Behind the Scenes Minis: Fitz Hugh and Sleepytime

Summary

Episode Summary: Behind the Scenes Minis: Fitz Hugh and Sleepytime

Podcast Information:

• Title: Stuff You Missed in History Class
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Description: Join Holly and Tracy as they bring you the greatest and strangest Stuff You Missed In History Class in this podcast by iHeartRadio.
• Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Fitz Hugh and Sleepytime
• Release Date: August 8, 2025

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Introduction

In the "Behind the Scenes Minis: Fitz Hugh and Sleepytime" episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, hosts Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson delve into the intricate life of Fitzhugh Ludlow, exploring his contributions to addiction treatment, his personal struggles, and his progressive ideas that resonate even today.

Fitzhugh Ludlow: An Unexpected Advocate

Early Perceptions and Research

Joe McCormick shares his initial skepticism about Ludlow, stating:

"[03:05]... his writing of his first book about his use of hashish kind of struck me the way, like a trust fund baby will do something for the first time and think they invented it."

However, as Joe delves deeper into Ludlow's works, his perspective shifts:

"[03:05]... I really came to respect a lot of his work."
"[03:06]... I just kind of now have a soft spot for him."

Personal Struggles and Advocacy

Ludlow's battle with opium addiction is a central theme in the discussion. Joe highlights Ludlow's honesty in his writings:

"[03:05]... he was really being very frank about the ups and downs of using mind-altering substances."

Despite his personal challenges, Ludlow remained dedicated to helping others strive for recovery. Joe admires:

"[03:05]... he was trying to advocate and help as many other people, even though he probably knew he was not long for this earth."

Complex Personal Life

Family Dynamics

The episode touches on Ludlow's tumultuous family life, particularly his relationship with his father, Henry. Joe reveals:

"[04:50]... Henry's writing was like, Rosalie is the thing that will fix my sorrow over Mary."

This complicated relationship adds layers to Ludlow's personal struggles, showcasing the intertwining of love, loss, and betrayal.

Speculations and Mysteries

An intriguing aspect discussed is Ludlow's involvement in a peculiar trial where he acted as a witness:

"[04:49]... Fitzhugh Ludlow had basically ghostwritten a thing for him and allowed him to say he had written it and he sold that piece."

This mysterious episode remains a point of curiosity, with Joe expressing interest in uncovering more details:

"[04:49]... Fitzhugh Ludlow wrote that, which was just weird."

Progressive Treatment Concepts

Halfway Houses and Step-Down Methods

Joe delves into Ludlow's innovative ideas on addiction treatment:

"[07:00]... he's sometimes credited with, like, kind of inventing the concept of a halfway house."

He elaborates on Ludlow's approach:

"[08:11]... he had this idea about it that you should do a period of acute withdrawal and then get the person kind of back on at a lower dose and progress the step down from there."

This method aimed to prevent severe relapses by providing continuous support during the recovery process.

Open and Frank Discussions on Addiction

Ludlow's candidness about his struggles set him apart from his contemporaries:

"[12:01]... Fitzhugh Ludlow is a really progressive advocate in the realm of addiction and treatment."

Joe appreciates Ludlow's transparency:

"[13:46]... I just like his openness."

Personal Anecdotes and Relatable Struggles

Sleep Challenges and Personal Connections

The hosts connect Ludlow's struggles with their own challenges, particularly regarding sleep:

"[10:35]... he borrowed like 10 yards of rope... to create a makeshift bed."
"[12:01]... I have a fraught relationship with sleep."

These anecdotes create a bridge between historical figures and contemporary issues, making Ludlow's experiences more relatable.

Reflections on Modern Practices

Tracy shares her frustrations with outdated medical practices, drawing parallels to Ludlow's time:

"[25:05]... it's very much vibes."
"[25:27]... I don't understand it."

This critique underscores the ongoing evolution of medical and therapeutic practices.

Concluding Thoughts

The episode wraps up with heartfelt reflections on Fitzhugh Ludlow's legacy. Joe expresses a wish that Ludlow had lived longer to further his advocacy:

"[13:47]... I wish he had stayed around longer because maybe he could have continued to advocate."

Tracy and Joe hope that Ludlow's pioneering efforts have paved the way for more compassionate and effective addiction treatment methods today.

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Notable Quotes

• Joe McCormick ([03:05]):
  "He was really being very frank about the ups and downs of using mind-altering substances and being very honest and not as ebullient as I had initially anticipated."

• Joe McCormick ([08:11]):
  "He had this idea about it that you should do a period of acute withdrawal and then get the person kind of back on at a lower dose and progress the step down from there."

• Joe McCormick ([12:01]):
  "Fitzhugh Ludlow is a really progressive advocate in the realm of addiction and treatment."

• Joe McCormick ([13:46]):
  "I just like his openness. I wish he had stayed around longer because maybe he could have continued to advocate and we would have gotten farther ahead in the destigmatization of these issues."

Conclusion

In "Behind the Scenes Minis: Fitz Hugh and Sleepytime," Holly and Tracy provide a comprehensive and engaging exploration of Fitzhugh Ludlow's life, his groundbreaking work in addiction treatment, and the personal challenges he faced. Through thoughtful discussion and personal reflections, the episode not only highlights historical facts but also connects them to enduring themes in addiction recovery and advocacy.

Transcript

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Ice Cube]

Ice Cube's Big Three is the surprise hit of the summer. This Saturday, 4pm Eastern on CBS, with playoff elimination on the line, the most physical, fiercest and competitive basketball in the world. Miami's Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson must win to make the playoffs, and breakout star Dwight Howard of the LA Riot will battle Gary Payton's Boston squad in a do or die match for both teams. Six teams are allowed for four spots and all must win. There's no crying in the Big Three, and the no holds barred action starts Saturday at 4pm Eastern, 1pm Pacific. Presented by iHeart.

[Robert Lamb]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime on the new podcast America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell and the DNA holds the truth.

[Joe McCormick]

He never thought he was going to get caught and I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology's already solving so many cases.

[Robert Lamb]

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

Hey, this is Robert Lamb and this.

[Joe McCormick]

Is Joe McCormick and we're the hosts of the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast. We've got an exciting week ahead for you on Stuff to Blow youw Mind. It's Cat Week. That's right. To coincide with International cat Day on August 8th, we're dedicating every episode in the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast feed to your cute, mysterious feline companions. So tune in for core Stuff to Blow youw Mind episodes on the earliest archaeological evidence for domesticated cats and the folkloric cats of the British Isles.

[Robert Lamb]

The week's Monster Fact will focus on a popular cat creature, and you better believe Weirdhouse cinema will cover some kind of head scratching cat movie. So tune in August 5th through 8th for stuff to Blow your Mind's Cat Week. Find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Joe McCormick]

Why are TSA rules so confusing?

[Ice Cube]

You got a hoodie on. Take it all.

[Joe McCormick]

I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devin and we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called no Such Thing where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming at me? I can't expect what to do now if the rule was the same, Go off on me. I deserve it, you know? Lock him up. Listen to no Such thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your Podcasts. No such thing. Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio. Hel. Happy Friday. I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I'm Tracy V. Wilson. You paused and I was like, is it my turn?

[Joe McCormick]

I don't know how to do my talkies some days. We talked about Fitzhugh Ludlow this week. I have so much compassion for him. And at the same time, I also have a funny thing that's kind of. My initial thoughts on him were less kind than they became during the research.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Joe McCormick]

Because part of it is that his writing of his first book about his use of hashish kind of struck me the way, like a trust fund baby will do something for the first time and think they invented it. And, like, they're the only person that's ever experienced this. But then reading it, when I actually started reading more of it, and I was like, oh, he's really being very frank about the ups and downs of using mind altering substances and being very honest and not as ebullient as I had initially anticipated. I really came to respect a lot of his work. And then the fact that while he was dealing with his own problems and his own difficulties of trying to get over his opium addiction, that he was trying to advocate and help as many other people, even though he probably knew he was not long for this earth, I just kind of now have a soft spot for him. Yeah, There's a weird thing I did not include. It gets referenced in some of his obituaries, and it's because several of them mentioned that his last public appearance was as a witness in a weird trial. And I was trying to figure this whole thing out because it seems like There was a Mr. MacFarlane who was in some trouble for various fraudulent activities. And that at some point Fitzhugh Ludlow had basically ghostwritten a thing for him and allowed him to say he had written it and he sold that piece.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Joe McCormick]

And so that was the only connection of the two of them. But once Fitzhugh Ludlow said in court, no, I actually wrote that it shifted how some of the other evidence was perceived because that had been used of a thing of like, this man who can write like this and do this. And it's like, no, he actually can't write like that. Fitzhugh Ludlow wrote that, which was just weird. We mentioned briefly in the episode that his father, Henry, after losing his first daughter, Maria, he loved his kids, but he, in his private writings, noted that he could. He could never love a child the way that he had loved Maria like nothing could ever fill that vacancy in his heart that he felt that he had after Maria died. Until. And this makes this whole marriage thing super weird. When Fitzhugh met Rosalie, Henry's writing was like, rosalie is the thing that will fix my sorrow over Mary. I love her so much. She's the daughter that I lost. And it's really, really odd.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yikes.

[Joe McCormick]

So then for that person who your father adores more than you to be the person that also cheats on you and leaves with your friend, Listen, there was a lot going on in this young man's life that was not. Yeah, super messy, not great. I also saw a thing, and I couldn't ever figure out where this came from or connect the dots to what they were talking about. There was an exhibit done at Union College about Fitzhugh Ludlow, because that's his alma mater. And in one of, like, the plaques about him, it suggested that his sister Helen was gay and that he knew even if other people did not, and that he had written a short story that was like, a thinly veiled way of talking about her and that he loved her and, you know, wanted her to be happy. But I could never figure out which one of his short stories it was. And I will confess to you, I. I did not read all of his short stories to find it, because Fitzhugh Ludlow had a busy pen. Like, he was a writer's writer. He never stopped producing. So I'm not sure which that was. If that's true, I would love to do some more research or find it in some way. But it's an interesting thing because it's one more way in which he seemed really progressive about a lot of things that modern society took a lot longer to catch up to. Like, the way he talks about treatment for addiction is so different than anything else. And there's also. He's sometimes credited with, like, kind of inventing the concept of a halfway house in the way he describes his treatment center ideal of, like, being a place where people can live and kind of, like, be living their lives, but also have the support that they need even after they've gotten over the initial difficulty of recovery from addiction.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, like the acute withdrawal symptom phase.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah. And it's interesting because I didn't go into all of it. We read so much of his writing, and there was so much that I had to strike because it was getting long. But he had this idea about it that you should do a period of acute withdrawal and then get the person kind of back on at a lower dose and progress the step down from there. Hmm. Because he felt like if you just do the acute withdrawal and then leave them hanging, people are more likely to have a serious relapse. Whereas if there. I don't. I don't know the science behind this. I'm not an expert in this space. I don't know if that's supported by any other actual, like medical or scientific studies. But this was just from his own experience. That's how he felt. And that if you could then reintroduce it in a very controlled way and step down from there, by the time you get to the lowest dosages, people will naturally just stop taking it almost without thinking, because it's not impacting them in any kind of positive way anymore. And you're offering up these other activities and things to engage them in a way that they just won't. They will have broken their reliance on it both emotionally and physically at that point. Which is a very interesting idea. So, yeah, I kind of love him. There's another unsubstantiated, again, it might be in his writings, but I did not get to read the entirety of his work. When he was doing his cross country travel with Bierstadt, he talks about how hard it was to sleep because in a lot of cases they were in like a stagecoach with other people and you were expected to sleep sitting up, which he could not do. And I'm like, brother, I feel you. So I read this in one biography, but it wasn't sourced and I wasn't sure where it came from, so I didn't wanna include it in the episode. So. But there is a piece of writing that suggests that he borrowed like 10 yards of rope and then he tied it around the top of the coach in a way that he could wiggle under the rope. Like one. One loop of it was at his feet, one was up at his shoulders, and he would stick his coat behind his head and he would ride on top of the stagecoach as a bed so that he could get some real sleep because he couldn't see sitting up. I don't know if that's true, but I am kind of charmed by it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. As a person who really struggles to. Like, I used to take overnight trains from Atlanta to Washington, D.C. and back when we were owned by Discovery. And I also had a phobia of getting on an airplane and attempting to sit. Like, attempting to get any sleep. Like, that was incredibly hard. And I would say a modern Amtrak train is way more comfortable than a stagecoach yeah. And like, those seats have more legroom and recline more than airplane seats. Anytime I'm on a Red Eye flight now, probably not sleeping much there either. And if I could rig up some kind of something to suspend my legs from.

[Joe McCormick]

Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Joe McCormick]

I'm the same. I am international flight. If it's an overnighter, like, going from here to Europe is usually an overnighter. I'm not sleeping, period. End of. I don't even try anymore.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Joe McCormick]

Because I can't sleep sitting up. I'm gonna walk up and down the aisles. Even if I have a very nice seat. I can't sleep.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, I think. Well, meaning people might send links to some of the various things that are supposed to loop over the tray table or whatever. And please do not. For many reasons. One of them being I am too tall for any of those devices.

[Joe McCormick]

I just find them all very claustrophobic.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Like, a lot of things that are made to kind of give your foot a place to rest or hang on a plane do not. They do not do that for people who are as tall as me.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah, well, and they don't work for people as short as me. Cause I can't always reach them anyway. It's like, there's no wind. But I do sort of love this idea that he's like, I'm going to solve this problem. I have gone days without sleep. My body will not allow me to sleep sitting up in a stagecoach. So can I just tie myself to the roof? And it seemed to work for him, if indeed that's correct. Like I said, I didn't find the source. But he wrote so prolifically that I did not read all of his accounts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Sure, sure.

[Joe McCormick]

But I'd like to. I really do like the way he writes. It is very florid. But his turns of phrase are quite fun. And aside from the gross surprise racism, I just like his writing style. I think that was most of what I had on Fitzhugh Ludlow, really surprisingly progressive advocate in the realm of addiction and treatment. And I just think, like, I'm sure there are others, but I don't remember ever having read another account of withdrawal that is so frank outside of a medical text that will literally tell you the horrible things your body is going to do. So I appreciate his openness. I wish he had stayed around longer because maybe he could have continued to advocate and we would have gotten farther ahead in the, you know, destigmatization of these issues and maybe actually gotten more people help sooner.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So.

[Joe McCormick]

Fitzhughed Ludlow. I hope wherever you are you see that we're trying.

[Unknown]

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[Ice Cube]

The reviews and ratings are in and Ice Cube's Big Three is the surprise hit of the summer this Saturday, 4pm Eastern on CBS, with playoff elimination on the line, the stars will be flocking to Los Angeles to witness the most physical, fiercest and competitive basketball in the world. Miami's Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson must win over Houston to make the playoffs, reeling from last week's savage beating at the hands of Chicago's possessed Montrez Harold. Last time these teams met, Miami beat Houston, but they are a dangerous team having their manhood at stake. Then breakout star Dwight Howard of the LA Riot will battle Gary Payton's Boston squad in a dark do a die match for both teams. Will LA avenge their previous shocking loss to perennial basketball Boston rivals to survive? Six teams are allowed for four spots and all must win. Don't miss the Big three, the three on three basketball league everyone is talking about. There's no crying in the big three and the no hold spot action starts Saturday at 4pm Eastern, 1pm Pacific followed by two games on Vice starting at 6:30 Eastern. Presented by iHeart.

[Joe McCormick]

A foot washed up, a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was.

[Unknown]

Most everything was burned up pretty good.

[Joe McCormick]

From the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

[Robert Lamb]

These are the coldest of cold cases, but everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is Cracking the code on DNA using new scientific tools. They're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it.

[Joe McCormick]

He never thought he was going to get caught. And I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Robert Lamb]

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors. And you'll meet the team behind the scenes at othram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Robert Lamb.

[Joe McCormick]

And this is Joe McCormick, and we're the hosts of the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast. We've got an exciting week ahead for you on Stuff to Blow youw Mind. It's Cat Week. That's right. To coincide with International cat Day on August 8th, we're dedicating every episode in the Stuff to Blow your Mind podcast feed to your cute, mysterious feline companions. So tune in for core Stuff to Blow youw Mind episodes on the earliest archaeological evidence for domesticated cats and the folkloric cats of the British Isles.

[Robert Lamb]

The week's monster fact will focus on a popular cat creature, and you better believe Weirdhouse cinema will cover some kind of head scratching cat movie. So tune in August 5th through 8th for stuff to Blow your mind's Cat Week. Find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Joe McCormick]

We talked about Paracelsus and the Doctrine of Signatures this week. That man loved Mercury. Yeah, he loved it for everything.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I've had him on my list for an episode for a really long time. And I think at one point I also had the Doctrine of Signatures on my list and I was like, I don't really feel like there's enough here to have a whole episode. There would have been enough for a whole episode if it had focused on if I had combined the two.

[Joe McCormick]

Which is what exactly what happened?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

You did.

[Joe McCormick]

Yes. Yeah. I find the whole thing really fascinating and also horrifying and also fascinating. But I made myself laugh or the Internet made me laugh with my he really loved mercury thing. First of all, I think that's probably. He probably just poured mercury on that dude's leg.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Joe McCormick]

And I don't know if it really healed it or not. Or maybe his body just healed on its own and he took credit. But you know how if you're on like in many, many search setups will work this way, but if you're on like an Internet Archive, full text book page. And you search for a word, you'll get little yellow bars at the side of the scroll bar that show where it shows up in the document. If you go into almost any of his books and search mercury, it's almost a solid line of everywhere. He's just like, mercury, mercury. I heart mercury. Like, he loves it so much.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, Hangman, that's poison.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah. Yo, you're killing people. Your mention of poison, though, it brings up a quote from him. And of course, all of these are translated. But I really like this because it may not be the first, but it's the earliest instance I have stumbled across of this now pretty famously used idea. Right. We always hear the dose makes the poison. And he wrote, quote, what is there that is not a poison? All things are poison, and nothing is without poison. Solely the dose determines that a thing is not poison. I was like, he kind of understood. Maybe he thinks he's using mercury judiciously all the time.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I think I've seen the, like, the dose determines the poison, like, attributed to him as the originator of it. I don't know if that's actually the case yet.

[Joe McCormick]

I don't know if it's true.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It's really. It's so hard to say for sure that any particular person originated.

[Joe McCormick]

He's the first to do a thing. Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And sometimes we will have said for a long time that so and so coined such and such. And then, you know, somebody digs up something from 15 years previously and goes, oh, here is the same thing, though.

[Joe McCormick]

Oh, Paracelsus.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Joe McCormick]

You were gonna, I think, share your stories of the doctrine of signatures being invoked in your professional work.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Joe McCormick]

So the pre sci.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. So many, many years ago, I'd had a couple of writing jobs that were really unsatisfying. They all involved basically business to business writing work. And there were a lot of things that I found it I found difficult and uninteresting. And I said I should learn to do something else. But I did not have the money or the time to go back to college and start over. And I could get a massage therapy certification in six months and still work part time during that six months.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So that's what I did. And at that time, North Carolina was just at the beginning of licensing massage therapists. A lot of states were like, this was sort of at the beginning of the movement to license and regulate massage. I went to this massage school and one of the classes that we had to take was an herbal medicine part of the curriculum. My personal feeling is that this does not actually belong in massage therapy, that herbal medicine is not in a massage therapist's scope of practice. And we had this herbal medicine instructor who brought various things into the classroom and was passing them around. And she was passing around one of them and she was like, yes, I'm not even gonna say what it is. Cause like you said in the episode, I don't wanna have some scraping, perpetuate episode, turn this into advice for people. But it was a root that she was passing around and talking about how good it was as a, quote, immune tonic, which is not really a thing. And she was like, feel how sturdy this is, how strong it makes me think of how, you know, strengthening your body and strengthening your immune system. Remember the doctrine of signatures. I don't think I would have been able to stop laughing that. Honestly, the two biggest frustrations that I had working as a massage therapist. One was that the places that I was able to get a job were mostly day spas and resort to spas. And I was working every weekend and in the case of the resorts, every holiday. And that was hard. But then also my professional colleagues would say, nonsense. And I, it. I was like, that's. That's not a real thing. The microwave is not spinning the molecules of your food backward. That's just not. It's not how it works. That's a real thing. Somebody said to me one time, so.

[Joe McCormick]

You are reminding me of a wackadoo thing. A coworker said to me once, but we'll finish yours.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. So, yeah, just this whole, this whole herbal medicine class, like it came up repeatedly. And sometimes I was like, yes, that root kind of does look like a man, but it also looks like a nerve. And it also looks like a tree. And it also looks like, I don't know, the, the branches of your lung anatomy. Like this. Yeah, this could look like so many different things. And yeah, we do know for sure that there are various herbs that do have some kind of medicinal use. Also, like, there are whole indigenous traditions involving food and medicine and, you know, botany and the environment that are not really what we were talking about in this episode. Like, we were talking about like a very European medical tradition. And one of the things that I found frustrating is that sometimes the folks who are sort of operating in this space today will kind of latch onto indigenous traditions or traditions from other parts of the world that they. That they're not part of and that they don't have a connection to and kind of use it to back up what's basically a remnant of 16th and 17th century European medical. Medical in quotation marks. Nonsense.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah, yeah, it's one of those things too where like there are, like you said, indigenous oral traditions, but you can't cherry pick them out of context to justify kind of operating on vibes. Yeah. When it comes to science.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, Vibes is really what I think of a lot with the doctrine of signatures.

[Joe McCormick]

Yes, it's very much vibes. You made me laugh thinking about a colleague who once was marveling at the way salt would help with icy sidewalks and she just said so earnestly and so sweetly, choose a lovely human. I just don't understand it. It's the molecules. And I have used the phrase it's the molecules so many times, so many times throughout my life since then. It's the molecules.

[Unknown]

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[Ice Cube]

The reviews and ratings are in and Ice Cube's Big Three is the surprise hit of the summer. This Saturday, 4pm Eastern on CBS, with playoff elimination on the line, the star will be flocking to Los Angeles to witness the most physical, fiercest and competitive basketball in the world. Miami's Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson must win over Houston to make the playoffs, reeling from last week's savage beating at the hands of Chicago's possessed Montrez Harrell. Last time these teams met, Miami beat Houston, but they are a dangerous team having their manhood at stake. Then breakout star Dwight Howard of the LA Riot will battle Gary Payton's Boston squad in the a do or die match for both teams. Will LA avenge their previous shocking loss to perennial basketball Boston rivals to survive. Six teams are allowed for four spots and all must win. Don't miss the Big three, the three on three basketball league everyone is talking about. There's no crying in the big three and the no hold spot action starts Saturday at 4pm Eastern, 1pm Pacific followed by two games on Vice starting at 6:30 Eastern. Presented by iHeart.

[Joe McCormick]

A foot washed up, a shoe with some bones in it. They had no idea who it was.

[Unknown]

Most everything was burned up pretty good.

[Joe McCormick]

From the fire that not a whole lot was salvageable.

[Robert Lamb]

These are the coldest of cold cases. But everything is about to change. Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime. A small lab in Texas is cracking the code on DNA using new scientific tools. They're finding clues in evidence so tiny you might just miss it.

[Joe McCormick]

He never thought he was going to get caught and I just looked at my computer screen. I was just like, ah, gotcha.

[Robert Lamb]

On America's Crime Lab, we'll learn about victims and survivors and you'll meet the team behind the scenes at othram, the Houston lab that takes on the most hopeless cases to finally solve the unsolvable. Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Robert Lamb and this.

[Joe McCormick]

Is Joe McCormick and we're the hosts of the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast. We've got an exciting week ahead for you on Stuff to Blow your Mind. It's Cat Week. That's right. To coincide with International cat Day on August 8th, we're dedicating every episode in the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast feed to your cute, mysterious feline companions. So tune in for core Stuff to Mind to Blow youw Mind episodes on the earliest archaeological evidence for domesticated cats and the folkloric cats of the British Isles.

[Robert Lamb]

The week's monster fact will focus on a popular cat creature and you better believe weirdhouse cinema will cover some kind of head scratching cat movie. So tune in August 5th through 8th for stuff to Blow your mind's Cat Week. Find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

My massage therapist education also included a unit on nutrition. Nutrition is also not within the scope of practice of a massage therapist, and our nutrition teacher told us that if your nutrition was perfect that you would never become ill in your life. You just wouldn't. You would have perfect nutrition and you would never have any kind of illness and you Would never get any kind of chronic illness. You would never develop cancer.

[Joe McCormick]

And then one day you just stop being.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I guess a lot of the things that she talked about, like this was just a very time consuming, labor intensive approach to food that she was kind of advocating in the classroom. And one of my classmates offhandedly said, oh, so does your husband help you with all of this cooking? And she said, no, he had a massive stroke. And we all just. Yeah, we all just sort of stared, stunned, and nobody wanted to say, so were you not feeding him correctly? But that, like that. I don't know. That's just the kind of stuff that came up. The parts of my massage therapy education that were about anatomy and physiology and kinesiology and massaging people, those were great.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And then there were other parts where I was like, I'm not sure why we need to learn this to get licensed. And also some of this is not real.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah. I have definitely heard many people invoke that idea of like, sometimes the old ways are best. And I'm like, please go to a doctor. Like, I'm not gonna say nothing ever was discovered that was helpful. But also, please go to a doctor.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Well, and especially now that we're living in the era of RFK Jr. Being the Secretary of health and Human Services.

[Joe McCormick]

Like, yeah, yeah, please go to a doctor. There was a passage that I found in the writings of Paracelsus that I actually quite liked. I don't necessarily agree with exactly what he is saying, but it has a lovely concept to it and it's about sleep. Because as we know, I have a fraught relationship with sleep. But I like this one. Natural sleep is the rest of the body which recuperates its wasted energies. Now, the day pertains to bodies, night to spirits. Bodies work in the day, spirits at night. The sleep of the body is the waking time of the spirit, for the two cannot operate together, being contraries and mutually incompatible things. Whatsoever is done by the body during sleep is really performed by the spirit. Okay. I don't think that there are two parts of me that cannot exist at the same time. But I do like the idea that sleep is restorative, that you will wake up with your body having done things that seem almost miraculous. That's all. I don't really think that a spirit takes over and massages my body. What if it did, though? Ah, that'd be great. That's probably why I can't sleep. The spirit keeps waking me up. I'm like, stop, stop. The spirit is a large cat Sometimes, yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I had a bad night of sleep the other night and I like, I just, I was, I kept waking up and I was having trouble settling back down. And then one of the cats came over and they normally curl up next to me and it's very cute and comforting. But what she decided to do in that moment was to get on the side of my body and make her paws into just little pokers that poked me in the ribs, in the bone. And I was like, why? You could be here and I would be comfortable. But now you're here and you're disrupting the spirit of my sleep.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah, I don't mind when the cats walk all over me. Cause I'm probably awake anyway. Yeah, yeah. I've just never had a. All of the like, practice good sleep hygiene stuff doesn't really help me very much. I wake up 16 times a night usually. And not just like random stirrings, but like I'm awake for a while. And I will say it's genetic. Throughout my family, a lot of people with the same sleep weirdness. It's fine. I'm fine. I've operated this way since. I remember there being almost an argument with my kindergarten teacher because I said something about being able to stay up as late as I wanted and my parents having to explain like we all kind of have some sleep problems and she can go to bed, but if she's awake she can read a book because she's. It's torture to sit there and lie awake with nothing. It was just a thing, you know. They were worried that I lived in some sort of wild stable where I was just running free and doing whatever a five year old wanted to do. But in fact, my parents knew we all had sleep disorders. Probably also easily cultivate. I don't know. I've tried all the sleep tricks. They don't work for me. They may work great for other people. I'm not going on vibes. I've seen doctors about it on top.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. I'm sort of imagining the well meaning emails that we may get advising you to see a doctor about your sleep.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah, no, I have.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That's the thing. It's already happened.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah. It's also weird to me though, because the flip is that it doesn't bother me at all to be awakened in, in the night. Like I don't.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Joe McCormick]

I don't care if somebody, if I'm sharing a hotel room with somebody that's not my beloved and they're snoring and it wakes me up. I'm like Cool. They're snoring. That's fine. If I'm, you know, if an animal is on me, if the phone rings, none of that bothers me.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Joe McCormick]

My beloved is not the same. He likes to sleep.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Joe McCormick]

It's a, it can be a little challenging, especially when you do have cats that are rude.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

For a number of years, stretching back a while. I have generally woken up sometime in the two or three o' clock in the morning range and then I'm awake for a bit. Yeah. And then I go back to sleep and just accepting that that's how it works for me made that a lot better. Because when I was like stressing out about the fact that I was awake, that did not help at all. And similarly, I've also. It's a thing that I've discussed with my doctor, all of that. But just sort of being like, all right, it's, it's 3:30, I'm awake. I'm probably going to be awake for at least an hour. And if I'm just chill about it, probably I'm going to go back to sleep. That was not the case this past weekend in part because I took a very long hike for the first time in a very long time and my whole body hurt.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And then a cat was putting her paws into like the most uncomfortable parts of me possible.

[Joe McCormick]

Yeah. Kitties. Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

If I.

[Joe McCormick]

My 2:30 ish wake up is my longest one. And I sometimes will just get out of bed and go sit in the living room and like mess around on my phone till my brain goes, you're sleepy again. And then I'll go back to bed. Cause if I just sit in bed, I will make Brian's night horrible.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Joe McCormick]

Or in some cases the bad cat is so bad that we are invited to move to the guest room by my beloved because she is the cat that is very bonded to me.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Right.

[Joe McCormick]

And the two of us will have a slumber party every night. Chatting and meowing. But it's very funny. In any case, if this is your weekend coming up, I hope you get great sleep. If you can. If you can't, I hope you have figured out a system that works best for you so that you do. Your spirit is doing the things it needs to do to recover. If you do not have a weekend coming up, I still hope you get great sleep. I hope everyone is kind to each other. I hope you have fun things. I hope you eat the most delicious things and that you feel restored in whatever way makes the most sense to you. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode and then on Monday with something brand new.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Ice Cube]

Ice Cube's Big Three is the surprise hit of the summer this Saturday, 4pm Eastern on CBS with playoff elimination on Milan, the most physical, fiercest and competitive basketball in the world. Miami's Michael Beasley and Lance Stevenson must win to make the playoffs, and breakout star Dwight Howard of the LA Riot will battle Gary Payton's Boston squad in a do or die match for both teams. Six teams are allowed for four spots and all must win. There's no crying in the big three and the no holds barred action starts Saturday at 4pm Eastern, 1pm Pacific. Presented by iHeart.

[Robert Lamb]

Every case that is a cold case that has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime on the new podcast America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell and the DNA holds the truth.

[Joe McCormick]

He never thought he was going to get caught and I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology's already solving so many cases.

[Robert Lamb]

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

Hey, this is Robert Lamb and this.

[Joe McCormick]

Is Joe McCormick and we're the hosts of the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast. We've got an exciting week ahead for you on Stuff to Blow your Mind. It's Cat Week. That's right. To coincide with International cat Day on August 8th, we're dedicating every episode in the Stuff to Blow youw Mind podcast feed to your cute, mysterious feline companions. So tune in for core Stuff to Blow youw Mind episodes on the earliest archaeological evidence for domesticated cats and the folkloric cats of the British Isles.

[Robert Lamb]

The week's monster fact will focus on a popular cat creature and you better believe weird house cinema will cover some kind of head scratching cat movie. So tune in August 5th through 8th for stuff to Blow your Mind's Cat Week. Find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Joe McCormick]

Why are TSA rules so confusing?

[Ice Cube]

You got a hoodie on? Take it all.

[Joe McCormick]

I'm Manny. I'm Noah. This is Devin, and we're best friends and journalists with a new podcast called no Such Thing where we get to the bottom of questions like that. Why are you screaming I can't expect. What to do now? If the rule was the same, go off on me. I deserve it, you know? Lock him up. Listen to no Such Thing on the I Heart Radio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. No such thing.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This is an I Heart Podcast.