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The French Dip from Firehouse Subs is here for a limited time. Piled high with premium roast beef, caramelized onions and melty cheese on a freshly toasted garlic butter roll, every French dip is served with warm, savory au jus for dipping. This melty French Dip is only at Firehouse Subs for a limited time, so head to your nearest Firehouse subs or order on the app and try the French Dip before it's gone. Limited time at participating Firehouse Subs restaurants while supplies last.
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This episode is brought to you by Peloton Break through the busiest time of year with the brand new Peloton Cross Training Tread Plus. Powered by Peloton iq. With real time guidance and endless ways to move, you can personalize your workouts and train with confidence, helping you reach your goals in less time. Let yourself run, lift, sculpt, push and go Explore the new peloton cross training tread +@onepalaton.com hey everyone, welcome back to the show. And on today's episode, I invited in ex NFL football player Christian Ponder. And I know for a fact you guys are going to absolutely love this conversation. We started out in Christian's career as a high school player in Texas. Felt like a little bit of a Friday Night Lights conversation. Man, do they take their football series in Texas off to Florida State where he actually had a very successful career but was injured. And then I'm going off to the Minnesota Vikings where he spent a few years playing before pivoting off into what I find was something very fascinating. He opened this place. The we work for professional athletes. The we work for collegiate athletes. Very like minded people. It's called the Post. It's located one of their facilities located on 23rd between 5th and 6th in New York City, which is where I host this podcast. And it really is a place that's about community, it's about culture. Everyone in here, they were ex athletes, very driven and very like minded, very humble. I'm very at home here. So it was incredibly interesting to hear about Christian's playing career, but even more interesting to hear about his pivot into business. And we even, you know, touch base on, you know, viewpoints on kids now growing up in sports. He's got three of them that are very young. Mine are a bit older. But to hear his approach to dealing with his kids in sports and how parents, you know, how we both feel, some of them might be going a bit overboard, I think is going to make this podcast an incredibly interesting listen. Hope you enjoy. All right, so I'm here with Christian Ponder right now. First off, I want to thank you because you guys have housed us here with our Stronger with Don Saldino podcast. You, you've got a really interesting story because I think most people look at you as the football player, the quarterback, the Florida State alum, all these really incredible things that many people wish they can talk about. But I think what's equally as impressive is, you know, what, turning lemons into lemonade, you know, getting injured, career ending at a certain point, and pivoting into this business. So I want to talk about football life, if you don't mind. I would love to talk about where it started, college, what it felt like to. I mean, you red shirted your first year, getting into the pros, what that was like, the injury, the anxiety from the injury. And then when you realized it was, you know, it's like, all right, I did what I had to do. It's time to move on. How did you figure this out? That's equally as impressive. So if you don't. First off, thank you for being here.
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A
Yeah, of course. And excited to be on.
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B
Talk to me about, like, how did it start? Like, football.
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A
Let's, let's go bare bones.
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B
Like, where, where did that start from?
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A
Yeah, I, I grew up in Texas, right. Football is a religion, sports in general, Big deal there. And my, I'm one of two brothers. I'm the middle. And, you know, we're always outside. Like, I, I grew up on this amazing street where there's probably a dozen boys around my age, and we were always outside playing backyard ball, playing baseball, whatever we could. You know, this is like before video game generation. Like, it's very different now. We like to have fun. We were outside. If we were inside, we were bored out of our minds. And also, my father played football. He played at Florida State in the early 80s and played the NFL for a little bit. Played in the cfl and so football and our household.
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B
What position was he?
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A
He was nose guard, defense, lineman. So big, big dude. And.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I just remember, you know, he's just a very passionate Florida State. So every Saturday morning, like, you know, we were watching Florida State play. And, But I was a kid, like, I played every sport, you know, like, I, I, which is, you know, so interesting now there's probably a whole conversation to have on youth sports.
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B
That's a whole other podcast.
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A
Oh, that's. It's just, I, it's gross now, what it's become.
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B
Let the kids play and have fun and let them play different sports.
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A
Oh, My gosh, like now the private equity money's in it. It's become gross. But I was a mediocre quarterback. I was always like, B team in middle school, backup A team my eighth grade year. And in high school in Texas, you know, they don't want you to miss spring practice. So they told me, hey, if you want to be the varsity quarterback, you can't really miss spring practice.
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B
Is it really?
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A
What.
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B
What we see as New Yorkers is, is high school football in Texas is Friday Night Lights. It is. Was it like that for you? I mean, first off, how big was your school?
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A
Yeah, we were. We were big. I mean, we were. We were. At the time, 5A was the biggest classification. Now they have 6A, so we were a 5A school. We were the suburbs of Dallas, Texas. Chip Gaines, I went to Color Heritage. Chip Gaines went to Grapevine. So we were. We were rivals. He lived older than me, but. But we. Grapevine and Colleyville shared a stadium. And our stadium probably sat around 10,000 people. Wow. And that was small. On the other side of the street was South Lake Carroll, which is kind of this perennial. Every year they're competing for a state championship and they're sat 15,000, you know, and they had an indoor facility that the Dallas Cowboys modeled their indoor facility off of. Like, it's. It is very much like Friday Night Lights. It is totally insane.
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B
Chip Gaines is a lot older than you, by the way.
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A
Yeah. Chip Gaines is so old, I'm sending this. Him.
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B
I'm seeing him next week. He's like, by the way, one of the. Have you met him?
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A
Yeah. Oh, yeah, for sure.
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B
One of the coolest human beings ever. I'm going out to Waco to hang.
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A
With him and Joe. Like, extremely successful, just so humble and just such good hearted people.
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B
Even. Even with this show right now. They came up to New York, had lunch with Mel and I and they're like, we want to have a. We want. This will be fun. And you know, Chip and. Exactly. I think it'll be fun. Let's. Let's do it.
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A
He.
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B
He really is a savant in business. He's one of these people that incredibly creative. He's got a shirtless pic of me in the office as a joke.
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A
He's just.
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B
He's just a complete character, but truly, truly love him.
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A
So.
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B
All right, so you. So you were in this massive high school. Yeah, I would assume pretty successful in high school. Did you guys go to states, like, what ended up happening?
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A
No, for some reason we had all the unathletic slow white kids. So we, we were not great. When you're the quarterback and you're like the fastest and strongest guy on the team, he' bode well for your win loss.
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B
Right?
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A
You know, it was interesting for me. Like, my, my dad had such a big impact on my recruiting process because, you know, especially with my junior year, like, we, we just didn't have a ton of tape on me to put out there because we're running the ball. So he actually created a dvd. You know, this was all, all of our tape was on vhs. Now it's all digital now, but he got all the VHS tapes from my coach in high school, brought him home, cut out my highlights, burned it onto a DVD that he sent out to like 120 Division 1 colleges.
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B
That's awesome.
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A
And, and I, you know, I still have a copy somewhere. And so without him, I mean, I, you know, I wouldn't have received any sort of offer or attention. And you know, he was so impactful as a kid. Right. Like, work ethic matters, showing up for your teammates matters, all these things in sports and developing character, you know, that, that I relied on for the rest of my sports career, but also, you know, way beyond sport.
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B
So you redshirt your freshman year. Are you feeling discouraged during that red shirt?
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A
Yeah. Or.
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B
Yeah, so what?
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A
I was, I was. And I, you know, so I, again, because like, my junior in high school wasn't great. My senior year was good. I'd already committed to Florida State before my senior year. And you know, I was a three star, which I think all that rating stuff is crap, but I was a three star. A lot of people thought that I was just like this legacy, like, oh, my dad played there. I'm going to be kind of this, this backup career backup at Florida State. And, and so there was basically no expectations for me. And I remember my, my first year there. First of all, they originally told me, hey, we're not going to bring in another quarterback in your class. And they lied and they brought in another quarterback and they definitely, he was, he was athletic, he was, he was a great quarterback and they definitely favored him. So I think I came in like fifth, sixth on the depth chart and basically just felt like, you know, this is not what I was told. I was having a rough time and highly discouraged. And so I think there were moments that first year that I was like, is this where I should go? I almost committed to Georgia Tech randomly before Florida State had offered me. And I had like 20, almost 30 offers to a bunch of different schools. And so I stuck it out. And fortunately I stuck it out because our, basically our whole offensive staff changed. They fired the whole offensive staff. They brought in Jimbo Fisher, who had eventually became the head coach at Florida State, won a national title, was Texas A and M. And you know, fortunately for me, that spring, first spring practice, prepared really hard, worked extremely hard, and had a great spring practice as the third or fourth guy on the depth chart and made an impact early on. You know, first impressions matter to a point where, like, I remember when Jimbo first came in, we were sitting down at lunch together and he's the quarterback's coach, offense coordinator. And I go up to introduce myself and he's like, oh, what position you play? I'm like, coach, like, you're my coach. I'm a quarterback. You know, had no clue that I was like, even on the roster, apparently.
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B
Shit, this isn't good.
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A
Then. You know, that first practice we had in spring practice, just, I remember he did a press conference and they were like, hey, who stood out? And he singled me out as a guy that, that made a great first impression. And I think you, when you have someone that believes in you, that goes such a long way, you know, and I think hearing those words of affirmation, of like, you know, before having such a hard time, do I belong here? Do then a coach who was highly respected, he was so successful USU in SEC schools, and Flores had paid him a lot of money to come in. And him, you know, for me to be the one that he singles out is saying, like, no, Christian made a great impression and he had a great practice. I was like, you know, that, that had such an impact on my confidence.
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B
So amazing what good coaching and confidence can do to a player.
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A
1,000%. I would not have been a starter at Florida State. I would not have been in the NFL or first round draft pick without Coach Fisher as my coach.
- [10:24]
B
So you get. What year did you get drafted now?
- [10:27]
A
So 2011.
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B
So 2011 you go, and what was what. What changed for you the most? What was the thing that you feel like you were most shocked about when stepping onto the field? Was it the speed? Was it the size?
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A
Was it all, Was it all everything? Oh, yeah, it was. It was all of it, right? Because the speed, the size, the complexity of defenses, you know, like in college, it's, it's, you know, there's like, Nick Saban ran some complex defenses at Alabama, but for the most part, like, it was kind of simple in the NFL, right? Like, this is their full Time, job. Like, it's. It was just the preparation that was required and not only complexity of defenses, but also your offensive playbooks. Like, it's just. It's just a whole. It's a whole nother game level of game. And so your margin of error just shrinks, you know, and it gets smaller and smaller and, you know, and it's also different going from this dynamic where in college, right? The. Basically the biggest age gap that you have is, you know, maybe four years. Then you step on the field and you're like, you have this age gap of like 12, 13 years with a guy, has, like a grown man with family, he's got teenage kids.
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B
That's something. That's something that people don't talk much about, right? They talk about age as being a bad thing. And I think, like, I was a collegiate baseball player, and I. I found my. Comparing my strength when I was 20, 21 years old to when I was 30, 31, 32, I was a different person. You just develop this man strength. And that has to be something that I don't hear many people talk about. They talk about ages. If it's like, oh, he's older, he's slower. And I'm like, ah, I don't know, man. Like Barry Bonds at 38, no matter what he was on, he could hit the ball. And he was the strongest he was in his career at that age. So what did you see when you would start taking hits or when you would be playing against these people? Was there that intimidation factor? Because you were still somewhat of a. You gotta admit it, you were. You're somewhat of a kid at 21, 22, playing against men that are 32, 33.
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A
You know, they wanted to have a veteran quarterback on the roster, which we did not have, so they signed. But Donovan McNabb to be kind of my, My, My mentor and this veteran quarterback that, you know, we'll start before, you know, as they try to prep me before the season starts. And so that. That happens, we go into training camp. Massive learning experience for me. Donovan's the starter. I think he plays through like, five, six games. And I think maybe we won one game, you know, just weren't playing well. So they decided me, throw me in Sunday night. We're playing at Chicago, Chicago Bears. I'm not starting to. And. And we're getting blown out. So they throw me out, like, late third quarter, early fourth quarter.
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B
How are you feeling at that point? Because McNabb's kind of a legend, right? I mean, he. He really is I mean, you get to go in and play underneath him. You get thrown out Chicago. I mean, that's. That's no joke.
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A
Yeah. Look in. It's in division rival at Chicago. Jay colors, like, they're good. I mean, Jay was good. And you have some of these hall of Famers on the other side of the ball. So my, my welcome. So I go out there and I think what was good was, like, it was fourth quarter, game was already over, so there really wasn't any nerves. It was like, look, I'm gonna go out and have fun and just play my best. And I, and I played well. But I remember I, I, you know, one of the second plays or something, it was pass play. No one was open. So I run up the middle, and the first tackle that I ever had in a full game was Brian. Her lack. Brian tackled me, right? And so that was like. That was like, holy crap. Like, I grew up, you know, watching Brian Erlacher, and. And now I'm, like, playing on the same field him. And he was the first person to tackle me. And, and like, again, like, there's probably a 12, 13 year age gap between him and I. And again, a guy that I was watching while I was in high school. So that was like, again, just playing with grown men, and he's a Hall of Famer, and. And so that was, you know, that was an incredible moment for me. That's amazing.
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B
I mean, he was, he was vicious. He's a tough team. Yeah, he was tough.
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A
You know, so I start, you know, I start the rest of that rookie year. Won a couple games, had some really bad games. Start my second year, we make the playoffs. Had a good stretch early on. Kind of had a. In the middle of that season. Didn't. Didn't play that played okay. Had some not so great games. Then we, at the end of the year, we won four games in a row, including we beat, you know, Green Bay Packers, Aaron Rodgers at home to go into the playoffs. And then unfortunately, like, I. We didn't. That last game, right before halftime, we didn't pick up a safety blitz. And I'm. I'm throwing a ball over the middle and a guy plants his helmet into my. Throwing my. Basically my tricep.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I'm. I'm a bleeder. Like, I swell. And so I got the point where, like, throughout the game, I could just feel the swelling and Swelling all in your elbow. Yeah, like, but right in my, in my tricep. Like. Yeah, like, and. And it was just stiffening up.
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B
It's where they have to drain it.
- [14:54]
A
That. So that was in, that was early, that was in college. That was a different, that was a weird injury where like, again, like, I don't know, I'm, I'm, I'm injury prone, I guess, but I, because I, your.
- [15:02]
B
Quarterback, of course you every, no, you're, you're playing quarterback. It's, it's like a, it's like a death wish.
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A
And I was also a runner. Like I, I wanted to run the ball.
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B
Yeah.
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A
And I put myself in positions where like I, I was a guy that didn't like to slide, which was stupid. So we, we beat Green Bay. But that next day, like, I couldn't bend my throwing elbow like past this far because there was so much swelling and stiffness. And of course, like we, you know, our coaches, it's all about strategy. We're not gonna let anyone know that like, you know, you're kind of doubtful for this game unless something seriously changes. And so we would go, you know, when they have injury designations in the NFL, they actually take those very seriously. My theory is because of gambling issues, but like, you know, it like how many practices, how many plays you practice determines, like, are you doubtful, are you questionable, are you out or whatever. So we would always have this threshold of like, I would go out and especially in the press, the press was always out there at the beginning of practice to show my face as if I was going to be practicing and playing in this playoff game. And then I would, you know, hit whatever criteria would need to be questionable. So this whole time the assumption was I was going to play publicly, but privately we knew I was probably not going to be able to play because I couldn't throw the ball. And so we go out there, he's a game time decision. I go out there to like, at least just pretend like I'm gonna play. You know, in this game we go, so we beat Green Bay home. We're in the wild card at Green Bay the very next week. And, and I couldn't play. And so they ruled me out. And then the assumption was like, oh, like he was too weak to play or whatever. But we knew the whole time wasn't gonna play. And so that finished my second year in the league and then I think my third year in the league, like, I think I had so much, I put so much pressure on myself because you're really. Your third season dictates kind of are you going to get an extension in a contract? And I think I put so much pressure on myself like, hey, this is, this season is going to make or break my NFL career and I, I, I sucked. I mean I did not play well that year and, and then yeah, they drafted Teddy Bridgewater replace me that next year. So I was like the third string guy my fourth year with the Vikings and then after that kind of turned into a journeyman.
- [17:05]
B
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- [17:37]
A
Right?
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B
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- [18:03]
A
It's.
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B
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A
Yeah.
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B
It is a different type of mentality. You walk. Sebastian Stan came in here last week who's a famous celebrity. A lot of people know he is. Seb walked in and looked at me and just said, what the fuck is this place? And he said that, and I knew what he meant. He walked in, there was privacy. Everyone was driven. No one gave him a second take. You felt like you were part of something. How did you, you weren't thinking about this in high school. How did this, how did this come about?
- [21:52]
A
Look, just in my personal experience, like, I look as people, regardless of how you identify, like, we, we are drawn to be a part of something, right? To belong to something. And I, sport was that thing my whole life. You know, I was an athlete. I now always be an athlete. But to your point, right, it's so deeply and defined in who we are, in our identity and our mindset and kind of our operating system. And you, you belong to this amazing community when you're in it, and suddenly, like, the doors that are, are closed when you're done playing. And so, right. A lot of guys go through this, this crisis all at one time where it's a crisis of identity, a crisis, crisis of, of a sense of purpose, you know, structure and routine. You know, I think that's what's unique about sports is we really do have our handheld in a lot of ways. Like, here's, here's when you're going to work out, what you're going to do, how you're going to do it. Here's when you're going to eat, you're going to practice, when you're in college, we're going to pick your classes for you, like. And so you have all this structure that's given to you that you don't say, develop the muscles of your own self, accountability and structure. And so that's hard, but also that loss of community, right, like, you talk to so many athletes, hey, what do you miss most about playing? And the most common answer you'll get is the locker room, the team, whatever, which is just, in other words, for community. And so when I, when I transitioned out, my last year in the NFL was 2016, we moved to New York City because I was excited to get into business. I, I got my, you know, my undergrad for two and a half years in finance, got my MBA while still at Florida State, started second Masters because I still had two semesters left when in, in my playing days at Florida State. And so I was excited about that. And New York City was this big, ambitious, awesome place to go, figure that out. And it was really through that, like, that transition where I, I just, I missed being around athletes. And I think knowing that we're a product of our environment, right, we're so influenced by, you know, all the data around the five people that you surround yourself with and spend the most time with. And for so long those five people were athletes, right? People with all this drive and this ambition, this competitiveness and, and I thrived in that environment. And you moved in the corporate world and you're like, wow, things are just very different. And it was through that experience and this desire and to fill this void that I now had and missing this group that I was like, hey, what if I, what if I built this solution to my own problem where I can get reconnected with this group? You know, once an athlete, always an athlete. I think it'll always define who you are and saw this really unique opportunity to build this community for lifelong athletes and bring this group. How do we, how do we re leverage or rebuild this, this ecosystem where you know, we have this team to be a part of where people are holding you accountable, where you're, you're finding a lot of support but where you're tapping back into this group that is super competitive and ambitious and hard working. And now it's less about their performance in sports, it's much more about their performance in business. And that's, I mean our average age member is 40 years old. Half our members are VP level and above in business. And it's this really unique place where yeah, it's, it's just, it we're two and a half years in but it's filled that void for me. I've learned a ton from a lot of different people but it's been, you know, in this space is kind of an ancillary part of what we do if members all over the country. But it's really this ambition, it's really at the highest level, it's to give permission athletes to continue to be exactly who they are, you know, because I think a lot of us, you know, we go through this identity crisis and we've got to stop and put on a different identity or hat in the corporate world. But our whole push is no, like don't stop being an athlete. Don't shed all of those skill sets and that mindset you possess. You're just going to wear a different uniform, you know, now it's about business and less about sports. But it's the same qualities needed to be successful.
- [25:27]
B
And it's fascinating, I mean you use some words, community, culture, people. I opened my first gym I had for 15 years in 2005. The mistake I made out of the gate was I thought we needed this big Raise. And we had to make this the coolest, sexiest, like, the spot. And trust me, it helped. But at the end of the day, it came down to the people, the culture. What became fascinating to a lot of people that we drew in were they were all high achievers. They all pushed each other, they all opened the doors. It became this networking place. I hate that word, but it really does. We're going to go network. I'm like, just be around driven people, be around good people, and if they're good people, they're going to want to open the doors. But I get that feeling in here. This is a place where I take meetings, I do emails. Sierra and I will be sitting there. We'll be doing work in between podcasts. And when you bring people in, you get that feeling. There's never attitude. I mean, in the six, seven months I've been here, I've never ran into anyone who's given me a look. They all write, how are you? What's going on? How's it going in there? Little quick conversation. Everyone's off to work, everyone's serious. But you can see there's a little bit of that fire in there that is just different than what you would see at a normal. You know, I keep using the word we work, but it's just different. When you go in there and you go here. I feel like this is almost for another level.
- [26:46]
A
Yeah, well, you know, part of the origin story to this was, you know, we moved to New York. I was looking for the. These things to belong to. And Soho House was one of those places that I was like, oh, I should join and be a part of this. And look, the spaces are beautiful and. And, you know, the vibes are cool, but, like, I didn't belong there. Like, those weren't my people. And. And so this was like, how do I get around my. My people? And yeah, and I think, to your point, like, I think humility is a big part of an athlete's identity. This idea of being coachable and this admitting that there's always ways to keep learning and getting better. And I think that's probably all high performers, right? There's this confidence that you have, but also balanced with this humility of, like, yeah, there's always room for improvement. And I think that's this mindset again. I just don't ever think it leaves you. And to your point, like, yeah, we talk about network and networking, but we also, I think, communities, a more appropriate word, because we, you know, network feels transactional in a way. They're surface level. And for us, like, no, we want to build deep relationships, people that you can rely on and learn from. And. And so it's much more about community over network.
- [27:52]
B
It's funny. Every person that's in my life right now that I. That I value. I don't want this to come off sounding transactional, but we all add value to each other's lives. You know, I'm just on a friend with a phone with a friend, and I'm just saying, like, how can I help? Or she's done that to me even more than I have. And when you get around people like that who are really interested in watching you perform and excel, it's special. But when you use the word humility, that is probably the biggest difference I see in the places I connect with and the places I don't. When I go into an environment and there's ego and there's people walking around with attitude or looking you up and down, I'm not. I'm comfortable in a lot of places. I'm just not comfortable there. I can't deal with it. I don't want to go. I don't want to go to an event where I feel like it's just small talk.
- [28:43]
A
Yeah.
- [28:43]
B
You know, and I have found in my. I'm 48 now in my career, you know, you get those phone calls D. I love what you're doing. How can I help? And you're just like, wow, that's really nice. And I think so. That's to. To me, that's what's really special about this place. So in any business, you're going to run into some challenges. Right. I mean, it's early on. I remember in 0708, we're hosting corporate events for Goldman Sachs, Lehman Brothers, Bear Stearns. Two nights a week is covering my nut for the month. I mean, my. My nut for the year was 2 million bucks just to keep the lights on. That's 15,000ft. It was big. And when that vanished, for me, I had to pivot and I had to figure out a way to change my model a bit. It hasn't been always smooth climbing for you.
- [29:26]
A
Right.
- [29:26]
B
And that's what I respect about you is a lot of this. It's the athlete in you. It's like, listen, no one's career goes like this. How do we pivot from those moments that are tough? I mean, you guys are getting it now, which is why I want to talk about.
- [29:38]
A
Yeah.
- [29:38]
B
What do you think some of the tough things that you have to deal.
- [29:40]
A
With, yeah, look a lot, right? Look, the entrepreneur journey is, it's a roller coaster ride, you know, like, you go through these moments where like one day like, oh, this is going to be so successful in this massive story and it's going to be awesome. And the very next day it's like, we're not going to make it past next week. Scary, you know, and so I think as athletes, right, you lean in. You know, I think in a society that is averse to doing the hard thing, right, I always say this, like, we, we don't even go through the drive through McDonald's anymore. We get it delivered to our door doorstep. You know, that's how like lazy and like convenience we are. Like, we are averse to like going to do things that are an inconvenience or are hard. And I think as athletes, look, you, you understand that the hard thing is where you get better, right? Like, right. You know, right when you, when you tear down a muscle, when you're working out, that's how you have it grow back stronger. And for us, like, those adverse moments have always been the best learning opportunities. But the places to lean in and learn, right, like when things aren't going well, that's where you can figure out, okay, like, how do I learn from what's not going well to pivot and make this a more successful business. So, like, as we've thought about, you know, how our growth strategy, early on we used to have these big events. You know, like, early on we were successful because we would host these small events for like 10 people in a room. And I, you know, I would find people on LinkedIn that were like, you know, on their profile on LinkedIn. It was like, oh, I'm a VP at Goldman Sachs and I was a rower at Harvard. I'm like, oh, let's invite this person to dinner to tell them what we're building. And when you get a small group of people and, and have that ability to connect everyone, that works really well, to basically, you know, build up kind of our first 120 founding members that we launched with back in April of 2023. And then we're like, all right, how do we, how do we make these events bigger and invite more people to be a part of it. But what was end up being lost was, you know, we'd spend $30,000 on event and we invite 150 people in the room.
- [31:30]
B
You lost the intimacy, right?
- [31:31]
A
You lost the intimacy. And, and like, it was like, yeah, I'm not. What am I paying for, like, If I. It was, you know, you'd have an event for 130 people and you'd have 20 members in the room, and 100, you know, 10 people were not members. That's not exclusive. You know, like, and so we learned from that. We waste a lot of money on this, like, what we thought was gonna be this awesome growth strategy that sucked. And it's like, all right, look, you get in the film room, right? This is the athlete. You get in the film room, right? And what didn't go well, how do we learn from that? How do we apply that to make us better? Right? And that applies to that. It applies like, oh, this, you know, we do membership interviews, you know, because we care about the type of person that comes in. We kind of call it the no douchebag filter. Like, hey, someone looks great on paper. Let's have a conversation to make a good personality fit. But also, it's part of a sales call too, right? We're still early. We still. People don't really know what we are and what we do. So part of it's a sales call. And, you know, so I, I care, like, okay, who didn't I close and why? So, like, how do I, how do I learn from that and apply that to the next sales call? And I think that's.
- [32:32]
B
Where do you ever call them up and like, hey, what, what happened?
- [32:35]
A
Send some emails, you know, like, we try to gather some information and that's too. We've built in these forms of like, you know, if they decline, like, okay, why. Why did you decline? And not everyone feels that information, but like, you know, and I, I crave feedback. I need feedback because how else are you supposed to know how to get better if you don't get that feedback? And you know, and it's funny because I think a lot of our members, right, we have a lot of conversations and programming, and one of the most constant conversations is, Is like, hey, as a, As a manager, as a leader in my business who has people who have people report to me that are averse to feedback, they don't like it or are averse to, like, they're just not accountable. That's. That's hard to deal with. And, and for us, it's like, no, I, We. We need it. How. How else are you supposed to get better? So like, you know, we've designed this program of how do you give your own, you know, some self introspection and car. Give your own feedback? But, you know, feedback is a requirement to get better. And whether that's Learning from the business and things that aren't going well, when. When or right. Talking to teammates and, and how do I get better in these certain areas? What do I need to improve? But that's such a vital, you know, part of, of growing and building a successful business.
- [33:40]
B
In your, in your opinion, do you think that's what we're losing today is people. They're losing? Like, I always think about my family, like, kind of blue collar mentality, restaurant business family, grandparents came over from, you know, Italy and they worked. And it was just like, you work hard and feedback was. In an Italian household was, trust me, it was something I was getting in. It was, it was. And it was, it was a difficult transition for me because when I became a business owner in 2005, in the beginning I was a little more. A lot more vocal and my voice would be raising and there'd be that intimidation factor. And it wasn't that I was an asshole. That's what I was raised with.
- [34:21]
A
Right.
- [34:21]
B
But we're losing. I think there's a fine line now, like, don't yell at your employees, but you also have to be willing. You keep saying those adverse moments, those moments were like, hey, you didn't do this, right? This is how I need you to change. Do you think people just don't want to hear that nowadays?
- [34:36]
A
Yeah, look, I think, look, it's. It's hard to paint with broad strokes, right? But I think there are some trends where we see we, we. There's some entitlement, right? Because we went through this, you know, kind of decade of like, you can be whatever you want and you deserve happiness and you deserve these things. And like, I don't. Do we deserve that? Like, doesn't. Don't we need to earn it? Right. Isn't earning something a much better word than.
- [35:00]
B
It's a real conversation, man, this is not bad what you're talking. It's a real conversation.
- [35:04]
A
Yeah. And. And so, and we also went this moment where, like, we. We were so afraid to use language that might call come off as offensive, you know, but like, again, like, I need to hear what's true. And like, yeah, if, if I'm offended by what's true. Well, that's a me problem. That's not a you problem for giving me that feedback. And, and so I think we got to a point where, like, we were afraid to tell the truth because it might hurt someone's feelings. And we allowed people to, like, kind of like be in this bubble where, like, everything's great and that's not true. Like, we've got to get back to, like. Like, to your point. Like, you had to earn the food on the table, right? Like, you had to go work for it. And now it's this expectation that's gonna be given to me and. And the athlete. You can't. Like, nothing will ever be given to you. Right. You have to earn your playing time on the field. You have to. Or I was talking about, like, leadership is earned. It's not given. You have to go earn the right to have a voice in the room. And I think athletes understand that. And that's why, again, like, we see athletes, our whole slogan's leaders built by sport. We want more leaders built by sport. Because sports develops all this character of doing the hard thing and going through adverse moments and going through, like, yeah, it's a meritocracy, and it's a lot of things should be a meritocracy. Like, you want the best of the best, and you want to earn it. And I think. Yeah, I think over the last decade or so, we've gotten away from that a little bit.
- [36:21]
B
My son just is turning 17 in November. Just got his. Just passed his road test two days ago. So we're, like, waiting for him to get. To start driving. Like, holy. I'll never forget, he was playing hockey, I think it was about 10 years ago. He was in a. He's in a league, and I wasn't putting a lot into it. Didn't really connect with the sport. Didn't love it. He's a good athlete, but he's at an award ceremony, and a couple guys get a trophy, and he has to get one. He's like, well, I want a trophy. I looked at him, I said, dude, you didn't deserve one. If you want a trophy, go work harder. People get so offended about that. Where I find it to be one of the best moments. And I don't care if your kid's an athlete or not, but those moments of, hey, you want something, you got to work hard for it. And even when you work hard for something that may not be enough. Yeah, that is something that I don't want to say scares me, but disappoints me about now, about these times now. And again, I appreciate how you're not generalizing that and saying that, you know, it's for every. This is for everyone. But you're talking about trends. But I am seeing that trend. And I think. I think those moments where you. Excuse my language, when you fuck up or when you underperform or something goes wrong, you could look at that as well, that's a bummer. Or you can look at it and say I'm going to learn from that. And nowadays I'm saying how many people are actually trying to spin that as like I'm going to learn from this and I'm going to be better.
- [37:40]
A
Yeah, well it's your point, right? Like when you, when you remove like the reward system, right? Like we should be rewarding those that work hard and perform the best. And when we get to this whole like participation trophy, it's horrible. Like what are we teaching? You know, and that's why like I've, I have three kids. My kids are 11, 8, 7. And I never thought I would have the patience to, to coach my kids. Right? Because I think it's one thing like, you know, I'm terrible. I'm like, hey, just throw the ball. Like what do you mean you can't do this? Like I can't break down the fundamentals of like throwing a football. Like just be a good athlete. Like what are we doing? Especially now. I mean I'm coaching, I'm coaching my 8 year olds patience. Like oh my, you know, teaching flag football and it's like, you know, NFL knowledge does not translate to like being a good eight year old football, flag football coach because yeah, that's a whole other conversation. But this idea that like every again everyone is entitled to something, even if you don't work for it is, is, is a problem because it's not true. Like you've got, you've got to earn it. And you know, it was an interesting shift. I remember my, my, I'm the middle of, of three boys I mentioned earlier and my young, My older brother's 18 months older than me. My younger brother is like seven, eight years younger than me. And you know, we went through field day right now much school, we all had field day, right. Like, and when we went through it, my older brother and I, you know, you had ribbons. Like you got a first place, second place, third place ribbon. Yeah. In all these events. And it was, you know, it was a 50 yard dash and it was like the shoe toss or whatever and you know, look, it embraced the competitiveness and I think competitiveness to a certain point is healthy. Right. There's obviously a toxic level to that. When my younger brother went through it, it was no rib. Everyone got a participation ribbon. It was all a team activity. We did no individual activities. And it's just like, I mean, I.
- [39:22]
B
Think it sets a poor example. I really do.
- [39:23]
A
I do. Look, if you look at how America was built, it was built on competition. And we are that is a heart of like this, this country and, and for look for better force capitalism. Right. Like I think this builds on competition. And when you remove that and you remove incentives like that, that is a problem 100%.
- [39:41]
B
You remind me of a story when I was in the thick of it in the city. I couldn't coach my son's little league team, which in a way I was kind of happy about.
- [39:50]
A
Yeah.
- [39:51]
B
Be for the same reason that why we we talked about. It's like, wow, this is like, this is, this is different. But my wife coach and at first I started laughing and I was like what the hell do you know about Basil? But they were second graders at the time. Did she kicked ass because she, because she kept it about basic things. This is catching, this is throwing, this is hitting off the tee. Let's have fun. And she simplified it so much that when I would go to these games the kids were having a great time and she just knew how to deal with them. And it was, it was such a, such, it was such an eye opening thing for me. I know this is a bit of a pivot, but I want to get your because I know you got a strong opinion on this. What do you think parents are doing nowadays when it comes to their kids when they're really just trying to funnel them into one sport? They want them to be the next Tiger Woods. Give me your, give me your opinion on this.
- [40:37]
A
Yeah, it's, it's, I think it's a problem. Right. I, I, we had a recent conversation with, with this guy that he used to be chief medical officer at the USTA and he didn't make this up. He pulled this from somewhere. But I thought it was such a, a great way to think about it. First of all, I think like youth sports, like specializing at a young age is, is terrible. Right? Like the data proves it. Burnout, overuse injuries. These, these parents were like getting there and not to shame you, but like these parents are getting our kids like preemptive Tommy john surgery at 13 years old.
- [41:10]
B
Like what, what are we, what are you doing?
- [41:11]
A
We're losing the sight the of, of the purpose of sports. Right? We need to look at sports. For you. Sports it is character development. Right. That is the number one goal. So the way that we broke down or that he broke down, as we think about sports as you go from young age to older, no. 1 sports at a young age is about human development, right? That is building character, learning how to play on a team, being a good sportsmanship, hard work pays off all these things. That is the number one goal. And so that's playing a bunch of different sports, having letting kids have fun. That is what it's about. Then you move into athlete development. So now it's. Once we've got the character built, now let's actually focus on being a better athlete and cross training, investing and taking a little more seriously. And like, let's be holistically a good athlete. And then, you know, when you get to high school and all right, I'm better at football than I'm at baseball, then you get into the single sport development, right? And it goes as you get deeper into a sport and now it's like, look, I don't know who's more to blame. I don't know if it's private equity money that is taking advantage of, of like this parents desperation or really if it's the parents fault, but it's like this endless cycle that's like feeding into each other.
- [42:18]
B
Well, explain to me the private equity part. So how, how do you feel that would relate to it?
- [42:22]
A
Yeah, so, so, you know, private equity is buying all these clubs, teams, right? And, and they're pouring a lot of money into clubs and, and camps and all these things where there is this pressure. There's this narrative that like, if your kid wants to be, be on the U.S. women's National Team as a soccer player, they need to play club sports at age 6 and you need to spend $5,000 a year to be on this team. And so there's this prep and then what stinks is like, look, the best players. Like I grew up as a rec sport kid. Like, I didn't play club sports. I played rec for my local city in my town and it was awesome. Now the problem is, is all these clubs are pulling kids out of rec leagues and the talent rec is just not, it's not great. And, and so if you want to be the best, usually you have to play with the best. So there's this pressure to go, you know, get into, into some of these clubs. But this private equity is like trying to spin the narrative, like if you, if your kid wants to be, have a chance. And they always use the word exposure, right? If you want your kid to be exposed to college athletic opportunities, you know, you need to spend the money to do that. And so I think, I think it's terrible. I think it's a terrible cycle for my kids right now. Like we Want them to do all the sports. They're doing rec. You know, my youngest got invited for to. To do a club sport soccer league that she made. And, and so we're doing that, but it's. It's cheap. It's not a massive commitment. And for us, it's just to test it out. Like, you know, she's very interested to do it. She wanted to do it, but she's also doing basketball. She's doing other sports. But yeah, I think if you have a young kid, let them play every sport, Let them figure out what they really are passionate about. As they get older, if something's clear that they're most passionate about and most talented in, then you can start to specialize. But, like, that, that shouldn't happen.
- [44:06]
B
I've never seen. I've never seen a young athlete, you know, at 10, 11, 12, 13, maintain that trajectory. I hear more stories of, like, what you're talking about even in your career. Like, yeah, one of. Actually my.
- [44:22]
A
Really.
- [44:22]
B
One of my really good buddies, ex NBA player, name is Wally Serbiak. He played for the Minnesota Timberwol. He was in my wedding party. We were in elementary school together. We were in nursery school together. Wally in 10th grade was this like, lanky basketball player, probably 5 11, and his dad played in the NBA and ABA. And everyone's kind of like, oh, you're not gonna make it and this and that. And then out of nowhere, I'm turning to him on Friday nights. I'm like, what are you doing tonight? We're gonna go out. We're gonna watch movies over, so. And so he's, you know, I'm going down to St. Mary's I play this pickup league with my father. I'm like, oh, anyone good? He's like, yeah, there's some good guys. I'm like, well, who are you playing with? And he's like, he's like, you know, I'm playing with Chris Mullen and John Starks and Anthony Mason. And I'm like, you're in 10th grade. So, like, at that point, he starts playing with these kids. And then out of nowhere, like senior year, the kid just sprouts up and then goes off to Miami of Ohio and then scores like 43 points in a tournament. And you see him, like, he didn't know until he played in the Goodwill Games. He calls me up, he's like, I'm. I'm going. And I'm like, what the are you talking about? You're going? What do you mean you're going? Like, what route Are you going? He goes, they're saying maybe one. I'm like, he went, six, pick. So, yeah, but we didn't see this in eighth grade, seventh grade, he played soccer, he played baseball, he played basketball, he was skateboarding.
- [45:33]
A
Talent, look, talent will always be found out, right? Like, talent will be found and cream will always rise to the top. So like, and you don't want to peak too early, you know, and all this study about burnout and like, you know, I, I trained at IMG one year when I was in the NFL and it's like, where's that?
- [45:48]
B
Miami?
- [45:49]
A
It's in Bradenton, by Tampa.
- [45:50]
B
Okay.
- [45:51]
A
And you know, incredible campus. You know, like this whole business model is amazing. But, you know, they have these like 12 year old kids. At the time, tennis was their big thing, tennis and golf. Now they're at all sports. But like these 12 year old kids who are like, basically living like college students, dedicating their life to tennis with some academics on the side, and it's like they're going to be so burnt out by the time they hit age 18. But yeah, I think talent like that, if you're talented enough, that, that will happen as you get older and you will be found and it'll be fine. Like, all this pressure to feel like you've got to do it early is, it's, it's not true.
- [46:25]
B
These travel sports are, I don't even think, incredibly tough for the, for the kids. I can't believe that the parents have to go through. I've got friends of mine, one of my buddies is on probably two flights a week and he gets in for work, then he gets in Friday. Him and his wife don't see each other during the weekend because he's got one in Jersey and he's got the other one in Connecticut and they're from Long Island. And I'm like, what is going on here? It's brutal all day long. I think a lot of it, these organizations, I do think it's tough because they're, they're setting this bar at a really young age. And I get it. To each his own, right? Like, give them. You can't. Can you control that? Is that something that you think these organizations, because they're setting these programs up, is that setting them up for failure? Yeah, because it's there and they're offering.
- [47:11]
A
Well, right, look, as a parent, you want to, you want to give your kid the best, right? Right. So of course you do. I think the push is, is that best, you know, is, is it best to have your kid in this sports year round doing one sport. Like, I would argue that it's not, is it best for family life? Right. Like, what are your priorities? Like, are you going to give up all your weekends and not see your wife? Like, yeah. And that's detrimental to your family too. Like that's so I, I, I, I think giving everyone the permission that like, no, you don't, that that's not necessarily what's best for your kid's future athletic career. Like, it's, and don't feel the pressure. I don't care what the coach or the organization tells you. Like, and again, if your kid is talented enough to play college sports and you say, hey, I'm just going to step away from this club team and, and they're like, well, we're not going to invite you back. Well, if your kids talented enough, he's going to find another team, you know?
- [47:57]
B
Yeah, I totally agree with you. And the last point on that, I remember my son really into baseball. I wanted to go to a hitting coach for a while and I, and I, and we let him. And then after a while we, we pulled it away from him because we're like, listen, you can hit at home. This is fine. There's a cost. You got to understand. He comes to me one day, he was young, and he says, my coach says, you need to push me. And I looked at him and I, he's a young kid. And the good thing about my son, we got a really good relationship because I've always talked to him like he's an adult.
- [48:24]
A
Yeah.
- [48:24]
B
And I'm like the, you talking about push? You push yourself.
- [48:28]
A
Yeah.
- [48:29]
B
I'm not here to hold your hand with this. This is, this is, should be fun. Like if you want to be good at something, you got to push yourself. I'm not going to be here to push you in life. You got to learn. And again, these are really important lessons. I think as parents, I do believe it starts with the parents. I do believe that every case is different and you're going to recognize your child like you said with your daughter. And if there's that spark and they want to do it, let them go for it. But I think parents need to kind of assess. Are they doing this for their kids? Are they doing it for themselves?
- [48:54]
A
Yeah, for sure. And, and yeah, and parents, you know, it's funny, we, we had our first flag football game a few weeks ago and, and that was a Tuesday night, Wednesday morning, 8am we get an email like, oh God, this needs your attention. And it was like, number one, stop disrespecting the referees. Number two, stop disrespecting the coaches. Number three, parents stay off the field. And it's like, how are we losing sight of, of what the goal is here? You know, and it is. And these are eight year old boys, you know, it's like, what are we doing?
- [49:22]
B
Games. Games are tough, high school games. I go to them. Now I have to stand off to the side in the corner because I don't know how I'm going to react to some parent screaming at my kid. And it's just, it's tough.
- [49:34]
A
Which is like we had this problem with my oldest basketball team. Like, it is one thing look to, to, to try to push your, your own kid or say something to your own kid. But when you cross the line and you are yelling at someone else's kid, are you an idiot?
- [49:47]
B
Wrong.
- [49:48]
A
Like that is a problem. Like my wife almost, you know, one of the fight, some person, another parent that was doing this. It's like it's wrong. It is, it's flat. What are we doing?
- [49:57]
B
Well, listen, we're gonna take some. I can't thank you enough for your time. I can't believe that was already an hour. I really appreciate it. Hey, Chris, can we fire off those questions to Christian? And let's fire them off. Thank you, by the way.
- [50:07]
A
Thank you. Thank you.
- [50:08]
B
That was awesome. Appreciate it. So our first question is from Courtney. I'm gonna go ahead and play this question from Gordy.
- [50:17]
A
Let me know if you can hear it. See it. Here we go.
- [50:19]
B
Thank you. Hey, Don and Christian, it's Courtney here and Christian, I had a question about what was the biggest transition for you when it came to strength training post NFL career? And what was the biggest shift that you had to make in order to prepare yourself for strength training after you're done with the NFL?
- [50:37]
A
Yeah, that's a good question. I actually recently had this conversation with somebody. I think the biggest shift for me was to go from this idea that you, you, you lift, you train for performance to this shift where now it's more about health. You know, like I lifted two out. You know, you were in the weight room two hours a day and it was about being the best football player that you could be. And now it's, look, it's, it's more about being a healthy individual and, and, and still, like, I think it still translates to performance of business, but that like a 20 hour, a 20 minute workout is okay. Like you don't have to spend two hours and so that was, that was a difficult shift for me to make because I would make excuses early on. I'm like, I just, I don't have two hours to go. I'm just not going to work out. And that, that was, that was a miss. I think what I've also realized, you know, living in New York City, like, I can't stand. Look, even Equinox is a great product for a certain subset of. No, it's not. I, I hate it. And I think what I realized is like, no, I, and I, I left Equinox because I think what I also. So I made the shift, right? It was hard for me to go from working out for performance to working out for health. What I can't stand is working out for vanity. And I feel like when you're an Equinox, it is all about that. And, and so I don't know. So I've, that, that's another conversation, I think, you know, I, it's being okay with, like, I don't need to put, you know, I benched £400 in, in college. Like, I don't need to do that. You know, I don't need to put £315 on my back anymore. And I, you know, so I, it's just a different mindset. It's more about how do I, how do I maintain healthy. I think the goal is right, like how I want to be. I want to be an active grandparent, right. So I think it's playing the long game of like, how do I invest in the things. Now I definitely don't lift as heavy. I think lifting heavy is beneficial. But again, I'm not trying to be the heaviest lifter out there anymore. So I think it was just a shift of what, what are my goals? It's not to be the fastest, strongest football player anymore. It is about kind of more of a longevity play.
- [52:44]
B
And what's interesting about what you just said was going from the two hour workout to the 20 minute workout, because I agree with you. I think a lot of times we relate our success to that two hour workout. Oh, when I was in the NFL, I was working out two hours or when I was in high school, I was doing this. I was like, yeah, but maybe you can do 20 to 30 minutes and get a very similar mental response and, you know, physical feeling from that. I think it's just rewiring your brain to say, that's okay, it's okay.
- [53:10]
A
Yeah, yeah, don't, don't count time. Yeah, like it's, it's just A different way to measure success. And yeah. And then I think the other thing, like, look, it's, it's to create your own self. Accountability is, is hard. Right, because you again, when you're in sports, you're being told you had to be here to do this lift out at this time, this workout at this time. And, and now you don't necessarily have that. So I've actually tried to invest in accountability partners to try to create some of that for myself. But that is like a new muscle you have to develop when you're done playing sports.
- [53:42]
B
100. All right, Chris, next question. Last question. All right, here we go. Here's the next question. This is from Josh in Toronto. Here we go. Hey, Don and Christian. My name is Josh and I'm from Toronto, Canada. I'm coming off recent knee surgery and I'm just wondering if you have any cardio based exercises that only engage the upper body. Of course, I'm only going to do these when I'm, when I'm cleared from physio, but any suggestions would be helpful. Thank you. Well, this is interesting for you because when you hurt your shoulder, were there things with your lower body you were continuing to do? Did they have you train around that?
- [54:16]
A
Yeah, for sure. Yeah. Fortunately I never had any knee injuries, so I don't have any good sessions there. But yeah, like, look, tons of bike, right? Like I remember guys on the knee injury, like, look, it depends on what kind of equipment you have access to. But like, you know, the hand bike, I saw a lot of guys do.
- [54:29]
B
The airdon bike with your leg stable, battle ropes.
- [54:34]
A
But yeah, look with the, with the shoulders, like, look how, what, what can you do with your legs that, that wouldn't jeopardize the, the recovery in your shoulder? And I think same with the neither stage, tons of stuff to do upper body that wouldn't jeopardize your knee.
- [54:46]
B
100 I, I do like the air bike. I do like battle ropes. And I do believe that, you know, most doctors who say don't train when you're injured, always get approval from your doctor, but you are receiving a hormonal response, hormonal benefits in that healing process. If we could find out a way to train around it. So if someone busts their left elbow. Yes, I'm training their right arm. I am. Because there is carryover and there is visualization and there are studies showing that we can get this stronger when training the other side of the body. Dude, thank you man. I know you're jammed and I appreciate your time. And at the end of every episode, what do I always say? I always say I want to thank Christian Ponder the Post for hosting us, but it really has this for me, one of the big transitions after being an athlete in college was what defined me for 15, 20 years was my clubs and the fact that I had a home base in the city. So to leave that, even though I was moving to things that I was really excited about, not having that home base was something that was an adjustment for me because that defined me. I feel like I found that home base here.
- [55:51]
A
Yeah. Well, thank you.
- [55:52]
B
No, and I really want to thank you for that because you've allowed us a place to come in a few times a month, have meetings and feel proud about bringing people in here. And I really hope that you know people, especially living in New York City, you check this place out special.
- [56:04]
A
Well, I appreciate saying that and you guys have been awesome guests and we're pumped to have you in here and I'm pumped to be a part of this podcast. So appreciate letting you have him on.
- [56:11]
B
Thank you. Thanks guys. See you soon.
- [56:20]
A
The views, information or opinions expressed in.
- [56:22]
B
The series are solely those of the.
- [56:24]
A
Individuals involved and do not necessarily represent.
- [56:26]
B
Those of Chip and Joanna Gaines by Nil Audio nor Magnolia this Valentine's Day, the UPS Store certified packing experts are.
- [56:33]
A
Helping pack and ship all the ways.
- [56:35]
B
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