories of my childhood are them. They're the moments I cherish. And I close my eyes, I can see that living room. Don't know why the card game is a thing that I envision, but that, that's. It's just Like, I could just picture the smile. Yeah, that's lovely. The smile and the laugh of everyone

[Interviewer]

around and it's a kind of what it sounds like, at least like a really safe room.

[Guest]

Yeah. Loving. I think. I think that that's the biggest part. There was an unconditional love and pure. A pure loving care for each other in that room. Just. You could feel it.

[Interviewer]

Well, there we go. Thanks so much for talking to me.

[Guest]

It's been a fucking pleasure. Thank you for listening to me ramble. It's been nice sharing stuff with you especially. I needed that now, with everything that's going on in my life presently, I needed a moment for me to look back and see what I've actually done. It's nice to look back and be like, no, I have done well. I have achieved shit.

[Interviewer]

You have have.

[Guest]

It's been so. Thank you. I really appreciate it. Oh, thank you. It's been lovely.

[Interviewer]

Oh, it's so sweet. Thank you. Yeah, you're gonna do great stuff.

[Guest]

I think it's great.

[Interviewer]

You know, it's in you. You just gotta just make sure you just look after yourself first. The stuff will take care of itself, you know, and just. And just go easy with yourself. Just, you know, all this stuff will happen. It doesn't have to happen tomorrow. It will come eventually.

[Guest]

Yeah, that's true.

[Interviewer]

Okay, so we've reached the last question. You can either answer this in a kind of now way or a general way, or both. What are you going to do next?

[Guest]

Oh, I think I'm really gonna reflect on some stuff. This conversation, I think, has made me realize some stuff that I've kind of pushed to the back and not really realized has impacted me so much when it has. As you said, builder builds a foundation strong rather than continuing on a weak foundation and trying to build something that isn't actually going to be beneficial. And then currently, today, I really don't know, might take myself out for dinner. That actually might be my plan. Go out for dinner. Go for a nice meal. Pizza and a glass of wine. I'm writing my diary about this conversation.

[Interviewer]

Yeah, I just. I really wish you so much luck.

[Guest]

Thank you. Same. Same to you. I wish. I wish you. I honestly, I want to listen to. I want to listen to your podcast.

[Interviewer]

Oh, you're sweet.

[Guest]

Because it'd be nice to hear people's stories, their ups, their downs, all of it.

[Interviewer]

Sure. Well, there's plenty of them.

[Guest]

Yeah, we will.

[Interviewer]

It's called Strangers on a Bench.

[Guest]

Oh, yeah. There we go. A fight. Episode one. I love that.

[Interviewer]

That'll be a real meta moment. You start listening to the podcast on the podcast you're on.

[Guest]

Yeah. You're like three weird crossover episode. You're like, exactly. What's going on?

[Interviewer]

I'm going to ask us to do one thing before I press the button, which is. I think it's quite nice at the end of episodes, especially when lots of grounds been covered. Lots of stuff. A kind of a minute where we just hear what's around us and just the nature of what's around us without us talking.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

So I'm going to propose to us. And minutes silence.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Interviewer]

In honor of just the conversation of nature around us and what happens. Are you ready for a minute of silence?

[Guest]

Minute silence.

[Interviewer]

Yeah. Here we go.

[Guest]

It. It's lovely enjoying nature. It's like a night. A night. A nice way to kind of like close the book.

[Interviewer]

It is, isn't it?

[Guest]

That's that. That's the way I'd describe. It's like that final. You close the hard cover. Bang. You're like, wow. Yeah.

[Interviewer]

And then we just see someone shouting, perfect. That's what I needed. That's the way to close the book.

[Guest]

Yeah.

[Companion]

And if you. Before you crawl, if you roll? Before you crawl? If you, before you crawl? You might fall, you might fall? You might fall, you might fall? And if your wheels just spin too fast? If your wheels just spin too fast? If your wheels just spin too fast? You might crash, you might crash, you might crash, you might crash, you might crash, you might crash? If you fall on your first try and if you fall on your second try? If you fall on your third? Never say die. Never say die. Never say die. Never say die. Never say die. Never say die. Never say that.

[Guest]

Get lots of leaves. No.