Dr. Rebecca Robbins | Sleep Expert Reveals How to Improve Your Sleep

Summary

Stronger with Don Saladino: Episode Summary Featuring Dr. Rebecca Robbins

Episode: Dr. Rebecca Robbins | Sleep Expert Reveals How to Improve Your Sleep
Release Date: July 1, 2025
Host: Don Saladino
Guest: Dr. Rebecca Robbins, Renowned Sleep Scientist and Harvard Professor

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1. Introduction

In this enlightening episode of Stronger with Don Saladino, fitness coach Don Saladino welcomes Dr. Rebecca Robbins, a distinguished sleep scientist and Harvard professor. Together, they delve deep into the multifaceted world of sleep, exploring its profound impact on overall health, productivity, and well-being.

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2. Understanding Sleep: More Than Just Duration

Dr. Robbins emphasizes that sleep is much more intricate than simply the number of hours one clocks in bed. She explains that the brain remains highly active during certain sleep stages, facilitating memory consolidation and mental restoration.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins [02:34]: "What's fascinating is that there's so much activity in the brain during sleep, as much as, if not more so, than when we're awake in certain stages."

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3. Common Misconceptions about Sleep

Both Don and Griffin highlight prevalent myths surrounding sleep, such as the glorification of minimal sleep hours. Dr. Robbins debunks the notion that some individuals can thrive on as little as three to four hours of sleep, clarifying that this is an exceedingly rare exception.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins [06:37]: "Only a very small percent—rounded to the nearest whole number—of our population can truly function optimally on less than the recommended seven to nine hours of sleep."

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4. Importance of Sleep Consistency

Consistency in sleep schedules is paramount. Dr. Robbins explains how a regular bedtime and wake-up time reinforce the body's circadian rhythm, enhancing sleep quality and overall health.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins [17:00]: "When we're keeping a consistent bedtime schedule, we're giving our circadian rhythm internal cues on when to be tired and when to be alert."

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5. Optimizing Your Sleep Environment

a. Mattresses and Pillows

Investing in quality bedding is crucial. Dr. Robbins shares insights on selecting the right mattress and pillow based on sleeping positions to prevent discomfort and promote restful sleep.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins [23:55]: "The bed itself is the foundation of your sleep. Investing in your mattress is key because it's setting you up for success."

b. Temperature and Light

Maintaining an optimal bedroom environment—cool, dark, and quiet—facilitates better sleep. Strategies include using blackout curtains, white noise machines, and eye masks.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins [19:07]: "Protect your bedroom from morning and evening light. Use blackout shades and consider white noise machines to minimize disruptions."

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6. Nutritional Factors Affecting Sleep

Dr. Robbins discusses the intricate relationship between diet and sleep quality. She highlights the benefits of meal timing, such as intermittent fasting, and how insufficient sleep can disrupt hormones like leptin, affecting appetite and weight management.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins [33:05]: "When we're sleep deprived, leptin is reduced by about 20%, limiting our ability to recognize fullness and manage our appetite effectively."

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7. Relaxation Techniques and Bedtime Routines

Establishing a calming pre-sleep routine is essential. Dr. Robbins recommends activities like progressive muscle relaxation, mindful breathing, and engaging in soothing rituals to signal the body that it's time to wind down.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins [36:20]: "Fill the moments before sleep with things that soothe you—reading a book, taking a warm bath, or practicing relaxation exercises can significantly enhance sleep quality."

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8. Dealing with Sleep Inconsistencies

Life’s unpredictability can disrupt sleep schedules. Dr. Robbins advises maintaining a strong sleep foundation by returning to consistent habits even after occasional bad nights, reinforcing the body's natural sleep pressure.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins [49:49]: "If you've had a bad night, the next night is an opportunity to get back on track because you've built a foundation that supports better sleep."

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9. Sleep Training for New Parents

Addressing the challenges of sleep with infants, Dr. Robbins offers strategies for new parents to optimize their sleep amidst the chaos of newborn care. She advocates for consistent bedtime routines and gradual sleep training to help children develop healthy sleep habits.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins [51:23]: "Cultivating your child's relaxation response through consistent routines helps them understand that bedtime is linked to sleep, fostering better sleep habits over time."

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10. Concluding Insights

Dr. Robbins underscores the importance of viewing sleep as a critical component of overall health and success. She encourages listeners to prioritize sleep hygiene, invest in their sleep environment, and adopt relaxation techniques to enhance their well-being.

Dr. Rebecca Robbins [40:27]: "Investing just 20 minutes at the end of the night to wind down can pay significant dividends in your sleep quality and daily performance."

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Notable Quotes

• Dr. Rebecca Robbins [00:05]: "Phones are for connection, but we look at them more than we look at each other. That's ironic."

• Dr. Rebecca Robbins [02:34]: "There's so much activity in the brain during sleep, as much as, if not more so, than when we're awake in certain stages."

• Griffin [04:03]: "Imagine waking up every day and feeling good. Imagine actually going to work and feeling enthusiastic about your job."

• Dr. Rebecca Robbins [17:05]: "Circadian refers to processes in the brain and body that oscillate in an approximate 24-hour cycle."

• Dr. Rebecca Robbins [35:10]: "It's not like that. They're intertwined at almost the hormonal level, affecting appetite and weight management."

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Final Thoughts

This episode of Stronger with Don Saladino provides a comprehensive exploration of sleep from a scientific and practical perspective. Dr. Rebecca Robbins offers valuable insights and actionable strategies to help listeners enhance their sleep quality, ultimately contributing to stronger mental and physical health.

For more information on Dr. Rebecca Robbins and her work, visit her website or follow her on Instagram at @DrRebeccaRobbins.

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Let's get stronger—together.

Transcript

[Don Saladino]

David.

[Griffin]

Yes. Have you ever noticed that the way.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

We use our phones is ironic? Phones are for connection, but we look at them more than we look at each other. That's ironic.

[Griffin]

Griffin, it's like rain on your wedding day.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Listen. That's ironic.

[Griffin]

So U.S. cellular created U.S. mode to.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Help us reconnect, you and I. That's right. A phone company wanting people to use.

[Griffin]

Their phones, less ironic.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

A phone company wanting people to use their phones, less ironic. But let's find US again with US mode from US Cellular. Visit uscellular.com built for us to get started.

[Griffin]

What are the other things that are ironic?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Blind Nil Audio. I always laugh because I think people are more likely to spend money on shoes, right? Or, you know, a coat, a new coat than your mattress. And you're spending a third of your time in your lifetime on this space. 20% of the population had a mattress for 10 or more years. And we generally recommend to refresh mattresses every, you know, eight years.

[Griffin]

I think I gotta get one, like every two or three years now because I'm always finding a new brand that I like. And I'm like, my wife's gonna kill me. I've got a mattress literally standing up against our wall right now because I just got another one in to try. She's like, what are you doing? I mean, we've got like 15.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I love it.

[Griffin]

Welcome to Stronger on Today's show is Dr. Rebecca Robbins. Rebecca is a renowned sleep scientist, and I can't think of anything more important to our physical well being than getting a good night's sleep. I'm Don Saladino. Let's get stronger with Dr. Rebecca Robbins. You have no idea how excited I am to have you on right now. Seriously. I think when it comes to sleep, you're like. You're like the queen of sleep when I think of that. So anytime someone asks me, who's the person to listen to, I can't tell you how many times I say your name. And what's crazy is that this is the first time that we're meeting in person, which is just so crazy about social media now because you feel like you know people so wild. Even when you walked in, I was like, oh, my God. I'm like, when's the last time I saw you? And you're like, tom, we've never met in person.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Which is kind of cool, right? That all these tools can help you build relationships with people.

[Griffin]

That's what's amazing about it. So you're so getting just quick on your background. So you are a sleep scientist, but you're also a professor at Harvard. In reference to sleep diving in real quickly, what do you think are some of the misconceptions? I want people to hear you speak a little bit and then I'll get in your background. But what are some of the misconceptions? I think most people when thinking about sleep, what are their misconceptions?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

It turns out that there are quite a few. One of the biggest is that our head hits the pillow and that we're done. We're out like a light and we're just asleep and it's this black box and it's a drag, right? We can't do anything. What a waste of time. But all of the research is showing wrong that there's so much activity in the brain, as much as, if not more so than we're awake in certain stages, which is fascinating. And so we learn things during the day and then over the course of our sleep at night, we rehearse and repeat those events and we transfer them from short term to longer term storage and memory. And so all of what I was reading in graduate school, it just kind of blew my mind. And it was a smaller field at the time. It still is relatively small, the field of sleep medicine. It's growing, but it just is really exciting because of all these fascinating things that happen in the body and in the brain. Another really good example, when we sleep during deep stage three sleep, our body enters the closest thing to hibernation as a human being. The pens of the electrodes start to slow and indicating that there's really very little that's happening in the brain. And the body enters this total period of relaxation and restoration. Our body temperature drops to the lowest point in the 24 hour day and our heart rate drops to the lowest point in the 24 hour day during this stage of sleep. And that dipping of our blood pressure is vitally important because then we're able to wake up and better able to maintain a healthy blood pressure.

[Griffin]

But it's what's fascinating to me is how, how you're speaking about it right now. You don't, there's not people speaking about this. I don't hear enough doctors speaking about it. They're almost making suggestions like, oh, you know, don't drink caffeine late in the day. And you're like, that's a great suggestion by the way. But you know, there's, there's so much more here. I'll never forget 25, 26 years ago when I was reading There was a wellness expert. His name was Paul Check. He was kind of like an old school guru. And he was talking about body compos. And they're like, what's the best fat burner? And he turns around, he goes, sleep, and it's free. And he used that line. And I remember hearing it, and I remember I was a young guy. I mean, I'm going to be 48 soon. So I was, you know, you're talking about 22, 23 years old learning from this person. But was he correct? And I cannot tell you how many people I've even seen from a, from a body comp standpoint, which is like, for me, there's so many other important things when you're talking about heart health and blood pressure and cognitive benefits to sleep energy. Okay, Imagine waking up every day and feeling good. Imagine actually going to work and feeling enthusiastic about your job. Think about what we can, you know, do from a productivity standpoint. But again, you said it earlier, it should. These are things that should be starting at a very young age. You know this, our school systems, my kids now are 17 and 16. But your kids are young. Why aren't they going to start addressing this at a young age? Maybe in elementary school or are they starting to do that?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I really hope so. We, my group at the Harvard Medical School and Women's Hospital do a lot of speaking. We're part of something called the Sleep Matters initiative, where scientists and physicians that travel all over the country to talk about sleep and we make school systems a priority. But change takes a long time to take effect. So we're hoping that these small efforts will hopefully make an impact and start to change and empower more and more of our young people with this information that will do a world of good to them as they develop into adulthood.

[Griffin]

Well, what about, I mean, so someone's listening to this podcast and they don't know where to start. I mean, these are the basic things. I know you've answered a million times, but can you start debunking the process on maybe what you think people should be following? Because again, this is. There is no most important thing to focus on. But this. I would put this up there as maybe one, if not two, sleep quality.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Some of the things that really are beneficial when it comes to our sleep is the age old duration. We talk about this so often. It is a range somewhere between seven and nine hours. And right now we don't yet have a magic bullet for. What about the people getting all the benefits?

[Griffin]

I mean, isn't that Nonsense.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I mean, what do you think about those people? I think we're slowly starting to change. But that had for so long been such a badge of honor. People say, you know, oh, look at me, I can sleep. I sleep for four hours and I get so much done. And I think only finally recently are we starting to realize that that really is a myth. There are individuals who are, we think, genetic anomalies who are able to really get four or five hours of sleep. And really, if I brought them into the laboratory and we did a full health kind of workup, if they were really getting that much sleep and healthy, that person or those people at the population level are really zero. If you round to the nearest percent is a percent of our population and number of individuals that could really, we know, have a good health profile, truly, fundamentally need less than the recommended seven to nine hours, rounded to the nearest whole number, as a percent of the population would be zero. Because there are very few and many.

[Griffin]

There's so much to cover. So a lot of these people who claim that they don't need that seven to nine hours, I mean, they're. I feel like they're also built a little differently in the sense of they know how to push. They might be someone that could just wake up and fight through it. And they're used to fighting through it. They think they don't need it. But what I found is a lot of them do need it. And I've had, back in my training days when I was working with people, I had several clients that weren't getting any sleep. They were eating beautifully, had chefs, had a coach, were doing everything they needed to do. And then they started putting on like significant amount of. Significant amount of body fat because they weren't resting. So they thought, well, my doctor says I can get away with three to four hours. The reality is they really couldn't because when they started changing their ways, they started seeing an immediate fast loss. They started seeing an improvement to their energy, and excuse my language, but they turned to me and they said, wow, I didn't know how shitty I was feeling until I actually feel really good.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Do you find that that's probably statistically more out there of people who just know how to fight their way through it, and they're not one of that small percentage of people who can get away with getting three or four hours of sleep?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Absolutely. And again, rounded to the nearest whole number, that percent of our population that really needs biologically less than the recommended seven to nine hours is a very small percent. But I Think that unfortunately, societally and kind of culturally, we valorized sleep deprivation and kind of clustered it with success. And so the idea of, you know, I'm not sleep, I'm an executive, I'm important, I'm busy. And the idea that I can kind of get everything done, get my workout in, get my exercise, get my nutrition in check. Yeah. I think for so long, we've kind of valorized this idea of short sleep being part of the performance equation. And I dream of a day where we can flip that on its head, where we can each instead celebrate how much sleep we got and how good we feel. And I loved your comments. And there really are so many people that I think have resigned themselves to just waking up lethargic, having to set a bunch of snooze alarms, and drag themselves out of bed with a siren alarm, and then fill up a big coffee. But what's so powerful about sleep, I loved the comment from one of your mentors, is it's free, and it starts tonight if you're motivated. And the motivation piece is key because just like exercise, just like nutrition, good sleep does take motivation. And I think that that piece is something that not many people fully understand. I think that we understand. You know, I go to the gym and I have to work hard at, like, I need to work hard at my nutrition, my exercise. But we want sleep to be easy. We want to be able. We want to go out for dinner and have wine and then have a late coffee or an espresso after dinner and then run a report and then go right to bed.

[Griffin]

We should work that way, right?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Spoiler alert. It doesn't. And we really can't sleep on demand. And so it's almost this really beautiful litmus test of how well you're doing a lot of the other things in your life. Well, because we know exercise is great for us. Is alcohol not necessarily, you know, caffeine late in the day, you know, not necessarily. But a lot of those things will limit our ability to get good sleep. And stress management is another one if we're not kind of devoting time over the course of our day to pay back some of the consequences of stress. And they could be little, you know, someone who cut you off on the street or, you know, interaction at a coffee shop. That was.

[Griffin]

Wears on you.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

It does.

[Griffin]

And we could see it now through. Through, you know, oura ring now. I mean, it's. It's funny because I'm waking up every day and I'm like, oh, well, I think I slept well. And then out of nowhere you could start connecting those behavioral changes from the day before, even two days before, you know, in reference to how you're sleeping. So, you know, out of nowhere it's like, oh, wow, I thought I slept well. But it's showing me that my deep and my REM was really low and I was very rest. There was a lot of restlessness going on. What was going on? And then suddenly you're like, wait a second, I was on YouTube late last night.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Yes.

[Griffin]

Or wait a second, maybe I didn't wear my red light blocker, blue light blockers and you start, oh, coffee, too late. Exactly. So these really have to be practiced. I mean this. Sometimes people get home and they want to throw the TV on and just sit in bed. And I know, listen, I'm victim to that. If there's any, if there's any downfall I have when it comes to my sleep is my relaxation times. I get into bed with my wife and we like to watch tv. I also know when I don't do.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

That, we're just going to change that little tiny. I want you to do that stuff with your wife just out of bed, please.

[Griffin]

Yeah, exactly, exactly. And that's not like we shouldn't be doing that, we should be doing that downstairs.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

It's like you have everything right in your, you know, we've, you know, we've talked a lot about sleep. You're extremely well, you know, educated and, and studied in all these things. You're doing everything right. And look, if that is something that really you and your wife look forward to and you don't find that it negatively impacts your sleep, I'm not gonna sit here and be like, get out of bed and change your evening routine.

[Griffin]

But there's other things you can do.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Totally, totally. I would only say that if. And all of this stuff. I think one of the challenges that some of us do have in our population that are performance driven, that are type A is we kind of over hack our life. And when it comes to sleep is, you know, I want you. I loved your comments. I want you to wake up and feel good.

[Griffin]

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[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

So really it's a constellation of things that are good for our sleep. And the way I like to think about this is pick and choose things. If you're interested in improving your sleep or optimizing your rest a little bit more, or you're struggling and you're looking for a place to start, think of this as like a checklist. And if you go through these and if you're able to implement all of them, wonderful. But also think about all of it. It's not, you know, if your sleep is fine and you just wanna make a couple improvements, you don't have to do everything all at once, but things that we know to be good for sleep. Number one, there is no exception to just getting enough sleep. Ideally, targeting that 7 to 9 range and figuring out where you are on that range takes a little bit of workshopping because we think it's in part genetically determined. And so if you had two parents that were seven hour sleepers, you know, got seven hours and did fine, then you might be a lucky, lucky one to do well on that lower end of the spectrum. But if you had two longer sleeping parents, you might really need closer to nine. And so you want to kind of move in the direction of that window. If you're far from there, say you're getting six hours you know, someone who's out there listening. Move slowly. We can't make sweeping changes in our sleep schedules. So start by adding simply 15 minutes to the process. Go to bed 15 minutes earlier. And what I mean by that is really start the process to bed 15 minutes earlier. If you're accustomed to trying to fall asleep at 11 o' clock and you'd like to turn off your screens, turn off the television and go upstairs by 10:45, just start that 15 minutes earlier. So start the process at 10:30 and then the next night 10:15 and maybe 10:00 clock the next night and maybe set an alarm because our behavior can get mindless at night and suddenly time flies and you've watched another Netflix episode and you oh yeah, it happens.

[Griffin]

It's happened all the time.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

We've all been there.

[Griffin]

Yeah, we've all been there.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

But I'm a big believer in, you don't want the siren alarm, right? Something that's gonna raise your cortisol, but you want something that's soothing. Maybe set an alarm to kind of really just be, pull you out whatever you're doing and try to get you in the process towards sleep. So this process of moving your bedtime earlier and earlier can simply add a little bit more sleep. And then whether you're using a tracker or making notes on paper and pencil about your sleep, then just kind of check in. Are you getting eight hours consistently and are you feeling good? You get out of bed not feeling like you have to hit this news alarm. And one of the key questions is the afternoon. If you're able to power through the afternoon without caffeine or feeling like you're dragging, then you've probably hit your target sleep need. And the goal will then be to try to get that every night. The second thing that's as important, if not more so than duration, is consistency. This is another thing we tell our kids bedtimes. We think they're for kids, but they're really for all of us because of our internal circadian rhythm. Circadian is a word that's from Latin. It refers to circadies, or about a day. And it refers to processes in the brain and the body that oscillate in an approximate 24 hour cycle, which is the pattern of light and darkness. And one day here on Earth and over hundreds of thousands of years, we've adapted as human beings to life on earth and organizing ourselves within a 24 hour day.

[Griffin]

What about things with like supplementing in red light first thing in the morning? Like, is there any benefit to doing that if you're not. If you have to wake up early and you're not getting that light exposure first thing, which. What are all the. The experts saying now? It's like, well, go walk on your grass barefooted and absorb the light first and don't check your phone and do all these things that for a lot of people working and hustling first thing in the morning, they don't really have the opportunity to do that. So.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

Have you. Is there any way to hack that through red light or are you like, no.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Well, this actually comes back. We could maybe kind of frame this from the myth standpoint because you were really curious, what are the top myths about our sleep? And one of them is that timing really matters of your sleep within a 24 hour day. And truly, if you're able to first and foremost protect your bedroom from morning light or evening light, if you can walk into your bedroom, if you have thick curtains, and I don't think this stuff has to break the bank, you can go to Target and get blackout shades that kind of you can tack to your curtains. But you want your bedroom environment when you walk into it for bedtime. You want it to be cool, dark, and quiet. And we can't always confirm or guarantee quiet, especially in a busy place like this in New York City. But white noise machines can help you. The goal is to just kind of cancel out any intermittent noise as much as possible. But then dark is a really big one because our eyelids are some of the thinnest pieces of skin on our body. And so being able to go into an environment that's dark as you approach bedtime is key. And then I don't necessarily care when you sleep, as long as you're able to sleep in a dark, quiet place and get enough sleep and wake up and then get some light exposure. But if you're not able to get natural light exposure, like so many people who are up early hustling, you know, hopefully going to bed early, but waking up early, starting their day. In that case, there are light boxes that you can buy and put them on your desk and you wouldn't stare at them any more than you would the sun. But some of these light boxes can give you that little burst of light exposure that can help close off kind of the flow of melatonin and help help press the on switch to your circadian rhythm.

[Griffin]

Interesting. How about eye masks? People wearing those, do you find those beneficial?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Those are wonderful. And what I love about eye masks, and if you find that noise disrupts You, I'd find also earplugs that you like to use, and try to use those as much as you can. And then what I like about those two things is they're elements that you can then bring with you on the road when you travel. And I'd encourage you pick an eye mask that you love that you can again, travel with earplugs that you like. And some people like to fall asleep with white noise. And there are a ton of smartphone applications that can offer white noise.

[Griffin]

They're also selling now these. These earbuds that let off specific noises and sounds that. Oh, God. What was the name of the company? Okay, I'm very blank right. Right now. But I actually experimented with it.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

And how'd it go?

[Griffin]

At first I didn't like it, and then I did see a big spike in my sleep quality. It improved, and I actually started bringing with me on planes when I had to be on red eyes because I know the engine noise always keeps me up. And I would put these in and it would get me to relax and I'd get a better sleep on.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I love that, especially for people that travel a lot, to have tools kind of in your toolkit that you can rest assured you've tested them out. This is a great story about earplugs or earbuds and making sure that they're things that, you know, soothe you. And then because one of the things when we travel, we actually have something that we refer to in sleep medicine as the first night effect. So when you're traveling, our brains are just a little bit more on high alert. And you really have to look for a hotel that has your sleep in mind and has, you know, pillows that they've thought through. And, you know, they talk about sleep ideally on their website. They care about. About it. So few hotels really do. And I always laugh about this and like, this is a place to sleep. Why aren't we drawing more attention to the guest room? But you just can't always be assured that you are going to have a good kind of sleep setup when you're. When you're traveling. So bringing those things with you is key so that you can take that good night's rest on the road.

[Griffin]

A lot of these wellness hotels are starting to think differently on this. It kind of segues me into my next topic here. When it comes down to room temperature, mattresses, pillows. It's ironic. I feel like we're just. It's always all. It depends. And when someone. When we mattress shop now, it is like almost Impossible. You're not going into a showroom with 10 different mattress brands and laying down and being like, hey, what do I. It's like, oh, that sounds interesting. I'm gonna get a brighter, I'm gonna get a Casper or so. These are obviously reputable brands, but how do you. Hastings. I go another mattress company I went and checked out recently. It's like an $80,000 mattress. It's insane. And people are like, that's crazy. And then I started thinking, and I was like, well, wait a second. My car costs me more than that. I sleep. One third of my time in my life is going to be sleep. I'm not going to spend 80 grand on a mattress. But are we being stupid by not thinking that way? If you told me right now that I have to spend $80,000 on a mattress, and it would guarantee me a 30% improvement to my sleep every night, I don't care if I couldn't afford it, I would finance it. Seriously.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Right, but how mattresses.

[Griffin]

Someone's going out and spending, you know, $100,000 on a new pickup truck or $150,000 on a Mercedes, and then suddenly a mattress company is trying to sell something for 10 grand, and they're saying, well, that's expensive. Where are your priorities?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I always laugh because I think people are more likely to spend money on shoes, right? Or, you know, a coat, a new coat than your mattress, and you're spending a third of your time and in your lifet. I think the bottom line is you want to walk into your bedroom and feel soothed and have the decor be relaxing to you. Colors that calm you down, elements that stress you, get them out of the bedroom. If it's an electronic or a bright light, you can put some painter's tape over any cable boxes or any sources of light. But I think there are so many inexpensive ways to really sleep proof your bedroom environment. But then the bed itself is the foundation of your sleep. And ye. I always laugh because, again, people will, I feel like, spend more money on shoes or purses than their mattress. And investing in your mattress is key because it's, again, really gonna set you up for success. It's a place where we spend so much time, and then the temperature and the airflow of that mattress are really vitally important because during certain stages of sleep, we're not able to regulate our temperature. So if you're in an environment that's not promoting airflow, then during those stages of sleep where you're not able to thermal regulate, you're probably gonna wake up in a sweat.

[Griffin]

So what are you supposed to do? Are going to a bunch of different mattress shops and just lay down and say, all right, this is comfortable? Or are there things. Are there characteristics to that mattress that you would recommend? People looking at like, is it a thermoregulated mattress? Some of these mattresses now are. Are pumping out cold air. I've tried it, and I didn't like the noise from the machine that was pumping out cool air. Now they have these breathable mattresses. Like, where do you. Where do you start? And what are some of the things you should look at?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

It can be very confusing because there are so many players on the market to someone who's interested in getting a new mattress. But we published a study recently. It was of adults in the US and we found that there were 20% of the population had a mattress for 10 or more years. And we generally recommend to refresh mattresses every, you know, eight years.

[Griffin]

I think I gotta get one, like, every two or three years now. Cause I'm always finding a new brand that I like. And I'm like, my wife's gonna kill me. I've got a mattress literally standing up against our wall right now because I just got another one to try. She's like, what are you doing? I mean, we've got like 15 mattresses.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

It's great. I love it. That's wonderful. You know, if you're able to refresh, it's just. It's terrific because you take your body weight, you put every night moving around, and these really are not meant to last forever. So refreshing them routinely. But the other thing.

[Griffin]

So you recommend five years?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Oh, no. I'd say anywhere between a good mattress will last you about eight years, depending on the manufacturer. But 10 or more years is maybe in a category that maybe is a little bit too old. But you really want to ask yourself one question. Do you look forward to getting into your bed? If it's no, then I'd say maybe it's time to swap. But the other key thing, if you've had a mattress for a while, it's probably going to not be as supportive as it was when you bought it, and you might be waking up with neck pain. So those two things are good questions to ask yourself. If you're like, I think I could improve. But especially if you're experiencing any sort of pain because of your mattress, then that's a great time to change. The other thing we found from the study is that only about 6 out of 10 people were satisfied with their mattress. So there's a big opportunity to move the needle, I think promote awareness about mattresses being such a critical part of your sleep. And it is very personal. And there are so many options on the market, which is wonderful on one hand, but then also very paralyzing I think, on the other hand, because people are like, where do I start? You want to be able to go to a store and try out some different options. And only by trying options will you find the one that you keep coming back to and that you feel the coziest on and, you know, ready to fall asleep. And then you found yourself.

[Griffin]

Pillows are preference too. Right. I mean, that's also a reason why I think it's so confusing. It's, you know, at least in the supplement market, you can do things that are third party tested. And, you know, this doctor recommends X, Y or Z pillows really comes down to like, I have a, I have a pillow right now I don't like. I just ordered new pillows. That's taken like a month for it to show up. I'm like, where are my new pillows? And they've been so excited to get new pillows. But it's, it's, it's these things. There are things to think about too, in reference to what breathability, thickness of pillow, what if the pillow's too thick? If it's too thin, could that change our sleep quality?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Totally. Believe it or not, we all fall into three different categories. We're either a stomach sleeper, a back sleeper, or a side sleeper. And that's really important when we talk about pillows because think about it. If you're lying down on your back, you're lying on a mattress, there's not a lot of space that you need to be supported. And it's actually kind of a nuanced space that you need filled. Right. It's kind of your neck here, the cervical spine. And so that kind of needs a pillow. And then you almost need a concave area next to support your head. Right, Right. Because anything else would bring your head, neck and spinal column out of alignment. And so a back sleeper pill pillow ideally has three different chambers and there's a lower chamber that's more voluminous and then one that's more concave for the head and then maybe a little bit on the top that would be perfect for a back sleeper. A stomach sleeper needs next to nothing. If you have a pillow and you're sleeping on your stomach and it's thick, it's going to bring again your spinal column out of alignment. As you're sleeping. So you really want to use the mattress or something very, very thin for a stomach sleeper.

[Griffin]

Interesting.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

But the most common sleeper type is a side sleeper. That's you.

[Griffin]

That's right.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I love it. Do you move or you.

[Griffin]

What about you?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I'm a side sleeper too.

[Griffin]

Oh, I move. I'll. I'll go left shoulder and then I got to go right shoulder. It's almost like I'm so symmetrical in life in general. Like I'm kind of type A that way that I think subconsciously I know when I'm sleeping, like I've been too long on the left side, I got to go to the right side. Like my left shoulder, my right arm is going to be off or it's going to look different. I just like I'm automatically doing that at night.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I love it.

[Griffin]

But okay, so that's terrific.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

And so now for us for side sleepers. Again, think you're lying on your mattress. This whole space is, is actually quite big that you need supported. And so especially think about your shoulders. If you're a big shouldered person, then you maybe need even fuller of a pillow. So ideally it's a pillow that's kind of marketed as a side sleeper pillow because then it will hopefully be designed for a side sleeper a little bit more voluminous. Some pillows have two gussets or basically it's like two pillows sewed together. So a double gusseted pillow can be good for side sleepers. But again, with pillows, the name of the game is trying to find a place that you can go and to test them out.

[Griffin]

It's funny, I actually feel like my pillow's too thick to wear. My head's too high.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Okay.

[Griffin]

Like in here. And I'm like, I need to bring it down. I need to bring it down a bit. So yeah.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

And if you're waking up with pain, that could be just, you know, one of the first questions to ask. If you're finding that you're experiencing any pain because of your, your mattress or your pillow, then it could be time to.

[Griffin]

Well, let's, well, let's talk about that now because I, I can't tell you how many people I've spoken to who are like, oh, my shoulder's messed up because I sleep in here. What do you do? They have to just start working on changing sleeping habits because think about if you're someone who sleeps in here, which I don't. Yeah, this is not the best thing for your shoulder. Like you're probably going to develop some problems in time.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

So what do you recommend that person doing? Is that just something where it's like, yeah, we, we got to rewire you now and maybe you have to become a back sleeper or maybe to buy a pillow to wrap your arms around or are there any recommendations you make there?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I'm such a believer in letting people operate how they. They would be kind of generally have for years and years and then set themselves up for success with the right environment. And so I have to imagine that if they are creative with their pillow placement that they might be able to solve that specific issue of the shoulder up. There's side note, there's some funny research on sleeper positions and personality types and it's found that people. There's the starfish pose. If you put your arms out and your legs out, and those are more extroverted people. And there's a sleeper type, it's called the mummy pose, where people cross their arms and lie on their back. Very scary to wake up too, if you don't know that your partner sleeps this way to wake up and see them that way. But someone who does that or sleep in the fetal position is a little bit more introverted. So some interesting research has found some correlations here, but I'm really a believer in. Unless the one exception is if you have snoring and you sleep with a bed partner and it's ruining their sleep and you only snore when you're on your back and you're able to sleep on your side, then there are a lot of kind of creative old school remedies. A fanny pack with two tennis balls and then flip that around so that the person is uncomfortable.

[Griffin]

I've never heard that.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

And then move them over. Or a sock. My grandmother would pin a sock to my grandfather's back because he had tennis balls.

[Griffin]

Really?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

And that works with a tennis ball in it? It worked. It moved him over to his side and he was able to get good sleep. Because you don't want the snorer's sleep to be impacted either. Right? But if it's just a positional question and then moving that person to their side will maybe improve their sleep and improve definitely the sleep of their spouse, then I think that that's a home run. But generally trying to meet people where they are is kind of what I'm a believer in. And there's so many pillows out there. I have to imagine that if that person that you're referring to is creative, they can find their own right pillow.

[Griffin]

Let's talk nutrition. Right? Because there's so much that's going to go into our sleep that has to do with our meal timing or the types of foods we're consuming. And you know, you've heard, you know, we've heard our grandparents say it, or you know, oh, I didn't sleep well last night, I ate a steak before bed, or I eat too late, like. But there is some truth to all this, right? So what have you found in reference to nutrition and sleep?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Nutrition and sleep are so intimately related. It's remarkable actually. And of course, you know, generally just a healthy diet is going to be better for sleep and your risk for sleep disorders like sleep apnea, because a higher body mass index does make you at greater risk for that specific sleep disorder. But generally healthy diet will result, a healthier diet will result in better sleep. But then what we eat and importantly, when we eat matters a lot when it comes to sleep. Now there's this craze called intermittent fasting, and that actually came out of the sleep and circadian science world. A circadian biologist on the west coast discovered if you restrict meal time that many cardiometabolic outcomes improve. And so it'll take, if you think of. I always kind of laugh when I read these studies because it takes kind of a free. We call people who eat whenever they want free running humans. And so kind of like free running, operating as you wish or see fit. So in these studies, they'll compare what we call a free running human, where they can eat any time of day, and then compare that with an intermittent fasting condition where we assign people to eat, not necessarily change what they eat, but just change the timing. So reduce the window within which they're eating. And there have been different studies done on where that window is in the 24 hour day. But generally that allows us to benefit from fasting, which we know is beneficial for us. But it also ties into some research that we've had for a long time on what we call the breakfast of kings, lunch of princes and dinner of paupers. Another old kind of adage we've heard for years, but that's actually been tested in the scientific literature. And what those studies show is that when you eat your biggest meal at breakfast, big at lunch, light at dinner, your sleep quality improves and that mediates a reduction in weight that I do.

[Griffin]

Agree with 100% sometimes what I don't always agree with are people that are restricting too much because I have found that when I restrict too much, it actually affects my sleep quality negatively. Now if I eat too close to bed. It depends what I'm having and the size of the meal that I'm having. Because it's happened to us before, right. If something's going on and you're like, I gotta get a meal in me, you're eating an hour before bed. Now the decision becomes, you know, how much are we having? And reducing that meal size I do find to be really helpful. But I feel like if that window is too long, if it's like five hours before going, going to sleep where I'm not having anything.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

No. And then you're hungry.

[Griffin]

Yeah. Then it kind of affects me and not so.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I couldn't agree more. I think there are a lot of people that probably feel similarly. And with the intermittent fasting diet, I think you want to find a way to make it work for your schedule and also your kind of preference. If you're really a morning person and you look forward to breakfast and you're kind of okay having an earlier dinner, maybe it's five hours away from your target bedtime, then perfect, go with that, but also try to make it work for your life. I don't think we need to kill ourselves to adhere to some of these protocols. But what is just insightful there is just trying to keep your dinner a little bit earlier, a little bit further away from bedtime, and your breakfast a little bit further away from wake up time to benefit from some of these principles we've known about for a long time having to do with fasting. The other thing that's so interesting about sleep and nutrition and our weight management ability is they're really linked at almost the hormonal level. So when we're sleep deprived, it throws something out of whack called leptin. And leptin is a neurotransmitter that gives our bodies and our brains a sense of how much we have had to eat. And that molecule is just out of whack when we've been sleep deprived. So when we're not getting enough sleep, so maybe six or fewer hours, this molecule leptin is simply 20% reduced. And so it's limiting our fundamental ability to know that we've had enough food and to be able to step back and say, I'm full and just instead you're more likely to stay at the table and keep eating. So biologically, we're limited in our ability to manage our weight and understand our appetite actually when we're sleep deprived. It's fascinating.

[Griffin]

One thing that you talk about, which I think is very important, overlooked, but I Say overlooked. People roll their eyes to it a bit. You talk about meditation before sleep, but you also talk about daily behavior when it comes down to being happy and the environment you surround yourself in. And this has so much to do. This is. This, to me, is going to trump taking magnesium before bed. Right. You know, these things are so important because when we have a stressful day, oh, yeah. We're going to notice that our sleep quality is affected. If you're someone that hasn't measured that, when you start measuring it, then you really see how our daily habits and our daily behaviors can affect that. But can you just give. It doesn't have to be anything crazy, but do you have, like, a little cheat sheet of things that you would tell the listeners to try and if we give three or five or 10, whatever it is, start with one. But what are some of the things that you feel like is a step in the right direction and.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Sorry, a step in the right direction. Just like sleep.

[Griffin]

Yeah, just like sleep hygiene. Like, would it be meditation? Would it be maybe cutting water consumption down a little bit earlier because someone's drinking too close till bed? Are there things in your head that you know that you're able to recommend to people and they can make those changes over time?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Outside of the two big ones, which are trying to get as close to your biological need for sleep, and the second of getting consistent sleep, keeping it as consistently timed as your sleep, as consistently timed as possible. Then there's a constellation of things that we know to be good for sleep. So, for instance, bedtime routines. It's so easy to think that I can be on my computer writing emails, planning my day tomorrow, organizing childcare, buying something else, and then go right to bed. But what you've been doing in those moments leading up to bedtime is activate all the wrong parts of your brain. That I want to be relaxing and unplugged. And sleep really is a process. I wish it were as easy as flipping a switch and saying, oh, I want to go to bed now. Let's crawl into bed and let's do this. But wrong. It's really a process. And I think that piece is not widely known because I think we just. We want it and we want it now, right? Okay, I can sleep now. And then we get so frustrated when we can't. But setting ourselves up for success, we do this for our kids. Bedtime routines are critical. And it's essentially. I don't think it has to be terribly protracted. You see on TikTok these long, ornate routines. But I think that really, if you can give yourself even 20 minutes and unplug from your screens at that point. So turn off your phone, ideally, put it into do not disturb mode or airplane mode would be even better. Put it on ideally another side of the room. And then fill the moments before sleep with things that soothe you. So if that's, if you love going to the spa, for instance, find a scent that you love and whether it's, you know, an essential oil or a cream, and maybe do a little massage here on the temples. And then what's another thing that would. And really ask yourself this question. What calms me down? Is it writing things down that you're stressed about? Do that every night before bed. Is it reading a couple pages of a book? Do that before bed. And if you're an investment banker, like, don't read about finance or if you're a fitness person, don't read about your profession, but read something that pulls you out of your day to day. And then I am a big believer in relaxation strategies. And I know that they are sometimes polarizing because people will say, oh, I can't do these things, I'm too busy, my mind is too active. And I always laugh because that's really the point, that no one can do these really, no one can do meditation. Well, right? Because the whole thing is kind of on this bedrock of the fact that our brains are so busy and that serves us very well evolutionarily because we go outside in New York City and we're processing everything, we're reacting to cars or bikers. And so it's very beneficial for a lot of reasons, but complex. Calming the mind is very hard. Any parent to a newborn can attest to the fact that we don't come into this world with an ability to relax. It's not a switch that we can turn off. Babies can't. Right? They need to be soothed. And so thinking of the time before bed as. And setting up a playbook. And so we talked about a number of things, right? Writing down your worries, relaxation exercises, looking at pictures of loved ones, turning off your phone, taking a warm shower, going about a skin routine, you know, taking off your makeup. But really, as you do these things, also shifting your mindset to being like, this is my time. For me, I've done things for my kids, for my spouse, for, you know, my work, for all these other people during the day. And I think self talk can be really powerful around, really sleep, broadly, but especially as we power down thinking, like changing your breath, consciously inhaling for a little bit longer and exhaling for a little bit longer as you prepare, prepare for bed. And the relaxation stuff I love so much. And they're skills that are so important, but I think so, you know, hard for so many people because they're like, how do I do that? What is meditation? And I like talking about these as relaxation strategies because they're easy. And pick the one that you love and then flex that muscle and practice and work.

[Griffin]

It doesn't cost anything either. You're not sitting here recommending anyone to take supplements. Supplements and. Or, you know, yes, we talked about mattresses and we talked about things that will, will, will, will force you to make an investment. But what you're talking right now is you're just saying to invest. You're basically just saying, invest 20 minutes at the end of the night to wind yourself down a bit.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Exactly.

[Griffin]

And that's going to pay dividends.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Things that. One of the. Some of the exercises that I love when it comes to relaxation strategies are clenching and releasing muscle groups. Something I do every night. I crawl into bed and I clench and I'll breathe in as I clench and I start from my toes, I' breathe in and then think about exhaling and releasing something. And then I'll move up to my shins and then to my thighs, and then I get to my eyes. And by that time, I'm almost putting.

[Griffin]

Me to sleep right now I'm like. Because I'm sitting here doing it, I'm, like, starting to feel loose and relaxed.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Isn't that amazing, even? I mean, we've been talking about this for two minutes. And, you know, just by drawing a little bit more attention to our breath and doing it actively. I think the idea of meditation for many people is stressful because that can lend the idea of, you know, sitting and not doing anything. And people are like, but wait, my mind. And then I heard, you know, an ambulance. And then, you know, I've totally lost it. But progressive muscle relaxation is a great one. I also love the military breathing technique. So if you breathe in through your nose for four seconds and then hold your breath for seven, it's a long time. And then purse your lips and exhale through your mouth for eight, breathe in for four through the nose, hold for seven, and exhale through the mouth for eight.

[Griffin]

That'S just automatically. I mean, that automatically you feel that automatically gets you calm. Bummer.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Yeah.

[Griffin]

These are such so powerful things. And that took no time.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Yeah. And every course, the day is important, too, because if we let all of our Stress accumulate. It's going to hit you like a bus at the end of the day.

[Griffin]

So even like throwing that in, what I just did there, which took me probably 30, 40 seconds, nothing. Throwing that in a couple of one or two times a day. That's the main takeaway here, right? Like, what you're saying are these are. These are things that you're not expecting. Even the meditation for people to incorporate and nail on day one, these things need to be practiced and. And you need to mix them in. And when you mess up or your mind goes off somewhere, then you bring it back, come back to the breath.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I also like the numbers. I think the numbers are weird. And then it's like the mouth breathing, the nose breathing. It gets you out of here, right? Where we keep all of the. These ideas are flying. And again, it's very beneficial, our brains and how active they are for many aspects of our life, except sleep.

[Griffin]

I absolutely love it. I love it. So I know now we have some questions. First off, you are always like one of my favorite people to talk to because there's always, as much as I think I know about this stuff, you're like in on another stratosphere. And it's always great to just steal and take a little something out away from you. And I've just. You're just such a wealth of knowledge and you're. You're amazing. And I know in the future, I'm sure, I mean, before we take the questions, do you have any. Do you have any book. Do you have any books out there?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Anyone? Gosh. Right now my book from 2011 is on sale on Amazon, so.

[Griffin]

Okay, what's. What. What's the name of that?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Tell everyone so they can Sleep for success.

[Griffin]

Sleep for success.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I think I did see that because It's. It's actually 15 years old. I mean. And what is so exciting about sleep medicine is we're uncovering new things almost every day.

[Griffin]

But it's valid, valid stuff. It didn't. It's not like that stuff's gone old.

[D]

I.

[Griffin]

These are things.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

It will put you right to sleep. I hope nothing else is my other joke.

[Griffin]

I love you for that. Let's take. So I know Chris is on the other end, right? Yes, I'm here.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Hi, Dr. Robins.

[Griffin]

Don. Our first caller is going to be Shelby from Denver.

[Don Saladino]

Hi.

[Griffin]

So you're in Denver.

[Don Saladino]

Yes, I'm in Denver.

[Griffin]

Perfect. So we got Dr. Rebecca Robbins here. I'm really excited to have her on and fire your question off.

[Don Saladino]

So my question. I know having A consistent sleep schedule is really important and I really do try. But it's really difficult for me to get to bed on a consistent schedule. And despite my best efforts at this point in my life, I kind of realized that while I'll still try to do so, realistically, this is kind of the way it is. So with that, I'd love to hear what you have to say about the effects of an inconsistent sleep cycle and if there's anything I could do to mitigate these effects, like if there's anything I could do during the day or long term to offset the effects or to help my sleep cycle in any way.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

From the standpoint of your sleep schedule, I'd say some of the things we talked about in the podcast that might resonate and I'd love to just dive a little bit deeper for you here is think about setting a soothing alarm. You don't want, you know, the siren alarm, like the, or you know, the loud one to wake you up, but pick one of the alarms on your smartphone that's soothing, some gentle bells or something around your target bedtime. Now let's talk about what your target bedtime could be and how we could move there. Look at your tips. Typical schedule and in a typical week, what's the earliest time that you have to wake up? Shelby around six, six o' clock. So that's your target wake up time. On the weekends you could kind of go into, you know, seven o' clock in the morning wake up time. But once you have an early wake up in a typical week, we try to kind of center your sleep schedule around that wake up time. And now let's count back maybe seven or eight hours and that would bring us to about 10 o' clock for a target fall asleep time. But falling asleep is actually really a process and you want to set yourself up for success and just hearing from some of the challenges that you're experiencing, really being careful and thoughtful about your bedtime routine and creating something that you look forward to every night. And maybe that's putting on a skincare mask or maybe it's listening to a podcast, but trying to identify the things that might trigger you to be a little bit stress or to have maybe some symptom flare up. Really lean into the things that soothe you and fill the time before your target fall asleep time with those soothing activities. But try to set that soothing alarm for about nine o' clock and that alarm could be your signal to maybe stop watching, you know, television if you're watching a television show or kind of Whatever you're doing, and switch to your bedtime routine and fill the time before bedtime with things that soothe you. So if you like, you know, skincare, a skincare routine, or taking a warm bath, if that's relaxing to you, or reading a book, ask yourself, what are the things that really soothe me? And fill that hour with relaxing activities. Reading a couple pages in a book. And think about, you know, two or three things that you could practice in that hour and then commit to doing that. And the one thing, if you get into bed at your target, kind of fall asleep time around 10 o' clock or 10:30 and you're finding that you're tossing and turning, get out of bed as soon as you hear that little voice inside your head go, oh, not again, not tonight, I'm tossing and turning again. Get out of bed as soon as you hear that little voice and go back to the things that soothe you. If it's a relaxation exercise, we just went through one. But kind of think of an exercise that you like and soothes you. There are a ton of things you can try closing your eyes and imagining. As you inhale, in your mind's eye, there's a balloon and you kind of inhale, breathe in and then exhale, breathe out. And you're kind of using an image in your mind of a balloon or a star or the moon kind of expanding and then contracting and then switch to, you know, wash your face and brush your teeth and then you read a couple pages in a book again, kind of curate your bedtime routine so that you could set yourself up for success for that consistent bedtime. Because getting enough sleep is important. But consistency of our sleep is as important, if not more important, believe it or not. Because when we're keeping a consistent bedtime schedule, we're giving our circadian rhythm this internal circuitry information on when we want to be tired and when we want to be alert. So when you're practicing consistent bedtimes and wake up times, you're going to fall asleep faster and it's going to be better, more restorative sleep than if you kept different schedules. So, Shelby, how does that sound?

[Don Saladino]

Yeah, yeah, that sounds great. I wonder if you have any tips for if there were a night where I did not get quite enough sleep, like during the day, like how best to work with that, what's gonna happen?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Right? Absolutely. For all of us. And truly, sleep is fascinating because it's different than any other health behavior. Let's take exercise. Someone who's motivated, they get on the treadmill they come to you for you give them the best coaching session, they can do it, right?

[Griffin]

Yeah, sure.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

But you can set yourself up for success when it comes to sleep and then toss internal night because of something that stress you out.

[Griffin]

It reminds me of when you just said that even people who show up for workouts every day, they're not going to be completely consistent with their effort and their energy level. Like, I'm sure you exercise. I'm sure there's been times you've shown up and just don't have it. So I just think there is, you know, try and be consistent with this stuff, but understand that there is inconsistency in our lives. And I always say when people ask me, would you take discipline over motivation? I'm like, every day, like, just have the discipline to keep trying to incorporate these things, but don't expect to nail it every single time. And just recognize it wasn't an ideal day or night last night. I'm gonna rely on this foundation that I built over the last weeks, months, years, whatever it is. And guess what? When I have a bad night's sleep because of travel or I'm on a red eye or something happens, I push through it that day. I get to bed the following night at a normal hour, and I feel like I'm kind of back on track because I built that foundation over time.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

I love that because it's so easy to get so stressed when you wake up after a bad night and you're like, no. And you're just desperate, right? Shelby, We've all been there. But. But I love looking forward to that nighttime because rest assured, right? That's the one thing. If you've had a bad night, at least that next night is gonna be good because we've built up something called sleep pressure. If you're not getting enough sleep, you've not paid off this kind of need for sleep. It's just that feeling of sleepiness when we're not getting consistent rest. And so that kind of builds and builds and you'll have more sleep pressure going into the next night and set yourself up for success. So I love that.

[Griffin]

I love it. Shelby, check out Dr. Rebecca Robbins is on social media. That's your handle, right? Dr. Rebecca. It's Dr. Rebecca Robbins on Instagram. She's got an incredible. One of my favorite IG pages. I'm always following it. She's always giving pointers on there. It's really become like an educational form. It's fantastic. So hope you. I'm glad you. I'm glad you came on. It's great meeting you.

[Don Saladino]

Amazing. Thank you guys so much.

[Griffin]

Take care.

[Don Saladino]

Really appreciate it.

[Griffin]

Bye. Bye.

[Don Saladino]

Take care.

[Griffin]

All right, Chris, last question. Yeah, we've got time for one more. This is Karina from San Antonio. Hi, Karina. I'm Don saladino. This is Dr. Rebecca Robbins. We're really happy, happy to have you on.

[D]

Oh, my gosh. It's so nice to meet y' all. This is an awesome opportunity. I'm excited to ask my question.

[Griffin]

Fire away.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

We're happy to have you.

[D]

Okay. Well, I have a two year old and I've got a newborn. He's six weeks old tomorrow. And I. Yeah. And it's awesome. We love it. It's busy. It's chaotic. We did sleep training with our first, but we didn't start that until like the three month old mark. And so of course, right now in that newborn season, it's like, unpredictable. You're waking up in the middle of the night. Every night's a different night. So during that newbor season, a lot of like, the American medical community really advises to not co sleep with your baby and have them in the bassinet right next to you. And I find that my child sleeps best when he's like, laying on top of me and stuff throughout the day. So what would y' all recommend as a new, you know, a new and young parent? What can I do to optimize my sleep in my health quality during this early newborn season?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

This is a great question. Congratulations on your little ones. Such an exciting and crazy time of life. I will say the sleep training, I think, unfortunately, it can be kind of controversial. There are some people who are anti and others that are pro. I like the view that you're essentially helping your child develop their relaxation kind of reflex because as a young mother, you know that children don't come out of the womb innately able to relax right as soon as bedtime rolls around. And so think about. I think it sounds like you've done this really beautifully with your second child or your first child, but with your second. I like to, I really ascribe to Dr. Harvey Karp's kind of three S's framework because I think it's just very simple and easy to follow. And he has these set of five S's and it's all about cultivating your child's relaxation response and being quite kind of religious with this as you approach bedtime. And so, for instance, babies are relaxed when you kind of sway them. Parents kind of move side to side, shushing so there's a little bit of a sound element, swaddling, so that you typically, you know, you're swaddling before bedtime, sucking, you know, a thumb or a bottle, give them a you a little bottle before bedtime and then a song and then bedtime. And really, as adults, we talked a little bit about this. We need to do all of these things also. But you're helping your child understand that what comes after the set of relaxing activities is sleep. So I think that that's a tradition that's kind of related to sleep training because it's cultivating your child's ability to fall asleep. But if you're doing that kind of consistently keeping an eye on the kind of the timing of your child's sleep, moving them into a schedule, moving them into, you know, sleeping, getting most of their sleep at night, kind of extending their wake windows during the daytime, getting them some natural light exposure during the day. All of those are going to be really helpful as you move your little one to hopefully sleeping through the night soon.

[D]

Definitely. Thank you so much. I love all of that and super helpful and insightful. So wish me luck as I implement all of that.

[Griffin]

Well, first off, you're going to be great. I mean, you already seem like, I mean, great attitude, right? And I'm super excited. We are both super excited for you. But at what ages did you find that your kids started sleeping through the night?

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Well, I think they both differed. My first, I was really lucky, I think about four months. But my second was a little harder. I couldn't kind of drop this one last awakening. So I think he was closer to six months. But then, do you remember with your older child, as soon as you kind of the clouds part, right, and you're like, oh, they're sleeping through the night, then you know, their teeth start to come in and you're like, wait, we're back up again. Hold on.

[Griffin]

Actually, really funny story. It was the first night my. When my wife and I had our daughter amelia, close to 18 years ago. We went out to dinner. Was the first night we were taking her out. She was in her stroller. And we was a very proud. Yeah, we were so proud. And we're sitting there, the strollers next to the bed, and we're like looking at each other. We're like, high five each other. We're like, no problem. Like she's a newborn. Do this. Like, no problem. Like life's. Life's great. Then we were, you know, the next couple of months were like, little interesting, but it was just funny at the time how we were like, oh, what's everyone making? And, you know, at the end, looking back on the best moments of our life. Right. Looking back, now our daughter's driving. Every time I see her get into a car, I've got a beat of sweat coming down my forehead. And I actually missed those moments where I used to pick her up out of the crib. But you're going to do great, and it's really exciting.

[D]

Thank you. I appreciate it. This was so awesome. I appreciate all of the insight and encouragement because it's. It's tiring, but it's also fun.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Totally.

[Griffin]

You're going to do great.

[D]

Thank you.

[Griffin]

Great meeting you.

[D]

Thanks, y' all, too. Have a good day.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

You too.

[Griffin]

This is amazing. I mean, you're.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

You're.

[Griffin]

Thank you.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

You're such a good idea.

[Griffin]

Thank you. Your time's been amazing. I mean, we're gonna. We're gonna wrap up. I mean, so grateful. Could you let everyone just. If they want to learn more about you, your books, your social media. I know we said it a little bit earlier, but just kind of recap on that.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Oh, you're so kind. Well, thank you so much for having me. I'm. It's such a pleasure to be here. And you can find my research online on the Harvard Catalyst website. Has all my research, or my website, Rebecca Robbins.com or my book, how to Sleep for Success is a little bit old now, but some of the advice is still, yes, we're working on another one, so more soon.

[Griffin]

But you're very kind and obviously Dr. Rebecca. I mean, ironically, we met for the first time today in person. I feel like we've been friends for at least. It's got to be at least five years.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

At least. Yeah.

[Griffin]

So we're going to have to do this again once it's time to promote your book. All right.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

You're so kind. I look forward to it. It's great to see you, Don.

[Griffin]

Great see you as well.

[Dr. Rebecca Robbins]

Pleasure's all mine. The views, information or opinions expressed in the series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Chip and Joanna Gaines. By N Audio nor Magnolia.