Building Confidence With World-Class Photographer Peter Hurley

Summary

Stronger with Don Saladino: "Building Confidence With World-Class Photographer Peter Hurley"

Air Date: October 28, 2025
Host: Don Saladino
Guest: Peter Hurley (Headshot photographer, coach, founder of Headshot Crew)

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Episode Overview

In this lively, heartfelt conversation, Don Saladino welcomes celebrated photographer and entrepreneur Peter Hurley to discuss a topic that transcends photography: building real, lasting confidence. While Peter is renowned for creating some of the world’s most compelling headshots and for his “Headshot Crew” photographer community, the core discussion dives much deeper. Together, Don and Peter unpack how confidence is built, the profound impact of self-image on every area of life, and why most people struggle to see themselves in a positive light—whether they’re in front of a camera, leading a company, or just walking into a gym. Throughout, the conversation is practical, motivational, and peppered with both laughter and hard-won wisdom.

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Key Topics & Insights

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1. Peter Hurley’s Unconventional Path: From Sailor to Photographer

• [04:31] Grew up sailing and had no idea what his career would be: “I always envied people that knew what they wanted to do… Now I look back and I’m glad I didn’t know. I would have never turned out like this.” (Peter Hurley, 05:46)
• [07:15] Was training for Olympics as a sailor, which led to modeling gigs with DKNY and eventually major campaigns like Ralph Lauren.
  • Serendipity and opportunity: missing a modeling job almost changed his life, but a second chance set him on a direction he could never have planned.
• [10:14] Emphasizes the value of saying “yes” and acting on opportunity, sharing a story where he urged his daughter to attend a fashion show in Paris without hesitation:

  "If you don't jump on that...in my mind, there was no choice but to send her and get her over there.” (Peter, 10:14)

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2. Lessons From Failure, Resilience, and Redefining Strength

• [06:16] Academic and athletic setbacks, from almost failing out of college to missing Olympic qualification—Peter’s message is that failure can be a catalyst for growth if you stay open and adaptable.
• The value of mentors: Bruce Weber (iconic photographer) and Bob Proctor (personal growth legend) were transformative influences.

  “I met [Bob Proctor], and he’s like, why aren’t you training for the Olympics?” (Peter, 11:12)

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3. The Hidden Demands of Modeling: Confidence Tested & Forged

• [15:00] The modeling industry humbles everyone—casting rooms full of super-fit, super-confident people test the ego and resilience.

  “If you do not have a stomach for it, don’t do it.” (Don, 15:04)

• Both Don and Peter recall doing odd, even embarrassing gigs to make ends meet—building humility and a sense of humor about themselves.

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4. Becoming the “Facial Conveyance Strategist”: Psychology Behind the Headshot

Why Most People Hate Photos of Themselves—and How Peter Reverses That

• [27:25] Peter describes his approach as “facial conveyance strategist”—his superpower is “tricking” or coaching people into expressing confidence and approachability.

  “I see the apprehension... Most people are coming to me for a headshot. If you’re going to put your headshot out there, it’s gotta represent your personal brand. And your personal brand is not apprehensive, hopefully.” (Peter, 27:59)

• Cameras “strip away a layer” and reveal or erode confidence, so Peter’s process is about rebuilding it on the spot.

The “Squinch” and the Science of Confident Expression

• [29:06] Peter’s viral technique: “squinching”—narrowing the distance between the lower pupil and eyelid to convey confidence over apprehension.

  “Squinching is narrowing the distance between your lower pupil and your eyelid. And that conveys confidence.” (Peter, 29:51)

• The Tyra Banks “smize” (smile with your eyes) popularized the idea, but Peter’s method and playful direction makes it accessible for everyone.

The Magic in Candid Moments and Genuine Laughter

• [35:14] Peter’s trick: the best images come after moments of real laughter or candor.

  “I actually get the best serious shots when—after—people are cracking up.” (Peter, 36:33)

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5. Everyday Applications: Building Confidence Beyond the Camera

• [44:33] Advice for anyone facing nerves—be it the gym, a meeting, or a first date:

  “People are not watching you because they're more concerned with themselves... As an individual, you don’t think about that. But it’s true.” (Peter, 44:33)

• Self-image is crucial:

  "Everybody has a relationship with their appearance, and for most, it’s not great… I want people to be comfortable in their own skin.” (Peter, 38:55)

Practice, Not Perfection

• Confidence is a skill—Peter insists it can be learned and must be practiced, whether in front of a camera or in everyday life.

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6. Strategies for Projecting Confidence and Approachability

Peter’s “Headshot Law of Three”:

• Confidence
• Approachability
• Genuine Laughter (Peter, 35:14)

Practical Tips:

• Find your best side—experiment with photos and mirrors.
• Body comes first: posture, health, comfort in your skin.
• Clothing impacts confidence; wear what makes you feel good.
• Practice expressions and “soft smiles” in the mirror.
• Get feedback from experts—don’t DIY something as important as your professional image if you can help it.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

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On Seizing Opportunity:

“If you don’t jump on that...there was no choice but to send her and get her over there.”
—Peter Hurley, 10:14

On Self-Image:

"Everybody has a distinct relationship with their appearance...if you have a negative perception of that going through life, it’s so unnecessary.”
—Peter Hurley, 40:35

On the Power of Candid Laughter:

"I actually get the best serious shots when—after—people are cracking up.”
—Peter Hurley, 36:33

On Self-Comparison and Confidence:

“We’re concerned about things that aren’t happening, and we’re pointing out things that other people aren’t even seeing.”
—Peter Hurley, 50:31

On the Impact of Practice:

“Some people are born with it...but I think most aren’t. And these things have to be practiced.”
—Don Saladino, 38:06

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Interactive Q&A Highlights

[54:07] Question from Taylor (Texas, Real Estate Agent): “Is confidence learned or natural? Where does it come from?”

• Confidence can absolutely be taught, says Peter. His own journey in front of cameras started with zero confidence, and he learned through trial, error, and coaching.
• “First of all, the number one thing that you can do is really find a good photographer…You want a high-quality image that conveys confidence and approachability.” (Peter, 54:58)

Don’s Advice for Relatability & Building Trust:

“No one wants to buy from someone who looks cocky... I’d rather give my business to someone really warm, inviting, and genuine.” (Don, 56:06)

Audience Engagement:

Taylor is encouraged to send in his progress photos after taking the advice—solidarity and support from Don and Peter.

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Actionable Takeaways

1. Confidence is a Skill, Not a Trait:
   You can build it—with practice, mentorship, and by putting yourself repeatedly in situations that stretch your comfort zone.

2. How You Present Yourself Matters:
   Whether on a business card, social media, or in a meeting, your energy and approachability are as important as your skills.

3. Self-Image Is Everything:
   Work on the way you talk to yourself about your appearance—list your positive attributes and challenge unfair comparisons.

4. Preparation Beats Perfection:
   The most confident, memorable people (and photos) are often those that let their guard down, stop overthinking, and allow their real personality to shine.

5. Practical: Master the “Squinch” and Soft Smile:
   Try narrowing your eyes just slightly and show a real, gentle smile. Focus on conveying presence and genuine warmth.

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Timestamps for Key Segments

• 04:31 — Peter’s background: modeling, sailing, and the power of saying “yes”
• 10:14 — The importance of grabbing opportunities (story about his daughter & Paris)
• 15:00 — Humility, resilience, and confidence in the modeling industry
• 27:25 — The “facial conveyance strategist” approach: coaching confidence for photos and life
• 29:06 — Squinching & reading expressions
• 35:14 — The headshot “magic formula”: confidence, approachability, and laughter
• 38:55 — Self-image, comparison, and learning to like yourself
• 44:33 — Advice for handling nerves: “People are not watching you…”
• 54:07 — Audience Q&A: Can confidence be learned? (Taylor in Houston)

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Overall Tone

The episode is equal parts motivational and practical, filled with light-hearted banter, frank stories of struggle, and actionable wisdom. Both Don and Peter keep it conversational, relatable, and forward-looking, emphasizing progress over perfection and always rooting their advice in lived experience.

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Bottom Line:
No matter your profession, background, or current self-image, confidence is built—one authentic, sometimes awkward, sometimes hilarious step at a time. Surround yourself with coaches, mentors, and honest feedback, and never overlook the power of sincere approachability and a good laugh—especially when the spotlight’s on you.

Transcript

[A]

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[B]

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[A]

All protected with end to end encryption. It's time for WhatsApp message privately with everyone.

[B]

Learn [e-mail] welcome to another episode of Stronger. I'm so excited to introduce to you my good friend, Peter Hurley. Peter has got a really interesting background. I mean, Peter was a model professional sailor, and he became the owner, the CEO of the Headshot crew. So he runs monthly challenges that caters to photographers. So he teaches photographers how to just be better at what they do. This is not about photography. This is about helping you build the confidence that you need to just be able to live life the way that you want live it. He calls himself. I thought this was interesting. A facial convenience strategist, right? He explained that the camera strips away a person's confidence and his job is to trick them or build them back up. Confidence is such a huge part of everyday life. Whether you're working in a job, whether you're a professional athlete, whatever it might be, we all want to feel confident. He says that most people have a negative relationship with their appearance. So his job is to come in and to help pick that up. So their. Their headshot. A lot of times this is part of our business card, right? We want to have a good appearance. We want to make a good first impression of people. So I think Peter's job is very important. And he also outlined three elements for an attractive shot. Confidence, approachability, and genuine laughter. And I think this is a very valuable episode. I think everyone, no matter what their profession is or what they're doing in life, I think you need to watch this one. This is one of those episodes I'd love to be able to show to kids in high school because I just think there's so many great takeaways here. He's a parent, he's a husband. He's a great person. I know you guys are going to enjoy this one. Let's go. All right, guys. First off, I have to thank my sponsors. One of them right now being Mito Pure. Thank you guys for. For just being a loyal sponsor of ours. Probably. I think it was our first one. Was our first sponsor. Yeah, I think it was. I'm saying it was. So they have a few different products. They have Mitre Pure, which is a urolith in a product, which is. Is why I am in my 60s and I look like I'm in my early 40s. So I've been taking this product for a while. My skin, my lines, my energy level, my mitochondrial function is fantastic. And this is one of those supplements. I'm not. I like supplements. But you got to understand, I really value the importance of nutrition and sleep. Mito Pure, their urolith and a supplement. I take four capsules a day. That's a thousand milligrams. I take it religiously. And I really can't travel without it now because I have seen benefits come from this. With probably about three to six months, I just started feeling like my skin was glowing a little bit more. I was feeling a bit younger. I was okay. I'm not 60. I'm 48. Cats out of the bag now. They also have these gummies that are delicious and they also have a powder, which is fantastic as well, if you're into powder. So that's it, guys. Might appear again. Thank you again, Timeline. Thank you. And timeline is offering 20% off your first order of Mitopure. Go to timeline.com backslash stronger. That's t I m e l I n e dot com stronger. I can't believe I actually had to read how to spell timeline. I did, though. Thanks, guys. This is like getting back to it right now with you, man. I'm like, I'm happy to have you in here. This is, like, exciting for me.

[A]

I love it.

[B]

You helped out my daughter. You helped me out with. With photo shoots and stuff. Because I'm. I'm always in my business. I always have to keep current pictures. Even though I may not always stay on that. It's. It's something I probably should do more. But you. You make it fun. So I think when you. When you show up into your environment, to your studio, which is. How far is it from here? It's close.

[A]

It's three blocks away. Yeah, I just. I just ran down.

[B]

Yeah, but I mean, your. But your career. So this is what I'm fascinating about with, with you. It's. How far apart are we in age?

[A]

I just turned 55.

[B]

Okay, so we're not that far off. But, like, we really have been in. We've been New Yorkers. Like, we've been in New York for a while. I mean, you've been working in the city how many years now?

[A]

I mean, I got. I moved in in 96.

[B]

I moved in in 99.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

So think about. But, like, I. I look at you and I see someone who's, you know, you were. You were successful. You were a successful model. At one point, you got mentored by one of the best photographers I think around. I mean, when you think of New York City photography and you think of, like. I mean, he's a global name, right?

[A]

He's the best.

[B]

Yeah. Bruce Weber.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

And he's the one who kind of had the eye and looked at you and said, hey, kid, don't do this and do this. Right.

[A]

I don't know why he said it.

[B]

But I'm glad he did. Yeah.

[A]

But.

[B]

But he. But. But that's what's fascinating about all this. And this is what. I mean, I'm trying to explain people. Every single day, you start your career in one area, and it just makes a turn, and you just don't always know. Like, I'm sure when you were 15, you weren't like, oh, I want to be a photographer now. You're one of the more successful lenses out there. I mean, you're.

[A]

I. You know, when I always envied people that knew what they wanted to do, like, all through high school and even college, I was like. I was like, I'm not. I have no idea what I'm gonna do. Right. You know, and people that knew what they were gonna do, I. I envy them. But now I look back and I'm like, I'm glad I didn't know what I was gonna do. You know, I would have never turned out. Like, I remember failing. I went to Boston University, and I basically failed out one semester. I had, like, a 15 or something like that. They're like, you can't come back unless you go to. Yeah. You know, standard stuff. It was terrible.

[B]

Good job, by the way.

[A]

Yeah, but they said, you can't come back unless you go to night school. And I remember in night school, I could have studied, like, anything. There was like a. Some sort of microbiology, like, test lab thing that. And my dad said to me, he goes, yeah, you're. You. You felt you got to go to night school, and you got to go be that for the rest of your life. And that was the moment I was like, I don't want to Be that for the rest of my life. So the next semester after, in night school and everything, I got like a three, four, three. I'll never forget. And they're like, okay, you can get back on track now. And then I. I graduated. I didn't know what. I still didn't know what I wanted to do. I was a human physiology major, by the way.

[B]

Oh, I didn't know that.

[A]

Yeah, so I, you know, I kind of know a little bit. Not. Not much. But I envy you. I love your terminology and the way you speak about the body and everything. It's amazing. And for me, it brings back stuff. I was like, oh, yeah, he's talking about that. But I, you know, graduated, and I really had no clue what I was going to do.

[B]

So you move into the city and you're like, I want to model. I mean, how does that happen?

[A]

Well, I was. I was training for the Olympics, and I was on the US Which I.

[B]

Was going to get to, by the way, but go right ahead now. Let's go.

[A]

Well, they wanted to. They wanted real sailors in a polo campaign. So they call me and they're like. They had some. A designer. I was sponsored by dkny. A designer had. I remember that met me and, like, was like, you gotta. We need to help you get sponsorship. So her name's Kaggy Bradford, and she took me under her wing, and she, like, got me sponsored by dkny. And then she calls me, she goes, you know, polo's looking for real sailors to be in this ad campaign. You gotta come into New York. And I'm a Jersey boy, so I'm down at the Jersey shore, like, sailing away. And I came up into the city and I went over to Ralph Lauren, and I met a designer there, and he's like, yeah, you might work. Go over here. And I went to the ad agency, and I met the creative director there, and he took a Polaroid of me. I'd never done anything. And then that was it. And I left. And then a couple weeks later, they're like, hey, you're going to go to Miami to shoot with Bruce Weber for polo. And I didn't know who.

[B]

Bruce Rowe. You know Bruce Rowe?

[A]

Yeah. So I was like. I was like. I was in Savannah training for the Olympics because the Games were in Atlanta and we were sailing out of Savannah. And they were like, we're going to. I forget what it was. They were going to pay me, like, 500 bucks for. To do it. And I was like, I can't do that. I'm Training for the. Like, I can't leave. And I remember I'm driving. I think I was driving to Savannah with my boat on top of this van when I got the call. And I said, no, and I can't. Like, I look back at that moment, and I'm like, if I. If they actually hadn't called back, like, my life would be completely different. Right? I don't know what I would have done, because it changed so much. It was such a dramatic change, getting that. That thing. So I always look at that. I have kids. I have twins that are 22 now, and they're at that age where one's graduating in May and the other one didn't go to school. And she's like, I threw her. She's into fashion, So I threw her. I got her kind of pointed in the right direction with some friends and stuff. And she calls me, like, two days ago, and I was in. I was in Florida. And she's like, dad, I got invited to my first fashion show. And I was like, great. When is it? When are you going? She goes, I'm not going. It's in Paris. I was like, when is it? She goes, it's like, two days from now, but it's in Paris. I can't go. And I was like. I was thinking back to my.

[B]

Yeah, yeah.

[A]

I was like, what do you mean you can't.

[B]

You can't go? What was the reason?

[A]

I was like, my. She's like. She just. Mom wouldn't let her go. She didn't have the money to go. I just was like, look, I got points. And, like, you're.

[B]

How old is she?

[C]

My.

[A]

Your uncle has a. Has an apartment in Paris.

[B]

How old is she?

[A]

She's 22. So I was like. I was like, you're going. And she.

[B]

She was just like.

[A]

So I threw her. She got. She got on a plane in, like, five hours. She jumped on the plane, and now she's over there.

[B]

She's in Paris now.

[A]

She's going to every fashion show. She's doing a photo. She's like, crazy. She's.

[B]

It's like the experience.

[A]

But those are the things that a lot of people don't, like, jump on. Like, if you don't jump on that. And she didn't know point A to point B. But I was like, you gotta. In my mind, there was no choice but to send her and get her over there.

[B]

I can't tell you how many trips I've had to go on for work, where I've been like, man, I'm leaving my kids, I'm leaving my wife. I'm leaving my work to go do this. You start wondering, is it worth your time? I have never regretted once.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

After coming back.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I've never once turned around and said, well, that was a waste of time. Like, there's always a valuable experience or something or a story to take from it that I think you carry for the rest of your life. And I think that's. That's the beauty about travel. And you. And you. I mean, between sailing and. And, you know, prepping for the Olympics, you said in Atlanta, did you ever qualify?

[A]

I didn't. In Atlanta, we had our Olympic trials, and unfortunately, in sailing, only one person.

[B]

Goes, yeah, no, it's very competitive.

[A]

And in 96, I finished eighth. So at the trials, I had a bad last race, and I wouldn't have won any. I wasn't ready. But I decided to go back for. For 2000. It's strange. Five. They would give five spots to people and say, you're on the US sailing team, but you're only the first guys on the Olympic team. So in the Olympic trials in 2000, I basically came to New York and started doing this whole model, actor, bartender, dude thing. And I was. After. After how many years? I was like, it was 96 to 99. I was. I was like, in 99, I was like, I actually met this, another mentor of mine, Bob Proctor. He's like, why aren't you training for the Olympics? What are you doing? And I was like, I don't know. I was like, I don't know. He's like, well, why don't you do it? I was like. And now I'm thinking, it's a year away. I haven't sailed in three years. Like, how could I do that? He's like, you gotta. You gotta go do it. And I was at a conference, and Milt Campbell was on stage with him. And Milt won the decathlon in 1956. And he stands up, if you do it, I'll coach you. Really? And I was like, okay.

[B]

And you knew who he was when he stood up.

[A]

I knew, yeah, because he was doing stuff with Bob back then. And Bob would talk about him all the time, and then they'd show video of him winning the decathlon. And so I would go to his house and sit with him, and he started coaching me. And I made the US team that. That year in 2000.

[B]

Exciting.

[A]

So, yeah.

[B]

And that's been like, that's. I'm blown away by the amount of Strength, fatigues and endurance. It's phenomenal. Even that little. When I was at your studio recently, you have that little training device where you have to lock yourself in and hold your body out over which. Not the water, but you'd be like, what's that water?

[A]

Yeah, it's a hiking bench. It's called a hiking.

[B]

It's like a hiking bench.

[A]

It's painful. It's like a torture chamber.

[B]

Yeah. It's like the amount of core strength, the amount core strength that you have to have.

[A]

Yeah. But I remember trying to convince. Trying to convey to you what it was that this. The sailor's physique is like and what you need to be like. And, And I think you have to see it to. No, no, no, I, I saw it now.

[B]

You get it now.

[A]

And now.

[B]

Now I totally get it. And listen, even with your body comp. When you were coming to me initially and you're like, I, I shouldn't be this weight. I should be this weight. I get it. Yeah, I completely. Because when you're carrying around a couple extra pounds, it weighs on you. But again, I wanted you to understand the importance of muscle and strength. And we can always drop body fat and we can always, you know, drop a couple lbs. I think you. You lost like seven pounds recently. You were, you were telling me, right?

[A]

Yeah, but I had gotten up that you changed. My body couldn't. I mean, my arms, my shirts wouldn't fit anymore. My wife explained to me if I have biceps, what's going on. I actually have biceps now because of Dawn. It's unbelievable.

[B]

So. So New York City, 1996, you get hooked up with Bruce Weber. You're behind the camera, but you're also in front of the camera. So you're kind of living different lives here. You've got this sailing career going on, but now you're starting to get behind the camera, which ends up being your career. And it. God, I mean, looking at how that's even spun off. And we'll get to it, but because there's a whole topic here on self confidence that we have to talk about, how you prep people for the camera, but you're now behind the camera and you know, the one being taken the picture of.

[A]

Yeah, I, Well, I actually was. I did not pick up the camera until 2000. So when I left New York and most of the sailing stuff was going on in San Francisco, so I rented a car, I threw. No, I, No, I shipped my boat to San Francisco in an 18 wheeler or something and then I rented a Car out there, threw it on the top. And I lived in. And I was training in San Francisco Bay for like, you know, I was. I changed my life and I was over there and that was it. And I was. I was taking my first pictures there. I got a modeling agency there and did a little bit, but I was just sailing and doing a little bit of pictures. That was the start of it.

[B]

So the modeling piece, it's. So you probably spend, what, five, six, seven years kind of trying to do some jobs and making a couple extra bucks on the side and. Which is. Honestly, I think it's a great experience. I did a bunch of fitness stuff when I was younger, but I couldn't not. Couldn't believe I was blown away by how many people there are in that business. Like, you would go to a casting and there'd be hundreds sitting there. One person better looking and more ripped than the next. If you do not have a stomach for it, don't do it. It's like that was trying to make a couple extra bucks on the side going to Sotheby's, where they're body painting you and you're serving hors d' oeuvres at night. Like, you were doing that?

[A]

Oh, yeah, man.

[B]

I was like half. I was pretty much naked in a pair of bikinis doing that. Yeah. You remember the way they have the body paint you?

[A]

I did a couple more.

[B]

Remember, like, how long did it take you to wash that off?

[A]

Oh, I literally would.

[B]

Baby wipes. Three hour shower. What?

[A]

Well, I never. I never got body.

[B]

I got body. I was basically naked. I was in a pair of briefs.

[A]

That was it. Because Mike was booking you.

[B]

Well, yeah, Mike was. Mike was. Interesting guy.

[A]

We figured this out. Did we overlap?

[B]

I think so. Because I do remember some of your seven.

[A]

Wait, you're 48?

[B]

I'm 47 years young.

[A]

You would have been 20. Yeah.

[B]

So I started at 20. I started in the city of 21. So I. I started doing some print work in 99. 1999 was when I started. And I probably did it until about 2004. So five years.

[A]

Yeah. That's crazy. We. I just love the fact, like, I think that when we met, I was, like, excited that Evie pumped you up. So I was like, excited for you to be in my studio and everything and for us to figure out that we had the same agent back then. And we're laughing about the guy and I was just like, oh, yeah. It was just. It made the connection with you really special for me. I was like, it's so cool that we.

[B]

Yeah, but that's such a special time in the city. I think, like, when you're. When you're getting started and you know what I'm talking about, You're. You're building your way up, and you're on foot all day, running around, running around the castings. Stupid comp book. You had a little bag, you're carrying it around with. You go in and you land, you know, less than 5. Or at least I did. Landed 5% of the jobs, if I was lucky. Like, it's just. You would pick something up and out of nowhere, it's the most bizarre thing. Like, this is not. Like, you're not on the COVID of GQ with this stuff, like, out of nowhere. I remember one time, I think it was like, Exxon, where they. I got hired for their annual report, and I'm like, what are you talking about? And they're like, they need. You have to go down to the studio and they're going to tattoo you. I'm like, permanent? Not. No, not permanent. Temporary. So they go down and they put a tattoo on my arm, on my bicep. And it said, like, power or something like that. And you don't even see my face. You can see my chin. And I'm sitting there flexing. And it's like when you're open and you're thinking about. You're like, holy shit. How many times have you opened an annual report? Or you open some type of a guide or a manual, and out of nowhere, there's like this. These fluffy pictures in there that you're like, what's the point? And all it was, it was telling their story. So when you open the annual report and you got to a page, it was me flexing my bicep, but I think I got paid 1200 bucks to go on and have it done. And I'm like, give it to me. At that time, you're like, give me whatever. But that's. That was exciting about what was being in the city. So you did that. You were sailing. You go work for Web, not work for Weber. Weber takes you under his wing. And that really kind of is what puts you on this trajectory to where you are now.

[C]

Right?

[A]

Well, I'll tell you what the hard part about it was that, you know, I had gotten the polo job and all the pictures came out. So I went over to Ralph Lauren and they just gave me all these pictures. I still have them. They're, like, amazing from the shooting. They just printed them up huge, and they just were like, yeah, we're not doing anything with these. Take them. And they gave them all to me. So I run over to my agency and I got these, this envelope. I still have it. It's like this big, this huge envelope. And I run into the agency and I hadn't really started with them, they had just, they. I think Bruce recommended that I go there because I didn't have an agent.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

So I run in and I meet this woman and I was like, look, I got all this stuff. And she looks at me and she goes, you can't do print. I'm sorry. I'm like, what? I'm like, the ad just came out and it was global of me in a two page spread. Like it was right, right. I remember the first one I saw was George magazine and it was. And I. And you opened it up and it was me and I was like, why is she telling me I can't do print? I'm like, I'm in print. I'm like, why can't I do print? What are you talking about? So the hits that you took in that industry, like you said, you go in this room and you're looking around at these guys and I'm like, what am I doing here? This is not.

[B]

I never, I just, I got to a point where it actually got great for me. It became great for my head because I just walked in and I didn't care anymore. Yeah, I just walked in and I was like, I'd get a comp card, sign out to she, take my Polaroids, profile, head on, walk out. And I just didn't. I was like, whatever. If I heard from, if I didn't, I didn't. I think that's where I test a lot of my humility to. Is just because you got to get, take a lot of kicks when you're doing that.

[A]

I think that the confidence takes a hit. I think it also grows confident. I think, I think it helped me. I don't think I was that confident of an individual. And it showed in the picture. Like I didn't ever got went to modeling school or anything, you know. And I get in front of Bruce Weber's camera and he's, he's just a genius with, you know, disarming you, making you feel comfortable being like a moment.

[B]

But you, but you have.

[A]

Well, I learned it from, I learned that I had to do it from him because I was with him, but then I was with other photographers where they were just not, not up to par with anything. And, and I would just look Like a fish out of water in front of the camera. So I learned through modeling as it, as it went on that when the photographer didn't know what the heck they were doing, I was like, all right, I actually have to do something here. And, and as the years went on in the, and and I got the bookings and stuff that started to come into play. But at the beginning it was horrible and it wasn't something that it was like, you know, you had to understand that failure like this, these, this, this is, I'm getting paid. I better bring something to the table if this, this photographer doesn't know what they're doing. Because I started to work with some of the best ones and I was like, that you could, it was such a big difference. So when I picked up a camera, I was like, I, I'm self taught. It was all trial and error. I used to, Bruce gave me a photography book. He's like, here Peter, take this book. And I was like, that was. And he would like encourage me. But it wasn't like he was going to tell me aperture, ISO or shutter speed. And I remember asking, well, what do you want to do? And I was like, I want to shoot stuff. Like you, like you have an awesome career. Like you do the coolest stuff and you know, he's at the top of the game and he's like, yeah, okay, Peter, I get it. But I mean I was like, it was to be on set with him showed me. People always ask me like, well what did. Like, because a lot of photographers, a lot of models became photographers, a lot of my friends and it's helpful to.

[B]

Be on both ends, right? Like, don't you admit that, like for you to have had the pictures taken of you at one point and now to flip it, do you think that.

[A]

The guys that couldn't do it, I'd be like, what's wrong with you? Like you're on the, you're working. I just became the most annoying model on the set because I was self taught. So the minute that I picked up a camera and decided I was going to be a photographer, I was like, what's that? What is that over there? Why are you doing this? And they'd be like, will you just get in front? I remember I was doing this thing for BMW and this photographer was like, just get in front of the camera. Stop that. And I was like, oh. And my agent was like, I remember, shut your mouth. Yeah. And then I remember I was so busy with the photography, I let the body go. I wasn't working out as much. So I had gotten a little bit. I wasn't, I just didn't have the.

[B]

Six pack or get a layer of water. You get a layer of water.

[A]

And the client told the, told the agent and I was like. So I had to hear this. And I was like, oh, boy. But I had no physique before modeling. They sent me over, like, sailing doesn't.

[B]

Do it for you?

[A]

Like, I was just lean.

[B]

Yeah, you're lean.

[A]

I was watching.

[B]

How'd you develop a physique?

[A]

We went over. They sent me to Barcelona and, and that was my first. Modeling was over there and I was with a bunch of models and we would just go to the gym every day and I, and I. And they told me, they're like, you gotta like, look at these guys and you gotta do this. I was doing it. I was doing 45 minutes of it. Just abs. Just to get abs every day. And then I got the abs. And now that now they're under there. They don't go under there when the, you know, they're built. But you help now I can get them. They're prevalent at 55, which I'm proud of, you know.

[B]

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[A]

Yeah, you sense it.

[B]

And you, and you and you sense it. You can smell it. I don't care who you are. This is so important for anyone to hear. It's like, I don't care if you're an athlete. I don't care if you're auditioning for your high school play. I don't care if you're trying to get a promotion, what line of work you're in. Confidence is something that's important. At some point, you're gonna have to go in front of someone. You're going to be in a situation that's uncomfortable. How are you delivering that message? So this just isn't only about giving people confidence. So when they're getting pictures taken of themselves, they look good and they look confident. There's another, there's another thing that you're teaching people to do here in everyday life.

[A]

I've had my clients come back and they've been like, you changed my life completely.

[B]

How so?

[A]

Because, well, I started this thing. So we models, when I was modeling, we would talk about it, like, what do we do for the camera? Like, what looks do you, like, what are you supposed to do? Like, if the photographer doesn't say anything? And I remember it being a big question, having this kind of in depth conversation with other successful models, like, what, what is it that you do? And I was like, I don't even know. So when I picked up a camera, I was like, well, what, what is it that I want? And I call myself a facial conveyance strategist. So I look in the camera. You're very good in front of the camera. I don't have to really do it with you. You do your thing and it's really nice.

[B]

But take all the coaching I can get. But thank you.

[A]

No, you've got, you convey the confidence already. But when I look in the, through the viewfinder, I see everything. So I see the apprehension of somebody. I don't want my, my subjects to look apprehensive at all. Like, that's not the, the reason they're coming to me. Most people are coming to me for a headshot. I'm known as the headshot guy. And if you're going to put your headshot out there, it's got to represent your personal brand. And your personal brand is not apprehensive, hopefully. So cameras really kind of strip away a layer on people. And then so I have to build them back up or I have to trick them into building, building them back up. So I found a way to trick people and it's basically, I mean, if they're not confident, I can force confidence through, through expression. So one of the ways, the way that I found, I remember this very early on in my career, I was like, I'm just going to make everybody squint because it looks cooler. And every time I modeled and I look squinty in cameras, that was cool. But then I would tell people to squint and they'd close their eyes like this and I was like, that's not it at all. And then. And then this Tyra Banks thing with smizing came up. And everybody started talking.

[B]

Talking. What is that?

[A]

I don't know. Smile with your eyes, she says. And it became the smile with your.

[B]

With your.

[A]

With your eyes. I never understood it. I never understood it. But she said it. And then the world got to know it and everything. So then I came up with. My daughter actually said to me the word squinch. And I was like, well, I like that. I like that word. So I did a video and it went viral. And then the next thing I know, I had, like. I had good. I was on Good Morning America. They came into the studio, and I was on Nightline. I had all this stuff start happening. And squinching is narrowing the distance between your lower pupil and your eyelid. And that conveys confidence. It also makes the person look like they're in a thought process. So I make everybody do it.

[B]

Show me a squinch.

[A]

It's like it's just going from. It's go. When people are uncertain, we open our eyes. You know, deer in the headlights. They just go like this. Like, if you talk to somebody like this, if you ever notice, this is what I tell people. So I read people because it's my job to see what they. How their behavior is from the moment I set eyes on them. If I know I'm gonna photograph them to when they get in front of the camera and everywhere in between to see how their behavior is. So that I can either revert them back to that behavior when they get in front of the camera. Cause the camera is gonna strip that away. And anytime somebody's in front of the camera, their thought process goes inward because they think they. We don't know what our face looks like. But the brain. This is the number one thing I've learned being a photographer. I get excited about this stuff. The brain will try to tell you what your face looks like, but it doesn't know. Like, we have no clue what our face looks like right now. I hope we're okay. I didn't look at the mirror before I got in here. Am I all right? No, you look good. I don't see anything. I don't know what it looks like. But the thing is, when the person's in front of the camera, that's what they do. They're thinking. So they think, okay, I gotta do this. And then they. Then they're uncertain, so their eyes widen. So people get natural responses to cameras. Is this apprehension? Right? Really, they pull back. So I. I Basically, I try and do a number of things. The one thing that I discovered that was the. The real emphasis on my work was that I just. And you've been in front of my camera. I say things that sound like they mean something, but they don't mean anything or something that makes them think you.

[B]

Have the ability to do. You could say things that then allow the person to give you the expression that you're looking for.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Which is what I've noticed, because a couple times you said things to me and I had no clue what you were even talking about. And then I didn't know where you were. Like, come back here. And I went back and look, and I was like, that's what you wanted. You're like, yes. I'm like, how'd you do? I don't even know what that meant. But you just say things sometimes, and you could just get people to react that way, which I think is where a lot of your magic is.

[A]

You know, I. I pride myself on. On this stuff because it's like the most people's, like, experience in front of a camera is not good. Like they normally are. Like, I'm like, did you ever have your headshot? Yeah. And it was. I didn't love that experience. They don't know what it's going to be like with me. They're like, what the hell just happened? Like, what did just happen?

[B]

That's exactly what I.

[A]

Because I am so rapid fire with. I'm in control. So people don't know it. I don't say this to them. I don't tell people anything about what's going on internally with me, but internally with me. Every box is being checked with them. What side of their face, what's their jawline doing? What's their demeanor in there? How's their body language? Body comes first, too. So I see the body first. And if the body's awkward, I can instantly tell that, okay, I'm gonna have my work cut out for me. And they may be spatially challenged in terms of my movement of them. I'm very precise on movement and everything like that. And then for me, since the frame's so tight, I go into the face and that's where this happens. So I'm working to get that. Get something out of them. And then you've got a human. So now I'm like, I want the individual to come out and I want it on the. On their best angle, and I want it to be intriguing for the onlooker. So there's no way that somebody can really do that on their own. Even me modeling for years. Like, I'm. I'm very good in front of cameras. And I actually got a stylist that was like, hey, I want to do a shoot. And this was years. I haven't modeled since. Like, my last job was, like, 2003. He's like, I got to put a bunch of clothes. I want to. Can I come to your studio? We could use your studio, right? I want you to be the model. I was like, what? Really? Me? He's like, yeah, you still got it. Come on. I was like, all right, why not? I was like, let's do it. So he gets a photographer. I wouldn't want to be that photographer walking into my studio to shoot me. I wouldn't want to do that, you know? I mean, but this guy was cool, but he didn't.

[B]

He.

[A]

There wasn't any direction out of him. He didn't say anything to me. Nothing.

[B]

Which is tough, too, because then you start trying to play with expressions, and you don't. You never.

[A]

I.

[B]

At least you know if my chin's a little too high or if you're turning your shoulders, and suddenly you're like. I can't tell you how many times I've gone and looked at pictures. And you're like, that looks like shit. Probably 90% of them. Right? It's just like. So whether you have confidence or not, there are times with angles where you're not going to know or feel or it's just not going to appear the way that you're thinking.

[A]

Yeah, well, that's true. And I. I With this guy, though, since he didn't say anything, I just took it on my. On myself to do it. So I just started doing the modeling, and the stylist was like, oh, my gosh, you should teach a master class. But that was just eight years of doing it and then having a big hiatus and just being like, I'm just gonna have fun today. If people. It's like. It's like a moment in a shoot where the. You know, a switch goes off and somebody. You just. They. They stop caring. Do you know how much more attractive people get when they operate from their subconscious? It's unbelievable. We have subconsciously driven expressions all day long. Nobody walks down the street and goes, oh, I have to pull the corners of my mouth to my earlobes right now to look more approachable to that person coming on. No, you just. Your mouth just smiles. You just. You see somebody, there's a smile. Generally, hopefully otherwise, you know, we don't think in terms of that. You get in front of a camera and it turns off that mechanism.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So I just try and turn the mechanism back on and that creates the confidence. And then conferences. Confidence is also contagious in that environment. So since I'm so confident doing what I do, because I work so hard and do it every day, they, they treat me like an expert. And then hopefully they got the memo that I'm really good. Sometimes they don't, but you know, and then I, and then I go into it and I'm just trying to elevate them so that when they walk out they go, I can't believe that that experience was like that. And then they move and I'm like, okay, so now you did it for me. You got your jawline out. That's the other big one. That's the way to make people look their most attractive selves. Get the jawline out. I was like, you got your squinching going on and you got your hint of a smile. I always say that. So there's a three things. I call it confidence coupled with approachability. Hint of a squinch, you get that little squinch going. You do a tiny closed mouth smile. Because like everybody, the minute like somebody asked if a photographer ever asked you to smile, it's, I call it a half assed smile. It's this, this is terrible. Just like terrible. I don't like, I want to make people laugh. So then I'm like, either the smile is closed mouth, tiny smile or it's genuine laughter. And I created, it's important to me to create laughter on the set. We do, we laugh, we laugh when we're working out all the time, you know, on the set I want the laughter. It's like it creates that. I actually get the best serious shots when after the people are cracking up.

[B]

I think I actually get the most. I mean, training is there's always this misconception that people need to like scream and yell and, and it's just, I don't, I've, I've seen so many different tactics and so many people go into it where they're like pumping each other up, up, or they rile each other up too much. It's like drinking too much caffeine. At a certain point I feel like it works against you. And I know even me, like I could be, you know, get under a weight or really hard session or whatever it is. I still gotta like, I still gotta be me. I can't turn around and Try to become this like, serious, you know, throughout all training, I, I just, it's not who I am. I'm not playing to my strengths. So I gotta kind of be a little, you know, you're always joking around with us. Yeah, always. Yeah. So I gotta kind of be joking around. But then when you see me get into something, like I'm getting with it.

[A]

But no, when the lift, weights being lifted, it's.

[B]

Oh, yeah, no, it's a different. No, but I would always say you can, you can have, you would be able to have someone naked walking back in front of me while I'm training. I'm not even going to see them.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

It's like I'm so locked in, but between sets. And like what you do is. Yeah. You're getting people ready to take pictures. You're prepping them to, to have a picture taken of themselves. What you're really doing is you're really helping them carry themselves in a certain way. Right. Because as they do this more and more and more, they're going to develop more and more confidence. And then what happens? This is something that I think like with a negotiation or a meeting or a client, it's. These things are so important and they're not practiced. Some people, I'll admit some people completely get it and, and they, I think they're born with it. They just have the ability to do these certain things. But I think most aren't. And most these things have to be practiced.

[A]

Yeah. I think the interpersonal relationships that when you're conveying confidence, it changes your game completely on whatever level. And I think, I think that people need to understand that they're, you know, their representation themselves physically is something that a lot of people don't think about their relationship with their appearance. I talked about that a lot. Everybody has a distinct relationship with their appearance. And that some people, it's not great, you know, and then, you know, that's.

[B]

Like most, most, it's probably not great.

[A]

Well, most, you're right.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

If you, if, if I had said to somebody, and I'm, I'm starting to work on some self image stuff right now, that, that if I had said, I want you to write, you know, draw a line down a sheet of paper, write 10 attributes about yourself that you love physically and 10 things that you don't like. And I guarantee that it's easier to put the don't like this, don't like that than it is to think of 10 that you do like. And that's what. So I have when people get in front of my camera, it's like taking the band aid off on that, it's like ripping a band aid off. Now he's got to record this thing that I'm not thrilled with because I'm comparing myself to whatever that comparison is out there in world. And you really can't because you didn't have the same parents as that human being.

[B]

Sure.

[A]

You weren't born like that. You're not at that age, you're not at that. And that's what society's done to us. So my thing is like, like I, I want people to be comfortable in their own skin and I want them to get out from in front of my camera and feel better about their appearance from having been there. That's like my purpose. So that's what, I drive that through the whole headshot crew. So I, in my coaching, I have 20,000 photographers globally that have trained under me and I get them. I'm like, you guys have to exponentially help me spread this. Because the spread is, it's so we see it in all the media and everything that we're always comparing ourselves to the next, next most beautiful person that you see. And, and you know, and then you've got this aging thing going on and you've got the physique and you've got the, you know, whether it's your face or your, or your body or whatever. I think that, I think if you have a negative perception of that going through life, it's so unnecessary.

[B]

Self comparison is something that I think we've seen even grow more and more now that because people have so much access to all these different social media platforms, right? But you're in a way stripping people of this negative outlook that they might have on themselves. You're turning around and you're taking someone who might be a really powerful business person and great in their own spot, but then you put them in front of a camera and out of nowhere they feel like a 14 year old kid who's just insecure.

[A]

That's exactly what I do and that's exactly what I coach my people on. Because I'm like that, that skill set of being the CEO and running the big highfalutin company, that's, that's like, you know, jamming is not that all of a sudden that person gets in front of a camera. It's not the same skill set. And the camera's so powerful, it takes away people's energy. So it's, it's a powerful thing to have between me and my subject, and I have to figure out how to use it to my. To my advantage, to get them around it and get them to forget about it and to get them to behave the way they are. That's why I'm trying to always bring out, you know, the personality. It started with the actors, though, because the actor. The reason why my training ground was so good is because the actor's headshot was the door opener. Without it, they. They weren't going to get to the audition, which was just, you know, so there was so much pressure on them. So they would come in and their agent would say, well, you have to get them to do this, this, this, this, and this. And they couldn't. The difference between acting and taking a still photograph is so enormous. Like, as an actor, you have. You have a character to play. You're not yourself. You can experiment everything. All of a sudden, in a still camera, you have a script to do, you have a monologue or whatever, you have anything. And in front of a still camera, there's nothing. We're just standing there, like, point the came at them, and I'd be like, all right, we got to do something now, right?

[B]

You know, sometimes I feel like sometimes it's easier for the actor when they're in character because they're so in tune with becoming that person. And I've also found that. I don't know what your opinion is sometimes, not all. But again, some of the actors come out of character, and they're so used to being in different characters all the time, they. They. They struggle to. To find who it is they really are. Do you find that sometimes when you're. When you have someone come in on the other end, that they're trying to come in with too much confidence or they're trying to kind something to you that, you know, it just isn't really who they are.

[A]

It's. You know, it's. Sometimes people need to own the room or feel like they need to own the room. So you got to kind of let them have that. Most of the time, it's not the actors. It's like the publicist or the handler that I have to deal with. Then I'm like, the. The person I'm choosing, that's fine. The other person is like.

[B]

Like you're always a pain in the ass. Like, stop doing too much of your job and stop. Stop overthinking things, please.

[A]

You're relevant. You can just be quiet and sit there, and I'll let you have your space. But it's like Let me do my job. Yeah. I mean, I think we all have a different job to do, but I think actors also know that, and influencers. And whoever I'm shooting, whoever I'm shooting for, whatever they're putting out there, they need the images. Like, it's essential that we put ourselves out there in this day and age. And that's why I'm trying to get. I'm like, people shouldn't be. Be hiding behind. Like. Like, we're recording history by taking images in the day that we did. Like, I remember the day I shot Amelia and you. And.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

And I love that. Coming across your feed and seeing you use them, and I'm like, yes, we got them. Like, I love that that's what they're there for. We're supposed to be using these pictures now. I'm gonna put more to do.

[B]

I'm gonna put you on the spot. Before we take a few questions. Okay. Are there a few points. And you may not be able to do this because you may need to see them in front of the camera, but you're taking someone who's listening to this right now who maybe lacks in confidence.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

Are there a few things that you're going to tell them to think about whether it's in front of a camera or whether it's going into that meeting or whether it's going on that date that they're just nervous about, or they're going into the gym and they're just. I am nervous to be here. People are watching me.

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

All these things are intertwined, I think.

[A]

Well, first things first. People are not watching you because they're more concerned with themselves. So everybody says that. And you. But as an individual, you don't think about that. But it is true.

[B]

It is true.

[A]

It's so true. Like. Like, look, nobody cares about the way you lift the weight. Like you. But. But you're not. You're at the gym working with somebody else. If you. You're not even at that gym anymore. But the train, you know, you're in the bar.

[B]

I get it.

[A]

But, yeah, I think. I think there's a couple things that I want people to walk in. I want them to be comfortable in their own skin and walk in shoes that they're proud of. And I think that the feeling. Those feelings and knowing how to, you know, put your best self out there is a side door to character. It's part of your character, knowing how you look to people. Like, our image that we put out there is what people are looking for. If you're walking down the street and somebody sees you, they see you because the way you look. So figuring out things that make you feel the best. Number one is really. Well, number one probably is what you do is you get people in shape. If you feel like your body's in shape and you feel good about your body, that's going to come to a spring in your step. It's going to come into a daily, it's a daily thing and you just feel like. I think you see it. I think the really successful people that are on it, they take time away for being in the gym. I decided a long time ago I was overworking myself and I was trying to get this going and I was like going crazy for years and I let my body go a little bit and I couldn't lift my boat over my head. My shoulders were met. Like you changed. When I started working with you, it changed. I can't believe now I'm putting my boat over my head.

[B]

Nothing.

[A]

I put my, my mast up like it's a stick. Like it's like I could do with one hand now. And I used to not be able to even do it. I used to like be like, am I not going to be able to sail anymore? I'm so out of shape. And that was because I wasn't taking priority for my body. And now I, I take the mornings and I'm like, I'm not booking anybody in the morning. I'm gonna go, I'm gonna go get my workouts in. So body first. Like people confidence is going to come from feeling like you're taking care of your body first of all. Then you've got God given stuff that, that you were born with, which is the way you, you your appearance, right? If you take care of yourself and then you look at your appearance, there's gonna. I always tell people when I first see somebody I'm looking for a couple different things. One is I think everybody's got beauty in them. It's my job to find it. Number one. Two is there's an angle your face that's probably the most attractive side of your face. And people talk about this. There's been studies done. These guys came out with this study and they said like 80% of people look better on their left side side. And there's this, there's also this thing about symmetry that people that are more symmetrical look more attractive. And I think that's all ridiculous. I think it's just based on the eye is in the beholder. What's the, what's the same.

[B]

I have the beholder, I think.

[A]

Yeah. You know what I mean? You know what I mean? Anyway, like, I look at them as an artist. Like, you can't walk down the street past me without me scanning your face. Like, I'm terrible in a subway. I try not to get caught. I'm. Look, I'm just so into the human face. Face. For me, it's so unique. Everybody's. I have identical twins, and they look totally different than me. So for me, it's. It's like I'm a kid in a candy store when I get different ethnicities, different facial structures. I had to contend with that thing on the front of your face when I was shooting you.

[B]

You talk about my nose now. I love it. Amen.

[A]

It is what it is, but it makes you. You. Like, if you fixed it so it was straight or did anything, it doesn't make you you. And I told. I. It doesn't. It's great, though. It's great. I want people to embrace that kind of stuff. So I joke about. I joked about it with you when I was shooting you, but it's part of you and it's cool and I like it. It's awesome. But it's that kind of thing. Like, you have to embrace your perceived. I call them perceived flaws. We're human. Like, we're. There is no flaw. You're lucky to even be walking around the planet Earth looking the way you do. So I want them to. You can find an angle. You can look in a mirror. You should actually look at pictures of yourself because people see pictures of themselves. So people have a mirror image of themselves. Because we look. If you're somewhat normal, you look in the mirror more times than you look at pictures of yourself. So when you look at pictures of yourself, you're like, sometimes that doesn't look like me. I have people tell me all the time, that doesn't look like me. And I just turn to them, I go, there wasn't anybody else in there.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

I was like, I don't know what to tell you, but that's because we're usually looking at ourselves in a mirror with. That flips us. I have this mirror in my studio that flips you back. You looked in it? Didn't I have you look in the mirror?

[B]

The box? Yes, yes, yes, yes.

[A]

It's weird. It's weird to really look at what you look like. So people have to understand people aren't seeing what you see. You're your worst critic, for sure. About. You say things to yourself that nobody would ever say. I always had this movie idea because I do it. I walk down the street and people walk by me, and I think about the. Them if they were in my studio. And like, wow. And I. And I always am intrigued by. And we're in New York, so you see every ethnicity. You see everything. It's so cool. And I. And I walk to the studio and sometimes the light's different in the different times a year and stuff. And I'm so, like. I'm like a kid in a candy store. I'm like, just. Just by walking by people. And I find it so. So intriguing. But I. I was thinking about this movie idea. What if, like, there's no way that anybody would. Would. If you could, like, like, show somebody's thought as they made eye contact with somebody as to what they actually thought about that person's appearance. It would never be what people think that they. People are saying about them. It would be so much better. People be like, oh, that person's good. Looks great, or whatever. Like, nobody's gonna so, like, be negative about. About your face. Like in a. So basically, we're concerned about things that.

[B]

Aren'T happening happening, and we're pointing out things that other people aren't seeing.

[A]

Exactly.

[B]

It's funny. I was in my gym in New York City. There was this base molding that since, like, day one, it got damaged in, like, 2005. And I lived with it for 15 years. And I just. Every time I kind of walk by it at the certain. I would always kind of look down to it. I always kind of see. And I'd kind of turn away. And I brought up to some friends, and they were just like, dude, we've been coming here for 10 years. We never noticed it. They just never noticed it. But it was something that was driving. So that's just. I think that's the perfect example of how people just will get on something and they'll nitpick it, not realizing that sometimes what's.

[A]

Your.

[B]

What you think is your flaw might be one of your greatest characteristics.

[A]

I had this awesome story around that. I had this woman that came in and she had this amazing look, but she had a very angular jawline. Really angular. And she was acting. And I couldn't figure out the side of her face because it was all gorgeous. I was like every side. But she had these lines and that somehow went from her cheeks to her mouth. That cut up her face even more. So it was very. It just. I just loved every angle of it and I was like, these lines on your face cut up your face so much that it's like a. It's a cute little thing that gives you this angularity that I. I don't get to see very much. And I love it. Wow, that's amazing. You know, directors are going to love that with you. I looked at her, I said this. She got emotional. She goes, that's the very thing I didn't even liked about myself. Myself forever. I said, that's the very thing I love about yourself. Photographing you as. As what I'm. As what I'm seeing through there. And it's that kind of thing. So we're picking up on things that we. We never see. I always had this thing about me that people are like, you're crazy. Like that. I didn't like about myself. I always felt like my head was too long from here to here. I thought my face should be smushed. I have these.

[B]

Notice that.

[A]

Well, I didn't. I know I'm over it, but when I look at pictures, I have pictures where my face looks long and where it looks smushed. That's why when got in here, I asked which side we're sitting on. You'd see every seat. Barbra Streisand was on Ellen, and she switched seats with Ellen because Barbara had to be over there. Ah. So this is actually my. I like this a little bit better. I could tell you from your pictures, but I can't.

[B]

I don't. I honestly like you. You've asked me a couple times what side you. I'm like, I don't know. I. I don't.

[A]

I don't really understand. Well, this is what I was getting at because I want them to figure out their side. So, yeah, 60% of people, in terms of my numbers, are better looking on their left side. Just little bit. Yeah, you're good over there. But I think you may be ambifacial. So that means I feel like I'm ambifacial. I feel like I can be shut on every side, but I like the left a little bit more anyway. So you can figure that out by looking at pictures of yourself. There's also a hair part theory that it. Which side you part your history. Your hair kind of goes like that. So it could be left or do you mess it up? And if a guy's lacking follicular horsepower, then it has to be where he used to part it.

[B]

My nose. I do know that my nose goes this way.

[A]

Yeah, I know too. There's a. I Have this photographed you enough?

[B]

Well, I have this break here.

[A]

Yeah. And it's all the character right there.

[B]

It is what it is, man.

[A]

It's good. I. I photograph it.

[B]

I like it.

[A]

You wouldn't be the same without you wouldn't be the same without it. Okay.

[B]

All right. So we're going to take a couple questions. I want to thank you for coming on. This means a lot to me, and I think we're going to get a lot.

[A]

I'm glad you asked.

[B]

No, it's fantastic. I'm honored. So I think Chris. Is Chris there?

[A]

I am here, Don.

[B]

We are going to first talk with Taylor in Houston. Hey, Taylor, I'm Don Saldino. This is my buddy Peter Hurley. Nice to meet you guys.

[C]

I appreciate you letting me come on and throw a softball at you, hopefully.

[B]

I love it. I love it. I love it. Well, fire away.

[C]

Yeah. So I'm a real estate agent and investor in Texas. I've been working on my social media game as much as I can. And I just want to know for y', all, when it comes to self confidence, especially being in front of a camera, where does yours personally stem from? And do you think it's something that can be taught or comes naturally?

[A]

Well, you can definitely be taught. I really didn't have any confidence in front of cameras when I started, and I didn't even know that this modeling thing would ever take off. I don't know how you got down the path, but it's definitely learned and taught, and there's some techniques that you can do. First of all, the number one thing that you can do is really find a good photographer.

[B]

So if you.

[A]

I coach through the Headshot Crew. HeadshotCrew.com's my coaching platform, and we have a find a photographer link. And I've got photographers globally on there, and they all have been coached by me to teach that first. So getting in front of the camera, getting some experience, I mean, you're. As a realtor, you're. Your picture is on everything that you do. It's on your card. You're handing it out. Everything that you do is your image. It's a big deal. We do a lot of realtors in for hedgehogs, obviously. And I think the main thing is you want a high quality image of yourself that conveys that confidence with that approachability. You have to make sure that either a buyer or a seller is looking at you and you look confident, like you can handle to handle this, you know, working with them to get the best deal for them. Or whatever it is. If they're going to work with you, you want to be as inviting in your picture as possible. So I can't, can't stand realtors that put, like, serious pictures on their, like, where they look dead serious. I was like, why?

[B]

Yeah, I don't want to buy. I know. I, and I totally agree with you. I would never want to buy from someone who's coming on there that looks cocky or, or I, I, I, I'd want to see someone who, you know, if they're friendly and they're inviting, like, that's, like. I look at the attributes that I'm most interested in people, and I like people that are just kind, you know, like, so if you're, if you're a kind person and, you know, I, I, typically, a lot of my friends, I find, are very interesting people. Like, they're all in professions, right, that they've had to work really hard to get there. It hasn't come easy. They've gotten kicked in the head or they've gotten repositioned in different ways. They've struggled at a certain point. So I think a lot of my friends are, have a level of, of, of, of humility. So I, I know the people that I'm more drawn to is I want to. I'd rather give purse business to someone who's really nice and warm and inviting and that I know is genuine and, and I think so portray that if that's who you are and you seem like a really nice person. I mean, we don't know you, but just from how you connected and the things you said to us initially and.

[A]

Taylor, you got the dimples going. Make sure those are in your strikes, brother.

[B]

Come on, man.

[C]

I appreciate, appreciate my mom for that one.

[A]

Yeah, man.

[B]

So, so good stuff. But that's what, that's what I mean right there. Like, nice smile, nice delivery. Show that. And I think in showing that, sometimes I couldn't agree with him more. If I'm going to have someone take some iPhone pictures of me to put it up, it's like, all right, man, I'm getting what I pay for. Like, I'm, I'm probably not going to be happy right now. If I need some good head shots that are going to help drive my business and I'm going to be able to send to brands, I'm going to Peter her early, right? And, and if I need him immediately and he's not around, then he's referring me to someone, which never happened. Never happened. Because I'll always wait for him, but I'm just saying take his advice on that. I think put a couple extra. Yeah, could have come. What's that?

[A]

I'm not gonna let you go anywhere.

[B]

He's not letting me go to anyone else. Exactly. He said under his breath. But like, you know, find someone and go in maybe every, every six months, every year, refresh them, put them up in reference to social media. I heard you bring up social media. Show your personality. All the business that. A lot of the business I'm getting on social media, it's not ironically. Like, I put some covers of me up on magazines. Like, that's not people. Every person said the same thing. And you know what? They, they said we like your values and that you're a family guy. And I was like, like they're not even so concerned with my ability to be a good coach or the shape I was in or I'm in or whatever it is, is they wanted to know that I know what I'm talking about, but I have good values. And that's where it's just a reminder that you are not faking the general public. I don't want that. No offense, I shouldn't be saying, but like, I don't want that poor salesman that's going to come in and hard sell me. Hard sell me. I want someone who's going to come in and say, don, you know what, we're going to find you that home. And it might take us some time, but I'm going to be honest and I'm going to work really hard for you and I'm going to be like, damn, man, you got my business. Like, I know that's what I'm looking for, but that's what most people out there are really looking for. So portray that in your story that you're telling when you're on social media. He is, I am. We become storytellers. He's a photographer, but he takes pictures of people and he teaches people how to get behind the lens. I've always been a coach, but I'm working with brands now and I'm consulting with businesses. But no matter what, portray that image that you are, that you are proud of and tell that story right.

[C]

Yeah, I think it falls down to relatability more than anything if you know your clients are a reflection of yourself. So they're going to want to be around someone that's relatable and going through one of the biggest transactions. So, no, I hear you and I really appreciate it. And yeah, we'll continue to, to work on that now.

[B]

Now I know. Now I'm. Now I'm kind of. I feel like we're, like, vested in him now. Now I want to know.

[A]

I want to see the pictures.

[B]

I want to see the pictures.

[A]

So we got. We got. First of all, you got to go out and you got to make sure. Look at your wardrobe. Clothing's a big deal in this too. You got to feel comfortable, and you got to feel confident in what you're wearing. I always tell people, look, if your wardrobe doesn't, it doesn't. Doesn't show it. You got to go out, buy stuff, leave the tags on it. You can return it if you need to. Well, that's like the trick for actors.

[B]

You do that all the time.

[A]

Yeah, yeah, we did that all the time. But, you know, the other thing is, you don't want to. You didn't want to audition in your favorite shirt that you got your headshot in, because then you. You know, so. But you. What you're wearing is gonna. Is gonna be something that. Clothing makes people feel good about themselves. So make sure you're wearing something that. That's. That's great. I would practice soft smiles in the mirror just to make sure that you're doing the approachability thing. It's funny when I said before, I. I said, I don't know if you. You got to hear this, Taylor, but your brain will try to tell you what your face looks like, but it doesn't know when you're in front of a camera, so your smile will actually feel bigger than it actually is.

[B]

Yeah.

[A]

So you're not really conveying approachability unless you really know. You've got to. You've got to. To do some research by playing in the mirror with that. Because when you. When you're just staring in front of a camera, if you don't get any feedback from the photographer, you won't really know how much approachability you're conveying. And if you don't have that in your shot as a realtor, forget it. You know, I think. I think you really need to. Need to show that off, especially Mr. Nice Guy.

[B]

But now. But now that we're vested, we want to see the finished product. So send it to us, man. When you. When you. Oh, yeah, I will. When you have it done, just follow on Instagram if you DM us. I won't forget you.

[C]

Yeah, for sure. No, will do. I appreciate you guys.

[A]

All right, see you, too.

[B]

Good stuff. Thank you for doing this today for your long commute. I know it's a It was a hike over here, but no, we're going to have to do this again. I think this is one of. These are one of those topics that I think people need to hear and I don't think it's really discussed enough. It's like, you know, it's. Some of the stuff has to be practiced. Like, you're just talking about being on camera or getting on stage. And I feel like if you're nervous, you got a decision to make. Are you gonna crawl up in a hole or do you want to get better? And I think this is again, like, do you have those competitive juices in you where you want to challenge yourself and get yourself into a better place?

[A]

Yeah.

[B]

I want to thank the post, by the way. They've. They've been so generous with this place.

[A]

It's cool.

[B]

It's cool.

[A]

Right near me. Yeah.

[B]

So thanks to them. And let's. Let's do this again. We'll see you at the bar.

[A]

The views, information or opinions expressed in the series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Chip and Joanna Gaines by Nil Audio nor Magnolia.

[B]

And Doug.

[A]

Here we have the Limu emu in its natural habitat, helping people customize their car insurance and save hundreds with Liberty Mutual Mutual. Fascinating. It's accompanied by his natural ally, Doug. Limu is that guy with the binoculars watching us. Cut the camera. They see us. Only pay for what you need@liberty mutual.com savings. Very underwritten by Liberty Mutual Insurance Company affiliates. Excludes Massachusetts. It's okay not to be perfect with finances. Experian is your big financial friend and here to help. Did you know you can get matched with credit cards on the app?

[C]

App?

[A]

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