Behind the Scenes Minis: Mountains and Glaciers

Summary

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Episode Overview

Podcast: Stuff You Missed in History Class
Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Mountains and Glaciers
Air Date: December 19, 2025
Hosts: Tracy V. Wilson & Holly Fry

This behind-the-scenes minisode offers reflections and extra context related to the week’s main episode on Walter Harper and the first successful summit of Denali (Mount McKinley), with added commentary about Hudson Stuck—one of the expedition leaders—Alaska Native history, glaciers, cold-weather expeditions, and the cultural impact of children's shows like Molly of Denali. The hosts discuss sources, historical language, climate change, and personal anecdotes, blending historical insight with contemporary relevance and light-hearted moments.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Walter Harper, Hudson Stuck, and the First Ascent of Denali

• Tracy and Holly reflect on the week’s episode focusing on Walter Harper and the Harper-led Denali summit, emphasizing both the technical achievements and the personal stories involved.
• Hudson Stuck is highlighted as a major historical source, with Tracy noting the value and caveats of his documentation.
• Discussion on Stuck’s writing:
  • Historical Language: Tracy cautions that Stuck’s use of terms for Alaska Native peoples is often outdated or inappropriate by modern standards, though he [Stuck] was in some ways "more progressive...than a lot of other people" of his time. (06:53)
  • Public Domain Books: Many of Stuck’s works on Alaska are freely available and provide valuable primary accounts.

2. Molly of Denali: Representation and Cancellation

• Tracy talks about the PBS Kids show Molly of Denali, its educational value, and the recently-announced cancellation due to various reasons, including decreased PBS funding.
  • The special episode “Molly and the Great One” interweaves Molly’s family with the narrative of Harper’s expedition and highlights Alaska Native perspectives.
  • Tracy describes how she found the episode via YouTube and humorously discusses disrupting her husband’s algorithm with children’s programming.
  • The show’s cancellation is lamented as a loss for representation and storytelling in children’s media.
  • Quote (Tracy, 05:11): ". . . Molly of Denali has very sadly been canceled. . . . the gutting of PBS funding by the federal government. So, like, that's part of it."

3. Further Reading and Resources on the Denali Expedition

• Several recommended sources for deeper exploration:
  • The 70 Mile: The Lost Legacy of Harry Karstens and the First Ascent of Mount McKinley by Tom Walker (2013)
  • Walter Harper: Alaska Native Son by Mary F. Ehrlander
  • No major standalone biography exists for Hudson Stuck, but his books are accessible online.

4. Glaciers, Climate Change, and Personal Anecdotes

• The Muldrow Glacier—the route taken by Harper’s team—is discussed as the historic and (until recently) primary path to Denali’s summit. Tracy and Holly explain that its usage has declined after recent surges linked to glacial instability.
  • Holly, 07:41: “I imagine it, like many things, is being affected by the warmer temperatures.”
• Both hosts recount personal experiences from a recent trip to Iceland, observing rapid glacier melting and land uplift due to diminishing ice weight.
  • Tracy, 08:09: ". . . they had a whole display that was about the loss of glaciers in Iceland and in addition to the glaciers melting, how the weight of the glaciers not being there causes the land to lift, causing multiple intersecting problems. A giant bummer. Climate change is real. It is largely caused by human activity, including the burning of fossil fuels."
• The episode emphasizes the gravity of climate change, underscoring both scientific and lived experiences.

5. Walter Harper’s Legacy and Lost Potential

• Tracy relates what she learned from Mary F. Ehrlander’s biography and interview:
  • Harper is considered a hero by many Alaska Native people.
  • Post-expedition Alaska saw significant changes for Native communities, including the Indian Reorganization Act, self-governance, and land redistribution.
  • Harper, due to his bicultural background and charisma, “had the potential to be a connecting point” between Native and white communities.
  • His early death is widely viewed as a tragedy for Alaska Native advocacy.
  • Tracy, 10:28: “And how influential and important he could have been to all of that, given his personality. . . . [he] had the potential to like, really be a connecting point in a way that would hopefully help the Native peoples of Alaska.”

6. Tone, Humor, and Light Closure

• The tone shifts to lighten what Tracy calls the “sad note” of Harper’s premature death:
  • Holly jokes that she imagined Hudson Stuck as “an Episcopalian version of Yukon Cornelius” before looking him up (11:46).
  • The hosts note that the Denali expedition, while dangerous, was more successful and cooperative than most polar expeditions covered on the show.
    • Tracy, 12:19: “Of all the various expeditions to a place... it does seem to have gone better than any of the rest of them.”
  • The importance of appropriate footwear and gear for cold-weather expeditions is discussed as both a historical observation and a bit of weekend advice for listeners.

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Notable Quotes and Memorable Moments

• Tracy (06:53):
  “I will say the language that [Hudson Stuck] uses about like the native peoples of Alaska, some of it is language that was commonly used at the time and is really not Native nation's own preferred terminology today.”
• Holly (07:41):
  “I imagine it, like many things, is being affected by the warmer temperatures.”
• Tracy (08:09):
  "Climate change is real. It is largely caused by human activity, including the burning of fossil fuels.”
• Tracy (10:28):
  “He had the potential to like, really be a connecting point in a way that would hopefully help the Native peoples of Alaska.”

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Important Timestamps

• 02:19 — Show opens: Reflections on Denali and Walter Harper
• 03:37 — Molly of Denali: PBS Kids show, special episode, and cancellation
• 05:11 — Impact of PBS funding cuts on Molly of Denali
• 06:53 — On Hudson Stuck’s writing and period language about Alaska Natives
• 07:41 — Discussing the Muldrow Glacier and climate impacts
• 08:09 — Personal anecdotes from Iceland; the loss of glaciers and climate change
• 09:02 — Walter Harper remembered as a hero among Alaska Native peoples
• 10:28 — Harper’s lost potential as a bridge between Native and white Alaskans
• 11:46 — Holly’s humorous mental picture of Hudson Stuck
• 12:19 — The Denali expedition’s relative success and team spirit
• 13:42 — Footwear and gear lessons from history, friendly advice for winter trekkers

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Tone and Closing Thoughts

Tracy and Holly blend thoughtful historical analysis with personal stories and humor, acknowledging sorrowful aspects of history while steering the conversation toward both practical relevance (climate change, representation in media, cold weather safety) and lighter moments. The segment closes with encouragement to listeners, especially those venturing outdoors, to learn from history and be well-prepared.

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Transcript

[Tracy V. Wilson]

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[Holly Fry]

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[Cal Penn]

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[Tracy V. Wilson]

I'm Ed Helms.

[Cal Penn]

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[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

All this week we talked about Walter Harper and the summiting of Denali and also a lot about Hudson's story Duck, who was a big source of the information about that expedition and about Harper's life.

[Holly Fry]

And so much cold weather.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And so much cold weather. I Want to talk about Molly of Denali? Okay. So I knew about Molly of Denali before. I don't have kids. I'm not around a lot of kids. So, like, I've never really watched a lot of Molly of Denali, but after getting served this clip about Halloween on Halloween and being inspired for this episode, I discovered totally by accident and just trying. I was like, trying to confirm the details of this clip, so I was gonna describe it correctly. There is also a whole episode that's an hour long special episode of Molly of Denali, which is called Molly and the Great One. And the story of that one is that Molly finds out that her grandfather wanted to summit Denali when he was a young man. And things. Things happened and he had not been able to do it. So Molly and her friends start trying to find a way for her grandfather to summit Denali. And so the story of Molly and her family is interspersed with the story of Walter Harper and the expedition. In the world of Molly of Denali. Molly's father is named Walter and is named for Walter Harper and is Koyukon. Molly's best friend, Tui is also Koyakan. And then Molly has, like, multiple Alaska native Alaska lineages from the two sides of her family. I was like, well, I obviously need to go watch this episode of Molly of Denali now. And since I contribute to pbs, I have the PBS app and the PBS Kids app, and the episode was not on either of those two things. And so I used the search function on the smart TV to try to find it. And what I wound up finding was it was on YouTube with ASL interpretation. And I realized that YouTube on the smart TV was signed in under Patrick's account. And I was like, well, Patrick, I'm just gonna. I'm gonna Mess up your YouTube algorithm by watching Molly of Denali locked in as you. He was. He was not. I just texted him to be like, hey, by the way, if you're suddenly getting programming or children's programming in your YouTube, it's my fault. Molly of Denali has very sadly been canceled. I think it has one more season that is coming out, and it also has been canceled for multiple reasons. The. The people that are involved with the show have made it clear that, like, it's not any one thing, but one of the things is the gutting of PBS funding by the federal government. So, like, that's part of it. I have heard so many great things about that show in spite of the fact that I haven't personally watched any of it until this Clip. And then watching Molly and the Great one on Patrick's YouTube account. There are a ton of books about this expedition to Denali. And then there are also books about some of the people involved who. None of which I read while researching this, but I did just want to say they exist if people are interested in learning more. There's a biography of Harry Carstens which is called the 70 mile, the lost Legacy of Harry Karstens and the first ascent of Mount McKinley that is by Tom Walker. It came out in, I think, 2013. And then there's a pretty new book about Walter Harper called Walter Alaska Native Son that is by Mary F. Earlander. I don't know of a biography that is specifically about Hudson. Stuck. Some of the books about the expedition are focused largely on him, but I think all of his books that are about Alaska, they are all in the public domain and I think all of them are [e-mail] so they are easy to get to. If you want to read more of his reading, I will say the language that he uses about like the native peoples of Alaska, some of it is language that was commonly used at the time and is really not Native nation's own preferred terminology today.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And some of it is stuff that was like, that was insensitive at the time and it's still insensitive. But as we said in the episode, in a lot of ways I feel like he was more progressive and more focused on autonomy and preservation of indigenous customs and life ways than a lot of other people. Random side note, the Muldrow glacier that they climbed to get up to Denali continued to be a primary route to get to the summit until it surged. And I think it surged in the 1950s and there was like a sort of a temporary stoppage in people using it as much to try to get to the summit. It also surged very recently, like within the last couple of years. And I think people are not using that glacier as a route to the summit of Denali at the moment.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, I mean, I imagine it, like many things, is being affected by the warmer temperatures.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

For sure.

[Holly Fry]

You know, we, when we were in Iceland last year, a lot of our guides when we would do various excursions pointed out like, hey, if you had been here a few years ago, these glaciers were a lot bigger.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And our trip on a glacier was canceled because it was melting, because it.

[Holly Fry]

Was so soft we couldn't do what we wanted to do there. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Anyway, so I'm ruzzles, but it is what it is.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I went to a natural history museum while we were in Iceland on like the day that we arrived, because it was the earliest thing that was open and Patrick and I had landed at like 4 in the morning or something. Perlin, I think, was the name of the natural history museum. And they had a whole display that was about the loss of glaciers in Iceland and in addition to the glaciers melting, how the weight of the glaciers not being there causes the land to lift, causing multiple intersecting problems. A giant bummer. Climate change is real. It is largely caused by human activity, including the burning of fossil fuels. And yes, sometimes glaciers do surge for other reasons, but there are a lot.

[Holly Fry]

Of glaciers that have surged in recent years all at the same time.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. And are receding in various ways as they melt. All kinds of stuff as, from what I understand, a lot of people in Alaska and a lot of Alaska Native people see Walter Harper as a hero, as his life, as we said, was very tragically cut short. The author, Mary F. Earlander, who wrote a biography of him, I watched a talk that she gave and she talked about a lot of the changes that came to Alaska after the 19 teens, and a lot of which were really monumental for the Alaska Native population. Some of these are things that we've talked about on the show before, like the Indian Reorganization act that tried to enable indigenous nations to have more self governance and more autonomy. And some of it was like the land redistributions that happened in Alaska and how influential and important he could have been to all of that, given his personality being a big part of it, because he was extremely personable and charismatic and kind and devoted and people really admired him. And then also the fact that he had been raised in Koi Khan Athabaskan traditions and also had so much experience with like Hudson Stuck and his missionary work and the white religious community in Alaska, and had the potential to like, really be a connecting point in a way that would hopefully help the Native peoples of Alaska.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

It's a pity.

[Holly Fry]

We mentioned at the end of the show that there has been a lot of speculation about what he would have been.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

And it's like, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Just a sad. A sad.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. As I was writing it, I got to that point and I was like, wow, this like. I mean, it came out of nowhere in real life. But we know that people listen to our podcast because they enjoy it. And so I don't like writing an episode in which everything just seems to be trucking along and then somebody dies tragically out of nowhere. Which is why I put that heads up at the Beginning of part two. Yeah. Which is not something that, you know. When someone, when the subject of a podcast, dies at the age of 80 safe in their bed, that's not something we warn about at the beginning.

[Holly Fry]

Since that is sort of a sad note. Do you want a ridiculous thing to end on?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I absolutely do.

[Holly Fry]

When I was looking over your outline, I specifically. Because often what I will do if it's involves a person or something that I'm not familiar with, I will do a quick Internet search just so I have a visual in my head.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

And I specifically did not on this one, because as I read through it in my head, the picture that formed of Hudson stuck was an Episcopalian version of Yukon Cornelius. And I was like, that's funny. I would like to hang onto this.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

As long as possible, please. I love that. And now that I have googled him.

[Holly Fry]

I'm like, oh, you are sadly gaunt.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

You don't look like Yukon Cornelius at all. Like it's his fault somehow.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

They needed a bumble on this mission and then everything would have been fine.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, it is. Of all the various expeditions to a place, you know, polar environments, things like that, that we've talked about on the show, it does seem to have gone better than any of the rest of them.

[Holly Fry]

Yes. Because they were all experienced people who understood what was happening.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah. And it seems like they were all like, mutually dedicated to the safety of the whole expedition.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Which has not been the case in every expedition we had ever talked about. So. Yeah. That was Walter Harper. We will have the SS Princess Sophia episode as a classic tomorrow. Cause it's been some years since that came out. I didn't remember that. When I wrote that episode, I mentioned that Walter Harper had died in it. So if folks have heard that episode recently enough, they did not need the heads up at the beginning of Part two. So anyway, hoping whatever's happening on your weekend, I hope it's going great. If you are going into some cold weather, hiking, camping situations, I hope you have gear that's maybe a little more lightweight, but also. But also serviceable than some of what they were hauling around on that trip.

[Holly Fry]

I hope you can find appropriate shoes or footwear that to me is so miserable to contemplate.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. Well. And it made sense to me that what they wound up working with was like the shoes that local people have been wearing for. For generations. Like that totally makes sense. But the idea that they were having alpine boots that were going to be way too tight with that many socks, would it be awful? So I hope if you're hiking you have great footwear that's working for you. Doing its job. We will be back with that Saturday classic tomorrow and we have something brand new on Monday. Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Cal Penn]

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[Tracy V. Wilson]

10 more presents to wrap. You're almost at the finish line, but first. Ah, there. The last one. Enjoy a Coca Cola for a pause that refreshes.

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[Tracy V. Wilson]

This is an iheart podcast. Guaranteed human.