Behind the Scenes Minis: Morality and Friction

Summary

Stuff You Missed in History Class
Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Morality and Friction
Release Date: March 21, 2025

---

Introduction

In the "Behind the Scenes Minis: Morality and Friction" episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, hosts Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wil delve into the intricate and often unsettling aspects of historical moral instruction systems. Joined by contributors Tia Sircar and Taylor Gray, the episode explores the complexities surrounding children's morality codes, their societal implications, and the friction they created among prominent historical figures.

The National Institution for Moral Instruction

The discussion opens with an examination of the National Institution for Moral Instruction, a program that has drawn comparisons to Nazi ideologies due to its stringent moral expectations imposed on children.

Taylor Gray [03:17]: "The way he became super ableist and into eugenics. Super creepy. It's really, really. It's just troubling."

The hosts express their unease with the program's methods and objectives, highlighting its emphasis on controlling and molding children's behavior to fit a rigid moral framework.

Research on Children's Honesty

A significant portion of the conversation centers around a 1928 study conducted by researchers like Edward Thorndike, funded by industrial magnates Rockefeller and Carnegie. The study investigated the honesty of children through journal entries where they documented their good deeds. Surprisingly, it was found that children who volunteered for the study were the most deceitful in their journals.

Taylor Gray [03:13]: "There's a quote from the researchers that, like, they... In one of their experiments, they had this setup where kids were supposed to write down in a journal, like, the various good acts they did... but the kids that volunteered turned out to kind of be the biggest liars in the class."

This revelation sparked widespread debate in the 1920s about the inherent trustworthiness of children, challenging preconceived notions of youth innocence and integrity.

Parental Expectations and Societal Judgments

The episode further explores how these morality codes placed undue pressure on parents, especially those raising children with disabilities. The hosts discuss the harsh judgments society often placed on parents who had to place their children in care facilities due to the lack of resources and support.

Tia Sircar [07:01]: "Like, fine, fine. I'm not saying that that shouldn't happen, but like, that the list of laws really exemplifies the way that a lot of thinking in our culture and history has been like, if you're able-bodied, you're good. Yeah. But if you're not able-bodied, obviously you're bad and it's your own fault somehow and you should have not done that."

This segment highlights the systemic issues and prejudices that affected vulnerable families, shedding light on the societal stigma surrounding disability and caregiving.

Funding Mysteries and Ethical Implications

A pivotal moment in the discussion revolves around the mysterious funding behind the National Institution for Moral Instruction. Despite thorough research, the hosts have yet to uncover the exact benefactor who financed the program.

Taylor Gray [10:18]: "Maybe it was one of them. I don't know. We may not ever know, or we may find out."

This unanswered question raises concerns about the ethical motivations and hidden agendas that may have influenced such morally oppressive institutions.

Conflicts Among Historical Figures

The conversation shifts to personal conflicts between Mary Hunter Austin and other notable figures like Willa Cather and John Muir. These disagreements provide insight into the personal and professional tensions that existed within influential circles of the time.

Tia Sircar [17:35]: "Mary was going to stay at my house while I'm away. And Willa Cather said, great. And she wrote part of Death Comes for the Archbishop staying there at Mary Austin's house."

These interactions reveal the often tumultuous relationships that shaped literary and environmental movements in early 20th-century America.

Reflections on Parenting and Societal Support

Towards the end of the episode, Holly and Tracy reflect on the challenges of parenting, especially under societal pressure and without adequate support systems. They emphasize the importance of understanding and compassion in raising children, particularly those with special needs.

Tia Sircar [29:08]: "The whole family also needs to have a home and eat and have electricity and all of that."

This poignant reminder underscores the necessity for comprehensive support structures to aid families in nurturing and caring for their children effectively.

Conclusion

In "Behind the Scenes Minis: Morality and Friction," Stuff You Missed in History Class offers a deep and thoughtful exploration of historical morality codes, their impact on children and families, and the broader societal implications. Through engaging dialogue and thorough research, Holly, Tracy, Tia, and Taylor shed light on the often-overlooked complexities of moral instruction and its lasting effects on society.

Notable Quotes

• Taylor Gray [03:17]: "The way he became super ableist and into eugenics. Super creepy. It's really, really. It's just troubling."

• Tia Sircar [07:01]: "Like, fine, fine. I'm not saying that that shouldn't happen, but like, that list of laws really exemplifies the way that a lot of thinking in our culture and history has been like, if you're able-bodied, you're good. Yeah."

• Taylor Gray [10:18]: "Maybe it was one of them. I don't know. We may not ever know, or we may find out."

• Tia Sircar [17:35]: "Mary was going to stay at my house while I'm away. And Willa Cather said, great. And she wrote part of Death Comes for the Archbishop staying there at Mary Austin's house."

• Tia Sircar [29:08]: "The whole family also needs to have a home and eat and have electricity and all of that."

---

For more insightful discussions and richly detailed historical explorations, tune into Stuff You Missed in History Class on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Vanessa Marshall]

Breaking news T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps.

[Tia Sircar]

Keep you connected from big cities to.

[Vanessa Marshall]

Your hometown on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Last 15 days qualifying unlock device credit.

[Tia Sircar]

Service port in 90 plus days device.

[Vanessa Marshall]

And eligible carrier and timely redemption required card is no cash access and expires in six months. Welcome to Pod of Rebellion, our new.

[Taylor Gray]

Star Wars Rebels Rewatch podcast.

[Vanessa Marshall]

I'm Vanessa Marshall, voice of Harrison Duella, Specter 2. I'm Tia Sirkar. Sabine Wren, Spectre 5. I'm Taylor Gray. Ezra Bridger, Specter 6. And I'm Jon Lee Brody, the Ghost Crew Stowaway moderator. Each week we're gonna rewatch and discuss an episode from the series and share some fun behind the scenes stories. Sometimes we'll be visited by special guests like Steve blume voices Zaborelio Spectre 4.

[Tia Sircar]

Or Dante Bosco voices Jaquel.

[Vanessa Marshall]

So hang on because it's going to.

[Taylor Gray]

Be a fun ride.

[Vanessa Marshall]

Cue the music. Listen to Potter Rebellion on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Taylor Gray]

From the producers who brought you Princess of South beach comes a new podcast, the Setup. The setup follows a lonely museum curator. But when the perfect man walks into his life.

[Vanessa Marshall]

Well, I guess I'm saying I like you, you like me.

[Taylor Gray]

He actually is too good to.

[Vanessa Marshall]

This is a con. I'm conning you to get the dilemma painting. We could do this together.

[Taylor Gray]

Listen to the setup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Vanessa Marshall]

I'm Emila, host of the podcast Crumbs. For years, I had to rely on other people to tell me my story. And what I heard wasn't good. You really? Last night, it felt like I lived most of my life in a blackout. I was trapped in addiction. I had to grab the lamp and smashed it against the walls. And then I decided I wanted to tell my own story. Listen to crumbs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Taylor Gray]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio. Hello and happy Friday. I'm Holly Fry.

[Tia Sircar]

And I'm Tracy V. Wil.

[Taylor Gray]

Oh, man.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah.

[Taylor Gray]

Children's Morality Code.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah. Yuck. Yeah. I had never heard of this. You sent Me, the outline. I read the words National Institution for Moral Instruction, and I was like, hey, this sounds like Nazis.

[Taylor Gray]

It's pretty awful.

[Tia Sircar]

Not quite time for like, the. The Nazi party had not developed yet, but something about it. Immediately I was like, no, this seems like something bad.

[Taylor Gray]

The hardest of passes. Man, this one is so yucky in so many ways. I mean, it starts with the camera hidden in a briefcase. That's creeper behavior.

[Tia Sircar]

Extremely creepy.

[Taylor Gray]

The way he became super ableist and into eugenics. Super creepy. It's really, really. It's just troubling. And it is one of those things. We didn't go into it, but that when the inquiry started being published in 1928, it got a lot of coverage in the paper. And like one newspaper, there's this huge. With a graphic article about it about, like, the findings of kids and how often kids lie and how, you know, kids. There's a quote from the researchers that, like, they. In one of their experiments, they had this setup where kids were supposed to write down in a journal, like, the various good acts they did, I think. And it was a voluntary thing. Students didn't have to do it. But the kids that volunteered turned out to kind of be the biggest liars in the class based on their other studies like that they were just lying in their journals about the good things they had done. And this, of course, became very newsworthy because in the 1920s, before the Depression, people really had time to discuss whether or not kids were worthy of being human beings. It's so weird. It's all so weird. Yeah, I. I can't. I mean, you know, Dewey had it right, right. He's like, this is just social intelligence, you guys. People will. Will learn these things. That's part of growing up.

[Tia Sircar]

Just to be super clear, in case people have forgotten since the episode, the Dewey we're talking about there is not Melville Dewey, creator of the Dewey Decimal System. No, we're not saying that guy was right about anything. This is a different Dewey.

[Taylor Gray]

Have issues with the Dewey Decimal System.

[Tia Sircar]

I have how. How horrible. Melville Dewey was on, like, my short list for an episode, but I just can't deal with him in this moment.

[Taylor Gray]

Yeah, yeah. The whole idea that, like, kids needed these very, like, like you said it, it vibes very, you know, Nazi ish. The youth of the future must be perfect kind of ideology. I will say this. A broken clock is right twice a day. Okay. And I did find. It is listed in that PhD paper that we read as like a footnote that she found in something else. So I didn't include it in the episode because at that point it's many times removed from anything I can look up and verify. But she noted that she found in a thing someone mentioning Fairchild's list of immoral behaviors. There are a couple of things in this that I was like, well, yeah, that's right. Yeah. So one of them is opposition to proof of another's theories because of jealousy. Okay, sure. Degenerating into a propagandist of an unproved hypothesis instead of being true to the research purpose of discovering truth.

[Tia Sircar]

Okay, that sounds great.

[Taylor Gray]

We all need to learn that all the time. And then cowardice in supporting a verified generalization because it is unpopular and conflicts with selfish interests. I'm like, yeah, that's all true.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah.

[Taylor Gray]

Why are you so messed up?

[Tia Sircar]

I also think like, you know, teaching kids about things like honesty.

[Taylor Gray]

Great.

[Tia Sircar]

Like, fine, fine. I'm not saying that that shouldn't happen, but like, that the list of laws really exemplifies the way that a lot of thinking in our culture and history has been like, if you're able bodied, you're good. Yeah. But if you're not able bodied, obviously you're bad and it's your own fault somehow and you should have not done that. And boy, did I hate reading that.

[Taylor Gray]

It's awful. It's awful. The whole idea that kids were basically gonna be put in camps if they weren't moral.

[Tia Sircar]

Yep.

[Taylor Gray]

Or incarcerated is so horrifying. I mean, I. Of course, because I'm a self centered person. Cause I'm a human. You know, you always project yourself into these scenarios. And I would be like, listen, I was the kid that always had Holly lack self control written on every one of my report cards because I wanted to chitter chatter with everybody in class. I would be a kid that sat in incarceration in his world. Because I never learned that lesson. I never learned not to say bad words or yell when people made me angry.

[Vanessa Marshall]

I.

[Taylor Gray]

And it's like, it's something that simple that literally would make you considered not worthy of being in society. And I'm like, this also reaches a tipping point. Pretend none of it is even about the incarceration of people that don't pass the morality code. At what point is a code like this invoked to keep people down? Do you know what I mean? Like, if you have this and kids are doing this every day and they're reciting all of the ways that they're going to adhere to these laws of morality, what happens when that kid comes into a situation that they have not been prepared for where a person in power is doing something wrong because they have been taught to be loyal and to not complain.

[Tia Sircar]

Right.

[Taylor Gray]

And to like.

[Tia Sircar]

Right?

[Taylor Gray]

Nope. That's a big nopalope. It made me so angry. It made me so angry that I was like, we have to talk about this. Yeah, it's gonna suck, but we have to talk about it.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah, man.

[Taylor Gray]

Yuck. Also on the, like, you know, Bravo TV edition of this whole thing, we never found out, to the best of my knowledge, who the person was that put up that money.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah, I. So in addition to being like, hey, man, this sounds like Nazis. What's happening? I went to try to figure out what this organization was because that was not a name I recognized from, you know, the list of historical organizations in my head. And I found this one, one thing that, like, listed all the members and advisors and stuff like that. And I was like, who was this businessman that paid for this, though? And that was not in there.

[Taylor Gray]

Nope. I never found it. Never found it. It's interesting. I know the work of the researchers that did the inquiry that oversaw it, Edward Thorndike, he had been funded in his work, which was similarly trying to, like, dismantle these ideas or like, show that they're not effective, was funded both by Rockefeller and Carnegie. So I was like, well, those are the two people I would have suspected of putting up the money. So if they were working against it, who was this mystery person? And we will never know. Maybe it was one of them. I don't know.

[Tia Sircar]

Maybe we will know at some point when somebody's writing a dissertation on some businessman finds the transaction in their ledger somewhere.

[Taylor Gray]

Right. The 1916, $5,000. Or it might have been earlier. Right. Because it might have been.

[Tia Sircar]

Oh, sure.

[Taylor Gray]

Allocated before when the thing was announced.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah.

[Taylor Gray]

And the $20,000, like that, I mean, that was a lot of money at the time. So that is a significant transaction.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah.

[Taylor Gray]

Oh, I ache to know who it was. I ache. Who would have had a vested interest anyway? I could think and theorize for a very long time, but I don't. We. We may not ever know, or we may find out. I don't know. I'm sure glad that they stopped doing that.

[Vanessa Marshall]

Is this a good time? It's me, Dylan Mulvaney, and my dear friend Joe Locke from Heartstopper. And Agath all along is my very first guest on my brand new podcast, the Dylan Hour. It's musical mayhem and it is going to be so much fun. I like a man. You like a man. What Do I like Joe? You like a man too. We often. There's quite similar. There's some cross pollination happening in here. Not like. No. Have we? No. No, not yet. Never say never. I cannot wait for all you girls, gays and they to join me on this extremely special pink confection of a podcast. There is so much darkness in this world and what I think we could all use more of is a little joy. Listen to the Dylan hour on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Love ya. Hey there Snafu listeners. I am beyond thrilled to finally share with you that this coming April my very first book is coming out. And it is based on this very podcast packed with jaw dropping moments and tons of laughs. Please stop by snafu-book.com and pre order yourself a book or two or 100. Just keep them in the closet whenever you need to give out a cheeky, sophisticated gift.

[Taylor Gray]

Take care.

[Vanessa Marshall]

I started to live a double life when I was a teenager. Responsible and driven and wild and out of control. My head is pounding. I'm confused. I don't know why I'm in jail. It's hard to understand what hope is when you're trapped in a cycle of addiction. Addiction took me to the darkest places. I had an AK47 pointed at my head. But one night, a new door opened and I made it into the rooms of recovery. The path would have roadblocks and detours, stalls and relapses. But when I was feeling the most lost, I found hope with community and I made my way back this season. Join me on my journey through addiction and recovery. A story told in 12 steps. Listen to Crumbs as part of the Mike Lura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Cheekies]

Hey, y'all, it's your girl, Cheekies. And I'm back with a brand new season of your favorite podcast, Cheekies and Chill. I'll be sharing even more personal stories with you guys and I know a lot of people are going to attack me. Why are you going to go visit your dad? Your mom wouldn't be okay with it. I'm going to tell you guys right now. I know my mother and I know my mom had a very forgiving heart. That is my story on plastic surgery. This is my truth. I think the last time I cried like that was when I lost my mom like that. Like, yelling. I was like, no.

[Vanessa Marshall]

I was like, oh.

[Cheekies]

And I thought, what did I do?

[Taylor Gray]

Wrong.

[Cheekies]

And as always, you'll get my exclusive take on topics like love, personal growth, health, family ties, and more. And don't forget, I'll also be dishing out my best advice to you on episodes of Dear Cheekies.

[Taylor Gray]

So my fiance and I have been together for 10 years. In the first two years of being together, I find out he is cheating on me, not only with women, but also with men. What should I do?

[Cheekies]

Okay, where do I start? That's not love. He doesn't love you enough. Because if he loved you, he'd be faithful. It's going to be an exciting year, and I hope that you can join me, listen to Cheekies and Chill Season four as part of the My Cultura Podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tia Sircar]

One of this week's episodes was on Mary Hunter Austin, who I really thought that I was gonna be writing an episode that was about walking in the desert and reading lots of quotes about her beautiful descriptions of the desert landscapes and the desert peoples that she was so in love with. And that was not the episode that we got.

[Vanessa Marshall]

No.

[Tia Sircar]

I did not intend this episode as, like, a counterpoint to Harriet Russell Williams Strong, who we talked about last year.

[Taylor Gray]

I was gonna ask if she came up in the friction stories about the irrigation issues.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah. I did not see Harriet Russell Williams Strong's name mentioned in any of it. But as I was doing the research on Mary Austin, I was like, why does this sound so familiar? We've talked about this on the show. When did we talk about it? And just enough time had passed that I had to go digging to bring to mind what episode that was in. In addition to that dispute, it seems like Mary Austin had some conflicts with people. We mentioned John Muir at the beginning of the episode. I don't know what their disagreements were, but one of the sources that I used mentioned that there were disagreements, that they butted heads in some way. And I was like, I wish I could find the details about that.

[Taylor Gray]

Right.

[Tia Sircar]

We. We talk. We talked. Yeah, we talked about, like, being threatened with a lawsuit by H.G. wells and having a heart attack in the stress of all that. There was also apparently a falling out with Willa Cather.

[Taylor Gray]

She just had all the greatest hits of arguments.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah. And I don't think. I don't think we mentioned Willa Cather at all in the episode, but she met Willa Cather probably sometime in, like, the 1910s. They became friends in 1926. Mary was going to be a way to have an abdominal surgery unrelated, I think, to the breast cancer diagnosis, which I have various questions about what's going on with that, which they're unresolved. I have no answers to the questions about her breast cancer diagnosis. But she was going to be in St. Louis having an abdominal surgery, and Willa Cather was going to be passing through her neighborhood. And she was like, hey, you can stay at my house while I'm away. And Willa Cather said, great. And she wrote part of Death Comes for the Archbishop staying there at Mary Austin's house. And she acknowledged, like, she acknowledged this, I think, in an inscribed book that she gave to Mary later on. But in Earth Horizon, Mary Hunter called Willa Cather's praise of French missionary priests a calamity. And Willa Cather, like, publicly denied having written any part of any book at Mary Austin's home. And I was, like, drunk, just having arguments everywhere. I think she may have met Willa Cather at Mabel Dodge Lujan's house. That was the wife of Tony Lujan, who was the person that they had worked with to get permission to take pictures at Taos Pueblo.

[Taylor Gray]

Yeah.

[Tia Sircar]

Mary Dodge Lujan seems like an incredibly fascinating person to maybe, possibly do an episode about one day. She was an heiress and a promoter of the arts, and her home became kind of a gathering place, or their home. They were married. They became. It became a gathering place and a retreat for writers and artists, and that included people like Georgia O'Keefe and Willa Cather. So she was sort of a central figure in the. The literature and arts and culture of this part of the U.S. yeah, I'm.

[Taylor Gray]

I'm. I. I don't. I know you have no answers, but I'm like, oh, she lived way past the 1909. Huh. I guess I'm not dying of breast cancer moment, so I think I'll go to Italy, like, a long time after that.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah. I have absolutely no detail on, like, what kind of examination she was given when she was told that she had breast cancer. I have no idea what diagnostic tools went into that. Um, really no sense of what her symptoms were besides this arm pain that had led her to go to the doctor.

[Taylor Gray]

Right.

[Tia Sircar]

I just have a lot of questions about all of that. Me, too. Also, I have a lot of feelings about her daughter Ruth.

[Taylor Gray]

Yeah.

[Tia Sircar]

Because part of, like, the time when Mary was trying to parent Ruth with no resources. Some of that sounds off, really awful. I'm not really completely clear on how old Ruth was when Mary would go to work as a teacher. And leave her by herself at home.

[Taylor Gray]

Right.

[Tia Sircar]

Like whether she was of an age that people might think that was okay, it. It seems like she was. She did not have the ability that she would. Needed that she would have needed to like do that safely. So some of this just sounds really terrible, but the judgment that people passed on her for finding other arrangements was also really awful. Yeah, I felt like, personally, I had personal feelings about that because my mom, her entire career was working with disabled people. She started working with disabled adults in a day program, teaching things like literacy and math and life skills and things like that in like a day program. And most of the adults that she worked with might be able to like live in a group home setting or with family, some kind of situation where they had additional help and additional support. But then she started working with children in a long term care facility. And the children that she worked with, a lot of them had multiple disabilities. A lot of them had, I mean, not all of them. All of them had multiple disabilities. All of them had very high support needs and a lot of them also had medical needs where they really needed like 24 hour medical care on site. So, like kids that needed breathing support, that needed to be suctioned on a regular basis or had feeding tubes or some kind of stoma on their body, like all kinds of things like that. And sure, there were parents that probably seemed inattentive or callous in that whole situation. There were also a lot of parents where it was like, what was the other option? Right. Like this child needs care all the time. This child needs a lot of support all the time. The whole family also needs to have a home and eat and have electricity and all of that.

[Taylor Gray]

Yeah.

[Tia Sircar]

And so, like, it may not be possible for this child to be cared for at home. There are some ways for people to be cared for at home, but a lot of times those are extraordinarily expensive. They can be really hard to arrange. And sometimes there are just ways to have subsidized care in a residential facility that doesn't exist for somebody trying to stay at home. But people spoke about the parents whose children were living at this facility with a very broad brush and spoke as though everyone was just awful for having to place their child. And sometimes I'm just like, they're. What would the other option be though?

[Taylor Gray]

Right?

[Vanessa Marshall]

Is this a good time? It's me, Dylan Mulvaney, and my dear friend Joe Locke from Heartstopper. And Agatha all along is my very first guest on my brand new podcast, the Dylan Hour. It's Musical mayhem. And it is going to be so much fun. I like a man. You like a man. What do I like, Joe? You like a man to too. We often there's quite similar. There's some cross pollination happening in here. Not like. No. Have we?

[Taylor Gray]

No.

[Vanessa Marshall]

No, not yet. Never say never. I cannot wait for all you girls gays and they's to join me on this extremely special pink confection of a podcast. There is so much darkness in this world. And what I think we could all use more of is a little joy. Listen to the Dylan hour on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcast. Love ya.

[Taylor Gray]

Sonoro and iHeart's Mike Kultura podcast Network present the Setup, a new romantic comedy podcast starring Harvey Guillen and Christian Navarro. The setup follows a lonely museum curator searching for love. But when the perfect man walks into his life.

[Vanessa Marshall]

Well, I guess I'm saying I like you, you like me.

[Taylor Gray]

He actually is too good to be true.

[Tia Sircar]

This is a con.

[Vanessa Marshall]

I'm conning you to get the gelato painting.

[Taylor Gray]

We could do this together. To pull off this heist, they'll have to get close and jump into the deep end together.

[Tia Sircar]

That's a huge leap, Fernando, don't you think?

[Cheekies]

After you, Chulito.

[Taylor Gray]

But love is the biggest risk they'll ever take. Fernando is never going to love you.

[Vanessa Marshall]

As much as he loves this job.

[Taylor Gray]

Chulito.

[Vanessa Marshall]

That painting is ours.

[Taylor Gray]

Listen to the setup as part of the Microsoft Cultura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Vanessa Marshall]

I started to live a double life when I was a teenager. Responsible and driven and wild and out of control. My head is pounding. I'm confused. I don't know why I'm in jail. It's hard to understand what hope is when you're trapped in a cycle of addiction. Addiction took me to the darkest places. I had an AK47 pointed at my head. But one night, a new door opened and I made it into the rooms of recovery. The path would have roadblocks and detours, stalls and relapses. But when I was feeling the most lost, I found hope with community, and I made my way back. This season. Join me on my journey through addiction and recovery. A story told in 12 steps. Listen to Crumbs as part of the Michaelura Podcast Network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Cheekies]

Hey, y'all, it's your girl, Cheekies. And I'm back with a brand new season of your favorite podcast, Cheekies and Chill. I'll be sharing even more personal stories with you guys, and I know a lot of people are gonna attack me.

[Tia Sircar]

Why?

[Cheekies]

Are you gonna go visit your dad? Your mom wouldn't be okay with it. I'm gonna tell you guys right now. I know my mother, and I know my mom had a very forgiving heart. That is my story on plastic surgery. This is my truth. I think the last time I cried like that was when I lost my mom like that, like, yelling. I was like, no. I was like, oh. And I thought, what did I do wrong? And as always, you'll get my exclusive take on topics like love, personal growth, health, family ties, and more. And don't forget, I'll also be dishing out my best advice to you on episodes of Dear Cheekies.

[Taylor Gray]

So my fiance and I have been together for 10 years. In the first two years of being together, I find out he is cheating on me, not only with women, but also with men. What should I do?

[Cheekies]

Okay, where do I start? That's not love. He doesn't love you enough. Because if he loved you, he'd be faithful. It's going to be an exciting year, and I hope that you can join me, listen to Cheekies and Chill season four as part of the My Cultura podcast network, available on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Taylor Gray]

Take the fact that Ruth was disabled out of it, which is, you know, not to erase her or anything, but, like, even if Mary had what would be called an easy baby. Right. A kid that, like, hits all of their developmental marks, isn't especially fussy, seems well adjusted. She did not have a good model of parenthood to work from to begin with.

[Tia Sircar]

Oh, sure. Yeah.

[Taylor Gray]

So even if she had a child with no disabilities, perfectly, you know, healthy, and had had just an easy time in the world, I don't know that she would have been equipped with the tools to know how to be a great mom.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah.

[Taylor Gray]

Which, like, especially at this time when it's not like there were a kajillion parenting books, particularly not for parenting kids with disabilities.

[Tia Sircar]

Right.

[Taylor Gray]

Where was she gonna learn any of that?

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah. Well, and also with her husband not really involved.

[Taylor Gray]

Right. She's essentially a single parent.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah. She still would have needed to work to earn enough money to keep them housed and fed. Um, so, yeah, it's. It's. There are times in the accounts of that where I was like, wow, this sounds awful. And in this, you know, in this part of this situation, it seems like she did something really messed up. But there are also a lot of times where it seems like she was doing her best with no resources in a society that had no resources, that didn't even consider that there needed to be resources.

[Taylor Gray]

Right.

[Tia Sircar]

For disabled children and their families. None of which I was prepared to be writing an episode about Surprise. When I thought we were gonna have an episode about walking in the desert.

[Taylor Gray]

Surprise.

[Tia Sircar]

So, yeah, yeah. A lot of Mary Hunter Austin's work is in the public domain. Not all of it. Some of it is a little bit too recent to have come into the public domain yet. So there is a lot of it that you can read on places like, you know, archive.org and Project Gutenberg and places like that. I feel like her assertion that she could figure out English and writing on her own and she wanted to spend her college education on something else, that there was some hubris there because it does seem like she struggled to work out things like, you know, craft and style and all of that. One of the reasons it took her a really long time to get longer work published, it wasn't in addition to the fact that she was trying to care for a child. She was having to kind of learn as she went, things like structure and form and all of that. I also have only read some of some of her works. By no means have I tried to do a thorough survey of all of it in the time we have to prepare a podcast. Her almost one book a year for 32 years.

[Taylor Gray]

What, you didn't buzz through 30 books real quick?

[Tia Sircar]

Well, difficult. Difficult.

[Taylor Gray]

What are you, a quitter? I am working on an episode upcoming about a writer that I love. And even revisiting all of their works is like, yeah. Taking some effort and time.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah.

[Taylor Gray]

A lot of audiobook action going on.

[Tia Sircar]

Yeah. If you want to send us a note about this or any other podcast or history [e-mail] whatever is coming up for you on your weekend, I hope it is as good and smooth as possible. If you've got stuff in your life happening right now, I know a lot of us do stuff that's not great. I hope you're able to take some moments for yourself, to take some deep breaths, maybe get yourself a little treat of some sort. Maybe just sit under a tree where things are starting to turn green and bloom here in the northern hemisphere, if you're in the southern hemisphere, getting ready to look at the oncoming of winter, I hope it's going to be a great winter.

[Taylor Gray]

Indeed. Indeed.

[Tia Sircar]

I guess autumn is closer because we're getting just about to spring. We're not exactly to summer yet. I just visited my parents and was able to cut some of the earliest blooming flowers in the yard to bring in to my mom. So yeah, nice. We will be back with a Saturday classic tomorrow and with something brand new on Monday. Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Cheekies]

Hey y'all, it's your girl, Cheekies. And I'm back with a brand new season of your favorite podcast, Cheekies and Chill. I'll be sharing even more personal stories with you guys and as always, you'll get my exclusion exclusive take on topics like love, personal growth, health, family ties, and more. And don't forget, I'll also be dishing out my best advice to you on episodes of Dear Cheekies. It's going to be an exciting year and I hope that you can join me. Listen to Cheekies and chill season four on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Vanessa Marshall]

Welcome to Pot of Rebellion, our new.

[Taylor Gray]

Star Wars Rebels Rewatch podcast.

[Vanessa Marshall]

I'm Vanessa Marshall, voice of Harrison Doula Specter 2. I'm Tia Sir Car Sabine Wren, Spectre 5. I'm Taylor Gray, Ezra Respector 6 and I'm Jon Librody, the Ghost Crew Stowaway moderator. Each week we're gonna rewatch and discuss an episode from the series and share some fun behind the scenes stories. Sometimes we'll be visited by special guests like Steve blum voices Zabarellio Spectre 4.

[Tia Sircar]

Or Dante Bosco voices Jake Hell and many others.

[Vanessa Marshall]

So hang on because it's gonna be a fun ride. Cue listen to Potter Rebellion on the.

[Taylor Gray]

Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. From the producers who brought you Princess of South beach comes a new podcast, the Setup. The setup follows a lonely museum curator, but when the perfect man walks into his life.

[Vanessa Marshall]

Well, I guess I'm saying I like you, you like me.

[Taylor Gray]

He actually is too good to be true.

[Vanessa Marshall]

This is a con. I'm conning you to get the Dilano painting. We could do this together.

[Taylor Gray]

Listen to the setup on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Vanessa Marshall]

I'm Emila, host of the podcast Crumbs. For years I had to rely on other people to tell me my story and What I heard wasn't good. You? Really? Last night, it felt like I lived most of my life in a blackout. I was trapped in addiction. I had to grab the lamp and smashed it against the walls. And then I decided I wanted to tell my own story. Listen to crumbs on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.