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- [00:00]
Holly Fry
This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.
- [00:05]
Tracy V. Wilson
Everyone deserves to be connected. That's why T Mobile and US Cellular are joining forces. Switch to T Mobile and save up to 20% versus Verizon by getting built in benefits they leave out. Check the math@t mobile.com switch and now T mobile is in US cellular stores. Savings versus Comparable Verizon plans plus the cost of optional benefits.
- [00:28]
Holly Fry
Plan features in Texas and fees vary. Savings with three plus lines include third.
- [00:31]
Tracy V. Wilson
Line free via monthly credits.
- [00:32]
Holly Fry
Credit stop if you cancel any lines.
- [00:34]
Tracy V. Wilson
Qualifying credit required. Hi Kyle, could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link.
- [00:48]
Holly Fry
There was no business plan.
- [00:50]
Tracy V. Wilson
I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet.
- [00:52]
Holly Fry
I'm Evan Ratliff here with a story of entrepreneurship in the AI age.
- [00:56]
Tracy V. Wilson
Listen as I attempt to build a real startup run by fake people. Check out the second season of my podcast Shell Game on the iHeartRadio app.
- [01:03]
Holly Fry
Or wherever you podcasts.
- [01:06]
Tracy V. Wilson
On June 11, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing.
- [01:12]
Holly Fry
Hey, if they'll kill a cop and bury him, what are they going to do to me?
- [01:15]
Tracy V. Wilson
What really happened to the missing deputy? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert.
- [01:27]
Holly Fry
Listen to Valley of shadows on the.
- [01:29]
Tracy V. Wilson
Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts. This show contains information subject to but not limited to personal takes, rumors, not so accurate stats, and plenty more. What's up, man? This your boy, Nav Green from the Broken Play podcast? Look, it's the end of the season. The playoffs are here. But guess what? It ain't the end of your season. You can always tune in with Broken Play Podcast with Nav Green on the Black Effect Podcast Network. Not a team who ain't going to the playoffs. The Chief it's time to rebuild. Listen to Broken Play with Nav Green from the Black Effect Podcast Network on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast or wherever you get your podcast. Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartradio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry.
- [02:22]
Holly Fry
And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.
- [02:26]
Tracy V. Wilson
We're talking about something I have wanted to talk about for a long, like, literal years. Yeah, it is tricky to pinpoint the origin of embroidered embellishment for obvious reasons, most textiles that were around before recorded history don't exist anymore. They have not survived the ravage of time. And as a consequence, depending on what source you look at, you'll actually see different timelines for the origin of needlework used to decorate fabric. And then to add to that. This is, of course, a global art. Different cultures have employed embroidered embellishments for a long time. It seems to spontaneously arise kind of in every culture in some way, which I think is cool. But each of those cultures had their own timelines regarding when embroidery was adopted into their handiwork. But as I just mentioned, I've been wanting to talk about embroidery and its history for a long time. When I tell you literal years, not kidding. And I have loved it for a lot of years, and I have started and not completed this episode a minimum of five times.
- [03:26]
Holly Fry
Yeah.
- [03:28]
Tracy V. Wilson
Where I'm like, I don't. I can't wrap my head around how to manage all of this. I don't know that I did manage all of this, but it's because it's overwhelming. There's a lot. You can't be comprehensive at all, and you have to accept that and try to pick pieces that you think will give people a decent set of informational facts and contexts without being able to fully flesh out every concept. But then over the holidays, when I was working, but things were a little bit slower, I had some time to dig out the books that I have been amassing on the subject, and I tried to figure out a way to talk about it. So the way it's usually talked about when you read histories is usually through, like, a bifurcated narrative. The reason for that is that we know some things about ancient embroidery around the world, but then the subject largely splits in two directions. Western and specifically English embroidery traditions, and Asian, specifically Chinese embroidery traditions, to the point that you will have books that say a comprehensive history of embroidery, and they're only about one or the other, which makes it very tricky. But the Silk Road, of course, is a bridge between them. And there are instances where some developments were happening in one culture's needlework traditions that would impact others later on. So it's very hard to keep everything linear. Thus, here's your warning. We're going to jump around a little bit. But also, as I said, embroidery has a massive history. It could be a podcast in its own right, although that would be for a rather niche audience. The embroidery show, which I would listen to, but I don't. You know, this is a more general history show. So to Try to make it all work, sort of. This is in the embroidery tradition, more of a sampler of information. We're going to talk about embroidery samplers in a bit. And when I say in a bit, I mean next episode, because this is a two parter.
- [05:24]
Holly Fry
Part two.
- [05:26]
Tracy V. Wilson
And even so, I just want to caveat. This means we are leaving so much out even with a two parter.
- [05:31]
Holly Fry
So.
- [05:31]
Tracy V. Wilson
So for a show like ours, which is not an all embroidery podcast, my goal is to showcase how important embellishment of fabric has been throughout all of human history as a means of expression and artistry and a way to share information. You may think you do not have much of a connection to embroidery, but I promise you, embroidered pieces have been part of almost every story throughout human history. Thus probably yours, whether you knew it or not.
- [05:59]
Holly Fry
So embroidery is, at its most basic definition, the embellishment of a fabric using a needle and thread to create some kind of decoration. According to the Oxford English Dictionary, the first known use of the word embroidery in English print appeared in the writings of 14th century writer John Gower, who mentioned it in his work Confessio Amantis. This is part of the confessions of the character Amans, who notes his lady embroidering. The word is is borrowed from the French embroider, which is a verb, and the word broderie, which is a noun. But humans were engaging in embroidery so long before it had that name.
- [06:45]
Tracy V. Wilson
Ancient needles made from animal bone, complete with eyes to pass thread through, have been found in Europe and Asia and have been dated back as far as 38,000 BCE. North American finds of similar objects are estimated to be between 12,000 and 13,500 years old. So all over the world for thousands of years, this has been something that's come up. Examples of actual embroidery have been noted in fossils dating back to 30,000 BCE during the Paleolithic era. But we don't know a whole lot about those early efforts. There is evidence of embroidery and beads being used in that embroidery, and even in one case, a stitch that finished the edges of a garment, like a buttonhole stitch. But what has been seen is largely just fragments and kind of like hints at what we think think it is. What we actually do know conclusively, actually jumps us forward in time quite a bit to Ancient Egypt in the 11th century BCE. And we know that the ancient Egyptians used embroidery thanks to their burial rituals. There are a number of fairly well preserved examples of embellished textiles from tombs. One example is made up of two pieces of fabric from the funeral tent of Queen Istemkaeb. This fabric is actually animal hide and it's specifically gazelle, and it has a pink leather cording stitched to it with pink thread to form a decorative binding along the edge. So not exactly embroidery as we would think of it, but certainly an embellishment with fabric and a needle and thread.
- [08:16]
Holly Fry
Also in Egypt, but several hundred years later, there's another example that we don't have in hand, but we have a description of it which was written by Herodotus. He writes of an Egyptian corselet, which in this instance means a piece of decorative armor. Quote, it was made of linen, ornamented with numerous figures and animals, worked in gold and cotton. Each thread of the corselet was worthy of admiration. According to the additional description provided by Herodotus, each individual thread was made up of 360 other threads. All these threads, according to the writing, were very clearly visible. The stitchers in the audience are probably trying to envision what that would look like, and honestly, so are we. 360 threads, even if they are very, very fine, would make a significantly sized cord if they were all twist twisted together. So maybe this was stitched down in a way that spiraled and showcased all of these threads. Or maybe Herodotus was like a little confused about how embroidery works. Maybe it is a translation issue. Who can say? In any case, he mentions in the histories that this was a gift from the pharaoh Amasis to the Simians. And then another similar corselet was given to the temple of Minerva in Lindis. The earliest surviving piece of embroidery is a piece that was taken from the tomb of Tutankhamun, dating back to about the 1320s BCE. And by that point, needles made from metal were already in use.
- [09:53]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yes. So just in case you're like, wait, you said there is evidence of older than that. This is the first actual surviving piece of embroidery. And we're going to talk about some early evidence of embellishment stitching in China after we first pause for a sponsor break. New year, new goals, and in this economy, a better money plan is more necessary than ever.
- [10:15]
Holly Fry
I am Matt.
- [10:16]
Tracy V. Wilson
And I'm Joel.
- [10:17]
Holly Fry
We are from the how to Money podcast. And every week we help you to spend smarter, save more, and make sense.
- [10:22]
Tracy V. Wilson
Of what's going on out there.
- [10:24]
Holly Fry
If you want 2026 to be the year you finally feel in control of your money, we're here to give you the tools and advice to help you make it happen. Listen to how to Money on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [10:37]
Tracy V. Wilson
Hi Kyle. Could you draw up a quick document with the basic business plan? Just one page as a Google Doc and send me the link. Thanks. Hey, just finished drawing up that quick one page business plan for you. Here's the link. But there was no link.
- [10:50]
Holly Fry
There was no business plan.
- [10:52]
Tracy V. Wilson
It's not his fault. I hadn't programmed Kyle to be able to do that yet. My name is Evan Ratliff.
- [10:57]
Holly Fry
I decided to create Kyle, my AI.
- [10:59]
Tracy V. Wilson
Co founder, after hearing a lot of stuff like this from OpenAI CEO Sam Altman. There's this betting pool for the first year that there's a one person billion dollar company which would have been like unimaginable without AI. And now will happen.
- [11:11]
Holly Fry
I got to thinking, could I be that one person?
- [11:14]
Tracy V. Wilson
I'd made AI agents before for my award winning podcast Shell Game. This season on Shell Game, I'm trying to build a real company with a.
- [11:21]
Holly Fry
Real product run by fake people. Oh hey Evan.
- [11:25]
Tracy V. Wilson
Good to have you join us. I found some really interesting data on adoption rates for AI agents in small to medium businesses. Listen to Shell game on the iHeartRadio.
- [11:35]
Holly Fry
App or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [11:38]
Tracy V. Wilson
On June 11, 1998, a deputy from the Los Angeles County Sheriff's Department went missing. It's an all out manhunt for John Ajay.
- [11:46]
Holly Fry
Every search and rescue team in LA.
- [11:48]
Tracy V. Wilson
County has been called in to help. Within days, tips started flooding into the Sheriff's department.
- [11:54]
Holly Fry
The rumor around the drug scene was.
- [11:57]
Tracy V. Wilson
That a deputy was taken care of. Is this the story of a man who just got lost in the desert? Or of a cover up inside the nation's largest sheriff's department? A homicide captain saying, detective, do not find out if this guy's guilty or innocent. Who does that? Valley of Shadows, a new series from Pushkin Industries about crime and corruption in California's high desert. Do you have any advice for us while looking into this disappearance? I wouldn't do it alone. Listen to Valley of shadows on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.
- [12:40]
Holly Fry
Hey everyone, it's Ed Helms and I'm.
- [12:42]
Tracy V. Wilson
Kal Penn and we are the hosts of Earsay, the Audible and iHeart Audiobook Club. This week on the podcast I am talking to film and TV critic, radio and podcast host and Harry Potter superfan Rhianna Dillon to discuss Audible's full cast.
- [12:59]
Holly Fry
Adaptation of Harry Potter and the Sorcerer's Stone.
- [13:04]
Tracy V. Wilson
What moments in this audiobook capture the feeling of the magical world best for you or just stood out? The most. I always loved reading about the Quidditch matches and I think the audio really gets it because it just plunges you right into the stands. You have the crowd sounds like all around you. It is surround sound, especially if you're listening in headphones.
- [13:28]
Holly Fry
Listen to Earsay, the Audible and iHeart.
- [13:31]
Tracy V. Wilson
Audio Book Club on the iHeartradio app or wherever you get your podcasts. All right, we're about to talk about some Chinese things and let me just tell you, I know my pronunciation is not good, so we're doing our best. Blessings upon you for your patience. At an archaeological site outside of Beijing known as Zukudian and dated to 16,000 BCE, researchers have uncovered a wide range of bone needles. Similarly, beads made from shell, bone and stone have been found throughout China and other Asian countries, indicating that in addition to possibly trading some these items, people were using them to embellish clothing. Renowned embroiderer and historian Young Yong Chung described the use of what she called proto embroidery in her book Silken A History of Embroidery in China, Korea, Japan, and Vietnam as a way to track migration and cultural development in Asia. She notes that proto embroidery really shows up in the northern areas of Asia first, and also that the earliest evidence of a spindle whorl, which is a weighted object that was used on a spindle to maintain a consistent speed for creating yarns, shows up in the Late Neolithic period. So that means after 7000 BCE, an.
- [15:02]
Holly Fry
Especially important development in embroidery history, and in textiles in general, happened when people in China developed the ability to cultivate silkworms themselves rather than just gathering silk pods. Silk pods from wild silkworms would have only provided short filaments that had to be very carefully wound together to form longer fibers. And that's because as a silkworm emerges from the cocoon, it produces a secretion that breaks the cocoon down so it can emerge. But once silkworms were domesticated, these pods could be harvested before the chrysalis inside matured. So the silk from the pod could be unwound in one long continuous piece. That made it possible to create much finer silk textiles. And this was a technique that enabled China to be the sole producer of silk for a long time.
- [15:56]
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah, their whole technique of weaving was like a secret for many, many years. Well before the Silk Road was officially established in the 2nd century BCE, silk was in production, and embroidery on it was part of Chinese culture. For example, the chain stitch was in use as early as the 5th century BCE in China. And also what we call the Silk Road was really a collection of Smaller trade routes that had been in use that started to coalesce as trade increased. Even in that coalesced state, there were actually many routes, not just one. UNESCO actually uses the plural term silk roads when talking about this trade network. But the most important thing, at least as it relates to what we're talking about today, is that ideas were being exchanged along these routes, as well as goods. And as more people saw Chinese embroidery, the designs and techniques were borrowed and copied and incorporated into the stitching of other cultures. So as we talk about the embroidery traditions of various places around the globe, we have to keep in mind that there is a degree to which they are all linked developmentally, thanks to this trade of ideas and designs.
- [17:04]
Holly Fry
In the years that the silk roads were developing and flourishing, so were the embroidery styles of China. And what emerged were four primary schools of embroidery. Each one was associated with a different region of the country. Shoe embroidery is associated with the Sichuan province, and its style is incredibly intricate, to the point of looking, in some cases, almost like photographs created from threads. The stitching is very tight, with colors that blend together rather than showing any sharp lines of color blocking. Nature imagery is very popular, and pandas, which are associated with the city of Chengdu, they're commonly seen in this style of embroidery.
- [17:46]
Tracy V. Wilson
Zhang embroidery is associated with Hunan province, and it tends to be very bold in its designs. The intricacy of this style is evidenced in the fact that the back side of the embroidery is not just beautiful, but it is also usually a different image. So the embroiderer is creating two pieces of art at once. So if you look at a piece, say, oh, my gosh, this is beautiful, and flip it over, you're going to see a different image that is also beautiful. These designs often use animals with high contrast between colors. Hsu embroidery, which is named for the city of Soochow in the Jiangsu province, remains the most popular of the Chinese embroidery schools today. It is characterized by very fine needlework with very narrow needles and thin threads to create this incredibly rich, detailed imagery. There are often many, many colors at play in any given design, and some feature mirrored designs on the back of the work. The last of the four schools is Yue embroidery, which is also called Cantonese embroidery. This is a very old style. This embroidery is often very colorful, but it doesn't have the photographic quality of some of the other styles. And it's also usually worked in cotton thread rather than silk. But all four of these styles are officially recognized as part of China's intangible cultural heritage.
- [19:06]
Holly Fry
Other early surviving examples of embroidery come from the Scythian Empire. The Scythian culture dates back to the span of time from 900 to 200 BCE. This was a nomadic warrior culture. They're primarily associated with southern Siberia and modern day Ukraine. They had a reputation for being fearsome. According to the writings of Herodotus quote, none who attacks them can escape, and none can catch them if they desire not to be found.
- [19:37]
Tracy V. Wilson
But in addition to that interesting part of their legacy, the Scythians also valued art and personal adornment. They cast metal jewelry and they had tattoos, and they also embroidered felt pieces, possibly part of burial. Accoutrements have been found with shapes embroidered on them. But those old ones are far more basic than the more recent discoveries. One of the interesting aspects of some of those more recent discoveries of Scythian embroidery shows the way that their nomadic lifestyle offered them the opportunity to borrow motifs from other cultures over the centuries. And once again, this goes back to how deeply connected all humans are. Motifs like lotus flowers have been tracked by researchers as they appeared on textiles embroidered in China and then seem to have slowly been adopted by other cultures who came in contact with China and then made their way to inner Asian cultures, including the Scythians. Similarly, Greek and Persian designs also appear on Scythian embroidered textiles. So over time, the Scythians were really incorporated, incorporating designs into their embroidery that they borrowed from seeing them in a lot of places elsewhere.
- [20:46]
Holly Fry
The use of embroidery on Scythian clothing is also unique as a stylistic element in terms of placement. Archaeologist Margarita Glebe mentioned in the book Dressing the past in 2008 that quote, the decorative elements on garments have been placed in such a manner as to highlight the edges and the seams. Seams especially were emphasized with embroidery. Glebe notes that there are some historians that have stated that using decorations at garment edges, like neck and sleeve openings, was part of a way to keep evil spirits from entering the clothing. I think Holly wants to embroider all the hems and seams and edges. That way everything will keep evil spirits out. Yeah, tell everybody. That's the reason Scythian embroidery is also known to have been a way that the embroiderers tried to imbue their garments with luck. The idea of amulet embroidery, which often appears on things like loose fitting, tunic style shirts, has continued into the present day. One aspect of Scythian embroidery that also applies to a lot of other cultures is that the work is attributed almost exclusively to women and girls. And that's not entirely surprising. Sewing of any kind has been considered women's work in a lot of cultures, not universally, but a lot. Some of the writing about this work on Scythian garments, specifically as it relates to luck, suggests that there was a certain power in the act of creation for the women, who may have sung or repeated specific phrases while working to manifest that luck in the stitches. There are also mentions of these lucky or protective garments being worn by men under their armor when they went into battle, as they believed in the power of the embroidered amulets.
- [22:37]
Tracy V. Wilson
One particularly striking example of Scythian embroidery made the rounds online in the early 2000s, although it had been discovered decades before that it's a leather boot that has been embellished with thread and beadwork, even on the sole. This example, which is estimated to be around 2,300 years old, was found in a burial ground in Siberia's Altai Mountains in the mid 20th century. So it likely wasn't intended for real world use if it was a burial garment, which is why it is more intact than footwear that would have been part of someone's everyday wardrobe. And the embellishment on it is ornate. Along the uppers of the boot is a beautiful scrollwork that incorporates beads into the silk stitches. The carefully pleated toe is joined to the sole in a way that looks exactly like modern ballet slippers. And the sole itself has three diamond shapes of different sizes outlined with beaded embroidery and then filled in with additional embroidery and beadwork. It's an incredibly beautiful piece and it's part of the collection of the Hermitage Museum in St. Petersburg, Russia.
- [23:44]
Holly Fry
Modern day Ukraine honors the embroidery tradition of the Scythians. In 2006, a student led initiative started with the intent to make May 16th embroidery day. That slowly spread and gained traction until it got government support in 2015. This is not the only embroidery day that there is in the world. Sweden is credited with creating World embroidery day in 2011 for example, and that falls on July 30th.
- [24:12]
Tracy V. Wilson
We're going to take a break to hear from the sponsors that keep the show going and when we're back we are going to talk about prehistoric embroidery in Peru. Peru has a rich prehistoric embroidery story as well, and as, as is the case with ancient Egypt, we have examples due to their rituals of mummifying the dead and including lots of hand worked articles with them in burial. Centuries before the Incan empire was present in the area, indigenous Peruvian peoples were creating incredibly intricate textile art. The archaeological site known as Pachacamak, which sits southeast of Lima, has a Cemetery, which has been the source of a lot of embroidery finds.
- [24:57]
Holly Fry
The Peruvian examples show multiple kinds of embellishment being combined. So, for example, sometimes designs woven into a fabric on a loom would then be embellished with embroidery. The motifs of these examples are graphic representations of things from the natural world, mostly things like octopus, fish and wild cats. While some look like blocky, stylized animals that are pretty easy to recognize, others are more abstract, and their forms have been altered to fit a space or a design. A lot of early Peruvian embroidery samples feature imagery that's heavily filled in, creating full, detailed pictures, rather than being an assembly of different design motifs.
- [25:41]
Tracy V. Wilson
There are also a lot of historical instances of embroidery being used as a way to create substitutions for other textiles that were otherwise unattainable. So as fabrics with interwoven design started to be made in places like Greece and Egypt after the invention of the warp weighted loom in the 15th century BCE, those textiles would have been extremely costly and available only to the extremely wealthy. So people who wanted a similar look but couldn't afford those woven in designs turned to embroidery embellishments. Later examples of this come from the Copts, the indigenous Christian ethno religious community of Egypt. Starting from the 1st century CE1 Coptic embroidery technique involved weaving the embellishment thread into the base fabric in a way that created motifs that would often outlive the original fabric itself. And so when those garments wore out or broke down that embroidery piece, those would often be used as an applique, almost like a patch that would be stitched onto a new garment.
- [26:44]
Holly Fry
The Byzantine Empire's love of embroidery is well known, in part because that empire lasted long enough that we have some good examples of it today. Because the Byzantine Empire had very specific rules about what people could wear based on their place in society, we have a clear picture of who wore what types of embroidery. A linen and wool military tunic dated to sometime in the 4th or 5th century, for example, has repeating isolated motifs embroidered on it in purple. High ranking military officials had entire panels of their cloaks covered in embroidery, suggesting that the value of the handiwork was recognized. And the higher you were in rank, the more embellishment you could have. In the 7th and 8th centuries, heads of state wore large draped cloths around their torso called loros, and those were covered in embroidery that also incorporated gemstones.
- [27:43]
Tracy V. Wilson
By the 5th century, Japan had picked up the embroidery tradition that began in China and started to develop their own unique styles in Japan. Early embroidery was almost all religious in nature and embellished fabrics were usually pictures of Buddha. Those fabrics are known as shibutsu. These began as adornment for temples, and then over time, they were adopted as decor for private homes. In the 8th century, when Kyoto became the country's capital, embroidery experienced this huge surge in popularity as it started to be used as decoration for clothing, Although at that point, only theatrical costumes and the clothing of the aristocracy included. Expanded into use in religious garments in the 14th century and then onto samurai uniforms and in the 17th century. In the Edo period, embroidery became incredibly opulent and very detailed.
- [28:37]
Holly Fry
Embroidery in Korea developed an estimated 2,000 years ago. One story is linked to the Silla kingdom of the 1st century and queen Jinduk who had a special embroidery made featuring a hundred Chinese characters with decoration to give to China's Tang Dynasty. Embroidery really started to flourish in Korea starting in the 14th century during the Joseon Dynasty. And like China, four different styles of embroidery called chasu developed. There was Pogchik jasu for clothing, Kyung chasu for items used in the royal palace, Kamsang chasu for styles of artistic work, and Buddhist chasu for temple decor. Within these styles, there are, of course, different stitching techniques to create the various designs and artwork created by the stitcher.
- [29:32]
Tracy V. Wilson
During the Liao dynasty in China, which lasted from 907 to 1125, an important heavily embroidered garment originated, which would become, in fact, so important in its role in court culture that it was eventually tightly regulated. And that is the dragon robe. The dragon robe, which is, as the name suggests, a garment with multiple dragons embroidered on it, as well as other motifs, is a long garment with an asymmetrical neckline closure. These robes have an incredibly rich history. People have written books on just them, but the design of them is what we're focusing on today. In 1759, a document titled the Regulations for the Ceremonial Paraphernalia of the Qing Dynasty was completed after a decade of work. And that decade had been spent reviewing the styles of clothing worn at court, and specifically the dragon robes. And it came up with a very strict code of regulations as to how those garments could be worn and who could wear them going forward. And so for this reason, you will often see the origin of the dragon robe linked to the year 1759, because that is when the robes as we know them today were codified.
- [30:41]
Holly Fry
Those 18th century regulations included things like the rule that only the emperor, the Empress Dowager, the Empress, and first rank consorts could wear bright yellow. This had been a standard practice in previous dynasties, but it became a lot more rigid from this point. On other colors were also regulated to various levels of status within the royal court, Although people were not restricted to only those colors. The emperor did not only wear yellow, for example. Additionally, the embroidery designs on the robes were governed by rules. Five clawed dragons were only for men in the immediate royal family. Grandsons of the emperor, for example, were not considered immediate, and they could only wear dragons with four claws. Other symbols were also designated for different ranks. All of this regulation over the embroidery of court dress might seem fussy, but it served as a communication tool. A visiting dignitary would immediately know if he was speaking with one of the emperor's sons, for example.
- [31:48]
Tracy V. Wilson
In the 7th and 8th centuries, embroidery in the British Isles really starts to be trackable, as religious orders started to employ it for garments. This needlework was typically performed by nuns and monks. And this was the beginning of a stitching tradition in England that would become a legacy tied closely to religion and royalty and known for a high degree of proficiency in artistry. But the next piece that we're going to talk about has had some debate over the years regarding whether it was even made in England or not.
- [32:19]
Holly Fry
That is a frequent subject on the show, which is that in 1077, one of the most famous pieces of embroidery in history was created, and that was the Bay Tapestry. This famous work of propaganda art depicts the period of time leading up to and including the Battle of hastings. So from 1064 to 1066, and the conquest of England by William, Duke of Normandy in 1066. The tapestry, which is actually a massive embroidery piece, was the subject of a 2011 episode from prior hosts Sarah and Deblina. I think they also did an update on it. It's come up with a bunch of times on Unearthed, including recently. So we will not rehash all of that stuff from that earlier episode from Sarah and deblina that mostly talks about the events leading up to the creation of this embroidery that are depicted in the stitches.
- [33:14]
Tracy V. Wilson
So this piece of art combines the narrative account with allegorical imagery related to honor and loyalty. Those allegorical parts of it are along the border. And it is huge. It's 70 meters long. It's a little less than 230ft. It's made up of nine panels of linen which are stitched together into one. And this piece has had restoration work performed over the years, and it is not all great. One of the problems that has arisen with restoration work performed in the 19th century is that the newer wool fibers have not proven as colorfast as the originals, which were dyed with Dyer's woad, madder and Dyer's rocket. While some of the original blue tones, which were created with woad, have faded, Overall, the original 10 colors are in pretty good shape.
- [33:59]
Holly Fry
From a slightly more technical standpoint, there's an interesting type of stitch on the Bayou Tapestry that's been called at various times Bayou stitching. In addition to stem stitching, chain stitching, and split stitching, there is couching. Couching is a technique in which a cord or yarn doesn't pass through the backing fabric itself, and it's stitched down with another piece of yarn or floss that does pass through the backing fabric. This can be used for a variety of design purposes, but in the case of the Bayou Tapestry, it is the reason that the motifs and the characters and the bigger design have completely filled in sections like the clothes on the characters. In those cases, there are rows and rows of couched yarns stitched closely together to form a solid block of color. If you look closely at photos of the tapestry, you can clearly see this.
- [34:58]
Tracy V. Wilson
And the kicker, of course, about this piece is that we don't know who embroidered it. It had to have been a team of people. And there's an often repeated but completely unsubstantiated version that William the Conqueror's wife, Queen Matilda, worked on it, along with her ladies in waiting, to commemorate and honor William's achievements. Most historians write that off as pure romanticism. The first known mention of the tapestry in writing appeared 400 years after its creation in an inventory note of the Bayou Cathedral, describing it as a very long and narrow hanging on which are embroidered figures and inscriptions comprising a representation of the conquest of England and mentioning that this was used as a special occasion decoration. But it's a description of the piece. It doesn't say anything about its provenance, nothing of its history, other than we own this. The more popular belief on its origin is that it was commissioned by William's half brother, Bishop Odo of Bayeux, although that still leaves its craftspeople without any kind of credit. And there is debate about whether it was crafted in France or in England, with some scholars believing it was designed by monks at St. Augustine's Abbey in Canterbury.
- [36:12]
Holly Fry
In a bit of good fortune, an interesting paper about the Bayeux Tapestry came out just as Holly was starting research on this episode. It's one that we mentioned briefly in our recent unearthed in this paper titled Chewing over the Norman Conquest. The Bayeux Tapestry is Monastic Mealtime Reading, was written by Benjamin Paul and published in the periodical Historical Research. The writing starts from the idea that the tapestry was created in England and hung for a time in St. Augustine's Abbey. Paul's case is that the Bayeux Tapestry was always intended to be displayed in the Abbey of St. Augustine, and specifically that it was intended for the monastery dining hall. His argument is that it was to be displayed there as a piece of art for the monks to meditate on and perhaps be entertained by while they ate. He invokes the tapestry size and compares it to a measure of a long blank space in the abbey and notes that these measurements more or less match up, suggesting that the uniquely long embroidery was made precisely to fit that space. He also notes that the position of the tapestry, if hung as he describes, makes sense of the scale and the imagery and lettering quote, hung roughly at head height or slightly higher, the Bayou Tapestry's details would have been perfectly discernible from the seated position assumed by the monks and their guests during meal times in the refectory. This is true not only of the artifact's intricate iconography, but also and especially of its textual inscriptions. The argument continues that this would have been a place of silence. With the exception of a reader, something visual to focus on would have made sense. So kind of like an 11th century monk TV. There's a lot more in depth discussion in the paper. That paper will be linked in the show notes. And as we mentioned on that recent installment of Unearthed, this is very speculative and it came out of a class assignment that was designed to come up with possible scenarios to explain the providence of this famous work.
- [38:22]
Tracy V. Wilson
Incidentally, and we mentioned this briefly on Unearthed as well as we record this in early 2026, the Bayou Tapestry is not on display at the Bayeux Museum or anywhere. Right this moment, the museum is undergoing a multi year renovation and is expected to reopen in mid to late 2027. But from September 2026 until July 2027, it is going to be on loan to the British Museum. The Bayou Tapestry is a UNESCO registered memory of the world and it is priceless. So this loan is a huge deal. I think we also mentioned that the British Museum had to insure it for £800 million, which is like a billion dollars. I'm getting weepy over embroidery. The cool thing is if you can't make it to London to see it or Bayou, you can check out the entire thing online. It's a scrollable digital file at the Bayou Museum's website. You can look for couching. It's very obvious.
- [39:21]
Holly Fry
This is where we're going to end Part one of this episode. When we start Part two, we will pick up right where we left off and talk about embroidery in the writing of Chaucer. And we'll finally get to the discussion of samplers.
- [39:34]
Tracy V. Wilson
I have listener mail and it's embroidery related.
- [39:37]
Holly Fry
Hooray.
- [39:38]
Tracy V. Wilson
Hooray. I'm on target. This is from our listener Katie, who writes hi Holly and Tracy. We just heard the episode about Cranberries and of course enjoyed it. Did you ever hear of the books set in the fictional town of Cranberryport? They're among the favorites of my family's holiday collections. Yes, even with teens, Cranberry Thanksgiving, Cranberry Christmas, Etc by Wendy and Harry Devlin feature Maggie, her grandmother, their carefree neighbor, Mr. Whiskers, and the town grouch, Mr. Grape, along with others. The stories are very sweet. All the books include a recipe for a cranberry treat. I did not know about these books, but that sounds adorable. No pets, but here's a work in progress. Sewing picture of a big cross stitch piece based, as you can see, on motifs from the Haunted Mansion. One of my favorites and I think it's Holly's too. Best wishes, Katie. It is and this is very cool. She is working this really beautiful piece that is going to be when it's completed. A design that includes the stretching room portraits but laid out in a circular fashion around almost like a big clock face. The clock, the famous clock, you know, if you know is featured on it. And I can already see the Gravedigger and his dog, which is the most upsetting piece of that attraction for me and the opera singers and I bet it's going to be spectacular. So Katie, I hope you send me a picture when it's all done because we love some haunted mansion here in my house, that's for sure.
- [41:02]
Holly Fry
If you would like to send us.
- [41:04]
Tracy V. Wilson
Pictures of your embroidery or really anything else, you can do that@history podcastheartradio.com and if you haven't subscribed to the show and you want to make sure you get part two, you could do that on the iHeartRadio app or anywhere you listen to your favorite shows.
- [41:25]
Holly Fry
Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows. This is an iHeart podcast. Guaranteed Human.