Behind the Scenes Minis: Law and Medicine

Summary

Summary of "Behind the Scenes Minis: Law and Medicine" Episode

Podcast Information:

• Title: Stuff You Missed in History Class
• Host/Author: iHeartPodcasts
• Description: Join Holly and Tracy as they bring you the greatest and strangest Stuff You Missed In History Class in this podcast by iHeartRadio.
• Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Law and Medicine
• Release Date: February 14, 2025

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Introduction

In the "Behind the Scenes Minis: Law and Medicine" episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, hosts Holly Fry and Tracy B. Wilson delve into the intricate interplay between legal frameworks and medical advancements in American history. The episode, released on February 14, 2025, offers listeners a nuanced exploration of pivotal legal cases and influential medical professionals, shedding light on how law has shaped medical practice and vice versa.

Discussion on United States v. Wong Kim Ark

The episode begins with a deep dive into the landmark Supreme Court case United States v. Wong Kim Ark. Tracy discusses the complexities of keeping up with ongoing legal debates surrounding the case, emphasizing the challenges posed by the rapid influx of new commentaries and legal arguments.

• Tracy B. Wilson [02:23]: "We could not keep up with everything about it as I was researching it."

Holly and Tracy highlight the case's significance in affirming birthright citizenship under the 14th Amendment, particularly in the context of increasing racial tensions and legal precedents that were not always supportive of equality.

• Holly Fry [04:04]: "They know that this is something that not everybody sides with, and they want to be able to protect people with just a mass of paperwork and precedent examples."

Supreme Court's Racial Context and Justices' Roles

A substantial portion of the discussion centers on the Supreme Court's historical stance on racial issues, especially how past justices influenced decisions that impacted civil rights.

• Tracy B. Wilson [05:17]: "While I do not necessarily like the content of old Supreme Court decisions, sometimes I do like reading the old Supreme Court decisions."

The hosts examine the role of Justice John Marshall Harlan, known for his dissents in cases unfavorable to racial equality, contrasting him with Justice Stephen J. Field, who some sources suggest supported birthright citizenship. They explore the complexities and possible inconsistencies in these justices' stances.

• Tracy B. Wilson [05:43]: "It was not a situation where I could go and look up the entire scope of his previous career as a Supreme Court Justice."

Historical Comparisons: Plessy v. Ferguson and Chae Chong Ping v. United States

Tracy draws parallels between Wong Kim Ark and other significant cases like Plessy v. Ferguson, which upheld racial segregation, and Chae Chong Ping v. United States. These comparisons underscore the Court's evolving, yet often contradictory, interpretations of the Constitution regarding race and citizenship.

• Tracy B. Wilson [07:34]: "Like, Plessy versus Ferguson, establishing that segregation was constitutional, like, that was also part of, I think, the same court."

Influential Medical Figures: Daniel Hale Williams and Vivian Thomas

Transitioning to the medicine sector, Holly and Tracy explore the lives and contributions of pioneering African American medical professionals. They focus on Daniel Hale Williams III, one of the first black surgeons to perform open-heart surgery, and Vivian Thomas, a surgical technician who made significant strides in medical procedures despite not holding a formal medical degree.

• Tracy B. Wilson [15:56]: "There are several books about him that are children's books. A couple of them have the name Dr. Dan in the title."

The hosts discuss the challenges Williams faced during his career, including racial segregation and professional opposition, drawing comparisons to Vivian Thomas's later experiences in a more explicitly segregated era.

• Tracy B. Wilson [18:56]: "Vivian Thomas came along decades later and is kind of an example of how, like, shifts in the world and segregation specifically."

Research Challenges and Historical Bias

Tracy emphasizes the difficulties in researching historical figures like Williams, noting the scarcity of first-person accounts and the prevalence of biased narratives that often overshadow factual histories.

• Tracy B. Wilson [22:52]: "I wish I had had more, like, first person accounts of what Daniel Hill Williams life was like, what his relationship with his mother was like."

The discussion includes an analysis of Helen Buckler's 1954 biography of Williams, highlighting the racial barriers she faced while researching a black surgeon and the subsequent challenges in publishing accurate historical accounts.

• Tracy B. Wilson [17:09]: "The forward of this book is really interesting because it talks about her own experiences of basically crossing a color barrier to learn about him."

Personal Reflections and Ethical Considerations

Holly and Tracy share personal insights into the ethical dilemmas faced by medical professionals within the legal system, touching upon the necessity of impartial legal representation regardless of a person's actions.

• Tracy B. Wilson [10:14]: "Everyone is entitled to competent legal representation no matter what they have done."

They reflect on the tension between personal beliefs and professional obligations, illustrating how legal requirements often necessitate a detached approach to justice.

Closing Thoughts

In concluding the episode, Holly and Tracy reiterate the importance of understanding the historical context of legal and medical advancements. They emphasize the enduring impact of past decisions on present-day practices and societal norms.

• Tracy B. Wilson [33:58]: "We are recording all these at least two weeks ahead of when the weekend is coming. So I have no idea what's happening in the world on this Friday of our Friday behind the Scenes."

They tease upcoming episodes, including a Saturday Classic segment on William Montague Cobb, promising continued exploration of influential figures who shaped American history.

Notable Quotes

• Tracy B. Wilson [03:53]: "Yeah. It's building a house on shifting sand. Like, there's always gonna be some key element that emerges that we didn't include."
• Holly Fry [08:27]: "Not that it would ever be a thing I could do, but every time we talk about the Supreme Court and a decision and dissenters, I just know I could never be a judge on the Supreme Court because I couldn't, like, go to work with those people the next day and be cool."
• Holly Fry [25:01]: "Emma Reynolds was. Graduated. Was accepted into that first class of nursing students. She graduated from the nursing program at Providen 1893. From there, she went on to Medical College of Chicago. And she earned a medical degree there in 1895."

Conclusion

The "Behind the Scenes Minis: Law and Medicine" episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class offers a comprehensive look at the intersection of legal decisions and medical progress in American history. Through thoughtful analysis and engaging dialogue, Holly and Tracy provide listeners with a deeper understanding of how historical contexts have shaped contemporary issues in law and medicine.

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Listen to the Episode: For those interested in exploring the full discussion, the episode is available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite podcasts.

Transcript

[Tracy B. Wilson]

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[Maria Tremarke]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarke]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover.

[Holly Fry]

The secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarke]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jess]

Yo, what up it's ya girl Jess. Hilarious. And I think it's time to acknowledge that I'm not just a comedian. It's time to add uncertified therapists to my credentials. Because each and every Wednesday I'm fixing your mess on Cafely Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Got problems in your relationship? Come to me. Your best friend acting shady? Come to me. Thought you was the father but you not come to me. I can't promise I won't judge you but I can guarantee that I will help you. Listen to carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King III and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives. Join us for heartfelt conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelowo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter.

[David Eagleman]

Listen to my legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

This is my legacy. Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Hello and happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And I'm we talked about United States vs Wong Kim Ark this week. We stressed that we could not keep up with everything about it as I was researching it.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. In terms of the current events related to this.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. It really felt like every single day there was new commentary, new arguments and new counterarguments, new everything. But then in addition to that, just a continual fire hose of stuff also happening. And I think any time there has been an episode like this one where there has been a specific reason that something felt urgent, it has also felt like there have been 50 other equally urgent things happening simultaneously. There is no way to do all 50 things. And then additionally, in the two weeks that pass. Ish. Two weeks approximately, that pass between researching and writing the episode and the episode actually coming out, 50 more things are going to happen. And then, like, exponential escalation of things involving what we were actually talking about. And it's one of the reasons why it is not that often that I decide to do an episode that's directly related to something that's happening in the news right now.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. It's building a house on shifting sand. Like, there's always gonna be some key element that emerges that we didn't include. Because you can't.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. While I do not necessarily like the content of old Supreme Court decisions, sometimes I do like reading the old Supreme Court decisions. Sometimes they just. They just include interesting things about, you know, the mindset of the time and the justices that were writing it. This particular one, though, the majority opinions, synopsis of what was happening previously. It goes on for so long. So long. And each case that it's talking about previously is maybe only a paragraph long. But I really struggled with. Felt like it was going on forever. And I was like, I want to get to the part where you're telling me about this case specifically. I understand what you're doing by building up the immense precedent that we are already talking about, but, like, can we fast forward a little bit?

[Holly Fry]

I imagine probably.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

It's exactly that. They know that this is something that not everybody sides with, and they want to be able to protect people with just a mass of paperwork and precedent examples.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

But it does sometimes make it difficult to actually get through the content of the decision.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

This was also not a court that was racially progressive in any way.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And it had other decisions that were really the opposite of this one in terms of talking about the ideas of things like equality. And one of the things that we've talked about before is John Marshall Harland, who became known as the great dissenter, writing dissenting opinions for some of these previous cases where the Court had taken a stance that was just, broadly speaking, not in favor of equality. And he had written just a scathing dissent of that that picked apart all of it. And then in this case, he also dissented. But this dissent was the descent of, no, this should not be. Should not be citizens for Chinese people. Obviously not. So, anyway, I find that interesting about him. I also had a little bit more in this episode originally about Justice Stephen J. Field. A couple of sources that I read framed him as being the only justice that had really expressed any kind of support for the idea of birthright citizenship. I don't actually know how accurate that is. Like, it was not a situation where I could go and look up the entire scope of his previous career as a Supreme Court Justice. But he was also a justice during some of the other cases that we talked about that did not seem. I was like, just. It does not seem like there were things that made it read almost like, yeah, he was the one person who was in favor of birthright citizenship, but he had other cases that he had.

[Holly Fry]

That were not that way.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, they were definitely not that way. Like, he was part of the majority in Plessy vs Ferguson, which upheld racial segregation. He was part of the majority in Chai Chong Ping versus the United States. We have. We have episodes about both of those. And you know that, like, Plessy versus Ferguson, establishing that. That segregation was constitutional, like, that was also part of, I think, the same court. Melville Fuller was definitely still the justice. So, anyway, that's been. One of the things that people have pointed out with this executive order was that, like, this case came before a court that had made a lot of pretty specifically racist interpretations of the Constitution. And even within that context was like, no, this is saying everyone is a citizen if they're born here, including Chinese people.

[Holly Fry]

Even people who probably didn't want to say that had to acknowledge it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

They had to do it.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Not that it would ever be a thing I could do, but every time we talk about the Supreme Court and a decision and dissenters, I just know I could never be a judge on the Supreme Court because I couldn't, like, go to work with those people the next day and be cool. I just couldn't. I know who I am, and it's not that. Yeah, I pretend that people that irritate me or make me angry at work don't exist anymore. It's not a good habit, but it's something that I just involuntarily do, so that wouldn't work.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, I think I have. I might have told this story on the podcast before. A friend of mine is a lawyer, and we have been friends starting from before he decided to change careers and go to law school. And while he was in law school, there was a case that was happening in the news in which a person's behavior had been odious and awful, and that person is still entitled to competent legal representation. That's sort of how that idea works. Everyone is entitled to competent legal representation no matter what they have done. My friend's spouse, who I am also friends with, I love them both dearly. They came into the room continuing a conversation on this subject that had started in the car, and it was clear that she was furious. And he was like, this is just how it has to work. And then said that, like, one of the things they learn in law school is that when you. If you try to talk about some of this with people who aren't lawyers, it's violently upsetting.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Because you, like, you have to train your brain to work in this way. That's about what the law says and what the Constitution says and not necessarily, like, what seems right to you, which.

[Holly Fry]

Is part of where I get hung up. I'm like, but that's messed up.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Anyway, I do not have enough grace in my heart for such things. It turns out. I get it fine. Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

That's why I'm spending a lot of time looking at plants for my mental health right now. Look at my garden plants.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I understand this. I like to take lots of walks.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. You do an out in nature thing. I do a bring nature inside thing.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Well, the reason we haven't done the bring nature inside thing at our house is when we have had. When we have tried to have plants, the cats have not used them as litter boxes, but they have liked to just pull things out of pots. Yeah. And our house is just not set up in a way that there's, like, places that plants can go that cats can't access. Right. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Anyway, plants which are gonna inform future episodes, just FYI.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I'm not sure what my next episode is. Of course, there are a million things that feel like are urgent to talk about on the show, but I do not have the fortitude to do urgent things all the time in a climate of a fire hose of horribleness, which is what is going on right now. So.

[David Eagleman]

This is David Eagleman, host of the science podcast Inner Cosmos. For Valentine's Day, we're diving into the question, what is love from the brain's point of view? What does love have to do with how you were raised? Or the symmetry of someone's face or the smell of their underarms? Why does the character of love change throughout our lives? Why is heartbreak like drug withdrawal? And what does any of this have to do with sweaty T shirts or rom coms or monogamous animals and the future of love and AI? Join me for this week's Inner Cosmos. For a deep dive into the neurobiology of love, listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Why would you do that to me when I thought we were friends?

[Jess]

We are friends.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Los Angeles, 2021. A friendly neighbor appears out of nowhere and promises to make all my dreams come true.

[Holly Fry]

Let's not forget that David Bloom was a professional con artist. So you didn't stand a chance.

[Caroline D'Amore]

But my dreams soon turned into a nightmare.

[David Eagleman]

Bloom generally targeted people with money, and.

[Caroline D'Amore]

I was not alone.

[David Eagleman]

He took over 100 people for over $15 million. One of the victims was his own grandmother.

[Holly Fry]

I was married to David for almost 10 years.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

It was insane.

[Holly Fry]

I was barely functioning. And I just had this realization that he will not stop until he kills me.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Getting a con artist to pay for their crimes isn't easy.

[Holly Fry]

Charge David Blue.

[Caroline D'Amore]

I'm Caroline D'Amore. Listen as I take down my scammer on Once Upon a con on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarke]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarke]

Each season, we explore a new theme. Everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Maria Tremarke]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching. To see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Holly Fry]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Maria Tremarke]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jess]

Yo, what up? It's your girl, Jess. Hilarious. And I think it's time to acknowledge that I'm not just a comedian. It's time to add uncertified therapists to my credentials because each and every Wednesday I'm fixing your mess on Carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast network. Got problems in your relationship? Come to me. Your best friend acting shady? Come to me. Thinking about cursing that one stank auntie out at the next family gathering. Do it, but come to me before you do because I cussed all mine out before you wanna fight your co workers, come to me. Baby daddy mad cause you got a boyfriend, come to me. Thought you was the father but you not come to me. I can't promise I won't judge you, but I can guarantee that I will help you As a daughter, a sister, a mother and an entrepreneur, I've learned a lot in life, so I'm using my own perspective and experiences to help you fix your mess. Send me your situation and let's fix it as a family. Listen to carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

One of our episodes this week was on Daniel Hale Williams, technically Daniel Hale Williams iii, but I think we only said the third part one time. There are several books about him that are children's books. A couple of them have the name Dr. Dan in the title. I only know of one full length biography for adults of him, and that was published by a white woman named Helen Buckler in 1954 using research that had started in the late 1940s. So when Buckler was researching this book, there were people still living who had personally known him. The forward of this book is really interesting because it talks about her own experiences of basically crossing a color barrier to learn about him and becoming more aware of her own privilege and her own ignorance while doing all of that. Apparently there were people so surprised that she was doing this research on a black surgeon that they assumed that she was a black person with very fair skin.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, how fascinating.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, so, like, really interesting to me, that part of it. So of course, if you go and you read this book, parts of it are gonna seem dated by today's standards and the language and how it talks about things. But like, to me, the fact that she was at a time of intense racial segregation and also backlash to the civil rights movement that she was doing this work. Montague Cobb, William Montague Cobb, who we've also talked about on the show, wrote a couple of different profiles of Daniel Hale Williams. That's one of the things that Cobb did, was write profiles of figures from black history. And in one of these he says that Buckler had started researching this biography because she was so fascinated with the idea that the first surgeon to do an open heart surgery was black. And then her own research revealed that there were earlier surgeries, that he wasn't actually the first one. And that when that happened, her publisher lost interest in it, if that's accurate. She did find another publisher fairly quickly after that. Cause the book came out originally in 1954. And then all of that led me to say we should do a Saturday classic of William Montague Cobb. Because it's been four entire years since that episode came out. And I would have said it was last year. I don't.

[Holly Fry]

I would have said it was last month.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I mean, all the time since 2020 has really, really blurred together. So anyway, that'll be coming up as a Saturday classic. I also found Daniel Hale Williams to be kind of an interesting comparison to Vivian Thomas, who we have talked about on the show before.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Vivian Thomas came along decades later and is kind of an example of how, like, shifts in the world and segregation specifically. Because Daniel Hale Williams was born before the Civil War, grew up during the Civil War. I have no idea what his experiences of the Civil War years were. Were like, lived through Reconstruction. When he went to medical school, it was at a time of escalating racial segregation and escalating violence against black people in black communities in response to basically the Reconstruction. Reconstruction's progress. But I think this is what enabled him to go to medical school and start practicing surgery. When he did. I didn't really find detail about whether, like, how many other black students there might have been at the school at the same time, what the process was like for him, whether the admissions people were aware of his race or anything like that.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

But it was like he went to school and started working at an era when there was somewhat more integration in Chicago. And then Chicago became increasingly more segregated in the face of, like, the great migration of black families out of the South. And then Vivian Thomas, much later, segregation, a lot more entrenched, a lot more explicitly spelled out in terms of laws and things. And, you know, Vivian Thomas also broke a lot of ground with surgery, but not as a surgeon, as a surgical technician. So I found those as two interesting things to. Or an interesting comparison to think about with the two of them.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, it is kind of fascinating that we go forward in time, but backwards in terms of ways to make things happen. I don't even wanna say opportunity. Cause it's not so much that as him making a path.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The like, so much progress happened during Reconstruction that was then explicitly dismantled. So, yeah, I also originally had this in the actual body of the episode, but it just felt like it was a weird aside anywhere in the flow of the narrative that I tried to put it. And that's about Emma Reynolds, who wanted to be a nurse. She'd wanted to be a nurse. Her brother went to Williams about her not being able to train to be a nurse. I think her brother's original thought might have been that Williams might just pull some strings for her. I don't know if he really went into it thinking, we're gonna start an entire hospital.

[Holly Fry]

I'm gonna make work for myself.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

But Emma Reynolds was. Graduated. Was accepted into that first class of nursing students. She graduated from the nursing program at Providen 1893. From there, she went on to Medical College of Chicago. And she earned a medical degree there in 1895. So she became the first black woman to graduate from the Medical College of Chicago. That's which I found also, of course, very interesting. Yes. I wish I had had more, like, first person accounts of what. What Daniel Hill Williams life was like, what his relationship with his mother was like. It really felt like a lot of people were very critical of his mother. But I also felt like I was reading people's judgments and like, not reading the facts of what happened, if that makes sense.

[Holly Fry]

Yes. And that's actually one of the things in. In his story that jumps out to me because this is a thing I am have, you know, learned late in life. I don't want to blow anybody's mind, but parents are humans.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh, yeah. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

It becomes so easy, I think, too, because we kind of set up this, like, very specific caricature of what it is to be a parent and specifically a mother. And if people don't, like, fit into what that is for whatever reason.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Even if it's completely reasonable and understandable, people get real weird about it and real judgy in a minute. And I'm like, this is a black woman at a time when things are starting to go in a really yucky direction. In addition to dealing with the loss of her spouse and trying to figure out how to manage her own life and the lives of her kids. Was she a great mom? I don't know. But, like, I don't feel like I'm in any position to put any judgment on that situation. Cause it's a lot.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Well, and I also think of, like, the decision that she and her two oldest daughters were gonna go to Illinois and they were gonna learn to, as I understand it, become hairdressers. Right? Which was, like, one of the things that black women could do to support themselves and their families and could do really well at. And so, like, just the fact of that of, like, okay, I. And the two older girls who are old enough to, you know, start working, we're gonna go, we're gonna learn hair stuff. I'm like, yeah, that seems like a reasonable plan to me. Yeah, same. It also seems not possible to do that if you also have four other children to care for. So, like, the fact of having to split up the children does sound horrifying, but also, like, what other option might there.

[David Eagleman]

This is David Eagleman, host of the science podcast Inner Cosmos. For Valentine's Day, we're diving into the question, what is love from the brain's point of view? What does love have to. To do with how you were raised or the symmetry of someone's face or the smell of their underarms? Why does the character of love change throughout our lives? Why is heartbreak like drug withdrawal? And what does any of this have to do with sweaty T shirts or rom coms or monogamous animals and the future of love and AI? Join me for this week's Inner Cosmos. For a deep, deep dive into the neurobiology of love, listen to Inner Cosmos with David Eagleman on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Why would you do that to me when I thought we were friends?

[Jess]

We are friends.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Los Angeles, 2021. A friendly neighbor appears out of nowhere and promises to make all my dreams come true.

[Holly Fry]

Let's not forget that David Bloom was a professional con artist, so you didn't stand a chance.

[Caroline D'Amore]

But my dreams soon turned into a nightmare.

[David Eagleman]

Bloom generally targeted people with money, and.

[Caroline D'Amore]

I was not alone.

[David Eagleman]

He took over 100 people for over $15 million. One of the victims was his own grandmother.

[Holly Fry]

I was married to David for almost 10 years.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

It was insane.

[Holly Fry]

I was barely functioning. And I just had this realization that he will not stop until he kills me.

[Caroline D'Amore]

Getting a con artist to pay for their crimes isn't easy.

[Holly Fry]

Charge David Blue.

[Caroline D'Amore]

I'm Caroline D'Amore. Listen as I take down my scammer on Once Upon a con on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Maria Tremarke]

Welcome to the Criminalia Podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarke]

Each season, we explore a new theme. Everything from poisoners and pirates to art thieves and snake oil products and those who made and sold them.

[Holly Fry]

We uncover the stories and secrets of some of history's most compelling criminal figures, including a man who built a submarine as a getaway vehicle. Yep, that's a fact.

[Maria Tremarke]

We also look at what kinds of societal forces were at play at the time of the crime, from legal injustices to the ethics of body snatching, to see what, if anything, might look different through today's perspective.

[Holly Fry]

And be sure to tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in custom made cocktails and mocktails inspired by the stories. There's one for every story we tell.

[Maria Tremarke]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jess]

Yo, what up? It's your girl Jess. Hilarious. And I think it's time to acknowledge that I'm not just a comedian. It's time to add uncertified therapists to my credentials. Because each and every Wednesday I'm fixing your mess on carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network Got problems in your relationship? Come to me. Your best friend acting shady? Come to me. Thinking about cursing that one stank auntie out at the next family gathering? Do it, but come to me before you did because I cussed all mine out before you wanna fight your co workers, come to me. Baby daddy mad cause you got a boyfriend, come to me. Thought you was the father but you not come to me. I can't promise I won't judge you, but I can guarantee that I will help you as a daughter, a sister, a mother and an entrepreneur. I've learned a lot in life, so I'm using my own perspective and experiences to help you fix your mess. Send me your situation and let's fix it as a family. Listen to carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Holly Fry]

I think too the judgments of it to me and I didn't do the research so you may have insight that shifts this. It seems to decontextualize the fact that that was not all that uncommon a practice in a situation like that where some catastrophic thing had happened to a family and often the loss of the primary breadwinner was like okay, who in the family can help? Where can we put these kids? Often it meant splitting them up among relatives houses. That wasn't an unusual path. So for her to have that level of scrutiny and kind of be characterized as though she abandoned her kids is unsettling and obviously rooted in the bias of racism, I'm sure.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. That happened in my grandmother's family.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Not uncommon at all.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. So, yeah, I kind like. I wish I had, like, more specific detail, because what I read really felt like people had a lot of judgment of her. And I could not figure out whether those just judgments were really justified or. I also went down a rabbit hole while researching this episode of whether a surgery on the pericardium is an open heart surgery. Since the heart muscle and the pericardium are two different things, but the pericardium is part of the way the heart functions. And generally the answer seemed to be yes. Like that surgically, the heart and the pericardium are one organ.

[Holly Fry]

They are two parts of the greater whole. Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. And I mean, I guess if you're gonna. Well, actually something the. More of the. Well, actually is that there had been other surgeries on the pericardium before this that he just did not know had happened when he did them.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Or when he did the one that he wrote the paper about. There were, I think, at least two other surgeries to repair someone's pericardium that he did after that. The one that he became most known for, that person lived another something like 38 years. And one of his other patients reportedly lived another 50 years. The fact that we didn't have antibiotics at that point, also pretty incredible. Even with all of the steps that he was taking for hygiene and antiseptic procedures during the surgery itself.

[Holly Fry]

That's also where it starts to be a little infuriating to see the way that politics led to this person who was incredibly bold as a practicer of medicine, medical practitioner in ways that was saving people. Having him literally nickeled and dimed in terms of, like, I don't know, there was a box of envelopes that went missing while you were here. Like, it just seems so petty and stupid and gross at that point.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

It also seemed like there was petty infighting at every single medical facility that was part of this. And it just kind of made me think, this explains why there's so many doctor shows full of interpersonal dynamics. I know that it's not really realistic what's happens on the doctor shows, but it seemed like every single one of them, you know, if it was a facility of any size at all, there were people who hated each other and were trying to undermine each other out all of them, regardless of the prominence of the hospital or who worked there.

[Holly Fry]

In my naivete, I'm like, shouldn't you be about the greater mission of caring for people's health instead of trying to be the most one or whatever it is you're after.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

But again, that's a very naive way to look at it. Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Anyway, hey, whatever's happening on your weekend, I hope it is as absolutely as good as possible. We are recording all these at least two weeks ahead of when the weekend is coming. So I have no idea what's happening in the world on this Friday of our Friday behind the Scenes. But we will be back with a Saturday Classic tomorrow. Think the Saturday Classic tomorrow is gonna be about William Montague Cobb. And then we'll have something brand new on Monday. Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite.

[Maria Tremarke]

Welcome to the Criminalia podcast. I'm Maria Tremarke.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry. Together, we invite you into the dark and winding corridors of historical true crime.

[Maria Tremarke]

Each season we explore a new theme. From poisoners to art thieves, we uncover.

[Holly Fry]

The secrets of history's most interesting figures, from legal injustices to body snatching.

[Maria Tremarke]

And tune in at the end of each episode as we indulge in cocktails and mocktails. Inspector inspired by each story.

[Holly Fry]

Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jess]

Yo, what up? It's your girl, Jess. Hilarious. And I think it's time to acknowledge that I'm not just a comedian. It's time to add uncertified therapists to my credentials. Because each and every Wednesday I'm fixing your mess on carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Got problems in your relationship? Come to me. Your best friend acting shady? Come to me. Thought you was the father but you not come to me. I can't promise I won't judge you, but I can guarantee that I will help you. Listen to carefully Reckless on the Black Effect Podcast Network, iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. Welcome to my Legacy. I'm Martin Luther King iii, and together with my wife, Andrea Waters King, and our dear friends Mark and Craig Kilburger, we explore the personal journeys that shape extraordinary lives. Join us for heart conversations with remarkable guests like David Oyelo, Mel Robbins, Martin Sheen, Dr. Sanjay Gupta, and Billy Porter.

[David Eagleman]

Listen to my legacy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

This is my legacy.

[Jess]

The OGs of uncensored motherhood are back and badder than ever.

[Maria Tremarke]

I'm Erica.

[Jess]

And I'm Mila.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And we're the hosts of the Good Mom's Bad Choices podcast, brought to you by the the Black Effect Podcast Network every Wednesday.

[Jess]

Yeah, we're moms, but not your mommy. Historically, men talk too much and women have quietly listened.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And all that stops here.

[Jess]

If you like witty women, then this is your choice. Listen to the Good Mom's Bad Choices podcast every Wednesday on the Black Effect podcast network, the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast, or wherever you go to find your podcast.