Why Avoiding Pain Keeps You Stuck (And What to Do Instead) | Elena Brower

Summary

Stronger with Don Saladino | Episode Summary

Episode Title: Why Avoiding Pain Keeps You Stuck (And What to Do Instead)
Guest: Elena Brower
Date: January 13, 2026

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Overview

This transformative episode explores strength beyond physical fitness, venturing into presence, grief, meditation, and the raw experience of being human. Don Saladino welcomes Elena Brower—author, hospice volunteer, meditation teacher—who shares insights on processing pain, the true nature of grief, cellular resilience, and the life-altering effects of meditation. They discuss routines for emotional resilience, approaching loss, and how to cultivate deeper meaning and presence in daily life.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. The Stories We Tell Ourselves

• Self-Limiting Narratives:
  Elena and Don discuss how anxiety and stress often stem from imagined stories and scenarios that don’t reflect present reality.
  • "The steel trap that we create with our stories leaves a lot of possibility out of the equation and we forget that anything is possible..." (Elena, 02:16)
• Letting Go:
  The practice of "holding less" and stepping away from these stories creates room for healing and clarity.

2. Emotional Resilience and 'Superpowers'

• Managing Emotions:
  Don labels the ability to control emotions as a true superpower in life.
  • "Controlling your emotions...might be one of the most...it's a superpower." (Don, 02:59)
• Finding Relief:
  Elena shares that, rather than numbing or running from discomfort (which she did for years prior to sobriety), she now leans into weightlifting and meditation as key practices for mental clarity and resilience.
  • "Every time I feel, you know, really at odds with my brain...I will go directly to weights and I will build via these two avenues a more trustworthy mind." (Elena, 03:52)
  • She talks openly about being 11+ years sober, highlighting the shift from numbing pain to addressing it head-on. (04:43)

3. Understanding and Practicing Meditation

• Approachable Techniques:
  Elena advocates for simplicity: stillness, awareness, and tracking breath—not esoteric traditions—are at the core of her daily 20-minute meditation practice.
  • "Sit very, very still and challenge myself not to move for 20 minutes a day. Not to move." (Elena, 06:45)
• Physical Posture Doesn’t Need to Be Perfect:
  Removing barriers, she emphasizes there are no strict rules—sit in a chair, or however feels comfortable.
• The "Flow" State:
  Through gentle attention to the breath, thoughts subside and a sense of unity with one’s surroundings emerges.
  • "It's as though the perimeter of my body has completely disappeared. And I and this room and this world are one thing." (Elena, 08:12)
• Benefits Over Time:
  Elena notes feeling “better than 20 years ago” due to a sustained movement and meditation practice. (05:40)

4. Meditation Retreats and Deep Insights

• Extended Practice:
  Elena recounts multi-day retreats at Upaya Zen Center, sitting for several hours at a time.
  • "We do seven one hour sets over the course of the day...The first time I did that, it was excruciating...By the maybe third or fourth day...I started to see and know my mind." (Elena, 09:32)
• Self-Knowledge and Forgiveness:
  Prolonged self-reflection reveals deep patterns, bringing understanding and self-compassion.

5. On Grief: Love in Disguise

• A Transformational Perspective on Loss:
  Elena redefines grief as an extension of love—a powerful reframing.
  • "I think about grief and it's love. It's just love that's transmuting." (Elena, 14:45)
  • "When you grieve the loss of somebody, it's just because you love them so much. How beautiful. That's what grief is. It's just love." (Elena, 15:05)
• Advice for Navigating Grief:
  Rather than resisting or numbing pain, Elena encourages allowing oneself to feel and witness grief fully.
  • "Feel it. Don't shy away from it. Don't run from it...That's just love present in your body." (Elena, 16:15)

6. Hospice Volunteering and Lessons on Death

• Bringing Presence to End of Life:
  Elena explains her approach to volunteering: entering a room with humility, asking how she can serve, and honoring the family’s process.
  • "Their process is my teacher. I know nothing. So I'll often walk in and do nothing and just sit in the corner..." (Elena, 16:57)
• Cultural Avoidance of Death:
  She argues for embracing the natural reality of death and recommends the works of Stephen Jenkinson for further perspective (Grief Walker, Die Wise). (17:48-18:00)
• Hospice vs. Prolonged Hospitalization:
  Hospice can ease both patient and family suffering, but Western culture often resists the process.
• Learning From Death:
  Some of Elena’s most profound life lessons have come from being present at the bedside of the dying. She shares a Zen story about a teacher drawing a circle when asked about afterlife reunion, signifying the cyclical nature of existence. (21:55)

7. Listening as a Form of Prayer

• Deep Presence:
  Elena describes the act of listening—especially in vulnerable settings (hospice and teaching yoga in prisons)—as her spiritual practice.
  • "The listening that I do to them is absolutely a prayer. The listening that I do in the hospice bed...that's a prayer, that listening that helps...There’s somebody there at least to bear witness.” (Elena, 27:34)
• Cultural Note:
  She shares an insight from Japanese business culture: the quietest person in the room is often the most important, reinforcing the power of listening. (26:42)

8. Guided Meditation (Live Practice)

• [28:52 – 32:39]
  Elena leads Don and the audience through a calming, three-minute breath and presence meditation.
  • "Lengthen your spine or lie down...take a deep breath in...as you exhale, let your attention settle in your body again...let the breath sweep the mind…"
• Takeaway:
  This everyday ritual can be adapted to any context and helps “rinse out” mental clutter, promoting both relaxation and cognitive resilience.
  • "Meditation is like that for the brain...all the extra...inputs, even violence that we witness...gets kind of rinsed out when we sit." (Elena, 33:56)

9. Listener Q&A

Q1: Deepening Yoga Mind-Body Connection ([34:54])

• Briana asks for advice on connecting to yoga’s meditative side and stress relief with inconsistent practice.
• Elena suggests adding resistance (squats, lunges) to physical yoga, which amplifies mind-body connection by engaging large muscle groups and supporting glucose storage.
• "Adding in squats...those kinds of additions...lead to a more meditative close to the practice." (Elena, 35:35)
• Emphasizes restorative poses (lying down at the end) for integrating movement and stillness.

Q2: Are There Mantras You’ve Outgrown? ([37:14])

• Kelly from St. Paul asks if there’s a mantra Elena once used but no longer needs.
• Elena responds her practice has distilled over time; she no longer relies on mantras but simply sits in breath and presence (Zazen).
• "I can just let the breath do the work, as it were." (Elena, 37:29)

10. Resources and Final Thoughts

• "The most important thing is to practice being present, to keep returning to that still place inside you." (Throughout)
• Elena’s book Hold Nothing and her site (elenabrower.com) are mentioned as resources.

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• On meditation:
  "Meditation teaches us to be nobody special." (Don, 00:22)
• On pain and strength:
  "If you have the ability to control your emotions, be in that situation...it’s a superpower." (Don, 02:59)
• On grief:
  "When you grieve the loss of somebody, it's just because you love them so much. How beautiful. That's what grief is. It's just love." (Elena, 15:05)
• On listening:
  "Listening becomes a form of prayer." (Elena, 25:56)
• On death and acceptance:
  "Death and birth are the two absolute facts. If this conversation helps one person to understand that death is actually natural...that’s freedom.” (Elena, 22:38)
• On transformation through service:
  "Every time I leave that place, I feel more full of my own life, more present, more ready for whatever is coming than I've ever felt in my life." (Elena, 24:39)
• On daily practice:
  "Just bring that awareness in and it should be practiced...you will get better and better at it." (Don, 33:16)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• 02:16 | Letting go of limiting stories
• 03:39 | Weights and meditation as emotional tools
• 04:42 | Elena on sobriety and self-numbing
• 06:45 | Elena’s daily meditation routine explained
• 09:32 | Extended meditation retreats and self-forgiveness
• 14:45 | Reframing grief as love
• 16:57 | Supporting those in grief & hospice volunteering
• 21:55 | Zen story on the cycle of life and death
• 25:56 | Listening as a form of prayer
• 28:52 | Guided meditation exercise
• 34:54 | Listener Q&A: Yoga and stress relief
• 37:14 | Listener Q&A: Mantras and meditation evolution

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Final Reflections

This episode offers a unique lens on strength—rooted in vulnerability, compassion, and acceptance of life’s transitions. Through Elena’s stories and practical teachings, listeners gain tools not only for fitness, but for cultivating peace and connection through meditation, presence, and courageous acceptance of pain. The conversation is both soothing and deeply practical, making it an inspiring resource for anyone facing inner battles or longing for deeper resilience.

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Transcript

[A]

Hey, everyone. Welcome to Stronger. On today's episode, I had the privilege of being able to interview Alaina Brower. Now, Elena is a very interesting person and this is completely different from any guest that I've ever brought on. Elena, and I want to repeat this correctly, she is doing profound work in the realms of presence, compassion, grief and service. She happens to also be a hospice volunteer. Remarkable human. Human being. Author to the book Hold Nothing, which I'm very excited to dive into. I think there's some incredible takeaways today. I'm going to give you a couple of nuggets. One meditation teaches us to be nobody special, which I thought Matt was very interesting. And my favorite one, listening becomes a form of prayer. We speak about anxiety. We speak about dealing with the day, the daily hustle and bustle and the stress that our bodies go through. We even go through about a three minute meditation practice, which I found very.

[B]

Relax.

[A]

Relaxing. I saw Matt when I opened my eyes, I saw Matt meditating back there as well.

[B]

And I know this is going to.

[A]

Be a very valuable episode for everyone. There is at least one takeaway that you're going to leave with and I.

[B]

Know you're going to incorporate this into the rest of your life.

[A]

That's how powerful this is. Let's show you what it's about. Alaina Brower, I'm just so excited. I mean, you're doing this right now and I appreciate that, but I'm the one who should be doing that. Back to you. I listened to you speak at Dr. Gabrielle's event. You're doing profound work in the realms of presence, compassion, grief and service, trying. You are also a hospice volunteer. What is the purpose of this episode? I think people fight the fight within themselves and I think that's the biggest battle that most individuals battle with. I know I do. It's, you know, you might be on the train ride thinking about something that just doesn't exist, or you're creating in your head and being out of breath because of just stress and anxiety. And, you know, I want people listening to this to say that this is going to be a very therapeutic episode to where they're going to be able to go with some takeaways and just work on themselves. And that's, I think that's all we can do.

[C]

The steel trap that we create with our stories leaves a lot of possibility out of the equation and we forget that anything is possible in terms of, you know, healing in relationships, creating more clarity in our brains, our hearts, our lives, our families. We create these Very real stories, like you said, get out of breath thinking about them, but they're not actually happening. And so how do we sort of let go of those stories and hold less is kind of the question that I have for myself.

[A]

Was there a time of your life where you feel like you didn't have this type of control?

[C]

Most of it.

[A]

Okay. Do you still. Where are you now with it? Do you feel like you can control? Because controlling your emotions I think might be one of the most. It's a superpower. If you have the ability to control your emotions, be in that situation when someone says something to you or bumps you or has a conversation with you and you leave there thinking about it. Like, what did she mean by that? Right, like, like that's it's a superpower for that to be able to roll.

[C]

Off, to not make up a story about it.

[A]

Right. Two questions. Does that ever happen you now where you do get frustrated or agitated or. There is.

[C]

Oh, yeah.

[A]

And how do you handle that?

[C]

I instantly go and lift weights.

[A]

I love it.

[C]

I'm promising you. This is really what's true. And Dr. Gabrielle, I have to blame for that. She's the one. When I was 47, she said, okay, time to go. Chop, chop. Weights now.

[A]

It's magic, isn't it?

[C]

Magic? And every time I feel, you know, really at, at odds with my brain, if I can't sit for meditation, I will go directly to weights and I will build via these two avenues a more trustworthy mind.

[A]

I've always struggled with meditation. For me, a form of meditation. It reminds me of yesterday. I'm at the desk, I'm working, I'm getting a little. And I went for a 25 minute walk to the seminary, which I live right next to him back. And by the time I got back, I said, wow, this really is magic. Like, I feel like a different person. Got some steps, feel relaxed, now I can focus. It's interesting how people will revert to their forms of relief differently. There's drugs and alcohol. There's maybe a reaction.

[C]

I had that for a long time.

[A]

Yeah. How many years?

[C]

I'm 11 plus years sober.

[A]

Congratulations.

[C]

Thank you. It's the best. But I will say to your point, many, many years of numbing myself and sort of running from what it was, that was very dastardly, uncomfortable. And now I think the two, the, the movement, weights, walking, whatever it is, I find weights to be so good for. I mean, literally the minute I begin to pick up a weight, my entire chemistry changes. But both is ideal if you can do some sort of weights, you know, resistance training of some kind, and sitting in meditation. And we can get into this. Maybe we can even sit. Cellular resilience is.

[A]

Talk to me about that for a lot of people who don't understand that term.

[C]

So we have all of these cells in our body and every single organ, all around the organs. Just picture all the little cells swimming around. I like to think of it as when I lift weights and when I sit to meditate, all of those cells go from sort of clumping up in weird configurations to swimming around each other in harmony like traffic, traffic in Rome. Everybody's moving with each other. Nobody's getting too angry. Everybody's just moving around and dealing, harmonizing. And that's what happens to ourselves when we lift weights. That's what happens to ourselves when we meditate. And both together is, wow, I. I've never felt better. I feel better than I did 20 years ago. I really do. And I can't. I can't question it. I just can keep practicing both.

[A]

Do you do find this as a practice where when you started, it was maybe a bit challenging? And as you're doing it, how many times a day do you meditate? Is this something where it's just 10 minutes a day, or do you feel like your whole day is a meditation?

[C]

You know, the most important thing that I do is actually sit very, very still and challenge myself not to move for 20 minutes a day. Not to move.

[A]

Just like sitting. Like you're sitting now?

[C]

Yep, sitting still, Feet on the ground or seat on the chair, or seat on the cushion, whatever it is. Spine tall, dignified.

[A]

What would the posture look like? Can you show me? I'm just curious.

[C]

I can take my shoes off because it's kind of nicer to.

[A]

Oh, okay. Just. Just there.

[C]

Yeah, you're about there. And because you have a weight training practice, you're upright and you can manage that holding that.

[A]

Would it be okay for me to sit like this and not cross my. My legs?

[C]

Totally. So you sit here, sit on chairs.

[A]

You just sit here and go quiet.

[C]

And you go quiet and you watch your breath for a while and I'll sort of walk you through what I do. The first thing that ends up happening in my brain is I run through the day first thing when I sit and kind of consider where I want to be statewise in all of those places. This is not actually technically meditation, what I'm saying to you, but it is what I do.

[A]

It's what happens is almost like you pre journaling Your day, you're actually going through each event saying, this is how I want to attack these things throughout the day and this is how I want to feel and this is my mission. Right, so you're almost kind of manifesting that in the future for 20 minutes, breathing into it and well, that's just.

[C]

For like 30 seconds.

[A]

Okay.

[C]

I'll run through the day, I'll check, you know, check in with what I want to bring to each of these situations. And then I'll track my breathing, inhaling through my nose, down into my belly, really fill up here, exhaling from my belly, out through my nose, and I'll start to just follow that flow really gently and intimately for some minutes. And at a certain point I completely lose track of that flow and I'm just existing. It's as though the perimeter of my body has completely disappeared. And I and this room and this world are one thing. And that maybe that comes for 10 minutes or 5 minutes or 15 minutes, but all the sort of extra rumination that was happening mentality, falls, drops, so.

[A]

You'Re not thinking about any other things or obstacles. You just, you think through, you feel like through your practice, you just fall into that flow. And some days I'm sure you're doing it for 30 or 40 minutes and other days maybe it's 10 minutes. It's just, there's no time. This is just you being you until you feel like it's time to come out of that. What's the longest you've ever gone into? I mean, are you going to give me something like seven hours in Nepal or something crazy or like there, there, there has to be something extreme. And I know it's, it's just a fun question.

[C]

The seven hours is. You read my mind. Because there are weeks of the year, two to three weeks of the year, where I will go and sit at the Zen center near my house. Upia Zen center. And we do seven one hour sets over the course of the day. I will tell you that the first time I did that, it was excruciating to sit there with myself.

[A]

I'm sweating right now thinking of this.

[C]

I know. And by the maybe third or fourth day, I was starting to understand, like, oh my God, this is how my brain has worked all this time. It almost brings a tear to my eye. This is why I have consistently put myself into these situations with romance, with work. This is why. And I started to see and know my mind. And in that moment and a series of moments, after replaying certain memories or realizing why I'VE done what I've done, I start to find this level of forgiveness. And that seems to be, for me anyway, the kind of magic of the practice of meditation. Because I know myself now. I'm not gonna go and do that thing again. I'm not gonna go and say those terrible words again. I'm not gonna mistreat that person again. I know how my mind works. I know why it happened the first time. It's not gonna happen again. And if it does, I'm going to be much easier on myself.

[A]

It's amazing how we can change. And you look like you're 38. I mean, your skin's perfect. I mean, do you feel like your health has drastically improved as you drastically. And I'm not even saying it's improved. I know it's drastically improved. Like you. How old did you say you were? 55.

[C]

Did you. 55. Just.

[A]

Happy birthday.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

What was it? What was the date?

[C]

October 13th.

[A]

I love it.

[C]

Okay, yours.

[A]

Income Tax Day. April 15th. Oh man, I gotta say that people never forget it, but it's just always a fun.

[C]

Forget it now.

[A]

It's always a fun little fact.

[B]

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[A]

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[B]

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[A]

You know, unfortunately, we all have to go through death in life.

[C]

Yes.

[A]

What is your definition of grief? Not just about death, but any transition, identifying loss, relationship shifts, or just a life change.

[C]

It's so beautiful. I think about grief and it's love. It's just love that's transmuting. It's just love when you miss your grandmother. I miss my grandmother so much. Grandma Bell, what was yours?

[A]

My grandma Tita and I had a Grandma Elsie.

[C]

Oh, my God.

[A]

Both are gone. Both are, both are up there right now.

[C]

Tita and Elsie.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

And Belle. You know, there's a. When you grieve the loss of somebody, it's just because you love them so much. How beautiful. That's what grief is. It's just love. We're so lucky to feel grief.

[A]

How long did that's like. To me, it's just. It's such a different way of looking at it. I'm smiling right now because I wish it was that simple. I mean, I think sometimes about losing my dog who's 13 right now, and.

[C]

I'm like, what kind of dog?

[A]

He's a little blanca. His name's Sambuca. He's like, I've got. Yeah, I got three Russian dogs. Sambuca, rigatoni and zeppeli.

[C]

Oh my God.

[A]

They're, they're, they're, they're beautiful. But these dogs, Sambuka Got me through some rough times in business. So I would come home at night and I'd have time with my kids, and I would always sleep with him in bed with my wife. And I remember just looking at those little human eyes and just being like, buddy, is it going to get better?

[B]

Like little.

[C]

Tell me.

[A]

But you have this bond. Yeah, dogs are like people I've had, and you have this bond. And I think to myself, how am I going to be when he's not here? And it gets me. It gets me choked up. But, yeah, I want to look at grief as love, but it's painful.

[C]

Yes, you feel the pain. The pain means that love is present. But feel it. Don't shy away from it. Don't run from it. You know, if you're listening to this and you feel pain of grief, feel it, don't run. Walk with it, talk with it, move with it. That's just love present in your body. It's so beautiful. And yes, it hurts. Yeah, love hurts.

[A]

What's your advice for someone who is. Has to experience it? If there's a friend or someone that needs your support, but you feel very. You're struggling to be there because it's very difficult. How would you tell them to think about the process of going in there and. And being helpful?

[C]

I often just ask people. You know, I'm in different situations in the hospice all the time. Different families, different kinds of people. Everybody's got their own process, and their process is my teacher. I know nothing. So I'll often walk in and do nothing and just sit in the corner and, you know, ask first. Obviously, you know, do you mind if I sit in here? If there's a family member? If there isn't and someone is dying and they're not conscious, I just sit still in the space so that there's somebody there. But if there is family there, I'll often, you know, say, you know, what would serve? Can I bring you some food? Can I bring you a drink? Is there anything I can get for you?

[A]

Do you find that they're scared or do you find that they're. They've kind of accepted that this is what's going to happen and it's inevitable.

[C]

All kinds.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Some people are really ready for it. You know, it's a hospice. So ideally on this planet, the movement would be toward more people going to hospice much sooner. I was just at a funeral yesterday for a friend's dad, and they didn't put him on hospice. They literally had him in the hospital kind of struggling and Suffering against his own death for several weeks. And he probably could have been on hospice maybe three, four months ago. That would have mitigated all the discomfort. Hospice is really just, you know, easing pain care, comfort for the patient, which then translates into easing pain care and comfort for the family. So we resist it where in this culture, we sort of run away from death. If you have ever an interest in reading, Stephen Jenkinson's books are incredible for this. He's very well known in the space. He has a movie called Grief Walker on YouTube that's free. He has a book called Die Wise. He has a book called Come of Age that I would love for you to read because as you get older, you are becoming an elder and you are going to be an incredible resource for people who are younger than we are.

[A]

Well, I'm looking forward to reading this.

[C]

Thank you.

[A]

Old nothing. I mean, this is kind of your life's work in a way. I mean, how would you categorize this up until now?

[C]

Yeah, I would say that is. It's a compilation of pretty deep personal experiences and how they translate into a universal understanding of what this life really is, what meaning can bring to our lives, how I'm still a work in progress trying to find that meaning and create meaning for myself. But to finish that thought on the hospice, I think there's a lot of different ways one can approach these moments of a relative's death. If it is hard, if you're listening to this and it is hard for you to imagine letting this person go and actually actively offering a relative of yours comfort drugs, literally, that will help them stay out of pain, but will also start to pull them away from active living. We have to really think about what the trade off is, this person's comfort.

[A]

Or your comfort, because that's really what it is. I mean, I don't want to say that to where it's so simple, because I think there's this belief and there's this fight that we all have that they're going to be okay and these are my parents or this is someone that's been close to me and we can have that miracle and they can pull out of it. Right? It's. It's. It's. It's an incredibly tough thing to have to say. This is. This is done, right? It's not my. It's not my DNA to, To. I don't want to say give up like that, but you are putting it into a. You're giving it a very good perspective, right? Because you're basically saying Is it you? Is it you? Or is it them?

[B]

Who.

[A]

Who's more important here?

[C]

And then what do we do when we jump over all of this? You, them? What's more important? Go to here and look down and see. Wow. Death and birth are the two most factual, natural processes of this life. So why are we running?

[A]

I was in Doc Mar. Dr. Marr, who delivered my wife's. Both my wife's kids.

[C]

Okay.

[A]

Both my wife's. Both my children.

[C]

Yes. He.

[A]

We were at his burial years later, and the priest who was sending him off and doing the eulogy, who did the mass Doc Mar brought into this world when he was born. But he got up there and said, doc Mar brought me into this world. And now I'm sending him off. And I literally sat in the crowd just with like, yeah, it was. It was. It was. It was beautiful. It gets me emotional thinking about it right now.

[C]

There's a story. Just before my sort of great, great grand Dharma teacher in the Zen world, he. His name is Sean Ryo Suzuki. He brought Zen to the States essentially in the late 50s. He was on his deathbed. One of his acolytes went over to him very close to his death and said, well, I see you again after you've died. And he didn't speak. He just went like this and drew a circle in the air. Gives me the chills every time. That's what we're talking about. Death and birth are the two absolute facts. If we can. If this conversation helps one person.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

To understand that death is actually natural. Not to resist it, but to let the thing happen, let the wisdom of the process of death occur without meddling with it. That's freedom.

[A]

It's powerful. How did you become a hospice volunteer? This is not.

[C]

I have no idea.

[A]

But this is. This is like, oh, like, hey, I'm going to go volunteer at the food stand. Like, no. Like, you became a what? What? I find that would be one of the most difficult things to do is to see someone in their last moments. You're volunteering to do this, and it's got to be incredibly comforting for that person to have someone like you in that moment rather than being alone.

[C]

Totally. And one of those weird moments where I was sitting meditating for a number of years. I was about to start training to be a chaplain, which I'm now in that training, almost done. A volunteer training opened up, and it was a week, a whole weekend, like four or five days. And I was just, yes, I'm going to. That. I'm going to Change everything about that weekend. And I'm going to that training. I don't know exactly why, but I'm going. And I sat in a room, tiny little room like this with a few other people and went through scores, legions of. Of rules, paperwork, stories, all kinds of information, fed myself with all this information. And I decided at the end, I'll know if I need to do this or not. Blood work, shots. And I did it. I went ahead and did it and started. Every time I leave that place, I feel more full of my own life, more present, more ready for whatever is coming than I've ever felt in my life. More happy, more grateful.

[A]

But there's a. There's a moment of sadness and emotion.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

So you go through that, and then you're able to turn that into a moment of gratitude.

[C]

Well, I mean, there were tons of times where I've gotten too close to a patient. These things happen. You go over the edge and make mistakes.

[A]

Is that. Is that a bad thing, though?

[C]

I don't. I try not to go good or bad, and I try to just focus on, okay, this is what just happened.

[A]

But you said mistakes. That's why I'm asking you.

[C]

I say mistakes because I know where the edges are. Having had this training, technically I shouldn't be personally involved or, you know, invested, let's say, but it happens.

[A]

But you're human.

[C]

I'm a human being.

[A]

You're not a robot in there. You're trying to.

[C]

How human of me to do that. And I, you know, I can backtrack and calibrate, and that's. I'm kind of constantly doing that. And it's easier now. I've had, like, three years now, and I can go into a situation and I can see where my little heartstrings are getting tugged in that direction, and I can just hold steady, practice, do what's needed, go home.

[A]

There's a lot that I've heard you say in interviews, but there's certain things that stuck out to me. One is, listening becomes a form of prayer. Listening becomes a form of prayer. And I immediately thought of my dad when I was a young kid. He would just look at me and say, listen before you speak. Because I was always so quick to talk. You give a quick response, it's the wrong response. It shows a lack of thought. It shows a lack of confidence. Business meetings, if you're the person doing a lot of talking, that, to me, shows something, maybe that shows a lack of experience. There's so many things that listening. Listening is such an important attribute. But when you said it becomes a form of prayer, what do you mean?

[C]

One thing before I say that. The. In Japan. I took a really cool business etiquette course when I was at Cornell my last year, last semester, in fact, and it was awesome. And we learned that in Japan, the quietest person, the. The table is the head human. It's the boss. And I never forgot that. And I've tried to live by that. I don't always succeed when I'm in the room with somebody who's dying. I also teach yoga in a penitentiary to men. Level two. Just great beings.

[A]

What's that like?

[C]

It's awesome. They just made a stupid mistake.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like I'm not. We're not having the conversation about whether I would excuse any of these things. I don't know what they've done.

[A]

Right.

[C]

I never am supposed to know. We can only do elbow pound or fist pound by way of greeting. But the listening that I do to them is absolutely a prayer. The listening that I do in the hospice bed, when somebody is like breathing at the end of their lives, the breath is getting very labored. It's really not easy to watch sitting there as. Wow, it's really hard sometimes. But that's a prayer, that listening that helps that. That serves that person. There's somebody there at least to bear witness to them. I don't know exactly what I'm doing, but I'm just being still and listening and. And yeah, it feels like a prayer to me.

[A]

This, this is incredible, by the way, and I'm very grateful for you coming on here. There's so many important takeaways. I would love it, if possible, because we have a few more minutes.

[C]

Sure.

[A]

If you could take us through a little bit of a guided meditation. I know this is a little unorthodox to what we normally do, but maybe it's a three minute meditation. I know it's probably too short, but what I want, I would love to see and give our listeners, viewers, hopefully they're watching, an idea on what they can start implementing in.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

And then we have a. We have a list of questions. We've got like two questions coming in from guests that want to ask you directly and they've been filtered and they're fantastic. And this is just an honor to have you in here. I think you're a special person and I know you're a special person. And so would you. Would you mind if we did that?

[C]

Happy to do it.

[A]

All right, I'm following you, coach.

[C]

Great. So if you're listening to Stay with us. It won't be long. It'll be like two or three minutes. Just stay with us. Lengthen your spine or lie down.

[A]

Okay?

[C]

Okay. Don, you're gonna lengthen your spine. Sit nice and tall. Ideally, if you're sitting, your seat is a little bit higher than your knees. In this particular case, yours isn't, so it'll be a little more challenging. However, lengthen the sides of your waist. Feel like the crown of your head is reaching to the sky. Take a deep breath in and sort of gather all of your attention from all the parts of your day, this conversation. And as you exhale, let your attention settle in your body again. Inhale through your nose, down into your belly, and exhale. Let everything settle, and you'll start to notice little thoughts emerging. Your brain is responsible for submitting those to your consciousness. Notice them and just let them all pass one at a time. And as my dear teacher says, let the breath sweep the mind. Let the next inhalation and exhalation clear that whole thought process and settle you. And we'll take a few breaths like that in the silence, allowing your attention to rest on the flow of the breath, noticing when you resist and you want to get up and you want to do things and just stay with yourself, There's a presence underneath the flow of the breathing, The sort of presence that is noticing everything. The sound of my voice, the sound of your breathing, the feeling of the posture in your body. Can you rest your attention now on that awareness, that presence that sees all of it? We have about five or six more breaths here. Just stay with the stillness. Noticing the resistance. Resting your attention on the part that sees it all. Your eyes can be open or closed. Last two breaths here. Good. And then gently bring your chin to your chest. You can open your eyes if they were closed. And when I finish my practice, I just bring my hands into gasho like this. And I bow to my teachers, to myself, to the practice, to the whole world. And I dedicate any merit of my practice to all beings, to anyone who needs it, Anyone you're thinking about today who really could use it, to them.

[A]

Fantastic. Were you doing that too? Yeah. You are? It's very. It's amazing. We were probably, what, three to five minutes there? Maybe in the. In that, Maybe at the most, but it just shows. Do you feel more relaxed now? Is your breathing more under control? Am I sweating as much? Maybe, but this is something that anyone can do anywhere. You can do this on the train in the morning, coming into the city, if you're going home, if you have a minute, a couple minutes at your desk, you're not saying that this has to be anything robust or crazy. Mix it in for a few minutes and just bring that awareness in and it should be practiced. Right. And you will get better and better at it. My mind went a couple times.

[C]

Yeah.

[A]

I started thinking about, I started thinking, what are people going to think about this if they're watching the meditation? It is what I wanted them to experience this. And that was an incredible experience for me. So thank you.

[C]

I think also we don't. We sort of discount the fact that a lot of people are starting to see the science is there for the fact that we are younger cellularly when we meditate. It literally reverses our biological age to be having a regular sitting practice. And similar to a really rudimentary way to say it is, you know, when you take a shower after you've had a workout, you're sweating your ass off. Yeah. Meditation is like that for the brain.

[A]

Yeah.

[C]

Like all the extra, all the sort of garbage and, and inputs, even violence that we, we witness, whether it's entertainment or in real life, all of it gets kind of rinsed out when we sit. There's a very real process that happens. Longer telomeres, cellular repair, cellular resilience, as we said, memory is improved, drastically improved. And biological age changes when we meditate. It's a very real benefit to us.

[A]

Well, thank you for that. And hey, Chris, can we take a few questions? Yes, this is great. Thank you.

[D]

Yeah, it's 7:15 where I am, so I'm ready for the day.

[C]

Let's do this.

[D]

All right, so this first question is from Briana and she has a question about her yoga practice. So I'm going to go ahead and play this for you.

[C]

Cool.

[D]

It's an audio question from Briana. Here we go.

[E]

Hi, Donna and Elena. My name is Briana. I've been practicing yoga regularly, but I find myself staying mostly in the physical practice and haven't really connected with the meditative or spiritual side. Or when I do touch on it, I have a hard time staying there. My schedule ebbs and flows, so some weeks I'm on the mat multiple times and other weeks I'm lucky if I even get there once. So do you have any advice for deepening that mind body connection when my practice time is inconsistent? And are there any other specific techniques you'd recommend for using yoga to manage stress both on and off the mat?

[A]

Yeah, that's great.

[C]

It's a Great question, Briana. Thank you. I think one of the. One of the things that I've started to do in my own yoga practice as I've gotten older is I'm actually adding some resistance components to it. It's really funny. And then we'll get to the point about meditation, too. Adding in squats, adding in some sort of lunge step backs. The things that really build the muscles that are the storehouses for glucose in the body. Thank you, Dr. G, for teaching me all about this. Those kinds of additions to a yoga practice, for me, lead to a more meditative close to the practice. So even if you're only getting it to, you know, once a week or so, if you add these little components in, you're actually optimizing your yoga practice, adding resistance, building muscle, and you'll wear yourself out to the point where at the end of the practice, you'll actually. I would invite you to. And you'll probably want to sit very still and let your breath come and allow yourself to have that sort of cellular moment of repair. Also, lying down is great. So that's a meditative aspect of yoga as well. Lying down at the end, really relaxing, really letting everything go and allowing your body to absorb all the movements that you've just done is hugely beneficial. I'm living proof of this. Living proof of this.

[A]

Just for me, I was thinking how much better I just feel from three minutes of breath work. It really is. It really is magic, and it's free. Chris, let's take the last question.

[D]

Yeah, so the last question is a written question, so I'm going to read it for you. But this is from Kelly in St. Paul, Minnesota, and she'd like to know if there's a mantra that has helped you in the past, Elena, that you no longer need today?

[C]

There is. There are several. And I no longer use them because now I found Zen. I was, you know, practicing Vedic meditation, Kundalini. I've done it all. I've tried it all. And what I found at the end of this road is that Zen for me has very, very little extra. It's just what we just did. Zazen, sitting, watching, allowing everything to be kind of illuminated and then shed. I can see that tendency. I can see that thought. I'm just going to let the breath sweep it away. And I no longer really need a mantra to anchor anything to. I can just let the breath do the. Do the work, as it were.

[A]

I love it. Well, thank you. I mean, this is. Could you. Could you tell everyone if they want to Learn more about your practice or I know your. Your book hold nothing.

[C]

Yeah, right.

[A]

Which I'm so excited to dive into on the train. I got a lot of reading I got to do. But social media, is there anything specific where they can find where you're at and learn more about what it is that you do?

[C]

Thank you. It's just my site, Elena brower.com. you'll find the book there, you'll find Instagram there. It's just my name. All the social media handles are always just my name, Elena Brower. And I just want to give a shout out to Dr. G, if I could and say, Dr. G, we love you so much.

[A]

Love you so much.

[C]

Thank you for bringing us together.

[A]

Yes. It's amazing. Thank you. Thank you. By the way, you're really, you're. You're an amazing person and I'm beyond excited. I was beyond excited to have you in here, but just this episode, just, it's. It's perfect. I think we got everything out that we needed to, and I'm. I'm hoping that, you know, one takeaway. There's one takeaway that you guys have today. I'm going to be so thrilled and I want to thank, you know, our friends at the Post here, Christian Ponder. They really created this beautiful environment. It's such an honor to be here and hope everyone enjoys the episode.

[E]

The views, information or opinions expressed in the series are solely those of the individuals involved and do not necessarily represent.

[C]

Those of Chip and Joanna Gaines. By N Audio nor Magnolia.