Stuff You Missed in History Class

Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Math and Falsehoods
Hosts: Holly Frey & Tracy V. Wilson
Release Date: September 19, 2025
Podcast Network: iHeartPodcasts

Episode Overview

In this behind-the-scenes installment, Holly and Tracy reflect on two recent main topics:

1. The life and scientific contributions of Augustin-Jean Fresnel, focusing on the development of the Fresnel lens and the science behind it.
2. Maria Amparo Ruiz de Burton, a significant and complex figure in American history, as well as a critical look at a recent spate of misrepresentations about Smithsonian programming circulating in political and media circles.

The conversation swings from personal anecdotes and philosophical musings about work and passion to a careful, point-by-point rebuttal of misleading claims about the Smithsonian’s work, particularly regarding inclusion and representation.

Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Augustin-Jean Fresnel: Science, Passion, and Professional Identity

(02:59 – 12:29)

• Origin of the Episode:

  • Tracy describes how the episode came to be, inspired by audience requests and her own fascination with seeing a Fresnel lens in a museum ([03:02]).
  • Tracy: “I feel like I was at one of the museums in Gloucester, Massachusetts, and saw one of the lenses and was like, that's so cool.” ([03:08])

• Fresnel’s Early Career:

  • Holly recounts how Fresnel, instead of social climbing as expected in early 19th-century French society, simply wanted to learn more science from local teachers ([04:53]).
  • Holly: “He did not care about social climbing... What he cared about was, I really love science and I want to learn more.” ([05:08])

• Scientific Community Drama:

  • Holly discusses infighting among France’s scientific community—rivalries, drama, and pettiness, likening them to “the Real Scientists of France” ([05:29]).
  • She connects this to broader cultural perceptions about “dramatic” women vs. the reality of competitive men in academic circles.

• Work vs. Passion:

  • Holly explores the tension between ‘following your passion’ and the realities of work, using Fresnel’s journey as an example—he built his professional identity through passion, not just his job ([06:50 – 09:41]).
  • Holly: “Your work should almost be the least interesting thing about you.... The second your passion becomes like your responsibility and your way that you make money, it's now a job, the fun falls off.” ([07:43])
  • Encouragement to pursue new interests and not to conflate self-worth with employment.

• Math Anxiety and Self-Worth:

  • Both hosts admit their mathematical limits—complex math terrifies Holly, while Tracy struggles more with arithmetic. They celebrate individual strengths and the diversity of skills ([11:06 – 12:29]).
  • Holly: “If ever you're having one of these moments in your life where you're like, I don't feel like a very bright person because I don't understand this... I bet Augustin Fresnel couldn't make a dress and I can. So everybody has their skill sets.” ([11:47])

2. Maria Amparo Ruiz de Burton & Falsehoods About the Smithsonian

(16:20 – 36:11)

• Episode Inspiration:

  • Tracy explains that anger from seeing a White House website’s distorted take on Smithsonian exhibits inspired her research into Maria Amparo Ruiz de Burton ([16:20]).

• Dissecting Misinformation:

  • Tracy methodically addresses and debunks misleading claims from the White House site:

    • National Museum of African American History and Culture “work ethic” graphic: She notes that it was interpreted in the least generous way possible and was removed years ago, but the controversy persists ([17:30 – 18:34]).

    • The value of work in American society: Tracy challenges the idea that work should define our worth, connecting the topic to American labor practices and personal anecdotes ([18:04 – 19:19]).

      • Tracy: “We were living in a society where people were like, yeah, that's normal. I think that's bad, honestly.” ([19:02])

    • Latino programming and disability inclusion:

      • Tracy highlights the out-of-context critique of a two-minute educational video featuring a disabled, plus-size actress. She expresses her frustration with hostility toward inclusion ([19:20 – 20:51]).
      • Tracy: “You're mad that there's a two minute video at the website that has a disabled plus size actress”? ([20:42])
      • Holly: “How dare people exist and talk about their existence.” ([20:46])

    • Art, Power, and Identity:

      • The hosts push back on the criticism of exhibits encouraging dialogue about power and identity, noting it’s a basic function of art and museums ([21:15 – 22:06]).
      • Tracy: “If you think the purpose of art is to stand and look at something on a wall and go ‘pretty’, then maybe it is objectionable to you.” ([21:56])

    • Benjamin Franklin and Slavery:

      • Tracy dispels claims that Franklin exhibits “focus almost solely on slavery,” emphasizing the need for context and recognition of the support systems—enslaved people, family members—that enabled historical achievements ([22:06 – 24:02]).

• The Statue of Liberty with Tomatoes:

  • Tracy discusses perhaps the most egregious example of distortion: criticism of a museum artifact—a papier-mâché Statue of Liberty holding tomatoes, created by the Coalition of Immokalee Workers ([27:55 – 30:58]).
    • She explains its origin as a symbol for migrant tomato-pickers' fight for fairness, and how its presence in the Smithsonian is entirely appropriate as a record of American labor activism.
    • Tracy: “The bosses were refusing them a penny per bucket of tomatoes.” ([29:34])
    • “If you have a problem with this, I am angry at you personally.” ([30:38])

• Art as Political Target:

  • Both hosts express outrage at the current political targeting of inclusive museum exhibits and the propagation of misinformation by prominent actors ([30:58]).

3. History’s Interconnections & Personal Reflections

(31:56 – 35:47)

• Maria’s Life and Community:

  • Holly notes Maria’s connection to other historical women like Harriet Williams Russell Strong, admiring the unexpected webs of influence in history ([32:12]).
  • Holly: "The spider web of history stories that all kind of come together to make the fabric of our story as humans. I was like, oh, I see the tendrils reaching each other." ([32:36])
  • Holly and Tracy consider the complexities of Maria’s relationships, notably her friendship with Verena Davis (Jefferson Davis’s wife) and with Mary Todd Lincoln ([33:08 – 34:18]).
    • Tracy admits her limited Spanish prevented deeper research into Maria’s correspondence; Holly voices discomfort with socializing with those with fundamentally differing human rights beliefs ([34:30 – 34:50]).

• Maria's Social Circle and Complexity:

  • Discussion of the complicated landscape of abolitionists, racism, and privilege within Maria’s environment ([34:52 – 35:47]).
  • Tracy: “She was operating within her own prejudices as well. So. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I find her very interesting.”

• End-of-Episode Well Wishes:

  • Tracy wishes listeners a restful weekend: “Whatever is happening for you this weekend, I hope it is great… If you’re able to take some time to… recover from my lengthy diatribes in today's behind the scenes, we’ll be back with a Saturday classic tomorrow and something brand new on Monday.” ([35:53 – 36:13])

Notable Quotes & Timestamps

• “He did not care about social climbing... What he cared about was, I really love science and I want to learn more.”
  – Holly ([05:08])

• “The panel, like Arago and Biot had fallen out and then Poisson had become Arago's enemy because they had both been up for the same academic appointment. And... just drama. So, like, it's again, one of those things where... the proclivity... to characterize women as being, you know, kind of dramatic... there's so many historical and contemporary, frankly, examples of that not being the case at all.”
  – Holly ([05:29])

• “Your work should almost be the least interesting thing about you... The second your passion becomes like your responsibility... it's now a job, the fun falls off.”
  – Holly ([07:43])

• “If ever you're having one of these moments in your life where you're like, I don't feel like a very bright person because I don't understand this... I bet Augustin Fresnel couldn't make a dress and I can. So everybody has their skill sets.”
  – Holly ([11:47])

• “The incredibly reductive, least generous possible read on that kind of stuff is what wound up going viral, of course.”
  – Tracy ([17:31])

• “We were living in a society where people were like, yeah, that's normal. I think that's bad, honestly.”
  – Tracy ([19:02])

• “You're mad that there's a two minute video at the website that has a disabled plus size actress?”
  – Tracy ([20:42])

• “If you think the purpose of art is to stand and look at something on a wall and go ‘pretty’, then maybe it is objectionable to you.”
  – Tracy ([21:56])

• “The bosses were refusing them a penny per bucket of tomatoes.”
  – Tracy ([29:34])

• “If you have a problem with this, I am angry at you personally.”
  – Tracy ([30:38])

• “The spider web of history stories that all kind of come together to make the fabric of our story as humans...”
  – Holly ([32:36])

Timestamps for Important Segments

• Fresnel’s social quirks and love of science: 03:42 – 05:25
• Science drama and gender stereotypes: 05:29 – 06:50
• Work, passion, and identity: 06:50 – 09:41
• Math anxiety and individual skills: 11:06 – 12:29
• False claims about Smithsonian; in-depth rebuttal: 16:20 – 30:58
• Statue of Liberty with tomatoes; symbolism, context, and outrage: 27:55 – 30:58
• Interconnections in women's history: 32:12 – 33:40
• Maria’s correspondence and complexity: 33:56 – 35:47

Tone and Style

The hosts maintain an engaging, conversational, and often humorous tone, balancing thoughtful critique with moments of warmth and self-deprecation. Their candor and passion for both history and social equity shine throughout, making complex and sometimes frustrating topics relatable and accessible to listeners.

This summary encapsulates the essential points, thoughtful critiques, and delightful tangents of this episode—offering context, insight, and heart even for listeners who missed the original.