Behind the Scenes Minis: Good News, Bad News

Summary

Stuff You Missed in History Class

Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Good News, Bad News
Release Date: July 25, 2025
Hosts: Tracy V. Wilson & Holly Fry

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1. Updates on Current Legal Cases

Rumesa Osterk’s Release

Tracy V. Wilson provides an update on the case of Rumesa Osterk, a graduate student from Tufts who was detained by plainclothes officers. Tracy explains that Osterk was released on May 9 after six weeks in custody. A judge determined she was neither a flight risk nor a threat, highlighting the lack of evidence supporting the government's claim that she supported Hamas. The only cited reason for her arrest was an op-ed she co-authored in her school newspaper, criticizing the administration's stance on an Israel-Palestine resolution.

“She was released on May 9. She had been in custody for about six weeks. A judge found that she was neither a flight risk nor a threat, and also that the government had provided zero evidence for its baseless claim that she supported Hamas.”
– Tracy V. Wilson [03:34]

Tracy recounts her emotional reaction to Osterk’s release, sharing a personal moment where she cried upon hearing the news while dining at Laughing Seed in Asheville.

“I was crying. And I wanted to say to the server, I'm not crying about the restaurant. The announcement had not happened that the restaurant was closing.”
– Tracy V. Wilson [04:13]

2. Supreme Court Decision on the Department of Education

Tracy clarifies misconceptions regarding a recent Supreme Court decision affecting the Department of Education. She emphasizes that dismantling the Department does not impact state-handled curricula.

“Dismantling the Department of Education is not going to return curricula to the states. Curricula is always, it's already handled by the states.”
– Tracy V. Wilson [06:12]

She further explains the Department's actual responsibilities, such as funding for under-resourced school systems, support for disabled students, and administering federal student loans, distancing these from curriculum control.

3. Misinterpretations of Historical Site Displays

The hosts discuss the challenges of public misinterpretation of historical displays at museums and national parks. They express frustration over visitors who distort the intended messages of historical sites, leading to unfounded complaints.

“We have been fortunate enough to do shows at museums and national parks and talk to people who work in those kinds of spaces. They are all working so hard to make sure people understand the nuanced nature of history.”
– Robert

“It just feels like all at once, slapping all of those wonderful people in the face. And it makes me very irate.”
– Tracy V. Wilson [10:09]

They highlight specific instances where feedback from visitors misrepresents the educational goals of historical exhibitions, undermining the efforts of museum professionals.

4. Experiences Hosting Live Shows at Historical Sites

Tracy and Robert reminisce about hosting live podcast episodes at notable historical locations such as Adams National Historical Park, Gettysburg, and the Women's Rights National Historic Site. They underscore the dedication of staff at these sites to present history accurately and respectfully.

“Every single person that we worked with in all of these places cares about their job, cares about being accurate, cares about having a thorough and respectful look back at what happened in this place.”
– Robert [11:26]

5. Discussion on Inconsistent Spelling

Tracy advocates for the revival of inconsistent spelling as a creative and delightful aspect of language, sharing her nostalgia for a correctly spelled pamphlet about cheese.

“I would like to have more of that in my life.”
– Tracy V. Wilson [17:48]

She recounts her past as a copy editor and her penchant for correcting others' grammar, juxtaposing it with her appreciation for enjoyable and accurate spelling in educational materials.

“The spelling of pamphlet that we read off in the pamphlet about cheese was one of the most delightful things.”
– Tracy V. Wilson [18:00]

6. Personal Struggles with Podcasting and Work-Life Balance

The hosts delve into their personal challenges managing the demands of producing the podcast alongside other responsibilities. Tracy shares her difficulty returning to podcast work after taking time off for family, compounded by the emotional weight of ongoing societal issues.

“This is the first thing that I worked on after taking a couple of weeks off to do some family related stuff and the combination of needing to get back into this type of work... was a process.”
– Tracy V. Wilson [30:47]

Robert discusses the difficulty of transitioning back to work post-vacation, expressing a humorous but heartfelt frustration with the struggle to regain productivity.

“I feel like vacations should be illegal. Not really. I want to take time off, but there needs to be like an on ramp period when you come back.”
– Robert [32:19]

Tracy reflects on her strategies for maintaining perspective during tough times, such as marking bad days on a calendar to identify patterns and seek necessary changes.

7. Reflections on Longevity and Commitment

The hosts celebrate the longevity of their podcast, reminiscing about the initial challenges and their commitment to continuing despite setbacks. They acknowledge the evolution of their roles and the additional responsibilities they've taken on over the years.

“So many more than 10 years later, Tracy. Like, we're on, what, 13?”
– Robert [23:19]

“Yeah, long time. We've been doing this show.”
– Tracy V. Wilson [24:05]

8. Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Tracy wraps up by addressing the emotional and logistical hurdles of producing the latest "Unearthed" episode, emphasizing the importance of completing the work despite personal and external challenges.

“It's the first thing that I worked on after taking a couple of weeks off... we have to get this thing done because we are Recording it in the morning.”
– Tracy V. Wilson [30:47]

She invites listeners to engage with the podcast community by sending feedback and teases upcoming episodes.

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Notable Quotes:

• “Find a sofa that can keep [e-mail]…”
  – Holly Fry [00:06] (Ad content)

• “Every case that is a cold case. That has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.”
  – Bill [37:21] (Ad content)

Please note that advertisements and promotional segments have been intentionally omitted to focus on the episode's main content.

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This episode provides listeners with an insightful behind-the-scenes look into the challenges and triumphs of producing historical content. From legal case updates and clarifications on educational policies to personal anecdotes and the intricacies of managing a long-running podcast, Tracy and Holly offer a rich tapestry of discussions that underscore their dedication to bringing history to life.

Transcript

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Holly Fry]

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[Robert]

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[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson. And I'm Holly Fry. We talked. We talked about. We didn't talk about. We just had our Unearthed episodes. Our most recent installment of them this week for the whole week. Starting off with so many updates. An update that I didn't put in there. Ooh. But would technically be an update. Is that last time on Unearthed, we talked about Rumesa Osterk, who is the graduate student at Tufts who had been snatched off the street by plainclothes officers.

[Robert]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

She was released on May 9. She had been in custody for about six weeks. A judge found that she was neither a flight risk nor a threat, and also that the government had provided zero evidence for its baseless claim that she supported Hamas. Again, the only thing that was actually cited in her being taken into custody was an op ed that she co authored in the school newspaper that was criticizing the Tufts administration's response to a resolution that was passed by the student senate that was about Israel and Palestine.

[Robert]

Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

There was never anything to suggest that she was a threat in any way. There are various immigration proceedings that are still going on. Some of them there's, I think, three different states. There's stuff happening in Boston right now. So in terms of, like, the immigration hearing that's still ongoing, what the government basically did was they canceled her student visa and didn't tell her about it and then arrested her. So that is just sort of an update on that. I found I was watching somebody, like, basically live blog the hearing that was happening on May 9. I was on vacation. I was eating my lunch at Laughing Seed, which is. Was a vegetarian restaurant in Asheville that very sadly announced that it was closing right after I got back from that trip. And I had kind of gushed at the server about how excited I was to be there, because it is like it was, you know, one of my very favorite restaurants when I lived in Asheville and when I was in college. And when the server came to give me the check, I had just seen the part about her being released on her own recognizance. And I was crying. And I wanted to say to the server, I'm not crying about the restaurant. The announcement had not happened that the restaurant was closing. Otherwise, I might have also been crying about the restaurant. But I got that news while I was on vacation. I was very emotional about it. Something else that I think people might be wondering why we didn't talk about at the beginning of the. Of Part one. We were talking about things that are still happening that are affecting the show. Is the Supreme Court's decision lifting a lower court's injunction allowing the big, big cuts at the Department of Education.

[Robert]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The thing is that is not directly related to our show, but I think a lot of people think that it is related to our show because they think the Department of Education has something to do with history curricula and other curricula around the country.

[Robert]

Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It does not. Dismantling the Department of Education is not going to quote, return curricula to the states. Curricula is always. It's already handled by the states. Yeah. If anything, one state, that being Texas, has an influence on all the other states because Texas buys so many textbooks that textbook publishers cater to them, align their stocks with Texas curricula, which means Texas is who is setting a lot of the thing, not the federal government. Dismantling the Department of Education is also not going to repeal no Child Left Behind. No Child Left behind was repealed in 2015.

[Robert]

Too late. Hot plate.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

None of this has anything to do with history curricula. It doesn't have to do with other curricula. What the Department of Education is actually responsible for is stuff like providing funding to school systems that don't have a lot of money, providing support for disabled students so that they can have the free appropriate public education that they are legally entitled to. Yes. A lot of stuff related to protecting students civil rights, like investigating claims that students have been discriminated against because of their age or their race or their sex or a disability. That is the Department of Education. The Department of Education also administers the federal student loan program. None of that has to do with educational curricula that was already being handled by the states. So that is why I did not talk about it in part one. The other thing is the news about the Supreme Court decision related to that happened as I was finishing. I heard that at like 5pm as I was doing the final read through of the episode outline and I was like, I cannot have another thing right now. Also, just to continue on that for a minute, the signs at the national parks, like the American Historical association statement said there were already plenty of ways to give feedback on the parks. This is basically inviting people to make the worst faith interpretations of what they see at historical sites and then have those complaints reviewed by people who are very eager to interpret. Something like slavery's legacy can still be felt today as you are a bad person who should feel bad. Something that we have seen again in our. In our listener Mail from folks who sort of hear something very different from what we said on the podcast. We very recently got an email from someone who said they were not going to listen to the show anymore because they said. We said that the government was shutting down all libraries and universities and that the. And that the government was telling everyone who wasn't a white male to leave the country. Like, we didn't say anything even vaguely like either of those.

[Robert]

Similar to that. No.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Not even. No. Like some of those words existed.

[Robert]

Although I will say this. I'm not gonna say that. Just know in my heart, I have just had a very non magnanimous and unkind read.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. Like, it is just a very established pattern of behavior. That there are people who go to museums and historical sites and see things that are accurately depicted about atrocities that happened at a site in the past or slavery or sexism or whatever. And then take that in a weird, personally defensive direction.

[Robert]

Yes.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And turn it into something that is not what that said at all. And then file complaints about it and try to get people fired and dox people and et cetera. So I don't. I don't like the signs.

[Robert]

No moi, non plus. And I. I will say one of the reasons this really hits my heart, aside from its just existence being built on, like, the invitation of these bad reads, is that we have been fortunate enough to do shows at museums and national parks and talk to people who work in those kinds of spaces. And they are all. I mean, I don't think we have run into anybody who was not working so hard to make sure people understand the nuanced nature of history and how you can't really appreciate any of the good parts. And if you're not also acknowledging the bad parts and how that push and play has worked historically. And so it just feels like all at once, slapping all of those wonderful people in the face. And it makes me very irate.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. I was trying to make a mental list. We've done live shows at Adams National Historical Park. Gettysburg.

[Robert]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Which I can't remember if that's a site or a monument or a. Like, exactly what its designation is. Women's Rights National Historic Site. Yeah. I'm saying all these from memory, so I might be getting it wrong in terms of, like, whether it's a historical park or a national park or a historical site or whatever. Were there any others that were, like, national park related?

[Robert]

Oh, girl. My memory should not be. Should not be questioned in this way.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Those are the ones that I'm remembering in this moment. And like Hollywood just said, every single person that we worked with in all of these places cares about their job, cares about being accurate, cares about having a thorough and respectful look back at what happened in this place. None of them are like, I don't know, like there was nobody that we have interacted with in any of these shows that has been either just like phoning it in or, or trying to make weird commentary in order to make white people feel bad like that.

[Robert]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I mean, I, that's just not a thing that's happening.

[Robert]

And also not a national park. But I remember when we were at Royal House and Slave Quarters.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Robert]

And interviewing the people there and one of the docents talking about a child, asking her a question about one of the enslavers whose portrait is on the wall, who looked like her and having that moment of, of revelation. And this person trying so hard to very carefully craft a response that was clear and truthful and fair without breaking this child down. And I'm like, they're working so hard already to do this in a way that is meaningful. Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Like we said in our previous installment of Unearthed, this is not even a tenth of everything that's going on. These are just the parts that are like, directly related to our show and our work.

[Robert]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Let's be real. Life happens, kids spill, pets, shed and accidents are inevitable. Find a sofa that can keep [e-mail] Starting at just $699, our sofas are fully machine washable inside and out. So you can say goodbye to stains and hello to worry free living. Made with liquid and stain resistant fabrics, they're kid proof, pet friendly and built for everyday life. Plus, changeable fabric covers let you refresh your sofa whenever you want. Need flexibility? Our modular design lets you rearrange your sofa anytime to fit your space, whether it's a growing family room or a cozy apartment. Plus, they're earth friendly and trusted by over 200,000 happy customers. It's time to upgrade to a stress free, mess proof sofa. Visit washablesofas.com today and save that's washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Robert]

Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos. But now the old gays pull back the curtain on their brand new podcast Silver Linings with the Old Gays. Brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Veeve Healthcare. With over 300 years of experience between them, hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Jesse serve four lifetimes of wisdom when it comes to love, sex, community, and whatever else they've got on the gay agenda. Listen in to these fabulous friends swap stories exploring how queer life has evolved over the decades and the silver linings they've collected along the way. Each episode dives into hot topics, from safe sex and online dating to untangling Gen Z lingo, as well as insights on how music, art, and fashion show up in queer culture. So check out Silver Linings, a show about how pride ages like fine wine. Available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mick]

Kelly Harnett spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit.

[Bill]

I'm 100% innocent.

[Mick]

While behind bars, she learned the law from scratch.

[Bill]

He goes, oh God. Harnett Jailhouse.

[Mick]

And as she fought for herself, she also became a lifeline for the women locked up alongside her.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

You're supposed to have your faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her.

[Mick]

So many of these women had lived the same stories.

[Bill]

I said, were you a victim of domestic violence?

[Mick]

And she was like, yeah, but maybe Kelly could change the ending.

[Bill]

I said, how many people have gotten other incarcerated individuals out of here? I'm gonna be the first one to do that.

[Mick]

This is the story of Kelly Harnett, a woman who spent 12 years fighting not just for her own freedom, but her girlfriend's too.

[Bill]

I think I have a mission from God to save souls by getting people out of prison.

[Mick]

The Girlfriends Jailhouse Lawyer listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jesse]

My Uncle Chris is definitely somebody worth talking about. He was the kind of guy that lived in a trailer with an ex con and a retired stripper, left loaded machine guns laying around, drank a bottle of whiskey a night, claimed he could kill a man with his bare hands, drove a garbage truck for a living, spoke fluent Spanish with a thick Southern accent, and is currently buried in a crypt alongside the founding families of Panama. Listen to the Uncle Chris podcast to hear all about him and a whole lot more. Wild stories about adventure, romance, crime, history and war intertwine as I share the tall tales and hard truths that have helped me understand Uncle Chris. This collection of stories will make you laugh. It'll make you cry. And if I do my job right, they'll let you see the world and your place in it in a whole new way. I can't wait to tell you all about Uncle Chris. Listen now to Uncle Chris on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Unrelated to any of these things. I vote that we bring back inconsistent spelling. I mean, we kind of have.

[Robert]

We just haven't accepted it yet, right?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. I am saying this as a person who, for my job, was a copy editor. For my job was the person who, like, created the style manual and maintained it for the website that we worked for, and a person who, I would say in my younger years, as a less mature person, corrected other random people as though it were my job. But none of that was useful. The spelling of pamphlet that we read off in the pamphlet about cheese was one of the most delightful things. And, you know, a person who is able to read, which, to be fair, there are a lot of people who struggle with literacy. But, like, I think a person who is able to read is. Is gonna know that P A M F L Y T spells pamphlet. And it delighted me so much to see that spelling, and I would just like to have more of that in my life.

[Robert]

Yeah. I also had this hilarious personal thought about the cheese pamphlet.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Robert]

Because I know I've told you before, and I'm pretty confident we have talked about it on the show before that, when I was a kid, I used to write pamphlets and leave them around.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

No, I think you did tell me.

[Robert]

Leave them around my house in an effort to educate my family. Yeah, I was a delightful child. Shaking my head now.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Well, I just said that I was correcting other people's grammar like, it was my job.

[Robert]

So I was real concerned that those. Those backwards people I lived with were really not connecting enough with the history of the moon. And I would write these pamphlets all the time about any given subject. Like, I would go. I would be like, this week, foxes. And I would look up everything I knew about foxes and write pamphlets. And so part of me was like, I almost wish we could find out that this cheese pamphlet was not the scholarly work that it has been interpreted as, but was just some, like, nerdy dork of a child who was like, I love cheese.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So funny. I did not read this whole book. I think it was 112 pages long, if I remember correctly. And as much as I would have loved to have read 112 pages about cheese, I had work to do, and I was already running behind. But one of the things that I read that was sort of announcing that this work had been digitized, said the parts of it are really gross, and I kind of want to, in a day when I am not quite so on deadline. Go back and find out what the. What the gross parts were of the cheese book.

[Robert]

That sounds great.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I can imagine some things that they could have been and some of them might be things that might not faze me at all. So I'm curious. Yeah, like, you know, Rennet. Rennet.

[Robert]

The various microorganisms that you gotta have in the works. You know, the mold. That's part of the deal. There are things about cheese that people find squeamish making that. I'm like, no, that's where cheese comes from.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Cheese is milk that has been spoiled in a controlled way.

[Robert]

Right, right. And it's delicious.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I love it too.

[Robert]

Love cheese. I really liked our adult discussion of the Bayou Tapestry, mostly because it once again brings to mind the tapestry made by the spiders of Tarantula on 6 on Futurama. There's an episode of Futurama where Zapp Brannigan and the Earth military have invaded Tarantula on six. And as they are invading this planet that has made no aggressive moves towards humans, the spiders that live there are actually spinning this tapestry as everything is playing out and it ends up in a museum. But it makes me. It's a joke about the Bayou Tapestry. And I think about it every time a Bayou tapestry comes up in our work. Except there are no penises on that one, to the best of my knowledge.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I don't know if it still exists, but there used to be, you know, a thing that you could go to online and it was like a Bayou Tapestry generator. And you could pick little elements from the tapestry, which is really embroidery, but. And you could, like put in words in the sort of font that it uses, and you could make your own little images things. And very early in our time on the podcast, you and I were struggling because we were getting a lot of negative feedback, to put it generously. And someone made us one of these that I can't quote because it had a swear word in it, but it was basically saying, tracy and Holly say quit complaining, using various Bayou Tapestry pieces and the font. And it was very charming and I loved it. And I would periodically go over there and make myself little pictures to amuse myself. And then at some point it wasn't working anymore. And I have not thought of that for years until just now. Me either.

[Robert]

But now you remind me of how. Because that was a non delightful time in our careers. I had written in my big Honkin date book, which I have talked about many times because I always love to keep multiple calendars. Like I had gone forward like Six months and picked a date six months from the day that I was writing it that said, if it still sucks, it's okay to quit now.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Robert]

And, like, I had given it six months of, like, this is what I think I can handle. And by that time, I was like, oh, everything's fine. It's fine, fine.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We'll just keep going. You told me that before.

[Robert]

Yeah, it's okay. Okay.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And now here it is more than 10 years later.

[Robert]

So many more than 10 years later, Tracy. Like, we're on, what, 13?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

12 years. 12. Or. I think it was 2013 when you and I joined. Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Robert]

I did my first episode in 2012.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. You were prepping. Because I was gonna be on a vacation, and I was joining after I got back from the vacation.

[Robert]

Yes. And I was filling in for deblina while she was out.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. So, yeah, long time. We've been doing this show.

[Robert]

We made it more than six months. It's fine.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, we made it through that first period. I had another period that I was struggling, not because of this podcast. Before my job became only this podcast, there was a period of years where I was basically doing multiple jobs, and that part got really hard before I realized I needed to say that I needed to only have one job.

[Robert]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And I had a cat calendar on my wall, and I had some of those little circle stickers in different colors that you can get in office supply stores. And I was basically marking the calendar. Like, the really bad days, I was marking on the calendar so I could actually see, like, how often is the day really bad? Because sometimes when you have a couple or three really bad days in a row, it feels like you have been in a bad time forever? And it just helped me see, okay, like, is it that my job is awful every day, or is that I'm having one hard day every week and it feels like it's perpetual? And that helped me just keep things in perspective and also helped me realize, yes, it is time for me to talk to my managers about only having one job now, which helped a lot of things.

[Robert]

Yeah. I seem to never quite get to only one job.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Robert]

Every time I think I have something else pops up and it's like, something up. And I'll be like, yeah, that's fine.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

A new thing's happened. You also host an entire additional show in addition to this one. I do.

[Robert]

And then occasional other shows.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Robert]

And then just, you know, other stuff as it comes up.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

My additional thing now is being a shop steward in the I Heart Podcast. Union which just to be clear, you are not part of because you are classified as in management because of these other things that you also do right. That is not. That is not a whole additional job and it is something that I am happy to do so anyway.

[Holly Fry]

Time for a sofa upgrade? Visit washablesofas.com and discover Annabe where designer style meets budget friendly prices with sofas starting at $699, Annabe brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anibe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquid simply slides right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space today with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com Offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Robert]

Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos, but now the old gays pull back back the curtain on their brand new podcast, Silver Linings with the Old Gays, brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Veeve Healthcare. With over 300 years of experience between them, hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Jesse serve four lifetimes of wisdom when it comes to love, sex, community and whatever else they've got on the gay agenda. Listen in to these fabulous friends, swap stories exploring how queer life has evolved over the decades and the silver linings they've collected along the way. Each episode dives into hot topics from safe sex and online dating to untangling Gen Z lingo, as well as insights on how music, art and fashion show up in queer culture. So check out Silver Linings, a show about how pride ages like fine wine. Available on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Mick]

Kelly Harnett spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit.

[Bill]

I'm 100% innocent.

[Mick]

While behind bars, she learned the law from scratch because.

[Bill]

Oh God. Harnett jailhouse lawyer.

[Mick]

And as she fought for herself, she also became a lifeline for the women locked up alongside her.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

You're supposed to have your faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her.

[Mick]

So many of these women had lived the same stories.

[Bill]

I said, were you a victim of domestic violence?

[Mick]

And she was like, yeah, but maybe Kelly could change the ending.

[Bill]

I said, how many people have gotten other incarcerated individuals out of here? I'm gonna be the first one to do that.

[Mick]

This is the story of Kelly Harnett, a woman who spent 12 years in fighting not just for her own freedom, but her girlfriend's too.

[Bill]

I think I have a mission from God to save souls by getting people out of prison.

[Mick]

The Girlfriends Jailhouse Lawyer listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jesse]

My Uncle Chris is definitely somebody worth talking about. He was the kind of guy that lived in a trailer with an ex con and a retired stripper, left loaded machine guns laying around, drank a bottle of whiskey a night, claimed he could kill a man with his bare hands, drove a garbage truck for a living, spoke fluent Spanish with a thick southern accent, and is currently buried in a crypt alongside the founding families of Panama. Listen to the Uncle Chris podcast to hear all about him and a whole lot more. Wild stories about adventure, romance, crime, history and war intertwine as I share the tall tales and hard truths that have helped me understand Uncle Chris. This collection of stories will make you laugh, it'll make you cry, and if I do my job right, they'll let you see the world and your place in it in a whole new way. I can't wait to tell you all about Uncle Chris. Listen now to Uncle Chris on Will Ferrell's Big Money Players Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I don't know if I have anything else to say about Unearthed except as I expressed to you, I had a hard time getting through this one. Not because of the unearthness. Whenever I say that I think people get a little worried that there might not be Unearthed anymore because it's a lot of people's very favorite episodes. This is the first thing that I worked on after taking a couple of weeks off to do some family related stuff and the combination of needing to get back into this type of work rather than the work I was doing at my parents home, that was a process. And then also the times that we were living in continued to be what they are while I was working on it. And it just meant that by the time that I was getting to the end of it I was like we have got to get this thing done because we are Recording it in the morning. Yeah.

[Robert]

You did the Holly Fry method, although you did not email it to me at 2am, which I often do to you.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

No. So only a handful of people might know what this is about. Last night was the night that an episode of Game Changer was coming out that folks had been strongly suggested to watch as close as possible after it's airing. So I had a 7pm Eastern Time deadline and I stopped working at like 6:30 and 8 dumplings that my husband have made that are made by a local company. My husband had cooked them and then we watched Game Changer.

[Robert]

So yeah, I. I'm gonna say a controversial thing.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Robert]

I don't even know how to word this. I feel like in some ways I'm not really saying what I'm about to say.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Robert]

Because it sounds like I'm like some sort of labor monster. But in some ways I feel like vacations should be illegal. Not really. I want to take time off, but there needs to be like an on ramp period when you come back because.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh yeah, I can't switch.

[Robert]

Like when people tell me like, oh, I'm back from vacation, I'm refreshed, I'm ready for work. I'm like, what is that?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Like, I have never.

[Robert]

Like when I was in school, I kept trying to like make the case that we shouldn't have spring break. We should just end the school year a week earlier. Because that last month or whatever you come back from spring break felt torturous to me. Like I could not get my brain to play nice. It was so hard to focus. And I have that when I come back from vacation. Cause I'm like, this is joy. This is how we all should be living all the time. And then. Which is, I mean, I'm very lucky to have the job I have. Please, you know, don't anyone think that I'm saying otherwise, but I just like, I wish there were a magical way where we could not have a struggle bus to get back into work when we come back from vacation.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. Well, I have for sure had vacations where I did come back like refreshed and re energized.

[Robert]

How does that work? Never in my life. Never in my life.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. And a couple of times this is like, it's been that when I, when the vacation happened, like I really needed a break. And I also needed some time to sort of think about, okay, what is valuable to me, what is valuable to me at work. How do I make sure that my time at work feels like something that is valuable to me, which I understand is something that a lot of people like, don't necessarily have at their jobs. And so there have been times that I have taken a vacation. And when I left for vacation, I was feeling tired and stuck. And when I came back, I was like, okay, I have renewed my love and enjoyment of what I do. This recent time off was not that at all. Because I was. I went from doing the work that we do of this at this job to doing caregiving work and domestic work at my parents house. So it was like I went from one kind of work to a different kind of work. And then I came back to the type of work that I more often do and like, kind of floundered. I was like, wait, how? How does my life. And I also got a brand new computer that I arrived like immediately before I took two weeks off. And that threw a whole other wrench into the works.

[Robert]

Yeah, I never come back feeling refreshed and renewed. I come back and I'm like, you.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Lost your rhythm of what happens?

[Robert]

I have to figure this out all over again.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, I do.

[Robert]

I think that's it. And there's no solve for it. I'm fine. Like, I've obviously pieced together, you know, enough other brainwaves that my missing ones are okay. That's another very subtle Futurama reference, by the way. But yeah, it's always a struggle for me. Yeah, I can't. And to the point where it has gotten easier for me to continue to work on vacation than to completely separate the two. Which I know is not great either. But it's like, you gotta keep your hand in or I will literally sit down when I get back and go, how do books work? I don't even know how to do anything anymore. It's very weird. Anyway, I don't really think vacation should be illegal. I think vacation should be more all the time. I think we should live Jetson style, where everyone works three hours a day, two days a week. I think that'd be great.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Robert]

It's not realistic right now, but I.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Wish we lived in a society that valued rest more than it does. Yeah, that's how I feel. Yeah. Anyway, if you'd like to send us a note about this or any other podcast for history [e-mail] we'll be back tomorrow with a Saturday classic. We will have something brand new on Monday. Stuff you missed in history class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite show.

[Robert]

At T. Rowe Price. Their experience helps them see investment potential differently. Instead of quick answers, they know that what really leads to confident investing is true curiosity. And since you're listening to this podcast, we know you value curiosity too. It's what drives them to ask the questions that really matter in our ever changing world, like can healthcare innovations create a healthier world? And how will AI be a part of a new tomorrow? Just like you, their curiosity runs deep and with it comes the power. Power to help you invest more confidently. Better questions, better outcomes. T. Rowe Price Learn more attrowprice.com Curiosity.

[Bill]

Every case that is a cold case.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

That has DNA right now in a backlog will be identified in our lifetime.

[Holly Fry]

On the new podcast America's Crime Lab. Every case has a story to tell.

[Robert]

And the DNA holds the truth. He never thought he was going to get caught and I just looked at my computer screen, I was just like, ah, gotcha. This technology is already solving so many cases.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to America's Crime Lab on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Join iHeartRadio and Sarah Spain in celebrating the one year anniversary of iHeart Women's Sports with powerful interviews and insider analysis. Our shows have connected fans with the heart of women's Sports. In just one year, the network has launched 5015 shows and built a community united by passion podcasts that amplify the voices of women in sports. Thank you for supporting iHeart Women's Sports and our founding sponsors ELF Beauty, Capital One and Novartis. Just open the free iHeart app and search iHeart Women's Sports to listen now.

[Mick]

The Girlfriends is back with a new season and this time I'm telling you the story of Kelly Harnett. Kelly spent over a decade in prison for a murder she says she didn't commit. As she fought for her freedom, she taught herself the law.

[Bill]

He goes, oh God. Harnett Jailhouse Lawyer and became a beacon.

[Mick]

Of hope for the women locked up alongside her.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

You're supposed to have your faith in God, but I had nothing but faith in her.

[Bill]

I think I was put here to save souls by getting people out of prison.

[Mick]

The Girlfriends Jailhouse Lawyer listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This is an iHeart podcast.