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- [00:00]
Ben
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:05]
Noel
Hey everybody. It's the guys from Stuff they don't want you to know. And before we continue with the podcast, we'd really love it if you'd do us a solid and fill out these 37 forms about your listening history.
- [00:16]
Mangesh Hadakutur
We'll wait. Just kidding. That would be ridiculous. Yet we do it every time we need healthcare.
- [00:24]
Ben
Yeah, it's bonkers. However, there's good news. The new Amazon Health AI is different. It can connect your symptoms with your medical medical history to offer personalized care 24 hours a day, seven days a week.
- [00:37]
Noel
Amazon Health AI is here.
- [00:39]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Healthcare just got less painful.
- [00:42]
Ben
This is Matt Altmix from How to Money and we are all about comparing prices to save money on so many things in life. So why wouldn't you compare prices for your next ride share? Taking a few seconds to check Lyft can save you real money on your next ride. And I did this last time. I caught a ride home from the airport after some travel. And guess who came out on top of Lyft. So don't just price check with flights and phone planes and your groceries. Comparing rideshare prices will help you to save money every time you ride. Save money. Check Lyft. On Raiders of the Lost podcast, we explore cinema like no one else, including huge interviews with stars like Ryan Gosling
- [01:20]
Mangesh Hadakutur
on Project Hail Mary.
- [01:22]
Ben
It was like the Jaws shark didn't always work, came with its own problems. That's what made it great. The cast of Obsession on set, there was so much magic happening with each scene. We were putting together deep dives into classics like 2001 A Space Odyssey or Fight Club, plus weekly episodes on all industry news. Listen to Raiders of the Lost podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And for more, follow aidersofthelostpodcast and ICTOK
- [01:52]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Podcast Network on TikTok.
- [01:55]
Ben
Hey Portlandia fans, Kerry Brownstein and Fred Armisen here.
- [01:58]
Noel
The dream of the 90s is alive in podcast form.
- [02:01]
Mangesh Hadakutur
We're launching Podlandia AO Rewatch our brand new podcast where we revisit every episode of Portlandia together, breaking down sketches, going deep on our iconic characters, and pulling back the curtain on how it all got made. And we'll also be joined by the
- [02:14]
Noel
people who helped bring it all to life, guest stars, collaborators and friends, including director Jonathan Krisel, the mayor himself, Kyle McLaughlin, legendary musician Amy Mann, and many more.
- [02:25]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Kyle is going for it. Here you fully improvised, not just words, but a song about.
- [02:30]
Ben
Well, I thought you were all going to write a song.
- [02:32]
Mangesh Hadakutur
I remember you thinking that. Listen to Podlandia AO rewatch on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [02:42]
Ben
From UFOs to psychic powers and government conspiracies, history is riddled with unexplained events. You can turn back now or learn the stu they don't want you to know. A production of iHeartradio.
- [03:09]
Noel
Hello and welcome back to the show. My name is Noel.
- [03:12]
Ben
Our pal Matt is on adventures and will be returning soon. They call me Ben. We're joined, as always, with our super producer, Dylan, the Tennessee pal Fig. And most importantly, you are you. You are here. That makes this the stuff they don't want you to know. Ed. Noel. I know we've been talking a lot about some classic rock stuff in previous episodes. So riddle me this. Who wants to live forever?
- [03:38]
Noel
It's. It's the other Noel. The lesser known Noel. Noel Gallagher of the Gallagher brothers fame. No, he's way more famous than me. You and I is. Who wants to live forever? And we're going to. We don't just want to. We're going to.
- [03:52]
Ben
Yeah. We're gonna manifest it. Dude, this is a question for the ages. Over the past few millennia, just what's a couple thousand years between friends? Civilization has tried all. Dude, all sorts of stuff to stave off mortality. And in. In recent decades, as you and Matt and Tennessee and I have discussed in previous episodes, science has made some extraordinary and terrifying breakthroughs into what we call longevity studies.
- [04:21]
Noel
Man, did I tell you I finally got a blood boy?
- [04:23]
Ben
Oh, no.
- [04:24]
Noel
He just around. We're just connected intravenously. I'm just kind of siphoning off his life force, his youthful energy and. I feel like a million bucks. Never felt better.
- [04:33]
Ben
That's. Yeah. Okay. Are you going to put him in frame? His name is a later episode. His name's Steve.
- [04:40]
Noel
Okay.
- [04:41]
Ben
I mean that's.
- [04:42]
Noel
No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no. I can't have people know too much about Steve.
- [04:46]
Ben
Okay. Yeah.
- [04:47]
Noel
Keep it secret over here though.
- [04:49]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Hey, Steve. Hey, Steve.
- [04:50]
Ben
So we know that new medicine, new treatments are all over the horizon, especially for investors. We know about organ transplants and cloning, the kind of stuff that makes you really question what it means to be human. Luckily, we are not diving into tonight's topic alone. We are thrilled, friends and neighbors, to be joined by one of our old dear friends. He's not old. We've just known each other for a while. The award winning co founder of KALEIDOSCOPE and among many other things, the creator of the hit podcast Skyline how to Live Forever, Mangesh Hadakutur. Thank you for joining us.
- [05:31]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Dude, I am so thrilled. I love that we get to hang out on camera because we haven't been able to do it in person in a while and I miss you guys going to be.
- [05:43]
Noel
And speaking of on camera, what kind of life extension technology are you tapped into? Man, you look great. I'm suspicious.
- [05:50]
Mangesh Hadakutur
The filter, I think that is.
- [05:52]
Noel
That must be it. That's. That's about what most of us can afford, to be honest.
- [05:58]
Ben
So, Mangesh, is it okay if we call you Mango on this one? Of course.
- [06:01]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Are you kidding? We're friends. You don't have to hide that for the audience.
- [06:07]
Noel
Okay, so don't you go calling him that. That's only for his close personal friends like us.
- [06:13]
Ben
We had to earn it. So. You have done so much stuff. A quick peek behind the curtain. We knew Noel, Matt and myself, we knew a lot about your work before we ever met in person. There was a very awkward moment you and I had when we started working together and, and I showed you. What are your books? Mental Floss. And you asked, you were so polite and impersonable. You said, ben, do you want. Do you want us to sign this book? And then I revealed that you had already signed it and I sort of walked away backwards because I didn't know what to do.
- [06:52]
Noel
Ah, yes, the Homer Simpson bush mood. Love it.
- [06:56]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Yeah, just so I don't think I would have offered to sign it. I think Will is very happy to sign anything that's put in front of him.
- [07:04]
Noel
That's very true, but I was probably standing right. He's also. Yeah, now he's. Now he's signing big contracts and making billion dollar deals with TikTok and stuff. As we know, our buddy Pearson, we
- [07:15]
Mangesh Hadakutur
did this when we first started like Metal plus. We made this like, little video of like, like just how our personalities had blossomed. And, and, and we did this thing where like, someone was pulling over to ask for directions. And this is so long ago that people had maps and like they showed this map to Will and he's like, of course. And he just signs it and heads it back to them.
- [07:34]
Noel
Incredible. Incredible. We love that dude too. And he, of course was your partner in Mental Floss. And y' all work together on part time. Genius. Still from time to time. And we love it when new episodes of that drop. Mango, you and I worked together back in the day on one of our Very first true crime shows that we worked on together, Happy Face. And, you know, you've moved on to do amazing things with your company, Kaleidoscope. And that is.
- [07:57]
Mangesh Hadakutur
No, no, I've got to say. Just. I mean, like, I'm sure people know this, but, like, you're just an insane and so talent musician. And.
- [08:06]
Noel
And.
- [08:06]
Mangesh Hadakutur
And the soundtrack for Happy Face, like, we talked about it together, like, it's so crazy that this is an audio medium and. And there's so little actual music in it. Like, so much of it is stock and stuff like that. And you'd already been playing in this with.
- [08:21]
Noel
With.
- [08:21]
Mangesh Hadakutur
With previous stuff at how stuff works. But, like, we made such a rich soundtrack for that, and it was really you for that set the tone of that show.
- [08:31]
Noel
And.
- [08:32]
Mangesh Hadakutur
And people were asking if they could buy it. I mean, it was incredible, right?
- [08:35]
Noel
And it was these lovely musicians from Athens called Hope for a Golden Summer that were sisters who I had known from when I lived there back in the day. And it was just. The fit was perfect. And, yeah, I do wish it was available, but I'm really proud of those folks for the work that they did.
- [08:50]
Mangesh Hadakutur
It was lush and gorgeous. And when I did my first season of Skyline, that's what I was thinking was, what are the influences that I had growing up? And I had these cousins who were always going to matinees at CBGBs. And, like, had introduced me into all this shoegaze and then rap, and then my being Indian, I didn't want to just have the stock sitar and tabla tracks. Right. I wanted real fresh music. And so I'd say there's a direct line from working with you to the way some of these things feel.
- [09:25]
Noel
It's very kind, and it sounds fantastic. And we're burying the lead here a little bit. We should probably talk right away just about the subject matter around this season of Skyline Drive. How to live forever. And then a little later, we're gonna get into something. I think Ben and I are both excited to talk about this idea of the Oregon Trail.
- [09:44]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Yeah, totally. I mean, I can just. To take a backstep. Like, the first season ended up, I wanted to do something about astrology, because astrology was this thing that, like, you don't believe in the US or it has become more and more popular. But certainly as a kid, it was this thing that was a complete joke. And then when you go to India, people are basing their entire lives on it. Like, people were having SE C sections and ordering gynecologists to like their obgyns to deliver a baby within a 90 second window because they felt that was what would make the, you know, the life of this child the best possible. And for me, like, being first generation in the U.S. like, it was one of these things where I always had to translate each other's cultures to, you know, like, I'd go to India and have to be the translator for US Culture and US like for India. And I wanted to make a show that wasn't for believers or skeptics, but was just really fascinated with the topic and all the sort of like strange aspects from Reagan and his nuclear deproliferation linking back to his astrologer, basically telling him that this is the moment he should do it. To baseball teams in California deciding whether or not between two players, managers were actually using astrologers to dictate which players they'd use. And they don't go on the record on this, but it is true. And so I wanted to do this whole lark. And then I went to this astrologer in Queens, had this really wonderful reading. But in it he told me my dad was going to fall ill. And then 30 minutes after it, my dad texted me that this metastatic cancer had spread through his body and only lived for three weeks after that. And so it was this idea of what happens when you don't believe in astrology, but astrology keeps happening to you. And I didn't know where to go from there. I love that I did this season. I thought it was a fascinating topic that you could pull people into this sort of cultural phenomenon. And as I was looking through old tapes, I noticed that an astrologer had told me that I probably would only live to 60, maybe 64 at the latest.
- [12:10]
Ben
What? No fire emblem?
- [12:11]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Yeah, but that's, you know, so I, I found this little tape and at the same time I realized that like, you know, when you turn, there are two moments in your life, one in your sort of mid-40s and, and one in your early 60s, where your body goes through precipitous declines. And so being 46, I've started feeling, you know, like that, you know, I don't recover the way I used to. Like, my body is a little more achy there. You know, my metab certainly isn't the same, but, but feeling that and then realizing there's this explosion of science around us, right? And, and this whole new wave of really often wealthy people who are invested in science who think that they're going to live forever and they have this real sense that like, you know, they miss the age of exploration and, and they want to be around for to sail the stars essentially. And, and they that various therapies, life extension techniques, et cetera, will have them live well into their mid hundreds. And many people think that they'll live more than that.
- [13:27]
Ben
Let's stay on this for a second, Mangesh, because we have, in our research we had the weird moment that happens to a lot of us nowadays where we say, okay, we're listening to this amazing story. It's cinema for the ears, right? This is amazing fact based storytelling. And then we have that moment where we look at each other and go, oh wait, we could just call man gesture Pedaskin.
- [13:56]
Noel
This is also, I mean we talk about so much of this stuff just organically over the years. I mean we're all incredibly fascinated by life extension technology is like red meat for critical thinking, conspiracy discussions. So it's so awesome to see you kind of point your laser focused research brain at that topic. And it gives us so much to think about and to chew on. So, yeah, seconding that.
- [14:18]
Ben
Yeah, you travel in the course of this season. You travel to all sorts of places physically and cognitively. You're talking to some of the world class experts at elite research institutions like Harvard and MIT and so on. And then you're also going a little off the grid to biohacker communities, to what I'm still convinced is a very strange commune. And you've got to tell us really quickly in your exploration of what you call longevonauts, what are some of the most surprising things you learned?
- [14:57]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Yeah, I mean for us it really started from a place of not picking apart the stuff, but really just trying to understand and understand people's motivations and this very human sense of wanting to live forever. I think what's fascinating about it is that it stretches so many spaces. Right. One of the things we did was we ended up talking to two philosophers who were debating whether endless life could be a meaningful one. And to me, the fact that one of the California, the University of California systems, he's like a dean and this emeritus, he's arguing that you could have an endless life that's meaningful is incredible. Right. And then the other person who's considered this, like he's at Cambridge and he's this philosopher who is called a mortality curmudgeon, thinks that you could have a radically extended life, but life changes so often every 100 years that, you know, you could be considered a good Brit because you were a colonist, you know, like, you could be considered a good Brit because you were the head of a household and someone who controlled his wife and family, but now, you know, you're someone who has to change diapers and things like that. And, like, the changing morality and customs and ideas make it very hard to cling on to what a good and meaningful life is. And watching these two people debate is just, like, stunning, right? And so, like, just on the philosophical side of it, my roommate in college was a philosophy major, and everyone was always like, you know, what are you going to do with a philosophy major when you grow up? And now you go to Silicon Valley and every single thing hints on philosophy, right? Like, should you upload your life and your consciousness? And is that a version of you? There are 20 versions of you, right? Like, if you. We're going to talk about organ replacement and body replacement and clones and, like, every single thing touches on ethics and it's all philosophy. And it's. It's fascinating that, like, in some ways, that's where the show started with how there had always been the sense, not only like a perpetual sense of snake oil that was marketed to people, but. But also this sense that there's always been a quest to live forever, whether that's through religion and the idea of a soul or, like, you know, reincarnation ideas of elixirs, right? Like, all these are ancient ideas that sort of perpetuated our lives because we can't figure out how to accept our life stopping.
- [17:49]
Noel
Well, you know, it's funny, really quickly, I've been super enjoying the new season of Interview with the Vampire, the vampire Lestat. The songs are fantastic. But one thing that vampire lore and, you know, fiction has always bumped up against is like, what is it like to live forever, functionally speaking, to see all the ones that you love pass away and have to kind of reinvent yourself over and over and over again. And it does seem that inevitably these individuals sort of head towards a life of nihilism and hedonism. And it just feels like the Silicon Valley mentality of it all has a little bit of that in it as well. This idea of, like, well, yeah, living forever sounds great, but then what do you do with that life? And it sort of. You start seeing, like, the Elon Musk's of the world, where it just feels like enough is never enough. And I'm fascinated by the philosophical side of what living forever even looks like.
- [18:44]
Mangesh Hadakutur
I think you're absolutely right. There's this, like, incredible philosophical side to it. There's a side of, like, you know, is it natural or not natural to do this? Right. Like that's always been a part of it. I think the other thing that ends up coming up before we even get to the science of it is the economics of it. Right. Like the idea that you can end up with. You know, I talked to this guy, Will Mair, who's at Harvard, and he's in the public policy school there and health school there. And he is. And one of the things he was talking about is that when you're testing longevity science and ideas of metabolism, fasting, et cetera, you are often working with parasites and two types of worms, these C. Elegans and then this other type of worms called the Loa Loa. And the two worms are almost functionally identical and the ways you can play with them are identical, except that that the C. Elegan has a very, very short lifespan and the Loa Loa has this enormous lifespan. And it's because one of them lives in a cosseted environment, the other doesn't. And what he sees is essentially the splitting of species that may happen with the ways that longevity, the ways that people in these communities are moving to islands like Prospera and these exit communities where they'll be siloed and the ways that the rest of us will emerge, the ways the rest of our health will be taken care of could be vastly different. And that's also really stunning.
- [20:21]
Ben
That's a great point. Let's hang there for a second because we've had some very interesting conversations with old professors of ours about the exact points you're bringing up. Not just the idea of a species driven kind of inequality, right, or island effectively, but also the hard cold truth that historically most societies are designed with the assumption that people die at a certain time, right? And we see this in populations that are maybe not hitting what we call like their sustainable reproduction rate, right, where, where the population is largely getting older. And even now, without amazing sci fi immortality, we see countries having to ask serious questions about what happens when their demographics are upended. And the economic inequality aspect of this is one of my favorite parts of your exploration in this season of Skyline Drive. Because we're not just focusing on the science, right? We're not just throwing stats. We're talking about, as you said, culture, philosophy, what it means to be human. And with that I'd like to bring bring some attention to one of our favorite parts of your Oregon Trail episode. You clocked something that we clocked as well, man. Our buddy Daddy V over in Russia is Apparently trying to live forever.
- [22:05]
Noel
There was some hot mic a little bit. There was some hot mic conversations between him. Right. And Uncle G. That, That's. That's what. What hipped me to this. But I would love to know more because that was really the only time that that's crossed my radar. But, yeah, it makes sense. But how. How exactly is he getting into this world?
- [22:22]
Ben
Yeah, we had this. Just so you know, make sure we had this moment where we were talking about this hot mic story that Noel mentioned. And eventually we shrugged our shoulders and we said, you know, maybe that's just like those guys version of small talk. Yeah, the way that we talk.
- [22:37]
Noel
How's your golf game?
- [22:38]
Ben
TV shows.
- [22:39]
Noel
How's your blood boy? What's your life? Yeah, exactly.
- [22:41]
Ben
Yeah, exactly. So could you tell us a little bit more about this Live Forever initiative or what's going on with Vladimir Putin?
- [22:51]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Yeah. So, I mean, what's funny is that, like, I had done this interview with a Russian journalist who'd worked at
- [23:00]
Noel
a
- [23:00]
Mangesh Hadakutur
publication called Proact, and he has actually been banned. He's excommunicated, essentially, from. From Russia. And. And the reason is, is. Is because he was reporting on Putin's health. And. And Putin's health is so secretive, Right. So much of his identity is based on him being shirtless, him being like, you know, hunting and this sort of virility.
- [23:28]
Noel
Right.
- [23:28]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Completely.
- [23:29]
Ben
And jiu jitsu.
- [23:31]
Mangesh Hadakutur
And I don't know if you ever saw this, but there's this incredible photojournalist who had gone around and taken all these pictures of kids who were Putin stands, essentially, and in their rooms were these photos of Putin shirtless. It was basically like Fighter B for Vlad. So proact, right? He's writing for this thing and he is discovering all this stuff. And along the way, he realizes that, like, Putin has. There's a whole team of people around Putin all the time. And he realizes that actually they're all doctors, and there are these periods where Putin will disappear, and they show old coverage in the Kremlin. But he finds that not only is Putin traveling to his houses, but in various places around Russia, but near them, in the hotels, there are these contracts that he finds where 12 doctors are staying at a time. And so what they discovered through various means was that Putin was getting various types of cancer treatments and surgeries, including a thyroid surgery, etc. So they kind of cracked the wall on what is going on with Putin's health. But what he hadn't quite figured out and hadn't quite pinned, and along the way There are other crazy things, right? Like Putin's taking baths in de. In this deer blood extract in, In Siberia, right? Like, like there, there are all sorts of things that are sort of like folk ideas that circulate to show his virility. But what happens is that like, he, he knows that his daughter, Putin's daughter, is, is very into genetic manipulation and, and, and, and epigenetic stuff. And, and, and it doesn't quite come out until a little later. But there's this conversation that takes the world by storm, right? It. Putin and Xi. And you realize that Putin has always been obsessed with longevity, that he does not want to let go of control. This is well speculated and well reported on within proact, et cetera. And then what comes out in the Wall Street Journal is that Putin has basically invested in two different types of organ farms for humans. And in the, in the leaked conversation, Putin and Xi are basically saying that you can continue living to 150 if you keep replacing your organs, if you continuously cycle them out kind of like parts of a car. And they laugh, but they both acknowledge it's true. What hadn't been known was that Putin had been investing in this for quite a while now, and that he has this $25 billion initiative that's supposedly for all people, but really is for one person.
- [26:31]
Ben
Okay? Just like when he. A few years back, the government of Russia created a law that said any Russian president, whomever they may be, is immune from prosecution forever. You know what? Like who. Whomever that guy or a lady may be, this is. Okay, this gets us to the hot button issue here because anybody who's a fan of science fiction has read about the idea of cloning organs. And we know that there are already tremendous serious issues with the organ transplant industry as it stands today, right? Exploitation of the poor. The fact that even in the best of situations, a transplant may not take for one reason or another. But it seems to like, the idea of cloning organs comes with its own bevy of ethical albatrosses. So real quick for us, Mango, can you tell us. I know this is a softball, but people need to hear it. Can you tell us a little bit about the headline issues with cloning human organs?
- [27:47]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Well, I mean, like you said, they're just the medical issues, right? Like the idea of trying to take an organ from someone who's a foreign person in a way, and a foreign body and insert it into you makes the ability to host the organ more difficult. So the idea is that cloning obviously makes it more smooth if I've got a clone of myself that has been built to replace my heart. That I guess makes the surgery more smooth and hopefully the implementation. But obviously the ethics of whether that clone has consented is very difficult. The pain you're putting the clone into. Also the idea that these clones don't grow in petri dishes, they have to be birthed. And so the idea that someone is giving birth to a clone of me for the specific purpose of organ donation is really tricky ethically. I mean, I think, you know, that I was talking to one person who was saying, like, you know, we for a long time believed that any sort of transplantation was, was unnatural. Right? Like hearts. And, and we, we, we have a hard time surrendering to autonomous cars in a way. Right. Like, so maybe this is just something that we will grow accustomed to because there's a need for it in the future. And then on the other side of it, there's a whole bunch of people who say, like, like these science fiction books were written for the express purpose of letting us know that these are the dangers and implications. And instead these people have taken the wrong lessons. All these people who grew up on this science fiction have like, picked up on the wrong ideas for the wrong reasons.
- [29:33]
Ben
And so kind of like naming a company Palantir.
- [29:38]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Exactly.
- [29:39]
Noel
Oh, yeah. Well, there's so many examples of these, like, Silicon Valley types not getting the whole point of the science fiction that they're obsessed with and like naming things after like, what is ultimately dystopian, like cautionary tales, you know, like, I forget the exact series that he's into, but it's like he kind of seems to have missed the point. I do wonder though, I mean, obviously we're not quite there yet in terms of like fully, you know, birthing clones in order to harvest their organs. And of course, the ethical questions, there are many. We do have examples though of like, you know, growing in a human ear on a lab rat, or various like lab grown organs harvesting things like that. Is that to you a little less ethically fraught or feel like that's sort of the middle ground? Is that maybe where some of this research should go into that may be,
- [30:29]
Mangesh Hadakutur
and that is one of Putin's initiatives is creating basically a pig farm where the pigs are growing the organs for us within them and harvested for that. Right. And you can see how that's a clear sort of middle ground between the two spaces. I also think that, you know, the mice stuff is really fascinating in terms of, of on one hand, like, the transfer isn't significant, right? Like it's not clear like the, the amount of advances you can make in mice and the way that transfers to human is so small in some ways it's only like 20% or something. But, but, but on the other hand, like what's been stunning to me, like as I started this, it's funny because now the odyssey is a big thing. But when we started this, we were thinking like, oh, what if we treated this kind of like an odyssey, right? Like where we, we first went to the land of Boston where it and sort of science that government was funding and science for everyone, right? In a way. And then we left those shores and went to California where there was wildness and then we went to, you know, and we were trying to build a story that way in a sense, and then ultimately returning home. But the thing about like the science I saw in MIT in particular that was stunning to me was that like, like there were all these non invasive techniques that ended up being really incredibly fruitful. And so like one was I walked into this lab of this brilliant neuroscientist named Li Wei Sai. And you walk into the MIT labs and they've got a little screen with what looks like mice at a rave. And I was like, why is there a stroblae and mice going on? And whatever. And she said that basically they figured out that if you, you flash lights at a certain frequency and you have certain pulses that you can reduce the effects of Alzheimer's on people. And so it started in mice and that's transferred to humans. And now there's going to be a mask that people can wear and headphones. And through that pulsing, basically your symptoms of Alzheimer's will decrease, which is just unbelievable, right? And this is like before we even get to the science fiction of it, all these non invasive therapies are incredible. And then the other thing she was doing is like without growing clones, she had figured out like how to create something called a migraine, which was creating these organoids of your brain using six stem cells that basically mimicked your brain. And so they could give it different medicines and therapies and see how your body specifically would react. So you don't need like a brain transfer or whatever. Like from, I realize, brain transfer, we actually talked to someone who is trying to replace a brain cell by ce. But I mean, this is just miraculous medicine. And the fact that if you have Alzheimer's or neurodegenerative diseases that in a lab they could replicate your brain and figure out which medicine and which specific Cocktail is perfect for you.
- [33:40]
Ben
That's fascinating. It is.
- [33:42]
Noel
Hey, Tennessee Pal here.
- [33:44]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Noel, Ben and Mangesh will be back right after a word from our sponsors. I'm Mangesha together. And I'm back with a new season of the podcast, Skyline Podcast Drive. This time I'm diving into a rabbit hole of peptides, organoids, blood boys, blue zones, and brain replacement to try to understand what this longevity obsession is all about and what it really means to live forever for all of us. I learned about some rad science. I can make a brain for you. And then we can test what drug is the best for your brain as opposed to his. Here's some hard truths. I would expect Indians to age faster, but I did not expect it to be almost a four to five year acceleration and get myself into a world of trouble.
- [34:33]
Ben
I'd say probably start bone smashing.
- [34:35]
Mangesh Hadakutur
That doesn't work.
- [34:36]
Noel
Make it look more defined.
- [34:38]
Mangesh Hadakutur
They say it works.
- [34:39]
Ben
I don't know.
- [34:40]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Listen to Skyline Drive how to live Forever on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [34:50]
Ben
The Declaration, which is full of these
- [34:53]
Mangesh Hadakutur
beautifully rendered sentences and paragraphs about enlightenment ideals, does also have this darker history to it. Why is it important for the darker part of the Declaration of Independence and the American Revolution? Why is it important that Americans know about it?
- [35:12]
Noel
Well, if we don't understand the full
- [35:14]
Mangesh Hadakutur
context in which our nation was founded, we won't understand the full context in which our nation now finds itself. I'm Rebecca Nagle. Gohin Tawadon Jalecayetlike la citizen of Cherokee Nation. Are you guys big Chiefs fans?
- [35:30]
Ben
Hell yeah.
- [35:32]
Mangesh Hadakutur
This is First America, the true story of how the United States States came to be and how we got to this present moment. Listen to First America on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Bill, why is my eye twitching? Does this mean I'm in perimenopause? Maybe I have adult adhd. I need to look this up. Where's my phone?
- [35:56]
Noel
Juliana, your phone is hot to the touch. I think it's asking you for a break.
- [36:00]
Mangesh Hadakutur
You know what? Maybe I should just ask ChatGPT.
- [36:03]
Ben
Or maybe we can ask an actual human.
- [36:05]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Yes, like a couple sex therapist.
- [36:07]
Noel
Whoa, that escalated quickly.
- [36:09]
Mangesh Hadakutur
But okay, because I have questions.
- [36:11]
Noel
We have questions.
- [36:12]
Mangesh Hadakutur
And I bet everyone has questions like, is it normal to sleep in separate bedrooms?
- [36:17]
Ben
We do that.
- [36:18]
Mangesh Hadakutur
How about this one?
- [36:19]
Noel
Is bribing your kids bad parenting or just negotiating?
- [36:22]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Oh, and I still do need to know. Why was my poop Green that one time. Hypothetically.
- [36:26]
Ben
Right.
- [36:27]
Noel
Okay. Well, instead of letting the Internet guess we've got actual people answering these exact
- [36:33]
Mangesh Hadakutur
questions and laughing with us has got to be better than spending three hours down a rabbit hole online. Listen to Bill and Juliana, the podcast
- [36:40]
Noel
on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or
- [36:43]
Ben
wherever you listen to your podcasts.
- [36:48]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Hey, guys, Paul Verze here, and I want to talk to you about Paul's best podcast, Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network and iHeartRadio. I sit down each week with a special, special guest, and we discuss the absolute best of things.
- [37:00]
Noel
Pete Davidson. It's that and then there's everything else.
- [37:02]
Mangesh Hadakutur
He would just shout one line, and it would murder.
- [37:05]
Ben
Marie, lunch.
- [37:08]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Let's talk about the best moments that
- [37:10]
Ben
we had on the road.
- [37:11]
Mangesh Hadakutur
I would love a cocktail. Dude. Joker get last row, middle seat on a Southwest Airlines flight. Joe, how was your flight? It was great. The guy in Penn State, we were on the field, and the player thought Joe was his former coach. He hugged him and hugged him, and Joe just went with it. The guy goes, what are you doing here, coach? And Joe just goes.
- [37:30]
Ben
And you walk in, and it is bananas. I mean, it's a feast for the eyes. And I was like, it's like, it's not my thing either, but we're here.
- [37:38]
Mangesh Hadakutur
When in Rome, top athletes, chefs, musicians, everybody. Listen to Paul's best podcast on the
- [37:44]
Ben
iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [37:49]
Noel
Foreign.
- [37:54]
Ben
We have to make, which doesn't spoil the show too, too much. We were talking about this off air, you, Noel and myself at some parts of this investigation, especially in the Oregon Trail episode. Dude, you sound like a spy. And you're one of the nicest, most personable folks that we know know.
- [38:16]
Noel
So those are the best ones. You never see them coming, you know?
- [38:20]
Ben
Right. So the question becomes we see this multiple times, right? In that episode in particular. But in a lot of your other explorations in this season of Skyline Drive, we have to ask, why are so many people so cagey about this stuff? Like, I remember the moment where you said, okay, this guy. Guy gave me a lot of good information. But whomever they were, they were not comfortable being on air. So I got my cousin to do voiceover.
- [38:53]
Mangesh Hadakutur
There are so many people who will tell you off camera, like, what they are hearing in this space, but don't they both want access to sort of like they want to be on that island, right? They want to have access to the better life, et cetera. They want to be able to have their companies funded. But then you hear about these like. Like mansions where people use words like eugenics without any sort of worry, and they actually think it's a good thing to be able to use it. Like, it has no connotation from the past. And it's really crazy to hear the sort of ways people are thinking about the future and the ways that people think about a future that isn't inclusive. And it's the ways.
- [39:36]
Noel
Is that not the elephant in the room, though, that this is not for everybody, that this is. This is like, it's so research funding dependent. And like, who is. Who are the ones that are providing that money? And then they're literally doing it. So it's just for them and their, like, you know, their community. I mean, this is important research that could save lives of everybody in the world, but it's not for everybody in the world.
- [40:00]
Mangesh Hadakutur
I think. I think one of the craziest things to me was realizing, like, what this is like in practice, right, where. Where you have a researcher who was at Yale, the superstar who was publishing nonstop Stop. Papers, right, Goes to work for ALTOS Labs, is there for four or five years, hasn't published a paper since, you know, like. And I mean, there's maybe one paper that was a holdover or whatever, but the fact that, like, all of this is being done in private in a way where none of us will be able to access it unless we pay extraordinary amounts of money, right, like, is difficult to stomach in. And the idea that, like, the way that the story is told is like, oh, we're doing something that's good for humanity, it's good for the world, this is for everyone, et cetera, when you know that the barriers to entry are going to be significant.
- [40:53]
Noel
Look at space tourism. I mean, you could draw a parallel with space tourism. And like, who is that for? And this idea that this is for the betterment of all, but it's just the Katy Perry's of the world that are doing on TV and making such a PR stunt out of it. But it's like you or I can't afford to. To do that as a bit of a joyride. But it seems like there's parallels there, but this is much more consequential, you
- [41:16]
Ben
know, and we could also think about smallpox, 100%.
- [41:20]
Mangesh Hadakutur
And I think there are two things there, right? Like, one is that there are actually a lot of medicines that could be used widely, right? Like metformin is one that is very, very cheap. It can be very Beneficial for everyone over like 50, right? Like can lengthen our lives supposedly, but they can't get the money for studies or research for it because you can't patent it anymore, right? Like it's too cheap. No one can make the money off it. And so like no one will fund it. And that becomes a real difficulty. And so you have people who are trying to make an economic argument for why, why to invest in longevity drugs. But those arguments are like, well, if you can get someone who's in their 60s to work for five more years, 10 more years, whatever it is, right? Like then, then that's. And it's strange that the only way that we'll invest in something that is really for humanity and to reduce suffering is through making the argument that these people should continue working. Right? Like, and so that's one thing. But Ben, to your earlier point, right, like you were saying about smallpox and the idea that we got these extra 30 years of life come from things that, that affect everyone, whether it's like smoking policies or like hygiene or, or like vaccines or seat belt laws, right. Like, like these things have affected all of us and given us all a better life ultimately. And, and so like the idea that like we're going to prolong our lifespans by not including everyone is, is kind of tricky and, and, and, and ultimately false, I think.
- [43:05]
Ben
Yeah, ultimately self defeating. There's this thing that we've been wrestling with on this show quite recently, which is that technological innovation is key, right? It drives the human experiment forward. But that technological innovation is only worthwhile if society evolves in steps with it, right? So if we had a smallpox vaccine, for instance, that was limited to the 1 percenters of their day, then smallpox would still be a huge problem happening constantly to everyone who wasn't wealthy. And with this we have to ask, you know, given the secrecy, right, given the fact that people are moving as, as you said, in stealth mode, everybody wants to be on the island. If the research continues as it continues now, right. And there's no interruption, civilization doesn't collapse or anything like that. Do you think to Noel and I's earlier questions here, do you think that we're looking at a dystopic society? Like, is there a possibility of true speciation?
- [44:23]
Mangesh Hadakutur
You know, I don't know exactly. What I do know is that like, you know, know in a time when billionaires used to pass away and their legacy was philanthropy, right, like that you would leave money to, to create a library, a hall, the betterment of society, et cetera, right. If the prospect of you living to 200, 300, et cetera, is there. There's no incentive to like share any of your wealth. Right. It just becomes more about hoarding. And if that becomes the, the way of the future. Right. It becomes very difficult to imagine how the capital gets spread in a way that the lesser thans or the other halves benefit. I mean, I think it's a real question. I think it's one that scientists are flagging right now. And I think that on the other hand, you see a place like Prospera and it doesn't have the sort of. Which is an island off Honduras where it's basically this libertarian paradise. And it's created to move medical trials much faster and operates on Bitcoin and all these things. They can't attract enough people to actually create a civilization there. And so on one hand maybe you get this elite group. On the other hand, how big is that and how does the rest of society like, how do they even function as a society is confusing to me.
- [46:04]
Noel
We talked about that on a strange news episode not terribly long ago about that community. And I just do remember some of those questions coming up. I mean, it reminds me of just the way that like, you know, AI or machine learning, whatever you want to call it, has the potential to replace so many jobs. And that's being pushed forth as like a feature, not a bug. Because of course then those jobs can be parlayed into other jobs that everyone's going to be benefit from it in the end. But that just seems very pie in the sky, especially if there is no groundwork laid to actually take care of the people in the face of this new technology that could replace menial jobs. Like where are those people going to go? What are people going to do? If there's no universal basic income or some sort of societal safeguard, then those people are just going to be left out in the cold. And that seems to be the case too with this life extension technology. What happens to the rest of us who have become mortals at this point? Seems like there's no framework in place to protect those people. And that is to me, Ben, I think where that notion of the dystopian version of these things goes. And it seems like the super wealthy are always, they're the ones that are doing all the biggest damage to the economy for the regular people, to the environment for the regular people, because they've got their bunkers set up, they're going to be okay, their family line is going to be protected. Like how do we safeguard against that, that.
- [47:26]
Ben
Yeah, you can't eat money, right? So that's, that's one of the things that maybe escapes the oligarchical class. And, and Noel, I think that's such a, such a phenomenally accurate, important and disturbing point. And we have to, we have to take this to a little bit of a personal note for you here, Mango. Knowing what you know now after these investigations, the spy level research is as well, would you ever consider going to some of those gray market solutions for a new organ?
- [48:04]
Mangesh Hadakutur
I don't.
- [48:06]
Noel
For a family member. I could see it if someone was going to. If it was. Yeah. I'm sorry, I don't mean to, to just. That's the only way, you know. And you've even heard like in, in, in Asia, for example, there's all these films about black market organ trading rings and about people that they can't get through the proper channels, going through these gangs and things to get, you know, a liver for their loved one. I mean, I could just see in desperation maybe it would be attractive. But I don't know, man. What do you, what do you think, Mango?
- [48:33]
Mangesh Hadakutur
And, and that's, and that's what that market is right now, right? Like, it is not, it is not farming organs for wealthy people so that they can just like replace things while they're still working, but starting to decline, right? It, it is the, the desperation that drives that. But I don't, I mean, I don't. It's hard for me to imagine that knowing the consequences and the difficulties of like obtaining the, the, the organs, how you facilitate the like, given everything else, right, the ethics of it, even the logistics of it are really difficult to like, like manage, right? Like it's. But I don't think, I don't think I'd feel comfortable playing in that space. I mean, on the other hand, right, like if you take it at a much, much like the, the market for peptides and, and retatrutide, et cetera, right, Is a gray market and people are very comfortable with that. There's no ethical, there's less of an ethical consequence with those things, right?
- [49:35]
Noel
Or even compounded GLP1 drugs. Like people that can't get it through the pharmaceutical industry and then through insurance, they do these compounded labs which are, you know, kind of frowned upon by your physician. They'll say, I don't know what's in those, but, but people are still, you know, chomping at the bit to get those because they're significantly more affordable. I just think there's a parallel There as well, mentioning the peptides and a lot of these quote unquote new super drugs that are like changing people's lives. Everyone wants them, you got it. You got to be able to get them. And they're going to get them in one way or another.
- [50:06]
Mangesh Hadakutur
And it's just fascinating to see like, how many people between, I think Covid and the distrust of the government and the ways that like, people who should have been adults weren't adults, you know, for the rest of the country, et cetera. Right. Like, like there's a real distrust.
- [50:23]
Noel
Well said.
- [50:25]
Mangesh Hadakutur
And so you have people who are like PhDs in economics and people who are just taking their health in their own hands. Right. And it's interesting to see, like people use ChatGPT as their doctors and they, you know, they put all their information in and all their blood tests and they do all the work themselves, but then they come up with their own solutions to problems and I don't think that's gonna slow down.
- [50:51]
Noel
Dude, I didn't know that you could do this. I'm so sorry. Mango. I just got a body scan. I've been like on a bit of a fitness kick and I got one of these DEXA scans that like shows you your body content, fat content, visceral fat, muscle, bone density, all that stuff, much more precisely than like, you know, an at home kind of body scanner scale could do. And I was very curious about some of the aspects of it that I didn't fully understand and I didn't realize. I did ask ChatGPT about it and it asked me to upload the data document and I did, and it analyzed the crap out of it. And I know it's a slippery slope. I know it's, there's maybe some knock on consequences of using it and being that transparent and putting your personal stuff in there. But there is part of it, the benefit of it, that does outweigh the sketchy parts of it. And I don't trust my physician to a certain degree because they're just churning and burning, moving people through the system in and out. It doesn't feel like there's any kind of person personal touch. And like, you know, my father passed away due to inattention by physicians. And so yeah, I relate to that. I truly relate.
- [51:57]
Mangesh Hadakutur
I don't, I don't think that's an uncommon thing, right? Like as, as, as doctors have less and less time for us, right? Like, like that, that becomes, it's, it's funny, right? Like on one hand, how much information is good Information. Right. Like, because I, I did a DEXA scan too. I had a, a doctor talk me through it, all the altogether elements. And then I was talking to like a woman in Silicon Valley and she was like, I just think all these scans are horoscopes for tech bros. Right? And you're like at a certain point there's like so much information that you know, like, like and it's not, you know, you're chasing like little strands of things that may or may not be determinative. The other thing is like I talked to a professor who's working on body clocks and these like clocks that tell you how your organs are aging, et cetera. And I, I did two of these and right now you can send your same information to the same place and get two wildly different. Right. The clocks are not accurate at all. And I was asking him like, where in the technology are we? Like, are we at the like the Lisa, the Apple iic? Like where are we? He was like, we're not even in the garage yet. And the idea that like we're basing so much of our, and our ideas and our diagnosis on these things that are like completely inaccurate is not, you know, they, they might be directionally accurate but not like you can't replicate them.
- [53:24]
Noel
I'm looking for trends. I'm not making life or death chain choices based on the scan. I was just curious and I'm going to continue doing the work that I'm doing and working out and all of that. But it's just neat to be able to track trends and know that you're making progress rather than it necessarily being pinpoint accurate or causing me to make some sort of life, you know, medical decisions. I'm just more curious. I think there are some people that do take it as gospel.
- [53:48]
Mangesh Hadakutur
I, I, same thing, right. And, and it was helpful. It was like interesting to see like, and confirm things that I'd guessed and, and, and to like pay attention to other things that I hadn't thought about. Right. Like, like that's it is valuable. It's not that I, and, and, and I think you're right about the, the AI thing. I mean like health insurance is going to be eaten by AI because they made doctors inaccessible and inattentive. Right. Like, like it is something that, it's a, it's a situation that has, you know, self propelled itself. We're going to take one more quick break and then we'll be back with more from Mangesh.
- [54:29]
Ben
I've got to step us back here really quickly. Mangesh because we're using some terms that are very familiar to us and we may arguably be a bit doubled after looking into this. Could you, could you describe for everybody what a gray market is and then tell us a little bit about what, if any, legislation is in the mix or up and coming regarding organ transplants?
- [54:57]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Yeah, so a gray market is kind of the space between a black market and the regular market that just isn't being paid attention to that close closely. And so you can get away with like. One of the things I did on the show was in this quest to understand if wealthy people are doing organ transplants, people like Putin, et cetera. Right. Like we went to this white hat hacker who showed us just how easy it is to get drugs online. From, you know, very expensive cancer drugs to peptides to what? Testosterone, Right, testosterone to, to various IV drives. I mean, like, it was, it was surprising. And what I thought was like, oh, this all exists on the dark web, right? Like places that, that are super secretive and, and, and illicit in, in a major way. What I hadn't realized was that like, you can just order them online fairly easily. And they're all these sites that guide you to like, which bank accounts to use, which, which FedEx UPS, which, which transfer systems get it close to your house, but not to your house. So it's not pointed like, but there's a massive, massive market for all the drugs that are being, and mostly pharmaceuticals, not like cocaine, right. But things that are legal somewhere but aren't legal here and the transfer of that. And so that's how I've been referring to the gray market. And so it's like my friends in California who are doing various peptide stacks, et cetera, and ordering them from China and Russia, they're not under any great scrutiny from the police or Interpol or anything like that. And it's so common that a lot of people are doing it, but these are people who paid their taxes and otherwise live by all the rules of society in terms of organ transplants in that space, etc. I think that the current administration and some of where this stuff blends with Maha has increased a sort of right to try movement where one of the libertarian ideals is that as long as you're not hurting other people, you should be able to experiment on your own body. And that and sort of the speed of which drugs you can use, at which phases of clinical trials, et cetera, and the access to that is something that has increased. And there are drugs right now that are in the approval process, but People have seen the New York Times write about them, they've seen communities online using them. And so they know these drugs are going to be released in the next year, like retatrutide, right. And all these people are taking it in Silicon Valley because they feel like it's safe enough at the this point. And, and there's a gray market for drugs like that.
- [58:05]
Ben
And who are you to tell me what to do with my body? Big government, they say, I mean, I'm
- [58:11]
Noel
kind of with you on that for sure too.
- [58:14]
Ben
When, when you are exploring this stuff again, we're not blowing smoke here, folks. This is a home run and we've listened with rapt attention. When you are exploring this stuff, you have, you have a lot of conversations that make it to air where you're asking people, investors, tech bros or the techarati and researchers, you're saying, well, what is the future? What is the future of longevity and in this case the organ trade look like. So one of the questions we have to close on here is when the audience is exploring, exploring this story with you, what do you hope? What, what do we hope people take away from it?
- [59:02]
Mangesh Hadakutur
That's a really good question. I mean, I, I think we are ultimately choosing what we're watching. A lot of futures be laid out in front of us and, and trying to figure out which ones we want to indulge in. Right. Which is the future we want to live in. And, and I, I think that things are moving at such a clip in so many ways that it's hard to tell what's real and what, what's hype. And I think that even, you know, I chased down this story about cloning, which is really that this company, R3Bio, has been using a deck in Silicon Valley about full body replacement. And the idea is that instead of transferring organ by organ, which is a laborious process and as we talked about, like the organs don't always take. What if you could just transplant your head onto a younger version of yourself and the pitch was that they would be in the very distant future, that one of the possibilities is that they could clone a version of you and create it with no sentience. So all the brain function was knocked out, but ultimately it would be a body for you, the billionaire, to transfer your head onto this new body. And aside from moisturizing your face, et cetera. Right. There's very little to worry about because it's just one surgical snip. Right. And we've seen, you know, since the 70s, people have known that you can Take like, one monkey's head and put it on another monkey's body and see, like, the eyes move and the mouth open and, like, you know, and it can live for 11 days, 12 days. The idea is that now science has advanced so much that one surgical SNP and various things, the blood brain barrier, would allow the advance of this technology. And supposedly they've done it with mice. I don't know if it's true or not. It's hard to get real answers from some of these people because they are in stealth mode. But as soon as I talked to this person and then Wired did a story about them, and then MIT did a story, and then. But in the time in between, they've sort of walked back everything they claim to have done and claim they're doing because it's so scary. And I think that's the other hard part, is that a lot of people working on these technologies aren't very good at reading the room in terms of what they're very good at reading what the bitcoin billionaires are interested in the future. They're not good at reading the room for the rest of us.
- [61:57]
Ben
And I'm sorry, I. I kept darkly chuckling there, guys, because as soon as you said the. The head transplant thing, I was just picturing a future TMZ article where they're like, here's the dead giveaway. You know, it's the scar right there by the neck and it's the fact that the head is 80 and the body's 24.
- [62:18]
Noel
And it's got the neck bolts. It's got to have the neck. The neck bolts also very Futurama head.
- [62:24]
Mangesh Hadakutur
And J. We couldn't stop thinking about that.
- [62:27]
Noel
I mean, man, we could, you know, we could go on. You know, we could go on and on about this.
- [62:32]
Mangesh Hadakutur
I mean, the thing is, right, like. Like, the steps before there are really fascinating because they're thinking about, like, well, you can't test on primates. So what if you could do this with a sea of primates and create these clones and have these testable, like, primates that there's no sentience, right? You could come up with vaccines for something like Covid in a matter of weeks. Because you can test them and use AI, like, hooked up to these bodies and. And, you know, like, that's interesting. I don't know if that's a future that'll happen soon or never or in a very long time. But on one hand, these people are thinking about really fascinating applications. On the other hand, it's hard to know at what point which futures will accept and which futures biology will actually allow for.
- [63:17]
Noel
Well said.
- [63:19]
Ben
Nailed it. Yes. I think that that's where we get to our rabbit hole, folks. Please join us in our exploration of Skyline Drive, how to Live Forever and Mangesh. Thank you so much for being first off for being one of the coolest dudes we know. But also more importantly, thank you for bringing this disturbing story to light.
- [63:44]
Mangesh Hadakutur
You have to meet more people. You have to start meeting more people.
- [63:49]
Noel
Come on.
- [63:50]
Mangesh Hadakutur
You know I love you guys. I'm so thrilled. I'm sorry Matt wasn' but I love just seeing Dylan on the screen too. Is my favorite Tennessee, as you call him,
- [64:02]
Noel
but Tennessee pound. Yes, the Tennessee pound.
- [64:05]
Mangesh Hadakutur
Tennessee Pal. It is wonderful to be here. I love you guys. Love your show and honored to be chatting with you.
- [64:13]
Noel
The pleasure is at least 50% ours.
- [64:17]
Ben
Yes, yes, we did the math. Mangesh had a couture. Sure. Folks, Skyline Drive, the newest season, how to Live Forever, is available now. Wherever you find your favorite shows, we would love to hear your thoughts. Is this a brave new world for better or worse? How will the research continue? Should it continue? How far would you go to Live Forever?
- [64:41]
Noel
Yeah, let us know. Find us online at the handles Conspiracy Stuff or Conspiracy Stuff show, depending on which social media platform is your favorite. You can also give us a phone call. Why not do that? 1-833-S-T D W Y T K Leave a voice message. I believe you got three minutes. Ish. Give yourself a cool nickname. Make sure to let us know we can use your voice on the show. You might just hear yourself in one of our weekly listener mail episodes. If you don't want to do any of that, why not just send us a good old fashioned email?
- [65:11]
Ben
We are the entities that read each piece of correspondence we receive. Be well aware, yet unafraid. Sometimes the void writes back. We like Mangesh, love random facts. It's actually a big part of our friendship. So if you would like to send us a random fact, we will send one to you in return. So join us out here in the dark conspiracy@iheartradio.com. Stuff they Don't Want yout to Know
- [65:55]
Mangesh Hadakutur
is a production of iHeartRadio.
- [65:57]
Ben
For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
- [66:04]
Mangesh Hadakutur
This is an iHeart podcast, guaranteed.