Behind the Scenes Minis: Helen and Ada

Summary

Behind the Scenes Minis: Helen and Ada Stuff You Missed in History Class – Released February 7, 2025

Hosts: Holly Fry and Tracy B. Wilson
Producer: iHeartPodcasts

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1. Introduction to Helen McNichol and Ada Coleman

The episode opens with Tracy B. Wilson expressing her enthusiasm for Impressionist art and highlighting the significant roles played by women artists like Helen McNichol and Dorothea Sharp. Tracy emphasizes the importance of these women carving out spaces for themselves in a male-dominated world.

Tracy B. Wilson [02:23]: "I love that she and Dorothea Sharp made a space for themselves in a world that was not really amenable to women living on their own."

2. Researching Helen McNichol: Challenges and Insights

Holly and Tracy discuss the difficulties encountered while researching Helen McNichol. Due to the scarcity of detailed personal records, it was challenging to paint a comprehensive picture of McNichol's life and personality. Tracy speculates that undiscovered letters or diaries might offer deeper insights into McNichol's thoughts, including her views on the suffrage movement.

Tracy B. Wilson [02:56]: "It was a challenging episode to work on because there's just not a lot of information about details that would be really helpful to know more about for an episode like this."

3. The Fluidity of Artistic Movements: Impressionism’s Spread

Holly delves into the complexities of defining historical timelines, particularly with artistic movements like Impressionism. She points out that while the Renaissance had a defined period in certain regions, its influence rippled differently across the globe.

Holly Fry [06:03]: "We lose our ability to recognize the wiggly ness of the timeline... in some places, but other places we're still working it out."

Tracy adds that Canadian Impressionism emerged later than its French counterpart, underlining the regional variations in adopting and adapting artistic styles.

Tracy B. Wilson [07:15]: "Impressionism became popularized in Canada so much later than in France."

4. Ada Coleman and the American Bar: A Legacy in Mixology

The conversation shifts to Ada Coleman, the renowned bartender at the American Bar in London. Holly and Tracy discuss Coleman's charm, her ability to build lasting relationships with patrons, and her significant impact on the bar’s reputation.

Tracy B. Wilson [17:19]: "I love looking at pictures of the same essential scene that she did and that Dorothea Sharpe did and kind of comparing how they're similar and how they're different."

Tracy highlights the personal connections Ada fostered, noting that some patrons left her money in their wills, a testament to her influence and friendship qualities.

5. Addressing Historical Injustices in the Hospitality Industry

Tracy expresses her frustration with a 1905 report from the Joint Committee on the Employment of Barmaids, which condescendingly compared the struggles of white barmaids to those of enslaved Black individuals. She vehemently condemns the flawed and racist perspectives presented in historical documents.

Tracy B. Wilson [14:19]: "Anytime you see that in a document, whether modern or old, please know it's wrong. That just made my blood boil when I was reading."

6. The Role of ADA and Advocacy for Women in Bartending

The hosts critique the outdated notion that women should exit the bartending profession due to harsh conditions, instead advocating for protective legislation. They commend Ada Coleman’s role in challenging societal norms and promoting a dignified image of bartending.

Tracy B. Wilson [17:19]: "Why are you saying that women should get out rather than men making laws that would protect them?"

7. Modern-Day Relevance: Inclusive Mixology

Holly appreciates the American Bar’s current menu, which offers both alcoholic and mocktail versions of their drinks. This inclusive approach ensures that all patrons, regardless of their choice to consume alcohol, can enjoy sophisticated beverages.

Holly Fry [17:19]: "It's nice to remember that those people deserve to have fun times in a bar as well. It doesn't have to be about being intoxicated, but tasting delicious things."

8. Conclusion: Celebrating Helen and Ada’s Contributions

The episode concludes with reflections on the enduring legacies of Helen McNichol and Ada Coleman. Tracy expresses her commitment to supporting ADA's projects and encourages listeners to explore more about these influential women.

Tracy B. Wilson [21:55]: "We hope that you do get some rest and relaxation and that everyone is kind to one another. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic story and then on Monday we will have a brand new episode."

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Notable Quotes:

• Tracy B. Wilson [02:20]: "I love the women artists. And I love that she and Dorothea Sharp made a space for themselves in a world that was not really amenable to women living on their own."

• Holly Fry [06:03]: "It's important to remember when studying anything historical is where they're from is a really important part of where they fit into that bigger artistic timeline."

• Tracy B. Wilson [14:19]: "Anytime you see that in a document, whether modern or old, please know it's wrong."

• Holly Fry [17:19]: "They're like, here's the alcoholic version, here's the mocktail version... it's nice to remember that those people deserve to have fun times in a bar as well."

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This episode offers an engaging exploration of two remarkable women who navigated and shaped their respective fields amidst societal challenges. Through thoughtful discussions and insightful critiques, Holly and Tracy shed light on the historical contexts that influenced Helen McNichol and Ada Coleman’s lives and work.

Transcript

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[Maria Tremarke]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarke]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover.

[Holly Fry]

The secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarke]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Osvar Loshen]

Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On tech stuff, we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok to ask burning questions about technology, from high tech to low culture, and everywhere in between. Join us. Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A.J. Jacobs]

Dressing. Dressing.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, French dressing.

[A.J. Jacobs]

Exactly.

[Holly Fry]

Ah, that's good.

[A.J. Jacobs]

I'm A.J. jacobs, and my current obsession is puzzles. And that has given birth to my podcast, the Puzzler.

[Holly Fry]

Something about Mary Poppins?

[A.J. Jacobs]

Exactly.

[Holly Fry]

This is fun.

[A.J. Jacobs]

You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Boy, did I love talking about Helen McNichol this week. Yeah, number one. I think it's probably clear to listeners that have been listening for a long time. I love impressionist art.

[Holly Fry]

Just.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I love it. And I love the women artists. And I love that she and Dorothea Sharp made a space for themselves in a world that was not really amenable to women living on Their own. Without husbands.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Or, you know, outside of their family life for, you know, specifically white, middle class, upper middle class, in the case of Helen McNichol women. I love all of that. It was a challenging episode to work on because there's just not a lot of information about details that would be really helpful to know more about for an episode like this.

[Holly Fry]

Those are always tricky because it's like, you can know what people have said about them, particularly, you know, in the intervening years. We are recording one coming up that I researched that's very similar in that regard. And it's like. But what was she like?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right, right. Well, and she lived. I mean, she died more than a century ago, but that's still recent enough and her, you know, family was large enough that there may be, you know, other remembrances, maybe even letters and diaries and things that just haven't been made available to historians or art historians. Like. So it's like, it's possible that there is more information about her, but having kind of a big gap in things like what she was like as a person, what her thoughts were on things like the suffrage movement. There was also a ton of stuff that we could have gotten into in this episode but didn't like the role of the railroads and Canadian Pacific Railway in particular in Canadian history. Like, hugely, monumentally impactful on Canada as a nation and on the indigenous peoples of Canada. And, like, that was so far removed from the episode's core that I just. I did not get into it really, at all. But, boy, I love all of her art. And I wish I had a little time machine and could have gone to that exhibit that just closed a couple of weeks before researching this episode.

[Holly Fry]

Always a trick. Always a trick.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yes, definitely. So there are some really lovely, you know, exhibition catalogs that have, you know, lovely representations, recreations, prints. What am I signing? You know what I'm saying?

[Holly Fry]

Reprints of her work.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yes. I just lost all ability to have language.

[Holly Fry]

Sometimes it happens.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I don't have much to say beyond just sort of gushing that I love her. I love her artwork. I love looking at pictures of the same essential scene that she did and that Dorothea Sharpe did and kind of comparing how they're similar and how they're different.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. One of the things that I really liked, we. We only talked about it briefly, but it is important to remember, particularly when studying really anything historical, but it does specifically relate a lot to things like art history and similar creative histories, is that we tend, when discussing history, and I say we meaning, like, humans in general, when we're talking about, particularly once it gets past a certain point, it's like we lose our ability to recognize the wiggly ness of the timeline. And it'll be like, the Renaissance happened from this to this. And it's like, well, in some places, but other places we're still working it out.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

Like, well after it, or they came into it later. And this is a good example of how, you know, Impressionism was kind of like, cool, cool, cool. We got it in France and in Canada, it was still like, this is new. I always think that's important to remember when you're looking at anybody's work is where they're from is a really important part of where they fit into that bigger artistic timeline.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right, right. Anytime we're talking about things like Impressionism or the Renaissance, like in some cases there's been, you know, a sort of manifesto of artists saying, this is what we are doing as artists, that becomes kind of a foundational text to the movement. But sometimes it's the process of looking back onto that time and trying to make sense of it and having a name for something as a movement. And that means there's a whole lot of stuff that was going on at that time that doesn't fit into that descriptor, similarly to what you were saying and the fact that Impressionism became popularized in Canada so much later than in France. One of the articles that I was reading about it was like, I'm not trying to characterize Canadian art as like a sleepy backwater.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Because there was others. Like there was other stuff happening in Canadian art, other. Other people, other movements. Canada itself, a young nation as a nation at that point. But it did, you know, become kind of a later entry into this movement than a lot of other. Similarly connected to, you know, the art world of Europe and specifically Paris. So anyway, art, we always love it. We do. I will also confess that when I was deciding about things to cover on Unearthed, I had no concept of what the BBC TV show Fake or Fortune is about beyond the title and the fact that they authenticated this painting. It is not like a British counterpart to Antiques Roadshow. And I think there is an Antiques Roadshow in.

[Holly Fry]

Didn't it start in Britain?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I don't remember. I'm not sure my association with Antiques Roadshow is watching it at my parents house. But Faker Fortune is more like it's all about art authentication. It is not people finding a piece of art in their attic and saying, authenticate this. In a lot of cases, a lot of cases, it's like looking back at big questions about the authenticity of different pieces of artwork. So my ignorance about this TV show was a part of my decision about whether to put this find into Unearthed, but the bigger piece was I just want to do a whole episode about Helen McNichol because I was immediately captivated.

[Osvar Loshen]

Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? I'm Osvar Loshen, one of the new hosts of the long running podcast Tech Stuff. I'm slightly skeptical but obsessively intrigued.

[Cara Price]

And I'm Cara Price, the other new host, and I'm ready to adopt early.

[Osvar Loshen]

And often on Tech Stuff. We travel all the way from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars to the dark corner corners of TikTok to ask and attempt to answer burning questions about technology.

[Holly Fry]

One of the kind of tricks for surviving Mars is to live there long.

[A.J. Jacobs]

Enough so that people evolve into Martians.

[Holly Fry]

Like data is a very rough proxy.

[Cara Price]

For a complex reality.

[Katherine Legge]

How is it possible that the world's.

[Osvar Loshen]

New energy revolution can be based in.

[Holly Fry]

This place where there's no electricity at night?

[Cara Price]

Oz and I will cut through the noise to bring you the best conversations and deep dives that will help you understand how tech is changing our world and what you need to know to survive the singularity.

[Osvar Loshen]

So join us, Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarke]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarke]

Each season we explore a new theme, everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Maria Tremarke]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Holly Fry]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Maria Tremarke]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Cara Price]

Hey you guys, I'm Katherine Legge. I'm a racing driver who's literally driven everything with four wheels across the planet, and I've got a new podcast. It's called Throttle Therapy. This season, I'm gearing up to make history, competing in some of the world's most notorious, notorious racing events, starting at the Indy 500. Join me as I travel from racetrack to racetrack in my quest to continue a memorable career in racing. I'm also going to bring you inside stories with legends of sports, new faces from the next generation of auto racing, and conversations with the people who've supported me throughout my career. We'll be getting into everything from karting to nascar, even Formula one. Whether you dream about being a pro athlete or or an astronaut, we're talking about what it takes to make it. Listen to Throttle Therapy with Katherine Legg, an iHeart women's sports production in partnership with Deep Blue Sports and Entertainment. You can find us on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Presented by Capital One, founding partner of iHeart Women's Sports.

[Holly Fry]

Hey, it's Alec Baldwin. This season on my podcast, here's the Thing, I speak with musician, photographer, and philanthropist Julian Lennon.

[Katherine Legge]

One of the really important things that happened to me in my relationship with photography and the images was that I would have people write to me, people that couldn't financially afford to travel the world or go anywhere, couldn't or were disabled and couldn't travel the world or go anywhere. And what they had all said to me is that you bring these stories to us, you bring the truth, you bring life to us of cultures that we would never necessarily know anything. Photography really does allow me to do that. Have empathy for people on the other side of the world that you'll never, ever meet, but you'll at least have some understanding of what their life is and what they went through or are still going through.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to the new season of here's the thing on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Okay, I'm gonna get it out of.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The way and get the yucky thing.

[Holly Fry]

Out so we can get to talking about other stuff. In that 1905 report from the Joint Committee on the Employment of Barmaids, they do the thing that we have talked about many times on the show that I absolutely hate, and you do, too. I know I'm paraphrasing, but it basically is like white barmaids actually have it much worse than black enslaved people because they don't have a. They're. They're just stuck in this job and they're going to age out of it. And those people get treated better. It's like one of those horrible things. Just as a reminder to any of our listeners, anytime you see that in a document, whether modern or old, please know it's wrong. That's all. It just made my blood boil when I was reading. I was, like, so angry. I didn't even want to put it in the episode. There are a lot of cool things about American bar and the Savoy. One of which is that it was incredibly popular during World War II because Winston Churchill would kind of like, headquarter there a little bit. Because the Savoy, we talked about how it was ultra modern and had electricity before buildings normally did, et cetera. They had built their own power supply. So when there were bombing raids or. And, you know, the Germans bombed London, it was more likely to maintain power than any of the other buildings, which is very cool. Yeah, listen, I trash talked Craddock a little bit here. He's very interesting in his own right. Heaven knows I've made a lot of his drinks. He really did a lot to promote the idea of drinking mixed drinks and cocktails as an elevated experience and not about drunkenness. He literally wrote papers about it. He would write newspaper articles about it. He would offer himself up for interviews. And one of the things that kept happening, we mentioned ADA's four Ls, the people that would not allow the temperance movement to pass any loss in England at the time. But there were people in England that wanted temperance laws. And Craddock would always do this challenge and say, like, come to the bar. I will make you a cocktail along with, you know, whatever meal you order. And if you can honestly tell me that it did not enhance your enjoyment of the meal and of life, he would say, then we can have a talk about temperance. But I guarantee you're gonna love it. And almost. And as far as I know, every time they did or they didn't take the challenge. Cause they probably knew, but it was just kind of interesting. He was a big proponent of it. I am very delighted to see that American bar's current menu. And I haven't gone back through all of their. Their previous menus, but there are not all of the drinks, but a lot of their drinks. They're like, here's the alcoholic version, here's the mocktail version.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Nice.

[Holly Fry]

Which is really cool and something that I am a big fan of, because sometimes people want to have the elevated experience of a delicious mixed beverage. And they don't drink alcohol for any number of completely fine reasons. So it's nice to remember that those people deserve to have fun times in a bar as well. It doesn't have to be about being intoxicated, but tasting delicious things. There is only one picture of Ada Coleman that I know of and it would have been fairly late in her career because she looks, you know, a bit more on the mature side at that point. And she looks so sweet and I just. She just has this great very. She's cute as a button and she has this very pleasant expression. And I can see why probably people immediately gravitated toward her and wanted to spend time with her. In addition to being their bartender, but also as their friend. There are a lot of stories of people who she served becoming her friends and in some cases including her in their wills and leaving her significant amounts of money, which is pretty interesting. I'm always fascinated by the relationship between bartenders and their patrons because often there's like a weird parasocial thing that goes on. I just find the whole thing interesting. I want there to be a wild number of studies done of it, which is probably not going to happen to the degree I would desire. But I have not been to American Bar. It's on my list. One more excuse to go to London.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I have only been to places that were called American Bar that are not that one.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, there are a number of them and there were a number of them in Europe, as we said in the show, that did not rise to prominence. And some of them were just like the way you would say you would see noodle bar on a menu. Right. That is not the name of the establishment, but says what it is. Some of them were like that that just said that and this one took on the name. I'm honestly not 100% clear if that was always intended to be its name or not, but there it is, one of the most famous bars in the world. You can, I feel like we should also say, we mentioned two very pricey drinks that are on the menu. They have their regular themed menu. The drinks are not cheap, but they're not that exorbitant either. They're like in the. I think, I feel like I'm going by memory here. The mocktails tended to be in the 18 pound range, which is pricey, but, you know, not 5,000, that's for sure. And then the cocktails tended to be like in the 27 to 35 range, depending on the spirit. So expensive for sure, but also not like quite as eye popping as a $5,000 drink. Yeah, this was a very fun one to research because as much as I hated how Condescending that report was. I liked picking it apart and reading it being like you digg a links. All of these problems are problems that are not caused by the women in the bartending industry. Why are you saying that women should get out rather than men making laws that would protect them? Why is that the way you want to make legislation? Why not protective legislation? Obviously they they never passed that because women have stayed in the bartending industry and in in the bar maid as they were called. Then again because they were usually aged out pretty when they would, you know, not be considered a young maid anymore. But I'm glad we have ADA to to guide us. I love love the ADA Colvin project. I think it's so cool. Yeah. So I will follow it in the ongoing years and see how it does and see if I can support it in some way. Anyway, that is that is that if you are coming up on your weekend and you like to have a cocktail or mocktail, I hope you find one that is absolutely delicious and delights your palate and taste buds. If you don't have time off, maybe you could still sneak in something yummy to drink, whether that contains alcohol or not. But we hope that you do get some rest and relaxation and that everyone is kind to one another. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic story and then on Monday we will have a brand new episode.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Maria Tremarke]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarke]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover.

[Holly Fry]

The secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarke]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Osvar Loshen]

Do you want to see into the future? Do you want to understand an invisible force that's shaping your life? Do you want to experience the frontiers of what makes us human? On tech stuff we travel from the mines of Congo to the surface of Mars, from conversations with Nobel Prize winners to the depths of TikTok to ask burning questions about technology, from high tech to low culture and everywhere in between. Join us. Listen to tech stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[A.J. Jacobs]

Dressing. Dressing.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, French dressing.

[A.J. Jacobs]

Exactly.

[Holly Fry]

That's good.

[A.J. Jacobs]

I'm A.J. jacobs, and my current obsession is puzzles, and that has given birth to my podcast the Puzzler.

[Holly Fry]

Something about Mary Poppins.

[A.J. Jacobs]

Exactly.

[Holly Fry]

This is fun.

[A.J. Jacobs]

You can get your daily puzzle nuggets delivered straight to your ears. Listen to the Puzzler every day on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Paola Pedrosa]

Welcome. My name is Paola Pedrosa, a medium and the host of the Ghost Therapy podcast, where it's not just about connecting with deceased loved ones. It's about learning through them and their new perspective. I think God sent me this gift so I can show it to the world. And most of all, I help people every single day. Listen to the Ghost Therapy podcast on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.