Stuff You Missed in History Class: Behind the Scenes Minis – Complicated Werewolf

Hosts: Holly Frey and Tracy V. Wilson
Release Date: October 10, 2025

Overview

In this "Behind the Scenes Minis" episode, Holly and Tracy reflect on their recent main episodes about the possessions at Loudun and a particularly gruesome werewolf case. Their candid conversation explores historical context, the murky lines between myth and reality, and their personal reactions to research on mass possessions and werewolf lore. The discussion is equal parts insightful and casual, blending scholarly curiosity with humor and empathy.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflecting on the Possessions at Loudun

Timestamps: 02:37–10:02

• Complexity of Religious Mass Possessions:

  • Holly expresses frustration that modern occultists use historical mass possessions in religious settings as “proof” of the supernatural, when, in reality, these phenomena often served political or social aims.
    • “There were people that came forward and went, no, this whole thing is being used as a tool to get back at people that other people don't like and to try to firmly entrench the Catholic Church as superior...” — Holly (03:13)
  • They discuss the tumultuous era—Reformation, Counter-Reformation, disease, and war—that shaped these events.

• Danger of Secrets and Abuse of Power:

  • Holly discusses how religious organizations that operate in secrecy risk corruption and exploitation.
    • “Anytime you have an organization that puts itself beyond the reach of transparency... that's just like a hotbed of potential exploitation.” — Holly (04:13)

• Ambiguity Between Belief and Fakery:

  • The line between sincere belief and intentional deceit was often blurred. Some participants knew they were faking; others believed in their experiences.
    • “Some of the people involved in these claims of demonic possession were probably faking and knew they were faking. Others 100% believed they were possessed. And they are all grouped under one heading.” — Holly (06:35)

• Modern Interpretations:

  • Tracy talks about her fascination with medieval mystics, whose reported experiences could be interpreted today as symptoms of mental illness, but were shaped by their social context.
    • “Some of whom were having experiences that, to today's ear, like, they don't sound like a mentally well person.” — Tracy (07:07)

• Jeanne des Anges and the Power of Narrative:

  • Holly finds it remarkable how Jeanne des Anges was able to reclaim agency by fitting her story into acceptable church narratives.
    • “She found this weird way through to empower herself. ...The beauty of them is that…there's no one truth. So you can't say definitively anything and it just becomes a fun examination…” — Holly (07:51)

2. Dissecting the "Complicated Werewolf" Episode

Timestamps: 14:10–24:02

• Historical Werewolf Trials:

  • Tracy explains the challenge of researching Peter Stumpp (various spellings), the subject of their werewolf episode, and how werewolf trials overlapped with witch trials in early modern Europe.

• Brutality and Uncertainty of the Legends:

  • Both hosts react to the extreme violence described in source documents, with Tracy particularly disturbed by the alleged attacks on pregnant women.
    • “Attacking pregnant women and tearing the fetus out of their body... I was not expecting that.” — Tracy (15:28)
  • Holly notes her own skepticism about the literal truth of the accounts due to tabloid-like broadsheet reporting of the time.
    • “I don't trust that any of this is accurate...I just perceive none of it as real.” — Holly (16:12)

• Gore, Horror, and Reading vs. Watching:

  • Tracy contrasts her reactions to written accounts versus horror films or TV, saying she doesn't physically feel fear from books the way she does from visual media.

• Spelling and Language Challenges:

  • The hosts discuss the odd spellings of the period (V's as U's, I's as J's, etc.) and the greater process of standardizing English.

• Werewolf Lore: Girdles and Transformation:

  • Holly is amused by the idea that “girdles” (a type of belt) turn people into werewolves, drawing parallels between historical clothing and perceived transformation.
    • “It makes me want someone to draw a cartoon of like someone in a granny style girdle that turns them into a werewolf.” — Holly (18:31)

• Folklore Motifs: Girdles, Belts, and Ointments:

  • Tracy describes confusion over whether the transformative object is a belt or a girdle and Holly muses on why transformational clothing became linked to lycanthropy.

• Fiction vs. “Fact”:

  • Hosts reflect on how werewolf transformation motifs—girdles, pelts, ointments—appear in both “real” trial accounts and fictional works, blurring lines between folklore and lived reality.

• Contemporary Parallels:

  • Tracy draws a parallel between the spread of sensationalism in broadsheets and viral misinformation cycles online.
    • “How easy it is for misinformation to spread and feed on each other…” — Tracy (21:47)
  • Holly remarks that times of social upheaval historically generate increased belief in mysticism—a trend echoed in the present.

• The Devil’s Unguent:

  • Holly jokes about starting a skin care line called “The Devil’s Unguent,” showing the duo’s knack for injecting humor into scholarship.
    • “There is so much money to be made with a skincare line called the Devil's Unguent.” — Holly (21:24)

• Werewolves, Swearwolves, and Rougarou:

  • Holly and Tracy have fun with pop culture references ("What We Do in the Shadows," the Cajun Rougarou Festival). They distinguish between various werewolf types and folklore.
    • “It's werewolves. It's not swear wolves. Oh, how I miss that show.” — Holly (18:24)
    • “A loup garou is just a French werewolf. …There is some video game where like, a werewolf is one tier of enemy and a loup garou is like a more difficult version.” — Tracy (23:11)
    • “And then there's the Cajun Rougarou that will just bring you fabulous food.” — Holly (23:39)

Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Anytime you have an organization that puts itself beyond the reach of transparency... that's just like a hotbed of potential exploitation.”
  — Holly Fry (04:13)

• “Some of the people involved in these claims of demonic possession were probably faking and knew they were faking. Others 100% believed they were possessed. And they are all grouped under one heading.”
  — Holly Fry (06:35)

• “Attacking pregnant women and tearing the fetus out of their body... I was not expecting that.”
  — Tracy V. Wilson (15:28)

• “I don't trust that any of this is accurate...I just perceive none of it as real.”
  — Holly Fry (16:12)

• “This idea of something that transforms your body in a possibly painful way or an uncomfortable way being the thing that makes you into a monster is just a fun avenue to explore.”
  — Holly Fry (20:00)

• “How easy it is for misinformation to spread and feed on each other into a cycle.”
  — Tracy V. Wilson (21:47)

• “There is so much money to be made with a skincare line called the Devil's Unguent.”
  — Holly Fry (21:24)

Timestamps for Important Segments

• [02:37] – Start of history content: Intro to Loudun possessions
• [03:13] – Possessions as political/social tools
• [04:13] – Organizational secrecy and abuse
• [06:35] – Sincerity vs. fakery in mass possessions
• [07:07] – Medieval mystics and contextual belief
• [07:51] – Jeanne des Anges and reclaiming agency
• [14:10] – Transition to werewolf episode discussion
• [15:28] – Describing the violence in werewolf legends
• [16:12] – Skepticism about accuracy of broadsheet accounts
• [18:31] – Girdles, transformation, and historical clothing
• [21:47] – Modern parallels: Misinformation cycles
• [23:11] – Distinguishing werewolves, loup garous, and pop culture
• [24:02] – Wrapping up, hopes for a fun and safe weekend

Tone and Style

The podcast is lively, candid, and blends serious historical analysis with irreverent humor. Holly and Tracy riff on research frustrations, appropriately question sources, and self-deprecatingly acknowledge their own biases. They encourage listeners to engage with history critically but with curiosity and fun.

For anyone who missed this episode:
This behind-the-scenes chat is both a thoughtful deconstruction of historical possession and werewolf cases, and an enjoyable glimpse into how two historians research, reflect, and find parallels between the past and present. It’s equal parts history, skepticism, and pop-culture savvy, with plenty of memorable quotes and light-hearted moments to balance the serious themes.