Our Favorite Things, 2025

Summary

Strict Scrutiny – “Our Favorite Things, 2025”

Dec 22, 2025 | Hosted by Leah Litman, Kate Shaw, Melissa Murray | Guest: Ellen Weintraub

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Episode Overview

Strict Scrutiny’s annual “Favorite Things” episode returns, blending Supreme Court analysis and legal culture with irreverent gift ideas, personal recommendations, and a cathartic look back at a tumultuous year. Hosts Leah Litman, Kate Shaw, and Melissa Murray—joined by intern Jordan Thomas and special guest Ellen Weintraub (former FEC commissioner)—swap their favorite wants, needs, reads, and wears, and reflect on 2025’s legal and political chaos with humor and solidarity. The episode ends with a sobering yet hopeful discussion about court decisions threatening agency independence and campaign finance regulation.

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The “Favorite Things” Roundtable

[03:34] Structure of the Favorites Exchange

• Categories: Something you want, need, wear, and read.
• Tone: Fun, irreverent, often court-related banter.
• Guest: Jordan Thomas joins the pod on-mic for the first time as “one of our favorite things.”

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1. Something You Want

[05:10 – 11:32]

Leah Littman

• Cozy Earth Cuddle Bubble Blanket: “My dog and I fight over it. Seriously, Cozy Earth, if you’re listening—Stevie should be a model for you.” [05:20]
• Jones Road Tinted Moisturizer: “Feels more like moisturizer and not oily. I just love it.” [05:41]

Kate Shaw

• Aventura Electric Scooter: “Think Vespa, but off brand … fully electric. It’s kind of an amazing way to get around NYC.” [06:06]
• ‘Grüns’ Gummy Vitamins: “You get to eat a lot of vitamins in the form of gummy bears daily.” [07:11]
  • Fun moment: Melissa recounts suffering a headache post-gummy, joking about being “pushed” to try them. “She pushed them on me so hard, I thought it was Molly or something.” – Melissa [08:28]

Melissa Murray

• True Botanicals Skincare: “Low-key sure this is what is keeping Samuel Alito looking fresh faced. Or maybe it’s just hate.” [09:20]
• e.l.f. Liquid Camo Blush: “Looks like a really natural flush, like you were just embarrassed. Highly recommend.” [10:18]
• Cozy Earth Blanket: Supports Leah’s pick; her dog, Cole, also fights for it.

Jordan Thomas

• Tea Tree Leave-In Conditioner (for his afro): “Keeps it shining and healthy. For those with long, curly hair—it’s great.”
• Pink Moisturizer: “I have an afro. The only people I’d take hair advice from are Jordan Thomas and Lisa Barlo.” – Leah [11:13]
• Melissa recommends Curlmix for curly hair.

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2. Something You Need

[11:33 – 21:56]

Leah Littman

• Peloton App Stretching Classes: “Peloton’s evening stretch classes with Maddie Maggiacomo are so helpful … help me relax and fall asleep.” [11:33]
• FarmHounds Dog Treats & Badlands Ranch Food: “My dog is obsessed.” [12:12]

Kate Shaw

• Personalized Bobblehead (gift from Leah): “On my shelf with John Paul Stevens, Souter, Obama, and now myself. That’s the Court I dream about.” [12:52]
• Lily Allen Tickets & Leah Littman Custom T-Shirts: “Strictrudi all along,” limited edition at live shows. [14:46]

Melissa Murray

• Caddis Readers: “Macular degeneration is real … got fashionable, progressive readers so I can read again.” [16:30]
• Blackwing Matte Pencils: “It’s like a really soft lead. I love writing with these pencils.” [17:30]
• As Ever Rosé (Meghan Markle’s wine): “Surprisingly good wine you can buy on the Internet.” [18:33]

Jordan Thomas

• Concert Tickets: “Evanescence just announced a new tour! Also Sleep Token, Spirit Box, Korn—the next year will be amazing for live shows.” [19:00]
  • Debate over whether Evanescence is “hard rock” spawns playful generational banter among hosts.
• Marathon Behind-the-Head Headphones: “For those with big hair—these don’t mess up your ‘do. I badly need a new pair.” [21:32]

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3. Something to Wear

[21:56 – 29:30]

Leah Littman

• Forme Posture Bra (as worn by Taylor Swift): “Helps my back and posture, really relieves back pain.” [21:56]
• Argent Workwear: “Fun, bright, makes work dressing enjoyable.” [22:46]
• The RealReal Outlet: “Great for secondhand finds.”
• “Anything Melissa recommends, I buy and end up loving. She is my worst enabler.” [22:57]

Melissa Murray

• Quince Yak Wool Sweater: “Was a skeptic, but it’s so soft and durable. Don’t sleep on it.” [24:07]
• Uniqlo White Tee: “Great close collar, very affordable.”
• Clearly Collective Collegiate Scarves: “If you’re an alum, there’s a scarf in your school’s colors.”
• Way Soft Cashmere Beanie (Amazon): “Oversized, doesn’t mess up my pixie cut.”

Kate Shaw

• Leah Littman-designed merch & onesies: “Half the shirts I wear are designed by Leah.” [26:37]
• Cozy Earth Wide-Leg Pants: “So soft and comfortable, I wear them everywhere—even out of the house.”

Jordan Thomas

• Strict Scrutiny & Crooked gear: "It’s basically all I wear these days. Also want Crooked gear from CrookedCon." [28:12]
• Mavi Jeans: “Love dark wash jeans, they fit great.” [28:32]
• Hosts poke fun at Jordan’s “old soul”/90s taste; Jordan jokes: “Basically, I’m a 50-year-old woman.” [30:04]

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4. Something to Read

[31:11 – 42:20]

Leah Littman (recommends fiction only)

• Wedding People (Alison Espach), Julianne Long’s Pennyroyal Green series, Lisa Kleypas’ Wallflower series, Sarah MacLean’s Summer Storms, V.E. Schwab’s Bury My Bones in the Midnight Soil, Liz Moore’s God of the Woods
• Book of the Month club.
• Bonus: “Conservative justices on the Wisconsin Supreme Court are writing ‘fiction’—hallucinating Supreme Court quotes.”
  • Quote: “The majority nevertheless entertains yet another kick at the redistricting cat. Unlike Schrödinger’s cat, this one most assuredly has been dead for years. I dissent.” – Justice Rebecca Bradley [32:41]

Kate Shaw

• Nonfiction:
  • The Power Broker (Robert Caro) – “It’s amazing. Just so fucking long.” [33:47]
  • Who Is Government? (Michael Lewis), Character Limit (Kate Conger & Ryan Mack), The Radical Fund (John Witt; guest on show).
• Fiction:
  • Isola (Allegra Goodman), Heart the Lover (Lily King), Martyr (Kaveh Akbar), The History of Sound (Ben Shattuck): “I’m not a short story fan, but I adored every one in this collection.” [34:51]

Melissa Murray

• Nonfiction:

  • Matriarch (Tina Knowles) – “Not just a Destiny’s Child confessional; serious Black history.”
  • Black and Blues (Imani Perry): “A wonderful meditation on the blues, color, and identity.” [34:51]
  • Jane Austen’s Bookshelf (Rebecca Romney): “All the books Jane Austen and her sister used to read ... that’s my energy.” [35:44]

• Fiction:

  • Atmosphere (Taylor Jenkins Reid): “Takes place in the 1980s, just as the space shuttle program starts.”
  • The Book Club for Troublesome Women (Marie Bostwick): “Thought it was about us, but it wasn’t. Enjoyed it anyway.”
  • The Loneliness of Sonia and Sunny (Karan Desai): “Shortlisted for the Booker Prize. I think it should have won.” [37:15]

Jordan Thomas

• Top pick: Lawless by Leah Littman – “Funny, accessible, brings my parents up to speed on the Court … pop culture and law perfectly blended.” [38:01]
• Others:
  • The Sirens Call (Chris Hayes) – “Phenomenal mix of digital culture and law.”
  • Bad Law (Elie Mystal): “If you liked Allow Me to Retort, this is a follow-on, and it’s very funny.”
  • Charles Sumner: Conscience of a Nation (Zakir Tammis): “A wonderful new look at an overlooked figure of Reconstruction.”
  • Children’s: Just Shine (Sonia Sotomayor): “Her latest children’s book teaching empathy and brilliance.”

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Year-in-Review & Goals for 2026

Highlights

[44:32 – 49:26]

• Live shows and CrookedCon were major highlights for all, with shoutouts to the energetic, supportive audiences (“I loved meeting all of you.” – Leah Littman [44:32]), and the Argent team for live show wardrobe.
• Personal highlights: Sarah, Leah’s dog, Cole’s “jingle bombing,” meeting hosts’ and Jordan’s parents in person.
• Backstage shenanigans: Learning definitions (“‘Just the tip’—we’re all here to learn and it’s fine.” – Melissa [46:34])
• Kate: Pride in government workers and students who attended live shows; “ enormous relief and comfort” in working with the podcast team during dark times.
• Jordan: “Top highlight—working with the show” as intern; graduating law/business school: “Once I submit my last exam on December 22, I will forever be done with being a student.”

Goals & Hopes for 2026

[50:35 – 54:38]

• Leah: “I want to review Sam Alito’s book.” “I want to read uncensored versions of Elena Kagan’s dissents.” “If there’s a CrookedCon next year, I hope it feels as energizing as this year.”
• Kate: Wants Justice Kagan to “write a fiction book—not a legal memoir. She’d slay in that genre.”
• Melissa (sober mood): “My goal is literally just surviving this craptastic administration. As a person of color, it’s become harder to imagine you’re insulated from the crap they’re doing ... it feels really unsafe and that lack of safety feels uncertain.” [51:40]
• Jordan: “More resistance, more energy … the chaos and exhaustion is the point, but we have to keep raising our voices.” Praises lower-court judges (“bulwarks of constitutionalism”). Highlights Judge William Young’s opinion upholding free speech for detained non-citizens: “Alone, all I have is my sense of duty, but together … we have the Constitution.” [54:38]

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SCOTUS Year-End Review: SCOTUS vs. Agencies & Campaign Finance

Special Guest: Ellen Weintraub
[57:49 – 73:38]

• Regret and Alarm:

  • Ellen: “It was not a particularly uplifting week for me.” The Slaughter and NRSC arguments are “about the power of big money in our government and whether government will take real steps to push back.” [58:40]
  • “Yes, agencies are supposed to counterbalance billion dollar industries—that’s the point!”

• Campaign Finance Realities:

  • “The Justices ... don’t know much about how campaign finance works,” noting their belief that large donations circumventing limits are “speculative” is just untrue. “It is completely untethered to reality.” [61:37]

• Agency Decapitation:

  • “It’s a death by decapitation of various agencies, including the FEC ... down to two commissioners, no quorum … If the President can just fire people willy-nilly, the agency can’t enforce, can’t interpret, can’t do its jobs.” [67:48]
  • “All of the Republican commissioners left this year. One joined the administration, one went private, one ran for Congress, then I was fired.”

• Firing Story:

  • “I got an email: ‘You are removed, effective immediately. Thank you for your service.’ The letter was dated a week earlier and CC’d to staff. They deactivated my badge, email, databases immediately.” [67:28]

• Broader Implications:

  • “Unfettered presidential control over independent agencies will mean a loss of expertise and independence. Why would anyone build a career in public service if there’s no job security?” [64:56]
  • Melissa: “The point about dismantling by decapitation … they’re not going to enforce the law because there’s not even going to be an FEC.” [70:20]

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Ellen Weintraub’s Favorite Things (Rec Lists)

[71:47 – 73:41]

• For Leah:
  • Veronica Speedwell series (Deanna Raybourn) – “Just very diverting.”
  • Benjamin Stevenson’s Everyone in My Family Has Killed Someone
  • Latest Louise Penny – The Black Wolf
  • Judi Dench memoir – The Man Who Pays the Rent (audio)
  • Neil Williams – This is Happiness
  • Anything by Amor Towles, Elizabeth Strout
• Recommendation: “Get out in the fresh air—went on a safari with my daughter, very special.” [73:10]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “He pushed them on me so hard, I thought it was Molly or something.” – Melissa on Kate giving her gummy vitamins [08:28]
• “All I have is my sense of duty; together we have the Constitution.” – Quoting Judge William Young [54:24]
• “Cozy Earth, if you're listening—Stevie should be a model for you.” – Leah [05:22]
• “My goal is literally just surviving this craptastic administration.” – Melissa [51:40]
• “The Justices ... don’t know much about how campaign finance works ... It is completely untethered to reality.” – Ellen Weintraub [61:37]

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• [03:34] – Roundtable format explained/Introductions
• [05:10] – “Something You Want” segment (gifts, beauty, and cozy picks)
• [11:32] – “Something You Need” (gadgets, tickets, health and reading aids)
• [16:30] – Melissa’s practical needs: readers, pencils, Meghan Markle’s rosé
• [21:56] – “Something to Wear” (fashion, podcast merch, 90s nostalgia)
• [31:11] – “Something to Read” (fiction, nonfiction, infamous state court dissents)
• [44:32] – Year in review/highlights (CrookedCon, live shows, dog/cat chaos)
• [50:35] – Goals for 2026 (Kagan fiction wish, survival, resistance)
• [57:49] – Ellen Weintraub on SCOTUS, agency independence, and the FEC
• [71:47] – Ellen’s favorite things book recommendations

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Closing

The hosts preview 2026’s live shows in San Francisco (Mar 6) and LA (Mar 7), joke about defying dress codes (“we might do the whole show in our pajamas just to spite Sean Duffy” [74:31]), and remind listeners to get tickets on Crooked’s website.

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Summary Takeaways

• Irreverent, personal, insightful: The team keeps legal commentary relatable—and often hilarious—by framing it through the lens of gift guides, beauty/skincare, fashion choices, pet care, and self-care.
• Defiant optimism: Despite grim legal and political realities (especially for people of color and advocates of agency independence), the hosts and guests emphasize resistance, care for each other, and the continuing power of institutional and popular pushback.
• Insider expertise: The pod delivers both the joys of favorite socks and the consequences of agency decapitation with equal vigor.

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Recommended for: Supreme Court watchers, law students, and anyone who wants legal insight interspersed with book and blush recommendations, curly hair advice, and heartfelt community-building in hard times.

Transcript

[Melissa Murray]

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[Jordan Thomas]

Mr. Chief justice, please report. It's an old joke, but when I.

[Kate Shaw]

Argue, man argues against beautiful ladies like.

[Jordan Thomas]

This, they're going to have the last word.

[Melissa Murray]

She spoke not elegantly, but with unmistakable clarity. She said, I ask no favor for my sex. All I ask of our brethren is that they take Their feet off our necks.

[Kate Shaw]

Hello, and welcome back to Strict Scrutiny, your podcast about the Supreme Court and the legal culture that surrounds it. We are your hosts. I'm Kate Shaw.

[Leah Littman]

I'm Leah Littman.

[Melissa Murray]

And I'm Melissa Murray. And it's that time of the year again. Here at Strict Scrutiny, we have many traditions. One of them is talking about Sam Alito's skin and his purported skincare regime. Another is talking about Brett Kavanaugh's intellect and. And another is just generally calling the court out on its bs. But another tradition, which we always do in the festive season, is our Favorite things episode. It's just like Oprah's favorite things, only with lawless courts. It's amazing.

[Kate Shaw]

So if that sounds confusing, here is how it works. We just kind of go around with some gift giving and gift soliciting ideas, and then we also touch on a few of our other favorite things with kind of random banter. Some of it, but not all of it. SCOTUS related in the mix.

[Leah Littman]

And today, we are delighted to be joined by a special guest, someone who is usually behind the microphone scenes, not in front of one. That's right, it is our fantastic intern, Jordan Thomas. Welcome to the show, Jordan.

[Jordan Thomas]

Thank you for having me. This is super cool. Love to finally be able to contribute in a way that's not just behind the scenes. This is really wonderful.

[Melissa Murray]

Well, you've been contributing a lot behind the scenes. Jordan is truly the gift who keeps on giving.

[Kate Shaw]

He's here because he is one of our favorite things.

[Leah Littman]

Exactly. He's literally one of our favorite things.

[Melissa Murray]

Yes.

[Leah Littman]

So you can all follow along. The general categories that we talk about in the episode are something you want, something you need, something to wear, and something to read. Do want to note that this last category presumes you can read, Brett, So I'm not sure if we have any picture books to recommend.

[Melissa Murray]

Just Pride Puppy.

[Kate Shaw]

That is not on. I mean, maybe it should be. It was maligned in the oral argument of Mahmoud. Okay, we will then do a little bit of chit chatting about the last year and the next one. And for our final segment, we're going to be joined by returning guest and friend of the show, Ellen Weintraub, a former commissioner on the Federal Election Commission.

[Leah Littman]

Because some of our favorite things are what? Separation of powers, agency independence, and campaign finance regulation.

[Kate Shaw]

And our favorite things, our least favorite things are what the court is going to do to all of those ideas.

[Leah Littman]

Exactly. So let's start with something you want. I'll go first. This is something I Have. But you all should want the Cozy Earth Cuddle bubble blanket. It is surreal. It's like this, like, waffle texture that's super soft. My dog and I fight over it. Like, seriously Cozy Earth. If you're listening, Stevie should be a model for you. I have so many photos of her wrapped in this blanket. We are all obsessed.

[Kate Shaw]

It's a little heavy. You haven't said this. It has, like, almost a weighted quality to it.

[Melissa Murray]

Right?

[Leah Littman]

No, that's part of, like, the waffle thing that I meant to convey. Yeah. No, it's slightly heavier than your average blanket, but still soft. It's just excellent. And something else. So Jones Road, I know their, like, most famous product is the Miracle Balm. I love their tinted moisturizer. It's the only tinted moisturizer that feels more like moisturizer and less like foundation to me and, like, isn't oily, and I just love it.

[Kate Shaw]

So I'm also going to mention a couple of things that I have and that you might need. Okay. The first is an electric store scooter. So think Vespa, but kind of off brand. So there are now some Vespa competitors, and one of them is Aventura. And I don't mean to disparage it by calling it off brand. It's just not a, you know, like, Vespa is a pretty famous Italian company, so Aventura is an American company. They are making these electric scooters that look just like Vespas. Like, if you kind of like, squint, but the basic outline is the same. It is fully electric. So there is a big square battery that you just bring into your house and plug into a wall so you don't have to, like, go to a separate charging station. And it's not a hybrid. It's, like, purely electric. And the price point is for a scooter, like, way, way, way, way less than a Vespa. Some of them are, like, under 2 or $3,000. And this is like a, you know, baby motorcycle. This is like a thing that will transport you all around New York City, where I live. And it is actually amazing if you live in a place where you need to go like a mile or two or three with stuff, so you can't, like, walk fast or jog necessarily comfortably. And there just are not necessarily subway stations between point A and point B. I transport my older children to the stops on the scooter. And it's just kind of an amazing way to get around New York City. So wanted to shout out that company which has been great so far. And then very different is I was at my book club recently and like for some reason somebody asked for people's recommendations about the supplements they were taking and there was a lot of endorsement of gruns or gruns. I don't even know how you say it. Like superfood vitamins, which are these like little gummy bear packets with like nine gummy bears that you're supposed to take every day. So you get to eat a lot of vitamins in the form of gummy bears daily. I'm not totally sure, like I feel any health effects yet, but they are pretty delicious. And it's kind of awesome to be taking gummy bears for quasi medicinal purposes. So those might be something that you need too. Are either of you into the superfood like gruns vitamins yet? Leah, Melissa, Jordan, I assume you are not.

[Melissa Murray]

You made me take some on the road to.

[Leah Littman]

Oh, yeah.

[Melissa Murray]

I gave you a pass on the Amtrak.

[Kate Shaw]

What'd you think?

[Melissa Murray]

And then remember I had an amazing headache and was just like really totally effed up before our show. Do you remember that?

[Kate Shaw]

I think that I remember that. You attribute that to the vitamins.

[Melissa Murray]

I don't know. Should I try again? I mean, I don't wanna.

[Leah Littman]

Maybe not before a live show. I think I.

[Melissa Murray]

Well, I mean, Leah, she pushed them on me so hard. I thought like she was like it was Molly or something.

[Kate Shaw]

It was vitamins, Melissa.

[Leah Littman]

I was like, this sounds like Katie Heron entry in the burn book for Miss.

[Kate Shaw]

She was pleasure. I'm just saying.

[Melissa Murray]

A pusher. She's a pusher.

[Kate Shaw]

All right. You're not ready to endorse. I share them with our listeners.

[Melissa Murray]

I'm going to try again in 2026. I'm going to get my microbiome in check with your gruns. I'm going to get them.

[Kate Shaw]

Yeah.

[Melissa Murray]

Okay. All right. I am going to plus one, the Cozy Earth bubble blanket. I think Cozy Earth that you need to have Cole and Stevie together in a bishpu golden doodle cuddle off. Like I think something could happen there. I think it's going to be really cute. He loves the bubble blanket. He's actually fighting my son for it. They go back and forth and sometimes I see Cole kind of trying to drag it out of my son's room, but it's really heavy. So it's just very hard. But it's really cute to watch other things that I want. True Botanical Skincare. Love it all the time. I'm low key sure that this is what is keeping Samuel Alito looking so fresh faced? Or maybe it's just hate. I like to think it's true botanicals, but who knows? But here are some less expensive things. I think we should have a range of different price points here. And I know that true botanicals can be kind of pricey. Something that I've absolutely loved that is very accessible. E L F Liquid camo blush. Like, you can buy this at Amazon, you can buy it at CVS or Walgreens. It's a liquid blush and you just sort of tap, tap, tap it on your cheekbones and then blend and it looks like a really sort of natural flush like that. You were just embarrassed. It's fantastic. Highly recommend.

[Jordan Thomas]

Is it my turn?

[Leah Littman]

It is your turn.

[Kate Shaw]

Yes, your turn.

[Melissa Murray]

You better bring it, Jordan.

[Jordan Thomas]

Well, something that I want, I have very long hair. For those of you who are watching on YouTube or elsewhere, you can see I have a gigantic afro. So hair care is very important to me and I've recently started experimenting with different forms of hair care. As it gets longer, you know, I try to just see how I can keep it looking beautiful and voluminous. And somebody told me that tea tree leave in conditioner really keeps it shining and keeps it healthy and long. And so I'm definitely looking into the new tea tree brand of leave in conditioners. For those of you with long hair and curly hair, then I need to moisturize it after I get out the shower. And I love the pink moisturizer brand, but I'm running low. So things I want is I need an emergency supply of pink.

[Melissa Murray]

Pink moisturizer is seriously old school, Jordan. Like that was around when I was in high school.

[Jordan Thomas]

Hairstyle, I have an afro.

[Melissa Murray]

I mean, the only people I would.

[Leah Littman]

Take hair advice from are Jordan Thomas and Lisa Barlo. So these are endorsements that are worth having.

[Melissa Murray]

I resent that, Melissa. Yeah, I resent that. I was going to say to you, Jordan, you should also try Curlmix, which is great for curly hair. Highly recommend.

[Jordan Thomas]

Thank you.

[Leah Littman]

So next category, something you need. So I was going to recommend the Peloton app stretching classes. I have basically had problems sleeping since. I don't know, November 2024, December 2024. Not sure why, but that's when my insomnia kicked in and I found that Peloton's evening stretch classes, specifically with Maddie Magiacomo. They, I love them. They're so helpful, like hip openers, really help me relax and like fall asleep. So definitely recommend that something you need for the perfect puppy in your life are farmhounds, dog treats, and Badlands ranch food. My dog is obsessed.

[Kate Shaw]

Okay. So I am. Was debating whether to put this in the want or need category, but I decided need. And the thing that I want to put in the. At the top of my need list is a personal, personalized bobblehead. So is this a moment when I can pull out the personalized bobblehead?

[Leah Littman]

It's allowed.

[Kate Shaw]

All right, so Leah Lippman is the genius behind this personalized bobblehead. Melissa, you've got yours. Jordan, you're at the law school right now. So we didn't. We didn't tell you to bring the prop. So we will have to post pictures, like, stills of all these.

[Melissa Murray]

We'll have to Photoshop it, but yeah.

[Kate Shaw]

So this is my personalized bobblehead, which is on my shelf. It's joining my bobbleheads right now are John Paul Stevens, David Souter, Barack Obama, and now myself, which I think is a collection I'm pretty happy about.

[Melissa Murray]

That's the court we've been dreaming of.

[Leah Littman]

Exactly.

[Kate Shaw]

Exactly. We need a fifth vote, though, guys. There's four. That's terrible. My Melissa.

[Jordan Thomas]

Okay.

[Kate Shaw]

Yes, I'm right here.

[Jordan Thomas]

Okay.

[Kate Shaw]

I'm putting that on my bookshelf. Yes, that's right. So that's the court is you, me, John Paul Stevens.

[Melissa Murray]

Well, that sounds like this opportunity on.

[Kate Shaw]

Your part to not have a Melissa Murray bobblehead. Okay, so actually, that's right. The thing I need is now a bobblehead of my cousin co hosts, so I can actually have all of us behind me. All right, so that's what I'm gonna work on for next year. And actually, this is the office. I don't usually record in this room, but since I am in here, I'm gonna show you something else I have, which is actually my husband last year. No, no, no. Maybe three years ago, actually, for Christmas, got our whole family these little, like, action figure dolls made of ourselves. And it was like. It was. I think it was an artist actually. Now, it wasn't three years, probably four years ago, because it was like a kind of COVID creation. There was an artist. You know, people found all kinds of crazy ways to try to make money when everything was shut down. And so this artist, who I think is no longer doing this, was like, making these personalized action figures. And it will go well with my bobblehead. So you can also try to find somebody making those. Okay, quickly, a couple other things. Lily Allen tickets. We're going in New York. Leah, you're going to go in D.C. right?

[Leah Littman]

Oh, yeah, I'm going in D.C. i thought I was going in D.C. with at least one of you who said I couldn't go to New York. I could go to D.C. so I.

[Melissa Murray]

Get tickets and then it's like I said I couldn't.

[Leah Littman]

I can go to New York after all.

[Kate Shaw]

I said I couldn't go in D.C. but.

[Melissa Murray]

Are you looking at me? I did do that.

[Kate Shaw]

That was.

[Leah Littman]

Yeah, you did.

[Kate Shaw]

Luckily, you have friends in D.C. who I know will take those tickets.

[Melissa Murray]

I. I totally. For. Honestly, Lee, I forgot I did that. I can only blame param menopause.

[Leah Littman]

I just reminded you.

[Melissa Murray]

Okay, you did.

[Kate Shaw]

All right, last thing and then I'm gonna turn it over to Melissa. You need T shirts made by Leah Lippman. Limited edition T shirts like this one. Strixrudi all along. Can you even. Sorry, like, my hair is not. Oh, yeah, you can see it because Leah makes and sometimes gives out these T shirts at live shows, like the ones we're going to be doing in California in March. So if you were already thinking about, or maybe even weren't thinking about, but should be thinking about getting tickets to one of our two live shows, one in San Francisco, one in Los Angeles, now, you know there are potential T shirt giveaways in the mix. So get those tickets.

[Leah Littman]

And I'm pretty sure I'm gonna make just the tip ones.

[Kate Shaw]

Oh, wow. That's pretty exciting. Reason enough.

[Melissa Murray]

Okay. Strict scrutiny is brought to you by Planned Parenthood. The courts matter. The law matters. But so do the people behind the cases. The patients, the families and the communities that Planned Parenthood serves every day this year, the attacks on reproductive freedom have been relentless. President Trump and his Congress have defunded Planned Parenthood, a move that harms the health and lives of 1.1 million patients across the United States. Planned Parenthood is in court to keep this disastrous law from taking away health care from millions of people. But they urgently need your help. You can rush your gift by visiting plannedparenthood.org defend no matter the size, your donation makes a real difference. Helping Planned Parenthood meet this moment and protect access to care when it matters most right now. So don't wait. Donate [e-mail] defend. That's www.PlannedParenthood.org defend with Venmo Stash.

[Jordan Thomas]

A taco on one hand and ordering a ride in the other means you're stacking cash back with Venmo Stash. Get up to 5% cash back when you pick a bundle of Your favorite brands earn more cash when you do more with stash Venmo Stash terms exclusions apply. Match $100 cash back per month. See terms of Venmo Mel.

[Melissa Murray]

So things that I need or learned that I needed this year. So first up, caddis readers. And yes folks, macular degeneration is real if you are an older person and I am the oldest person on this podcast. So this year I got myself some readers and not just any readers. I got caddis readers. So these are fashionable. Mine actually are camouflage and very cool. And you can get them in all kinds of strengths. You can get them as progressive readers where you can see over the top and then under. I don't know. They explained it to me some kind of way. Either way, I can read again. It's fantastic. I'm going to recommend it to some of the Republican justices so they too can read again.

[Leah Littman]

So helpful.

[Melissa Murray]

So helpful. I'm just the gift that keeps on giving. In addition to those readers, I also love and I brought a prop black wing matte pencils. Like, I don't know about you, but when I start writing an article or whatnot, I like to actually write it down on paper. Just the tip. And I love writing with these pencils. It just like, it's like a really soft lead. It makes a really nice line. And like sometimes when I'm doodling, I just like doodle all over my little notes for myself. And I like doing it with a black wing matte pencil. They're really great and they have a really cool eraser at the bottom. So highly recommend that. And then since November 2024, as Leah suggested, it's been really hard kind of dealing with things. So one way that I have been dealing, and I don't recommend this, but every now and again I think it's nice to open a bottle of as ever rose from my someday friend, the other mm, the Duchess of Sussex, Meghan Markle, and have a little glass, like a little tipple.

[Kate Shaw]

I'm disappointed you don't have a prop to show us your open bottle of rose.

[Melissa Murray]

I actually do.

[Kate Shaw]

We didn't even script that.

[Jordan Thomas]

Let me see that bottle.

[Melissa Murray]

I would have like, actually, I forgot. It's actually in the, in the den. But you know, like, it's. It actually is surprisingly good wine that you can buy on the Internet. Like not. It's not all wine you buy on the Internet is great, but this is pretty good. I like it refreshing.

[Kate Shaw]

All right, Jordan, over to you.

[Melissa Murray]

I'll.

[Jordan Thomas]

I'll return back to the Theme of tickets. So Lily Allen tickets are, I think, for, you know, those who are fans, I hopefully get a chance to. To see her. But I actually, I really like Hard Roc rock and I know that that's a, you know, unusual genre for. For listeners of this podcast. But those of you who are sympathetic, Evanescence just announced a new tour with Spirit Box. And I absolutely love Evanescence.

[Melissa Murray]

And why is he talking about Evanescence like, this wasn't a band from the 1990s.

[Jordan Thomas]

Not everybody listens to hard rock. Not everybody listens to hard rock. This is not about age.

[Leah Littman]

I would say Evanescence is hard rock.

[Melissa Murray]

I don't know if that's hard rock.

[Jordan Thomas]

You didn't listen to the.

[Kate Shaw]

I'm listening to the young person's genre.

[Leah Littman]

I'm gonna go with gay.

[Jordan Thomas]

Evanescence is hard rock.

[Melissa Murray]

That's because you were reading in the 90s, Kate. Like, Leah. And I, like, I don't know that Evanescence is hard rock.

[Kate Shaw]

Do you?

[Melissa Murray]

What do you think, Leah?

[Leah Littman]

I say no, but I say no, too.

[Jordan Thomas]

That's fair.

[Melissa Murray]

And Jordan?

[Kate Shaw]

That's fair.

[Jordan Thomas]

I mean, Evanescence, to be fair, I think aside from Linkin park is the most mainstream of hard rock bands. When you look at their streams on Spotify, it's basically Linkin park and Evanescence. So I love that they have.

[Melissa Murray]

You know, I just wonder if maybe the youth have gotten soft. Jordan. Like, maybe that's what happened. Now it's hard rock. But it wasn't.

[Jordan Thomas]

Well, I think that they were adjacent to other bands that I was going to mention, like Sleep Token, Spirit Box, Bad Omens, Architects. Do you know any of these?

[Melissa Murray]

Obviously I do join them.

[Jordan Thomas]

Anyway, these. All of these bands just released new music. They're all going on tour continuing in 2026. Korn, also a band from the 90s, is going on tour in 2026. So for those of us who are fans of hard rock music, it's just. It's going to be an amazing year of concerts that have just been announced, and I need to get tickets for many of these. I don't know how many I'll actually be able to go to, but I'll try. Aside from that, I'm wearing right now these beautiful set of Sony headphones, and they work very well for me when I need noise canceling. But what I actually need is there are a pair of behind the head headphones called marathon headphones that don't squish your hair. And so for those of you who have the same problem that I do, that you love to listen to music. You're listening to it 24, but you need something where you can just sort of wrap it around your head. Good sound quality and it's not going to mess up your due for the day. They're called marathon and I used to have this beautiful pair and they broke. So I am now studying for law school finals without my go to headphones and I desperately need a new pair of marathon behind the neck headphones.

[Melissa Murray]

Marathon. If you're listening to this, you can't buy this kind of publicity. I just want you to know, send those to the Yale Law School, 124 Wall Street, New Haven, Connecticut, 06511.

[Kate Shaw]

Wait, is the brand marathon or that's a category of headphones that's. It's actually like, are they for running? Are they running headphones?

[Jordan Thomas]

No, it's sort of. If you go on and you type in marathon behind the behind the head, behind the neck headphones, they'll pop right up.

[Leah Littman]

So, something to wear. My first recommendation is the form a posture bra. And yes, this is the bra that Taylor Swift was photographed in when she was rehearsing for the Eras tour. And yes, that is why I bought my first one. But it's so good. Like, it actually helps my back.

[Kate Shaw]

That's. It Actually help posture? That's the one that's supposed to give you good posture.

[Leah Littman]

No, it helps posture. And seriously, like, it really does help back pain. Like, I love that thing, really recommend that. And then so this last year, you know, we had the good fortune of being dressed by Argent at one of our live shows and I am now obsessed. I just love their bright colors and like all of the fun workwear. And yeah, it just like makes, I don't know, like work dressing a lot more fun than it ever was. I also still love the realreal, the outlet. And also anything Melissa recommends, I buy, I end up loving. She is my worst enabler, but her taste is unparalleled.

[Melissa Murray]

So can we tell them about a text exchange we had?

[Leah Littman]

Yes.

[Melissa Murray]

So I got an email update that the Veronica Beard online store was having some kind of cyber Monday sale where everything was marked down. Some things like 70%, 80% crazy. And so I sent it to Leah and I noted, FYI, the iconic scuba jacket, the Scuba Dicky jacket is on sale and heavily discounted. And so Leah, I sent her the precise website for it, the URL Leah clicks on it. And then a few minutes later, I see like the dot, dot, dot, she's thinking and she's like, which color should I buy? Navy or black. And so I said both. I was just joking, but I think then I had to go wash dishes or something. And I think you bought them.

[Leah Littman]

Yeah, I did. Again, you're my worst enabler.

[Melissa Murray]

I was just joking, though.

[Kate Shaw]

Wait, have they arrived yet?

[Leah Littman]

You were just joking.

[Melissa Murray]

They came, though. And you love them, right? I do. That's right. They're gonna go with everything. You're gonna have them forever.

[Leah Littman]

Yeah.

[Melissa Murray]

All right, my turn. Okay, so I am quince pilled, as you know. And quince, I think, is well known for its very accessible cashmere. But do not sleep on the yak wool sweaters. Now, I know you're thinking, Melissa, yak wool does not sound terribly appealing. I, too, was a yak wool skeptic, but I recently purchased one of these sweaters, and it's surprisingly soft. It's even more accessible than the cashmere. And it's the perfect length for layering with, like, a white T shirt and then wearing with, like, corduroys and your sambas. It's like the perfect, like, lounging around outfit. So. And I think they're actually very, very durable. They don't pill. I really like it. Highly, highly recommend. Also want to recommend the Uniqlo white tea. Great, really close collar if you want to wear it under suits and whatnot. Also looks good if you're wearing a crew neck. They're so cheap. They're like 14 at Uniqlo. And you can buy them online. You can buy them in the store. Highly, highly recommend. Also really enjoy the clearly collective collegiate scarf collection. So if you are an alumna of, I don't know, the University of Virginia, there is a scarf in orange and blue. The University of Virginia's colors with the rotunda on it and the lawn. And if you go to some other schools, I don't know, like the University of North Carolina, I guess they have scarves for you too, in whatever your dumb colors are.

[Kate Shaw]

Anyway, we welcome our UNC listeners. Just to be clear, Melissa.

[Melissa Murray]

I'm just kidding.

[Ellen Weintraub]

I'm just kidding.

[Melissa Murray]

We love unc. They're so great. Anyway, so highly recommend those. And right now, because it's getting cold in New York, I have longed for a hat that will not mess up my pixie. And I found the way. Soft cashmere beanie on Amazon. It's a little pricey. It's about $65, like, for a hat you might lose, so you gotta hold onto it. But it's really, like, oversized, so it doesn't push your hair down and it keeps your coiffure in good shape and you just like, take off the hat and just like sort of fluff your hair and you're fine. Again, highly recommend.

[Kate Shaw]

Great. I need more like Melissa enabling kind of shopping in my life. I just don't. I almost never buy anything.

[Melissa Murray]

I do text you things and you.

[Kate Shaw]

Don'T respond, yes, okay. Cause I'm don't stop doing it. I'm receptive. I just am sometimes indecisive. I. But I do think, like, at least.

[Melissa Murray]

Just give me your credit card.

[Kate Shaw]

The T shirts I wear, my friend Isa is always saying that just like, just let me just go shopping for you. But I would say half the shirts I wear on my body are like ones designed by Leah. It's just like, they're great. So I will re recommend Leah Littman T Shirts of the World, our merch store, on the website for the podcast. The strict scrutiny Merch now has at least two baby onesies in the collection. That is new, so.

[Melissa Murray]

And she loves wearing those too.

[Kate Shaw]

I personally do not. And yet something to wear is the general category we are in. And I have a tiny new baby nephew. I only hesitated because I was like, I was. I think it was going to be I'm buying him or I've ordered him a couple of these, but I don't think his parents listened to my podcast. So I think it's fine. I'm not going to ruin the surprise. But if you have babies in your life, get some of our onesies. And then the last is, since we talked about Cozy Earth, which is the maker of that bubble blanket we were talking about, they also make really nice clothing. And I have a pair of. Of their studio wide leg pants that are just like at home, pajama kind of trouser pants that I often do also wear out of the house. And they are so soft and so comfortable. And I'm completely obsessed with them. And this conversation is making me remember. I've worn them so much, they're getting a little frayed at the bottom. I should probably get another pair. I love them.

[Melissa Murray]

You know where they're great for wearing?

[Kate Shaw]

Where?

[Melissa Murray]

To the airport.

[Kate Shaw]

I wear them on the Amtrak.

[Melissa Murray]

See, I usually take the train, but I'm Duffy. No, no. Oh, when you want to stick it to Sean Duffy.

[Kate Shaw]

Because they're all so cute. They don't look schubby. They actually look.

[Melissa Murray]

They are. They don't look schlubby, but they are.

[Leah Littman]

I don't think women are allowed to wear pants in that world.

[Kate Shaw]

Oh, that's true. Yeah.

[Melissa Murray]

Shoes, skirts, and Heels like you will be sticking it to him. You're in your loungewear and your loungewear is pants and you are a lady.

[Kate Shaw]

Good point.

[Melissa Murray]

Yeah.

[Kate Shaw]

All right, Jordan, you're up.

[Jordan Thomas]

I'll double down on the strict scrutiny gear. It's basically all I wear these days. I'm wearing my beautiful lawless hoodie right now and can never get enough of it. I also want Crooked gear. I was at CrookedCon, one of the highlights of the year for sure. But by the time that I went to try to get merch, they actually had closed the merch stand, which is very unfortunate.

[Kate Shaw]

We are going to fix this. We are going to hook you up with some gear. That's good to know.

[Jordan Thomas]

But I did see online, you know, follow Crooked on Instagram and all your social media channels and I saw that you can actually go online and get some of the merch that was at CrookedCon. So if you, like me, missed your chance to get merch. Something to wear is to go onto the Crooked site and look at their store. They have a very robust offering of items that I hope to get and to wear aside from strict scrutiny or crooked gear. I need a new set of jeans and I love dark wash jeans. I love the the look of them. You can pair them with most types of outfits and you can sort of wear them down, wear them up. And so I'm in the market for dark wash jeans and I love this brand called Mavi jeans. So something to wear. They have a nice dark wash style. They have a darker sort of off gray, black, if you're into that, you know, for the goth people amongst us or if you're just looking for something to pair with a nice sort of top that needs a black bottom. Mavi jeans are amazing. They look great, they feel great. I need some Mavi jeans.

[Melissa Murray]

Can I ask a question, Jordan?

[Jordan Thomas]

Yes.

[Melissa Murray]

Is it Mavi M a V I.

[Jordan Thomas]

M A V I Mavi jeans.

[Melissa Murray]

That's from the 90s, Jordan. Like all of your picks are old schools.

[Kate Shaw]

We are learning something important about you, Jordan.

[Jordan Thomas]

I'm an old soul.

[Leah Littman]

Are we old school? Old soul?

[Melissa Murray]

Yeah. Jordan.

[Kate Shaw]

His twenties.

[Jordan Thomas]

Like I use pink moisturizer. I listen to Evanescence and Third Eye Blind. What can I say, Melissa?

[Kate Shaw]

This is great. This is why we get along.

[Melissa Murray]

Jordan, basically, or a 50 year old woman is what you're saying.

[Jordan Thomas]

I'm fine with that.

[Kate Shaw]

I love it.

[Leah Littman]

Okay, so one quick addendum before onto something to read. I am wearing this cardigan that Melody got me for my birthday and I'm obsessed. It It's a secret cardigan because Taylor hasn't actually made a reputation cardigan, but this is a reputation cardigan and I love it. Okay, so on Something to Read, I'm only going to recommend fiction. So Alison Espach, Wedding People, Anything by Julianne Long. I especially enjoyed the Pennyroyal Green series, Lisa Claypas, the Wallflower series was my favorite. I love Sarah Maclean's the Summer Storms, v. E. Schwab's Bury My Bones in the Midnight Soil, Liz Moore God of the Woods. All just fantastic books. You can get them [e-mail] and support your local independent bookstores. I also joined Book of the Month, which I really like. Just gift that keeps on giving. You know, you get to select different book every month from among their great recommendations. It's just super fun. Also in the category of fiction, something I wanted to highlight is the conservative slash Republican justices on the Wisconsin Supreme Court. Their fiction just like making shit up. So by way of background, quickly, the Wisconsin Supreme Court appointed some three judge panels to hear challenges to the State's Court adopted Congressional map. That sounds weird. Just let it slide. You know, when the court was still conservative slash Republican controlled, they adopted a congressional map. You know, the procedural posture isn't worth getting into right now, but the court adopted the map and said it complied with the Constitution. Now some plaintiffs are challenging the map, which is an extreme partisan gerrymander. You know, the map was drawn using the state legislature's extreme partisan gerrymander as a jumping off point. Anyways, several of the conservative justices on the court had an absolute fucking melty and got big mad when the Supreme Court appointed these panels to hear these challenges. And apparently they were so out of their minds they hallucinated quotes from Supreme Court opinions. So Justice Ziegler, for example, quoted the United States Supreme Court opinion in Moore vs Harper in saying that state court's role in congressional redistricting is, quote, exceedingly limited and unquote. That quote does not appear in Moore. And Justice Ziegler has since modified her opinion, but in ways that are nonsensical. So now her opinion says state court's role in congressional redistricting is exceedingly limited and cites more. But it cites the passage in Moore that just says state courts may not transgress the ordinary bounds of judicial review in election cases. That is that they have a normal role. You know, the opinion is laced with accusations. It, you know, has many different sections, including a part title A Pattern of Partisan Judicial Activism. Justice Rebecca Bradley also has a dissent. And since I Love my girl. Rebecca Bradley had to read a line or two from it. Quote. I'll just go with the ending. The majority nevertheless entertains yet another kick at the redistricting cat. Unlike Schrodinger's cat, this one most assuredly has been dead for years. I dissent. End quote. Girl, this one did not work. You know you got to do a wolf, not a cat, right? She missed the memo.

[Melissa Murray]

Their opinion in the right family.

[Leah Littman]

Exactly, exactly, exactly. Like, these opinions have big. Like, we are infallible because we are final energy. Like, how dare you criticize us? But a challenge to this map could undo one of the worst Republican leading partisan gerrymanders in the country. So definitely a case to watch.

[Kate Shaw]

Okay, I'm going to be a little shorter. No shade. Leah, that was great, but I don't have a lot of long quotes from unhinged state Supreme Court justices to read.

[Leah Littman]

As I said, fiction, Right?

[Kate Shaw]

Okay. So, nonfiction. I'm just gonna do a little bit. I had hoped to be able to say on this pod. I finally finished reading Robert Caro as the power broker, but I cannot say an untrue thing. And I am so close, and yet I am not done. So I really hope that by the time we get to 2026's Favorite Things, and hopefully well before I will be able to say I'm really done with it. But it's amazing. It's just so fucking long. But I'm inside of the finish line. Other kind of nonfiction books that stuck with me this year. Michael Lewis's who is Government? The the Elon Musk biography by Kate Conger and Ryan Mack called Character Limit was really, really good. John Witt's the Radical Fund. We had John on the show to talk about it. Those kind of really stuck with me from the last year. And just a couple of fiction books to recommend or re recommend. Allegra Goodman's Isola so Beautiful. Lily King's Heart the Lover, which I've already recommended. Kavia Akbar's Martyr and Ben Shattuck's short story collection, the History of Sound. Every single short story in that collection, which is not my genre. Like, I am not a short story fan normally, but I absolutely adored these short stories.

[Melissa Murray]

All right, nonfiction. Tina Knowles, matriarch. Loved it. I know everyone thinks it's just a little Destiny's Child confessional, but there's actually a lot of black history. She talks a lot about her childhood growing up in Galveston in this very tightly knit black community. Her work in Houston, how she basically transformed her daughter into one of the world's biggest pop sensations. So, yeah, like, Ms. Tina is doing all the things and you should definitely get on that. I also loved Imani Perry's Black in Blues. Imani Perry is a former law professor. Now she's just a professor. Not just a professor at Princeton, but she's left the law game and she's just crushing it. She's one of the most formidable thinkers, I think, of our time. She wrote this fantastic book, south to America. This is the follow up, Black and Blues, where she talks about the linkages between black and the color blue. So there's a lot of meditation on the blues, obviously, but also black, blue, and what it means to have color in the absence of color. She's a wonderful writer, a serious thinker, and someone that should be on everyone's radar. Some of you know that my favorite author is Jane Austen, and so I really enjoyed Rebecca Romney's Jane Austen's Bookshelf, which are like, all the things that Jane Austen and her sister Cassandra used to read as they were exchanging letters. And she was basically being a petty, writing stuff about people in her village. And, like, that's my energy. And so I. I enjoy it. I enjoy Jane Austen. I'm. I love her petty vibe and highly enjoyed this book. In terms of fiction, I think, Leah, you like this one too. I really enjoyed Taylor Jenkin Reid's atmosphere, which is a 19A book, I guess you might call it historical fiction because it takes place in the 1980s at. As the space program is sort of just getting off in terms of the shuttle program, and it's about a group of astronauts. You might like this, Jordan, since it takes place in the past. There's also Marie Bostick's the Book Club for Troublesome Women. I picked that up because I thought it was about our podcast, but it really wasn't. It was about something else and. But I enjoyed it a lot. And then I also really want to recommend the Loneliness of Sonya and Sunny by Karen Desai. It was shortlisted for the Booker Prize and I personally think it should have won. I thought this was one of the.

[Kate Shaw]

Best books of the year.

[Leah Littman]

So before we go to Jordan, Kate and Melissa, any other nonfiction books you especially enjoy.

[Melissa Murray]

Oh, geez.

[Kate Shaw]

That was this year. Everyone. Everyone.

[Melissa Murray]

I mean, I thought that was obvious.

[Kate Shaw]

Should have been. I know. And Jordan actually gets the gold medal for wearing the sweatshirt. But Lena Lippman's Lawless is a book that was.

[Melissa Murray]

How do you know we weren't seating just Jordan to talk about it? How do you know that Maybe you pulled the trigger. He probably was giving it to the.

[Kate Shaw]

Intern because he is an excellent hype man.

[Leah Littman]

I wanted to on the spot and not him.

[Kate Shaw]

Yes, But I think he probably would have done it organically, but yes.

[Melissa Murray]

Let's let Jordan go. Let's. Let's let Jordan go.

[Kate Shaw]

All right. I'm not going to preempt him, but I will say I do co sign the endorsement of Lawless that Jordan is about to make. Go ahead.

[Melissa Murray]

Go, Jordan.

[Jordan Thomas]

I. I was actually going to lead with Lawless, so you two are off the hook. It's my top book of the year. I just think it's really unique for the genre. It's so accessible. It's funny in many ways. Brought my mom and dad up to speed on what's happening at the court, so it's always wonderful when I could speak with them about what's going on. So Leah just did a phenomenal job with the book. And I think for those who love American Horror Story and the Barbie movie and what a mix of pop culture and law, which is this podcast encapsulated in a book so perfectly. That's Lawless for you. So, so just wonderful. Deserves a bestseller status that it's attained.

[Kate Shaw]

Let's go.

[Melissa Murray]

I just wanna say, you know, Leah, have a little faith. Like, we did coordinate this.

[Leah Littman]

Oh, yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure we did.

[Melissa Murray]

I mean, I knew Jordan was gonna say it.

[Kate Shaw]

Look how he's dressed.

[Melissa Murray]

I mean, that he's wearing. Look at what he's wearing.

[Jordan Thomas]

I was ready.

[Kate Shaw]

That's fair.

[Leah Littman]

That's fair. Okay, I accept your critiques.

[Kate Shaw]

Wait, but Jordan, you can leave it there. You are allowed to have mic drop, but you are also welcome to Endors Things if you would like.

[Jordan Thomas]

I will say that this, this book is premier amongst books, but I will give a few others another premiere book. Actually, I will say husband of the pod, Chris Hayes, the Sirens Call. How Attention Became the World's Most Endangered Resource is a phenomenal book, I think, for people who are really into, you know, the anxious generation and generally thinking about how digital media is really changing all sorts of social interaction and personal cognization. It's just a wonderful contribution to that genre. And he does a really job of actually proposing solutions as well and weaving in the law. So just Chris Hayes of Sirens Call does it all. Another friend of the podcast, bad law by Elie 10 laws that are Ruining America sort of walks you through things like standard ground laws, different gun laws in different states that are really contributing to inequality and injustice across the Country. That I thought was very well done, especially if you like his other book, allow me to retort, A Black Man's Interpretation of the Constitution. It's very much a follow on to that and it's very funny as Ellie tends to be a classmate of mine, actually, Yale Law School, Zakir Tammies just came out with Charles Sumner, Conscience of a Nation.

[Melissa Murray]

We love that one.

[Jordan Thomas]

Absolutely wonderful contribution. He actually wrote this or started writing it when he was a 3L in law school. I don't know how he made time to do it, but it's a wonderful new look at a forgotten figure of sorts. Everybody remembers Charles Sumner for his caning on the Senate floor, but people don't actually appreciate how much he contributed to the Reconstruction era project.

[Melissa Murray]

Like why he got caned.

[Jordan Thomas]

Yeah, he was actually. He was a part of the Radical Republicans at the time and he had deep links to Frederick Douglass, and not just Frederick Douglass, but several early black lawyers in the Reconstruction south and was helping to lead the charge of Reconstruction post antebellum rebuilding. And so just really fascinating look at Charles Sumner from my friend Zakir. I'll also put out there a new book by Sonia Sotomayor. I think we don't give enough attention to her. We're talking about Anthony Kennedy's new memoir. We're talking about Amy Coney Barrett's new memoir, but I will say Justice Sotomayor just came out with a children's book. It's called Just Shine. How to Be Yourself. How to Be Great, I think is what it is. And it's really much in this sort of ilk of new children's books that she's put out in the past few years. She had one called Just Ask, Just Help. And so this one's called Just Shine and it's dedicated to her mother. And it's really showing children how to. To explore differences amongst people, but also lean into themselves and to be brilliant, to be kind, to be empathetic. And I just think it's really wonderful, you know, at a time when you have cases like Mahmoud v. Taylor that are, you know, making it more difficult for children in schools to access books of sorts because of parental opt outs, it's really sort of telling that one justice is make it easier for children to access books because she's writing them herself. So I just think it's one wonderful.

[Melissa Murray]

I noticed, Jordan, that although you like to do these throwbacks, you haven't thrown back to another strict scrutiny book, the Trump Indictment.

[Jordan Thomas]

There it is.

[Leah Littman]

I thought it was Melissa, just gonna.

[Melissa Murray]

Say this book, after this year in this court. This is basically fantasy. This is a fantasy reading.

[Leah Littman]

It's moved from the nonfiction to the fiction. Fantasy, correct?

[Melissa Murray]

Yeah, correct. This episode of strict scrutiny is sponsored by Cards Against Humanity. Cards Against Humanity. It's not just about party games. Cards Against Humanity is the company that bought land on the US Mexico border to stop Trump's wall. It sued elon Musk for $15 million for trespassing on that land. It used profits from red states to fund abortion access, and it paid people to give a Damn about the 2024 election. Like I said, not just party games. Did you even know all of that stuff they were doing? Rock on, people. Cards Against Humanity is one of the only companies stupid enough to stand up to President Donald J. Trump. They don't profit from their political stunts. So if you want them to be able to afford a good lawyer, please consider buying one of their new games. There's Cards Against Humanity Tales, a book of fill in the blank stories for horrible people. People. Basically, it's like Fed Sock Mad Libs. You're gonna love it. Or their shit list. A new way to play the game where you write the answers basically sounds like a shadow docket order from the Supreme Court. Or you can try Party Mouth, a new party game about shouting obscenities as a coping mechanism for the hellscape that we live in. Basically, that's a strict scrutiny episode. You listen to crooked media, so you probably are smart enough to figure out how to buy Cards Against Humanity stuff. So I'm not going to tell you. In any event, Cards Against Humanity apologizes for interrupting your podcast with this BS Score Holiday gifts.

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[Jordan Thomas]

Because there's always something new.

[Melissa Murray]

I'm giving all the gifts this year with that extra 5% off when I use my Nordstrom credit card.

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[Leah Littman]

Maybe super quickly. Just some highlights of last year and goals for the next. I absolutely loved our time at CrookedCon. It was just like a magical, energetic audience. I loved meeting like the VIPs at our different live shows this last year. This might be surprising to people. I am not an extrovert and yet I loved meeting all of you. How both of these things can be true. Slightly shocking specific live show highlights. Melissa gave me a nickname, Sugar Goblin, which I have embraced us all. Getting to eat Giordano's pizza in Chicago and getting to give a shout out to the stage manager's father. And before the show, Melissa, you learning what just the tip means. Will not forget that the DC crowd cheering for a Chevron deference. Judge Breyer making an appearance at our New York City live show. This is a highlight of the last few weeks. So guess what our producer Melody Rowell's number one song on her Spotify raft was. You're never gonna guess, so I'm just gonna tell you. It's Tate McCrae's sports car. And this makes me laugh so hard every time I remember it. She gave me permission to share it. It's okay, Melody. It's fine. I listen to Addison Rae's fam gun when I stretch. It's all good. One other highlight, completing the marathon swim about one year after the bike accident. That was a major highlight.

[Melissa Murray]

Yay. Okay, my highlights. Really want to thank the folks at Argent for dressing us for our live shows. Thank you to Sally Christiansen and Alex DiCapo Patel for making us look so put together like an amazing rainbow of legal analysis. You are absolutely fantastic. We love, love that. Another thing I love but I know Melody hates is when Cole jingle bombs an episode. And if you don't know what that means, Cole has a little bell on his collar and sometimes he just walks in and you can hear it. And Melody absolutely hates it, but we all kind of love it a little bit. I also enjoyed our backstage shenanigans. I'm not going to be shamed for not knowing what just the tip is.

[Leah Littman]

That was not a shame.

[Melissa Murray]

We're all here to learn and. And it's fine. I also really enjoyed meeting Jordan's parents and also Kate's parents. Kate's parents showed up in Chicago, and.

[Kate Shaw]

Jordan's parents, I will co sign, are just unbelievably lovely people who we've now met at a couple of live shows and are just like angels who walk the earth, as far as I can tell. They really are wonderful. Jordan, they are lovely.

[Jordan Thomas]

Thank you all.

[Kate Shaw]

Okay, I will briefly agree about the live shows in D.C. leah mentioned cheering for Chevron. There was also, at some point, we shouted out the government workers in the crowd and just this roar came up. And that was relatively early in this absolute dystopic nightmare that we were living through. But just like so much gratitude to the people who are sticking it out and trying to do the people's work.

[Melissa Murray]

Some of whom were our students, we had some former students.

[Kate Shaw]

We did. And we also had a member of the D.C. audience who spilled some remarkable tea afterwards. So I'm still thinking about that as kind of a hotel highlight from the last year. Also highlight the same week of Crooked Con, we had a pretty high impact election, including of New York City mayors Oran Mamdani, who will be inaugurated just a couple of days after this episode drops. That feels like an exciting bright spot in an otherwise really, really dark time. My New York City book club has also been a great bright spot. Lots of Recommendations on the WhatsApp in addition to substantive book discussion. I've watched a lot of children's, both middle school and high school basketball in the last year as both of my older kids, really serious ballers these days. And actually it's incredibly fun to watch your kids play increasingly high level basketball, even if travel basketball is kind of the bane of my existence. It's also been incredibly fun and as awful as this administration, as this court, kind of as the two together are, it has been just an enormous, you know, source of relief and comfort and often amusement and even joy to get to debrief it with you, Leah, and you, Melissa, and more recently you Jordan, and with our listeners. So that too has been a highlight of the last year year. Jordan, over to you.

[Jordan Thomas]

Well, the number one highlight for sure of the past year has been starting to work with you all. I started in January, so coming up almost on the one year anniversary and it's, it's just been wonderful. I, I remember every live show, I think I went to every single one this year, starting with Fordham in February and onward. And, and they've all been fun and unique in their own way. Actually, the only one I did not go to was dc, much to my chagrin because I was graduating that week. And so that's another highlight of the year. Was I actually finally in this very long JD MBA pathway, had a double graduation in May, law school first and then 10 days later business school. And now I'm in this sort of weird semester that remains because of the structure of my dual degree. But once I submit my last exam on December 22, I will forever be done with being a student. So it's the end of an era this year, which is, you know, congratulations.

[Leah Littman]

The legal profession needs you.

[Jordan Thomas]

Well, it's very exciting to be transitioning now to actually being able to use the knowledge and to try to in some ways contribute to this crazy universe that we're in right now every single week. As you all recap on this podcast, it seems like there's something else that's on fire. And if I could try to use what I've learned over the past few years and continue to learn through this wonderful leeway education that is this podcast, you know, it's really an honor to be able to do so. So my big highlights, working with Strix group scrutiny, finally graduating, getting ready to be impactful. And I'll also say listening to strict scrutiny. So on my Spotify wrapped, it said that I listened to 13,070 minutes, which is a little.

[Melissa Murray]

Sounds right.

[Jordan Thomas]

A little over 217 hours of strict scrutiny, and it put me in the top. Nothing wrong with that top 0.05%, which I'm hoping that means I'm the number one listener from the past year. And that was a real high highlight.

[Melissa Murray]

I think Sam Alito might have you be the hate listening crowd.

[Jordan Thomas]

0.01%. I'm 0.0.

[Melissa Murray]

No, he hate listens.

[Jordan Thomas]

But all of those are highlights.

[Leah Littman]

So some New Year's goals. Speaking of Sam Alito, I want to review Sam Alito's book. I just really want to do that. I think that would be fun. I like writing book reviews, so want that to happen. I also want to read uncensored versions of Elena Kagan's dissent. So I'm going to repeat that request. If there is a crooked con next year, I want it to feel like the same high as this year did on the heels of the November 2025 elections. I'd also like a Kavanaugh meltdown around that same time as we had this past year, too. And finally, I want the three of them, us, Melody, Michael, and Jordan, to be in the same places for more extended periods of time.

[Kate Shaw]

That would be great. I'm just going to do one, which is that I'm talking about Justice's books. I want Elena Kagan to write a book, but I don't want it to be a memoir, and I don't even really want it to be a law book. I want Elena Kagan to write fiction. I feel like she would slay in that genre.

[Melissa Murray]

Fascinating.

[Kate Shaw]

And that's all just putting it out there to the end.

[Melissa Murray]

Universe.

[Leah Littman]

Okay.

[Melissa Murray]

I think I'm going to bring down the vibe a little bit. I think my goal for this year is literally just surviving this craptastic administration. I think it's just becoming, I think especially as a person of color, I think it's becoming harder to imagine that you are insulated from the crap that they're doing like that, you know, looking at all of the people Being, you know, swept up on the streets like that, just because you're a citizen, you're going to be exempt from that. You know, now that they're focusing on Somalis, I think black people can't be assured that they are going to be safe and inoculated from all of this. So I'm just saying that if you have friends in your lives who fall into these categories of people who are likely to be targeted or look like people who are likely to be targeted, I just think everyone ought to be aware that, like, it just feels really unsafe and that that lack of safety feels very uncertain. Sorry. And that lack of safety feels chill.

[Kate Shaw]

Like, Cole's, like, I will protect if no one's coming for you, Cole.

[Melissa Murray]

Protect me. I just think it feels really uncertain. And I just, you know, I think the goal is to survive and to take care of each other and to resist this.

[Jordan Thomas]

Yeah.

[Kate Shaw]

Amen.

[Jordan Thomas]

Yeah. In a similar register, for me, just more resistance, more energy and passion around continuing to make our voices heard. I think that the chaos is the point, the exhaustion is the point. They want us to feel demoralized and to feel like there's nothing you can do in the face of what's happening every single day from ICE and the like. But I think that you look at the energy around the no Kings marches that took place this year, that was really exciting. More of that in 2026. More marches. It doesn't have to be no Kings. Think about what it is that we're passionate about and try to galvanize some sort of energy and movement beyond. We need to really try to show that the people are resisting and that there are political, but also on the ground, boots on the ground, voices being heard, consequences to actions being taken by this administration. So more of that in 2026, and also more institutional resistance. I think that the judiciary, the lower courts in particular, were great bulwarks of constitutionalism over the past year. And I hope that we continue to see judges like Judge William Young on the District of Massachusetts, right? He got this. This terrible note that said, Trump has pardons and tanks. What do you have? And he goes on to write this absolutely fire opinion that says, you know, alone, all I have is my sense of duty, but together, you and I, we have this thing called the Constitution. Here's how that plays out in an opinion. And he wrote this wonderful opinion upholding free speech rights of non citizens who are being ideologically detained and deported. So I think that continuously judgment, all the clerks who are working for these judges continuing to make sure that you uphold the bastion of constitutionalism in our country will be important so people on the streets, judges and clerks in the courts, and hopefully we can try to fight our way through 2026.

[Kate Shaw]

Thank you for landing that as the conscience of the podcast, Jordan. That's a great place to, I think, leave.

[Melissa Murray]

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[Jordan Thomas]

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[Melissa Murray]

I'm giving all the gifts this year with that extra 5% off when I use my Nordstrom credit car card.

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[Kate Shaw]

And now a very warm welcome to our guest for the end of this episode, Ellen Weintraub. We're recording this episode at the end of the week during which the court handed in a pretty, we thought, appalling performance in both Trump vs Slaughter about the future of independent agencies and also Our&C vs Federal Election Commission about campaign finance regulation. And since this is our favorite things episode and independent agencies and regulating money in politics are two of our favorite things, we wanted to bring Ellen into the end of this episode. So, Ellen, welcome back to the show.

[Ellen Weintraub]

Thank you so much. Pleasure to be here.

[Kate Shaw]

Ellen, you are a former commissioner and I think four time chair of the Federal Election Commission that is traditionally an independent agency and obviously it regulates money in politics. So you have a lot of skin in both of the cases that the court heard this week. What did you make of those arguments?

[Ellen Weintraub]

Well, it was not a particularly uplifting week for me. I sat through, I listened to both of them from start to end. And I think they're really there's a common theme in the two of them and it has to do with money. It's all about the power of big money in our government and in our society and whether the government is going to take any steps to address that or to try and push back against the big power of big industries. I know the Supreme Court is very fond of the founders and sort of obsesses about what they thought. But let's face it, the founders were a bunch of guys in powdered wigs who carried muskets, rode on horseback. It's not surprising that they failed to anticipate the needs of a 21st century economy and the need in particular for a cadre of experts in the government to have any kind of hope of pushback to protect the rights of citizens, consumers, employees against the unregulated power of billion dollar businesses. I thought it was really interesting. There was a very interesting pair of quotes in the Slaughter argument where Justice Sotomayor, she wasn't pulling any Punches. She just came right out and said, you're asking us to destroy the structure of the government. And Justice Kavanaugh seemed to be very concerned about the notion that these agencies are exercising massive power over billion dollar industries. Well, yes, that's kind of the point. Right. We want to have an effective government so that somebody other than the billion dollar industries and the billionaires behind the billion dollar industries has a say and that their interests are represented.

[Melissa Murray]

Yeah, well, that was actually a part of the oral argument that I thought was noticeably absent. They were talking these really abstract terms about democracy, about administrative agencies being unaccountable to the people, that somehow Congress is not a democratic institution, but the President is. And no one is really sort of drilling down to the actual reasons why we have a Federal Trade Commission, the fact that. That it exists to prevent the consolidation of industries of wealth, of monopoly power. And the very people who lined up to sit behind Donald Trump at his second inauguration are the very same people who stand to benefit from a hobbled or newly reconstituted ftc. And it was like no one would talk about that. And I think that was also absent from some of the media coverage, honestly.

[Ellen Weintraub]

And I think, again, this. This lack of awareness of what's really going on out there was echoed in the NRSC opinion where the. The justices. I'm sorry, I just don't think they know very much about how campaign finance really works, because this is.

[Kate Shaw]

You don't have to apologize for saying that on this podcast. We agree.

[Ellen Weintraub]

This is not the first time that I have heard them say, well, that's totally speculative. That would never happen about things that are actually happening. You know, back at the Buckley decision, we had a clear statement from the court that said that individual contribution limits were necessary to deal with the reality or appearance of corruption inherent in a system permitting unlimited financial contributions. And we're pretty close to that system right now because the coordination rules are already just more whole than cheese, if you want to analogize it to Swiss cheese. And that is partially, I have to say, the fault of the fec, which usually, over my objection, had a number of decisions over the years that really opened the door to more and more interactions between the donors and the political committees and the candidates. But the notion that all of this money is going to be stockpiled and added up and then funneled back to the candidates. We have seen this extension, exact thing, happening as long ago as the 2016 election. And it was both sides, both the Clinton campaign and the Trump campaign, had these massive joint fundraising committees where they were collecting contributions in increments of hundreds of thousands of dollars. And you know, if you wanted to really push it, you could get to a million or perhaps more from individual donors. All of this money supposedly legal because it went to individual accounts of the individual state committees, but what really happened was that it went into their accounts and then immediately bounced back to the national committee to be used for the benefit of the presidential candidates on both sides. And we had a number of the state party committees who actually got dinged by the fec. The larger problem was not addressed by the fec, but they failed to report that they got these contributions and then sent them back to the national committees because they were in their bank account for such a short amount of time, they didn't even know they were there. So the notion that this kind of circumvention is not going to happen, that it's speculative or hypothetical, is completely untethered to reality.

[Kate Shaw]

Well, that wasn't the only thing I would say this week that was pretty untethered to reality. There just, there seemed to be a desire to dwell in the realm of abstraction. I would say in both of these arguments and, and either a kind of a bad faith, either failure to, or just refusal to kind of acknowledge some of the on the ground dynamics. I think that was absolutely true in both of the cases. So let me ask if I am not mistaken, Ellen, you like Rebecca Slaughter, were fired by Donald Trump. And both to the extent that that gives you some special insight into some of the dynamics that we heard about in both of these arguments, but also sort of what, but unfettered presidential control has meant just in the year that Trump has been back in office and will mean going forward at an agency like the fec. Although feel free to comment more broadly and also kind of what it might mean to unleash that throughout other pockets of the federal government, because we really struggled to find a limiting principle that the lawyer arguing against this agency independence was able to identify in the Slaughter argument.

[Ellen Weintraub]

And I think that is very dangerous. It's going to mean a loss of independence. It's going to mean a loss of independent voices. I mean, let's remember that the FEC is a little bit unusual in that it has an even number from each of the two parties. Most agencies are actually under the control of the president and his party because most of the independent agents, most of these multi member boards, which is what we were talking about in the slide Slaughter case, have an odd number and the chair is appointed by the President. So he's got control over these agencies. It's not a question of the President being these agencies acting without any input from the President. But what you're going to lose are any independent voices. And you're also going to lose if this goes down below the very top echelons of these agencies. You're going to lose expertise. And that's already starting to happen obviously across government because A, the President fires people that he doesn't like their opinions, but B, it's going to be much more difficult to recruit good people to come back into government. Why would somebody want to build a career on providing service to the American people? Good, public spirited people that are already working throughout the government or have been working throughout the government. How do you get those people to have the incentive to come back to government if they know that they're going to have no job security? And anytime they voice an opinion that's contrary to the President, they could just get fired. And the firing of people like me who did speak out I think was intended and received as a message of intimidation to other heads of agencies and to other government employees. So I think all of that is going to be to the detriment of the American people.

[Melissa Murray]

Ellen, you mentioned these people that the President is firing in violation of these terms that Congress has set that now maybe the Supreme Court will make permissible going forward. How did you experience the process of being fired by the President from your post at the fec? Some people have said that they got an email from someone. Others have said that they were supposed to get an email, but the person sending the email typed their name wrong. So they never got the email. They found out from a co worker who was cc Like, I mean it just sounds like, you know, they're really doing this government thing at a really high level, like A plus work here. Can you tell us your Trump firing story?

[Ellen Weintraub]

Yeah, I got an email. I actually was not in the office. It was late on a Thursday afternoon and I was out of the office. So I was not staring at my email. It was a two sentence letter. You're removed, effective immediately. Thank you for your service. They did say thank you.

[Kate Shaw]

You did get a thank you. Not everyone did.

[Ellen Weintraub]

I did get a thank you. I was called. But. But a. The, the letter was dated a week earlier. So I don't know where it was was during that week, but it was dated January 31. I didn't get it till February 6 and then it was copied to both the staff director and the general counsel of the agency. And I think as I Said before. I think that was intended and received as a message like we are watching you too. So this person is the first to go and if you don't make sure that she's out of the building, then other people could follow. And I was subsequently cut off from my email. I was removed from. I couldn't get access to the databases. They, they decommissioned the chip in my ID that allowed me access to the building. You know, I was given a little bit of time to clear out my office, which, you know, was nice, I guess, but it was. I was not surprised to be removed by the President. But I thought that what would happen would be that I would be replaced in the normal course, as would have been consistent with the law. But that is not in fact what happened. And by the way, another ramification of all of these firings is that it's a death by decapitation of various agencies, including the fec. The FEC is supposed to have six commissioners, four is a quorum, and now it's down to two. All of the Republican commissioners left this year. One to join the administration, one to go into private practice, one to run for Congress. And then I was fired. So they don't have a quorum and there are no nominations pending. So this is another way that the President fails in his constitutional duty to take care that the laws be faithfully executed. That's the sentence that the originalists don't quote quite so often, also from the Constitution. But Congress set up this agency. They set it up in particular as a bipartisan body. And if the President can just fire people willy nilly so that there is no functional quorum, the agency can't enforce the law. It can't interpret the law, it can't do anything that it' sany of its major important jobs. And the FEC is not the only, only commission that's been effectively decommissioned. You know, the nlrb, I think is in the same situation. There are probably others.

[Kate Shaw]

I think the CPSC maybe lacks a quorum too.

[Melissa Murray]

Yeah, but Ellen, this is so interesting. I mean, the point about dismantling by decapitation. So Ramon Martinez in the argument said that this case was basically moot because the administration wasn't going to enforce it. He might have actually been exactly right, but for a different reason. Like they're not going to enforce it because there's not going be to, to be an fec.

[Kate Shaw]

Yeah, I think. Or he's doubly. He's right for even more reasons that he was identifying. But it did that when you were talking Ellen, it made me think that, you know, their effort to completely sort of slash and burn federal government under the leadership of Elon Musk and Doge was actually pretty unpopular in certain respects. But I wonder whether this reflects a kind of effort to in more, you know, kind of genteel looking ways, like to just exercise the president's rightful article to power, but essentially get to the same place, which is agencies that can do none of the work that Congress empowered them to do and that the people often really need to go back to the first thing you said to do things like protect consumers, prevent corporate consolidation, protect laborers, and so much more. So before we go, Ellen, as you know, this is our Favorite Things episode, and as we've already said, agency independence and campaign finance regulation are among our favorite things, and dismantling them is one of our least favorite things. So we've covered some of that ground. We now want to invite you to share with our listeners some of your favorite things.

[Ellen Weintraub]

Well, I'm sorry that Leah's not here because I actually have some recommendations for her because like her, I like a good mystery.

[Kate Shaw]

Oh, good, she'll listen. Don't worry.

[Ellen Weintraub]

So for Leah, some of the series that I've been listening to or reading that have given me a little bit of joy this year are the Veronica Speedwell series from Deanna Rayburn, which is just very diverting, shall we say an Australian series by an author named Benjamin Stevenson that starts off with a book called Everyone in My Family Has Killed Someone. And it is quite savvy. It's funny. It's, as I said, diverting. I'm reading the latest Louise Penny, the Black Wolf. She's always wonderful. And then on a more serious note, I listened to the audio version of Judi Dench's memoir, the man who Pays the Rent, which I found just wonderful and lovely. For Shakespeare lovers out there, this is Happiness by Neil Williams, set in a little Irish town, very transporting. Anything by Amer Towles and Elizabeth Strout, I would recommend. And I also recommend getting out into the fresh air. I did some travel this year, saw animals, went on a safari with my daughter, and that was really special.

[Kate Shaw]

Does Judi Dench read her own memoir?

[Ellen Weintraub]

Actually, she doesn't because her eyesight isn't very good anymore.

[Kate Shaw]

I see.

[Ellen Weintraub]

But they found an actress who sounds like her. Okay, so that was to read it. So you feel like it's her reading it. There are some excerpts, there are a few little sections of her reading Things, but the rest of it is an actress who sounds like Judi Dench reading Judi Dench's memoir. It's still good. It's fun to listen to.

[Melissa Murray]

There's a dupe for everything.

[Kate Shaw]

Great. All right. Well, Ellen Weintraub, thank you so much. It's always great to spend some time with you.

[Ellen Weintraub]

Happy holidays. Stay strong, be well.

[Kate Shaw]

Thank you.

[Melissa Murray]

Before we take off, let's do a little housekeeping. Guess what? West coast stricties. We are headed your way. That's right. Strict scrutiny is headed to the best coast, and we hope that you will be there to catch us. We are going to be in San Francisco on March 6th at the Herps Theater. You can catch us there and you can just take Southwest or drive all the way down the 5 to LA and catch us the next night, March 7th in Los Angeles at the Palace Theater. Both nights are going to be absolutely fantastic. We are going to do what we always do, which is to say we are going to get you up to speed on this court. There may be a little bit of dragging. Who is to say we have games.

[Kate Shaw]

We almost always do games at live shows. There are often pretty epic.

[Melissa Murray]

Always games, like games. We're going to be impeccably dressed.

[Kate Shaw]

Well, Melissa will be. Leah, too.

[Jordan Thomas]

I'm not.

[Melissa Murray]

Well, I mean, I think Argent's going to be dressing us. And if Argent won't dress us, we're going to wear our pajamas because we're getting on planes and we want Sean Duffy to know that he can't tell us what to do. So there you are. We might just do the whole show in our pajamas just because we're not dressing up. Because you say so. Secretary.

[Kate Shaw]

Lumberjack.

[Melissa Murray]

Anyway. Anyway.

[Ellen Weintraub]

But.

[Kate Shaw]

And if you want to know what. What outfits we're really going to be wearing on the stage, you're going to have to buy tickets. Show up.

[Leah Littman]

You got to be there.

[Melissa Murray]

You've got to be there. Show up. We've been recording for such a long time. I literally like, is he a senator? Is he a secretary? Secretary.

[Kate Shaw]

I like it. I just. I just kicked my ring light.

[Jordan Thomas]

Oh, God.

[Kate Shaw]

Okay. Somebody. Somebody cut our cord.

[Ellen Weintraub]

The plane. The plane.

[Melissa Murray]

So we're going to be landing this plane in San Francisco. Then we're getting on a another plane and headed to la. And we're going to catch you there. So grab your tickets [e-mail] events. You can get them right now. They make amazing holiday gifts. You know, there's someone in your life who's like, you know what I need for the holidays? I need to drag this court. Get that person. Some tickets for March 6th in San Francisco or March 7th in LA. You know what to do. Make it happen.

[Kate Shaw]

Strict Scrutiny is a crooked media production hosted on Executive Producer produced by Leah Lippman, Melissa Murray and me, Kate Shaw. Produced and edited by Melody Rowell. Michael Goldsmith is our Associate producer. Jordan Thomas is our intern. Audio support from Kyle Seglin and Charlotte Landis Music by Eddie Cooper Production support from Katie Long and Adrienne Hill. Matt de Groot is our head of production and thanks to our digital team, Ben Hethcote, Joe Matoski and Johanna Case, our production staff is proudly unionized with the Writers Guild of America East. Subscribe to strict scrutiny on YouTube. To catch full episode, find [e-mail] strictscrutinypodcast if you haven't already, be sure to subscribe to Strict Scrutiny in your favorite podcast app so you never miss an episode. And if you want to help other people find the show, please rate and review us. It really helps.

[Jordan Thomas]

Smartless Mobile here Did you know that 90 of your phone's data goes over wi fi?

[Kate Shaw]

So paying for an unlimited data plan doesn't make sense?

[Jordan Thomas]

Not at all, Sean. No sense at all.

[Kate Shaw]

But do you know what does make sense?

[Jordan Thomas]

Why Smartless Mobile?

[Kate Shaw]

Oh yeah, you could cut your bill in half when you switch from an unlimited plan. Pretty simple math.

[Jordan Thomas]

Unless you're Jason Math, it is not my strong suit.

[Melissa Murray]

Smart smart less mo bulls.

[Kate Shaw]

Go to smartless mobile.com for details. Don't get outsmarted. Get Smartless Mobile.

[Ellen Weintraub]

So good, so good, so good.

[Nordstrom Rack Advertiser]

Get ready cause Clear the Rack is on at your Nordstrom Rack store now through Thursday, January 1st. Find incredible deals on Wear now styles on sale for even less at Nordstrom Rack. Take an extra 25% off red tag clearance throughout the store from brands like Rag and Bone, Madewell, Adidas and more. All sales final the best stuff goes fast, so shop this sale at Nordstrom Rack today. Please see nordstromrack.com or ask a store associate for details.