Build Stronger Confidence with Kristan Serafino

Summary

Stronger with Don Saladino
Episode Title: Build Stronger Confidence with Kristan Serafino
Air Date: February 24, 2026
Host: Don Saladino
Guest: Kristan Serafino, renowned men’s celebrity groomer & entrepreneur

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Episode Overview

This episode of Stronger pivots from physical strength to the kind of everyday confidence and resilience that stems from intentional self-care and grooming. Don Saladino sits down with celebrated men's groomer Kristan Serafino—a force behind the scenes for A-listers—whose mastery goes far beyond hair, touching on self-perception, vulnerability, entrepreneurship, and how looking your best unlocks new confidence. With honesty and humor, Don and Kristan recount her unconventional career change, the real-life challenges of launching her own product line, and practical strategies for showing up as your most confident self—no red carpet required.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

The Origin of a Lifelong Friendship

[01:44]

• Don and Kristan reminisce about their first meeting: Ryan Reynolds’ Men’s Health cover shoot in Tribeca, with “a horrible haircut” that Kristan insisted on fixing.
• The beginnings of mutual respect and support: Don connected Kristan with a shoulder surgeon who would become part of her extended community—a testament to showing up for each other.
• On friendship as a filter:

  “As you age, your circle gets smaller or your circle becomes a square…” – Kristan, [04:43]

Memorable moment:
They share their “done” code; no ask is too big, establishing a depth of friendship based on reliability.

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What It Means to Be a 'Celebrity Groomer'

[06:16]

• Both Don and Kristan bristle at being labeled "celebrity" professionals; the title feels media-driven and misses the point.
• Kristan describes her true purpose:

  “I’m not a celebrity—they are. What I am is the eyes behind the lens. I’m the last person to touch them…before they go out. I’m the authority in my space.” – Kristan, [06:46]

Key Insight:
Her work is about building confidence—especially for clients who are nervous, vulnerable, or undergoing visible life changes.

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From Boston College to the Roof of the Javits Center: Kristan’s Unconventional Career Path

[08:25]

• Kristan shares her journey: a decade in corporate life post-BC, before taking the leap at age 30 into hairdressing—relinquishing a six-figure salary for $6.50/hr at Toni & Guy.
• She describes the “angelic” moment at a hair show that catalyzed her pivot.

Quote:

“I went to the hair show and it was like the angels—they sang. I saw, ‘Oh my gosh, this is what I want to do.’” – Kristan, [10:18]

• Family backstory: Her mom, a 60s hairstylist who funded her father’s education but wanted more educational doors for her daughters.
• Her entrepreneurial roots: Her father was a founder of Champs sporting goods and a sounding board for her as an adult entrepreneur.

  “My dad is an integral part of my business today.” – Kristan, [13:31]

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Breaking In: From Salon Assistant to Red Carpet Authority

[17:22]

• Kristan’s first years: cold-calling publicists, working low-wage salon jobs, and hustling for minor magazine credits.
• Her first celebrity: Elizabeth Berkley, followed by her big break with Matthew McConaughey (an impromptu haircut at his house changed her career trajectory overnight).
• The importance of timing and niche: She rode the media shift from models to celebrities on magazine covers and found her lane as a woman excelling in men’s grooming.

Don’s Perspective:
“She’s at the forefront…now everyone’s asking for Kristen for their shoots. Twenty years ago, that didn’t exist.” – Don, [23:05]

Memorable Anecdote:
Cutting McConaughey’s hair in LA, which led to global work and a long-term working relationship.

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The Unspoken Demands of Grooming and High-Performance Careers

[25:36]

• Grooming is about managing personalities as much as managing physical appearance.

• Don references Alice Cooper’s approach to backup musicians: Technical skill is key, but “who do I want to have a beer with? That list is much shorter.” Relatability and temperament matter, especially when clients are vulnerable.

• Kristan cautions against blurring lines between professional and fan:

  “I am not the celebrity. I’m there for one responsibility only, and that’s to take care of that client.” – Kristan, [25:49]

• The humility in service roles: Both describe being “expendable” and learning to accept, adapt, and move forward when clients move on.

Kristan’s Core Lesson:
“When a client leaves, it makes room for a new one…It’s ebb and flow, just like life.” – [29:31]

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Mastering the Art of Confidence

[32:10]

• Managing diverse and sometimes difficult personalities is a learned skill, underpinned by her parents’ emphasis on self-belief—“we were never allowed to say ‘can’t’”.
• Calm is contagious:

  “If someone’s frazzled, I don’t get frazzled. I stay me…If someone is having a nervous moment, the calmer you become, it brings them back quicker.” – Kristan, [33:04]

• Both Don and Kristan share how quickly they can read moods and recalibrate during a session—whether as coach or stylist—so clients leave feeling confident and supported.

Memorable & Lighthearted Moment:
Kristan once had to shave Don’s back on set for a photoshoot—emphasizing attention to detail and the intimacy/trust of such relationships (with much laughter and self-deprecation). [37:04]

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Entrepreneurship: The Best Paste and Rebuilding at Zero

[39:01]

• Covid shutdown leads Kristan to buy and relaunch a hair product brand, The Best Paste—"confidence in a jar."
• She describes soul-searching, rebranding, perfecting products, and manufacturing logistics, all while personally bootstrapping the operation and supporting a family through hard times.
• The grind: Traveling, handling inventory, patching together a lean team, learning the realities of distribution, and making “thousands of products” by hand when supply runs low.
• Breaking into retailers: Nordstrom, Bloomingdale’s, and a groundbreaking anime collab with Yu-Gi-Oh!—but with immense work behind the scenes to succeed.

Quotes:

“You can have the greatest product on the planet. And if no one knows about it, you ain’t gonna sell it.” – Don, [53:14]
“We’re running lean…but I have such incredible people around me that support me.” – Kristan, [50:06]

• On starting over:

  “Here I am at this stage of my career…I buy a company, I start from zero, nobody knows us…Never spent an ad in advertising. I’ve self-funded the whole thing.” – Kristan, [54:45]

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The Deeper Purpose of Grooming: Confidence, Wellness, and Human Vulnerability

[55:58]

• Kristan’s philosophy: Grooming is about confidence, not vanity. Sitting in the stylist chair is uniquely vulnerable; men and women see their insecurities, rarely their best features.
• For men, women buy nearly half of all grooming products; habits are shifting as younger generations pay more attention to self-care, spurred by social media and changing norms.
• Don observes the wellness crossover—hair and skin care as part of holistic health and self-assurance.

Kristan’s Take:

“For me, it’s confidence in a jar…You use it, and you feel the best that you can that day. When you look in the mirror, you feel your best and that’s what it does for you.” – [61:04]

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On Professional Identity:

  “I’m not just a hairstylist. You know, I’m really not…My work should speak for itself.” – Kristan, [14:20]

• On Being Expendable:

  “If I decide to retire tomorrow, I’m replaced that day…When you establish that thought process, you develop some humility.” – Don, [28:16]

• On Starting Over:

  “At the age of 30, I left it all…I racked up debt. But I always said, I’m gonna make it in this business.” – Kristan, [18:21]

• On The Pressure to Perform:

  “You get in, you gotta sell, because if it’s not moving off the shelves, they’re gonna yank you. Exactly.” – Don, [50:40]

• On Vulnerability in the Chair:

  “Getting your hair cut is the only time in life you will sit in a chair and look in the mirror for an hour. It pulls out every insecurity…” – Kristan, [56:23]

• Don on Kristan’s Grit:

  “What I really keep respecting about you is your grittiness and your ability to level up in situations when people crumble and…give up." – Don, [64:30]

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Timestamps for Major Segments

• [01:44] - How Don & Kristan met, forging a friendship
• [06:16] - Bristling at the “celebrity” label; being the eyes behind the lens
• [08:25] - Kristan’s unconventional pivot to hairdressing and entrepreneurship roots
• [17:22] - Breaking into the industry; cold-calling, first celebrity breaks
• [23:05] - The rise of men’s grooming and magazine culture shift
• [25:36] - Relatability, professional boundaries, and the expendability lesson
• [32:10] - Managing diverse personalities, family lessons in confidence
• [39:01] - The Best Paste: acquisition, challenges, and product journey
• [55:58] - Confidence, wellness, and shifting grooming norms for men
• [64:19] - Don’s admiration for Kristan’s resilience and closing reflections

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Where to Find Kristan

• Instagram: @SerafinoSays
• Product: @thebestpaste

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Key Takeaways

• True confidence is grounded in self-care, self-awareness, and community.
• Career reinvention at any age is possible but requires humility, persistence, and a willingness to start over.
• Behind every outward success is unseen grit: vulnerability, late nights, personal sacrifice, and a deep commitment to lifting others up.
• Grooming—and the right support—can empower anyone to “show up” stronger, whether for a board meeting, a photoshoot, or everyday life.

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*“Let’s get stronger—together.”

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

Welcome to another episode of Stronger. Today I have on one of my very close friends, Kristen Serafino. Kristen is one of the most well known celebrity men's groomer on the planet. She also created her own product line called the best pace, which is what I wear in my hair. But what's interesting about this episode and a lot of you might be asking, why am I bringing a men's groomer on? But Kristen gives a master class in confidence and she has worked with so many of the biggest names in Hollywood before stepping foot on the big screen or in the red carpet. And she helps them with confidence and looking their best. So there are little strategies that Kristen goes into that I think a lot of you are overlooking if you have that important board meeting, if you're going to be on TV or you just want to look great. I think this is going to be a very important episode. And this isn't something that I look at as vanity. This is something that has to do with confidence, how we carry ourselves in life, which is incredibly important. I know you're going to love this episode. Let's go. All right. So you and I have known each other now how many years? I mean, seven, eight? It feels like.

[A]

No, I feel like it's more than that.

[B]

Maybe I could go, oh, no, it's got to be more.

[A]

Yeah. Because it was a cover shoot.

[B]

That's what I mean. It was Ryan Reynolds Men's Health cover shoot. And Blake told me to come down. And I walk in and I remember going down being like, I had a haircut scheduled the next day.

[A]

No, I remember.

[B]

And I walk into this studio in. I think it was like Tribeca.

[A]

Yeah, I think, right.

[B]

I think we were like up high. We were on the roof.

[A]

Yes, we shot on the roof.

[B]

We shot on the roof. And I walk in and Ryan's doing his thing and you looked at me and you're like, don't come with me. And I was like, what, you're getting a haircut right now? I'm like, I'm getting one tomorrow. You're like, no, I can't let you walk around here with that.

[A]

I remember going to his publish. I'm like, who is that? I was like, he's so good looking, but his haircut is like, horrific.

[B]

It wasn't that bad.

[A]

No, it was really bad. It was bad. Like, it was horrible.

[B]

I think it was just overgrown and then.

[A]

No, it was bad. But I mean, you're still so. But I did say you were so handsome.

[B]

Oh, I appreciate that.

[A]

And that was it. Like. And at that point, you sat in the chair. And here's the other part that I think that really solidified who you are as a person and the care you have for people you don't even know if you remember. I was two weeks away from shoulder surgery.

[B]

Oh, yes.

[A]

I was having rotator cuff surgery again.

[B]

And I immediately were like, you need to speak to Charlie. Right.

[A]

And I'll never forget, we were on the roof and I was explaining to you that I had this shoulder problem. I was going in for surgery. And you literally put your hands together and you said, please, please, please come see my guy, please. And I'm like, oh, okay. Like.

[B]

And that guy ended up being in your wedding party, which is.

[A]

I was in his wedding party.

[B]

So you were in his wedding party. You were in his wedding party, which is ironic. And we were all. We were all in his wedding party. It's just so funny how like birds of a feather, like, you just, you know. Cause everyone, you know, everyone's always saying, oh, well, I have the best.

[A]

This.

[B]

Or, he's a world renowned.

[A]

You do have the best.

[B]

He's Charlie. Charlie.

[A]

There's hands down.

[B]

Yeah, he's hands down. So I remember that. And then I got you into the club, but that's when you and I connected. And I met Tommy and Gio through you, and you started training and I met your significant other.

[A]

And that's it.

[B]

So it's gotta be. It's gotta be 10. It's gotta be at least. Cause I couldn't imagine Ryan wasn't gonna do a cover six, seven years ago. There's no way. He probably did this cover if my guess would probably be 13.

[A]

That's what I'm saying.

[B]

It's been a while. Yeah, it's gotta be over 10 years.

[A]

But that's how the relationship started, was that you needed a haircut, which you were scheduled. I cut it.

[B]

It looked terrible.

[A]

You saved me from shoulder surgery. And then we started, you and I. I think is really interesting. We have this thing that there's no one else in the world. I do this with. But before I ask you the question, we will say to each other, done. Like it's done.

[B]

Oh, no, no, always I mean done. I have a question, I have a favor. And I'm like, you know, it's done. What do you, what do you need?

[A]

And so from the beginning, you and I have always sort of established our relationship in that way that it just sort of speaks to, that's who, you

[B]

know, your real friends are. So it's like if you, like, you never ask me for anything, right? And I never. So I think if there is the occasional ask, you want to come through for people that you really care about and that's bringing value to someone's life, which I think a lot of people don't want.

[A]

And it often speaks to in the world as, you know, as you age, your circle gets smaller or your circle becomes a square, as one of my good friends says. And it's interesting who sort of rises to the occasion and you know, you know that, you know, the love of my life has been going through some challenges with his health. And you've stepped up.

[B]

And he's battling. And he's battling. He's battling.

[A]

He's tough. Yes, he is. And you've stepped up, up in so many ways from speaking to me on a daily basis, scheduling calls with me being there as a friend and also introducing me to people.

[B]

You don't speak to me enough. We don't do it enough because that's something. And I always tell you, I have

[A]

a three year old child.

[B]

I know, but we have a family business and I, and I, and I get that. But like the second year, you know, forever in a bad spot. I think we always know the second you text me, I see it. So we, I describe you. It's funny how I describe you because I mean you're so. I was, I got coined as a celebrity trainer, which I hate. And I never liked and I never tried to work with celebrities and they were all been very good to me and very good to my career. But it happened to be that I was good at what I did and a lot of celebrities hired me. So the publications wanted to call me that. Yes, you got coined as a celebrity men's groomer. So when people ask me, what does she do? I say, well, imagine this, what I do for men's grooming. She's probably even a bit more well known because I just feel like you are like the shining star in the industry and you're always with, you're with so many different people. But how do you feel about that title?

[A]

The same way you do. You know, when people say that, and I agree, it really is more of a media thing. And, you know, back in the day when there were magazines and that's all there was, you know, we would get quoted like you. I would end up giving a quote, and it'd be like, celebrity hairstylist, a men's groomer, Kristin Serafino. And he just. I used to cringe because I'm not a celebrity. My clients are. And I would always say that I'm not the celebrity they are. What I am is the eyes behind the lens. I am the last person to touch them or see them before they go out, whether it's on camera, for a photo shoot, for a red carpet, whatever it is. So that's where I see myself as. I'm the authority in my space. I'm not a celebrity, and it's not about. So I struggle with that as well. I hate that term.

[B]

It's not about hair, and it's not about makeup. It's about confidence. It really is. I mean, coming into a situation where. And you know as well as I do, a lot of the celebrities going out into these environments, they are nervous, they want to look good, they want to make a good impression. They are maybe sometimes feeling a little vulnerable. And we know a lot of them, you know, if someone just has a baby or if someone is put on a little bit of weight for a role, they don't feel great about themselves. They might be losing their hair. There's so many things that they come to you for, but they are really, at the end of the day, coming to you because they want that little bit of confidence. Because if they have that confidence and they can go do their job at a higher level of quality.

[A]

You know, it's funny you say that. I like to say, speak to my job as a. I am a hairstylist that does men's grooming. So a lot of times the term men's groomer means skin. And so, like, more makeup. So a lot of men's groomers are makeup artists that will style hair, whereas I'm the opposite. I'm a hairstylist that can also do the skin as well. Shaving, you know, anything I say from the neck up is where I'm responsible for. And then hands for camera, I always make sure they have, you know, moisturizer, because a lot of times men's hands are dry. So when you're talking on camera, you see it in 4K. That's just sort of part of it.

[B]

So I got a manicure yesterday just because I was seeing.

[A]

You knew you were seeing me.

[B]

No, I was seeing you. And I'm still looking at my fingernails and I'm like, all right, there it is. But thank you. So how did you get into it? I mean, I've never asked you this. Like, how did this start for you?

[A]

I have an interesting story. So I graduated from Boston College. And I remember before I went to college, my mom was a hairstylist back in the 60s and 70s. Put my dad through college, University of Miami, put him through law school, supported the family on her career, never went to college. And her dream was that her girls, my sister and I, had to go to a university. And not only did we have to go, we grew up in South Florida, but she believed we had to go to school in the Northeast. So I graduated Boston College. My sister graduated Villanova. And it was funny because when I was turning 18, about to leave for school, I'll never forget the story. My mom was in the bathroom putting on mascara, and I walk in and I'm like, mommy, I'm gonna be a hairstylist.

[B]

Wow. How old were you?

[A]

I was 18. And she took her mascara wand and looked at me and said, over my dead body you will go to college. And went back to the mirror and kept putting on her mascara. And I was like, oh. Because she was one. And what it was is it's not that she didn't want me to be a hairstylist. She wanted my sister and I to have the opportunities of going for an education that she didn't have.

[B]

Right. I completely understand.

[A]

It was remarkable journey. And so I stayed. Of course, I graduated. And after graduating BC, I came to New York, worked in corporate for 10 years, and finally, at the age of 30, I was like, I just don't want to do this anymore. I want to do hair. And I didn't know that, though, to be honest with you, I was sort of deep seated. And my uncle who came up, he was my mom's boss when she was 18 years old. They own salons together. He took me to the. The hair show in the Javits Center. My parents sat him down and said, you have to talk to her. She's miserable. I was so lost my. I didn't know what I wanted to be. I didn't have a passion. I just was sort of going through the motions of getting a paycheck, and I was doing very well. I was making six figures. I had an ira, a savings account, you Know, a retirement and, and at the age of 30, I left it all. I went to the hair show and it was like the angels, oh, they sang. And I saw, oh my gosh, this is what I want to do.

[B]

Oh, so when you showed up to a hair, to the hair show was when the light bulb went off in your head. By the way, giving your some credit here, first off, BC is an incredible school, right? That's, that's number one, two, that's four years to kind of just acclimate to life.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

Amelia, my daughter, just went away and I think on the third night she messages us and goes. She takes a picture of her laundry and she sends it to us. And she's like, would you be proud? I separated whites and darks and went off on this whole thing that I thought was completely adorable. But that is as much as I want her to get an education and I want her to live and experience life and understand that if she needs us, we're going to be there for her.

[A]

And that's exactly was our family's philosophy. And my mom, and my mom and my dad was very much an integral part of this. So my parents are high school sweethearts. They're 80 and 81 and they're still together. They're celebrating their 59 year anniversary this year and 65 or 66 together as a couple.

[B]

So they're on the same route as my parents. My parents met on the, on the staircase of Southampton College when they were 17 and they're both. My dad's, my dad's turning 80 in November. So we're like, we're like in the same.

[A]

And so, I mean, my dad was again, both of my parents, but I think because my mom did not have the experience that my dad, my sister, I had, she was just so adamant about it.

[B]

So do you feel like she had a little bit of a. Not, not a chip, but in a way a little bit of a regret in a way. She's like, I wish I wouldn't have that.

[A]

You know, I don't think so. I think that was her journey. I don't think she was necessarily her, her journey was to be a hairstylist. And she was brilliant at it and did. Excelled at it. And again, she gave her sister their first down payment on their house. She was the one making the money and all of her other siblings were Doctors and, and CPAs and went a different road. So she had a very successful career.

[B]

So you went to, so you went to this hair show. This, this light bulb went off and you started working with just normal people. What was your, what was your first celebrity break? I mean, I'm going to try. I don't like talking about celebrities a lot, but this is kind of part of your path and I want that into the whole entrepreneurial side, which we'll get to later on.

[A]

So I think my entrepreneurial career started. Earl, My dad is an entrepreneur and so I think it started very early on for me. And so I.

[B]

What did he do? I'm sorry, he.

[A]

It's funny, he was in the sporting goods industry and the store Champs.

[B]

Oh yeah.

[A]

He founded Champs back 50 years ago.

[B]

That's still around.

[A]

Still around. So he sold it in the 80s. And so that was sort of his claim to. I love. One of his stories is like Phil Knight came to him to sell Nike shoes back in. It's insane. It's a crazy.

[B]

You never told me that.

[A]

Yeah. You know, it's so funny. Gio said the same thing to me. Gio Benitez. We were, we were having this conversation, Tommy and Gio were. We were, we were with my parents. And he's like, you've never said that before. And.

[B]

No, that's a, that's a big, that's a big story.

[A]

It's so interesting because I never, I almost had this guilt of saying like, well, does my dad think I'm embarrassed by something? But that's not it at all. It's that the topic really never came up to share that story.

[B]

Do you also feel like maybe it was an identity thing because that's a successful chain of stores and so you're self made. But like, I.

[A]

No, I mean, my dad is an integral part of my business today. Yeah, I mean, I call, we talk every day and sometimes I'm like, oh, daddy, you know, like. And he'll just talk me through things. So it's funny because I've never been more proud of his accomplishments in his career. And he had the highs and the lows and then circle back again with the highs. But it was one of those things where when I thought about it and even now you're like, well, you never knew that. Well, it's because I just, I guess I've always been sort of private about my, you know, and I never, I've always had this feeling like I never want to seem like I'm bragging. And that has always been. I don't even know if it's an insecurity. I'm not sure exactly what it is, but I always felt like my work should speak for itself. When people ask me, what do you do? I say, I'm a hairstylist. I'm not just a hairstylist. You know, I'm really not like, I like, you go on national tv. I have my own company, I have my own product line.

[B]

I know you're way more. But the men's grooming was a platform.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

To elevate you to a level. And then you are one of the few people that have actually leveraged that platform and you've started, you know, you've become an entrepreneur.

[A]

But I also. It's funny because I've always been. I never want to be that person. Well, I do this and I do that and I do that. I just feel it's more like my work speaks for itself. And I think that has just sort of been the approach. But, you know, getting back to what my dad did, I think the entrepreneurial spirit was always a part of me because that's just what I grew up with. And, you know, when he sold it back in the 80s, he had over 100 plus stores.

[B]

And that's madness.

[A]

No, it's madness. His stories are fascinating. Fascinating.

[B]

Gotta get him on.

[A]

Can I tell you something?

[B]

I would. It's funny.

[A]

Adidas. Well, Adidas, or Adi Adi, whatever his last name was, he flew to Germany to talk to my dad. And literally my dad told this story. I was like, wait, I never heard this before. The Adidas, the tracksuit that became big in the 70s that only athletes are wearing to run track.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

Yeah. My dad sat with him, had a conversation. He's like, you know, you need to make these, like, looser and whatever. And he said they sat at the Commerce Room and he's like, oh, that's a really good idea.

[B]

That's like, revolutionary.

[A]

Yeah, but it's one of those things. Again, it's. It's just part of our conversation that becomes our family. But in ways you just. I'm like, wow, that's a really cool story, dad. That's inspirational on so many levels.

[B]

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[A]

So I started off and I'm sorry, I digressed there for a second.

[B]

No, it's fine.

[A]

This is fine. But at the age of 30, you know, most people already, like I said, I was making very good money. I had a career and I went back from a six figure salary into a salon at Tony. I've been very strategic with my career. Beyond strategic, right, Wrong or indifferent. I pivot really well. So I've made adjustments which has really been beneficial as I start my career over again at the age of 50 in my new company. So I basically went to Tony and Guy which was a stalwart in education and that's where I learned how to cut hair. My first year I made 12,500 dol at $6.50 an hour.

[B]

That's real.

[A]

And yes, I had a two bedroom apartment by myself in the Village.

[B]

You could afford a two bedroom apartment on that. I love it.

[A]

But I could before because I was making money.

[B]

You're making money.

[A]

And I was looking adorable and I had clothes and I was, you know, I mean, and next thing you know I'm like, oh my gosh, like should I walk home? Like, you know this one Tokens, you know, like get tokens.

[B]

Oh, I remember, I remember tokens. I remember tokens.

[A]

Oh my God, like I don't even know if I can. I mean like my parents were sending money. My uncle at the time, he shared an apartment with me. He never was there just so that I could afford to live because he was a CPA and he was going from New York and Louisiana and Florida. And so just, I think to help me out, he basically signed a lease so that I could still stay, you know, and kind of use it as for his business. But I went, oh, my God, what did I do? Like, I racked. I got. Went through every single dollar, all my savings, my ira, my retirement. Talk about debt. I racked up debt. But I always said, I'm gonna make it in this business. And so when I first started, it wasn't that I wanted to work with celebrities. I didn't know that at first, because back then, there were models on the covers of magazines. It had just started making that turn.

[B]

That's funny how you remember that pivot. Cause no, we're almost the same age. I'm 48.

[A]

So, like, I got a few years on you.

[B]

Yeah, but you don't look at.

[A]

I know, but you act like my older brother. I appreciate that. But. Yeah. So it hadn't quite shifted yet. So when I was. I got my chair, I switched salons. I started thinking, and I'll tell you how that happened. Tony and Guy had something called the photographic awards. And as an assistant, I submitted a picture, and I was a finalist. And I was like, well, this is really cool. And that's sort of where I found my interest in photo shoots. But back then, it was like editorial and fashion spreads and beauty pages. And I remember. I think my. This is actually a funny story. My first. I think my first shoot was in Harper's Bazaar. But if you remember, front of book, which was at the beginning, and then there'd be, like, the beauty, fashion, and then at the end, and the pictures were, like, the size of, like, a half a dollar. They were really tiny. And I couldn't believe, like, I was in Harper's Bazaar. And they would put your name in the gutter, which was, like, in the seam of the magazine. We had to kind of like, push it down to see it.

[B]

Flatten it out.

[A]

Yes, flatten it out.

[B]

It's like it's in the spine of.

[A]

Exactly in the spine. And I remember calling my mom, like, mommy. Mommy. Daddy. Daddy.

[B]

I made it.

[A]

I made it. I'm in Harper's Bazaar, and my mom goes and buys the magazine. And I'm like, page 17. And she, like, turns, and I said, do you see my name? And she's like, no. And I'm like, no, mom look like, oh. She's like, I don't see it. And couldn't see my name. And I was like, well, that's really upsetting. And then when I switched to the beauty and the fashion. And then I saw that their name was front of Paige, and I was

[B]

like, wow, I need to be there.

[A]

I need to be there. And so then I started on my own. I never had an agent until I made. So I started on my own. Cold calling publicists.

[B]

I love this. And saying I love this.

[A]

You know, I remember in the beginning it was like, hi, my name's Kristen Serafina.

[B]

I love this.

[A]

I would love to work with your celebrities. And they're like, who do you work with? I'm like, nobody. Click. And I did that until. Well, I should backtrack. When I was in the salon, my first real celebrity was Elizabeth Berkley in women's. So that's when I was doing women's hair. So she really was my. And to this day, we're still very close friends.

[B]

That's awesome.

[A]

And she was my sort of first that I did the Met Ball with her. I mean, and again, this was very new to me because it had just started changing over. And then I realized I wanted to go into men's. The men's space. And so that's.

[B]

Why do you. Cause that's unique. Right? You're a female, but you are the best at men's grooming.

[A]

Thank you. It sort of happened in a way on its own because I cut hair.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And so when you sort of, you know, I guess I sort of found a space that needed more of a.

[B]

And more and more frequent. Like, guys, I'll get my hair cut every. Don't laugh. I get it cut like every two to three weeks. Right. And you know, I'll shoot in. I'll get on the train sometimes and come in and see and get my hair cut. Because women, it's a bit different. My wife gets to cut.

[A]

How often.

[B]

How often do you get your hair cut?

[A]

I mean, it just depends on the hairstyle and.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And we can get away as hair colors a little more often sometimes with women. So I just sort of found this niche. I cold call publicist. A publicist gave me a shot. And it's funny, that publicist I still work with today and gave us one of our, at the time, biggest clients. And that was many, many years later. But, you know, it literally started with just the people that Nobody. The unknowns. And they just kept giving you more and more break.

[B]

Well, you were at the forefront of it. This is what's fascinating is that you just mentioned earlier the time where magazine covers went from models to celebrities, which is brilliant.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

This had to be around the time where a men's groomer, like, it wasn't really like guys getting their hair cut, that's one thing. But guys using, like I've come in for. You've, you've done every cover, you've done every cover that I've done, every muscle and fitness cover, Men's health, whatever it is, you have been there for me. And yeah, you know what? We're using makeup where you're, you're, you're going through my bushy eyebrows and, and just, you know, making sure my neck's clean and, and you're on set and you're sweating and you're coming over and you're dabbing me up with little cloths. Cause I got this Italian guido skin and all this, like, these are things that I just need your help with. But back, you know, rewind this story now 20 years and there wasn't a lot of men. Even now it's like, where's Kristen? I have a shoot. I need you here. I can't do it without you.

[A]

Yeah, I mean, it's been a really interesting time. And like I said, my journey was more women's. And really what catapulted me into the, truly into the men's space is that Pamela DePalma was a publicist for Camila Alves. Camila Alves was dating Matthew McConaughey. I was flown to LA to work with Camilla.

[B]

First trip that you were getting on a plane for.

[A]

Yeah. Really? Yes, it was, it was, yeah, it was for Camilla.

[B]

And that had been exciting, by the way.

[A]

It was so exciting. And I remember, I can't believe I was going to LA and I was working with this stunning model and we were in the bathroom of their house and who walks in but Matthew and asked for a haircut and single handedly changed my career like that. I cut his hair the next thing. I think it was the week after we were in Europe together. Like, just like that, it changed. And to this day, I still work with Matthew. I'm seeing him in a few weeks. I just cut his hair two weeks ago.

[B]

As much as it's about you being great at what you do, there was a documentary I watched called Hired Guns and Alice Cooper. It's all about the backup musicians. And Alice Cooper said a comment and I started laughing. He said, when one of your musicians goes down, they break an arm, they get sick. Unfortunately, people do pass. Things happen, right? He goes, there's like a, there's thousands of musicians out there that are phenomenal. They can all play, he goes. Then I dwindle it down to the people I want to go out and have a beer with. That goes down to a short list. Then I say to myself, who can I be on tour with for a year? And there's like 10 people. That's. That's part of your magic, is combining that perfect. I mean, your. Your skill set's unbelievable. I want to push that aside. But the temperament, I think that's a lot of where the gift comes from. Because working with these people, they have bad days, they're in tough environments, they're traveling, they're jet lag. They come in sometimes, they're on jobs they don't want to be at.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And you've got to come in, and you've got to immediately acclimate to where it is they are in that moment. And that's why I think you've been shining for as many years as you've been.

[A]

Thank you. And I think Donna, goes back to the term that you said that you hate, the term celebrity hairstylist or celebrity trainer. And it goes back to that because it is. People, you know, younger people come to me and say, well, how do you become a celebrity hairstylist? And the first thing is, I'm not a celebrity. And if you remember that, you'll have success in this career. So I always am very clear when I am working with my clients, I am not the celebrity. I am the hairstylist and groomer on the job for one responsibility only, and that's to take care of that client. And I think a lot of times what happens is people sort of blur the lines of. You fall. It's very easy to get excited by or enjoy the world they live in, because you're on private jets and you're doing things, you have access to things that you wouldn't have. And, you know, you're walking into super bowl, and you're just, you know. Right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like. Right. Red carpet.

[A]

And there's red carpet like you've never experienced before. You're experiencing it through their eyes. But the reality is, is I can't wait to get home to my world. Yeah, that's their world. And I think that if you're clear on that, which you and I both are, I think the longevity of our career continues because, once again, it's about me and my career, what I do. I'm the authority. Like, you're the authority in your space, and I am super clear on that.

[B]

And they're coming you in a pretty Much a vulnerable position. If you think about it, they are. They are talking to you about things that maybe they're not happy about. You know what? Got some more grays coming in. You know what? I'm balding here a little bit. I'm seeing this on camera. It's not, you know, they've got to be vulnerable, and they've got to immediately open up to you. And how you respond to them within those first few seconds, I believe sets the tone for whether you're going to be working with someone like McConaughey decades later. No, but it really is the truth. Because if you out of nowhere are like, oh, Matthew, I loved you, Magic Mike, in my opinion, like the chances of it being done. It's probably done because you just went from being a professional at what they're coming to you for to a fan.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And they need to trust you. And that's probably the number one thing I see with the majority of the people out there that want to get into your line of work, or I get the call all the time, or my line of work is they don't understand that we're all expendable. We really are.

[A]

No, you and I talked about this before.

[B]

We've talked about this. But it's a very valuable lesson. You are. The one thing that I've always valued is the fact that someone's bringing me in for a job, and I have to do that job well. But I also have to understand there's a line.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And. And I need to respect that line and give them their space. And I have to understand that if I decide to retire tomorrow, I'm replaced that day. And when you. When you establish that thought process in your head, you develop some humility.

[A]

100%. You know, we've spoken about this many times before, and, I mean, you really are only as good as your last job.

[B]

100%.

[A]

And, you know, does it occasionally, you know, you become a tad. When you work with someone for X amount of years, sometimes there is a little, like, gut punch when they stop working with you. And you think, oh, everyone. And you think, what did I do wrong?

[B]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And the majority. You and I've had this conversation many times. And sometimes you did nothing wrong. It's just life evolves. And I remember Joe Blacko, who was one of my bosses very early on in my career, a hairstylist. She owned a salon. She said to me, when a client leaves, it makes room for a new one. And I've always sort of kept that in the back of My head that it's ebb and flow, just like life ebb and flow. And when one sort of exits, it just makes room for someone new in my life. And, you know, we've been through this. I mean, I've known you for a long time, and we've had those times where like, oh, my God, like, I know this person's family.

[B]

Yeah, yeah. It's a gut punch.

[A]

It's a gut punch. And then you just say, you know what if I did do something wrong, I'm unaware of it. And I hope that at some point someone would let me know, because I always want to be better at what I do. But if I didn't, then it's really not about me. It's about me learning from experience, taking the wonderful things that I learned from that and sort of moving on to the next phase of my life.

[B]

But it's an important lesson.

[A]

So in.

[B]

In the moment. I remember the first time it happened to me. I was probably 28 years old. It was a massive celebrity. I worked with this person for about a year. We had an incredible relationship. I did a great job with him. And he went off, and then when he came back, he moved. Never heard from him. But I remember at the. At the time, I'm in my late 20s, I'm just starting my own business, and I'm saying to myself, did I do anything wrong? And I learned to realize that it wasn't. It could have been. Do I know the reason? Maybe not. But it could have been that he moved, Right? He's not there anymore. It could be that maybe he just needs to see a new face. Maybe every time someone does a project, they need to see something. And I've run into him years later, and we have a good relationship, and it's fine. And I'm actually happy it happened because you gotta understand how to deal with that stuff.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And it makes you tougher, and it makes you realize that this is a business. And just like you or someone else likes to go try a different restaurant, it doesn't mean you don't have a loyalty to that one restaurant you love. But, yes, you want to get different food sometimes. You want a different look, you want

[A]

a different haircut to realize that the original restaurant is actually the best.

[B]

Could be.

[A]

And it's funny, because that just happened. Someone with the same experience didn't work with for many, many years. And now I'm working together again. And it's just. It's life. And when you come back, it comes back.

[B]

It's a Good feeling when that comes back. It's happened to me a few times recently in my community. You don't see people, people. And I know where they're like. And sometimes you don't know. Like a time I took a break, you know, unfortunately, I got sick or I lost my mind. You're like, oh my God, I'm so sorry. And, and you just realize people are, are busy in life. So getting into that, I want to pivot to managing personalities. Because even though, listen, I'm a, I'm. I'll always be a coach at heart, I'm an entrepreneur. You'll always be a men's groomer, you're an entrepreneur. But part of what got us to being able to be in business and being able to pivot and being malleable is managing personalities. It is interesting how, you know, most people are not looking at you as a master at managing personalities, but you, you do. You have to day, day in and day out, going to different jobs, different locations, some people a bit privileged, other people are the easiest human beings to work with. Have. Do you feel like that was something you were born with or do you feel like that's something that you adapted over time?

[A]

That's a great question. And I think it's sort of a two part question. I think the older and wiser I get, it becomes easier. I think that the way that I have managed that, I think it really comes from my parents. They just have always instilled for me confidence and belief in myself. We were never allowed to say the word can't. We were never allowed to say the word, you know, I won't do it. We just were never allowed to. So I think part of it is belief in myself. And I think for me, when I am on a job, I always just, I'm me. Like, I don't alter myself or someone. If someone is frazzled, I don't get frazzled. I stay me because I believe. And this has probably come with experience, you know, maybe early on in my career, because I didn't know as much, I might have gotten a little bit more nervous. Whereas now, if you want to freak out, have at it. That's you, man. Like you do you. But I'm gonna do me. And you brought me here for this reason is for me to be who I am and me to use my expertise and my skills to better suit your experience. And so I just sort of let people do them. I stay calm. And I've noticed that over time, if someone is having a nervous moment or they're excited or they're angry, whatever they are, the calmer you become, it brings them back quicker. It brings them back way quicker. And you know, I tend to just stay. I mean, you know, where we go, we talk like nonstop. When I'm on a job, it's not about me. No, it's how can I make that experience for that person the best experience for them for whatever they're about to face. And I think I'm really clear on that. That has probably come with age. And I don't say age isn't more maturity and just experience and wisdom. You know, I just think anyone that's young early on, I think you get sort of enamored by who the person is or what they do or wanting

[B]

to do a good job.

[A]

Wanting to do a job. Whereas I always do a good job because every time I try to do better, I mean, I could tell you there are jobs that I've done and I look at it and I go, no one in the world would ever know what was wrong with that picture or what was wrong with that.

[B]

It's special.

[A]

I will see something. I'm like, ugh, I can't believe I missed that one strand of hair. Oh, if I had only done a little different or why didn't I catch that flyaway? And no one would see it, but I see it. So then I say, okay, next time when I go in, note to self, make sure to watch this or note to self when that person turns this way, you know, or like now to the point where I know lighting's on different shows. So like, I know the lighting is hot at this show. I know the lighting when he sits in this chair, looks this way. I know that you know, from this angle, the camera comes in this way. So that's experience. Whereas you would never know that, you know, going in. In the beginning, it's more.

[B]

After repetition, you can also getting back to the personality piece. You could see it when they're walking in. So when you've worked with someone that long and they, I mean, I remember at my club there was almost. You come off the elevator and it's pushed away from the gym and you'd walk around the front desk and then there was a 200 foot long kind of Runway to the other end and probably at about the 120 foot mark where the locker room's on the left hand side. And I can't tell you how many people would come, celebrity, non celebrity, it doesn't matter. They walk around that turn.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And just by the way they're walking, I wouldn't even have to see their facial expression. I'd be like, oh, boy, we got our work cut out for us now. In the beginning of the career, maybe it was a little more, how you feeling? You're right.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

I might ask that one time. And the second they answer me, like, fun. Okay. That's what we're dealing with. Okay, no problem.

[A]

Great.

[B]

Let's go. This is what we're doing, and it's all business. I don't. I literally have to take the emotions and put it aside and say to myself, this person's having a moment. They're coming to me to train. If it was that bad, they wouldn't be coming to me to train. And my job is to allow them to leave there in that hour, whatever amount of time it is, saying, I'm in a better place. And typically, if you deal with it the right way, I would normally find that within 15 minutes I could start cracking them a bit.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

And seeing that they kind of come back to earth and then they're suddenly like, I've had them. Where are you all right? Don't you know?

[A]

I'm fine.

[B]

What's up? Sorry, man. I got this going on. And blah, blah, blah, blah. All right, listen here to train. But, like, if you need a vent. Not telling you I have the answers, but happy to listen. And if you want my opinion, I'll give it, but, you know, feel free. And then they'll. A lot of times they unload, sometimes they don't. But always at the end of that session, they end up leaving hugging you, and you are in the exact same position because you're giving them back that confidence and that feeling. And they might begin because they get in and out of your chair sometimes quick. It could be within five minutes. It could be a half an hour. You don't know. I've seen men tell. Shoot with you once. You're, like, removing hair. We have that funny picture of me.

[A]

We do.

[B]

Oh, my God, Chris on the back. And if we could pull this picture up, it's hysterical. But there's a picture of me, like, bent over a table, and Chris sits behind me with clippers. And it just. It looks a little interesting. You could. You could form your own conclusion on it.

[A]

Well, no, let's just tell truthfully. He was doing a cover shoot to show skin, and he had a few random hairs on my back that maybe I missed that. He. You know, I mean, he just. It would have.

[B]

So she's behind me shaving My back. And I look in the mirror and I'm bent over this table, and Kristen's behind me going like this, and you can't see where her hair is.

[A]

You have no idea what's happening.

[B]

And it looked a little.

[A]

It did.

[B]

Interesting.

[A]

Very.

[B]

Eric's back there right now. Like, strike this from the podcast.

[A]

Yes, it did look very interesting, but that just goes to show, like, the attention to detail.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I mean, could that have been taken out in Photoshop? Of course. But that's one of those things I go back to that I see now many years later. Like, it's the details, and that just comes with experience. Could I very easily just feel like, hey, go to. Hey, guys, make sure. But I don't want to put my job on someone else in post, meaning it's not up to that person to remember to remove, you know, this. Because the groomer didn't, you know, shave it or tweeze it or, you know, didn't pat down the shine. It's my responsibility. So I'm, you know, I think that, again, comes with wisdom versus age. I like to call it wisdom.

[B]

It's fascinating how many entrepreneurs I've met with that, you know, get to a certain level of their life, which is a level of success. Like you said, you were not doing men's grooming and you were making six figures. And then what do you do? You take a couple steps down to then get into something where you weren't making any money, and then you build it back up to this level that's special. Then out of nowhere, you decide to come out with this product called it's got the greatest name ever. And I'm gonna give it a plug called the Best Pace. And I'm saying that because I use it. It's in my hair now. Tommy and Gio use it. Yes. I'm admitting this in public. If they get mad at me. They won't.

[A]

They won't.

[B]

My son, at a young age, used to come in during Christmas time. We have this day called Christmas Eve Eve, which obviously it would be December 23, the day before Christmas Eve. And my son and I would go in as Mel and Amelia would go do the lady shopping, and Donnie and I would go pick up some gear, and we would always get haircuts with you. And Donnie at like 7 years old is sitting there putting product in my hair, and he got so obsessed with it. There was actually a moment where we were down at. In Nashville at a bunch of my buddy's.

[A]

Remember this?

[B]

Henrik Lundquist, who is One of our guests and George Paros, who's going to be a guest. These are ex NHL players, and my son is in George's house with a whole row of NHL players from, like, Brett Hole to James Neil. And Neil turns him and goes, Donnie. Like, seriously? Donnie was, like, 8 years old. He's like, how do you. How do I put this stuff in my hair? And Donnie's sitting behind him styling his hair at 8 years old. And the next thing you know, guys were showing up to the house with their hair was dry, going, well, where's your son? He's got to do my hair right now because you instructed him how to do it. Those are memories that I have with Donnie, and that's because of you. But I got sidetracked a bit. But you decide to start a hair product line. Yes, a men's grooming hair product line. What drove you to want to do this? I mean, it's exceptional. Thank God you did.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

But tell me about it.

[A]

Thank you. So that's a really interesting story. And it goes back to the pandemic where life changed for everyone and you reassess life. And I didn't work dawn for, like, two years almost. I mean, because our clients were really working. They didn't really. You know, some were going off to movies and shooting, and, you know, you were COVID testing every day. It was just a different time. And, you know, I was at the peak of my career pre Covid. You know, I was supposed to be on a world tour, like, the week that Covid hit, and it shut down. So, you know, and everyone was like, oh, we'll give it two weeks, we'll give it a month. And next thing you know, a year later, no one worked. And so it was a time to reassess. And I had always said I would never have my own product line. I just was. And it goes back to my earlier statement when we first started is I've been very strategic with my career. I started off. Later I became a hairdresser at 30. I knew I wanted to go into, you know, cutting hair. I specialized from there. I went into the editorial world. At that point, I realized celebrities were on the covers. Then I dabbled in the celebrities. Then at that point, blogging became big. And then I started a blog because Cosmo picked it as a top blog. And so then I was blogging for a little while. And so it's just been sort of this thing. And, you know, I had said I wanted to be on qvc, and then I got myself on qvc. And so I've just been like, this is.

[B]

Which is tough, but it's. That's.

[A]

I sold out first time. TSV. That's the hardest thing I ever done.

[B]

I completely shit the bed.

[A]

Did you?

[B]

Yeah, completely shit. No, no, no, no, no. Like implosion. No, it wasn't. No, I didn't mess up. Not to skip, but this is actually an interesting story. I got brought onto this company called the Body, which was like a rolling device. It looked like a car, these big black wheels. And when you detach two of them, it looks like something else. And use your imagination. And so I go in there and this was like a therapy device where people use it because their backs, you know, tight and uncomfortable. And I got in and I went to QVC school and had to go through the whole process in Pennsylvania. And we go on and the guy beforehand, like, I launched P90X. I'm like, yeah, this isn't a P90X product. This is a rolling device. People are going to lay on their back and literally paddle their feet. And it, its work. It's actually a pretty brilliant device. Too expensive. They didn't make it or I don't know what the company's doing now. Let me get, let me leave it at that. But I end up. Before I go on, the guy goes, can you do like push ups with it? And I go, yeah. He goes, show me. And I show him. He goes, wow, that's awesome. Because can you do an ab rollout with that? I go, yeah. I said, but please, like, I know the demographic. Like, I don't think this is going to work well. And we get out there and the first thing he does is he goes, don, look at the camera. Like, me, show him your biceps. And I'm like like, holy, I can't believe this guy just said. And I'm like, just like bicep. He goes, show an ab wheel roll out. And I'm like, right there. I'm like, oh my God. Like, this is, this is done. And I do a full body roll out and by then they're in my Mac. Like, you're done.

[A]

Oh my God.

[B]

We sold like 20 or 30 units. And I literally drove home that night and I remember pulling off at a Wendy's and eating. I think I ordered, I ordered like 4.99 double stacks, a large fry, a Diet Coke and a Frosty. And I ate like I was going to the electric chair. And I was literally in a parking lot by myself, like eating these burgers. And everyone's like, you did great. I'm like. It was a complete implosion.

[A]

It's a hardest.

[B]

My career is over and I just hung up the phone.

[A]

It is. No one understands how hard I did. Exactly what you did. I did. Except I.

[B]

But you did well.

[A]

I had a really good. But I didn't. I didn't at first what happened with me. They put me on what's called the Today special value, which is drawn 24 hours. Right. I'd never been on TV. Never been on TV. I took the class. So now it's very different. There's three cameras. Which one you're supposed to look at. Someone's yelling in your ear. You have the hostess that is doing what they're supposed to do. It is the hardest thing.

[B]

It's live.

[A]

It's live.

[B]

There's no reruns.

[A]

You have model. I had models. And literally, I go on the first show and I tank. Tank. Now, at this point, this company's relying on me to sell these products for every hour that it was because we had. When you first saw we were going more at a technical element versus the hair element, meaning, like the styling, whatever. So it wasn't relating to.

[B]

You weren't emotionally connecting, really, with people.

[A]

It wasn't because we were trying to hit the technicals, like, the temperature, and they don't care. They want to know how to make it look pretty. How do I look?

[B]

How do I look? How do you feel?

[A]

And so. But what happened was, is the host, who was their number one, liked me, and she is the one that saved me and said to the. Keep her on. Just keep her on, not me. And so. Yeah. And so they brought me back on. And what I chose to do is normally, like, when you do a 24 hour, you go to sleep and then you skip a couple of shows. I was like, absolutely not. I stayed up every hour. And when I had to go on just for the practice. The practice, the practice. And every show, I would get a little more confident. A little more confident, even though serious.

[B]

That's how that was born for you. Everyone's got their story.

[A]

And then when the morning came, there was one of the hostess who was Southern, and she talked like this. And she said, now, Chris, what do you do with that iron? And she led the dance. And she said, you told me about the temperature. And I was like, temperature. And I would go. And then she'd say, now show me a curl. And I would call.

[B]

Oh. So she was good?

[A]

She led the dance.

[B]

Yeah, she was good.

[A]

And then when that happened, I was like, I get it now.

[B]

That's gold. Yeah.

[A]

And when I went back, because after 24 hours, I ended with the first hostess that I started with. I think we sold over a million dollars worth of flat irons in eight minutes. Oh, my God, it went unbelievable. And when that happens, you are just like, I mean, you're on. We sold out. And they're like, it's on back order somebody. And you're like, woo. You're dancing. And it was incredible.

[B]

I don't think I sold enough product to pay for all the Wendy's that I ate on the way home. I think it was pretty bad.

[A]

So we both had experiences. I think that probably, if anything, that I learned from that is that just adapting as quickly as possible because the host has their one thing that they have to do. And I understand that, but. But what I also learned is you still have to sort of do what you do and find the happy medium.

[B]

But you know what's fascinating about talking about this right now? Even me talking about and giving you my story getting exciting. No, no. I'm happy it happened, of course. And if I sold a million dollars in product, trust me, I would have been thrilled.

[A]

We sold 2. 2.5, of course. Yeah. It was unbelievable. But we started off flat, like I said. I just was very fortunate that someone believed in. In me. And she really did believe in me and kept me on.

[B]

And you'll never forget her for that.

[A]

We still talk.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

She's amazing, of course.

[B]

Right. But. But that's. That's the fascinating piece, I think about success and failure is that there's. There's. There's a lot of positive out of both.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And I am actually that. That failure for me, in that moment really triggered something in my head when it came down to. And I'm not saying I wasn't prepared, but I was prepared. But there was a. Now it's more about resilience and more about bouncing back and realizing that it makes a good story. It is part of my journey and my path, and I think. So now Covid comes around, you tell yourself you're never gonna launch a product, and suddenly you're like, oh, I'm just gonna start a men's grooming line that's gonna kick ass. Like, let's just tell me about that

[A]

to bring it back again. So you and I.

[B]

No, no, you and I.

[A]

This is what we do.

[B]

It's not a digression.

[A]

It's.

[B]

It's a lateralization.

[A]

I love that.

[B]

Yeah, that's Charlie's line, Charlie.

[A]

I like that term. So pandemic happens. I'm not really working. I'm not really sure what I'm gonna do. A gentleman that I had used as hair paste for many, many years, been on six continents with me. Every time I'd get a quote, it would do really well. Because again, back then, there were the magazines, a lot of them, and it was just my favorite hair paste. And just like anything, he reassessed his life, and his son sort of had a very strong impact on him, and he wanted to sell the company. And it was just an opportunity to buy a company. And so I bought the company. I renamed, rebranded, kept the formulas. I tweaked it very much since. But, you know, worked with chemists and stuff like that.

[B]

Great packaging.

[A]

Thank you. I mean, I really do.

[B]

Perfect for travel.

[A]

Go back to the heroes, which were my hair. I have, like, 20 formulas. I have skin care, hair care. And I just sort of. I did some, I guess you'd say, soul searching when we were going through this. And I said, you know what? Let me. Let me sort of pull back to the heroes, the ones that I love the most. And I mean, Ben is. Ben Miller is who I bought the company from. And, I mean, he just did a remarkable job with this brand, and I love and adore him, and he was. I still consider him, you know, part of our family. And. And what he did was phenomenal. And I think, just like anything, it was his time to sort of transition, and it was my time to sort of take over this new role in my life, which was owner of a hairpaste company. And we manufacture from raw materials to finished goods. We're two and a half years old. So, you know, 2020 was the end. It was really 2021. 2022 is when I bought the company and we launched it. So I feel like the first year I learned how to make hair paste, I really was a manufacturer, like, you know, got rid of, you know, everything from his brand, the previous brand, and really started to try to understand what it is and how to make it and what it is to be, I guess, a manufacturer. And that was year one. Year two was getting business, which was. And I'm really proud of this, Dawn. Like, we're a team of five really small. I like to say, you know, we lean. Lean.

[B]

We're running lean, is what I say.

[A]

Small and mighty. We wear multiple hats. We rob Peter to pay Paul because we are startup.

[B]

I know what that is.

[A]

But with that being said, I have such an incredible People around me that support me in every way. So year two was we brought on Nordstrom, Bloomingdale's and I remember Nordstrom, by the way. That was amazing. Yeah, we're in 40 doors in Nordstrom and we're adding more. We just launched online with Bloomingdale's. I mean it takes a. It's funny. Cause people think, oh, you're in Bloomingdale's, you're in Nordstrom. It takes like nine months to get in, you know, and then when you

[B]

get in, you gotta sell because it's not moving off the shelves. They're gonna yank you. Exactly, yeah. It's pressure.

[A]

It's a lot of pressure. And then we, we launched a massive collaboration for the first ever an anime in the hair care space with Yu Gi oh. So what's crazy to me is that Nike launched their collaboration like five days before we did. And I'm like, wait, what Nike? And then you have the best pace. It's this very unknown brand that is, like I said, small and mighty. And here we are following five days later with a launch with Yu Gi oh. Yu Gi oh is a multi billion dollar anime. Incredible character. Incredible. It's incredible. And so you go through these things of like, whoa, we, you know, I have like I said this Tom, it's Doug, it's Tom, it's Alex, it's Ivanka. And you know, there's a few other people within our world that you know, sort of help out, but that jump in and out and Pete. And then all of a sudden you're like, whoa, how are we all doing this? You know, like who? Like at one point it's funny, we have a spreadsheet and everyone sort of has their somewhat responsibilities. And you look at it, I'm like, well, why is he doing that? And that doing that? Because that's not even in the world. But we all just do it, you know, I mean I literally just. My warehouse is in Florida. I just flew down because we had to make. We sold out a point product because I didn't anticipate a Nordstrom order coming in. When it did. My projected out for X date to make again because we batch manufacture. So you know, we make X amount of times a year and we're small. And again we're a small little company today. And so I didn't project for that because I didn't see it coming. And all of a sudden you're like, oh my God, I can't tell my customers we're sold out. So I literally hop on a Plane, you know, leave my three year old kid. Doug's going through his health stuff and, and you just do what you gotta do. So in two days we make thousands of products. Start calling all my friends in Pete's wife, hey Shannon, can you come Pete who's coming over to help out. And you do what you have to do.

[B]

And no one ever hears these. Part of the stories, right? Because what you spoke about is. And I immediately started thinking about when you had to start calling publishers or editors and you're calling managers of people and the amount of rejection that comes with that. One of my favorite lines that I heard years ago, I think it was Bill Gates who said, said it was if content is king, then distribution is the kingdom.

[A]

Right.

[B]

And that's kind of in content social world. If content is king, then distribution is the kingdom. You can have the greatest product on the planet.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

And if no one knows about it, you ain't gonna sell it.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It's like you have to create this addition like you were cutting hair and you were men's grooming and you became an expert at this and then you had to get, get become an expert at dealing with people. Then you had to become an expert at managing personalities and managing agents. Then you had to learn about product. And the interesting thing about your product is that it's not a one size fits all with the hair product. It's according to color. So like I wear orange, the orange color. Or Donnie might wear blue, right?

[A]

He does wear blue.

[B]

Donnie does wear blue. I remember. And this is all in accordance to your, your hair texture, maybe how oily your hair is, how it glides, how it holds the look that you're looking for. It is really catered to the individual. The now you're jumping on planes as you have a three year old and your partner is like you said, dealing with some health issues and flying down to Florida to go work out of a distribution plant. Yes, it is. These are things people just think success. You know, they see the I'm going to name people I worked with the Ryan Reynolds or the Calvin Klein's and they think, oh, this just immediately happened. Every single person that I've spoken to, every single person at a level has that moment of oh my God, I was either thought I was unhirable or I wasn't going to have a career anymore.

[A]

100%. I mean, I look at that now. I mean here I am at this stage of my career. You know, I was at the height of my career in this celebrity sort of, sort of as we call it, that world of, of grooming. I buy a company, I start from zero, nobody knows us. Never had a publicist. I shouldn't say that we had a friend of mine was helping in the very, very beginning. Never spent an ad in, in sale in advertising. I've self funded the whole thing. You know, family and friends have, you know, sort of helped out along the way.

[B]

You didn't have the luxury of being able to do those things.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

You had to bootstrap it and figure it out on your own. And you're still doing it. It's doing very well. And actually thank you, Chris. On the back end. I never do product placement here, but we are. I want to put a link up any. Anyone who wants to buy some type of men's hair care grooming product for their partner, I suggest it's a great gift. Holidays are coming around. I would throw it, you know, thank you. Do an order and throw it in there. But I know like men are thinking a lot more about this now. You know, we just had a friend of ours recently was like, oh, hey, I'm now using different types of face moisturizers between bed. I'm using eye cream Now I'm 48. I'm starting to see lines come in a little bit. You want to take care of yourself.

[A]

Here's what you know, it's really interesting. So and I have been trying to figure out just for our own as a brand, you know, the way that I see what I do as a hairstylist and I always call it my magic mirror and I find it fascinating. And you probably deal with this as well. I've never had a client sit in my chair when they first walk in and say they look in the mirror and say, I look good today.

[B]

I'm happy in where I am.

[A]

Never said that. They sit in the chair and they look in the mirror and I always say like, like getting your hair cut is the only time in life you will sit in a chair and look in the mirror for an hour. It pulls out every insecurity of every person, no matter who you are in what walk of life. Because you're forced to look at yourself and there's no other time. You get up in the morning, you get ready, boom, you five minutes, ten minutes, whatever it is, it's quick. And you're, you know at a million things.

[B]

You're texting, you're talking and you're doing that by yourself.

[A]

Yes.

[B]

When you're doing those things now you're dealing with a set of Eyes.

[A]

Now you're in my chair. You're looking at yourself. And now I'm behind you, because that's where I'm looking into the mirror. And so I call my magic mirror. My responsibility is to look in the mirror and see the things that you don't. Because, again, I've never had anyone sitting in the chair and be like, I love my cheekbones. My lips look good today. I love my eye color. They don't. They say, oh, my God, I've gained 10 pounds. I'm going through a divorce. My hair's thinning. Oh, look at this pimple. Oh, my neck is. I mean, the wrinkle. That's what they do. Because. Because I do it myself. When I said I just had my hair colored yesterday, I was like, oh, my God, if I could only gain the last 15, you know, or lose the last £15 or. And so you just. It's inevitable I'm gonna find things I don't like versus what I do like. So my responsibility is to find the things that the hair will. You know, hair is an accessory you wear every day, and it should always compliment your face. So what I try to do behind the chair is give them that confidence when they leave my chair, because I've taken what doesn't work work in their haircut or their style, and I've created it so that they see what I see. Meaning. And I'm getting into a little bit technical here. But I always say, like, if you think of hair as the ends or arrows. So like on a woman, if you have a fringe or a sweeping bang that pulls out the eye, if you have a bob, it's a jawline. If you have face framing, it opens the neckline or the lip area, so it points towards things. So if a man has, let's say, thickness around the sides of his hair, but he's thinning or, well, it ends up showing more recession versus that's where the weight line is on the side. So you want to take it shorter. So it's those sort of educational conversations that I have to look in the mirror and say, hey, listen, let's think about this. If you take this shorter, it's actually going to give the optical illusion that your hair is thicker. So what I'm trying to do with my own company, the best pace, and I'm going to plug my own company.

[B]

No, do it. I want it. I want it.

[A]

Is that what my pace does is exactly what you've been saying. It gives you of confidence. And so I know that all the Great things about it. It's organic, it washes out easily. It's, you know, comes out with water. It's. It's got all the right ingredients. It's everything that it's. I mean, it's a wonderful product as far as for your hair, the benefits of it. But it's more than that because men especially, or even women, yes, some people really care what the products do. Or is it organic or. Or is it chemical free or does it cruelty free? And that is important. We have all that. But really, how does it make you feel? What confidence does it get you? And that's something that I am really trying to sort of sort out. I know how to do it behind a chair because you're in my mirror. But how do I portray that in my product line?

[B]

Something that most people wouldn't think about when it comes down to a men's grooming line. Right. And now, as we're all aging, there's things that we think about differently in our mid to late 40s than we were thinking about in our mid to late twenties. You just thinking differently. And there is going to be. And I'm. Very rarely have I met anyone that doesn't have this. There is going to be a decline in the sense of, like, how you feel. Man, I look like I've said it. I've said it to. There's certain days I wake up and I look at myself, I'm like, man, I look old. I never said that in my 20s. Not that I don't have confidence, but I'm recognizing that I look tired or there was bags under my eyes or something going on. On. It is important to me that I feel good about not only how I feel, but how I. How I look, because that's a very normal thing to want to have. And you know what? There's so many things that we can do out there nutritionally. Exercise. You and I have worked a lot on exercise together. We've worked a lot on nutrition. We both have different things going on in our bodies as we're aging, and this is all an adjustment. So why not not take that same focus with something that I think is very controllable? The moisturizer you put on your face, the hair product you put in your head. I think it's fascinating and it's. It's great to see more people waking up to these sort of things. They're really more waking up to. This is a wellness product, right? Like, you were really in the. Well, it's the men's grooming space. But it is skirting that line of wellness because if it's going to make someone feel good, it's confident.

[A]

I like to say, for me, it's confidence in jar.

[B]

Right.

[A]

That's what this. That's what I believe my product does.

[B]

Right.

[A]

You use it and you feel confident. You feel the best that you can that possible day when you leave, when you look in the mirror, you feel your best, and that's what it does for you. Now, here's what's really interesting about men's. Men's products are men's, is that 50% of women buy for men. Yeah, right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So it's a statistic. And Crosswalks New York is a marketing company that I work with very. Before I even bought the company that did a huge market research research. And I think the number is like 48% of women buy for men.

[B]

Right.

[A]

In the grooming space. So really, a lot of men will just use whatever their significant other tells them to wear.

[B]

Right.

[A]

And so for me, I say, well, I want you to look your best. Right. So I'm going to provide you with the solution is here. But what is also very interesting is that I always like to say women shop, members buy. A woman will shop around and look around. You guys know what they want. You go in, you get it, you get out. And the other thing with, with grooming and I think social media has truly changed the course of how men see themselves. I believe this. There's no study on this. It's just what I believe doing what my job is, is that now that we are taking a million selfies a day, you're starting to see things that you wouldn't have seen before.

[B]

Right.

[A]

Wrinkles, gray recession, stubble, whatever it may be.

[B]

Ingrown hairs and the quality of cameras that we're using now are a bit different than what we may have seen years ago. Maybe you're capturing from angles that you normally wouldn't.

[A]

Lighting light.

[B]

Exactly.

[A]

And the other thing is that as a, as females, we have been searching for the fountain of youth since birth. Men don't typically realize you'll have a wrinkle and say, oh, I need eye cream. You should have been using eye cream 20 years ago.

[B]

100%.

[A]

Right. You and I had this conversation 15 years ago when I gave you eye cream.

[B]

I was using it 15 years ago.

[A]

I still have that, but you know what I'm saying? So, like, there's this realization. Men will discover recession when they're receding. They will discover ingrown hairs once they've had an ingrown hair. So it's just a very interesting way how this younger generation is identifying with it.

[B]

They're getting smarter.

[A]

Like Donnie already does it all.

[B]

Don. I was laughing the other day because I walked into his bathroom and he had moisturizer on the counter for his face.

[A]

Of course he did.

[B]

And he's like uses certain soaps and he has the things that he likes and that's part of his, he's become very routine oriented. I wonder where he gets that from. But you know it is fascinating now to see how we are smarter people are even their thought process right. Like I'm noticing people are drinking less, they're more younger kids are more health conscious. You know it's, it's, this is the direction. It's, it's a good direction. But yeah. Getting back to the social media piece, I do believe everyone always knocks social media. I think it's a wonderful thing if it's used for the right reasons and for the, and for the right way. Listen Kristen, I'm going to start calling you I, I, I'm done with the celebrity hairstylist thing is gone. I'm literally, I think I'm going to coin you as the strongest woman in men's grooming.

[A]

Oh, thank you.

[B]

Because there's so much that you do. You are, you're an incredible support system to Doug.

[A]

Thank you.

[B]

You are an incredible mother with your three year old daughter. You are a, you're an entrepreneur, you're a businesswoman and what I respect as much of an incredible human you are but the thing I really keep respecting about you is your grittiness and your ability to level up in situations when people crumble and they just want to give up. And we've had a lot of discussions, things that are private we're not going to talk about but if everyone on the planet right now knew the fight and the type of person you are, this will be the best product in the world but it will become the best product in the world tomorrow. And I'm honored to call you a friend and I love you to death and Melissa loves you to death and my kids love you to death and only great things for you guys. And listen, I also want to thank Christian Ponder over at the Post. This place is awesome, isn't it?

[A]

It's incredible.

[B]

It's like a we work for professional. I always say we work for professional athletes. They're going to have call it something else because this place is incredibly special. I want to thank the Blind Nil team Matt Eric, Chris, everyone over here. I mean, I know Joanna and Chip Gaines have been incredible friends and they've been, they put me on a pedestal and their support is. Is just, it's incredible. And I'm just having fun being able to bring people on that I love. It's not about social media. It's not about recognition and how popular someone is. I the first year I'm going to bring on my favorite people with great stories and the common theme is that they're resilient and they every person has gotten kicked in the face, maybe has almost been unhirable or have lost someone or have lost their bi and they keep coming back with a level of success which I think is the main takeaway. So I just want to thank you for coming on and thank everyone for listening and can you just let everyone know where they can find you? Social media.

[A]

Thank you. My social media handles are Arafino says and at the best paced. And Don, thank you for being. I mean I've always called you my big brother even though I am a little older. But what you've done for me, not only as a friend but as a brother, appreciate it. It means the most and it's been an honor to be on your show. It has been.

[B]

Thanks. Thanks. Thanks.

[A]

The views, information or opinions expressed in the series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Chip and Joanna Gaines. By no audio nor Magnolia Monster Energy.

[B]

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[B]

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