Behind the Scenes Minis: Odd Baby Train

Summary

Podcast Summary: Stuff You Missed in History Class

Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Odd Baby Train

Hosts: Tracy B. Wilson & Holly Fry
Date: January 30, 2026

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Overview

In this Behind the Scenes Minis episode, Tracy and Holly have a lighthearted yet thoughtful conversation reflecting on their two recent main episodes: one about the historical medical condition rickets (with a detour into baby illustrations in ancient medical texts), and another about engineer and “Father of Railways” George Stephenson. The hosts chat about quirky historical tidbits, their own experiences with modern medicine, and share personal takes on the evolution of public transport. The tone is friendly, warmly nerdy, and occasionally comedic.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Reflections on the Rickets Episode

Timestamps: 02:26–16:51

Why Another Vitamin Deficiency Episode?

• Tracy explains her interest in vitamin deficiency diseases but didn't want to do rickets immediately after scurvy and pellagra to avoid overdoing the theme.

  “People might get tired of hearing about my fixation with vitamin deficiency diseases.” – Tracy (02:34)

Ceranus of Ephesus and Hilariously Bizarre Baby Anatomy Illustrations

• The hosts share a tangent about Ceranus of Ephesus’ ancient gynecology book, particularly its unintentionally comical anatomical illustrations of fetuses:

  “Why am I looking at a fully grown man in the devil's water bottle?” – Tracy's friend, recounted by Tracy (04:23)
  “If people looked like tiny adults when they were born, I might be less weirded out by it...” – Holly (04:53)

• They riff on how some old art depicts babies as miniature adults, to unintentionally humorous effect (05:09–05:29).

The Trend of Routine Vitamin D Testing

• Tracy mentions a period when doctors regularly tested her vitamin D and recommended supplements due to her working underground and limited sun exposure.
• She notes the medical consensus shifted, finding universal vitamin D screening and supplementation isn’t always beneficial:

  “It doesn’t seem like there is a net benefit to across the board testing people's vitamin D levels and giving most people supplementation.” – Tracy (06:13)

How Art History Can Mislead Medical Interpretation

• Holly wonders if mannerist art—with its surreal, elongated limbs—could be mistaken for depictions of rickets rather than artistic style (07:25–07:58).

Rickets, Wealth, and the Medici Family

• Tracy references how several Medici children’s bones show signs of rickets, possibly due to wealthy practices of sheltering infants from the sun:

  “That had led to some speculation that the Medici were all keeping their babies inside and out of the sun…not getting enough vitamin D.” – Tracy (10:50)

• Both hosts clarify: breastfeeding is good, but sometimes supplemental vitamin D is recommended for breastfed babies.

Ethics in Medical Research

• The hosts discuss how many historical vitamin studies would be considered unethical today, particularly withholding known treatments from control groups, and how these ethics influence modern vaccine trials (12:06–13:10).

Notable Women in Rickets Research

• Tracy regrets not being able to include more about Harriet Chick, a pioneering but historically overlooked researcher on rickets (13:10–13:34).

Cod Liver Oil in Popular Culture

• Holly shares nostalgia about cod liver oil’s constant appearance in old literature and cartoons, laughingly recalling Iceland’s tradition of providing cod liver oil at breakfast:

  “One of the hotels…just a bottle of cod liver oil on the breakfast buffet with…shot glasses.” – Tracy (14:15)

• The discussion meanders to Omega-3s, sardine consumption, and the enduring ‘fish burps’ from modern supplements, with relatable anecdotes (15:54–16:49).

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2. Reflections on the George Stephenson Episode

Timestamps: 19:26–32:09

George Stephenson’s Overlooked Personal Quirks

• Holly points out that many engineering histories leave out Stephenson’s odd and endearing qualities:
  • His pet blackbird that slept with him.
  • Sewing skills, including making his son’s suit and teaching embroidery to girls:

    “He says to them, ‘When I was a brakesman at Killingworth, I learned the art of embroidery while working the pitman's buttonholes by the engine fire at night.’” – Holly (24:07)

Stories from Stephenson’s Life

• Holly recounts his only fistfight (against a famously bigger bully) and childhood anecdotes of hiding during mine inspections. (21:07–22:14)
• Tracy laughs at the tale of Stephenson inventing a way to grow straight cucumbers (19:57–20:02).

Engineering Intuition and Tinkering

• Stephenson’s intuition as a mechanic is highlighted, especially his bold decision to “overclock” a Newcomen engine, pushing it beyond labeled specs successfully—a risky move that could have had explosive consequences (22:17–23:05).

Stephenson’s Humility and Generosity

• He regretted not learning to read earlier, thinking it would have saved time and mistakes in his inventions.
• Stephenson’s generosity is praised: he often supported families of miners killed on his watch and kept in touch with people from humble backgrounds:

  “He would often just, like, make it his business to take care of that family for...the rest of his life.” – Holly (26:30) “Stand up guy, that George Stephenson. I'm going to be very sad if I find out he was secretly a monster, but it doesn't seem like he was.” – Holly (27:00)

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3. Modern Reflections on Trains and Public Transit

Timestamps: 27:36–32:09

• Tracy advocates for better rail infrastructure in the U.S.:

  “We should have more trains than we have, and they should be better than they are. That's my opinion.” – Tracy (28:20)

• Both bemoan the inefficiency of current U.S. transit systems and cite Japan as a shining example of effective high-speed rail.
• Holly admits she enjoys car commutes for the solitude, but both wish trains were a more practical option in the U.S.
• Shared nostalgia for functional public transit systems in European cities (Paris, London).
• Concludes with wishes for kindness and a smooth ride for weekend train travelers:

  “Any eek out we can make of kindness feels like a little bit of a win.” – Holly (32:45)

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Notable Quotes & Memorable Moments

• “Why am I looking at a fully grown man in the devil’s water bottle?” – Tracy (via her friend), on old fetal diagrams (04:23)
• “If people looked like tiny adults when they were born, I might be less weirded out by it.” – Holly (04:53)
• “Did that model have rickets or was this just like how the artist was depicting baby? We don't know.” – Tracy (08:40)
• “The original indoor children.” – Holly, joking about the Medici babies (10:50)
• “He says to them, ‘When I was a brakesman at Killingworth, I learned the art of embroidery while working the pitman's buttonholes by the engine fire at night.’” – Holly, quoting Stephenson (24:07)
• “We should have more trains than we have, and they should be better than they are.” – Tracy (28:20)
• “Any eek out we can make of kindness feels like a little bit of a win.” – Holly (32:45)

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Timestamps for Important Segments

• Intro & Vitamin Deficiency Theme: 02:26–03:28
• Ceranus of Ephesus and Baby Art: 03:28–05:29
• Vitamin D Testing Trend: 05:48–07:25
• Art History & Depictions of Rickets: 07:25–08:40
• Medici Rickets & Breastfeeding: 09:36–11:19
• Ethics in Medical Research: 12:06–13:10
• Cod Liver Oil Nostalgia: 13:34–16:49
• George Stephenson’s Quirks & Stories: 19:26–27:36
• Rail Infrastructure Discussion: 27:36–32:09
• Positive Closing & Wishes for Listeners: 32:09–32:58

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Tone & Delivery

• Light, nerdy, humorous; personal anecdotes and friendly critiques; good-hearted encouragement toward listener kindness and self-care.

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This episode provides playful yet insightful commentary on both the oddities of medical history and the quirks of a famous engineer, ending with thoughtful reflections (and a gentle rant) on the importance of better trains. Ideal for listeners who enjoy history with a side of personal connection and a dash of laughs.

Transcript

[Tracy B. Wilson]

This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.

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[Holly Fry]

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[Betrayal Podcast Narrator]

In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband Mike was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.

[Betrayal Podcast Character]

I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately the mask came off.

You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband.

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[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

We talked about rickets this week.

[Holly Fry]

We sure did.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I have had rickets on my list for a while. I didn't want to do it immediately after the one about scurvy or the one about pellagra. Because I. People might get tired of hearing about my fixation with vitamin deficiency diseases.

[Holly Fry]

I mean, we all have our things. It's fine.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

We do. We do. I also knew that I had enough of the, like, the underpinning knowledge that it would be a relatively easy episode. So it would be helping with the on ramp from having taken some time off over the holidays, returning to normal working time. A couple of things that came up. One, we talked about Serranus of Ephesus. Was his name Serranus or Solanus? I don't remember either way. Writing.

[Holly Fry]

I was telling you. You know who I'm talking about?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

That guy, the guy we mentioned. The guy during the Roman era who wrote a book on gynecology that included a section on baby care, caring for newborns. Ceranus of Ephesus. I of course, looked this up because I wanted to see exactly what he had to say.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And this text includes some hilarious pictures of anatomy and I don't know, I didn't look into it. Find to find out are these things that he drew and included are these things some other commenter drew and included with a later edition? Not sure, but they are pictures supposedly of fetal gestation right in. In the uterus.

[Holly Fry]

Okay.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I showed them to. To the friends in the group chat because they were so ridiculous. And one of them said, why am I looking at a full. A fully grown man in the devil's water bottle? And I was like, that's a great question. Because that's a perfect characterization for one of the.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, I'm looking at the. Oh, these are great.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

They are amazing. And so funny. Okay, here's what I will tell you. Okay.

[Holly Fry]

We all know I'm a little bit of a baby phobe for people that love babies. I'm so glad you do. They freak me out. If people looked like tiny adults when they were born, I might be less weirded out by it. And I'm not sure what that means.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

That's funny.

[Holly Fry]

But I love the idea of someone just like arriving on this planet in miniature form but with adult proportions.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. I mean, there. There is.

[Holly Fry]

Because they're like little dolls.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah. There are periods of art history where the babies look like tiny adults.

[Holly Fry]

Yes, for sure.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The fact that they are in what is supposed to be a uterus, but does look like the kind of old timey rubber water bottle that you would put hot water in for your cramps. Makes it more funny.

[Holly Fry]

I like how one looks like they're dipping their toe into the outside world. Like testing it. Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Checking it out. So that was one of the funniest things. We didn't talk about it at all because I really wanted the focus to be on rickets. But for a while it seemed like there was not exactly a fad, maybe more of a trend in the world of medicine to routinely test people for their vitamin D levels. And then recommend potentially supplementation based on that.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And there were a couple of physicals where I had a vitamin D test and then had a recommendation. One of these times I was working a job where I was in literally an underground space and I worked from, like, I worked the whole afternoon and evening. So if I was going to get any sun exposure, like, I had to leave the house and do things before work that would be out in the sun. And I read an article like, I'm not a doctor. I can't really make medical recommendations that would not be okay. And I did not read the entire spectrum of writing about this. But it does seem like there was eventually a. Okay, we tried this for a while. It doesn't seem like there is a net benefit to across the board testing people's vitamin D levels and giving most people supplementation. So that's. This episode was about rickets, the actual medical condition, not like the sort of low grade vitamin D deficiency that for a while there was a lot of general practitioner testing going on.

[Holly Fry]

Right. I have so many thoughts. 1. And you almost segued into this when you were talking about the full adult humans in a water bottle. I wondered, because you referenced a number of artworks where there have been questions about, like, is this depicting rickets?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And I immediately wondered, like, have there been a lot of paintings from like the era when mannerism was really popular that could have been misinterpreted this way?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Just as a quick refresher for anybody that doesn't remember, Mannerism is this era of art where people look a little bit surreal. It was very popular in the 16th century. I think I'm getting that. Right. Where bodies would be slightly elongated and limbs would be curved in ways that they don't really do. Like, instead of an elbow, you would see a curved arm kind of thing. And I'm like, I wonder if any of these people look bow legged because of mannerism and not because of deficiencies.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. And that was a general conversation in several of the things that I read, which is like, we don't really know. Did this person have rickets? Or is this like artistic license?

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Like, was the model for the baby Jesus in the painting that we talked about? Like, did that model have rickets or was this just like how the artist was depicting baby? We don't know. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I also wonder if there isn't like sort of a reflexive problem of it where, you know, you had mentioned that there have been. I'm trying to remember the name of the researcher who Determined that rickets was, like, primarily a rich people problem. And if depictions of people with rickets may have been a way to signify that they were or from the higher. Even if they didn't necessarily have it or exhibit any symptoms. Yeah, I'm sure someone has done a study of this, but now I sure am wondering.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Well, and something that I had in here that I eventually took out because it just. It felt a little out of place no matter where I put it in. The outline was about how a bunch of the Medicis all had rickets and there were a couple of them.

[Holly Fry]

Did they. Or did they get children that way?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

No, we're talking about their bones. Like their actual. Like there are. So there were at least one baby in the Medici family, who of course were. Some of the wealthiest and most powerful people of their era were described as having rickets. And then there was a study that I did not keep the details of where there was, you know, a research into the bones of a Medici family tomb and how all of the kids had signs of rickets. That does also mean these were all people who died as children. Children. It's harder to tell if, like, had they survived until adulthood, like, what would their skeletons have looked like then? That had led to some speculation that the medic were all keeping their babies inside and out of the sun, which meant that since they were almost certainly being breastfed, then they would not have been getting enough vitamin D. They're like.

[Holly Fry]

The original indoor children.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. I'm not in any way suggesting that breastfeeding is bad.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Whatever way gets the baby enough food and nutrients is the way the baby should be fed. It does seem like there's a lot of recommendation around the world for vitamin D supplements for exclusively breastfed babies. Because also not having babies with sunburns, that's important. Not just for the comfort of the baby, for the baby's future skin health.

[Holly Fry]

Did you run into anything in your research, and this may be a little too modern about the impact of the early phase of the COVID epidemic?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

No, I did not look at anything that recently.

[Holly Fry]

Ricketts numbers. Cause I'd be curious. So many folks were staying indoors all the time.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, there were a lot of people staying indoors pretty much all the time. And then as it became clearer that being outside was less risky, there were people that did the opposite and were spending more time outside.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

So that would be interesting to look at. Something that we mentioned is that some of these studies that were done on babies and small children would not be thought of as Ethical today because there were kids in a control group who were not getting.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, it's troubling.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Something that we knew was helpful. And this still has relevancy today because one of the anti vax talking points is that there are vaccines on the market today that did not have, like, a placebo group comparison in the study. The reason that we didn't have a placebo group comparison in the study is that we already know that the measles vaccine prevents measles. So if you are instead giving children a placebo, you are exposing them to measles, a dangerous disease.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

So when new versions of vaccines come. Come out, usually the test is to compare the new vaccine to the previous one, not to intentionally expose children to the disease that the vaccine prevents.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Ethics in Medical Research, people.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. It's weird.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. I wish I had more information on Harriet Chick.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Having a. Not a typical career for a woman in science, given when she lived. Yeah. And I jotted her name on the list for maybe a future episode. In the immediate looking did not seem like there was probably enough information, but who knows? That could change.

[Holly Fry]

Now I'm just thinking about Cod Liver Royal and how it appears in all children's literature that I grew up with and all of the.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Cartoons that I grew up with and all of the. And it just makes me giggle. Cause now I realize. I didn't realize, of course, when you're a kid and you see it, we're kind of. You're a couple years younger than me, but we're even. I'm still kind of outside of that window when, like, everybody was administering cod liver oil to their kids at all times because of its benefits. And I remember being like, why? Why are they doing this to these people in books and cartoons? And I didn't really learn until much later. Oh. Cause it's considered, you know, full of essential and exciting and healthy things.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right. When Patrick and I were on our honeymoon in Iceland, one of the hotels that we stayed at had just a bottle of cod liver oil on the breakfast buffet with little. Little basically shot glasses where you could just get yourself a shot of the cod liver oil with your breakfast. And at the time I was like, I was thinking mostly of, you know, cultural things. It did not really connect in my brain until doing this. That Iceland is a place that is at a northern latitude. We were there in the early spring when the sun was not setting until like, 10pm yeah. But the sun was also not nearly as direct as it would be in, like, the American South.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And it, it like didn't really connect. That like, that could be a reason that someone in Iceland might want some cod liver oil. A friend of ours was like, so did you try it? No.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, you have, you never had it?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Not, not as just like a shot of it in a cup. We were gonna get in the car and drive from. We were having a multi, multi hour drive back to Reykjavik before flying back home. And I was like, I did not want to just chug some cod liver oil having never experienced experience it and then get in a car for a long drive not knowing when we might find a restroom.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, that's fair. I mean, you know, I'm unwise and will try anything. So I have tried it. It's fine. Yeah, that's exactly what you think. But I also sometimes just take fish oil supplements.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh sure. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

In a pill form.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I always crack up that now most of the bottles will tout no fish burps.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. I think I mentioned in a recent episode that I had had a, had a medical appointment at which an OB GYN recommended that I try to get more Omega 3s in my diet which has involved eating more sardines and salmon. And so I was, as I was working on this, I was like, maybe my vitamin C is doing good. Probably my added, added salmon and sardines in my mouth.

[Holly Fry]

But do you have fish burps is the bigger question.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Not usually. I did have like a very, a very sardini. I don't even remember what I made. But later I did have a little fish burp and I was like, no thanks, it's okay.

[Holly Fry]

It's all part of living.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

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[Betrayal Podcast Narrator]

In the middle of the night, Saskia awoke in a haze. Her husband Mike was on his laptop. What was on his screen would change Saskia's life forever.

[Betrayal Podcast Character]

I said, I need you to tell me exactly what you're doing. And immediately the mask came off.

You're supposed to be safe. That's your home. That's your husband.

[Betrayal Podcast Narrator]

To keep this secret for so many years, he's like a seasoned pro. This is a story about the end of a marriage, but it's also the story of one woman who was done living in the dark.

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[Holly Fry]

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[Holly Fry]

We talked about George Stephenson this week.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

We did.

[Holly Fry]

I really like him.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

It's very interesting because there are a couple of full length biographies written of him, but then everywhere else you see, like, he comes up in a lot of places because he was so important to engineering, but they cut out so much of the really interesting parts of his life. Right. They don't talk about his pet blackbird that slept with him. They don't talk about all of his mad sewing skills, which we're going to talk about in a minute.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Growing a straight, straight cucumber.

[Holly Fry]

I had to include that. I was like, should I put this in behind the scenes?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yes. No, no.

[Holly Fry]

It was his invention. He was proud of it. I don't know why it was so important to him to grow a straight cucumber. They're delicious even if they're curved, but it made me chuckle a little bit. There were so many cute stories, though, about him and that Smiles biography that was written in the mid 19th century. Smiles, as you may recall, wrote a book called Self Help after he had met with Stevenson, got hired by him, and then later on wrote a biography about him. It's a really interesting biography because it is very thorough. And also he notates every person he talked to and got information from where he'll be. Like, I talked to this person in this Village. And they told me this story. It's like a much more notated biography from that time than we're accustomed to seeing. In that he shows his work, which is pretty great. One of the many stories that I loved Slash hated. Right. I don't love the idea of children working in a coal mine, honestly. But there was this cute thing because George was clearly very smart from a young age. And he had kind of gotten moved up into jobs even early for his age. Even given that it was standard practice to employ kids, that at one point he had been promoted and he was working with his dad. But whenever the owner of the mine came out, he had to go hide. Cause he was like. I was also very tiny and I looked really young. So, like, we were scared I was gonna get in trouble if this guy saw me. And it looked like a 12 year old was running a really expensive piece of equipment. That just was very funny to me. He also had one only fistfight in his entire life. And it was because there was a pitman at the Black Callerton mine who was kind of a notorious bully. And George stood up to him and this guy threatened him and said, like, you know, essentially, do you want to take it outside? George is George half this guy's size, this little scrawny dude. And he goes, yeah. And they had this fight. But it was a fight club scenario where you gotta watch out for the wiry ones because apparently George whipped this guy's tail.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Wow.

[Holly Fry]

Again, violence is never the answer. But I do like it when bullies get comeuppance.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

One of the other things that was very interesting about his intuition as an engineer and as a mechanic was when he had to fix that Newcomen engine. That essentially set him on a path to like, a much higher level of professional career, which is that he essentially overclocked that thing. Like, he was putting the settings at like double what they were labeled as being able to handle.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Well, I'm glad that. But he really.

[Holly Fry]

He really felt like, I know this machine and I know it can handle it and it's not doing its job. So I want to try this and we'll see if it works. And it did. Huh. So, yeah, his intuition was apparently very good. But that would also terrify me.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. I mean, that sounds like a recipe for another explosion.

[Holly Fry]

Yes, it does. But it never happened. I do want to talk about his sewing.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, let's do.

[Holly Fry]

Because we mentioned in the episode that, like, I had read in one place that he was cutting out sewing projects for women. And like, Basically, he was taking piecework where he would cut their stuff out and return it to them, and then they could just stitch it up, which I know to a lot of stitchers that are listening, are like, where can I get one of those? But it didn't come up everywhere. But then later in the Smiles biography in particular, he mentions that when he first sent Robert to school, you know, they were still. I mean, he was doing better than he ever had, but compared to the other kids at Robert's school, he was very poor. And he was wearing a homemade suit that George had made for him. That's the sweetest thing I've ever heard. But there is also another cute story, which is that when he was out surveying, and granted, this is a different time in a different place, but, like, he would walk those survey lines and he would just kind of stop at people's houses and be like, hey, can I have lunch here? Yeah, yeah, and talk to them. And he really loved talking to kids. And at one point, I don't remember if it was there, if it was when he was, like, when he was doing that, or if it was when he was in a meeting, he was talking to these two little girls who were learning embroidery, and he was like, do you want me to teach you some stitches? And they looked at him completely confused because men normally did not embroider, nor did they offer very sweetly to teach them stitches. And he says to them, quote, when I was a brakesman at Killingworth, I learned the art of embroidery while working the pitman's buttonholes by the engine fire at night. And I just love that. He was like, I don't care about blue collar work. I'll do anything. I'm a hustler.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I know how to do lots of stuff because I'm interested in lots of stuff. And I think that's great. My last note on him is this.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

He apparently, I'm not gonna read the whole quote, but there's a really beautiful quote in that Smiles biography where George's one big regret is that because he didn't learn to read until later in life, there were a lot of things he was working on, trying to invent that. He was like, if I had been able to read books and know that other people had tried things, it would have saved me a lot of time and embarrassment because I made foolish mistakes, or sometimes I thought I had invented something only to discover that it had existed already for a long time. But that having to, like, figure things out on his own without the benefit of having Learned from the work of other people. Also made him more inventive and probably more ingenious in terms of his mechanical ability. And I kind of love that. Yeah, he seems like a delightful human who was just very kind. He was very generous. He took care of a lot of people. Like, if this was not standard practice at the time, this was not a time when things like workman's comp and, like, payouts for accidents happened.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh, sure.

[Holly Fry]

Working in mining. And once he got to a certain level where he was a manager and if somebody got killed in the mine, he would often just, like, make it his business to take care of that family for the rest of their lives. The rest of his life anyway, which was not normal for, you know, anybody in that position to do. And he also would just. You know, there was another story about when he was out just stopping by people's houses and being like, hey, can I have lunch with you? One couple that seemed a little reluctant initially, but then let him in. And he was super charming and they really loved him. And then later in life, when he got much more successful, he made a point to go see them again and, like, tell them how much he appreciated their generosity and their hospitality and, like, just. Stand up, guy, that George Stephenson. I'm gonna be very sad if I find out he was secretly a monster, but it doesn't seem like he was. We can put him right up there with Levi Strauss, as probably has some flaws we don't know about, but overall, a rare good guy. Yeah. Oh, did you have any thoughts?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I'm just pro trains. You did, you know, you didn't mention, like, the. The robber barons and the railroad tycoons and. Yeah, there's. There's a layer of obvious damaging stuff there, but there's also the fact that trains can be a more efficient way to travel than, like, an airplane. And we don't have enough of them in the United States. And the ones that we do have aren't as great as they could be. Yeah, there's a layer of that, too, involving, you know, where train tracks go and the fact that a lot of times that train development displaces the most vulnerable people.

[Holly Fry]

Yes.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Like, that's the thing to take into consideration. But we. We should have more trains than we have, and they should be better than they are. That's my opinion.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

That includes light rail and within cities that are a lot more. Way more efficient than cars.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

In a lot of places, they would be if there were more of them and they worked better.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. I mean, I. I feel like. Right. The obvious example of like pushing trains to be a more viable option than other modes of transportation is Japan because they have figured out the speed angle like that. I think for a lot of people is the thing. Right. To get from here to San Francisco, it takes me a flight of five hours, but by train, see, in a few days. So that's another big thing holding that industry back in terms of garnering more patrons.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. Even in the context of a city, it often takes significantly longer for me to get somewhere on like the commuter rail and T system in Boston that it would take in a car. And often I'm like, I'd rather be on the train. So I'll take this hour long trip on the train. That would have been half an hour in the car because I like the train better.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

But a lot of people aren't going to do that, especially if what they're talking about doing is their morning commute. That would be much longer on a train than in a car.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. I mean, when we moved offices at one point, when we first started working together, when I joined House of Works, I took the train all the time.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Cause we had a train station right next to our office.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

It was still a little bit of a pain in the tuckus. Cause I had to be driven to the train station and that was a little slow, but whatever. And then when we moved to the next location, it became not tenable to take the train anymore.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

You had to take a shuttle from the train station to the office. And that just was a whole other layer of stuff. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And the train ride itself was much longer because I had to switch train. Like there wasn't a direct. It just was a pain and it became less tenable. I am also, I'm embarrassed to admit, I am a person that loves being in my car. I love the solitude of being in the car.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I don't mind traffic. It's very Zen for me to just sit in the car. I can't be on my phone. Well, I can't be on my phone now. I can't be checking email.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I'm just in the car.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. When the house stuff works. Office was next to that train station. When I was living in an apartment, I lived like right down the street and I just drove. It was. I was right down the street, meaning not walking distance, but a fast and easy drive. And then I moved to a place where I was like, I'm gonna take marta. And I would drive to the MARTA station and then Take MARTA the rest of the way. And there was a series of service cuts that got to a point where it was going to be an hour and 20 to an hour and 30 minutes if I kept doing that. And it was 25 minutes in the car going the back way that one of our co workers showed me. Yeah. And that was. I was like, no, I can't. I. I gotta. I gotta have some more of my time back.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. Yeah. That's the big trick for a lot of people. You know, in cities like New York, where traffic is so, so bad, the train often is the better option.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Or Paris, where the trains were every two minutes near the station where we were. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

London is your.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

That's my being nostalgic and wistful about trains.

[Holly Fry]

Trains. Perhaps one day. One day we'll get more robust train options.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

But in any case, if you have to take the train this weekend, or you want to take the train this weekend, I hope it's a delightful ride. I hope everybody's cool. I hope there are no malfunctions. I hope everybody is kind to one another and that you get some time to relax and recharge. And if you have to work these days coming up, I hope everyone that you encounter is absolutely kind to you and that there are no needless headaches at your job. I just want everybody to. To be kind and happy to one another. We're living in such a scary time that any. Any eek out we can make of kindness feels like a little bit of a whim. So do that while you are also figuring out other ways to help. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode. And then on Monday, we will have something brand new.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.