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Stronger with Don Saladino
Is Your "Clean" Diet Wiping Out Your Gut Bacteria? With Dr. Dwayne Jackson
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This episode is brought to you by Peloton Break through the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton Cross Training Tread plus. Powered by Peloton iq. With real time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push and go. Explore the new peloton cross training Tread plus@onepelaton.com New CBS Sunday, the Grammys, baby.
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History will be made live.
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Unfiltered, unexpected, bigger than ever.
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Bigger stars, bigger performances.
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Music's biggest night is getting bigger.
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Now you see what all the hype is about.
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Trevor Noah hosts the Grammy Awards live. Anything is possible. CBS Sunday and streaming on Paramount. Plus, on today's episode of Stronger, I am welcoming back my very good friend, Dr. Duane Jackson. So today Dwayne is going to discuss gut health. At first, he is going to discuss the gold standard of digestion. We are then going to get into the gut brain muscle connection where you are going to learn how leaky gut isn't just a buzzword, but a physical breakdown of your intestinal barrier that triggers systematic inflammation leading to brain fog, decreased muscle function and chronic fatigue. And we are so concerned with what we put in our but not necessarily how we process it. Dr. Jackson's also going to dive into the importance of fiber, how we use it and why we need it, and all the great things that are going to come when we actually hit an optimal level of fiber. And so many of us out there are focused on our protein, our carbs and our fats, but we're not putting enough emphasis into fiber. So Dr. Jackson is going to give you a masterclass on that. I know you're going to find this to be a very valuable episode. Guys, let's get started. The Stronger podcast wouldn't be possible if it weren't for our sponsors. And I would like to thank timeline. Start the year off strong with mitrepure longevity gummies. They're delicious by the way. Mitopure gummies are the first ever longevity gummies that support your cellular energy so you feel strong, clear and vibrant all year long. They're the only clinically proven urolithin, a gummy that helps renew your cells powerhouses so you can show up and as your best self every decade. And listen, I'm going to be 49 years old in April. Can't believe it. Yay. Right? And I've been doing things to really help improve my body from a cellular level for decades. What are Some of the things, training, you know, exercise, walking, nutrition. And now when I find a product that's as easy and as delicious to take as time. Limes, Gummies. It's such an easy treat for me to have first thing in the morning. I take 1,000 milligrams every day. I, I love having those gummies is almost like having a little bit of a cheat meal. It's. They taste delicious and I know they're doing right by me every single day. So don't let another year go by feeling less than your best. Grab 35% off. 35% off your one month subscription of Might Appear Gummies@timeline.com stronger35. That's timeline.com stronger35 while they offer last guys, thank you. Gut health, this is a term that's been thrown around more heavily over the last five to 10 years. This is something that's been in your studies for 30, 40 years easily, probably.
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B
How old do you think I am?
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C
You're older than me.
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B
Four or five years older than you. Right.
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C
So what would 40 years? Well, 30.
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B
40 years.
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C
30 years. Well, so, I mean, think about it. So 30 years, you would be, you know, you're, you're, you're what, 52.
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B
Yeah. So it'd be 22. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. I mean, yeah, it's 30 years. Not 40, though. Not 40 years.
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C
Well, you probably started thinking about this stuff 40 years.
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B
I did, yeah.
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C
You probably, you probably do. 40 years ago, when my mom was.
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B
Breastfeeding me, I was thinking, this is going to benefit me down the road.
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C
We, we hear the term gut health, a lot of people don't know what the hell that means. They think it's taking a probiotic. If they think about it being more regular, they're honestly, this is not, maybe, maybe not in your world, but I think in general population, I think people are. This is one of those terms. Like when we started hearing gluten, no one, everyone was talking, well, I'm not gonna have gluten. And they're like, what's gluten? I love that. I love that study when they walked around the city asking people, what's gluten? Well, you shouldn't have it. That's all they knew. So I think gut health's a very similar thing. Gut health. Well, we need to focus on gut health. Talk about gut health, though.
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B
Yeah. So, I mean, gut health is just digestive health, but the reason why it's gained so much popularity in my eyes is that the, the foods that we eat now and the Way we diet and everything else are so low in fiber rich polyphenol rich constituents. So berries, vegetables, bright colors. You know, we were told eat the rainbow back in like the 70s.
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C
Yeah.
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B
And the funny part is it's not really. It's not just a buzz buzzword or a term because by eating the rainbow, what you're doing is you're eating multiple different colors.
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C
Sounds like Lucky Charms right now. I keep thinking about that I was.
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B
Eating the rainbow every day.
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C
Wasn't that a commercial? Eat the rainbow, two flavors, like Lucky Charms. It's like the first thing I'm thinking about right now. That's why I'm laughing.
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B
No, you know, it's funny, though, because it's basically eat colorful food.
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C
Yep.
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B
Colorful food's interesting because when you have colorful food, it has a lot of.
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C
You got me died about this whole Lucky Charms thing. Now I'm not gonna be able to stop thinking about. Keep.
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B
Yeah, we're God.
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C
Keep. Keep going now.
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B
Yeah. So when we eat bright colored foods, they have. They have all different levels of antioxidants that are going to benefit digestion.
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C
Right.
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B
That's been lost. So now people are experiencing IBS or irritable bowel syndrome symptoms which are diarrhea, constipation, or some combination of the two that's not related to disease like inflammatory bowel diseases like Crohn's or colitis. And so we end up now in a situation where people have basically stripped their microbiota, which is the bacteria that resides within the digestive tract, especially in the large intestine, so the colon area. So now we can't process a lot of the foods.
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C
Right.
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B
That fibers that normally give us health benefits. And then that prevails into a whole series of issues with leaky gut syndrome, which we heard of, and then brain fog.
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C
Well, it's almost like a double negative, right. Because we're not getting in the full panel of. Of nutrients that we need. But on the other hand, we're having a lot of food that we shouldn't consistently be having or even food soil that's been compromised in our farming. Right. This is all there was a book by Western Price wrote a book on the different regions in the world and how you would take. So you were. They were assessing teeth and skin complexion and showing these different regions and showing the correlation between farming and what type of foods people were exposed to and bringing people from different areas of the world that never had exposure to pesticides or toxins and suddenly bring them into our society and they're instantaneously getting sick and you know, all this, all this crazy stuff. So this is what you're basically talking about right now.
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B
Absolutely. But you know, the digestive health process starts when it actually starts in utero. But we do know, we don't know a lot about that. So when the baby's in the belly, but we do know that your first exposure to the bacteria that's going to become part of your microbiota and your gut microbiota is through vaginal birth.
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C
Can you talk about the, the gut microbiome for a second?
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B
Absolutely, yeah. So, so the, the microbiome is all the genes and everything that sit within the, the area where you're looking at. So our body has biomes all over it. Our tongue has a different one, the, the female breast has a different one, the, the vagina has one penis skin doesn't matter where we look. There's these populations of well established microbes. They include everything from fungi to bacteria. We talk a lot about bacteria to viruses. And so when we, when we're talking about the digestive tract, the first introduction of those components to our personal microbiome, especially our digestive one, is through vaginal birth. And so if you're vaginally birthed, then you're going to get the bacteria from the, the mother's vagina, obviously, and then that gives you your first inoculation or your first probiotic, which, which is really meaningful. If you are born of cesarean section birth, then you're going to get skin microbiota as your first exposure. So we do know that vaginal birth, right off the bat, you can predict that gut health is going to be better down the road with vaginal birth. But there's some other hallmarks come along with that. Then it's exposure to breastfeeding. So now you, the baby latches, there's, you know, microbes around the breast as well as in the breast milk. It's full of microbes. And so now, now the baby is colonizing the digestive tract with the mother's milk. And so that's number two. So if you were cesarean section birthed and you weren't breastfed, which happens for a number of different reasons.
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C
Sure.
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From personal to medical or whatever, then most people, you can trace that back and you'll find out that they also had an exposure to antibiotics sometime in the first three or four years of their lives. Because now we know that those microbes are so involved in the setting up the immune system, they're protective in a way. Right oh, they're hugely protected. In fact, that's, that's, that's what sets up the immune system. And so we end up with antibiotic use at a young age. And then that wipes out oral antibiotics will wipe out all the bacteria that you got, even if it was limited. So we know that that front end of your life really is going to dictate how focused you have to be on your digestive health in order to keep it healthy.
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Can it be, can it be, I say corrected, but it could definitely be coerced into moving in a good direction.
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Absolutely right. And that's where the key is. And that's why some people can eat like a seagull and eat whatever they want and you know, have perfect type 4 Bristol stool chart poops that are a perfect log. Whereas other people, you know, if they don't eat perfectly, you know, have their fermented foods and their, you know, starches that are, you know, highly broken down, you know, the fibers that are broken down in the colon that they become these magical short chain fatty acids. If they don't get those, then they notice they'll be inflamed the next day they'll have mucus in their poop and all these different things. So really, you know, gut health starts before you even know it's going to be there. And then it's kind of your, as you become an adult, it becomes your responsibility to maintain it. And if you don't, then we end up with a whole bunch of issues with everything from just bloating, which people complain about a lot, right through to brain fog and, you know, immune issues and all kinds of problems there. So it's fundamental that our diet is tight and the older we get, the more this microbiota changes. And so we gotta be on top of it because if we muck it up with alcohol, unnecessary use of proton pump inhibitors, so for, for heartburn and these kind of things, a lot of people will take them, you know, just because they get heartburn, because they're, they're eating like a person that shouldn't be eating those foods. We end up then putting ourselves in a much more, in a very, very low grade, inflammatory, poor health status state. And it's amazing how many people are walking around right now with poor digestive health.
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C
So when you, when you hear the term leaky gut, can you define that?
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B
Yeah, so it's kind of a euphemism like little, like, you know, slang term. But what it means is that we have, especially in the large intestine right. This is where this, where the leaky part happens. So in the large intestine, we've got. That's our colon. And so it's no longer thought of as just a big long tube that holds the poop and then poops it out the other end. We now know that it's got multiple different layers of protection. So first we have the poop part, but in there, there's a whole bunch of bacteria and a whole bunch of fiber and all that that's in our poop. And they all interact. And when the fiber interacts with the bacterium in, in the colon, it ferments that fiber. And that fiber fermentation process turns into things called short chain fatty acids. And then those are gases that go around the body and decrease inflammation and, you know, increase brain health and do a whole bunch of different things.
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C
The gut really, I don't want to say has become, because it's always done this, but I think research continues to point in the direction of its level of importance. I mean, you, you have to admit, maybe over the last 30 years, it is way more, it's taken way more seriously now. And your gut health is genuine. We always say the mitochondria is your power plant, but in a way, your gut really is.
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B
Well, and it does interact with that because, because low grade systemic inflammation is now a thing that a lot of people have. You can measure this in measuring HSCRP and it's, you know, if it's elevated, even just slightly elevated, then there's a high likelihood you're dealing with a low grade inflammatory response, which is a chronic problem because it's there forever. It's not like having a banging your knee as an ac. You know, you get acute inflammation. It's gone in a couple days.
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C
Sure.
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B
So, you know, when we talk about the actual colon and we talk about leaky gut, the, the colon has a couple layers, so there's a mucus layer. And that mucus layer actually is what we call barrier function. And so it actually is very, very involved in immune system regulation. And that that layer of gel, like mucus is kind of the first defender against things that get into our, that get past our digestive system that our body doesn't like. And so anybody who's taken a poop and saw like fuzzy things floating around on the toilet, maybe it's fuzzy around a blueberry. That's because you're having a response to blueberries. Your, your b. Your body is not like liking them right now. There's, you don't have the bacteria or the, the means to handle that fiber. And so it gets encapsulated and you poop it out.
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C
So this is kind of diving into food sensitivities a bit, right?
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B
These are foods that, well, we create food sensitivity. We have poor gut health. Right, but they're not, they're not food allergies, right? They're rewiped out the machinery to take care of the fiber. And that fiber that we think is so evil, which, I mean the carnivore diet and that one is all purported like, look at this, you know, whenever eat the carnivore diet, I feel amazing. And as soon as I have a salad, now that I've been on the carnivore diet for six months, you see why it's poison? Because all of a sudden I'm running the bathroom with diarrhea and it's like, no, you got it. No, what happened was you wiped out your microbiota and now you're not feeding it anything but protein and protein's really hard on the guts. And so you end up with a situation when you eat anything but that you can't handle it.
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C
So are they feeling so great in the beginning? Because they are in a way doing an elimination diet. So yeah, technically that's exactly what. So you're, you're and you and you hear. I mean, so many people have jumped on this bandwagon of oh, the best I felt now is by just eating meat. And you're like, how is this possible? How are you going to be able to take a long term approach to a healthy lifestyle? How are you focusing on longevity and long term energy and vitality by just having meat? You're doing, for most people who don't know what a food elimination diet, it's exactly that. You start eliminating foods. It's beans, it could be rice, it could be something that you might be sensitive to. And out of nowhere that's gone. So you feel great. But then in a few months, what, what starts to happen?
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B
Well, then you, then you start to get the inflammatory effects of having, you know, very, very high meat consumption, high saturated fat consumption. I mean, take a look around right now and just search around. I'm not going to name anybody, but there's a bunch of influencers that were only eating meat. They had great big knives and they'd eat these steaks in front of the thing. Oh yeah. And now all of a sudden they're doing sugar diets and do all these, all these other fad diets.
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I know exactly what you're talking about right now. Ex power lifter. I know you're talking about.
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So, so the key, the key really to, you know, making sure you're protecting that, that colon is to get the bacteria built that can then handle the fibers that then can create the short chain fatty acids that decrease the inflame inflammation in the digestive tract so we don't feel bloated and everything else. And, and then, you know, basically you don't get that leaky gut thing because once, once you, once you've wiped out that mucus layer and you start getting inflammation in the enteric cells. Those are the cells that line the gut. Now these are the kind of business end. They have junctions between them and they start spreading open. So now picture this. You've got a high bacterial load colon, right? You've got a gap in that barrier function that allows things like lipopolysaccharides and basically bacterium get into the bloodstream. And then now the whole bloodstream starts basically being infiltrated with inflammatory cytokines and everything else, which then go into everybody else's organs, right? So we go in the brain. That's going to cause inflammation and it breaks down the blood. Brain barrier goes into muscle, muscle doesn't function as well and we start getting inflammation throughout the body. So it's a big, big problem when people aren't focused on their digestive health and when they keep wiping things out because it just feels better, right?
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C
And it doesn't. It's not going to be fixed by taking one probiotic a day. Like this is not.
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B
No, no, no. It takes it systematic approach. And if anybody's wondering, kind of like, hey, do I have any IBS symptoms? Basically, if, if you go online, look up Bristol stool chart B, R, I, S, T, O, L and look it up. If you're not sitting at, you know, a, a 4 or 5 on the Bristol stool chart, a 4 is like a perfect log clean sweep. Like you look in the toilet after you're done and it, it slipped away. You didn't even get to see it go because it was so perfectly round and went torpedo down the hole. Um, you're good. If you wipe your bum and it's really, really slippery and it's almost like, hey, I didn't realize I put like baby oil or suntan lotion all over my butt. That's your mucus.
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C
You got a problem.
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B
That's the muco layer and you got a problem. You want to start, start, you know, dealing with that now and that will.
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C
Then you know, of course, dealing with it now, you want to deal with it now. But what are some of the long term issues you're going to end up having?
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B
Well, you'll end up having a lot of these issues that people complain about. They'll talk about brain fog and talk about, you know, lack of motivation, issues with joint health, you know, like swollen joints and muscular pain, these kind of things. And that's just because you got this low grade systemic inflammation that's now gone systemic. It's not isolated or localized. And so you have a number a cascade of different symptoms that are not conducive to being able to move well, feel well, and increase longevity.
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C
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B
I didn't know that.
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C
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B
Generally it depends on how high I can get their fiber at the onset because the average person that thinks they're eating healthy is getting about 15 grams.
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C
Of fiber a day, which is way too long.
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B
It's, it's about half what you need.
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C
Yeah. And what's your female. You and I have talked about, spoken about this, but males are around the 35 to 38 grams a day range. Women 25 to 28. Yeah, minimum. Right?
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B
Yeah, that's, that's where it's a good starting point. Obviously, you know, most of it's based on body size, so I usually push for, you know, 30 to 38 grams right off the get go and see where we sit and then we can kind of back off from there if we have to. But a lot of times what happens if you use the right soluble fibers that are very gentle, like the, like oats are great. High in beta glucans. Milled flax is amazing because it's got both soluble and insoluble fiber.
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C
Why milled over whole, just easily more easily digestible because.
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B
Because on the outside of the, the flax Seed, it's got lignans which are like, which are hard. And so you eat them and you put them right back out. So when you grind it up, you get all the Omega 3s and ALA and everything else out of it, which decreases inflammation. So functional foods are the key here. And then, you know, if you're not.
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C
Can you name some other foods?
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B
Absolutely.
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C
Can you name a couple of them now just to give people.
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B
Yeah, like, avocado are great. Just be careful because with avocado, some people have sensitivities because of it's. It is a relatively high fodmap food, which is a highly fermentable food. That's a good thing. But it's a good thing in the right healthy context. So avocado is great. Berries with their, with their seeds, like raspberries are really, because they have lots of seeds. But also berries are awesome because they have a lot of polyphenols. And polyphenols also feed bacteria to become short chain fatty acids, which lead to all the magic that we talk about. So, you know, the easiest thing people can do is add a, you know, some blueberries to their breakfast with some flax. Right. Maybe a tablespoon of. Of milled flax. Maybe some chia Chia is an excellent one, too. They could have, you know, some oats with that and make sure you cook them well, so that way they digest quite easily. And that would start the day off right away with a really good set of fiber. And then add in, you know, your protein of choice, whatever that may be, whether it's, you know, eggs or. Or meat or whatever.
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C
We've. We've done anything. Yeah, I mean, we've. We've done anything from, you know, mixing in real foods to even protein powders.
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B
Protein powders. Yep. To kind of.
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C
It's a nice way to kind of kick off yogurts quick. And yogurt. Y. So discussing yogurt.
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B
Yep.
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C
So jump into that a little bit.
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B
Yeah, so. So it's nice because, you know, we're talking about a lot about fiber, but we also should talk about bacterial load. Right. Because our body's constantly going in flux with its bacterial load based on how we insult the guts. So if we're out pounding drinks, well, then we're going to definitely have a decrease in density and diversity of our bacteria in the large intestine. So the key is to have small insults of bacteria throughout the day from things like fermented vegetables, probiotic, fermented vegetables, yogurts, kefir, you know, Fermented milk products are amazing for bacteria. If you're vegetarian or vegan, you could have tempeh or soy products. Miso is an amazing one. But the point is that you want to be strategic with your meals. So just eating a steak and then going, oh, I'll get the carbs later isn't going to do you any good. And just eating a steak and saying, well, all this stuff, some psyllium husk, because, you know, soluble fiber. The problem is that psyllium husk has nothing more than psyllium. And we can get our fiber from things that give us really high quality fats and everything else. So say like an avocado, again, high fiber, which a lot of people don't realize. Super high in anti inflammatory fats. So now we can double hit it. And if we have some, say some sauerkraut, that's non pasteurized sauerkraut, so it's got bacteria in it. Those, those things added to your meal are going to give you that synergy that you need when you get, when it gets down to the poop chute.
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C
I actually did find a much quicker response from consuming fermented vegetables on the regular. So in one of the, one of the centers I went, I traveled to, to assess, they actually did something very clever. Every meal they gave you a small little dish and that dish had some type of fermented vegetable in it. And they almost recommended that you have that first. And they wouldn't serve you water with your, with your meal. You know, they would tell you to have it 30 minutes before or after the meal. And I remember going and doing that. That's the beautiful thing of traveling to places like this is you, you kind of find out culturally how they, you know, go about approaching certain things and you understand, you know why and you know who it works for. And then you start experiencing it a bit.
- [28:25]
B
Korean foods like that, right? Like that's where kimchi comes from. And you get like, if you go to a real Korean restaurant, you'll get a multiple different little like dishes. Incredible and just amazing, amazing food.
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C
I almost know I am at my best physically. I'm feeling my best when I'm mixing in either some type of kraut or some type of kimchi. I'd say at least two to three meals. And now it's not going to be a lot. I'm not sitting there eating 6 to 8 ounces of sitting, but I'm probably having 2 to 3 ounces of sitting. Yeah, but having that spread out over time, I think is a good way for me to get it in without feeling like I'm choking down kimchi all the time. I don't love kimchi. I like it. I don't love it.
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B
See, I love this stuff and it's, I love crap so expensive that you like, you blow through a 15 can hour easily.
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C
But you know, I, I did, you know, almost instantaneously feel a lift. The first thing I felt was really more brain fog and I felt like I was digesting my food better. Where in the past because I'll, I'll slow cook my grains, I'll slow cook my oats. I always cook them in my, in my slow cooker eight hours overnight, you know, do it and then I'll, I'll make my little kind of mud bowl in the morning with your, you know, you've got me turned onto it the, the milled flax or the mill, whatever it might be, the berries and mix that all into this mud bowl. But if I don't and maybe it's, maybe it's mental. So I'm just telling you that when I have my fermented veg beforehand, I almost never feel, I never feel lethargic after. If I sometimes have that meal, I sometimes feel a bit lethargic. Can you talk about is this priming the digestive system a bit or is this just more a placebo? What's going on?
- [30:03]
B
No, I mean you'll be priming the digestive system because I mean there's a lot of bacteria in, in these non pasteurized fermented foods. And so as soon as you, you know, if you're eating your, you know, if you're eating either with the meal or before the meal, you'll end up actually, you know, everything kind of follows in suit as it goes through the digestive tract. Right. And those bacteria are going to make it to the colon and just as those are get arriving, you're going to have all that, all that fiber in the soluble fiber especially that's going to be then fermented and then become short chain fatty acids. And if you just, if you're constantly doing that over time, you're not doing it in fits and starts. Like you know, this month I'm doing a run of kimchi. Right. Then you're just going to always feel better. And when you don't have it for a few days. Yeah. You're going to be less in abundant bacteria.
- [30:52]
C
That's. Yeah, yeah. I was, I was shocked on how instantaneous it was.
- [30:57]
B
Yeah.
- [30:57]
C
And I was always unsure Is that just a placebo or is that something that makes sense? And, you know, I do think setting up your digestive system before a meal like that, I think. I think there is some validity to it.
- [31:09]
B
There's definitely some merit. And the, you know, the. The whole idea behind being able to eat these foods isn't. These are not like. This isn't like a one and done. No, this is something you incorporate into your regular lifestyle. So it's no longer like, oh, I'm pooping mucus today, so I got to start this protocol. Right. And then you do the protocol and get back on track, and then two weeks later, you're doing it again. So it's.
- [31:33]
C
But again, it's attacking us from different places. Right, because you could start a protocol and then not make lifestyle changes and continue to have alcohol or processed foods or all these things that are. I like to refer to it as you're trying to put a fire out and you just keep throwing gasoline on it. Like, it doesn't.
- [31:48]
B
Yeah, I mean, we use out. We use alcohol in the cell culture lab to kill off bacteria. Like, that's the whole idea. And in fact, actually, I'm pretty sure that the all inclusives I went to when I was younger and everybody else was like, barfing from food. I think it's because I was drinking, like, straight rum and. Rum and coke and stuff. I was just killing everything that I was eating.
- [32:09]
C
No, I can.
- [32:09]
B
I'm serious. Because everybody else is sick and they're drinking beer. So. So, I mean, alcohol kills bacteria. Good or bad?
- [32:16]
C
Right, Right. Good and bad. Which is. Which is. And you're more. We've spoken about alcohol plenty, plenty of times, but are you more interested in what alcohol does to you from a sleep and hormonal standpoint or from a gut damaging standpoint? What do you think is if you had a prioritize and they're both bad.
- [32:34]
B
Well, they both feed into each other too.
- [32:36]
C
Right.
- [32:36]
B
Like. Like poor sleep changes the microbiota. So everything. Yeah, so both. Alcohol is. No. Alcohol has no. No health benefit whatsoever.
- [32:47]
C
Certain people recently are trying to.
- [32:48]
B
Oh, yeah, of course. Addictions. Addiction is a very powerful tool.
- [32:52]
C
Exactly.
- [32:52]
B
So, hey. And hey, like, I. I've drank alcohol before. It's not like, you know, I was a tea totaler all my life. The key to the whole process is kind of like what you were saying. We were talking about exercise and how important that is for longevity and everything else is that you should have a foundation of healthy eating. And that foundation of healthy eating isn't any fading, you know, name this diet, this or anything like that. It's just that mixed meals with high fiber and really, really high quality colorful vegetables and whatnot.
- [33:27]
C
No one wants this answer, of course, but it's the right answer. It really is. It's frustrating because everyone is going for it in a, in a capsule form, which I know the value of supplements and so do you. But again, I think now it's talking about diet in comparison.
- [33:41]
B
Well, the supplements are great to supplement the diet while you're trying to, you know, 100 unwrack it.
- [33:46]
C
Yeah, antibiotics.
- [33:49]
B
Yeah. I mean, so antibiotics. So antibiotics. First of all, like I'm not anti, anti antibiotics. Antibiotics have a very, very, very important role in society. Otherwise we'd be in a lot of trouble. Now super bugs and everything that are coming about because of them, that's, you know, another thing. But, but if you need antibiotics, make sure you take your antibiotics. However. Yeah, antibiotics, they do wipe out the, the microbiota. And we know that we, I mean you use it in sibo, like small intestinal bacterial overgrowth that they use, you know, Z packs to, to take care of that. So. But the point is that there's ways around the deleterious effects of antibiotics by, you know, incorporating a few general rules. And usually that's when I'll come in with a really potent probiotic. And generally if it's, if it's a one a day, you know, antibiotic, take it at the opposite time of the day. So you're constantly replenishing what it's taking.
- [34:42]
C
Out and you want that on an.
- [34:44]
B
Empty stomach and you, yeah, you do that on an empty stomach and then, and then obviously have your fibrous foods and everything because the, the key to probiotics. Go on a little tangent here. It's important. The key to probiotics is you want to colonize your colon by colonization. I mean you want them to grow and just have their own thing going on like your lawn, right? And so if you are taking a probiotic, you want it to be very, very abundant. So high colony forming units or CFUs, they measure them in and you also want them to be multiple different strains of probiotic. So think of it like your lawn care, right? When you're, when you're going to overseed your lawn in the fall, spring, whenever you want to do it because you got some weeds, what you're doing is you're using multiple different strains of grass seed like a probiotic. And the reason why you're using multiple different strains of grass Seed is because sometimes there's drought, sometimes there's a lot of sun, some like the dark. And what you want to do is basically have them all live in this symbiotic relationship in the lawn with the weeds and eventually as you colonize the grass, they will overcome the weeds. And the fertilizer that you put on your lawn after you put those grass seeds down is like your fiber that you're going to take the fertilizer is going to say, I'm specific to these strains of grass seed. That I'm going to be basically making sure that they grow better than the actual weeds themselves. And by doing so, then you choke out the weeds and everybody plays fair in the sandbox. Your colon is exactly the same way. Probiotic foods or probiotics with soluble fibers that those probiotics then can chew on and survive.
- [36:26]
C
Not probiotic food, not probiotics. Over probiotic foods. You want to do both.
- [36:32]
B
Yeah, like if you, yeah. So if you're, if you're. So we talked about, we're talking about antibiotics, right. So if you're, if you're on, on antibiotics, make sure that you incorporate some of these things we've talked about today with fermented vegetables and so colorful veggies.
- [36:44]
C
Colorful fruits, berries, you said that have seeds in it. Yeah, right. You said milled or grounded. You know, flax or chia.
- [36:58]
B
For the vegans. Right. We can eat miso or any sort of fermented soy. Like tempeh will work great.
- [37:05]
C
Fermented veggies, kraut kimchi. Now getting into fermented against pickled. Pickled is just filled fed vinegar. Is that what it is?
- [37:15]
B
Yeah, like, yeah. So yeah. So you want to look for things that are non pasteurized and aren't. Yeah, just vinegars and pickles. Right. So, so, so is there benefit to.
- [37:24]
C
Having like a pickled veggie or you really just want to go for the fermented.
- [37:29]
B
Yeah, go for the fermented one. So you'd want to go for like, you know, a good old kosher dill. It's been sitting in that jar in the fridge that's like fizzing up and you open it goes like, like that. That's got some action. Right? So anything that's, that's, you know, in a fridge and it's a non pasteurized fermented vegetable. Those are the ones that you want to kind of, kind of get into.
- [37:51]
C
What you're feeling on kombucha.
- [37:53]
B
It's, it's an excellent way to get more bacteria Absolutely.
- [37:56]
C
Do you have to be careful on consumption, having one a day too much? Should you be spacing it out a little bit more? Can you, can you develop candida? Are these things that you really need to worry about or is that just more myth?
- [38:08]
B
Yeah, it's that generally you're gonna see being caused by probably other things in the diet or, or you know, you're overloading with bacteria when you don't have the machinery to take care of it it at all. But kombucha, I mean, you're more limited by the price anyway.
- [38:23]
C
And also the fact that there is a little bit of caffeine in there. Right. So you want to be careful with the tea.
- [38:28]
B
Yeah.
- [38:28]
C
Because yeah, it's black tea. Is it more of like a black tea?
- [38:31]
B
Yeah, so. So, yeah, so. So the key to the whole process is to think like your colon that, and think like this whole, you know, lawn analogy because all your, you know, there can be bad bacteria in there, there can be bad viruses and everything else, but if you have it more abundant in the good stuff, so lactobacillus and bifidobacteria and these things, then they all play fair in the, in the, in the colon. And really your key to this, really, and this is the lovely thing about, you know, there being an exit hole at the end of your large intestine is that if your poop is coming out in nuggets or mucus or it's flat or, you know, diarrhea or soft serve, whatever it may be, and not just a nice smooth log, then you've got a problem that you need to get deal with as soon as possible.
- [39:22]
C
You know, what becomes ironic about this is that, you know, people will eat for different things. Right. You've worked with bodybuilders that eat for body composition change. Yet, you know, the type of eating we're talking about right now might wreak havoc on a bodybuilder's progress because there's too much variability to where they're going to be able to really dial in macronutrients to where they're going to be able to progress. But it's kind of what a bodybuilder is missing in their diet because it's so plain.
- [39:52]
B
That's what, that's, that's how I got, that's how I broke in. Well, I didn't break in, but that's how I ended up doing all the bodybuilding stuff because I do a lot of off season, you know, big bodybuilders like Olympia Bound Body.
- [40:02]
C
Sure.
- [40:03]
B
And Their biggest problem is that if they, if their gut health is off when they start, by the time they get to show day, they're, they're, they're peeing out of their butt when they've cut water. And so, so you have, you know, so you have an issue now where. Or they're bloated. And so you have, you have issues.
- [40:23]
C
Now, which, by the way, is a massive problem. And also what's the bioavailability of the food they're consuming if their gut health is off? And I understand for a 16 week. I mean, what's, what's, what, what's a typical 16 to 20 weeks? 16 to 20 weeks. So for 16 to 20 weeks, you got to cut down on a lot of that stuff because you need to focus. I get it. But then the other, you know, 30, 40 weeks a year, you better be, you know, fixing what you broke. Exactly.
- [40:53]
B
Yeah. And so, so generally I'll work with my guys up to probably six weeks out or so, and we'll be just plowing the, the fiber and everything. I kind of changed the industry that way.
- [41:06]
C
And then at that point, what do you start? Do you get really lean or really thin in your approach? And you say, all right, now we got to get a little bit more plain.
- [41:12]
B
And yeah, what I generally do is I pass it off to the, to their, to their peak peaking coach. Like.
- [41:19]
C
Yeah, because then they can just go run and do it.
- [41:21]
B
Yeah. And I don't like all the, I don't like all the shenanigans.
- [41:24]
C
So 68 weeks isn't, isn't that bad in my opinion. Six to eight weeks of.
- [41:29]
B
No, it's not. No. And generally then, then that if they don't qualify for Olympia, we can turn it around and go to the next one in a week or so. But there's so many guys that just make it to the qualifier and then they get second or third or something. Right. And their digestive health is such in the tank, they can't go on. I've, I've pulled, I've pulled guys from, from, from the Olympia.
- [41:47]
C
It's incredible how you could still be consuming a lot of foods that we find that are healthy. But if your digestive system isn't working the way that it needs to be working, you're not going to be utilizing and processing the, that nutrition the way that you need to process this. And how do we fix this from proper nutrition and rest. This is all, everything that we're talking about is just this domino effect. It's just this Chain of events that all dictate each other.
- [42:14]
B
Well, you know why this exists, right? Because no one wants to do the boring work.
- [42:20]
C
Of course. Well, you and I always talk about that. It was a trick question there yesterday that I was like, well, what am I not know?
- [42:26]
B
No, it's because, it's because over time we start to look for easier ways to get around things. Right. And the digestion's part of it in, in the bodybuilding is a great one for this, is that, you know, okay, so I have to get to 300 pounds. Like I tried to get 300 pounds, I got to 260 and then, you know, my kidneys blew out. So you know, I know force feeding. I know waking myself up every three hours in the night. And when you force feed, the digestive distress you put on yourself is massive. And now if you're, and then the key to this is like, okay, well if I force feed, I gotta make sure I'm just getting the macronutrition. Cause I gotta get the carbs in, I gotta get the protein and I get the fats in. And so, you know, you're not gonna be thinking, well I'm gonna have a salad with this when you're on a 6,000-calorie diet. And so it's, you know, it becomes, it becomes a problem that becomes a problem in itself. Because the key to this is bodybuilders have the stinkiest farts. Right? That's all there is to it. And, and, and the reason why they do is because that's the effect of undigested protein fermenting in the colon for the most part. And that's why it smells like eggs, because there's a lot of sulfur bound to protein. So if you have an abundance of amino acids that are getting fermented in your colon, then you know, where's that protein going? Like, because you're just feeding the toilet. Right? So, so then it is, then it is like, do we need 475 grams of protein at this point in time? Maybe we should back it off to 350. So. Right, yeah. So, so it just kind of is a self fulfilling prophecy in a lot of cases. And bodybuilding is a great one to look at because it's, you know, force feeding, it's limited diet, it's stress, peds, inflammation over training. It's a, you know, all, all the stuff that makes you have poor digestive health. Right, right. Stress in general is another one.
- [44:19]
C
You know, I, I get, I, I completely understand what needs to Go into a contest prep and that I don't think you're really going to change. I mean it's, the body's not gonna change. I'm sorry to break it to people, but I think how people deal with the non contest prep, that's what has to change. And I think it's even, it's no different than talking about how's an athlete going to deal with their offseason? How's an bodybuilder gonna deal with their offseason? What a, what's a golfer gonna do in that six to eight weeks where they're not playing in tournaments a year because their off season so small? There's so many things that we can do now for these athletes that are going to in a way prep them to be more resilient. The, the, the beautiful news is the majority of the people listening to this are not getting paid to play a sport or to compete. And there's so many things that they can add in one step at a time that's going to be able to improve gut health. So besides, right now I just want to do a little recap besides eliminating processed foods and minimize or let's use the word minimizing. Right. Because a lot of people get. Well, I have to give up. We minimize pro. But, but if you're having processed foods once a week or twice a week and you're having alcohol once or twice a week and you're starting to add in these things again, you and I have talked about this. You're now accumulating all these things that are going to work against you. So besides minimizing a lot of the damage, let's give a quick recap on things that people can just quickly add into their daily routine that they can be consistent with taking more of a micro momentum approach. Start here and maybe start adding this. Where can they, what, what can they do and how can they see benefit?
- [46:06]
B
Yeah. So one of the most successful approaches I've had is literally putting together overnight oats. And I got laughed at by the bodybuilding community and everything until everybody started doing it. Now I can't take it out of there.
- [46:19]
C
We're doing it tonight, right? Yeah.
- [46:20]
B
100 and, and so you know, without having to go to a pile of detail but you know, make some overnight oats. First thing it get takes care of is I don't have time to have breakfast. Well, you make, you can make five days worth in a row in mason jars, put, you know, a cup, half cup, whatever your macros fit of, of whole Oats, organic oats. You know, get those in there, a tablespoon or two of flax, a tablespoon of a chia ground, possibly a couple walnuts in there and, and then fill it up with some high quality almond milk. Milk of choice. So you're with your milk of choice. And, and if you, if you kind of fill it up the jar, jar and leave it in the fridge overnight, then the oats soak in it and they become more resistant starch, which. Resistant starch is really good for the colon and really easy to digest. And then when you pull it out of the fridge, open up the jar, throw in, you know, a quarter or a half cup of blueberries, and in my case, I'll usually put a scoop or two of whey protein and then just give a couple splashes of whatever milk I use.
- [47:22]
C
Do you ever just mix it all, put it in the mason jar and then put it in the fridge and just let it all sit as a finished product? Or you don't like to have the whey protein sit for a day?
- [47:30]
B
I use, I usually, I usually do the whey and stuff afterward because it doesn't fit. I make.
- [47:35]
C
Oh, but if you had a big mason jar and it fit, if you.
- [47:37]
B
Did a huge one. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Yeah. Usually what I do is, yeah, you can, you can mix it all together and have it all ready to go. You might want to top it up with a little bit of, you know, almond milk or oat milk, whatever is you're using cow's milk in the morning. But if you do that, mix that up and you eat that, you're probably going to get 15 to 17 grams of fiber from this. But it's really highly digestive fiber and.
- [47:59]
C
You'Re almost halfway at your daily fiber consumption.
- [48:02]
B
And you've got that first meal in.
- [48:03]
C
I know.
- [48:04]
B
And, and usually what happens is after first, you know, first couple days, people say, yeah, I know, it's pretty, it's pretty good, you know, maybe a little bloated, but then they start having regular poops and there's nothing better then before you go to work or before you get on a plane, having a good poop. It's a human condition.
- [48:24]
C
Love that.
- [48:25]
B
And, and no, but it makes people happy.
- [48:27]
C
Yeah.
- [48:27]
B
People are like, oh my God, I'm pooping on, like, I poop at 7:30 every morning now like I used to when I was 17 years old.
- [48:32]
C
Yep.
- [48:33]
B
So, you know, that's kind of the key. And that, that one addition right there is probably the most fundamental one. You can do.
- [48:40]
C
And then. And in doing something like, you don't have to go overboard. But when I go, I buy this organic kimchi and this organic kraut. You know what, I leave it in my fridge and I'll have those little dishes. So I might throw two to three ounces in a dish, have that before lunch or have it before dinner right there. In itself, we just named two to three things.
- [48:59]
B
Absolutely.
- [49:00]
C
That are so easy. How do you feel about like an apple cider vinegar or something first thing in the morning?
- [49:06]
B
So apple cider vinegar helps with insulin sensitivity for sure. It doesn't really do anything for the gut at all. Well, it does. It does. It actually adds. Yeah. So it does add acetate. So there's three short chain, short chain fatty acids that are really, really important. There's more than that. But acetate, propionate and butyrate, that's produced by the colon. When you take in apple cider vinegar, you're actually increasing the acetate in your digestive system. And so that's really. If there's any magic to be had, that's where the magic's coming from. It's not the other magic that everybody else thinks.
- [49:44]
C
Sure. Okay. Well, I think that was incredibly helpful. Very informative. Did you think anything. Did we leave anything out that you want us to throw in?
- [49:52]
B
No, it's probably pretty good.
- [49:53]
C
Yeah, I think we're about good. So, Dr. Jackson, I want to thank you for today. All right, we got some great stuff. And the blind nil team. Chris, Matt, Sierra. Thank you, guys. Thank you. I thought this was fantastic. And Dr. Jackson, you're just a wealth of knowledge and always looking forward to having you back on.
- [50:09]
B
I look forward to having myself back on.
- [50:12]
C
Thanks, guys.
- [50:13]
B
Thanks. The views, information or opinions expressed in the series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent those of Chip and Joanna Gaines. By no audio nor Magnolia.
- [50:29]
D
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