Behind the Scenes Minis: Strikes and Dear Kurt

Summary

Stuff You Missed in History Class: Behind the Scenes Minis – "Strikes and Dear Kurt"

Hosted by Holly Fry and Tracy B. Wilson | Released: March 28, 2025

---

Introduction

In the "Behind the Scenes Minis" episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, hosts Holly Fry and Tracy B. Wilson delve deep into two intriguing topics: the 1946 Oakland General Strike and an intimate exploration of Kurt Vonnegut's legacy. This episode offers listeners a comprehensive look behind the scenes of their research and discussions, shedding light on the complexities and personal reflections associated with these historical subjects.

---

Part 1: The 1946 Oakland General Strike

Overview: Tracy and Holly examine the 1946 Oakland General Strike, emphasizing the pivotal role of retail workers and the significant yet often overlooked contributions of women in the labor movement.

Key Discussions:

• Women's Day Off in Iceland (00:02:13 - 00:03:17):

  • Tracy expresses her interest in covering the 1975 Women's Day Off in Iceland, highlighting the meticulous organization behind the strike:

    "There’s a whole organizing and planning effort...because it was not a situation where somebody said ladies were not working this day." (00:02:21)

• Focus on Retail Workers (00:03:17 - 00:05:02):

  • The conversation shifts to the 1946 strike's focus on retail and food service workers, predominantly led by women:

    "I do wish we had been able to find more things from the retail workers whose strike really started this whole thing." (00:03:39)

• Challenges in Research (00:03:39 - 00:05:24):

  • Tracy discusses the difficulty in sourcing quotes from retail workers, noting the gender dynamics of the time:

    "A lot of the union statements were from men, either attorneys or management, not the women on the front lines." (00:05:02)

• Impact on Modern Labor Movements (00:05:24 - 00:08:35):

  • Tracy connects historical labor movements to contemporary efforts, reflecting on the enduring struggles of retail and food service workers:

    "This was a union effort largely led by women, which is really interesting because a lot of our historical strikes featured predominantly male unions." (00:05:24)

• Less Violence Compared to Earlier Strikes (00:07:43 - 00:08:35):

  • Discussion about the relatively peaceful nature of the 1940s strikes compared to earlier ones, with Tracy debating societal factors influencing this trend:

    "I read a paper that speculated on why this wave didn’t have as much violence, but I felt it was too speculative to include." (00:07:43)

Notable Insights: Tracy and Holly underscore the critical yet underrepresented role of women in labor movements, particularly in sectors like retail that continue to face organizing challenges today. Their research journey highlights gaps in historical documentation, especially concerning female workers' voices.

---

Part 2: "Dear Kurt" – Exploring Kurt Vonnegut's Legacy

Overview: The second segment, "Dear Kurt," offers a heartfelt exploration of Kurt Vonnegut's life, works, and enduring influence, enriched by personal anecdotes and reflections from the hosts.

Key Discussions:

• Kurt Vonnegut at Indiana Comic Con (00:12:18 - 00:13:38):

  • Holly recounts their live show experience, where they revisited Vonnegut's work and watched Robert Whitey's documentary:

    "I finally got to see Robert Whitey's documentary...which was very moving." (00:12:18)

• Appeal to Teenagers (00:13:08 - 00:15:10):

  • The hosts discuss why Vonnegut resonates with younger audiences, attributing it to his straightforwardness and authentic storytelling:

    "He doesn't BS the kids. He tells the truth, even through fantastical stories. It's very refreshing." (00:13:24)

• Personal Connection to Vonnegut's Works (00:15:10 - 00:17:52):

  • Both hosts share personal stories about reading Vonnegut's books during their youth, highlighting the deep impact his literature had on them:

    "I carried around a copy of Cat’s Cradle for two years straight in high school." (00:15:10)

• Vonnegut's Coping Mechanism through Writing (00:16:17 - 00:24:15):

  • The conversation delves into how Vonnegut used his writing to process trauma from his war experiences, portraying his characters as extensions of his psyche:

    "Billy Pilgrim is his self-insert in Slaughterhouse-Five, working through war trauma." (00:16:29) "He dealt with trauma by writing about it as another person's event." (00:24:02)

• Ida Young's Influence (00:17:52 - 00:19:09):

  • Tracy highlights Ida Young, Vonnegut's housekeeper, who significantly influenced his moral compass:

    "Ida Young raised him and gave him his sense of morality and ideology about always caring for others." (00:18:35)

• Vonnegut's Personal Life and Legacy (00:19:32 - 00:26:38):

  • Holly reflects on Vonnegut's interviews and personal relationships, pondering the complexities behind his public persona:

    "He would say all the horrible things that happened to him were fine, but his eyes told a different story." (00:23:04) "His daughters didn't know about his war experiences until he published Slaughterhouse-Five." (00:25:43)

Notable Insights: Holly and Tracy provide an intimate look at Vonnegut, not just as a literary figure but as a person grappling with profound trauma. Their admiration for his ability to blend honesty with fiction underscores his lasting appeal and the therapeutic power of storytelling.

---

Conclusion

In this episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, Holly Fry and Tracy B. Wilson offer listeners an enriching behind-the-scenes perspective on their exploration of significant historical events and figures. From the organized, often hidden efforts of women in labor movements to the layered legacy of Kurt Vonnegut, the hosts invite us to appreciate the depth and complexity of history's untold stories.

Final Thoughts:

"We all need to abide by Vonnegut's ideology of treating people kindly. Everybody be cool to one another. It's the only way we're gonna get through." (00:24:28)

This episode not only educates but also inspires a deeper understanding of the human elements that shape our history and culture.

---

Notable Quotes:

• "There’s a whole organizing and planning effort...because it was not a situation where somebody said ladies were not working this day." – Tracy B. Wilson (00:02:21)

• "This was a union effort largely led by women, which is really interesting because a lot of our historical strikes featured predominantly male unions." – Tracy B. Wilson (00:05:24)

• "Billy Pilgrim is his self-insert in Slaughterhouse-Five, working through war trauma." – Holly Fry (00:16:29)

• "He doesn’t BS the kids. He tells the truth, even through fantastical stories. It’s very refreshing." – Holly Fry (00:13:24)

---

For more insightful episodes and historical deep dives, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or your preferred podcast platform.

Transcript

[Tracy B. Wilson]

You know, buying a home used to be a huge headache. You had to go to different places for listings, pre approval financing. But Rocket is putting everything you need in one place. Rocket.com, a single seamless homeownership platform to help you find, buy, sell, finance, even refinance your home. Everything you need all under one roof. Every home at one address. Rocket.com the new home for all things homeownership Rock Rocket Own the dream Breaking.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

News T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from big cities to your hometown on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlocked device, credit service report in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Larison Campbell]

In Mississippi Yazoo Clay keeps secrets.

[Holly Fry]

7,000 bodies out there or more.

[Larison Campbell]

A forgotten asylum cemetery.

[Holly Fry]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell and this is under Yazu Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jen Swan]

Imagine you're scrolling through TikTok. You come across a video of a teenage girl and then a photo of the person suspected of killing her.

[Holly Fry]

It was shocking. It was very shocking. Like, that could have been my daughter. Like you never know.

[Jen Swan]

I'm Jen Swan. I'm the host of a new podcast called My Friend Daisy. It's the story of how and why a group of teenagers turned to social media to help track down their friend's killer. Listen to my daisy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Happy Friday. I'm Tracy B. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

This week we talked about the 1946 Oakland General Strike.

[Holly Fry]

We sure did.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I do wanna say again, I would love at some point to do an epis on the women's day off in Iceland in 1975. The very basics are around easily accessible in English. I feel like that episode would be best if we had a lot more detail about, like how it was organized and how it was planned, because it was not a situation where somebody said ladies were not Working this day.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And then. And then, like, someone flipped a switch. The women didn't work that day. Like, there's a whole organizing and planning effort. And the details of that, I think, do exist in Icelandic. Not so much in English, though, at least at this moment when we're recording. So while this episode was something that I chose in part because we cannot do this one, I was also really interested in this on its own merits, to be very clear.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I was really interested in how much of the focus was on workers in retail trying to organize. Because we still, you know, have a lot of workers in retail and a lot of workers in food service trying to organize today in the world that we're living in. And then also it being the last really major general strike before Taft Hartley.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I wanted to tell that story also. Something I found frustrating in the research process of this was I found a lot of quotes from people who were active or were leaders in the other unions that went on strike to support the retail workers during the general strike. I really did not find people talking to those retail workers and their union leaders. I think I found at most one or two quotes that came up in the context of a documentary. And then when I went back to try to find them to be like, can I find out more about this person? I had lost track of where specifically I had found those couple of quotes. And everything else was primarily quotes from people in other unions who. Like, that's part of the story, too. But I do wish we had. I had. I had been able to find more things from the retail workers whose strike really started this whole thing.

[Holly Fry]

I have a theory they had a lot more women in that one. Right. Didn't the retail workers have more women? So it was probably like, we want to talk to men folk, not the ladies.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Well, so, yeah, a lot of the. When I did find, like, statements from the union, a lot of times they were statements from the attorney who was a man, or they were statements from management from the store who were men, or they were statements that were sort of a statement from the union that did not name a specific person as a spokesperson.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

So, yeah, like, gender was specifically a part of it. And the fact that this was a union effort that was largely led by women was also something that made this a, you know, really interesting story to me, because a lot of the stories that we have told about labor rights and unionizing and strikes, a lot of those have been unions that were either primarily or exclusively men at the time. So we've done a lot of Strikes about railroad workers and auto workers. And we've talked about how all of those strikes were only possible because of the efforts of women, sometimes intentionally organized women's auxiliaries, to do things like support the striking workers, keep everybody fed, keep everybody sheltered and clothed, and all of that while the strike was going on. But we have not had as many episodes that are, like, about the women themselves at their workplace organizing.

[Holly Fry]

Right.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The one thing I can think of off the top of my head is the London Match Girls strike, which we have covered on the show before.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. This is another one of those where I'm. It makes me go, huh? Yeah, we haven't made any progress.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

I'm not laughing that we haven't made any progress. I'm laughing at the absurdity of the human condition. You know, we'll keep trying. Yeah, we'll keep trying.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I. Having been through the whole process of. Of organizing a workplace and bargaining our first union contract, sometimes when I read about, you know, historical union efforts, sometimes I'm like, yep, that feels so familiar. I will say that in the. This wave of strikes that happened in the 1940s overall did not have as much violence as some of the earlier strike waves that we have talked about. Because we've talked a lot about ones in which the National Guard or some other force was, like, called out to deal with this strike and that it led to injuries and even deaths.

[Holly Fry]

Right. This one did not seem to have an escalation of violence, even though there were some unfortunate parts of it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. I read or I got access to a paper that talked a little bit about why that is. And after reading it, I was like, I don't feel like. I feel like this was kind of speculative in some of its reasoning about why this particular wave of strikes did not have the level of violence that some earlier ones did. Um, so I did not try to get into that in the episode itself. Cause I did not feel like I had a good.

[Holly Fry]

That becomes like a whole other sociology examination of, like, group behavior and leveraging of power. That's not necessarily about the labor movement anymore.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right, right. There's some greater societal patterns involved. So, yeah, I am glad that. That I got this one up to the top of my list.

[Holly Fry]

Me too.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Todo dos dias de dos sintos veinti nueve dolares ha de mas tam impo de se encontrarto dos accessorios que necesitas para tu carnita sada se a un exito ahora si listo paracer ela amphitrio un de la temporada esta primavera encuentra una gran barida de sadores pormenos de tresientos dolares.

[Holly Fry]

And the Home Depot.

[Larison Campbell]

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo Clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reputation.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

It's terrible, terrible dirt.

[Larison Campbell]

Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Holly Fry]

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

[Larison Campbell]

Former patients of the old state asylum. And nobody knew they were there.

[Holly Fry]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keep secrets.

[Holly Fry]

Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information.

[Larison Campbell]

When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo Clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Larison Campbell]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to under yazukle on the iHeartRadio app, Apple podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Is this a good time? It's me, Dylan Mulvaney and my dear friend Joe Locke from Heartstopper. And Agatha all along is my very first guest on my brand new podcast, the Dylan Hour. It's musical mayhem and it is going to be so much fun. I like a man. You like a man. What do I like? Joe, you like a man too. We often. There's quite similar. There's some cross pollination happening in here. Not like. No. Have we? No, no, not yet. Never say never. I cannot wait for all you girls gays and they's to join me on this extremely special pink confection of a podcast. There is so much darkness in this world and what I think we could all use more of is a little joy. Listen to the Dylan hour on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Love ya.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, you're listening to On Purpose with Jay Shetty. And today my guests are none other than Selena Gomez and Benny Blanco. I can't wait for you to hear this episode about their love story, about their relationship like you've never heard it before. I want to go back to the first time you ever met.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Thank you so much for this.

[Larison Campbell]

One of the great.

[Holly Fry]

Thank you. I'm Selena. We're watching Desi the Kids. When you're a pop star like she is and you're a huge entity and people set up all these walls before and then the first, second you, like, disarmed everybody.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

By the way, congratulations on your engagement.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

What I felt for Benny, it was. Everything about him was honest. He'll tell me anything that he's feeling, and it made me feel like I could do the same.

[Holly Fry]

If we would have met each other when we were younger, it would have never worked.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

We had our live show from Indiana Comic Con about Kurt Vonnegut this week.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yes. Yes.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, Kurt Vonnegut. Yeah, you blessing upon us all. Yeah. It was really, really nice to revisit his work in preparation for this. I finally got to see Robert Whitey's documentary about him that he had been working on for decades on and off, as they became close friends, which was very moving. Yeah, it was lovely. I'm now re listening to all of his stuff in order on audiobook. So it's just a. I'm in my Kurt era, apparently. Again, one of the things we mentioned going into that show was how a lot of people find Kurt Vonnegut as teenagers.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

And how they really connect to him. And I mentioned it in the show when we record this. I haven't heard the final edit, so I don't know if it's still in there or not, but I will invoke a completely other author in why I think that's the case.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

There was a great interview with Shel Silverstein that I think ran on NPR a while back where he said someone asked him, why do kids love your books so much? And he said, because I don't BS them.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Sure.

[Holly Fry]

Like, I'm straightforward with kids. I don't lie to them ever. Right. I think he said bs, but in the actual, you know, set out version, which would include swearing. And I think Kervonagan is the same, like, for teenagers that come to him. It feels like an adult in the literary world who is very direct and does not mess around and tells the truth, even through very fantastical stories.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Which is very. It's very nice to have to not unpick, like, oh, the allegory of blah, blah, blah. Which is not to say any of that is bad in literature, but when you're a teenager, to be like, oh, this is a very decorated literary person. And he's just directly telling me what. What is going on and sharing some very real truths. It's very refreshing.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, I loved it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I did not happen to discover Kurt Vonnegut as a teen, and I could not 100% confidently tell you whether it was college or immediately post college. Like in very early 20s, very first living on my own land. But I don't think I was a teen. I don't remember reading any Vonnegut in high school. But I do remember by the early 20s years, I vividly remember reading Slaughterhouse Five for the first time and just being enraptured by what I was reading.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, yeah. I carried around a copy of Cat's Cradle, I think for two years straight in high school. Like it was always in my purse to the point that it was like a joke. Yeah. Cause it was one of those small size mass market paperbacks like the famous cover that everybody sees that's just the orange with the art on it. And then I also had the similar series Breakfast of Champions also jangled around in my purse or backpack most of the time. And then Slaughterhouse 5 for quite a while. One of the things I love about his work is how he. How interconnected a lot of it is. It's none of the words that we would associate with someone who is creating a whole fictional world. Like a George R.R. martin or even a George Lucas or even a. I'm forgetting the name of the woman who wrote the Twilight books. Cause those were not my jam. But anyway, that idea of world building and we're putting together this entire world and everything his did that. But nobody was ever really talking about it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

And part of it was I think also that he self inserted quite literally. Right. In some ways. Billy Pilgrim is his self insert in Slaughterhouse 5.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Oh sure, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

As he works through the trauma of having gone through the war. But then there are a lot of times where it's like, hi, it's Kurt. I bet you're wondering why I wrote this this way. Let me tell you.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And he'll just explain it.

[Holly Fry]

And I think that is wildly charming. Yeah. I had a discussion with someone during the convention, like over dinner, one of my friends, where we were debating over whether some of the things that Kurt Vonnegut said in his lifetime come off as sexist or not.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Okay.

[Holly Fry]

And I see how many could be interpreted that way. He would talk a lot about whether women were pretty or not, blah, blah, blah. And like, you know how he was secretly in love with almost everybody woman he worked with. But it never felt disrespectful in the way that I associate sexism with. And it was never super crass. You know what I mean? It was never like. So I feel like. No, but I see where people could get that way. And I'm not gonna, you know, ever tell somebody they're wrong for their interpretation. We did not talk about in the episode that we recorded at Indiana Comic Con because you have limited time. You know, like when we record our show, if we run long, fine. You cannot run long when you have more panelists coming into the room.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

You gotta clear the room.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah, get the heck out of there. So we didn't get time to talk about Ida Young, which is a pity. And I feel like she just would have merited more time than a quick this is a person. But she was a person that Kurt Vonnegut invoked many times in interviews as being the person who raised him and gave him his sense of morality and his ideology about always caring about others. And that was a black woman who was the housekeeper in his family home and the cook, and her name was Ida Young. And she even in the Vonnegut Museum and Library, which is in Indianapolis and is a really lovely space, there's a whole area that's just about Ida's influence on him and how it important that was. And I really love that she gets included in that story. And like I said, there's not enough time and a short thing to go down the rabbit hole of who she was and whatnot. So I want to do more research on her and see what I can find because, you know, surely she had a life outside of the Vonnegut home.

[Larison Campbell]

There's a type of soil in Mississippi called Yazoo clay. It's thick, burnt orange, and it's got a reput Is terrible, terrible dirt. Yazoo clay eats everything, so things that get buried there tend to stay buried until they're not. In 2012, construction crews at Mississippi's biggest hospital made a shocking discovery.

[Holly Fry]

7,000 bodies out there or more, all.

[Larison Campbell]

Former patients of the old state asylum, and nobody knew they were there.

[Holly Fry]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

But in this corner of the south, it's not just the soil that keeps secrets.

[Holly Fry]

Nobody talks about it. Nobody has any information.

[Larison Campbell]

When you peel back the layers of Mississippi's Yazoo Clay, nothing's ever as simple as you think.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The story is much more complicated and nuanced than that.

[Larison Campbell]

I'm Larison Campbell. Listen to Under Yazu Clay on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Is this a good time? It's me, Dylan Mulvaney, and my dear friend Joe Locke from Heartstopper. And Agatha all along is my very first guest on my brand new podcast, the Dylan Hour. It's musical mayhem and it is going to be so much fun. I like a man. You like a man. What do I like? Joe? You like a man too. We often. There's quite similar. There's some cross pollination happening in here. Not like.

[Holly Fry]

Like.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

No. Have we.

[Holly Fry]

No.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

No, not yet. Never say never. I cannot wait for all you girls gays and they's to join me on this extremely special pink confection of a podcast. There is so much darkness in this world and what I think we could all use more of is a little joy. Listen to the Dylan hour on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you listen to your podcasts. Love ya.

[Jay Shetty]

Hey, you're listening to On Purpose with Jay Shetty. And today my guests are none other than Selena Gomez and Benny Blanco. I can't wait for you to hear this episode about their love story, about their relationship like you've never heard it before. I want to go back to the first time you ever met.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Thank you so much for this.

[Larison Campbell]

One of the great.

[Holly Fry]

Thank you. I'm Selena. We're watching Disney's Kids. When you're a pop star like she is and you're a huge entity and people set up all these walls before and then the first second you like disarmed everybody.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

By the way, congratulations on your engagement.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

What I felt for Benny, it was. Everything about him was honest. He'll tell me anything that he's feeling and it made me feel like I could do the same.

[Holly Fry]

If we would have met each other when we were younger, it would have never worked.

[Jay Shetty]

Listen to On Purpose with Jay Shetty on the iHeartRadio Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jorge Cham]

Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you?

[Larison Campbell]

Why is my cat not here and.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I go in and she's eating my lunch?

[Jorge Cham]

Or if hypnotism is real, you will.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Use the suggestion in order to enhance your cognitive control.

[Jorge Cham]

But what's inside a black hole?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.

[Jorge Cham]

Well, we have answers for you in the new I Heart original podcast Science Stuff. Join me, Jorge Cham as we tackle questions you've always wanted to know the answer to about animals, space, our brains and our bodies. Questions like, can you survive being cryogenically frozen?

[Holly Fry]

This is experimental. This may never work for you.

[Jorge Cham]

What's a quantum computer?

[Holly Fry]

It's not just a faster computer. It performs in a fundamentally different way.

[Jorge Cham]

Do you really have to wait 30 minutes after eating before you can go swimming?

[Holly Fry]

It's not really A safety issue. It's more of a comfort issue.

[Jorge Cham]

We'll talk to experts, break it down, and give you easy to understand explanations to fascinating scientific questions. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to science stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Holly Fry]

I always marvel at how in interviews he would say all of the horrible things that happened to him were fine. They didn't really bother him.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And I'm like, have you read your own books, maybe?

[Holly Fry]

Yes, they did. They're on the page.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

There's a really good interview in that Whitey documentary, which is pretty easy to get ahold of. I think I found it on Amazon Prime. But there are other places you can find it as well where he's talking about some of those experiences and he's saying the words of like, it's fine. It was all fine. It didn't really bother me at the time. But his eyes, like, tell a whole other story.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Right.

[Holly Fry]

He kind of gets the thousand yard stare and he looks very morose for a moment before he. She picks up and makes a joke. And I marvel that he never cared to let on that his whole life was kind of like his whole career, really was him dealing with trauma.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

With trauma, yeah.

[Holly Fry]

In the only way he knew, which was to write about it as like another person's event. Just its own sociological fascination.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

Vonnegut, I love you.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I. Unlike what happens sometimes when one of us has done an interview and the other one was not there for the interview, this is a case where I actually have listened to the episode before coming in here to record the behind the scenes. I really enjoyed listening to this. I enjoyed how clearly you and Brian were both talking about someone whose work you love so dearly. And we're also interested in telling the truth of his story as a person. I liked it a lot.

[Holly Fry]

Yeah. I mean, he's a fun one to talk about because he was such a character. And I certainly would not say he, you know, he was a human. Like I said, there were discussions about whether or not some of the things he said were sexist at the con. But he was so focused on wanting to find ways to teach people the ideas of, like, loving your fellow man should be your highest calling ever. That he's a nice one to talk about in that regard. There's no surprise. Oh, and he actually, you know, was a racist and kicked people. Like, there's none of those. So he's a nice, you know, it's always nice when someone that you admire turns out to not be a monstrous jerk. I have some issues with what happened with him and Jane, sure. But that's not my marriage to have issues. So I don't know. I wasn't there.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah.

[Holly Fry]

It's fascinating to watch interviews with his kids and have them talk about him and how, you know, they. We mentioned it in the show that, like, his daughters were like. I had no idea what he went through in the war until he published Slaughterhouse Five. We just didn't know. He just came home and there's a mention of him. I think I mentioned it in the episode as an aside, in one of the biographies that I read where it was like, he tried to tell someone immediately after he got back from the war about a man that had been shot for allegedly. I think he took something that he shouldn't have or whatever, and he just couldn't. And he never talked about it with anybody ever again other than through his typewriter, which is pretty fascinating. I spent an unconscionable amount of money in the Vonnegut library and museum gift shop. Yeah, you said.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I don't know if that made it into the final cut of the episode or not. Cause that I have not heard. I've only heard the raw audio of the panel. But I was very. I was like, what all did Holly buy?

[Holly Fry]

I bought many T shirts. I bought a pint glass that has the quote about, I have a problem with alcohol and the telephone at night. I bought a really beautiful book that his daughter Edith has put together. That's the love letters between him and Jane from the 1940s, when they were. When he was at war and they were very young, which is really beautiful. I haven't gotten very far into it yet. I got a pen. I got a pack of cards. I got. I feel like I bought other things that I'm not remembering. I was just very grabby, handsy. Cause we also. I was trying to be conscious of time. Cause we did have to get over there in the morning, look around, get back to the convention center. And, you know, we had multiple panels that day that we had to do. So I was trying to drag my feets, but what a delight. I want to go back and spend more time there because it's lovely. And they have a cute cafe in there. They have, like, a little lounge where they do book events sometimes. It's a very cool space. So highly recommend to anybody that's in the area and is interested in Vonnegut. Or even if you're not, you're Just curious. They do a lot of fun interactive things there, like prompts that are based on the writing of Vonnegut to, like, get kids involved in expressing themselves. And it's just a cool space. I love it. So kudos to the people that run it. I think that's it. I've probably waxed rhapsodic enough. Okay. Dear Kurt Vonnegut, I love you. I hope you know. I hope if there's an afterlife. I hope if you're on Tralfamador right now, you feel that people love you. Since you experience time apparently in different ways than the rest of us. I like to think of him out there somewhere, just not here. If you are headed into your weekend, I hope that you can take time to read something that you love or visit a museum that might delight you and, and spark ideas in your mind and just make you feel a little more at peace with the world. If you do not have time off, I really hope everyone abides by Vonnegut's ideology of treating people kindly. We all need it. Everybody be cool to one another. It's the only way we're gonna get through. We will be right back here tomorrow with a classic episode and on Monday with something brand new.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Holly Fry]

AI is redefining what's possible for your business. With more unique challenges to solve and.

[Larison Campbell]

Higher stakes than ever, Microsoft helps you stay ahead.

[Holly Fry]

Our trustworthy AI tools and guidance can.

[Larison Campbell]

Empower leaders like you to drive greater impact. And with Azure's simplified platform management, we're helping businesses go further, faster, unlocking up to 150% improved output. Whatever challenge comes next, let Microsoft help you keep pushing forward. For more details, visit Microsoft.com challengers In Mississippi, Yazoo Clay keeps secrets.

[Holly Fry]

7,000 bodies out there or more.

[Larison Campbell]

A forgotten asylum cemetery.

[Holly Fry]

It was my family's mystery.

[Larison Campbell]

Shame, guilt, propriety. Something keeps it all buried deep until it's not. I'm Larison Campbell and this is under Yazoo Clay. Listen on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast.

[Jen Swan]

Imagine you're scrolling through TikTok. You come across a video of a teenage girl and then a photo of the person suspected of killing her.

[Holly Fry]

It was shocking. It was very shocking. Like, that could have been my daughter. Like, you never know.

[Jen Swan]

I'm Jen Swan. I'm the host of a new podcast called My Friend Daisy. It's the story of how and why a group of teenagers turned to social media to help track down their friend's killer. Listen to my friend daisy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Jorge Cham]

Have you ever wondered if your pet is lying to you?

[Larison Campbell]

Why is my cat not here and.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

I go in and she's eating my lunch?

[Jorge Cham]

Or if hypnotism is real, you will.

[Dylan Mulvaney]

Use the suggestion order to enhance your cognitive controls.

[Jorge Cham]

But what's inside a black hole?

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Black holes could be a consequence of the way that we understand the universe.

[Jorge Cham]

Well, we have answers for you in the new iHeart original podcast Science Stuff. Join me, Jorge Ham as we answer questions about animals, space, our brains and our bodies. So give yourself permission to be a science geek and listen to science stuff on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.