The Hidden Horrors of Elephant Shows

Summary

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Stuff They Don't Want You To Know

Episode: The Hidden Horrors of Elephant Shows

Date: July 31, 2026

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Episode Overview

In this deeply reflective episode, Ben, Noel, Tennessee, and super producer Dylan set aside the usual fare of conspiracies and unexplained phenomena to expose the little-discussed injustices suffered by elephants, particularly in the context of elephant shows, captivity, and big-game hunting. Incorporating personal anecdotes, historical context, scientific insights, and first-hand experiences, the hosts explore the troubled and ethically complex relationships between humans and elephants—ancient, intelligent creatures with emotional depths and social lives rivaling our own.

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Key Discussion Points & Major Insights

The Majesty and Intelligence of Elephants

• Elephants are “genuine, gentle giants” (Ben, 02:42), yet their interactions with humanity are fraught.
• Brief review of elephant species: African bush (Loxodonta africana), African forest (L. cyclotis), and Asian (Elephas maximus) (Noel, 06:39).
• Ancient relationships: war elephants and even the hunt for mammoths and mastodons (02:18, 02:42).
• Elephants possess exceptional intelligence: largest land animal brain, play, empathy, social bonds, transmission of learned knowledge across generations (Ben & Noel, 11:30–12:50).

Notable Quote

“Play is actually a huge indicator of intelligence. They'll just get out there and horse around, I guess. Poor choice of words.”
— Ben (11:56)

Human-Elephant Relationships: From Reverence to Exploitation

• Elephants as helpers, symbols of power, and objects of worship in various cultures (Ben, 13:47).
• Evidence of elephant altruism: A story of an elephant refusing to harm a dog, demonstrating empathy and moral agency (Ben, 13:47).

Notable Quote

“You can't have those kind of feelings without some sort of moral compass.”
— Noel (15:02)

The "Hidden Horror" of Elephant Shows

• Modern zoos versus circuses: Atlanta Zoo cited as an example of ethical captivity for animals unable to survive in the wild (Noel, 00:59).
• Circuses and shows have long relied on elephants as a draw, often subjecting them to violence, deprivation, and unnatural environments (Ben, 23:51).
• The infamous "Crush": Cruel, systematic training that breaks elephants' spirits, beginning when they're young; includes beating, chaining, isolation (Ben, 28:05).

Notable Quote

“This process of torturing elephants is so common that it has a name. It's called the—the Crush. Yeah. Isn't that terrible?”
— Ben (29:53)

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [23:06] – Barnum & Bailey circuses, personal experiences
• [26:05] – Contemporary elephant exploitation in Asia (Thailand, Myanmar, India, Nepal)
• [27:07] – 2017 WAP study: 220 venues/3,000 elephants examined, <10% in adequate conditions

Tourism & The Ethics of Interaction

• The dark side of tourism: Well-meaning visitors drive the market for elephant rides and shows, fueling the capture and abuse of wild elephants (Noel, 26:05; Ben, 28:04).
  • Less than 200 out of 3,000 elephants observed in Asia were kept in humane conditions (Noel, 27:07).
• Tools of cruelty disguised as props: At tourist venues like Nong Nooch in Thailand, “sticks” used for posture cues conceal metal hooks, hidden by feathers, inflicted during training (Ben, 35:10, 35:53).

Notable Moment

“If you’re watching it and you don’t know what you’re looking for, you might think, ‘Oh, these are really intelligent creatures who are having fun…’ but...underneath the feathers, those things have hooks like sickles.”
— Ben (35:10)

Rehabilitation & Sanctuaries

• Sanctuaries offer ethical alternatives, focusing on rehabilitation of abused elephants and strictly controlling human interaction (Noel, 38:09).
• Lasting psychological trauma: Example of an elephant repetitively acting out trained behaviors, likely due to permanent conditioning and trauma from early abuse (Ben, 40:10).

Notable Quote

“You witnessed this firsthand...a middle-aged female elephant...every few minutes, this thing would stop...and act out a training pattern. It would bow...stamp one of its feet...bow again...It’s chilling.”
— Noel (40:10)

Big Game Hunting & The Ivory Trade

• Big-game hunting of elephants persists in select African countries (Botswana, Zimbabwe, Zambia) as a "management" tool and revenue source—controversial due to potential for abuse and questionable ethics (Noel, 46:20–48:21).
• The global ivory trade, once rampant, is now illegal in many regions, yet poaching remains a major threat (Ben, 50:29; 51:27).
• Elephant hunting “adventures” can be booked online for as little as $11,000 (Ben, 48:49).

Timestamps for Key Segments

• [46:20] – Trophy hunting, conservation rhetoric, price of elephant hunts

Elephants “Fight Back”: Retaliation and Rising Aggression

• Elephants display complex emotional responses, including retaliatory violence: up to 500 human deaths per year are attributed to elephants (Noel, 53:15).
• Story of an infamous killer elephant in Nepal with a “human death toll” reported at 25 (Ben, 54:14).
• Elephants, much like corvids and whales, exhibit memory-driven behavior and revenge—a reaction to centuries of mistreatment (Ben & Noel, 54:14–55:09).

Notable Quote

“They would also seem to understand revenge.”
— Noel (53:15)

Final Reflections: Hope, Empathy, and Responsibility

• The need for greater public awareness, legal protection, and cultural change is stressed.
• It’s noted that many poachers act out of economic necessity; true reform requires addressing demand in wealthy markets (Ben, 53:05–53:47).
• With growing understanding of elephant intelligence and emotion, the hosts urge listeners to support sanctuaries, avoid exploitative attractions, and pressure for stronger international protections.

Notable Quote

“Just, you know—hey, don’t start nothing, ain’t gonna be nothing, right? Be cool, be nice to elephants, they’ll be nice to you.”
— Noel (57:12)

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Timestamps & Segment Highlights

| Timestamp | Segment | Key Points / Notable Quotes | |-----------|---------------------------------------------------------|-------------------------------------------------------------------| | 02:42 | War elephants, ancient relationships | “They can also be very similar to...serial killers.” — Ben | | 06:39 | Elephant species overview, intelligence | “They're just so majestic and regal...” — Noel | | 13:47 | Elephant altruism story | “...the elephant refused...there was a little dog…” — Ben | | 23:06 | Circus elephants, personal childhood accounts | “Standing on those little, you know, little. Little footstool...” | | 26:05 | Modern tourist elephant shows—Asia, abuse statistics | “...only 200...were living in acceptable captive conditions.” | | 28:04 | The “Crush” explained | “They start the elephants very young...” — Ben | | 29:53 | Naming and describing “The Crush” | “Crushing their soul is what it is...” — Noel | | 35:10 | Nong Nooch, Thailand—Firsthand account | “...sticks...have hooks like sickles.” — Ben | | 38:09 | Sanctuaries and post-trauma behaviors | “A lot of these animals…cannot live in the wild anymore.” — Ben | | 40:10 | PTSD-like behaviors in elephants | “...still stuck in a training loop from their experience during the crush...” — Ben | | 46:20 | Trophy hunting and conservation rhetoric | “Big game animals implies that that's what they're there for...” | | 51:27 | Threats from the ivory trade, extinction warnings | “Elephants could be gone from the wild within as little as 25 years.” — Ben | | 53:15 | Elephant revenge and rising human fatalities | “...they mourn their dead. They would also seem to understand revenge.” — Noel | | 54:14 | Serial killer elephant “Derbate” in Nepal | “This elephant has killed 25 people.” — Ben |

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Memorable Quotes

• On the tragedy of exploitation: “The story between the human and the elephant is a story of a toxic relationship.” — Ben (15:19)
• About the “crush”: “It's crushing their soul is what it is, pretty much.” — Noel (30:16)
• About hope: “Yet the elephant does remain…one of the most amazing life forms on earth.” — Noel (56:11)
• On retaliation: “…you push and you push Ben and eventually these animals are going to push back.” — Noel (54:30)
• On animal empathy: “Their brains actually light up when they see humans that they like.” — Noel (56:11)

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Recommendations & Resources

Takeaway Guidance

• Avoid participating in elephant rides, shows, or direct interactions unless verified as ethical, sanctuary-based programs.
• Support conservation groups and sanctuaries that rehabilitate and protect elephants.
• Spread awareness about the cruelty behind the crush and the ongoing risks from ivory poaching and trophy hunting.

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Listener Engagement

The hosts invite listeners to submit thoughts, stories, and future topic requests via social media or voicemail:

• Find the show at @ConspiracyStuff or @ConspiracyStuffShow
• Call 1-833-STD-WYTK

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Summary prepared for those seeking to understand the intersection of human curiosity and cruelty through the complex, often heartbreaking saga of elephants—creatures whose intelligence and suffering demand our respect and protection.

Transcript

[Ben]

From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stuff they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartradio.

[Noel]

Hello and welcome back to the show. My name is Noel.

[Ben]

Our colleague Matt is Odd Adventures, but we' returning soon. They called me Ben. We're joined, as always, with our super producer Dylan, the Tennessee pal Fagan. Most importantly, you are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. And no, you and Tennessee and I are going to do a little bit. Something a little bit different today. We are going to talk about elephants. Now, my friend, when's the last time you saw an elephant in person?

[Noel]

Well, the elephant in the room, Ben, is that I have not seen an elephant in person in many, many years, I seem to recall. Okay, they do have elephants here at the Atlanta Zoo. And I know zoos can be a little bit ethically fraught. I do believe the Atlanta Zoo is one of the better ones and that most of the animals there would not make it in the wild because they've either been injured or some issue has led to them, you know, existing in captivity and that kind of being the best thing for them. I do remember when I was a kid, though, growing up, there was a park of kind in Germany where you could get elephant rides. And that seems problematic now, thinking back on it and knowing what we're going to talk about today.

[Ben]

Yeah. What about you, Tennessee? How familiar are you with the elephant?

[Tennessee]

I've probably seen elephants at like three different zoos, but only at zoos. Never, you know, had the privilege of traveling to see elephants in Africa or India or somewhere like that.

[Ben]

Right. Yeah, that makes sense. Those can be difficult places for a lot of us in the States to get to. Right. And you know, it part out loud. In your regular garden variety, huge American town or city, you're going to see a lot of things, but you're probably not going to see just a rando elephant, you know, waiting in line at Goldberg's Deli or something, or just roaming the streets.

[Noel]

Like here in Atlanta. You'll occasionally see, I believe there's like a horse farm not too far from the city. So you will occasionally see urban cowboys riding their, their steeds around, but not so with elephants. I do think we've both been fascinated about the history of like war eleph and some of the misreporting around what that even looked like or like war rhinoceroses as another example, Right?

[Ben]

Absolutely. And stay tuned, folks, for an upcoming episode of Ridiculous History, where our returning guest, Lauren Vogelbaum will help us explore the story of mammoths and mastodons in these United States. Once upon a time. And I love the point we're making here about elephants at the top. And they can be genuine, gentle giants. In some cases, as we'll see tonight, they can also be very similar to. Wait for it. Serial killers. Elephants have increasingly forced humanity to rethink what it means to be sapient, to be aware. And for a lot of us, for Noel and Tennessee and yours truly, elephants are something you only see in zoos or once upon a time, in circuses. But tonight, we're looking at an ongoing case of true crime. It's something that doesn't often get reported because the victims are not human. This is the hidden horror of elephant shows. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.

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[Sam J]

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[Ben]

Here are the facts. Okay, this is going to be a bit of a dark one, folks, as. As you just said there, no? So let's ease into it by talking a little bit about these noble, humble creatures, these elephants, and why we all unanimously agree that they are amazing, for sure.

[Noel]

I mean, they're just so majestic and regal, you know? I mean, it's like you just need to take a look at them to realize how incredible they are. And to your point, Ben, they are just so incredibly gentle. African bus elephants, as they're known. Luxodonta africana. We've also got the African forest elephants, L. Cyclotus, and the Asian elephant, or Alphas Maximus. Yes, indeed. Right. They're the ones that probably should be fitted up with, like, Mad Max armor and out there, you know, doing war. But no, definitely not. These are the three extant species of elephant that are recognized today. In previous evenings throughout history, these fellas had cousins, including but not limited to Mastodon, the great woolly mammoth. Both, of course, sadly extinct for now.

[Ben]

Right. But we. We just.

[Noel]

There's lots of crazy stuff going on in labs these days.

[Ben]

Right? We're actually. Full disclosure, folks. Dole, Tennessee and I are coming off the heels of a phenomenal interview with our friend Mangesh Harakator, who is exploring the science of cloning and longevity in his show Skyline Drive. And I can't stop thinking about it, man, how close humanity is to Potentially recreating the mammoth in particular. What do we do, you know, when the mammoths are back?

[Noel]

Yeah, it does become an interesting question because it does feel a little Jurassic Parkified. Right? Like, what is the function of bringing back the mammoth? Is there a place in the world for them other than like, you know, entertainment? Right, like, and I don't mean that in any dismissive way of these incredible creatures, but like, where would the, where would we put them?

[Ben]

Exactly, yeah, yeah. Where could they go? Because all species of elephants are bigger than you think. Kind of like meeting a moose in person. If you've never seen an elephant up close in person, you will be astonished by their size. These are chunky, chunky guys. The African bush elephant is the largest. Their height can go somewhere between 10 and 11ft. At their upper limit, they can, they can weigh in at 7 tons. And remember we had these conversations a few years back, weirdly serious conversations about whether we can successfully go toe to toe, one on one with a kangaroo.

[Noel]

PvP, right? PvP.

[Ben]

Yeah, but, but I think. No, you and I have concluded that if you are a human being, you have no chance against a full grown elephant unarmed.

[Noel]

What do they say, Ben, when elephants make war, it's only the grass that suffers, right? Yes, something along those lines. Yeah, man, I mean, you're gonna get squished. These guys are big boys. The name is pachyderm a catch all for elephants or is that more have more specificity than maybe remembering? Because the word itself just has that air of majesty and power, doesn't it? Pachyderm, yeah.

[Ben]

Pachyderm is sort of a group name for elephants, rhinos, hippos and tapirs.

[Noel]

Got it. I didn't know that, Ben. I did not know that the hippos were included in that. But it makes sense. They do all have a similar air of majesty and just absolute impenetrable strength.

[Ben]

Yeah, absolutely. And you know, stay on their good side. If you're, if you're looking at your average elephant, to the untrained human eye, the biggest difference you're going to see is the size. But if you know what to look for, just like differentiating between ravens and crows, you can easily discern little differences like the nature of the trunk or the arrangement of the ears.

[Noel]

Pachyderm is to elephant what corvid is to crows and ravens kind of.

[Unknown (possibly Sam J or Ari Chambers)]

Is that the vibe?

[Ben]

Oh, that's interesting. Yeah, I guess that would be similar, yeah. Because pachydermata is an obsolete order of mammals. But the term pachyderm when you hear it thrown around in English, is describing those other animals we named. So little, Little loose on the science here, folks. But we, yeah, but, but we can tell you one interesting thing is that all three of the extant elephant species can interbreed. There are proven cases of all of them creating viable offspring. And they, despite their differences and despite the fact that they're divided by geography, they have a lot more in common than they do. In contrast, and one of the biggest commonalities, the thing that still shocks humanity today, it has thousands of years, is that elephants are so crazy smart. They are so smart.

[Noel]

Yeah, they're smart and empathetic like they. They mourn, right?

[Ben]

Yes. Yeah. They also have the largest brain of any land animal. We know that they. The average elephant brain. We don't want to offend any human listeners here. Thanks for tuning in. The average elephant brain has about three times as many neurons as a human brain.

[Noel]

That's probably why they say an elephant never forgets. Ben.

[Ben]

Yeah. And like you said, Noel, they exhibit a wide range of behaviors that really challenge what we assume about humanity. They can have grief, like you said, they can have empathy. They can learn, they can mimic, they play. Play is actually a huge indicator of intelligence. They'll just get out there and horse around, I guess. Poor choice of words. They can use tools. They have self awareness, they cooperate. It's bizarre how they can also transmit knowledge across generations. They're super family oriented. They have deep personal lives, just like all of us listening tonight. I mean, we could kind of say again, if we're being loose with the science, that elephants are just like humans who happen to be way bigger than average. And they use your. They use their nose where you would use your thumb.

[Tennessee]

Correct?

[Noel]

Yeah. And the old folk tales about their phenomenal memories, as we were mentioning, are in fact based in reality, similar to how Homo sapiens or corvidi, as we mentioned. Ben, the corvid is your favorite. Or cetacea. Cetacea, I believe, can transmit knowledge generationally, like you were saying. And elephants can also do that. They are incredibly family oriented. And to your point, Ben, they do have deep personal lives. And elephants are also extremely aware of human beings. Unfortunately, as you can imagine, this is sort of because human beings kind of insist upon themselves, don't they? They sort of just turn up and make themselves pretty hard to ignore.

[Ben]

Yes. The elephant looks at the world and says, oh, wow, this is nice. And the human looks at the savannah and says, what about me?

[Noel]

How can I, how can I make this work for Me, how can I tame this majesty and, and make it turn a profit?

[Ben]

Yeah. And it should be no surprise that the elephant and the human have deeply complex, often deeply troubled relationships. It's similar to like you're saying any other case of intelligent non human animals. We see throughout cultures instances of communities worshiping the elephant. And we also see real life examples of elephant altruism for seemingly no other reason than they think something is the right thing to do. The elephant will aid humans, it'll aid other animals with no discernible benefit to itself. One of the most famous stories about this involves an elephant that was being used to place digging post or you know, place post in the ground. And it was going one by one to these posts, putting them in the ground, and then it stopped. And despite its handler, it's mahouts efforts to hit it and smack it or whatever, the elephant refused to put the next post in. They looked into the post or they looked into the post hole and they found that there was a little dog in there and the elephant was like, I'm not hurting the pooch, no way.

[Noel]

Yeah, no, you can't, you can't have those kind of feelings without some sort of like moral compass, I guess, kind of. I mean, I don't know how else to put it, but it does seem like there is an intense drive towards goodness and thinking of others. They're thoughtful creatures.

[Ben]

Thoughtful, yeah, that's the perfect word. We also know that the human has historically not been super great at reciprocating this affection. It's the story between the human and the elephant is, is a story of a toxic relationship. Obviously there are tons of humans, tons of animal rights activists to this day who have formed deep kinship with their larger brethren. But still overall, most of the relationship's history is a study in victimization and terror. So we can't blame the elephant for looking around at all these terrible things happening and saying more humans means more problems.

[Noel]

I mean, you need to look no further than the original animated Disney film Dumbo to see some of the ways in which humans are pretty awful for elephant kind.

[Ben]

Oh yeah. Humans have committed a litany of sins against elephant populations. First, they hunted the mammoth to extinction. And the ivory trade continues today. Humans did and do hunt the elephant for ivory and then also big game recreational hunting, which we'll get into in a second. And also, you know, we continually return to this point, humans don't seem to particularly care about the natural environments of most other creatures, including other humans. And because elephants are again, like you said, so cartoonishly big, they need a lot of land to roam, you know what I mean? And they kind of prefer that humans not be a huge part of that.

[Noel]

Well, I bet. I mean, it's even in the best of circumstances, these types of creatures and their habitats have always been under threat despite the best efforts of conservation groups and maybe more conservation minded lawmakers. But in the current political climate that we're in, it just seems like these. If there ever was any protection, it's just getting rolled back on the daily.

[Ben]

Oh yeah, absolutely. I mean, protection for humans is getting rolled back.

[Noel]

Yes.

[Ben]

So, yeah, what's going to happen to the elephant? We also know that historically we're using this word correctly. Humans have enslaved elephants and this is the crux of our exploration. Tonight we have to ask you folks, have you ever been to an elephant show? Not, not the one on Nickelodeon right now.

[Noel]

That's the one that always comes to mind. That's very kind and gentle. Elephant show. Not like the ones we're going to talk about after a quick word from our sponsor.

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[Ben]

Here's where it gets cr Crazy all right. Elephants, folks have been enslaved, or what you would call working animals since at least 4,000 years ago. Humans have been messing with these guys for a long, long time.

[Noel]

I know. It's got to wonder, too. It's like another one of those historical precedent kind of things where it's like, who's the first person to realize that these giant, kind of borderline terrifying creatures, if you don't know better, can be tamed and basically tricked into submitting to your will? Yeah, somebody had to. There had to have been some mishaps before, you know, they figured out how to do that quote unquote.

[Ben]

Right, right. Yeah. You know, the way I'm thinking of it, man, and this is entirely speculation on our part, is, I imagine, an innocent elephant helping an early human who was in a jam.

[Noel]

Oh, no, you're right then. And they're like, wait a minute. What if we could weaponize that? For lack of a better word. Exactly.

[Ben]

The elephant saying, this is not what we signed up for.

[Noel]

You know, we were just trying to help. What if you helped us all the time, Forever?

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

You did nothing else. Yeah.

[Ben]

And if you are a conspiracy realist of a certain age, not calling anybody out, you may remember the great circuses of old, Barnum and Bailey, for instance. That's the most famous one.

[Noel]

Well, we're of an age where I'm pretty sure not. Can't speak for you, Ben, but certainly they would have been available or come through our cities. But I absolutely went to Barnum and Bailey circuses growing up where elephants were a huge part of the show. Standing on those little, you know, little. Little footstool things and getting lightly smacked around by these little whips. It didn't seem, as a child, like, I didn't. I didn't clock that there was anything wrong. But thinking back on it, it's like they didn't want to be there. That's not cool.

[Ben]

No, exactly. Yeah. And that's a very common experience I think a lot of us have had because elephants, like you said, were historically one of the biggest draws of the most popular circuses. They're up there with tigers and the unfortunately named freak show. So you also notice as we get older, despite the great spectacle in so many people's childhoods off stage, those elephants often had horrific lives. They're tortured into performing these tricks. Like you said, they're getting whipped. They have to live in tiny, unnatural environments. A lot of them get forced to breed. They're worked to death, and then they are discarded when they're no Longer of use. This was pretty prevalent all the way up until like 2016 in the United States for sure.

[Noel]

And as we already mentioned, the major US circuses, including the quite mouthful, tough to say, Ringling Brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus, they were, they were doing this. I mean, it was a major part of their show, a big draw like you said. And I definitely went to a couple of those not realizing how kind of gross what I was seeing was until I grew up a little bit and realized some of the context around what we're talking about today. Thankfully, these operations did stop using elephants in May of 2016, largely driven by public pressure and local laws, which made it difficult for them to being a touring operation, you know, be able to do this in different locations. However, there are still elephant shows in smaller US venues like local fairs and of course in other countries. We do not want to cast aspersions on any of the ethics of the handlers that are maybe doing a fine job and treating these creatures as equals. And they often, as you can imagine, form deep and complex relationships with their animal friends. And you know, oftentimes, like I was mentioning about the Atlanta Zoo, there are situations where these creatures might be of the kind that couldn't flourish in the wild.

[Ben]

Yeah, that's a huge part of it. And that's a great point. With that caveat, we have to realize that not every elephant handler or mahout is ethical. There are a lot of countries that are still hotbeds for elephant abuse. Thailand, Myanmar, India, Nepal. Because, you know, you're a tourist, right? You're on a once in a lifetime trip across the world. You want a picture of you riding an elephant or washing one or you know, like patent its trunk. I have a few pictures of stuff like that. But if you go to a 2017 study by the World Animal Protection Organization or WAP, what you find is that this well intentioned, seemingly harmless tourism has fueled a rise in elephants being abducted from the wild and kept for entertainment. The BBC had a great write up of this and you can also read the study online.

[Noel]

That's right. And they summarize the issue this way, saying that after inspecting 220 venues and 3,000 elephants, it was found that only 200 of them were living in acceptable captive conditions. These were where there was no direct interaction with people, no rides, no washing of the elephants and no circus tricks. So that was definitely the exception to the rule given the, the, you know, stats there. And you know, it may be that several of us are in, in the Audience may have seen some of these shows outside of the circus of it all, perhaps while traveling abroad, Perhaps something you just sort of stumbled upon. It would not be beyond the realm of possibility for that to be the case. You know, even if you didn't seek this thing out. They are pretty prevalent in some of the countries that you mentioned earlier, Ben.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah, yeah. Where the elephant population has naturally been right. For thousands. For sure.

[Noel]

For sure.

[Ben]

Yeah. We know. In 2020, World Animal Production released yet another expose about the training process that you were mentioning there earlier, Noel. This is traumatization. It's torture. It is indoctrination, and we could use that word correctly, because they start the elephants very young. They want to make them submissive enough to interact with tourists, to give people rides, to perform those tricks. And this investigation, it found that young elephants are forcibly separated from their mothers. They're tied to these different wooden strictures. They're beaten over and over again. They're forced to walk in chains. They're hobbled to teach them the right cadence of walking.

[Noel]

A lot of that is depicted in Dumbo. That is a lot of my experience of what you're talking about, Ben. And it's portrayed horrifically as not. Not, not cool. So props to, you know, the Walt Disney Company for kind of. I don't know. I mean, I truly do think it's a bit of an act of. Of empathy and trying to shed light on some of this stuff in a children's animated film. That's a particularly heavy one, Ben. Yeah, right.

[Ben]

Yeah. That's one of those ones. You and I have talked about this. I think it was off air. That's one of those Disney movies where you and I are pretty certain it wouldn't be made today.

[Noel]

No, I mean, and I did not see the. The Tim Burton remake. I can't imag. They leaned as hard into some of that really, really traumatic imagery. But I heard it wasn't very good.

[Ben]

I haven't seen it. I'm equally not super excited to learn that there's a new reboot of the Ebenezer Scrooge story coming out.

[Noel]

Yeah. Starring Johnny Depp.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

Get him back in the fold, I guess.

[Ben]

So this process of torturing elephants is so common that it has a name. It's called the. The Crush. Yeah. Isn't that terrible? We've gotta. We've gotta think about this because, you know, we are all amazed by the depths of elephant intelligence. I think we can say the Crush is pretty similar to abusing a human child.

[Noel]

It's Crushing their soul is what it is, pretty much. Yeah. Their will to live, I mean, or their will to live as individuals, you know, it just like. Yeah, it's submission is what it is. And yes, absolutely. I see what you're saying in terms of that parallel between, you know, child abuse because of just the degree of sentience that these animals exhibit.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And we, we encounter two extremely different examples of human elephant relationships in Thailand earlier this year, I think you remember, I was very excited. You and Tennessee and Nat. All, all of us were texting about a very weird place I happened across called Nong Nuch. Do you remember those pictures, man?

[Noel]

I do. And I just. I remember you had two very distinctly different experiences. And one of them, you know, really did a number on you. I know you weren't feeling particularly good about it, but Nung Nooch was not that one, right?

[Ben]

Oh, yeah, this is the, this is the very, very. Well, they're both very disturbing, but Nong Nooch is like. You remember. Well, we've all been to amusement parks, but do you remember Rock City?

[Noel]

See it supposed to. Yeah, See Rock City.

[Fred Armisen]

Sorry.

[Noel]

If anyone's not from the region here in Atlanta, it's a tourist trap. Kind of a roadside attraction, I guess

[Tennessee]

you could call it.

[Noel]

On a certain route, traveling the interstates here around Atlanta, you will see signs for sea Rock City. I have not had the pleasure, although I did just stop by Buc Ees, which is its own kind of roadside attraction. Rock City, I believe has like, like gnomes and stuff and like a magical woodland kind of garden experience. Right.

[Ben]

It's so. It is so close in the dark. Yes, close in the dark. It is just. It's just up in Chattanooga. So it's a day trip. If you ever want to do something weird on the weekend. We had a little group of co workers who went there a while back in Tennessee. We gotta hear your take. How would you describe Rock City to someone who's not familiar with it?

[Tennessee]

It's a must see is how I would describe it.

[Noel]

See it for yourself.

[Tennessee]

Yeah, there's. There's two. There's two very different experiences. You, you walk through a rock path where you can see, they say seven states at the end where there's a little waterfall. But then to get out of the park, you have to go through a blacklight tunnel filled with kind of scary dioramas of fairy tales. And they don't really warn you about that at the beginning, but yeah, I love it. And I have one of them birdhouses. There's that's another thing that you can buy. Sea Rock City Birdhouse.

[Noel]

I feel so left out. I can't wait to check it out. I gotta. I gotta do it. Is it something you can get to, like maybe on the way to Nashville?

[Ben]

Yeah, like if you're driving up to

[Tennessee]

chattanooga, that's where 75 and 40 split.

[Carrie Brownstein]

So.

[Tennessee]

Yeah, there you go.

[Ben]

Yeah, perfect.

[Sam J]

Yeah.

[Ben]

And then you can also. While you're there. We're not part of the tourism board, but while you're there, why not check out Ruby Falls and Lookout Mountain?

[Noel]

We've done our bit and I have been to Chattanooga in the last handful of years, and that's also a lovely town. A really, really beautiful place worth visiting. There's a really good place called Aretha. Frankenstein's. Really good pancakes. Yeah, very good.

[Ben]

Yeah. Don't eat the day before if you go to Arethas, but let us know when you're going. Noel, let's make a road trip a. It'll be fun. And Ed, Dylan, you were right to ward Noel about that subterranean exit path through Rock City. I've never.

[Noel]

Where the Chuds live.

[Ben]

I've. Dude, I've never. I've been many times and have never been there without seeing at least one child freaked out by the glowing.

[Noel]

By the Chud. Okay, got it. Got it.

[Ben]

Yeah. Okay, so we're mentioning Rock City because we love it and we can't wait to go as a group. But we're also mentioning it because everything you've heard about Rock City times 10 times 10,000, that is nongnuch. It's so wild. It's essentially. It's a sprawling complex, hundreds and hundreds of acres of whatever interested the founder, a Thai billionaire at the time. So you'll see all these recreation sculptures with no rhyme or reason. There's a sick car museum and right next to it there are recreations of the pyramids in Egypt. There's a weird propaganda heavy theater show. And then of course, there are elephants.

[Jake Stauch]

Yeah.

[Noel]

No, Ben, I'm sorry, I think I misunderstood, but this was. There were some fascinating and kind of, you know, kooky facets of this visit. But once you got to the elephant show of it all, it did kind of of turn dark.

[Ben]

Dude. Yeah, because if you. If you're watching it and you don't know what you're looking for, you might think, oh, these are really intelligent creatures who are having fun with their human friends. But the handlers who got in big trouble in 2019, they are wielding these. These stick looking things that have a couple of Feathers at the end. And it looks like they're just tapping the elephant when they want it to, to, you know, lift the leg or bend down and let somebody hop on it. But underneath the feathers, those things have hooks like sickles. And so during the crush, during the training process, they're attacking the elephants with this at a very young age to program those movements.

[Noel]

Okay, so they're digging into their flesh with this, but the flesh is so. Or their hides are so tough that it's not like you're seeing wounds or anything, but it's definitely painful and. And unpleasant at the very least, right?

[Ben]

Yeah. 100% man. And the gardens Nongnuch, they have always disputed the idea that they're mistreating those elephants. Animal rights activists decry this practice, but nothing's really been done because Nongnuch is a very popular tourist attraction, and the management is very well connected with the government and the royal family because Thailand is still a monarchy where technically you can get arrested for talking trash about the king. So if you. If you're friends with the king, it's very easy to get away with doing whatever you want, for sure.

[Noel]

However, you know, we have seen things that tourists have shared. Right. In 2019, for example, controversy really kind of hit when a tourist uploaded images that suggested to some of the mistreatment of the elephants that you're talking about. This is an accusation that the garden, like you said, has disputed. But we can attest, at least you can attest, Ben, firsthand, that the elephants in question did seem heavily trained. These handlers or mahouts wield those sticks like you said, Ben. They can make them play soccer and carry visitors around on their shoulders and all of that stuff. So in. In sharp contrast to that, Ben, far to the north of the country, you can find the antithesis to this in the form of elephant sanctuaries that are run by conservationists to protect these creatures and allow them to live together in harmony with what you might refer less as handlers, Ben, as you point out in the outline, and more like tenders. And this would be a much more harmonious a situation. They don't make them do tricks. All the contact is regulated. In fact, only a very small number of elephants interact with visitors to the sanctuaries at all. I mean, you can take a picture of them, but it is all kind of at the comfort level of the animals themselves. That is highly guarded.

[Ben]

Yeah, you nailed it. It's exactly what you were describing with other conservation efforts. A lot of these animals, simply to earlier point null, cannot live in the wild anymore.

[Yamaneika]

Right.

[Ben]

Because they have been physically abused or they have been harshly mentally abused to point out, too.

[Noel]

I mean, like, the wild is harsh. I mean, these animals will be excommunicated, for lack of a better term, from their groups. And given that, you know, that these animals are pack animals, they would be essentially left to die. Right?

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

Or even like bullied to the point of potentially death.

[Ben]

Right, yeah, yeah. And that's such an important point, Noel, because the wild is. The wild creatures live and die. Right. It's a very brutal environment. So these elephants, at least in some of the conservation places we visited, are. They're well taken care of, but you still see that shadow of exploitation. A lot of these were orphaned when their parents were killed or they were rescued from slavery at, like, timber camps in Myanmar. There was one we saw whose front left forelimb was broken because it was enslaved at a timber operation in Myanmar. You could see scars around its neck where it had been chained up for years. Its leg never healed correctly. So it has to hobble. And keep in mind, folks, this thing weighs tons and tons. It has to hobble on its broken leg around the. Around its sanctuary because the best veterinarians in the country can't fix its leg. It's just stuck like that for the rest of its life. And these things live a very long time, for sure.

[Noel]

Ben, and you should speak to this. I mean, you witnessed this firsthand. The, this, this scene that you observed, I believe, you know, really, really got under your skin.

[Ben]

Yeah. Yes, sir. We saw there a middle aged female elephant that looked like, you know, you, you and I have seen clips of humans who have been indoctrinated in a cult or like deprogramming stuff where you try to bring somebody back from brainwashing.

[Noel]

It's chilling. Yes.

[Ben]

Yeah. We saw what I suspect to be that with an elephant, this elephant is still stuck in a training loop from their experience during the crush that torture training program. So this elephant would wander around aimlessly and like you were describing, it has trouble interacting with peers, other elephants in the herd. And every few minutes, this thing would stop for seemingly no reason and it would act out a training pattern. It would bow. I remember it specifically. It would bow a number of times. It would stamp one of its feet, counting out something. It would bow again and then would turn around. It would wander somewhere else, and then it would do the same process.

[Noel]

Well, and that speaks to how aggressively beaten into this creature those routines must have been.

[Ben]

Yeah.

[Noel]

For it to manifest itself like that, like unprompted I mean, you're basically seeing a creature that has, for lack of a better way of putting it, lost its mind.

[Ben]

Absolutely. Yeah. And I hate how correct that is, but you're absolutely right. We know that there are vast differences between these two encounters. But if you're going to be on the safe side, it's best to assume that unless a place is like you were saying, all specifically in elephant sanctuary, you have to realize the elephants in the show are probably not being treated in an ethical way. That's the elephant show part. But there's more for us to get to. So let's say we take a break and then we get to another thing that's going to be very familiar to a lot of us in the audience. The idea of hunting.

[Ari Chambers]

What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers.

[Sam J]

Hey, what's up, y'?

[Unknown (possibly Sam J or Ari Chambers)]

All?

[Sam J]

It's your girl, Sam, Jenny.

[Ari Chambers]

And we're the host of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from Together and I heart women's sports because, let's

[Sam J]

be real, women's sports is giving us way too much to talk about these days.

[Ari Chambers]

So Kelsey Finler, she became the first female solo rower to go from California to Hawaii.

[Sam J]

My first thought is like, what's up with the snacks?

[Noel]

Like, what are we eating?

[Ari Chambers]

The highlights, the rivalries, the breakout stars, the moments that take over your entire

[Sam J]

timeline and, and the conversations that start during the game and somehow keep going all week. Every week, we're breaking down the biggest stories across women's sports.

[Ari Chambers]

Naomi Osaka showing out. She beat Sabalenka.

[Sam J]

Shout outs to you, Naomi.

[Ari Chambers]

You get the palm. Naomi, you get the palm for that.

[Sam J]

Because we're not just interested in what happened, we're interested in why everyone's talking about it. Because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's Sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Charlie Brinkhurst-Cuff]

In 2015, teenager Joy Morgan discovered strangely compelling YouTube sermons from the religious group Israel United in Christ, or iuic. Her initial curiosity developed into devotion. She distanced herself from friends and family, embraced new identity, immersed herself in the IUIC and believed she'd found the truth.

[Noel]

IUIC is the best family that I've ever had.

[Charlie Brinkhurst-Cuff]

In fact, she had found what many called a cult. And On Boxing Day 2018, joy disappeared forever. In the new six part investigative podcast, the Missing Sister, Charlie Brinkhurst, Cuff and Freeturn explored Joy's story, the family she left, and the religious group she found.

[Unknown (possibly Sam J or Ari Chambers)]

You know, when you get that feeling like you just. I don't want to be here. I want to get out. I kind of want to go home now.

[Charlie Brinkhurst-Cuff]

It's a story about truth lies, a young woman yearning to belong, and a family still waiting for answers. All episodes available now. To binge listen to the missing sister on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Nora Jones]

Hey, I'm Nora Jones, and I love playing music with people so much that my podcast called Playing along is back. I sit down with musicians from all musical styles to play songs together in an intimate setting. Every episode's a little different, but it all involves music and conversation with some of my favorite, favorite musicians. Over the past two seasons, I've had special guests like Dave Grohl, Leve Mavis Staples, Remy Wolf, Jeff Tweedy. Really too many to name. And this season I've sat down with Joshua Homme, Sarah McLachlan, John Legend, and more. Check out my new episode with Finneas.

[Tennessee]

So I went home and I asked

[Ben]

Billie if she wanted to sing it. She immediately made it her own thing. You really know how to make me

[Noel]

cry when you give me those oceans.

[Nora Jones]

So come hang out with us in the studio and listen to Playing along on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mangesha]

I'm Mangesha together and I'm back with a new season of the podcast Skyline Drive. This time I'm diving into a rabbit hole of peptides, organoids, blood boys, blue zones, and brain replacement to try to understand what this longevity obsession is all about and what it really means to live forever for all of us. I learned about some rad science.

[Noel]

I can make a brain for you.

[Nora Jones]

And then we can test what drug

[Noel]

is the best for your brain as opposed to his brain.

[Mangesha]

Here are some hard truths.

[Charlie Brinkhurst-Cuff]

They would expect Indians to age faster, but I did not expect it to

[Ben]

be almost a four to five year

[Mangesha]

acceleration and get myself into a world of trouble.

[Ben]

I'd say probably start bone smashing.

[Ari Chambers]

That doesn't work.

[Noel]

Make it look more defined.

[Nora Jones]

They say it works.

[Sam J]

I don't know.

[Mangesha]

Listen to Skyline Drive how to live Forever on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Noel]

And we're back. And we're talking, of course, about the other elephant in the room. Man, you gotta do it. I mean, that's what it is. Which is big game hunting. You know, we've seen images of folks like, what is it, Jimmy John.

[Ben]

Oh, yeah, magnates. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Noel]

You know, posing with these, you know, know, corpses of, of these, you know, large game animals. That's the. I don't like using that term because game animals implies that that's what they're there for. You know, that's, I don't, I don't like that one bit. And of course that, you know, the Trump sons have been, you know, known to do that kind of thing and images exist of them as well, posing with their prey. Elephants in particular is, is even, I don't know, elephants in particular have a just very incredibly heartbreaking story when it comes to their role in this industry. Let's just be call it what it is. The issue of elephant abuse does take on a different form, especially in the African continent where elephant hunting is permitted in select sub Saharan African countries such as Botswana, Zimbabwe and Zambia. It is regulated wildlife management and conservation funding tool. Sort of like having a hunting license here in the States. There are seasons. It is of course justified by maintaining population and not having certain species populations explode to the point of it causing encroachment upon habitat for other animals. And I imagine that in parts of Africa, the elephants can also cause some real problems. Right. We've heard stories, stories about elephants trampling crops and things like that. So I do understand the rationale of this as a, as a wildlife management tool, but there are still some aspects of it that make it tough to stomach.

[Ben]

We also have to ask how much of that, how much of that positive messaging is just PR spin, Like, hey, we know we're letting you play Hitman on these innocent creatures, but it goes to a good cause.

[Noel]

But remember though, we've definitely heard stories of like, you know, villages that are being, they're having their food supply threatened by rogue elephants. That kind of 100%, it is a thing, I'm just saying.

[Ben]

Very much a thing. Yes, yes, sir. And that's, that's a great point. We know that regardless of where you fall on the, the hunting aspect of that elephants in general, you can go to websites like bookyourhunt.com and you'll see their starting price to kill an elephant is a little bit less than US$11,000. That is chump change to a lot of wealthy people, to the Jimmy John's guy, you know, for sure, Ben, and

[Noel]

it's like, you know, I understand the tourist draw of things like safaris. Right, yeah, that makes sense. And it doesn't feel like that's as, you know, not, of course, not nearly as invasive as allowing the animals to be killed, but I would say, you know, go for one of those, maybe just take a look. You don't have to. To murder them, to experience them. However, you know, it reminds me too, there are examples here in the states of kind of dirty pool when it comes to game hunting where they'll have these pens where the animals are, like, bred to be killed and released in these, like, literal kind of pens. Or you can just like fish in a barrel, right? And it's like, I think that's the case with some of these. And I'm not even saying, like, give them a sporting chance that makes it better. I mean, hunting is. Is a fraught issue. And of course, we know that hunting is a far as a way of life for many indigenous, you know, communities and has been historically. There is, of course, the idea of really, truly using every part of the animal and relying on it for sustenance. It just seems like in this day and age, it feels a little bit more like a weird flex.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah. Because especially, right. These people are not defending themselves from an elephant attack. They're paying a premium for a very strange vacation that features a massacre. And then, you know, that again, that is legal. That's a legal thing you can do in several of these countries. Another issue, as we know, is the ivory trade, which is very much illegal. It's one of the greatest threats to the survival of elephants. And if you go to different activist sources, they're going to say, they're going to tell you that thousands of elephants, especially on the African continent, die every year. The entirety of the body, to your earlier point, is not used. They're killing them for ivory. This is a poaching epidemic. It continues today. I read one guy named Hugh Fernley Wittenstall, which just is an amazing name.

[Sam J]

It's a good one.

[Noel]

Yeah, it's a good one. Very good hyphenate. Fernley Wittenstall, by the way, is a hyphenate.

[Ben]

Yeah. Yes, yes, sir. This researcher and others who agree with them say that if the ivory trade continues unabated, elephants could be gone from the wild within as little as 25 years. So within your lifetime as you're watching this show.

[Noel]

And to step it back again, it is illegal.

[Unknown (possibly Sam J or Ari Chambers)]

Right?

[Noel]

These are poachers that are doing this.

[Dylan]

Yes.

[Ben]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Noel]

So, I mean, think about how, you know, the mastodon became extinct. It was because there wasn't any measure in place. Right. So even with measures in place, the illegal sort of black market trade still enough to potentially wipe out these creatures in as little as 25 years.

[Jake Brennan]

Yeah.

[Ben]

There's huge economic inequality involved because a lot of these, the buyer markets are from more wealthy countries and the suppliers, a lot of those folks are. If we exercise empathy, just like the elephants would want us to, a lot of those folks who are poaching are doing it because they have to survive. They don't feel they have any other option. So you have to cut it off at the wealthy countries, at the destination countries. In 2016, the US almost entirely banned the ivory trade. Singapore and Hong Kong followed because a big demand for ivory came from Asia. People wanted it for status, for decoration. There were talks of folk medicine. But there's something else. There's a bit of a twist here, folks.

[Noel]

This part is wild.

[Ben]

Yeah, this is wild, right? You may not have heard this, but Noel, can you tell us a little bit about whether or not elephants hunt back?

[Noel]

Well, that's the thing, Ben. I mean, think about the whole memory aspect that we keep talking about. Like the way crows will hold a grudge, you know, and, and, and come at you, you know, weeks later and remember that you wronged them in some way. Well, such is the case for elephants as well. And I think maybe when I was mentioning the idea of these elephants sort of trampling crops and in these, these smaller communities, I just don't, I don't know that that necessarily would even happen as much. They'd probably stick to their own areas if, if it weren't for this human intervention that is causing them to lash out and kind of go rogue or almost exhibit this dark side of that intelligence. They certainly don't hunt humans for food, but they are elephants responsible for around 100 to 500 humans deaths every year. And just like humans, elephants do seem, as we said, they mourn their, their dead. They would also seem to understand revenge.

[Ben]

Yeah, We've got two quick examples for you. There's the case of infamous killer elephant. Remember we mentioned serial killers located in Nepal. This elephant is named Derbate D H U R B E It's like what

[Noel]

whales are doing now. There's this whole epidemic of whales attacking ships. I mean, I mean you push and you push Ben and eventually these animals are going to push back.

[Ben]

Yeah. You hang out at a barber shop long enough, you get a haircut. That's right. And Derby has a human death toll that was just reported earlier this month to be up to 25. This elephant has killed 25 people. And then if you go to the nearby country of India, you see a story of a herd of elephants that trampled a 68 year old woman and Then returned during her funeral and attacked her dead body again.

[Noel]

That is dark. And just like the rise, like I mentioned, of orca attacks on boats, these elephant attacks are increasing as human encroachment further invades the elephants already dwindling natural habitats. And so you're doesn't seem like it's going anywhere. You're probably going to see more of these types of, types of conflicts before

[Ben]

you see less, dude, that's the question, right? Now that we know all this, we're asking what can we do to help? Not everybody is a billionaire from Thailand. Not everybody is a well connected son of the president or something. I mean, honestly, we've been talking about this quite a while now. These days most normal people are doing their best just to keep their own household going. So it can be. Offensive's not the right word, but something like offensive it can be to go to people who are struggling to survive and say, hey, give more money to these animals that you're never going to meet in person for sure.

[Noel]

Yet the elephant does remain one of. I think we're all on the same page about this most amazing life forms on earth. They have this, this deep ability to feel emotion, to remember the past, to take care of their loved ones, to mourn their passing. Studies even show that their brains actually light up when they see humans that they like. So they can form interspecies bonds. You know, just like how a human brain might recognize like a real cute puppy. So it does appear that under the best of circumstances, elephants dig us and they think we're kind of cute.

[Ben]

Yeah, that's the, that's something that still needs to be studied more because even though we know elephants are super intelligent, we gotta be careful not to anthropomorphize them too much. So we will hear people who say elephants thinking humans are cute is just a myth. But I think it's nice, man. I think it's a nice way to think.

[Noel]

It's a nice way to wrap up the episode too. There's hope, guys. Just, you know, hey, don't start nothing. Ain't gonna be nothing, right? Be cool, be nice to Alpha, they'll be nice to you.

[Ben]

Exactly. Yes. Well said there, Mr. Brown. We know this episode again is a little bit of a weird one for us. Maybe not our usual remit, but it's worth the exploration. So thank you for tuning in, fellow conspiracy realists. We wanna know what you think of the future of the elephant. And also let us know if you wanna hear more explorations of other wild animals. Their relationships with humans and the fascinating continuing investigation into non human intelligence. We have folks, we have so many random animal facts. We have like too many random animal facts. They're just waiting for you to reach out. What's the best way to find us?

[Noel]

Oh, gosh, there's a handful of ways you can find us all over the Internet on your social media platform of choice. Just look for the handles Conspiracy stuff or conspiracy stuff show and we'll post pop right up. You can also, of course, give us a telephone call by dialing 1-833-STD-W Y T K. You got five minutes to leave a voicemail of the sound of Ben's dulcet tones. Give yourself a cool nickname and let us know that we can use your voicemail on our weekly listener mail episode and you just might hear yourself and us chatting about what you had to say.

[Ben]

And if you'd like to send us an email, you can do so. 24 hours an evening, seven nights a week. We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void writes back. We'll see you out here in the dark conspiracy. Diehardradio.com. Stuff they Don't Want yout to Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Carrie Brownstein]

Hey, Portlandia fans, Carrie Brownstein and Fred

[Fred Armisen]

Armisen here the dream of the 90s is alive.

[Carrie Brownstein]

In podcast forum, we're launching Podlandia AO Rewatch our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together, breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made.

[Fred Armisen]

And we'll also be joined by the people who helped bring it all to life. Guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.

[Carrie Brownstein]

Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised not just words, but a song about.

[Ben]

Well, I thought you were all going

[Chelsea Handler]

to write a song.

[Carrie Brownstein]

I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia Aao Rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Ari Chambers]

What's up, fam? I'm sports journalist Ari Chambers.

[Sam J]

Hey, what's up, y'?

[Unknown (possibly Sam J or Ari Chambers)]

All?

[Sam J]

It's your girl, Sam J.

[Ari Chambers]

And we're the host of Everyone Watches Women's Sports, a new podcast from Together and I heart Women's sports.

[Sam J]

We're breaking down the biggest headlines Naomi

[Ari Chambers]

Osaka showing out shout outs to you, Naomi. The Viral moments I've been obsessed with

[Sam J]

Chrisean Rock's boxing journey. She looks good, her combos are swift.

[Ari Chambers]

And the stories everyone's talking about across

[Sam J]

women's sports because everyone watches women's sports. Listen to everyone watches women's sports on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jake Brennan]

I'm Jake Brennan and on the Disgraceland podcast I explore the wild lies of rock stars and unbelievable true crime stories from music history. These are the stories you haven't heard. The kind and you'll end up telling someone else. Like the time Paul McCartney spent in a notorious prison. Or the bizarre crime Lady Gaga is accused of. Or that time Blondie's Debbie Harry escaped Ted Bundy. Listen to Disgraceland on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Chelsea Handler]

This is Chelsea Handler from Dear Chelsea. Every week the news gets worse, the world gets crazier, and Yamanika is here to tell whoever's ready responsible, you're the problem.

[Yamaneika]

Do you know I just found out who Sydney Sweeney was? If he got a bunch of women, then I should have a bunch of men do better or do less so I don't have to do so much. I'm Yamaneika and I'm out. Listen to youo're the Problem With Yamaneka on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Noel]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Nora Jones]

Guaranteed Human.