Stuff You Missed in History Class: Behind the Scenes Minis - The Tricky Topic

Hosts: Holly Fry & Tracey V. Wilson
Release Date: April 11, 2025
Production: iHeartRadio

Introduction to the Episode

In this special episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, hosts Holly Fry and Tracey V. Wilson delve deep into the complex and often underexplored topics surrounding the Vietnam War and the subsequent anti-war movements. The episode is a behind-the-scenes look at the challenges and revelations encountered while researching and presenting this intricate period in history.

The Complexity of Covering the Vietnam War

Tracey V. Wilson opens the discussion by highlighting the scattered nature of information available on the Vietnam War and draft board raids. She reflects on her initial concerns about whether there would be enough material to create a comprehensive episode:

“[02:25] Tracey V. Wilson: ...is there going to be enough information about this? Because it seemed kind of scattered.”

As she delved into the story of the Camden 28—a group of 28 individuals who broke into draft records—the depth and complexity of their actions became evident. Tracey realized that isolating the Camden 28 would not adequately represent the broader anti-war movement, necessitating a more detailed exploration of the war's impact on American society.

Personal Connections to the Vietnam War

Both hosts share their personal connections to the Vietnam War, adding emotional depth to the episode.

• Tracey V. Wilson reveals her family's ties, mentioning her father's deployment to Vietnam in 1971 and a family member lost in the war:

  “[03:49] Tracey V. Wilson: My dad served in Vietnam. He was deployed to Vietnam in 1971. So during that period...”

  She recounts a poignant story about her father struggling with a drug test amidst the anxiety of returning home:

  “[05:08] Tracey V. Wilson: ...he had to pass a drug test to be able to go back home. And if you didn't pass your drug test, you could only get as far as Okinawa...”

• Holly Fry shares her own family's reluctance to discuss the war, stemming from her father's military career and her mother's desire to avoid complicated conversations:

  “[04:31] Holly Fry: ...my dad is career military and served in Vietnam. We have never talked about it. Yeah, that was made very clear to me as a kid that that was an off-limits subject.”

These personal anecdotes underscore the lingering trauma and silence surrounding the war within many American families.

The Camden 28 and the Broader Anti-War Movement

The hosts explore the significance of the Camden 28, a group involved in anti-draft activities. Tracey emphasizes the necessity of contextualizing their actions within the larger movement:

“[04:25] Tracey V. Wilson: ...this is part of a much bigger movement. And then talking about the much bigger movement needed a lot more explanation of why we were even having this happen.”

They discuss the motivations behind such protests, highlighting the diverse demographics involved—not just hippies and college students but also religious figures like Father Michael Doyle.

Father Michael Doyle and the Burning of the Pentagon Papers

A significant portion of the episode is dedicated to Father Michael Doyle, a prominent figure in the Catholic left movement. Tracey provides context on traditional Catholic practices related to Ash Wednesday and Palm Sunday:

“[14:23] Tracey V. Wilson: ...during all of this, I think it might have been after the trial, made the ashes for Ash Wednesday by burning a copy of the Pentagon Papers.”

Father Doyle's act of burning the Pentagon Papers as Ash Wednesday ashes symbolized a powerful peace demonstration:

“[15:18] Holly Fry: Oh, yes, I've had, I've had the ash face many times.”

Despite potential reprimands from higher church authorities, Father Doyle was later honored as a monsignor, reflecting his enduring commitment to social justice:

“[17:05] Holly Fry: ...ultimately he was recognized for his service. Yeah, he died only a couple years ago.”

The Legacy of the Anti-Vietnam Movement

Tracey discusses the long-term impacts of the anti-Vietnam War movement, including its influence on subsequent social issues and movements:

“[18:49] Tracey V. Wilson: ...the massive, you know, sex abuse within the Catholic Church that came to light after all of this. And so, like, all of those things played a part...”

She also touches upon the Berrigan brothers, notable for their dramatic activism in various causes, further illustrating the diverse tactics and enduring legacy of the anti-war movement.

Reflection on Historical Narratives and Audience Engagement

The hosts reflect on how historical narratives evolve over time and the importance of presenting nuanced stories to a modern audience, many of whom did not live through the Vietnam era:

“[19:43] Tracey V. Wilson: ...the Camden 28 kind of talked a little bit about the Catholic left movement...”

Holly points out the enduring relevance of these histories, especially as their audience grows older and gains different perspectives:

“[21:44] Holly Fry: ...we have heard it from people when we've done live shows and whatnot, is how many of them... continued to listen after they had finished their education.”

Conclusion and Final Thoughts

As the episode wraps up, Tracey and Holly emphasize the importance of remembering and understanding these complex historical events to appreciate their lasting effects on contemporary society. They acknowledge the challenges in discussing such topics but affirm the value in uncovering and sharing these critical narratives.

“[20:35] Tracey V. Wilson: Yeah, I was born in 1975, so just afterward. But I still feel like the Vietnam War really dominated so much socially and politically.”

“[20:58] Holly Fry: I don't know what to tell you.”

“[21:30] Holly Fry: Yeah, they're aging up, but that still means that they were much younger when we were, you know, initially talking to them and...”

The episode serves as a poignant reminder of the intricate web of personal, social, and political threads that define historical events like the Vietnam War, urging listeners to delve deeper into the stories that shape our understanding of the past and present.

Notable Quotes:

• Tracey V. Wilson [02:25]: “...is there going to be enough information about this? Because it seemed kind of scattered.”

• Tracey V. Wilson [05:08]: “...he had to pass a drug test to be able to go back home. And if you didn't pass your drug test, you could only get as far as Okinawa...”

• Tracey V. Wilson [14:23]: “...made the ashes for Ash Wednesday by burning a copy of the Pentagon Papers.”

• Holly Fry [17:05]: “...ultimately he was recognized for his service. Yeah, he died only a couple years ago.”

• Tracey V. Wilson [20:35]: “Yeah, I was born in 1975, so just afterward. But I still feel like the Vietnam War really dominated so much socially and politically.”

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