Dr. Gabrielle Lyon | Why You’re Not Eating Enough Protein

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stronger with Don Saladino Episode: Dr. Gabrielle Lyon | Why You’re Not Eating Enough Protein
Release Date: June 24, 2025

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Introduction

In this enlightening episode of Stronger with Don Saladino, Don is joined by Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, a renowned expert in functional medicine. Together, they delve into the critical topic of protein intake, debunking common nutrition myths and exploring the nuanced relationship between diet, strength, and overall health.

Defining Strength: The Bidirectional Relationship

Dr. Lyon opens the discussion by highlighting the interconnectedness of physical and mental strength. She asserts, “Physical strength begets mental strength. Mental strength, it's a bidirectional relationship. A strong body cannot exist with a weak mind. And a weak mind will never create a strong body” (01:40).

Reevaluating Protein Requirements

The core of the conversation centers on the Recommended Daily Allowance (RDA) for protein. Dr. Lyon emphasizes that the RDA, established over 40 years ago based on outdated methods, is insufficient for modern health needs. She states, “The RDA is an irrelevant number” (15:20), advocating for a higher intake of approximately 1 gram of protein per pound of target body weight.

Animal vs. Plant Proteins

A significant portion of the discussion contrasts animal-based proteins with plant-based alternatives. Dr. Lyon explains the challenges of obtaining complete amino acid profiles from plant sources, noting, “You would need over 400 almonds to match the amino acids in 3 ounces of chicken” (16:55). This underscores the efficiency and nutritional superiority of animal proteins in meeting daily requirements.

Navigating the Modern Nutrition Landscape

Dr. Lyon and Don explore the current state of nutrition information, marked by an overwhelming influx of data and the rise of unqualified influencers. Dr. Lyon critiques the dilution of expert knowledge, stating, “An expert like that would be someone who did a medical residency or a PhD in immunology, not someone who calls themselves an expert” (10:59). They discuss the necessity for critical thinking and reliance on credible sources amid rampant misinformation.

Muscle-Centric Medicine and Body Composition

Shifting focus to body composition, Dr. Lyon introduces the concept of intermuscular fat as a more critical indicator of health than overall body fat percentage. She shares, “Body fat percentage I think is just another marker... It's the intermuscular fat. It's the quality of that muscle tissue” (45:49). This perspective shifts the metric from how much fat one has to the quality and functionality of muscle tissue.

Strength Training: Preparation for Life

Both guests emphasize the role of strength training beyond mere aesthetics. Dr. Lyon articulates, “Strength is a responsibility, not a luxury... you train in the good times so you can perform in uncertainty and chaos” (25:15). They discuss how physical training fosters mental resilience, preparing individuals to handle life’s unpredictabilities.

Parenting and Instilling Healthy Habits

The conversation veers into the importance of leading by example in parenting. Don shares his approach to encouraging his children’s physical activities, while Dr. Lyon underscores the necessity of instilling lifelong healthy habits early on. “If you want to really parent well, you have to recognize that... saving them from themselves, from these habits” (38:31).

Live Caller Interactions

The episode includes live interactions with callers, addressing diverse concerns:

1. Scott from Iowa (59:32):
   Scott, an ultra-marathon runner and lifeguard trainer, struggles with gaining muscle mass due to his high activity levels. Dr. Lyon advises increasing caloric intake with nutrient-dense foods and incorporating protein shakes to meet his elevated protein needs.

2. Michelle from Minnesota (68:23):
   Michelle shares her battle with ARFID, a restrictive eating disorder, seeking strategies to build healthy eating habits. Dr. Lyon encourages gradual introduction of non-triggering foods and highlights the importance of professional support, while Don offers his support and resources.

Alcohol Consumption and Health

Addressing Dr. Lyon’s expertise, the discussion touches upon the impact of alcohol on health. Don and Dr. Lyon explore strategies for responsible drinking, emphasizing planning and setting personal standards to mitigate the negative effects of alcohol on long-term health.

Dr. Lyon’s Personal Experiences

Dr. Lyon shares her personal journey, including her time as a vegan in college, which led to nutrient deficiencies and health issues. This experience fuels her passion for advocating adequate protein intake and balanced nutrition.

Conclusions and Takeaways

The episode culminates in a powerful exchange underscoring the essence of true strength—comprising physical health, mental resilience, and character. Dr. Lyon summarizes her ethos:
“Muscle is the organ of longevity. Strength is a responsibility, not a luxury. Aging is inevitable, but weakness is a choice.”

Don echoes this sentiment, highlighting the importance of building stronger, better humans through disciplined health practices.

Notable Quotes

• Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (01:40):
  “Physical strength begets mental strength. Mental strength, it's a bidirectional relationship. A strong body cannot exist with a weak mind. And a weak mind will never create a strong body.”

• Don Saladino (14:00):
  “I need to start hearing this is the science that's out on this. And this is what I think. Yeah, that's special.”

• Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (25:15):
  “It has nothing to do with aesthetics. I want to be able to body armor. I want to be able to play with my kids. I want to know that if something happens... I am physically prepared.”

• Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (31:21):
  “And we have to develop critical thinking and you have to say, okay, what is this person's credentials.”

• Dr. Gabrielle Lyon (57:07):
  “We have this deep disease of comfort and we don't even remember what it's like to be faced with challenges that are almost unsurmountable.”

Final Thoughts

This episode of Stronger with Don Saladino provides a comprehensive exploration of protein’s pivotal role in health and strength. Dr. Gabrielle Lyon’s insights challenge outdated nutritional guidelines, advocate for higher protein intake, and emphasize the interconnectedness of physical and mental resilience. Through personal anecdotes, scientific discussions, and practical advice, listeners gain a deeper understanding of building a stronger, healthier life.

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Timestamps

• 01:40 – Introduction to bidirectional strength
• 10:59 – Critique of current nutrition information landscape
• 14:00 – Importance of expert opinions over regurgitated science
• 15:20 – RDA as an irrelevant number
• 25:15 – Strength as responsibility, not aesthetics
• 31:21 – Developing critical thinking in nutrition
• 45:49 – Intermuscular fat vs. body fat percentage
• 57:07 – The disease of comfort in modern society

(Note: For brevity, only select timestamps are included. Full transcript available for detailed reference.)

Transcript

[Don Saladino]

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[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Blind nil Audio Strength is bidirectional.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. Can you explain that a little bit?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. Physical strength begets mental strength. Mental strength, it's a bidirectional relationship. A strong cannot exist with a weak mind. And a weak mind will never create a strong body.

[Don Saladino]

Welcome to Stronger. Today I'm joined by Dr. Gabrielle Lyon, one of the world's leading experts in functional medicine. We're diving into how much protein you actually need in your diet and breaking down some of the most common myths around nutrition. She's not only one of the brightest minds in the field, she's also one of my favorite people. I'm Don Saladino. Let's get stronger with Dr. Gabrielle Minor. I've been fortunate enough to have some pretty amazing people in my life. This podcast for me, is not about how many followers does someone have to come on. This podcast is about two things. Are you incredibly knowledgeable in your field? But the most important is, are you an exceptional human? I want people who come on who are exceptional people. But, I mean, I think that's what I want out of today. This is not. You're not allowed to come on this once. I mean, obviously, you know, I mean.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

To be fair, you are one of my best friends.

[Don Saladino]

So I'm gonna lean on you a few times in the future for this. Like you will. You're gonna have to be. But I think today what I want is I want people to kind of learn about you as the human, because I think as smart as you are and all these things that you have going on, I think that's the part where when people find that out, they're gonna be like, oh, my God.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Do you want to know? That's the thing I'm most proud of.

[Don Saladino]

You should be.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I don't know if you know that. Yeah, I have a lot of education, and I think that I've contributed a lot. You know, I'm still writing and publishing, but the thing I'm most proud of, I mean, aside from my children, is the. And it's so weird to say I hope nobody. I hope no one listens to this episode because it's kind of embarrassing. But I. Is the person I am. I think that character is really important, and. I don't know, it's like the most important thing to me.

[Don Saladino]

Well, you. Well, I mean, it's also. You've surrounded yourself with great people. You've got your husband. Shane is. I mean, first off, I think he's probably one of the most impressive human beings that I've met. I've never. And he's the most humble.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So humble.

[Don Saladino]

Which is. It's like. Talk about putting you in check. If you're ever having a day. You get around sitting like, what are you? I was a former Navy seal. I was. What do you do now? I'm a urologist. And it's just like, everything about him, he's just brilliant, and he's just one of those guys that you get together with. And I remember him and I sitting in your kitchen because he's working all day and we're up at night.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

He published 51 papers.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, he's unbelievable. But we're sitting up at 9pm Hysterically laughing about the King of Tulsa, which is some, like, Stallone show. And we're just sitting there, and I'm like, And he's like. And he turns around to me recently. He's like, yeah, I'm running Boston tomorrow. I'm like, wait, Boston, like the marathon? Then he's like, yeah. I'm like, did you train? He's like, yeah, I ran, like two weeks ago. And I'm like, you're just gonna run Boston? And he's like, yeah. And I'm like, And I knew. And then the second I wasn't like, oh, he's not prepared. I'm just like, oh, I wonder how he's gonna feel after he finishes. And then after. I'm like, how'd you feel? And he's like, fine. I'm like. And he's shaving, like, did all the skin on your toes come off? And he's just like, no, no, no, I was fine. He goes, I didn't run, like, my fastest time, but I was fine. I'm like, shane, like, maybe we should write a program on, like, two workouts.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Hysterical.

[Don Saladino]

So your journey, I mean, it's been. This is not something that happened overnight.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Oh, my God. No.

[Don Saladino]

I mean, it's just been. I mean, you and I have known each other how many years now? It's got to be going on. It's over a decade. Easily. It's easily over a decade. We've gone through a lot.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yes, we have.

[Don Saladino]

We've gone a lot of highs, a lot of lows. So people don't realize is the amount.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The drive.

[Don Saladino]

Days, the drive.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Oh, I. I just can't believe. I know this isn't about you, but now having two little children and watching, you know, people see you and see you very successful and as if it was so easy, and you're an influence. Like, you're none of those things. You're a really good businessman. And I. You know, having two little kids and a husband that's in residency works 120 hours. I just don't know how you were commuting from Long island to just managing that massive endeavor.

[Don Saladino]

It was big. But now I'm looking at you with two little kids, you know, and your husband who's working crazy hours and amount of visibility you have for the public, right? How they see you and the amount of work and the amount of travel, it's. You know, you're one of the harder working people I've ever met.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I probably drink enough caffeine to kill a draft horse. And I'm not. I'm not saying that's a great idea, but I.

[Don Saladino]

You gotta go.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I am really okay with very hard work.

[Don Saladino]

Yep. You actually thrive on it. I do, yeah. You, if you weren't. If you're sit. You're one of those people that if you're sitting around.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah, we know what you have. I call you with anxiety, but it's not even that. It's. There's a lot to get done. I was working on my book on the way over.

[Don Saladino]

Your second.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's your second in the cab, by the way.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, it's your second.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

My book. You know, people say, man, I don't know how you do it. And I think to myself, I, I don't know if it's more than the next person because we all have things that we're juggling. Do you know what I mean? It's. I think I have a lot of discernment and I'm able to hyper focus and execute. But yeah, there's a lot to do.

[Don Saladino]

The books are something that came on recently. So it's interesting because I saw you go from the Ashe Center.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Can we also be fair? When we first met and I was sitting in the. We should tell this story, talk about it. Okay. So we were sitting. You've been one of my biggest supporters.

[Don Saladino]

Thank you.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I mean a book comes out, you're there, whatever it is. Hey, Doc, it's like you're there. And I had just finished fellowship. I did my fellowship at Washu, which is an incredibly different difficult fellowship in nutritional sciences and geriatrics. And I was meeting with one of your high profile patients. I don't know if you remember who it is, but I do.

[Don Saladino]

Okay.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And we had done extensive testing and I was sitting there and giving him kind of a spiel. And afterwards you're like g, Doc, Doc G. Which by the way you still call her, which is hysterical.

[Don Saladino]

Still call her Dr. Gabrielle.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. Just like. No, Doc, Doc G, Doc, Doc, Doc G. You're like, you cannot. And you said it nicely, but you were like, you can't really communicate to people like that. They're never, it's never going to land. You're never going to get to the end result. And it was in that moment it really changed the way that I communicate to the public and to my patients.

[Don Saladino]

It becomes, it became, you became so relatable even on this stage. The last, every time I've seen you at your event over the last few years, there's just been this evolution where not saying you were ever scripted, but I feel like you're able to come out there and be yourself. That, yeah, you were intense but not.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Like I was more tense it was more.

[Don Saladino]

This is the information.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

This was the information that's fair. And there has to be an evolution if you really want to ultimately relate to people.

[Don Saladino]

But you started doing something I really.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Respected, brushing my teeth.

[Don Saladino]

She started doing something I really respected and that was, I think a lot of people in your position, they always regurgitate the science. You will discuss the science, you'll give your opinion or you'll say there isn't enough science out on this. I find that refreshing because I am not leaning to you not only as one of my closest friends best but someone that I'm like, I confide in, I want. I am more interested in your opinion than six people in a lab for six months doing tests. I am because I feel like you have this level of research experience, practical experience, you have a thought process. I am coming to you not because I want you to regurgitate all the science that's out there. I want to hear from you what, what is going on? How should, because it's so confusing for most people to go to a PubMed med paper nor should, nor should they be, but they're like well where's research? Where do I read? Who do I listen to? And it's a regurgitation. I need to start hearing this is the science that's out on this. And this is what I think. Yeah, that's special.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Well that comes from right now. We're in a landscape that has never existed before.

[Don Saladino]

How so?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Well, we have social media and we have access to more information than we have ever had. And also there is an increase in publishing and it doesn't mean that it's publishing good data.

[Don Saladino]

Right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

To be fair, I started my career over 20 years ago learning from some of the best world class scientists and we were, we didn't, I don't even think we had PubMed. I had to go to the library and actually rent and get the journal articles which is insane and time consuming. Oh my God. It's still time. It's still time consuming.

[Don Saladino]

That's what I'm impressed about. I don't know how you're able to get all that data down. That's, that's a lot.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Well you, well here's what you end up doing it. If you are trained in the sciences then you're trained how to think about it. But right now all you have to do to become a, an expert or quote world leading expert is I don't know, have 100,000 on Instagram and put that in the title and you will see individuals say Immunology expert. And so in my world, an expert like that would be someone who did a medical residency or a PhD in immunology, not someone who calls themselves an expert. And that never happened before, which further convolutes the science. And this landscape is going to be more tricky than ever before because it is actually a matter of life or death.

[Don Saladino]

Do you have people ask me this all the time? How do we start governing this a bit? There's so much content out there and a lot of it now is just fake. It's just made up just to get clickbait. And I feel bad for the general pop because it's not their job to learn. They're looking at someone with a large following. They think credibility should come with that, which it doesn't. And they're. People ask me all the time, how do we, how do we start? Actually, some of the biohackers now are saying not to mention names because, you know, I don't like to get. No, but there are a couple of them out there that are saying some things that you're like, wait a second, that's not accurate, that's not right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You have to educate the public to say, who are you going to for information?

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And part of the reason that it's happening is because people have been so unhappy with the medical information and just the way that our medical care is. And so they are then forced to go somewhere else. They're going to other people because they're looking for answers. Traditional Western medicine is not designed to deal with longevity or wellness. It's designed to treat illness. How would someone listening to this go, gosh, I need to figure out how to get good information. What they would do is they would pick a handful of reputable people and tune out the noise.

[Don Saladino]

And tune out the noise. Too many cooks in the kitchen or is a problem.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But you have to develop critical thinking and you have to say, okay, what is this person's credentials? Frankly, credentials matter. If you are truly an expert, then you've done the work and the time and that you've put in the reps. It's the only way. And then you go back and typically the people that are doing really good science, you'll never know who they are. Which is exactly why I did my podcast. You don't know who the world leading expert is in infertility for women, do you?

[Don Saladino]

No, no, I do.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Her name is Melanie cree. She's an MD, PhD. Out of the eight studies of Ozempic and fertility, she published two of them. There's only eight studies.

[Don Saladino]

Wow.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

She published two. And then really understanding that there are a lot of different perspectives and two things can be right at the same time.

[Don Saladino]

Right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And individuals that have good science, it's not about defensiveness and it's not about ego. It really is. Okay, well, what does the science say? And how do we begin to think about it?

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You know, like, I'll give you an example, which I called you because I was pretty annoyed, of course. You're usually my first call.

[Don Saladino]

Thank you.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The New York Times interviewed me about protein. Do you remember that?

[Don Saladino]

Right. That was recently.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

This is an example. So the New York Times, we know that their reach is massive. It's legacy media. And they called me because they were doing an article on is the RDA enough? And for the listener, RDA is a recommended daily allowance of protein, and it's how much protein we should have to prevent deficiencies. It's the minimum number.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, sure.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And the RDA in and of itself hasn't changed in 40 years.

[Don Saladino]

No, no, no.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It is also based on a technique from the early 1900s for animal agriculture to determine nitrogen balance. Now, I'm asking you a question. Do you know the health outcome of nitrogen balance in a human?

[Don Saladino]

Do I know the health outcome?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. No, I don't know anyone who knows that. No, the question isn't, is the RD enough? The question is, is the RD a relevant number?

[Don Saladino]

Right, right. And they. And they completely ignored that.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Totally ignored it.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. They also. I don't even want to say in fairness to them, but I think their problem is, is a lot of these people writing the articles aren't well versed. They shouldn't be having the conversation to begin with.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

They were vegan activists.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Vegan, vegetarian.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. Your recommendation is 1 gram of protein per pound of ideal body weight or target body weight?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Sure, target body weight. And listen, we're still thinking about the rda. The RDA is an irrelevant number.

[Don Saladino]

Irrelevant.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And we have new ways of studying it. And it's double the RDA, so closer to 1.6 grams per kilogram, or close to 1 gram per pound, target body weight.

[Don Saladino]

And there's really. I mean, talking about. There's really three macronutrients. I mean, there's three macronutrients. You have protein. You have your carbs and your fats.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. The most important macronutrient is protein.

[Don Saladino]

It's protein.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It is essential dietary protein. We need more as we age. We don't need less fats and carbs. Fine. Kind of irrelevant. You decide if you're metabolically healthy, you can have more or less carbs. But if you are overweight, looking to lose weight, then you have to watch your carbs. But dietary protein, we still have to get that right.

[Don Saladino]

100%. And I've always gone a little higher because I feel like some of that protein, I'm measuring total protein. So when you remove the animal protein from there.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah.

[Don Saladino]

All right. You know, I'm £210. When you look at animal protein during the day, I probably get about to 20. So a little higher. And then another 30 grams is coming from, you know, plant sources. Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I did a calculation with Don Lehman this morning.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

We looked at about 3 ounces of chicken. How many almonds do you think it would take to equal out those amino acids?

[Don Saladino]

My guess?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. Yes.

[Don Saladino]

100.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Anyone else? Like, over 400.

[Don Saladino]

Wow.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You would need over 400 almonds.

[Don Saladino]

You're right. That was a bad guess.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

No, no, it was a great guess. Think about that. 400 almonds.

[Don Saladino]

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[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So the RD. So according to the Healthy Eating Index, about 45% of Americans.

[Don Saladino]

It's like half the population is not getting enough protein.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

According to yeah, the dietary guidelines according to the healthy eating index. So there's the rda, which is the minimum, and then there's the dietary guidelines, and then there's the NHANES data set. So most people are not getting enough dairy. I think 95% of the population is not. 95% or more is over the recommendation for refined carbs and grains.

[Don Saladino]

95%?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

95%. And also again, there's a little nuance this conversation because people are measuring this conversation against the rda, but the RDA is the wrong number.

[Don Saladino]

Why are they still valuing something from 100 years ago?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

We need it. It's complicated.

[Don Saladino]

What's your opinion? Again, we're not saying.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Here's my opinion.

[Don Saladino]

This is your opinion.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I think that we have the data and that the data is clear that we need closer to 1.2 grams per kilogram or 1.6. That data is clear from emerging technology. I believe that there is challenges with making and changing recommendations because we don't eat in a silo. So, for example, let's say we increase the recommendation for dietary protein. The World Health Organization is going to have one country that is now doubling this baseline protein recommendation because it's actually a luxury to be able to have the quality food that we have here. It's luxury and it's money. And then there's one more thing. Are you ready for this? The beef industry, these protein industries, or these whole foods are commodities. Dairy is a commodity. It comes from farmers or a lot of the meat comes from small farms. Almonds, that's also a commodity. Whole foods are a commodity. Egg is a commodity. The egg. These commodities are under the usda. They're governing bodies under the usda. The USDA is very strict on what claims can be made. For example, an egg might be able to say, like egg could say it's a good source of protein, but because it is under the usda, it could never say, or milk. It's a better source of protein than almond juice.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. So they can't go because it bastardizes the other.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Well, processed foods are under a different regulation. And processed foods can make claims.

[Don Saladino]

Right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

For example, that pretend meat, they can make claims. It can make environmental claims. It can make disparaging claims against other food products. But the whole foods cannot make statements to support their position.

[Don Saladino]

What are they saying about these, these fake, impossible meats, which are obviously, we know that they're complete garbage.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Garbage.

[Don Saladino]

It's complete. But what are the plant comp. The plants strong, the plant based company, what is their defense? What is their defense when someone like you turns around and says, this is clearly bad for you, what are they saying about that?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Well, they'll turn. And again, I'm just speaking from my opinion. They'll turn to an environmental statement and they'll say, well, animal products are killing the planet. Or animal.

[Don Saladino]

Which is not. Which is not.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

No, no. Beef consumption is down like 40%. And if beef was responsible for cancer and obesity and all these things, then how is it that we are sicker? Heart disease. How come we have higher levels of heart disease and all of these other illnesses if the thing that is causing it, the consumption is down 40%?

[Don Saladino]

And I don't understand how they even make those claims. I always.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Quality data.

[Don Saladino]

I always allude back to this. My dad's mom and his four and her four sisters. Three or four sisters all live to be the ages of like 96 and 105. They meet several times a day. Several. Their entire life. So I'm like. When you look at something like that. And on the other hand, I have a friend of mine who had it going for heart surgery at 50. He's a vegan.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Okay.

[Don Saladino]

You know, so it. But like, you start. And that's just one case. Like, what are they saying? How can they even prove or they don't.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

They just.

[Don Saladino]

It's made up. It's completely.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The other part that I, I didn't say is that the commodities marketing budget, collectively, all of them pool their resources together, it's about $750,000. $750,000 for what? For their marketing budget. All of them. One processed food. One company, PepsiCo. Its marketing budget is like 2 billion.

[Don Saladino]

Wow.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Whoever has the money controls the narrative. And they're very smart. They're marketing to influencers that think they're doing the right thing and they become very dogmatic and then spread this message. The idea that cattle is killing the planet is ridiculous. The majority of our land that we have is land that can graze cattle. It can't be used for crops. There's nothing to do with that land other than raise cattle. You cannot grow crops.

[Don Saladino]

How the, how the plate should look, I feel like it's your traditional. I explain people, oh, how do you eat? I'm like, I eat. I eat a high quality food diet. Like, I don't. I can't really. Well, what would be the closest to the diet that you eat on? Like maybe the Mediterranean, Maybe you could call Paleo, but I actually include grains because I can have that. Like, it's probably in between those I don't really know how to categorize or why we have to categorize how we eat. It's like your protein perspective. I have. Yeah, I have my protein. I have my veg, and if I can, I'll get my fibrous carbohydrate. When I say fibrous carbohydrate, I don't categorize it as my greens. I categorize it as my sweet potato or my quinoa. Or. You know what? Maybe my jasmine rice doesn't have much fiber in it, but maybe I'm getting some from the greens. I need some more carbohydrates. It's how my body runs really, really well. It's not. Do you think that we've gotten a little bit too crazy in trying to differentiate how this one eats compared to this one? Compared to this one?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah, I think there's a lot.

[Don Saladino]

What do you tell people?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

There's a lot of biodiversity, and humans are incredibly adaptable, and we can thrive on a million different kinds of diets. But you have to recognize that there are fundamentals that we have to hit if you want to age well. And again, it's not about aesthetics. I think the biggest cultural misconception is that muscle and all of this stuff is about aesthetics.

[Don Saladino]

It's not how I look at it.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It has nothing to do with that. I want to be able to body armor. Yeah, man. I want to be able to play with my kids. I want to know that if something happens or when something happens, I can't plan for that, but I definitely can prepare. And the more prepared I am, the more capable I am to be able to move through whatever life throws at me. Because it's not an if, it's a when.

[Don Saladino]

Sure.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And so when you think about protein and you think about nutrition, you have to. Or you think about your plate, you have to hit protein first. It doesn't have to be red meat. I don't care.

[Don Saladino]

You don't care about going over either? I mean, there's not. Has there been any data that shows, like, if you decided to go over. I've been very high on my protein my entire life.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You define. But you also define high based on what? This is a good question.

[Don Saladino]

I define high based off of my body weight. And if I'm getting around a gram and a half per pound, most people would frown on that. It hasn't seemed to affect me negatively.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

This is. This is, again, a little deeper nuance of the question. We've put labels as to what high and low is.

[Don Saladino]

What do you consider high and low or don't you?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Well, the. What I would consider low is the current recommendation. Yes, that's a low profile.

[Don Saladino]

100 agree. That's, that's too low.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

0.8 grams per kilogram or 0.37 grams per pound. That is a low protein diet by definition. If we were to double that, that would be a moderate protein diet, not a high protein diet. So close to 1 gram per pound of target body weight is a moderate protein diet. Double that again. Now you're talking about a high protein diet. But we create judgment on all of the things you said.

[Don Saladino]

Doubling the recommended on a gram per pound.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. So 2 grams of protein per pound of body weight, that's a high protein diet. And we should mention why. We'll round out what the plate should look like. You start, you prioritize a high quality protein. You've got to think about fish, beef, chicken, eggs. If you are vegetarian, you could do soy. But I think we should reconsider those thinking about that. Dairy is also a high quality protein. And then fiber, carbohydrates, big time phytonutrients. You and I talk a lot about urolithin A. There's phytonutrients that I think are really good.

[Don Saladino]

I love you. Got me turned onto that product. That mitopure product is amazing.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But even mitopure is amazing and it's the compounds, so it's these anthocyanins and these postbiotics that are really critical that affect mitochondria and muscle health and that becomes important to recognize. And the average American is not getting enough fiber. This gut microbiome thing is, is important and it's been around for a long time and we're just scratching the surface. And then frankly, fat, I don't care where it falls. And also, by the way, did you know that the majority of fat in steak is olive oil? It's monounsaturated fat.

[Don Saladino]

Wow, I didn't know that.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But people will say, oh my God.

[Don Saladino]

So you don't. So you don't care much about fat content.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I don't.

[Don Saladino]

You're just like, hit, hit your protein, get in. This is your thought process. Hit your protein, get enough fiber.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah, that's basically what you're carbs if you're training. And then fat, let the fat fall where you want it to fall.

[Don Saladino]

Are you in that, Are you in that mindset of Most women around 28 to 30 grams of fiber? Most guys 38 to 40 around there, yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I mean, it just depends. Most people don't hit that. Yeah, totally depends on the person. I will also be fair and say that there's variations in the gut microbiome and that, you know, certain individuals can extract amino acids potentially from fiber, which is unusual. And I can't say that we know enough about it yet because it's really in rodent models. But we do see, you know, some vegan vegetarians do really well, and the question is, how are they not so protein deficient? And I think it has to do with the microbiome. The other thing that we should mention is why do we actually need protein in the first place?

[Don Saladino]

Muscle building block, isn't it?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Also, do you know that your body requires 250 to 300 grams a day for repair and maintenance, for protein turnover? And you become less efficient at this. As you age, your body replaces itself four times a year. That's interesting. And that's actually why you need protein. Yes. I mean, for building muscle. Yeah. But everything else, skin, hair, nails, gut, liver, and you become less efficient at this. So if we were to lean on the current recommendations, you're in trouble. You know what you're going to look like? Don't be surprised by the end result.

[Don Saladino]

So why, why for years were people talking about, well, it's going to be rough on your kidneys, rough on your liver. There's no, there's no, there's no, there's zero. It's complete bullshit now. I think it's complete.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The data also supports what you're saying.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Again, it becomes, and it just is so crucial to get this right. I mean, it is, it's life or death. It's not.

[Don Saladino]

I almost want to challenge. I mean, this is what you've done. You've. You, you're almost like taking a stand where I feel like you're, like challenging people. Try and overeat protein. Like, go, just go right ahead. Try and overeat protein. You're not gonna overeat protein and the fiber piece of it. It's hard. I've done preps for, for, for covers where I've tried to do it straight on sweet potato, where I'm trying to get 300 grams of carbs a day through only sweet potato. It is hard. Yeah, it is hard. When you're eating fibrous carbs like that, you ain't overeating. And you know what? I can almost guarantee anyone, if they went in every day and just tried to fill up too much on protein, I want to see what happens. I Want to see what happens to your body composition?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Also, the data supports that people that are struggling with willpower, that protein augments willpower. If you have protein first thing in.

[Don Saladino]

The morning, oh, you're not going to want to crave. You're not going to crave crap.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And it's the ultimate test of are you really hungry?

[Don Saladino]

Right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Here's this dry chicken breast. Are you really hungry and you want it? Okay, then you're hungry. But the other thing is that we.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, that's a good one. I never heard you say that. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Are you really hungry?

[Don Saladino]

Are you emotionally eating chicken breast? If you don't want to eat that chicken breast, then yeah, you're not hungry.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

What about this idea that it's actually protein is 20 different amino acids? We're talking about it like it's one thing. It's not.

[Don Saladino]

It's not.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And, you know, you think about antioxidants like glutathione.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

That the precursor for that is methionine, an amino acid that we need more of as we age. And, you know, I think for the general public and I think even for physicians and people in nutrition, it's very complicated. We still. You look at the back of a label and it still just says protein. I don't even think we're close to getting to where we need to be.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, no, definitely not.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And we might not have to be, as long as you create a good nutrition plan and you stick to it. If we could minimize chaos and minimize the noise, I think people would really. They'd be able to transform their life.

[Don Saladino]

I feel like it's kind of like politics, though.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Oh, it's. It is.

[Don Saladino]

It really isn't. I'm not gonna talk politics on here, nor would I ever.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I don't know. You're talking red meat. So that's kind of.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, it kind of. That's what. You're right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Crazy. But they've weaponized food.

[Don Saladino]

100% weaponized food. You're a Democrat or you're a Republican. It's like you're one or the other. You eat meat or you don't eat meat. It's the same thing. And you can't speak your mind on things anymore. If I'm going to turn to a vegan and I'm going to say, I'm sorry, it's going to be more difficult for you to get all the amino acids that you need, all the protein you need, off of a vegan diet. And they say, well, I'm having this. And it's just as good. And I say, no, it's not. Scientifically, it's not right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

What about creatine? What about B12? What about, you know, we're talking about protein, but what about the other micronutrients?

[Don Saladino]

Very important.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

What about that?

[Don Saladino]

Creatine's almost becoming, like, essential now.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It really is funny.

[Don Saladino]

It really is. I'm not gonna say it is.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah, yeah. No. But I've heard someone say, ah, we don't have a creatine deficiency. It's like, all right, dude, well, how do you want to age?

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Okay. It's not about getting the bare minimum to be able to function. Yeah.

[Don Saladino]

Someone asked me the other day, like, do you take creatine? I'm like, for 30 years, I've been taking creatine monohydrate. For 30 years. I used to see a doctor before you were ever a doctor, 16 years old. His name was Dr. Gary Wadler. He was on the congressional hearing for the steroid panel for Mark McGuire and Conseco and all that stuff that happened in baseball in the 90s. And at that time, I was 17, 18 years old, and I was binge drinking on the weekends.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You were. I didn't know that.

[Don Saladino]

So I would know. I would. I would train during the week, and we would go. Me and my friends would go party on Saturday night, and we would get torched. So I was on creatine monohydrate. And I remember Dr. Wadler turning me, this is the guy who was interviewing Jose Canseco. This is the biggest thing in baseball going on. And he said, saladino, it's the creatine. Get off the creatine. Hold on, it gets even better. So I turn around, and I didn't listen to him. I didn't get off the creatine. I got off the alcohol and all my liver enzymes restored. And he goes, you got off the creatine, didn't you? And I looked at him, I go, yeah, I did. Just because I didn't want to hear it. I was a young kid. And he goes, I told you. And I just kind of nodded at him. This is no. God rest his soul. He's in heaven. I've learned so much from this guy. But that was, again, information coming from one of the smartest sources. This is 30 years ago.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It is unbelievable.

[Don Saladino]

And it's incredible how even today we're were just misinformed. The thing that's shocking now is that we have a lot of this research out, and the information's in front of you people it's like politics. They don't. They'll just completely ignore it, even if it's in front of them.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

How many doctors have you heard say, don't eat red meat because it's bad for your cholesterol? Yeah, you hear that bullshit? Sierra, do you hear that? Producer friend? Do you hear that bullshit? They took cholesterol recommendations out of the guidelines in 2015.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, complete bullshit.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

They took out the. They took out the guidelines. That you have blood levels of cholesterol doesn't mean it's related to your dietary levels of cholesterol. I mean, maybe for a small percentage of people, but what happens is they're making global recommendations to masses of people based on exceptions. That's deadly.

[Don Saladino]

Deadly.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The other thing that is critical, which I would love to see shift, is children. Our kids are very sedentary, and it's becoming normal for those kind of behaviors.

[Don Saladino]

I think it starts. I think the schools are a massive problem. I think it's a problem. When I was in. When I was in elementary school, I went to the elementary school that my kids went to. We used to have gym class every day. I remember it was like a daily. I looked forward to it because it just got me out of the chair at a young age. I just wanted to move. And gym class every day. Now I think they have it once, twice a week. I'm like, that should be a mandatory. You're taking a growing child who sits, by the way. My kids start their homeroom at 8, at 7:45, 8 in the morning, and they sit till 2, 2:30 in the afternoon. It's terrible. You growing child.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. And if we. I'm not so worried about the older generation. I'm not so worried about us. Because if you want to get better and you want to be healthy, the information's out there. You don't need to follow influencers. You can follow the science. You can pick a handful of trusted people that you look to to be well informed. But, you know, we do have to create an example for this next generation and dispel some of these myths. Like, they shouldn't be training or any of these other things. It is, it is.

[Don Saladino]

But even, even, you know, now, you know, the schools are saying, oh, well, they need to spend their time in class. My kids for the last 4, 5, 6 years get free periods. They should have like one gym class a day where they're doing something a little more intense, and in another, give them credits for where they just walk like you just move.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I love it.

[Don Saladino]

Get out of the chair a bit. Watch how much more productive they're going to be during the day. Condense their schedule a little bit. Have them go in and focus on real life stuff. We can do a whole thing on kids right right now. Internships, practical stuff.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Totally.

[Don Saladino]

Just. It's just, you know, but we should.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Challenge them so we, you know, there's this saying that good times create weak men, weak men create hard times.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Good times, easy times create weak men.

[Don Saladino]

Yep.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Weak men create hard times.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

No, and it makes sense. I do think that culturally, we've really softened people big time. And that is, you know, we talk about health and we talk about muscle and we talk about protein, but what we're really talking about is building stronger, better humans.

[Don Saladino]

Well, it starts in the house. I mean, it's. Well, so let's, let's shift to that. Because the one thing I love that you've been doing is, you know, you'll throw a post up every day with you and Aries in Brazilian Jiu jitsu class. You and Leo doing some activity. Your daughter and your son. Your daughter is following what mom does on the balance beam the other day.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Unbelievable. It.

[Don Saladino]

But this is not like parents will ask, how do you get your kids to do it? I go lead by example.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah.

[Don Saladino]

Because they see mama doing that and they see dad being active, and you guys are an active family. They're going to follow.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And how many people have we worked with? We've worked with thousands.

[Don Saladino]

Thousands.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The saddest thing is when you see someone who spent 30 years still trying to undo habits that they've carried on from high school, teenage years. If you want to really parent well, you have to recognize that.

[Don Saladino]

Yep.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's not about being too hard on these kids. It's about saving them from themselves, from these habits. I mean, you and I have seen people go through their entire life never being able to achieve energy, the body composition that they want, still struggling with food, and it has consumed an entire life. From my perspective, I think we should prevent that from the beginning.

[Don Saladino]

Yep.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I want to instill habits that my children don't have to undo. And not only that, habits that they then don't even think about. There's no, oh, should I get up and train today? Oh, should I make this choice? Oh, should I not drink? Should I have good character?

[Don Saladino]

You know, I think it starts in the house. And I've seen it with my children. Because I'll be honest, there was a time early on where I was. I want to say I was second guessing my approach But I was more thinking about my approach and I was going into situations where I was. My kids would ask me questions and I was very cautious.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah.

[Don Saladino]

Because I knew, I know the situation I'm in, who I am and what they look at me as, who they look at me as. And I did not want to create monsters. So the last thing I wanted to do was be too firm, too hard to where I chased them away. I almost took a little bit of a different approach. Funny story, when Aries is how old now?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Five.

[Don Saladino]

Five. Okay. Donnie.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Boy, do they love you. They were so.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, my God. Beautiful. She's. They're beautiful kids, Leo.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I mean, gorgeous kids. And strong.

[Don Saladino]

Strong.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Tough.

[Don Saladino]

Strong and tough. Well, their parents are. But my. But My son was 6 years old.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I know this story was. It's a tone story where he's like, dad, I want to come work out.

[Don Saladino]

No.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And you're like, this is. This is what we do.

[Don Saladino]

Big boy stuff. And then I let him come out. And I remember at that point he started tagging along more. I'm looking out at the barn. Him and his friends are training. You know, weekend nights are hanging around. I'm thinking, are they going to be drinking? They're out in the jungle gym doing pull ups. And granted, my son, you know, they have fun and they have a social life, but it's great to see them make good decisions. Now my son will go and have pizza or maybe fast food. And the next day I'm like, what do you eat? And he's like, I just went a little overboard yesterday. And I'm like, wow, you're saying, Donna, you're.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

How old is he now? Is he?

[Don Saladino]

16? But I'm like, Donnie, you're 16. You're resilient, you'll be fine. But I love the fact he's like, no, I just. I'm like, why are you doing this? He goes, I just don't feel good from doing that too much. And I was like, as a parent, when it comes to that, I'm like, I did my job. And my daughter says the same thing. Granted, Amelia developed some weird.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The girls do.

[Don Saladino]

Well, she became a pescatarian. And I was like, you know, I mean, I can't say between you and.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I, well, you can edit this out.

[Don Saladino]

No, no, no, we're gonna leave it. And I'll be honest, I wasn't happy. And I asked her, I said, why? She goes, it was for more humane purposes. And she just, she didn't want to eat animals and whatever. I let her run with It. But she's, you know, eating a lot of veggies and then she's, you know, they'll learn.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

We all went through it. You know, I think we all went through it.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The landscape is challenging.

[Don Saladino]

It's tough.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The landscape is challenging with kids, even with our own human health. And ultimately, I mean, like, I think about just all of this stuff out there. Hormone replacement. People are so confused.

[Don Saladino]

Well, there's a lot to be confused about. You have so many hormones and peptides and so many different things out there. We could spend a few episodes just going through that stuff. But I think the regular basics, which I wanted to start with you today, is we really covered a lot on protein. When a vegan's contacting you, they don't.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

They. Unless it's a threatening message or letter. I'm just kidding.

[Don Saladino]

No, but you probably get something.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I don't. I don't. Yes.

[Don Saladino]

So don't say I'm kidding. I mean, it's sad. It's sad that people actually have to.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Come to that point and actually I was vegan. I was vegetarian. I was vegan. I did. I don't remember. Oh, yeah.

[Don Saladino]

How long was that long?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

College. And then my teeth started getting loose and my hair started falling out.

[Don Saladino]

Wow.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And I was training really intensely and I couldn't recover.

[Don Saladino]

You sent me a paper of all the people that were vegan that developed. I wish we could find this.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I'll be able to find it. So we should.

[Don Saladino]

If you can find this. I'm gonna put this up on here.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So we should publish. I did a analysis of. Okay. So where were they now? And they were like all.

[Don Saladino]

So let's. Well, let's talk about this.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You.

[Don Saladino]

You had. There was a list of 15. 20 names.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yep.

[Don Saladino]

15 to 20 names that all went vegan.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yep.

[Don Saladino]

That were all claiming. Oh, this. And then what happened? There was a range. The range is anywhere from one to three years.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah.

[Don Saladino]

It was like every single name had either some type of bone break or ligament or tendon damage. Something went wrong.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Now reverted back.

[Don Saladino]

They all reverted back and they admitted to. But plant farms.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I'll. I'll find that. You know, I think from a foundational principle, nutrition is key. I think that you shouldn't be snacking. We really have to have defined meals. First meal, last meal. Nail it. Don't be. Don't be all over it. Don't be all over it.

[Don Saladino]

You all like grazing. Be like grazing and picking, but don't.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Be all over the place. Be disciplined. You asked me what was my first meal, Either I forget or I'll say it's a shake. It was a shake today.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. Well, you're on the road. You're also out of your comfort zone.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yes. Which is not great. But it's. But I know that that's coming. So I plan for it. I'm thinking, okay, so I'm going to instacart to the room. What do I need? But less chaos, more consistency is really important. One gram per pound, target body weight. You know, if you want, you could start with 100 grams of total carbs. If you are metabolically healthy, meaning you don't have weight to lose, don't have issues with triglycerides, don't have issues with blood sugar. If you're active, you earn your carbs.

[Don Saladino]

Sure. And Don Layman said that recently too. He's like, I'm giving you a recommendation, but as you're more active, you're gonna probably want to increase that.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. And I know this isn't really the point of this episode, but I want to share with you a new idea because I haven't really talked about it in the public so much. And the concept right now as we talk about obesity, you know, 30% body fat is you're now, you know, overweight or obese, and these percentages continue to go up. I have been thinking a lot about going back and reexamining these patterns and the repetition that we talk about things. And I was on the podcast with Melanie Cree, who's again that world leading expert of pcos, polycystic ovarian syndrome. And I said, you know, Melanie, who are the people that get better? What is their body fat percentage? And she's like, well, it doesn't matter their body fat percentage. It has to do with their intermuscular fat. And, you know, I don't want to throw.

[Don Saladino]

Can you define those differently, please?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So it's the fat that is in the muscle, it's not the subcutaneous fat. And I have this flash of insight, the same flash of insight that happened when I started the concept of muscle centric medicine. I think we're going to get to a place where body fat percentage is not the problem.

[Don Saladino]

Most important, right?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's the intermuscular fat. It's the quality of that muscle tissue. Do you have 5% intramuscular adipose tissue? Do you have 10% intermuscular?

[Don Saladino]

What's the best way to measure that?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Where it's ultrasound or mri? We don't do that routinely, but it's that. And I think part of being a good scientist and a good clinician is you have to go back and you have to challenge what is repeated over time. I mean, body fat percentage I think is just another marker.

[Don Saladino]

I challenge it. Sometimes I think that we get a little bit carried away. There's like, I'm always pretty lean and there's times during the year where I feel phenomenal, but body fat might come up a little bit. It's not a bad thing. People look at this though as if it is like, oh my God, you were at 6%, now you're at 8%. It might be a very good thing. Right?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's the wrong metric.

[Don Saladino]

I think it's the wrong metric also. I mean, it's, I think we obsess over it too. A little too much.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Totally.

[Don Saladino]

Very difficult to quantify.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But think about, think about the people that we know that are fit, that might not be super lean and their blood work looks great because they train and their diet's in check.

[Don Saladino]

Right?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And it's, I believe, because their muscle quality is so good versus the 50 year old woman who is small and lean, but she doesn't train and her muscle looks like a ribeye steak and her blood work is worse. It's this intramuscular adipose tissue that I think is going to be the next thing again. It's still in its infancy. There's only two labs in the country that I know that measure it, but I think that's the next thing.

[Don Saladino]

Strength training is a huge part of your life.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Oh my God.

[Don Saladino]

High intensity training is a huge part.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So, you know, I'm dressed kind of fancy right now. A little fancy. You better believe that. I had to stop in the gym in this outfit with. If you're listening to this, I'm wearing a black lace top and some shorts that are a little short and I'm sitting on my foot because my hamstrings are killing me. You better believe I walk down there like this. I did some rows.

[Don Saladino]

I love it.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

45 pound rows, one arm rows, a little bit of hip thrusts.

[Don Saladino]

No, you, you've, you've, you've lived it. You have to, you've, you've lived it and challenging. And I think not only from a muscular standpoint, but from a mental standpoint.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

No, it's.

[Don Saladino]

You talk about it. Yeah, 100%.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's a bi directional relationship. Strength is bidirectional.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. Can you explain that?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

A little physical strength begins, begets mental strength.

[Don Saladino]

Mental strength.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's a bidirectional relationship. A strong body cannot exist. With a weak mind. And a weak mind will never create a strong body.

[Don Saladino]

I think a lot of coaches actually got it wrong for years, because if someone wasn't training for a specific sport or something specific, they would always. I would have them turn to me and say, you don't have a goal. And I'd say, like, and I'm doing baseball. You have to have a goal. And I always disagree with them. I've gotten into arguments with them. I go, my goal is a feeling. My goal is whatever that program is and whatever I'm committing to is to leave there that given day feeling like I've challenged myself. And I've executed every repetition of the workout to the highest of my ability. And by doing that, there was a switch in my head.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I mean, I see it. I know when you are. I mean, you have that switch and you go to. I don't want to say a dark place, but you go to sometimes an intense place, and you have trained your body and mind to be able to do that 100%.

[Don Saladino]

But I think that we. I'm not saying everyone has to get there, but I think you have to train yourself.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Well, they do. And it's not about setting a goal. It's about setting a standard, standing a standard. And that's why you don't have goals. I don't have physical goals, but you better believe I have physical goals.

[Don Saladino]

No, but you're in there training like you. Like you do. Training for you is not about this or this. It's about this. I see you train with. She trains with this guy Carlos in Texas, who's a great coach. Great coach. Great facility. And when you go in there and I see your post and I see your pictures go up and I've seen you train.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Oh, yeah.

[Don Saladino]

You don't around.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I do not.

[Don Saladino]

No. This is. And even if it's. Even if you don't have time.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I didn't have time. I'm in my.

[Don Saladino]

You're like, I'm going.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Dress clothes. You better believe that. I'm thinking, okay, so I brought my gym shoes. What are we going to do? But it is about setting a physical standard.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I never want to be in a position where I'm not physically capable to do what needs to be done.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And maybe it's because we're a military family, or maybe it is. Whatever it is. But you better believe if there is an emergency, I am physically prepared. Prepared to be able to be able to lift both of my children. You know, you don't just train under duress you train when things are good so you can perform in uncertainty and chaos. You train in the good times. And I truly do believe this. And it is how, you know, in part, how I live my life. And I just have to think. And again, it might sound morbid, but we live in a tough environment, man.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, you never know what's gonna happen. We've seen some sick stuff.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Exactly. Preparation's important, so why wouldn't I be prepared to be able to physically move my children and them know how to execute that as well.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So that's why I train. I train for life, not for performance. You know, I wrote that ethos, which he liked, which I was very nervous to read, but it is. That's why we do things, because we, you know, we get better with adversity.

[Don Saladino]

Do you remember the ethos off the top of your head?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I can try.

[Don Saladino]

Give it to me.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

All right.

[Don Saladino]

This was. This was. This was strong.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

This is.

[Don Saladino]

Gabrielle.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You're always my barometer. I'll always.

[Don Saladino]

No, but Gabrielle. Gabrielle did this at her event a few weeks ago. But I think if you really listen to the words, I'll try. Try. And if I'm not expecting to hit it. This is tough.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Muscle is the organ of longevity. Strength is a responsibility, not a luxury. Aging is inevitable, but weakness is a choice. And then I don't remember the rest. Something about.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, well, we'll jump back into later. I can't believe you remember that much. But you started saying it. It started clicking in my head. I thought it was interesting, and I thought it set a strong example.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I mean, it is about. You know, I think it was. Parts of. It was through discipline and clear intention, we. I'll have to read it. But it's. The essence is, again, we have this idea that muscle as the metabolic organ is this vanity, this health thing. But it is the most unique organ system that we have because of its relationship to mental fortitude. If, you know, physical and mental freedom come from this again, this bidirectional relationship.

[Don Saladino]

People made fun of it for years. I mean, we see commercials out. We see people choking around, flexing. I'm like, it is so far beyond that, if you're really looking at it for the right reasons.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I mean, think about the Spartans.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Think about the gym, the gymnasium, the history of the gymnasium. People would get there and train naked. And it was this idea that it doesn't matter what your status was. You take everything off. I mean, I don't know what they did with certain body parts. I mean, that seems like That a broad jump would be really difficult or a box jump like man. But you know, there was a lot of respect for this physical prowess and strength. And we've lost that over the last hundred years.

[Don Saladino]

People are starting, you're starting to see some articles out there, CEOs, you know, fitness and strength and you know, I, I wonder, I, I am, I am starting to see people more self health conscious. I am starting to see more people drinking less. That's become a bit more accepted now, which I'm, I'm thrilled about.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Which you've been saying forever.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, but like I'm starting to see a turn for the positive.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And then there's one more layer to that and that is attributes and characteristics of how, you know. And I talk to you a lot about this, about how we live our life. Internal character is expressed externally by actions. And that might sound a little woo woo, which I'm not. I don't think that's woo woo. I mean I'm a fellowship trained doctor, married to a Navy SEAL surgeon. And there are really important aspects of health. We talk about it in buckets, but it's not. It is this interwoven thread through life that will create individuals that can make meaningful contributions. And that's what this is. It's about tuning out the noise, executing with a clear intention so that you can show up for your family.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. When you start looking at it that way, suddenly removing that vanity metric and really thinking about how that contribute to the.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's a standard. It's a standard, but it's a standard. And it takes a lot of introspection to be able to get there, to really get there, to really get there. From a character standpoint and a physical standpoint and a mental standpoint, it doesn't happen by accident.

[Don Saladino]

And even you believe it's got to be trained though, right? Sometimes. Yeah. This has to be trained.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It has to be trained mentally. There's a. Health doesn't happen by being passive. You don't build strength without intention and you don't become a better person by accident.

[Don Saladino]

No.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And all of those things take cultivation and they're not separate.

[Don Saladino]

That's where we're missing the mark though. I think, I think most people will think that that's something that they just have to have. Right. Like, oh, well, I want, I used to hear this all the time, Don, I just want to want it.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

When people say I just want to want it, they're not asking the right questions.

[Don Saladino]

Right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

There are other. It's, that's not the Right question.

[Don Saladino]

What would you say is the right question? You got to think about that a little bit. Right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Well, I mean, we are now in a world where I think the biggest disease is comfortable. I don't think it's heart disease. I don't think it's Alzheimer's disease. I think we have this deep disease of comfort and we don't even remember what it's like to be faced with challenges that are almost unsurmountable and we don't run towards those anymore. And so when someone asks, I just want to want it, they have been. They are in a disease of comfort.

[Don Saladino]

Right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And I guarantee you until they get out of it and until they begin to really put themselves in austere positions.

[Don Saladino]

It'S not going to change.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It will never change. And they will always want to want it.

[Don Saladino]

It's almost like a comment where someone's like giving up, like, I just don't have it.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But it's a disease of discomfort and it's so deep and it's so insidious that it. I guarantee you it is not just defined to training. It will. If you uncover the rocks in their life.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, it's probably other things. Yeah, yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

100, you know, and as a geriatrician, so the deal was in order for me to do nutritional sciences, I had to work as a geriatrician. You know that, right? Like that was.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, you did mention that.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

That was the deal. I did not want to do geriatrics. I'm like, are you kidding me? Facing death every day. Hard freaking paths. But in order for me to get fellowship, trained in nutrition, I had to do geriatrics, which is 65. And you do. There are weeks where you're doing end of life care. I'm seeing 30 dying patients a day. But in order to get the education I wanted, that was a sacrifice. Over time, there are things that you learn sitting with these people. And you know the biggest one, it's regret. Regret about the things that they didn't do and the actions that they never took and the life that they never led.

[Don Saladino]

Right. It's sad when you think about it now. It's like it's too late.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But what can we learn from our elders? What can we learn from them? And I think you've got to be able to train yourself to turn it on.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You have to making it count now.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. You got to do it. You got to go for it.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

You got to go for it.

[Don Saladino]

You got it. That's kind of where I want to kick it to the next. So we have, we have a couple guests that are going to ask us some live questions. By the way, there's no shot in hell. You're only coming on this once. So the, when you, when you eventually take another trip into New York, we're.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Just gonna plan it again. We really want to spend more time.

[Don Saladino]

With you guys and Mel and I and the kids. 100 and we're going to. But Chris, do we get to see the call? Yes. And I'd like to introduce you to Chris.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

This is amazing.

[Don Saladino]

Dr. Gabrielle Line. You know how special she is to me and I'm excited. Who do we have on today?

[C]

Scott. Scott is a challenger from Iowa. I'm going to go ahead and let Scott ask his question.

[Don Saladino]

So.

[C]

Go ahead, Scott.

[Don Saladino]

Hey, Scott. How are you, buddy?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Hey, Scott.

[D]

My question is I'm seven foot one. I recently changed careers from, I was working in physical therapy and now I actually work in a gym where I train lifeguards for rescues and stuff like that. So I'm active all the time. I run ultra marathons and I'm currently doing your Hellboy program as well. So on average, you know, I'll run eight to 10 miles a day and then spend four to five hours in a pool. So I can't put muscle mass on to save my life. Yes, that's my big problem.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. The amount of activity that you are doing is tremendous. And for you, it's going to be a calorie thing. Your overall calories are going to have to be tremendous. And, you know, you'll have to calculate kind of or get an idea of what that is and really begin to push those limits.

[D]

I started using carbon after I heard Don talk about it on his Instagram. So I've been tracking it that way.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

How many calories are you at?

[D]

And it says it's, it's still pretty low. I'm at about 3,500 a day and I need to be probably close to twice that.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I agree. And you will be very interesting because your percentage of protein will be high no matter what. For example, if you are at a 4,000 calorie diet, which is probably going to be too low for you. If I was a guessing woman, I would say it's probably closer to 6,000 calories. And for you, you're going to have to choose very nutrient dense foods. However, when I say nutrients, high, calorically dense foods. But the interesting thing is you will need carbs because you're going through so much glycogen and probably your diet will probably end up being 20% protein. But because your calories will be high enough, the overall number will be adequate.

[Don Saladino]

And listen, I think the challenge also becomes about what type of foods to consume. And I used to laugh because remember Michael Phelps when he was consuming his 12,000 calories a day, saying to go eat General Chow's chicken five times a day. But like, in a way, he had to, to get his calories so high. So what would you recommend? Because it starts getting difficult, like I said, eating sweet potato together, it's.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

It's impossible.

[Don Saladino]

You're not going to do it.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And this is actually something that we've talked about. You'll have to put together some kind of shake. This is where.

[Don Saladino]

Protocol or something.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yep. So this is where I would use. What were we using? For a while? We were using. Not dextrose. We were using some kind of soluble corn.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, we were using. It wasn't Vitargo or. No, it was Vitargo or you can. Or there was. There was some different carbon mixes that worked really well. We don't have any deals with these companies. We're just throwing it out there.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But calorie density is going to be your biggest thing. And I would also say choosing things that have a good nutrient profile. So I'm going to specify rather than what Michael Phelps was doing, which was a lot of calories. Calories is the first base level. But then there are things like, let's say you're doing a shake, but you're also adding in things like makia berry or anthocyanins, because you are generating a lot of inflammation reactive oxygen species to help your. To help your recovery. And what I would say is, you know, let's say it was. And I'm not saying pie filling. Right. I don't mean that. But something that is like tart cherry with carbs.

[Don Saladino]

You know what?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I get creative.

[Don Saladino]

You know what? Some of the ways that I get creative and please, like, I'm learning from you, honey.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So like honey.

[Don Saladino]

Oh, my God, that one. Manic or manicor makes a great honey. I'll use like dates.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yes.

[Don Saladino]

Because I can get.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

That's a great.

[Don Saladino]

I could consume five dates is almost 100 grams of carbs. And I can eat dates. Like, I can eat. So like five dates right there could.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Cover 100 grams of peanut butter. So I put. I really struggle to get calories in.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Because I'm moving around. I'm not thinking about it. And so what I do is I'll travel with dates with peanut butter.

[Don Saladino]

Obviously, getting in protein Shakes. But then, like, you know, I would get a little sweet potato, but it's not enough. Then I would get. No, it's not enough.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

What do you do for hockey?

[Don Saladino]

I would use like jasmine rice. I would. Hockey. Hockey. Honey. I use the. The honey. I'll still use oats, but I'll mix honey in it. I'll mix peanut butter, almond butter, and I'll make it into like a mud bowl. But like, you know what, too? Like, if I have to, let's say I had to hit 600 grams of carbs a day.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

My husband uses gel.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. What would you think about, like, don't yell at me for this, but like, like pierogies and stuff like that on top, right? Yeah, I like pierogies. Like, I would use that sometimes. My body would respond really well to it and I would never feel bloated.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I could see that.

[Don Saladino]

But it had a lot of potato and a little bit of pasta. So I would consume six pierogies was like 85 grams of carbs. So think about it. Six pierogies came out to like 85 grams of carbs. Then five dates came out to almost 100. That's almost 200 grams of carbs. Just from those two easy sources to.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Get down and say, if you're competitive, you're going to have to get really dialed in because it's. Again, we talked about how it's not going to happen haphazardly. You're going to have to really look at like, Don. You know, I've been working with him for years and I know hockey season we're hitting, I don't know, we might go 450 grams of carbs. And you better believe. Higher. Yeah, we're higher now.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[D]

Because there's a point last year where I ran a 100 mile race every weekend in September. So I ran 400 miles in the month of September, just on the weekends, and I dropped probably 15 pounds during.

[Don Saladino]

What happened to your body comp, do you feel like that you got softer?

[D]

I. I weaned out, so I don't think I lost muscle mass in terms of body composition wise, but I just dropped everything. Like, I felt weaker energy.

[Don Saladino]

That's a lot. How's your energy? Well, I just have to ask.

[D]

I mean, I. My energy stayed pretty consistent, but I could tell that like a weight. And running wise, I could, I could keep it up, but in the weights in the gym, I just couldn't push it.

[Don Saladino]

I think you got to be careful with Hellboy. Right. And what I would. What I Would recommend is some of the volume may have to taper back. And some of the bilateral work I would be careful with. I really think that you need to kind of gauge how you're feeling and more of the unilateral work. More of the split stance stuff. Some of the carries work that's in there I love because especially with the one arm asymmetrical work. Fantastic. I would just be careful with the volume and some of the heavier bilateral stuff isn't meant to fit in with that type of training. But again, I work with an ultra runner now for five years. We've had an incredible level of success with resistance training on top of running. She runs a lot. We have to gauge and we're in constant communication in my challenger group. I'm gonna. You know what I'm gonna do? I'm gonna. I'm gifting you my next challenge. I'm gifting you. I am gifting you. Sierra is going to reach out to Chris. I'm gifting you June. Okay. Because you'll be able to communicate with me five days a week in a group and I'm going to help you dial us in. In.

[D]

Okay, Sweet.

[Don Saladino]

It's on me. You're not paying for anything. She's going to gift you. I'm going to dial you in. I prize too much to go through. All right.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Can I say one more thing?

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. Go, please. It's perfect.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So you're jumping into suffering and I think that that's a lot of what we were talking about, this idea of pushing yourself and putting yourself into uncomfortable positions because that's. You can never plan for the chaos and uncertainty of life. But what you can do is prepare yourself and doing things like this. This sounds crazy. 100 miles. I have so much respect for that.

[Don Saladino]

A week. He did. He did through that month. He did 400 miles that month.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But that's really being able to dip into discomfort. And that's. I think that's what's really needed if we're going to change this culture that we're seeing. That's what we need.

[Don Saladino]

Scott, I love you for it, man. That's fantastic. I mean, the, the mental piece of it to me is the most important. Let's just hone in in a little bit right now and let's. You start. If you have that work ethic cave.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The pain cave. Right.

[Don Saladino]

Like that name, by the way.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The pain cave.

[Don Saladino]

Right, Scott, we, we. We got you.

[D]

Awesome. Thank you.

[Don Saladino]

All right. Pleasure, buddy. I. I love that. That's. That. That guy's wired 71 running 100. He said he ran an ultra every week on the weekend for four weeks.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But I bet you he's. He has to be someone who's probably planned his body to be. He must be 7 1, but he must. I don't even know.

[Don Saladino]

Never even heard of that. Seven foot one. That's like three feet taller than me.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

That's like right by me.

[Don Saladino]

Chris, who do you got next?

[C]

All right, coming up next, we have Michelle in Minnesota. And Michelle, I believe is a challenger as well. Michelle here you're on with with Gabrielle and Don.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Hi, Michelle.

[Don Saladino]

Hi, Michelle.

[E]

How are you?

[Don Saladino]

Awesome. Happy to have you on. And fire your question off. We'll let G take it. I might add my 2 cents. I'm not sure.

[E]

I have an eating disorder called arfid and it's like my diet is really restricted, so I miss out on a lot of like key nutrients and stuff that my body needs. But I was wondering, like, as I'm slowly venturing out into trying new foods and stuff, how can I create like a healthy eating habits that I can slowly work towards to maintain in the long run?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Well, first of all, Michelle, I have to say it's very brave of you to be approaching this head on. And some people spend their whole life never addressing it. So I have no doubt that you will be able to be successful with that.

[E]

Thank you.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So the biggest thing that I would say is that you choose a food that does not perpetuate any kind of trigger. Do you know what I mean? So sometimes so that. So you would have to dip your toe into it and it really should not be a very triggering food. So that might be a protein shake. That might be the one thing that you add in, but something very simple, non triggering. I'm really proud of you. It's tough.

[E]

Yeah, it is. And just like lately I've done. I've introduced like protein drinks and stuff.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Perfect.

[E]

But even that's hard to find stuff that I like.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So once you find it and it's good because you have access to it all online. Right. Then that would be the next step. So it's. You and I were in alignment with that next choice.

[Don Saladino]

I'm in alignment too. And at least I'm a part of it because I know she's part of the challenges. So you could communicate with me and we could talk about it a bit. And though Gabrielle's the real boss when it comes to this stuff, this is her wheelhouse, I think, just having me as a sounding board and kind of an accountability Tracker, you know what I'm saying?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Do you have a. Do you have a physician you're working with or a support system?

[E]

I don't have, like, a therapist or anything or like a dietitian or anything, but, like, my boyfriend and my parents really push me to do stuff.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Okay, well, just know that there's always help, and especially online, there are professional. There are things that are extremely cost effective that, you know, there is better help. There's all kinds of therapy that is available online for very low cost.

[Don Saladino]

Michelle, what. What we'll do is you can communicate with me, and if I have any questions, I'll bounce it off a G over here and we'll. We'll get back to you with a good resource. Okay. But I want you to keep in touch with us, all right? Okay. Good luck.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Bye, Michelle.

[Don Saladino]

Bye. Bye. Take care. Bye. Great seeing you.

[E]

You, too, sweetie.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

That's tough.

[Don Saladino]

It's tough. And I think a lot of people have to be careful in that situation, because even me, like, I. I wouldn't feel comfortable. Comfortable. You never know what's going to trigger what you're going to say or.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Oh, yeah, yeah, that's.

[Don Saladino]

That's someone. She needs to be speaking to someone.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah, yeah.

[Don Saladino]

Chris, you want to go hit the last one?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Do we have another question? The questions are fun. We love doing this.

[C]

Those are our two callers.

[Don Saladino]

That was it. Perfect.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Chris, do you have a question?

[Don Saladino]

Chris, do you have a. Yeah, I do have a question. I do have a question. I fired off quick.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yes.

[C]

How do you recommend for someone, myself, who is a social drinker? You know, a lot of my social activities revolve around, you know, going out and having a margarita, you know, a few times a week, or, you know, doing things. I. I'm trying to figure out how to be more responsible.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I love that with.

[C]

With alcohol, because I'm 42, and as I'm getting older, I just know that it sets me back.

[Don Saladino]

It's hard.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Yeah. I love this.

[C]

And so I'm trying to think through, you know, you talked about suffering, you know, in regards to, you know, kind of, I don't know, suffering and comfort.

[Don Saladino]

Right.

[C]

And I know that alcohol plays so much into comfort and trying to comfort ourselves, and I just wanted to kind of hear you talk about that.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I love this question. I love this question. You are. By thinking about it in this way, you're actually preparing for what you know is coming. Yeah. You know, the days that you go out and, you know, when you're going to be going out, you're Going to interface with the desire to dress.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The thing that I would say to do is, number one, the first thing that you're doing is asking the question is run through the scenario with visualization. You have to have a plan so that you can withstand contact with the enemy. You have to game plan it out now. So the question would be, you know you're going out, what day is today? Monday, Tuesday. Monday. So when do you go out next?

[C]

I'd say probably.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Probably?

[C]

Yeah, let's say Thursday.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And you know where you're going and you know the time you go.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And you know exactly who comes over and asks you for, do you want a drink?

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So now you have to think, what's the next thing that you're going to do? So if you're playing this through and you're practicing before, if you can practice before you get into the situation, you'll be ready to engage in it.

[C]

Now let me ask you this. My brother in law is coming into town in July and July 4th.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But wait, wait, are we skipping through the margarita? Because I want you to practice this, this. Because it's happening Thursday.

[C]

This is related.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

This is related. I'm ready.

[C]

So, so, so my brother in law is coming in around July 4th, and we have a tradition of, of enjoying tiki cocktails. And so in my mind I'm thinking like, okay, well I want to have at least one or two with him at that period of time. Is it the same thing of thinking through, like when can I have a drink? Or is it always trying to restrict?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Nope. Now you gotta come up with a, a contract and a standard you make for yourself. And we do it now.

[Don Saladino]

Now.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So the deal is how many drinks are you going to have? What is going to be contractually, what are you, what are you good with? And that's. And, and you follow that. And if you don't follow it, you have a consequence.

[Don Saladino]

Chris, Chris, she's, she's right about this. I'm not, you know, I'm not a drinker. There's three times a year, while I might indulge, I can tell you right now when I go to Switzerland, because I love the beer, right. There's a, there's a holiday trip to Nashville and in one Christmas dinner that we have, so it's literally three times a year, I might have a couple beers. That's kind of my deal. I don't exceed that. I don't want to exceed that. What she's saying right now is come up with a contract in your head. I'm not going to stop.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Guardrails.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, there's got to be some. There's got to be some structure here.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Chris, how many drinks are you going to have on Thursday?

[C]

On Thursday? Well, I was going to say zero.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Is that. Is that going to be realistic?

[Don Saladino]

Is that realistic?

[C]

I think it's realistic for Thursday.

[Don Saladino]

Great. So it's zero.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

So you plan it. But you can't just say you're gonna have zero. So you have to plan in your mind that this is what you're wearing. You're going to this bar, this is the person that asks you. You see yourself ordering one drink. And now the other thing that I want you to do is if you choose not to do that, you're 42 right now. Every time you make that choice to have that drink or do the thing that you know is not in alignment, what is your life going to look like from a year from now continuing to make that choice?

[C]

And what is my life going to look like a year from now or five years from now or ten years from now?

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

But you're only surface answering that. I'll give you an example. There was a period of time where I had just had my baby, so my first daughter, or my only daughter, but my daughter. And I was, for whatever reason I was obsessing about what people were thinking. It wasn't. Maybe it was like postpartum or something.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I was spending so much time doing that that I wasn't accomplishing the things that I needed to do. Maybe it was a way of being stressed out or whatever it was. But if I had continued that behavior then for another year, I would never be able to get my book done. I would never be the consequences and the outcomes were so devastating that if I couldn't enforce some kind of discernment on what I was doing and the thoughts I was having, I was never going to be able to reach the targets that I wanted. And that is. That's devastating. So if you know that on Thursday you actually have more than one drink and you know that drinking, we know it's a risk factor for Alzheimer's. You have a greater than a 17 and a half inch neck by looking at you, which means by definition you probably have sleep apnea. You combine that with all of those things. If your dad had any kind of heart disease or vascular dementia, that is the direction you're going. All right, so the question is, how many drinks are you gonna have on Thursday? Probably one or none. But whatever it is you plan and then you plan for the alternative. Maybe you're gonna have a Diet Coke. I don't care. But you have to put something in place.

[Don Saladino]

I'll check with you on Friday.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Chris, I know that was an intense answer. I know that was an intense answer. But if you really want movement, you really want a strategy to get it done. That is the strategy to get done. I've been doing this for a long time as a doc.

[Don Saladino]

Great. So it's so tough with you to cover one topic. Right. So today I really just wanted to almost do an overview of who you are. And you know what? It really did go in a phenomenal direction because what do we end up talking about? Protein and overall strength. Health. Well, being.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

Building Better humans. Becoming more resilient.

[Don Saladino]

That's it.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And having character.

[Don Saladino]

Yeah. Which is so important. And I think in this day and age, it's almost overlooked. We're looking too much at the numbers and we're not really looking at the person. And it's. Honestly, at the end of the. At the end of the day, we were at hour 45 into this recording.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

We could talk forever.

[Don Saladino]

We could have. It's. It's a sickness because we can just keep going and going.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

We are hilarious. I was like, okay, bye. I call you in the morning.

[Don Saladino]

That's kind of how we end up. Someone's here. Bye. Click. I love you. And I'm. And I'm. And I want to close it on that. I'm grateful. People will never understand how important you are to Mel and I and my kids and. And just. We got a lot to do, so. Thank you for. Thank you for this today.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

I always have your back. And I have to say, you are one of the most special humans I know.

[Don Saladino]

Thank you.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

And I. I would say I believe in you. Thank you. And I know what you're here to do.

[Don Saladino]

Give you a hug when we get out of the chair. Thanks, guys. The views, information or opinions expressed in.

[Dr. Gabrielle Lyon]

The series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Chip and Joanna Gaines. By no Audio nor Magnolia.