Behind the Scenes Minis: Pollution Olympics

Summary

Stuff You Missed in History Class

Episode: Behind the Scenes Minis: Pollution Olympics
Date: February 6, 2026
Hosts: Tracy B. Wilson & Holly Frey
Producer: iHeartPodcasts

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Episode Overview

In this week's "Behind the Scenes Minis" episode, Tracy and Holly discuss their main stories from the week: John Evelyn's "Fumifugium" (the 17th-century treatise on air pollution), the connection between air quality and social justice, memorable stories from their coverage of women in the Olympic Games, and the impact of environmental and gender debates—past and present. The conversation is candid, weaving in personal anecdotes, frustration with policy, and lighter moments about flower gardens and accidental police chases.

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Key Discussion Points & Insights

1. Revisiting John Evelyn and "Fumifugium"

• Origins of the Episode: Tracy recounts how coverage of John Evelyn and his treatise "Fumifugium" came about almost by accident—she was fascinated by the name and dove deeper, leading to “five hours later, fury” at yet another environmental injustice.
• Royalist Flattery: The hosts laugh about how overtly Evelyn flattered the King—“Oh great majesty. You the best one there's ever been.” (09:17)—and marvel at historical sycophancy.
• Evelyn’s Environmental Solutions: The episode highlights Evelyn’s proposal, like surrounding London with fragrant fields and gardens to address pollution. Holly quips that “it does sound lovely,” (11:32) and humorously suggests putting “Fumifugium” on t-shirts.

2. Air Pollution, Environmental Justice, and Social Policy

• Broader Frustrations: Tracy and Holly express their frustration with the intersection of air pollution, social justice, and recent governance:
  • Tracy explains (05:02) how adding lead to gasoline disproportionately impacted poorer neighborhoods.
  • Holly points out (06:08) the gap in electric vehicle (EV) adoption—where wealthier neighborhoods benefit from cleaner air—showing the direct connection between economic inequality and environmental inequality.
• Notable Quote:
  • “Air quality is life quality. There's no more direct way to say it.” – Holly Fry (04:55)
  • “This is why environmental justice is also racial justice and is also disability justice.” – Tracy B. Wilson (05:30)
• Personal Observations: Holly shares her experience in Tokyo, highlighting the difference in air quality due to widespread EV use (07:05), and Tracy reminisces about growing up in North Carolina when indoor smoking was the norm, affecting daily life (07:09).

3. Historical Labor and Modern Policy

• Coal Mining Reflection: Tracy reflects on the hazardous conditions of mining and the odd nostalgia for coal jobs despite clear obsolescence (04:05). Holly notes this context influenced her decision to cover the innovative George Stephenson—demonstrating the impact of (lack of) educational opportunities and industrial transitions.

4. Green Space, Wellbeing, and Everyday Joy

• Delight in Nature: Holly and Tracy recount moments of delight sparked by nature—hydroponic gardens, travel to Morocco’s fragrant wineries, snow-covered hikes in their own neighborhoods.
  • “Even on a really cruddy day or if I'm stressed, I just walk in there and I'm like, ah.” – Holly Fry, on her home gardens (11:56)
• Advocacy: Tracy champions green space and affordable housing as essential for community health (13:28), with Holly playfully calling her a “hippie.”
  • “I like housing also. Housing and green space. What? You can have both.” – Tracy B. Wilson (13:35)

5. Women in the Olympics and Gender Equity

• Helen de Pourtalès & Helen Preece: Holly shares quirky Olympic history, such as “yachties” (aristocratic yachting friends) and Helen Preece playfully evading Central Park police on horseback (20:21).
• Sport, Sexism, and Advocacy: The hosts dissect Pierre de Coubertin’s condescending attitudes and the ongoing struggles for women in sport, noting that women were often labeled as “too assertive” or “abrasive” for pioneering change (24:34).
  • “There are a lot of circumstances in which women are framed as aggressive or shrill or whatever, doing something that would not raise any eyebrows whatsoever if a man were doing it.” – Tracy B. Wilson (24:42)
  • They praise Alice Milliat’s bold advocacy:
    • “She was like, cool, we'll do our own thing. I'll make my own system.” – Holly Fry (25:53)
    • “I love that she wrote to him a letter that was. Why don't you specifically say women are never allowed in any of the games? Cause that's gonna make my life easier. I can move on without you, and I don't have to deal with your garbage.” – Holly Fry (26:06)

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Notable Quotes & Moments (by Timestamp)

• On Flattery in Historical Writing:

  • Holly: “Just the most blowing sunshine of that that Regents took us, man.” (08:58)
  • Tracy: “Found it very funny... how many opportunities he took to flatter the King.” (09:09)

• On Air Pollution and Social Justice:

  • Hollly: “Air quality is life quality. I mean, there's no more direct way to say it.” (04:55)
  • Tracy: “This is why environmental justice is also racial justice and is also disability justice.” (05:30)

• On the Reality of History Podcasting:

  • Tracy: “If you're listening to this and saying, why haven't they said anything about X? Just because we have finite numbers of episodes and also need to do things that keep our own minds sane at work.” (08:05)

• On Being Labeled “Too Assertive”:

  • Tracy: “There are a lot of circumstances in which women are framed as aggressive or shrill or whatever, doing something that would not raise any eyebrows whatsoever if a man were doing it.” (24:42)
  • Holly: “Because I'm never gonna convince that person.” (25:41)

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Memorable Personal Anecdotes

• London as a Fragrant City: Tracy and Holly muse on Evelyn’s plan for London perfumed with flowers, and Holly jokes about the joys of in-home hydroponics (11:12, 11:48).
• Nature Heals: Tracy describes a restorative winter hike—“it really restored some of my emotional bandwidth.” (14:12)
• Olympic Mischief: Holly laughs about Helen Preece’s police chase in Central Park as a fearless teenage equestrian (20:30).
• Nitpicking Historic Sexism: Holly and Tracy trade exasperated banter over Pierre de Coubertin’s chivalry and its problematic outcomes (22:09–22:36).
• Travel and Statues: Holly adds Alice Milliat’s statue in Paris to her travel wish list (26:30).

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Modern Podcast News

• Stuff You Missed in History Class Now on Netflix:
  • Tracy and Holly announce that the podcast is now available on Netflix, with all other platforms remaining unchanged (27:00).
  • Tracy: “Netflix is in addition, not a replacement.” (28:23)

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Closing Thoughts

Holly encourages listeners to care for themselves and each other, to rest, and to be thoughtful about their energy in challenging times. The episode closes with reminders about classic and new episodes for the week ahead.

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Recommended Listening Order

• [02:20-05:30] – Main discussion of pollution, air quality, and policy context
• [05:30-07:19] – Social/environmental justice overlaps & personal air quality anecdotes
• [08:29-13:28] – John Evelyn’s flattery, the “Fumifugium” plan, and personal nature stories
• [18:06-26:32] – Women’s sports, Olympic history, and gender roles
• [27:00-28:27] – Podcast news and announcements
• [28:43–end] – Uplifting closing messages

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For full context, listen to the primary episode on the "Pollution Olympics" and then this companion "Behind the Scenes Minis" conversation for further analysis and outtakes.

Transcript

[Tracy B. Wilson]

This is an iHeart podcast, Guaranteed Human.

[NBC Winter Olympics Announcer]

Tonight, kick off the Winter Olympics in style with the opening ceremony from Italy, featuring a special performance by Mariah Carey. Celebrate the greatest athletes from around the globe as they come together to go for gold. The opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics. Ilya Malin, redefining the sport tonight at 8 Eastern, 7 Central on NBC. And Peacock.

[Charlie's Place Narrator]

When segregation was a law, one mysterious black club owner, Charlie Fitzgerald, had his own rules.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Segregation in the day, integration at night. It was like stepping in another world.

[Charlie's Place Narrator]

Was he a businessman, A criminal, A hero?

[Holly Fry]

Charlie was an example of power. They had to crush him.

[Charlie's Place Narrator]

Charlie's place from Atlas Obscura and visit Myrtle Beach. Listen to Charlie's place on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Valley of Shadows Narrator]

On June 11, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing.

[Holly Fry]

Hey, if they'll kill a cop and bury him, what are they gonna do to me?

[Valley of Shadows Detective]

What really happened to the missing deputy? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert.

[Valley of Shadows Narrator]

Listen to Valley of shadows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Mama quiero life on nuevo.

[Rebel.com Advertiser]

Yo uno converiza nos y vamos cuatro iPhone 17.

[Charlie's Place Narrator]

S hinosa necessit intercambio con cuatro Limias nuevas enciertos.

[Holly Fry]

Planes Unlimited visita Nos hu habla con un representant en espanol a lo. Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

This week we talked about Fumafujium and Johnny Blend.

[Holly Fry]

So fun.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. So the process was exactly what I said at the beginning of the episode. Like, I was like, oh, John Evelyn did that. That's funny. Fumafutium is a funny name. And then, you know, five hours later, Fury. The latest of many things to be furious about.

[Holly Fry]

The drive of Fury from the headlines. Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And saying, okay, we're gonna talk about air pollution more. There were a couple times last year when I had. I wanted to have some kind of story that was about, like, conservation of the environment or whatever. But also, I had sort of internally committed myself to talking as much as possible about things that the president would say was improper ideology. Yeah. So heterosexual white man John Evelyn was not at the top of my list. And he became at the top of the list this time because fumafujium was there in front of Me. And I was like, we're gonna talk about this.

[Holly Fry]

This gives me thoughts. Because my subversion, I'm playing slightly more subtly. Like, I don't say because the President said this, but because there has. Like, one of the reasons I picked George Stevenson is that we are in this age where people are talking about.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

How.

[Holly Fry]

Higher education is baloney and being educated gives you a. And I just wanted to show somebody that was like, do you know how much I missed out on. Because I didn't get educated. Not my kid.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Like, I.

[Holly Fry]

He's the person who is the key, like, case study of like. Nope.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. Well, the thing that I kept thinking about that I did not say in the episode or the behind the scenes for that one was just about how hard and dangerous working in coal mines is and how many people who worked in coal mines worked so hard so that their kids wouldn't have to.

[Holly Fry]

Yep.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And this incredibly bizarre focus on, like, we need to bring back coal when coal is an obsolete technology at this point. And I was like, I don't need to say this. It's not actually relevant to this guy who lived.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, but it is. I mean, it is. That's all part of, like, why I was like, let's talk about George Stevenson this week. Yeah. It all feeds into it. But yeah, air pollution is a problem. I don't.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Air. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Air quality is life quality. I mean, I don't. There's no more direct way to say it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. And there's so many layers of it that are so frustrating to me. Cause we talked about, like I'm thinking about in our episode about lead putting lead in gasoline. Yeah. And how that had a trickle down effect. Of the places that had the most vehicle traffic were the poorest neighborhoods where the people who were already at the most disadvantage were most likely to live and then were being exposed to a lot more car exhaust with a lot more lead in it.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Just a compounding problem. And this is why environmental justice is also racial justice and is also disability justice. And maybe all of that is. Yeah, all of that is related to why the federal government is canceling green energy contracts left and right and not putting a monetary estimate on the health impacts of specific air pollution regulations. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I mean, you see that outside of regulation, you see this play out in a very obvious way in terms of the adoption of EVs, right?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

If you go to any major city and you go to the wealthiest neighborhoods, you're gonna see a lot more EVs than you will ever see in the poorer neighborhoods. One is because they are still much more expensive than a gasoline powered injection engine. But like that is part of the problem that those people are now getting better air quality just because they can afford it, which is leaving other people behind in terms of health and quality of life. This feels like something we have people smart enough to fix. Yeah, but they gotta be willing to do it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I don't remember what it was that I read recently where somebody was referencing being in a place that now has like really high adoption overall of EVs and realizing how different the air smelled without gas powered car exhaust.

[Holly Fry]

Oh man. In Tokyo last year blew my mind.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

It made me think about growing up in North Carolina in the 70s and 80s when everyone smoked inside and how everything smelled horrible all the time.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And you could go to the mall, you could buy yourself a brand new outfit, get it home, it already smelled like smoke. Because you could smoke inside in the mall.

[Holly Fry]

I mean I couldn't tell cause my mom smoked four packs a day. So I had no discernment.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

So yeah, we just sort of lived in that.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

So anyway, I have thoughts and feelings about a lot of things, a lot of frustrations. And as I was wrapping this up, I was reminded of basically this time last year feeling like there were multiple intersecting critical things at the same time that it would be nice to reference in some way on the show and just not having enough episodes physically to do it all. So if you're listening to this and saying, why haven't they said anything about X? Just because we have finite numbers of episodes and also need to do things that keep our own minds sane at work.

[Holly Fry]

That is a big one for me lately where I'm like, I can't tackle that right now. My executive function will just collapse in a pile of crunchy flames. In comedy though.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

You mentioned several times we call out the fact that Evelyn was a royalist.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Uh huh.

[Holly Fry]

I don't know that you needed to because once we got to excerpts of his writing, it's really obvious. Oh, great majesty. You the best one there's ever been. Oh, you're the best of us.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Like our wonderful benefactor the King is going to do such great things. Yeah, yeah. Oh my goodness.

[Holly Fry]

Just the most blowing sunshine of that that Regents took us, man.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

You're the best one.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Found it very funny the how much. How many opportunities he took to flatter the King.

[Holly Fry]

Yes.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And things that were not necessarily about.

[Holly Fry]

That which is in my head, the cartoon that plays is like the person receiving that information and receiving that flattery Right. Like, I don't like that kind of stuff. It makes me want to crawl into a tin can and roll away. But there are people that love it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right, right, right.

[Holly Fry]

And just imagining if there was ever a point where Charles II is like, little thick, champ. Little thick.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. You don't need to round nose quite that much.

[Holly Fry]

Back up the truck, John. We don't have to do this.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The only thing I actually noted at the end of the outline to try to remember to say in the behind the scenes is that I watched a video of a lecture by Gillian Darley about this, and I don't remember which of his works she was talking about, but she described it as having drawings that he did that were, quote, very valiant and not utterly successful. And I had to pause it and laugh so hard at that characterization. And I was like, I should go look up those illustrations and see what they looked like. And I forgot. Oh, well.

[Holly Fry]

There could be great delight awaiting you in the visuals of John Evelyn, maybe. So great. We all need more delight. Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

He's somebody that for sure could have had a whole episode just on his biography. But I wanted to spend more time talking about this. Amusingly, in my opinion named Treatise on Air Pollution.

[Holly Fry]

It's pretty good. I feel like we should just put that word on shirts. No explanation, no nothing.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Just have a picture of, like, pretty garden flowers underneath. Not even worse.

[Holly Fry]

It's like the new juicy couture.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. His whole plan of, like, ringing the city of London with fields full of flowers and fragrant plants. I'm like, that sounds lovely.

[Holly Fry]

I mean, that does sound lovely. One of my favorite things. I know I talk about it ad nauseam and I'm sorry for anybody who's. We know. One of my favorite things about having several hydroponic gardens in the house is how good things smell.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Like, when I walk into my cantina and the flowers are blooming in there. It's like heaven. It's like heaven.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Even on a really cruddy day, or if I'm stressed, I just walk in there and I'm like, ah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

One of the places that we went to in Morocco, that place where we had the meal outside with the winery. Oh, yeah, the winery that we ate outside. They had some huge, if I'm remembering correctly, jasmine plants.

[Holly Fry]

They had a lot of good plants.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

That made the whole area so fragrant it was almost overwhelming walking through them. But, like, once you were seated, it was like a little whiff of lovely flower smell.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I was kind of worried about Patrick because he is Allergic to some flowers. And I was like, oh, are we gonna have an issue? But he was fine.

[Holly Fry]

A lot of flowers. At one point, I got up to go to the ladies room. And I don't know, you probably didn't notice cause you were busy eating and talking. But I vanished for a while. Cause I just went on like my own little flower tour. No fun. I was taking pictures of flowers so I can use them in fabric print. They had a rose there that smelled like cloves, which is something that happens with some roses. I have some, but they don't look nearly as they were. Like what's sometimes called, like a ruffled rose, where they have like the double bloom. And it smelled just incredible. And I was like, I'm intoxicated. I'm never leaving this plant.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I love it.

[Holly Fry]

Until Brian was like, hello, where are you?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, I am a big supporter in having accessible green space.

[Holly Fry]

It really makes a difference.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, I like housing also. Housing and green space. What? You can have both.

[Holly Fry]

Hippie. Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

You know, I'm weird that way.

[Holly Fry]

I too like both of these things.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. We got an amount of snow over the weekend. And I took a long, about two and a half hours hike through the snow because it was also the right temperature for me to do this. It was just cold enough that the snow was not melting, but warm enough that I did not feel like I was miserable out hiking through the snow.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And it was great. And I kept basically stopping to be like, look at that. Look at that tree covered in snow. It really restored some of my emotional bandwidth.

[Holly Fry]

I love it. I love it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

My stomping through the woods with my boots on in the snow.

[NBC Winter Olympics Announcer]

Tonight, kick off the Winter Olympics in style with the opening ceremony from Italy. Featuring a special performance by Mariah Carey. Celebrate the greatest athletes from around the globe as they come together to go for gold.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Sensational.

[NBC Winter Olympics Announcer]

The opening ceremony of the Winter Olympics. Ilia Malin redefining this sport tonight at 8 Eastern, 7 Central on NBC.

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[Hans Charles]

To the A building. I'm Hans Charles.

[Inalec Lumumba]

I'm inalec Lumumba. It's 1969. Malcolm X and Martin Luther King Jr have both been assassinated and black America was out of breaking point. Rioting and protest broke out on an.

[Hans Charles]

Unprecedented scale in Atlanta, Georgia. At Martin's alma mater, Morehouse House College, the students had their own Protest. It featured two prominent figures in black history, Martin Luther King Jr. And a young student, Samuel L. Jackson.

[Inalec Lumumba]

To be in what we really thought was a revolution, I mean people were dying.

[Hans Charles]

1968, the murder of Dr. King, which traumatized everyone.

[Holly Fry]

The FBI had a role in the.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Murder of a Black Panther leader in Chicago.

[Inalec Lumumba]

This story is about protest. It echoes in today's world far more than it should. And it will blow your mind.

[Hans Charles]

Listen to the A Building on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Valley of Shadows Narrator]

On June 11, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing.

[Rebel.com Advertiser]

It's an all out manhunt for John Ajay. Every search and rescue team in LA county has been called in to help.

[Valley of Shadows Detective]

Within days, tips started flooding into the sheriff's department.

[NBC Winter Olympics Announcer]

They ruler around the drug scene. Was that a deputy was taken care of.

[Valley of Shadows Narrator]

Is this the story of a man who just got lost in the desert? Or of a cover up inside the nation's largest sheriff's department?

[Holly Fry]

A homicide captain saying detective, do not.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Find out if this guy's guilty or innocent. Who does that?

[Valley of Shadows Detective]

Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert.

[Valley of Shadows Narrator]

Do you have any advice for us while looking into this disappearance?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I wouldn't do it alone.

[Valley of Shadows Detective]

Listen to Valley of shadows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

We talked about ladies in the Olympics or almost in the Olympics this week.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

That too. That too.

[Holly Fry]

I have a handful of things. Okay, one is just silly, which is that there was a write up I read about Helene de Portales which was written by. I believe he is Swiss, a Swiss scholar. But the only funny part was that he called like her group of aristocratic yachting friends. Yachties. I Don't know if that's a real term or not, but it made me think of Bob's Burgers, on which yachts come up a lot, surprisingly. And I just could not. I only hear it in voices from that show now. I'm like, yachties. It's very funny, Helen Preece.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I'm not. I'm like that person. I did not ever go through a horse phase as a kid. I didn't have it like many kids do.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

So I know very little about horseback riding.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

I didn't know about sidesaddle jumping, which people still do.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

Holy smokes. That looks terrifying.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I knew about sidesaddle jumping probably. I think Gone with the Wind is.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, it never registered to me in that.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

A movie that has a formative. Formative is not the right word. A movie that has a critical moment involving a child riding sidesaddle and jumping. Not even a big jump. Unless I'm confusing it with some other movie. There is some.

[Holly Fry]

Listen, that's another thing. I live in Atlanta, and I'm not a big Gone with the Wind person.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I feel it.

[Holly Fry]

I've seen it. I'm clearly. Outside of all things, when I was a child.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I was never a horse kid. So, like, even if it came up in a movie, I would not have fixated on it. Yeah, yeah. I didn't know.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I didn't know. Also, I think some of our neighbors are snow blowing, so hopefully none of that is being captured in our audio. If anyone is watching this or listening and saying, what is that strange noise that I can hear? The love in the background. The answer is we have almost 20 inches of snow on the ground here. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. There is a great story about Helen Preece that I found so charming, but it didn't. It was not germane to her Olympic bid.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

Which is that when she was in New York competing, one day, she decided to take her horse for a ride through Central Park. And she was fast. She was fast as lightning. Like, she was very comfortable riding at very fast speeds. But the police of New York were not accustomed to seeing anyone on a horse going that fast through Central Park. And they thought, like, the horse had gotten scared and she had lost control of it. And they literally were, like, giving her chase. And instead of stopping, she was like. Like, let's lead him on a little chase. Keep in mind, she was a teenage girl at the start. She was, you know, I think 16. And when she finally stopped and the police caught up to her, she was like, hey, I'm Helen Preece. I'm the person that just won all those awards.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Here in New York. And they were like, oh, okay. It just made me laugh so hard, the idea of her leading people on a chase. Don't do that. It's not cool. But it did make me chuckle. I also had to laugh at Pierre de Coubertin calling her a Neo Amazon. Because you picture someone who is like a very, you know, tall, super muscly, strong person. Helen Priest was like a petite thing. She was very. And again, a girl at that point. She was still a teenager. So it made me. I was like, how are you trying to spin this, my dude? Like, that's not. Oh, Pierre. That whole thing. Listen, he still has one of history's best mustaches, but, yeah, he does.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I do remember that I blocked the sexism out of my brain, but I do remember the mustache. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I mean, it's interesting because there are people who defend him as, like, no, that's the product of his time. And he was very chivalrous. But, like, chivalry at its heart is demeaning to women in a lot of ways. There's a difference between wanting to be polite and kind and respectful and being like, no, no, honey. Like, yeah, yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

And I will say, it came up in some of the things I read about, and I didn't really jump into it in this outline, but that there were a lot of men. It was not as though that was the only prevailing opinion among men at the time. There were men who were like, why not let these women compete? Like, they're athletes. We're all athletes. This is. You know, we have room. We can make this happen. And there were a lot of men advocating. There were also some men saying really stupid stuff. And Alice Milia had this great response to. I think it was a runner who just said some really, you know, unnecessarily stupid and gross things about women. And she was referring to him and to Bertin. She said, quote, they could do themselves a favor by showing some interest in women's sport. They shut themselves away in their everlasting male egoism. She's just like, fine, dudes. Do you understand? You're gonna leave yourself behind because the rest of us are trying to make things better and equal and improve the Games. She had this reputation that even people that were aligned with her, that were in her organization would kind of be like, you know, we might do better if Elise were not so assertive and abrasive, like, she's too brusque. She's too Blunt in everything that she says. And, like, it was very much like the. Oh, we'll catch more flies with honey than vinegar. Which, like, listen, I'm very. Know your audience. Figure out which tactic is gonna work best. But this is also the same group of women who were like, oh, yes, we'll take just the five after you promised us ten.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Sports.

[Holly Fry]

It's fine. It's fine. That were like, no, Helen, don't be so mean.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

So. Yeah, well.

[Holly Fry]

And which she's like, you said 10.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah. Also, like, there are a lot of circumstances in which women are framed as aggressive or shrill or whatever, doing something that would not raise any eyebrows whatsoever if a man were doing it. And so when I kind of scrolled to the end of the outline and I took a peek at the things you had noted for yourself to talk about it behind the scenes, and I was like, I already have feelings about this one.

[Holly Fry]

I knew you would. I know that's a very sticky point for you.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. I find it very frustrating.

[Holly Fry]

There's a part of me. I don't want to say this in a way that sounds like I'm discounting your thoughts on the matter or anyone's. I don't find it as frustrating as you, because my response is usually like, well, okay. And then I say expletive, you. And then I walk away from that person forever, and I never talk to them again. But that's just me.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Sure.

[Holly Fry]

Because I'm never gonna convince that person.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right. Right.

[Holly Fry]

That I'm something other than what they perceive. So I don't care.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I am more frustrated by the role that plays in society than on, like, me as an individual person.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, yeah. But I think this is why I'm drawn to Alice Milia, because she was like, cool, we'll do our own thing. I'll make my own system.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I'll just do it.

[Holly Fry]

Like, that's why I'm like, yes, this is exactly the route I would like to think I would take.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Just.

[Holly Fry]

And I love that she wrote to him a letter that was. Why don't you specifically say women are never allowed in any of the games? Cause that's gonna make my life easier. I can move on without you, and I don't have to deal with your garbage.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Can.

[Holly Fry]

Just put it behind us. I love her so much, Elise. She's a good one. And now I have a checklist for next time I'm in Paris to go see her statue.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, sounds fun.

[Holly Fry]

I feel like lately my list of travel things is getting very long. Here's hoping we get allowed. Americans are still allowed to travel in the not too distant future. Anyway, those are my thoughts. Elise Mil. Yeah, Forever. Yeah.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Before we sign off for today's behind the Scenes, should we tell people that our podcast is on Netflix now?

[Holly Fry]

Sure.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I mean, a person, I mean, if.

[Holly Fry]

They'Re watching it, they've figured it out, right?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

But maybe this is not news to someone who is watching this right now. But yes, our podcast, Netflix has podcasts now and our podcast is one of them.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, yeah, you can go check it out at Netflix. Yeah, if you search for our show, it's gonna come up.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

It's right there. You can click the. What's it called? The remind me button is the one that will tell you when new episodes show up.

[Holly Fry]

Yes.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Also, this is a great way to resolve a thing that a lot of people have told us about, which is that they have seen photos of us and they hear us talking and they have mixed up up our faces with our voices and then they meet us out in the world somewhere or come to a live show. Not that we've done any of those in very long, but then it's a disconcerting experience. So you can watch on Netflix and just get all of that out of the way before having an in person experience ever.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, yeah, yeah. So there we are. So you can check us out there more, more ways to enjoy the show. If you are already watching on Netflix, we thank you. If you haven't yet and you want to check it out there, it will be going forward.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And if you are listening on some other medium, that's not going away.

[Holly Fry]

Correct.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Netflix is in addition, not a replacement.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. If you're like, oh, no, I listen while I walk, you still can. No problem. Yeah, no problem. Whatever platform you're using is going to work just fine. But then if you want to listen one day while you sit on the couch at home, you can do that too. Options?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

If this is your weekend coming up and you have time off, I hope that you use that time to make the world a better place. But also, do you use that time to rest and recuperate? We need you as strong and well rested as you can be in the days that we are living in. If you do not have time off this weekend and you have responsibilities or you are scheduled for work, I hope that everyone is cool to you, that you still get time to yourself to center and recuperate from all of the things that are going on in the world. I think we all need to be very mindful of our nervous systems right now and what we can and cannot do in a given day and try to do our very best. Like I said, please take care of one another. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode and then we will have something brand new on Monday.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.