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Holly Fry
Listen to your elders, honey. You might know them from their viral videos, but now the old gays are pulling back the curtain with their new podcast, Silver Linings with the Old Gays, brought to you in partnership with iHeart's Ruby Studio and Veeve Healthcare. Hosts Robert, Mick, Bill and Jesse serve their lifetime of wisdom when it comes to love, sex, community and whatever else they've got on the gay agenda. So check out Silver Linings with the Old gays on the iHeartRadio app or wherever you get your podcasts.
Dennis Black
Ever notice your dog slowing down and having health issues and wonder what can I do to make them better? Well, my friend, add rough greens to your dog's food for 90 days and I guarantee you'll see changes that will amaze you. Greetings naturopathic doctor Dennis Black, inventor of Ruff Greens here and I invite you to give your pup the Ruff Greens 90 day challenge. In the first 30 days you'll see shinier coats and increased energy. By day 60 you'll your dog will have a stronger immune system, less shedding, improved joint function, all due to the live nutrients that you've added to their diet. And at 90 days, better digestion, reduced inflammation, improved heart health and you may even have reduced their cancer risk. Fetch your dog a free Jumpstart trial bag today. Go to try rough greens.com use promo code Try rough. That's T R Y R U F f. Go to try rough greens.com use promo code try rough. You just cover the shipping. You don't have to change your dog's food to improve your dog's health. Just add a scoop of rough greens.
Kristen Davis
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast. Are you a Charlotte? Sarah Jessica Parker is here and she is sharing stories from the very beginning. Like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Sarah Jessica Parker
I remember some things about shooting the pilot, right?
Kristen Davis
I have some memories. I can fill in.
Sarah Jessica Parker
And you're going to fill me in.
Kristen Davis
Yes. But then you forgot about it.
Holly Fry
I completely.
Kristen Davis
In the very long time they took.
Sarah Jessica Parker
You forgot about it.
Kristen Davis
Listen to Are you a Charlotte on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Holly Fry
Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio. Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Holly Fry.
Tracy V. Wilson
And I'm Tracy V. Wilson.
Holly Fry
I just got back from Japan.
Tracy V. Wilson
You did?
Holly Fry
Where I was a little longer than planned due to some travel delays. But that's fine. It's a lovely place. And we visited some sites. I was there for a Star wars convention and then we tacked on additional days to do other things. And I will confess that I did not because I was kind of scrambling to make sure we had enough of this show's episodes and the other shows I work on all in the can. I did very little planning for this trip, so I was like, whatever y'.
Tracy V. Wilson
All want to do.
Holly Fry
I went with my husband and my best friend and I let them pick the itinerary, which was actually great. And we went to a lot of cool places. Listen, you may recall that when we traveled internationally, my husband is ever on the lookout for was a John Wick filmed here. And then we go. And then we go. But in this. And we did do that in Japan. But one of the things that my best friend picked was visiting the Meiji Jingu Shrine, which was very, very cool. And it was kind of funny because as we were walking along, there's quite a long walk to get from the city street into the shrine. This beautiful walk. We'll talk about it a little at the end. And we were discussing how old it was or was not. And of course I am ever like, hey, we have magic boxes in our pockets. Why don't we look this up? And we were all surprised that it was much newer than we thought because it doesn't feel new at all. And I was like, this is fascinating. And I to talk about the whole story of this, which means that we have to talk about Emperor Meiji, which is also just an interesting story about an important and transitional part of Japan's history. Yeah, I'm not a Japanese or Asian studies scholar, but I have sure read a lot of books. And I had a 14 hour plane ride back to do some of that. So. And in one case, you know, I'm just gonna make direct quotes because it involves spiritual things that I would feel uncomfortable trying to parse not having been a part of it in any way ever, except for this visit to this shrine. So that's what's up. And we're going to talk about this little part of Japan's history.
Tracy V. Wilson
Yeah. So to talk about the Meiji Jingu Shrine, we first need to talk about who Emperor Meiji was. Emperor Meiji's Reign began in 1867. Of course this is going to be an incredibly abbreviated version of that whole reign. We could not talk about the entirety of it in an episode. Meiji is the name he took as emperor. He was born Mutsuhito on November 3, 1852. He was the second son of the preceding emperor. Kome. Koume's first son had died in infancy. During Koume's reign, the Emperor had largely been a figurehead and Japan was mainly governed by the Tokugawa Shogunate. It was during the time of Comey that Japan, which had been mostly closed to foreigners, particularly foreigners from outside of asia for about 250 years, was opened up more under Commodore Matthew Perry's arrival and request. He showed up sort of a famous story at this point, backed up by a show of naval power. So at that point the country opened its ports to the US. The Treaty of Kanagawa was signed on March 31 of 1854. And while it was not a commercial treaty, it was really lopsided in favor of the United States. It made it possible for the US to make more financially strategic moves with Japan.
Holly Fry
So when Emperor Kome died in 1867, 14 year old Meiji inherited the throne of a nation that was already in the midst of a great deal of change, both externally the world stage, but also internally, as its identity was evolving as a result of those external changes and exposure to new influences. Kome had not been in favor of modernizing to align with Western ideologies, including the dissolution of the Shogunate and feudal ruling structure. But his son Meiji favored modernization and he made a lot of changes to Japan's governmental organization. And though he was Emperor from the time his father died, it wasn't until 1868, when the last Tokugawa Shogun resigned after a bit of a power struggle, that the role of Emperor was actually seen as head of the country. This important change and the taking of the name Meiji by the Emperor is known as the Meiji Restoration. And it also signaled a lot more massive changes ahead.
Tracy V. Wilson
So there were a lot of reasons that a lot of people in Japan opposed these kinds of changes. And it's pretty easy from our Western perspective to boil this down in such a way that it makes it seem like the like pre modernization age was primitive or backwards. And there are a lot of Western texts that seem to want to frame it in this way. But Japan had a really complex structure of governance and it was incredibly stable for a long time. Writing for the journal Southeast Asian Studies in 1995, Hisao Furukawa explained, quote, under its seclusionist policy, Japan had achieved a balance among its disparate types of leadership, the Imperial court, the nobility and the Shogun. Under the Shogunate alan system of shared government, which rested on a rice stipend system, the clans functioned rather like a hundred or more self supporting companies competing economically with each other. A controlling organization of shogunate daimyo and clan executives, samurai, village headmen and nago servant peasants ran a complicated and subtle administrative organization. Not only commercial capital, but also industrial capital was sufficiently available. So thinking about this stability, it becomes more apparent why there would be some consternation and resistance to adopting practices and ideas from western culture.
Holly Fry
In 1868, the young emperor Meiji made a number of big changes. And one was that Edo was renamed Tokyo, which means Eastern capital, and the imperial residence was moved there. Kyoto had been the imperial capital up to that point, but the move to Tokyo meant that the capital city, which sits on Tokyo Bay, which opens out into the Pacific Ocean, had a better position as an international shipping port. Another change was that he enacted the charter oath of five principles written by a young group of samurai, sometimes called the Meiji oligarchs, who had fought to overthrow the Shogunate. And these principles were designed to westernize and modernize the country and really make it a player on the global stage. This was a short document and it reads in its entirety as follows. Quote. By this oath we set up as our aim the establishment of the national wheel on a broad basis and the framing of a constitution and laws. 1. Deliberative assemblies shall be widely established and all matters decided by public discussion. Two, all classes, high and low, shall unite in vigorously carrying out the administration of affairs of state. Three, the common people, no less than the civil and military officials, shall each be allowed to pursue his own calling so that there may be no discontent. Four, Evil customs of the past shall be broken off and everything based upon the just laws of nature. 5. Knowledge shall be sought throughout the world so as to strengthen the foundations of imperial rule.
Tracy V. Wilson
So two things. We just mentioned that a group of samurai wrote that document, not the emperor, not even one of his close advisors. And that's indicative of how his reign played out. He ruled in a sort of indirect way, with a lot of input from various Sectors. Second, if that language in the charter sounds kind of nebulous to you, you are not alone. It was to people in Japan at the time as well. It promises freedoms to the people, but it was also carefully crafted to ensure that restrictions could still be laid out. And the fourth point in particular offered some leeway. Quote, evil customs of the past are not clearly defined. And neither was what would or would not be considered okay, according to the quote, just laws of nature. And there were restrictions. Political parties were not allowed, nor was rioting to protest the government.
Holly Fry
Yeah, I didn't put it in the outline, but that phrase about being according to the just laws of nature falled very much in line with what we'll talk about in a bit, which was making Shinto the national religion. And in reaction to the new government, which was seen as being led by a bunch of young upstarts, which it really was compared to the country's prior leadership, there was a conflict which came to be known as the Boshin War or the Boshin Civil War. The name Boshin refers to the year that the war started. And this war, which had a lot of other influences and a long lead up, could certainly be its own episode. But in terms of Meiji's rule, the conflict lasted a year and a half. And it reflected the turmoil of the nation and a lot of fear about Japan losing that stability it had enjoyed for centuries. Ultimately, the shogunate was defeated in 1871. The feudal system was abolished completely. The massive nature of this shift cannot be overstated. It changed a seven century practice of feudal domains run by local daimyo into a prefecture system that rolled up under the umbrella of the country's central government. But though the Meiji government got rid of the feudal system, it was not as though the entire previous organizational structure and its leadership was just thrown out entirely. In many cases, the feudal lords who had been in power became governors under this new structure. And there were still efforts to create new forces that were hoping to push back on the Meiji government. So there was ongoing conflict and ongoing efforts to be like, let's reverse things and go back to the old way. And that led to ongoing concerns about rebellions and possible added civil wars as the transition known as the Meiji Reformation played out.
Tracy V. Wilson
Coming up, we'll talk about some additional changes to life in Japan during the Meiji period. But first we will pause for a sponsor Breaking news.
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T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are On America's largest 5G network Switch now Keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid cart. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com keepandswitch up to 4 lines of your virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption. Required card is no cash access and expires in six months.
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Podcast Host
I found out that was related to.
Sarah Jessica Parker
The guy that I was dating.
Holly Fry
I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now and I cannot decide if I like him or not.
Podcast Host
Those were some callers from my call in Podcast Therapy Gecko It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a fake Gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show.
Holly Fry
I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss shark in our apartment. I collect my roommates toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29 they.
Talkspace Advertiser
Don'T let me move out of their house.
Podcast Host
So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head. Search for therapy gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it.
Kristen Davis
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast Are you a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here and she is sharing stories from the very beginning. Like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Sarah Jessica Parker
I remember some things about shooting the pilot.
Holly Fry
Right.
Kristen Davis
I have some memories I can fill.
Sarah Jessica Parker
In and that you're going to fill me in.
Kristen Davis
Yes, but then you forgot about it in the very long time they took the pictures.
Sarah Jessica Parker
Forgot about it.
Kristen Davis
And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
Sarah Jessica Parker
He said he wrote this like I was in his head in some way, which I found really interesting.
Kristen Davis
And does she think Carrie is too good for Mr. Big?
Sarah Jessica Parker
She had inexplicable feelings. It is a human being that can't explain to her friends why somebody that might be beneath her is dictating the hunt.
Kristen Davis
You can't miss this. Listen to Are you a Charlotte? On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
Holly Fry
The Meiji period, named for its progressive emperor, saw other massive shifts in the way Japan was run. As we mention each of these, just know that just like the transition from the Shogunate system, none of these were universally accepted or instantly implemented. And they all have their own very bumpy stories. A new school system was established in 1872 through the education System Order, and this plan created a national standardization for education, and it made education universal throughout Japan so that all children would receive an education and the population overall would see an increase in intellectual understanding and pursuits.
Tracy V. Wilson
In addition to education for all, the government sought to equalize the nation by declaring that the class system that had so long determined the course of the country was no longer in play. All classes were considered equal. The samurai, who had already lost their status in this change were also banned from carrying their swords. Soon, many men who had been part of the samurai class started seeking out new professions. A national army was established in 1872 with a conscription requirement that meant that all men, regardless of class, had to serve for three years. Again, not everyone liked these changes. While a lot of citizens saw an increase in their standing, others lost theirs in an effort to equalize, and samurai in particular felt like the rug had really been pulled out from under them.
Holly Fry
Yeah, there's a lot of complexity and nuance to that because there were samurai that wanted the shogunate system changed and eradicated. But it wasn't like they were like, and we'll get rid of all of it. Like they. There's, there's more nuance to it.
Tracy V. Wilson
I feel like we have talked about the transition from the samurai class to an army before, and I could not tell you which episode that was in.
Holly Fry
I don't know either. But another massive reform came in the form of taxation. So taxation was not a new concept in Japan. But. But as we referenced in the passage that Tracy read earlier, prior to Meiji's term as emperor, most of those taxes were paid in rice by the landowners who grew it. Taxation on other items was paid in cash. But an estimated 90% of the people of Japan were involved in growing rice in the 19th century. So the rice tax was the dominant part of the economy. Rice was and still is incredibly culturally significant and even sacred. So this was an important transition, not just from a logistical sense of providing food for the country, but also as a community gesture, providing for one another with a resource that was cultivated and tended by the people. Rice also had become a signifier of success and wealth. A man with a full grain store was considered rich and the plant was used beyond its food possibilities. There are parts of it used to create mats, to make paste, et cetera. So people were all in on this whole system that for a very long time had been about how much rice do you have and how much rice do we pay so that everyone in the country eats? And that was all changing.
Tracy V. Wilson
The land tax reform law of 1873 changed this entire system by moving it to a cash based system with tax rates based on land holdings. The intention was that this new system would get rid of inconsistencies that had been part of the feudal system with different regions having completely different rates and different collection practices. And it was also intended to once again modernize the country. Everyone in the developed world used cash and to make deals with other countries. Rice had to be sold or converted. But. But with cash taxation, money was going directly into the government's holdings and that could be leveraged for national growth and development projects. Unfortunately, this tax was really difficult for the farmers of Japan. And although it was revised to try to help the situation, agricultural communities really continued to struggle.
Holly Fry
Yeah, if you're using one currency and that has been your currency and you are essentially making that currency, and then people go, no, no, we need different currency that you don't necessarily have on hand and have not built up any kind of store of that's a really difficult shift.
Tracy V. Wilson
And we've talked about that shift in other parts of the world too, when people who didn't generally have access to currency were suddenly expected to pay things in currency.
Holly Fry
Yeah, it's like if tomorrow everyone said in the U.S. by the way, we're only accepting pudding as payment. Like you can get a hold of pudding. But it would just be such an odd and different way of handling it that it would be very, very difficult even if you had access to pudding. I know that's a weird comparison, but that's. That's the best I can do at the moment. So a cabinet style of government was also adopted under Meiji in 1885. This was not the first reorganization of government under Meiji's rule, but it became a significant and more lasting system designed to get rid of many of the inefficiencies of prior structures. So the cabinet established the role of prime minister who reports directly to the emperor, and multiple ministers of state who report to the prime minister. This government was further refined in the Meiji constitution, which was created in 1889. And that new constitution called for the establishment of a bicameral parliament. In addition to the prime minister and cabinet of ministers. It also gave command of the country's military forces to the Emperor. They had not really had huge military forces before this. They were being built up. In 1891, the bicameral legislature called for in the constitution known as the Diet, was officially established. The House of Peers. The upper house consisted of officials who were appointed to their positions, while the lower House of Representatives was made up of elected officials.
Tracy V. Wilson
In addition to all of these and other reforms, Emperor Meiji, using the national army that was established early in his time, made Japan a significant military presence on the world stage. The first major example of this was the first Sino Japanese War, which started in 1894. China had long had a presence in Korea, and Korea was not part of China, but was subordinate to this larger nation. And Korea was made dependent on China in a lot of ways for centuries. But as Japan westernized, it also started to take a more active interest in Korean resources. As Japan industrialized, its leaders started to realize they could get things like coal and iron from Korea, which was nearby rather than from farther away resources. So from Japan's perspective, Korea offered a lot of economic possibility, just as the United States had kind of forced Japan's hand in the mid-1800s move to open Japan's ports to North American trade. Japan made a similar move in Korea. And Japan also urged Korea to kind of get out from under China's shadow when it came to relationships with other countries, specifically its relationship with Japan.
Holly Fry
The very abbreviated version of what happened next is that Japan's involvement in Korea's status led to a division within Korea, and China supported the groups that wanted Japan to mind its business. In 1884, this led to an attempted coup in Korea known as the Gapson Coup, with China stepping in to stop it and ensure the safety of the Korean monarch. The conflict did not escalate to war because China and Japan signed an agreement that they would both get their troops out of Korea. But 10 years later, the leader of that 1884 coup, Kim OK Kyun, who was still in support of a Korean relationship with Japan, was assassinated, quartered and his body was publicly displayed to deter anyone else from joining the pro Japan movement within Korea. Soon, China had moved troops into Korea again to quell rebellions that sprang up in the wake of this assassination. And Japan, noting that this was a violation of their 1884 agreement, sent its own troops in response. The war ran from August 1894 to March 1895, and in that time Japanese forces had bested the Chinese forces at sea and had invaded China on land. Chinese leadership finally asked for an end to the war and in the Treaty of Shimonoseki, gave Korea its independence from China, ceded Taiwan and other territory to Japan, opened its ports to Japanese trade and agreed to pay a steep indemnity to Japan.
Tracy V. Wilson
But after another decade, Japan's interest in Korea once again led to war, this time with Russia. There's another parallel here as well. Russia had moved into Manchuria following the lease of the modern day port of Lushun, China, which was called Port Arthur at the time. Japan was not pleased with this and Russia eventually agreed to withdraw military forces from Manchuria after Japan made it clear that their presence there was perceived as a problem. But Russia did not withdraw troops, so Japan launched a surprise attack of port Arthur on February 8, 1904. This started an 18 month conflict that overlapped with the 1905 revolution in Russia, leaving that country stretched really thin, not in a good position to engage with Japan. Eventually, President Theodore Roosevelt got involved to negotiate a treaty. That agreement, the Treaty of Portsmouth, was signed on September 5th of 1905 and Roosevelt would later receive a Nobel Peace Prize for this effort.
Holly Fry
Emperor Meiji's government was not done with plans for Korea, though. The result of the Russo Japanese War was that Japan got control over the China Sea, which gave the country total access to Korea. In 1910, Japan began colonial rule of Korea after the signing of The Japan Korea Annexation Treaty. This treaty, which was controversial then and has continued to be controversial since even after it has been revoked, begins with a proclamation that makes it sound like Korea is a big mess and that Japan is somehow doing the country a favor by stepping in. It's a lot to read, but I want to include the whole thing because it's. The language is really, really, to me, kind of startling. Quote. Notwithstanding the earnest and laborious work of reforms in the administration of Korea, in which the governments of Japan and Korea have been engaged for more than four years since the conclusion of the agreement of 1905, the existing system of government in that country has not proved entirely equal to the duty of preserving public order and tranquility. And in addition, the spirit of suspicion and misgiving dominates the whole peninsula. In order to maintain peace and stability in Korea, to promote the prosperity and welfare of Koreans, and at the same time, to ensure the safety and repose of foreign residents, it has been made abundantly clear that fundamental changes in the actual regime of government are absolutely essential. The governments of Japan and Korea, being convinced of the urgent necessity of introducing reforms responsive to the requirements of the situation and of furnishing sufficient guarantee for the future, have, with the approval of His Majesty the Emperor of Japan and His Majesty the Emperor of Korea, concluded through their plenipotentiaries, a treaty providing for complete annexation of Korea to the Empire of Japan. By virtue of that important act which shall take effect on its promulgation on August 29, 1910, the Imperial Government of Japan shall undertake the entire government and administration of Korea.
Tracy V. Wilson
The first article of the treaty states, quote, his Majesty the Emperor of Korea makes the complete and permanent session to His Majesty the Emperor of Japan of all rights of sovereignty over the whole of Korea. And then the rest lays out various ways that the Emperor of Japan will govern Korea. There's also one article that reads, quote, the government of Japan will, so far as circumstances permit, employ in the public service of Japan and Korea those Koreans who accept the new regime loyally and in good faith and who are duly qualified for such service. There is obviously a whole history with Japan and Korea, much of it deeply upsetting. Yeah, following this.
Holly Fry
Yes.
Tracy V. Wilson
And in some cases before this, too. But like, following this especially.
Holly Fry
Yeah. That whole idea of loyalty is going to come up here in a moment, and we're going to get to the shrine soon. But first we will hear from the sponsors that keep the show going.
T-Mobile Advertiser
Breaking news. T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off at the $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device ineligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card is no cash access and expires and 6 months.
Dennis Black
Ever notice your dog slowing down and having health issues and wonder what can I do to make them better? Well, my friend, add rough greens to your dog's food for 90 days and I guarantee you'll see changes that will amaze you. Greetings naturopathic doctor Dennis Black, inventor of Ruff Greens here, and I invite you to give your pup the Ruff Greens 90 day challenge. In the first 30 days, you'll see shinier coats and increased energy. By day 60, your dog will have a stronger immune system, less shedding, improved joint function, all due to the live nutrients that you've added to their diet. And at 90 days, better digestion, reduced inflammation, improved heart health and you may even have reduced their cancer risk. Fetch your dog a free Jumpstart trial bag today. Go to try roughgreens.com use promo code Try rough. That's T R Y R U F F. Go to try rough roughgreens.com use promo code try rough. You just cover the shipping. You don't have to change your dog's food to improve your dog's health. Just add a scoop of rough greens.
Podcast Host
I found out I was related to.
Sarah Jessica Parker
The guy that I was dating.
Holly Fry
I don't feel emotions correctly. I am talking to a felon right now and I cannot decide if I like him or not.
Podcast Host
Those were some callers from my call in Podcast Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take real phone calls from anonymous strangers all over the world as a a fake gecko therapist and try to dig into their brains and learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's pretty interesting if you give it a shot. Matter of fact, here's a few more examples of the kinds of calls we get on this show.
Holly Fry
I live with my boyfriend and I found his piss jar in our apartment. I collect my roommates toenails and fingernails. I have very overbearing parents. Even at the age of 29, they.
Talkspace Advertiser
Won'T let me move out of their house.
Podcast Host
So if you want an excuse to get out of your own head and see what's going on in someone else's head. Search for therapy gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. It's the one with the green guy on it.
Kristen Davis
Hi, I'm Kristen Davis, host of the podcast Are you a Charlotte? What we have all been waiting for. Sarah Jessica Parker is here and she is sharing stories from the very beginning. Like the time she forgot we filmed the pilot episode.
Sarah Jessica Parker
I remember some things about shooting the pilot.
Holly Fry
Right.
Kristen Davis
I have some memories I can fill in.
Sarah Jessica Parker
And you're going to fill me in.
Kristen Davis
Yes. But then you forgot about it in the very long time they took the picture.
Sarah Jessica Parker
Forgot about it.
Kristen Davis
And she reveals what she thought when she read the script for Sex and the City the very first time.
Sarah Jessica Parker
He said he wrote this like I was in his head in some way, which I I found really interesting.
Kristen Davis
And does she think Carrie is too good for Mr. Big?
Sarah Jessica Parker
She had inexplicable feelings. It is the human being that can't explain to her friends why somebody that might be beneath her is dictating the hunt.
Kristen Davis
You can't miss this. Listen to Are you a Charlotte? On the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcast, or wherever you get your podcast.
Holly Fry
Foreign While the Meiji Restoration began with a sort of promise of equality for all, as it evolved in the 45 years of the emperor's reign, the focus started to become one of nationalist pride and the necessity of devotion to the emperor. This shift had started with the reforms of education and taxation that sought to make the people of the country more prepared for a new era engaging with the rest of the world. But even in those early reforms, it also included a lot of requirements of loyalty to the emperor. And as Japan fought and won in military conflicts with major global powers, that sense of nationalism really crept in.
Tracy V. Wilson
Emperor Meiji died in Tokyo on July 30, 1912. His consort, Empress Shoken, died two years after that. They were entombed outside of Kyoto, but the Diet, through a resolution, established a plan to memorialize Meiji and his empress and to enshrine their kami, which is sort of like their spiritual essence, in Tokyo. The site was chosen because it was at the time a park that featured an iris garden that the couple really loved. This park was built on land that had been part of a daimyo's holdings in the era prior to the Meiji governmental restructuring, and it was taken by the government in Meiji's time to be turned into the Yoyogi Imperial Garden. It was at Meiji's order that the iris garden be planted in the park to delight Empress Shoken because irises were her favorite flower.
Holly Fry
Emperor Meiji and Empress Shoken are important figures because they were the first modern imperial rulers of Japan. But as we've mentioned, Meiji was not operating as the final word in Japan's government, or even always as the primary decision maker in the changes that the country underwent during his time. But he represents the moment of modernization and a new age of Japanese identity. And though many of the reforms enacted during his reign had really problematic consequences later on, including some of the issues with Korea that Tracy and I referenced just a moment ago, he was still recognized as ushering in a lot of significant change and bringing Japan out of isolationist thinking and into the global community.
Tracy V. Wilson
Meiji Jigu is a Shinto shrine, which makes sense as Shinto was made the state religion during the Meiji reign. We would never in any way consider ourselves experts on Shinto. So as an explainer, we are quoting from the Meiji Jingu website quote Shinto is Japan's ancient original religion, and it is deeply rooted in the way of Japanese life. Shinto has no founder, no holy book, and not even the concept of religious conversion. But Shinto places value in harmony with nature and virtues such as magokoro, sincere heart. In Shinto, something divine is regarded as kami, divine spirit, and it is believed that there is an unlimited number of kami. Kami can be found in mythology, in nature, and in human beings. From ancient times, Japanese have felt awe and gratitude towards such kami and enshrined them to Shinto shrines. Shinto is such a part of Japanese culture that it almost transcends the idea of religion and becomes a more cultural practice. Writing for the Yale Forum for Religion and Ecology, Rosemary Bernard noted it is impossible to consider the topic of Shinto and ecology without making reference to the broader issue of Japanese cultural attitudes to the natural environment. This is because what one might describe as Shinto beliefs are often values that are entrenched in Japanese folk culture in general and which find expression in other areas beyond religion, from sociopolitical organization to aesthetics, and so on.
Holly Fry
So the setup of the park and the shrine is really incredible for a number of reasons. So for one, it offers this almost surreal, complete sense of isolation and serenity. Even though it is right in the middle of the city, just steps from Harajuku Station, it's about a 10 minute walk from the station to the entrance to the park. Once you enter the park area, which is far larger than the original park, it's about 173 acres in size. You are completely surrounded by trees as you make your way to the shrine's torii gates which separate the secular part of the grounds from the sacred section. And before you pass through the final gate, you pass through a font called the Temizuya, where you wash your hands and rinse your mouth with water to be purified.
Tracy V. Wilson
The trees at the shrine have their own story because the Meiji Jingu Shrine is surrounded by a man made forest. And the trees that make up that forest were donated by the people of Japan from all over the country with an estimated 245 species represented. Holly saw several write ups that said there were a hundred thousand trees. But a 2015 book on Shinto shrines written by Joseph Kelly and John Duggill gave the number of trees as 170,000. So it may be that smaller number was more of the starting point when the shrine was completed in 1920. When you look at photos of the site from when it was first dedicated, you can see how much this forest has grown. In old aerial photos, you can clearly see all the buildings with just the trees planted around them. But in photos today, it is just a mass of green foliage with small glimpses of the structures peeking through.
Holly Fry
The shrine was designed by one of Japan's famous architects, Ito Chuta, in a traditional Shinto style, and work began on the structure in 1915. The main materials used were Japanese cypress and copper, and the site is really a full complex. In addition to the main shrine, there's also an amulet office where visitors can purchase omamori to bring good fortune. There's a museum that includes various treasures related to the shrine and to Emperor Meiji. And a secondary annex of the museum. There is also a sacred music hall known as the Kaguraden. There is a cafe and a martial arts dojo. Not all of these buildings of course, were original to the site. In fact, none of the current buildings are from the original 1920 opening.
Tracy V. Wilson
During World War II, almost all of the buildings at Meiji Jingu burned in air raids. Surprisingly, the forest survived though. In 1958, after a public fundraising effort generated enough money to rebuild, the shrine was reconstructed using the original plan.
Holly Fry
There was also a lot of other stuff going on in Japan in the time between World War II and 1958 when this rebuilt. But at this point I just wanted to focus on the shrine. It is very, very easy to find photos of the Meiji Jingu Shrine online and in books because it is very beautiful, it attracts a lot of tourists. In addition to People visiting for their own spiritual reasons. But there are no photographs allowed beyond the outer worship hall. So if you're in the inner worship hall praying, there are no photographs in there.
Tracy V. Wilson
So this shrine is very easy to visit. The shrine grounds are free to enter and are open every day from sunrise to sunset. Some of the buildings, like the museum, have days when they're closed. The inner garden where the Empress's irises were planted has an entry fee of 500 yen that goes toward upkeep. Visitors to the main shrine can make a small offering of a coin, bow twice, clap their hands twice, and bow again to show reverence. You can also purchase votive tablets called Emma for 500 yen and write wishes and hopes and just gratitude on them. You can hang them around a camphor tree at the main shrine. There's also a letter version of this ritual in which you can write your sentiment onto it and then tuck money into the letter to place it in an offering box.
Holly Fry
These offerings are given each morning by the people of the shrine to the spirits. It's quite lovely. I really found it a very moving experience. But that is, you know, a very abbreviated version of the Meiji period and the shrine. It's kind of interesting because when you're at the shrine, you don't get all of. Unless you go in the museum, you're not getting all of the information about Emperor Meiji. Presumably, to people of Japan, the connection is obvious, but to tourists, I feel like they may not always understand exactly like, what is going on and why those people were chosen to have a shrine built to memorialize them. So if you go to Japan, highly recommend it.
Tracy V. Wilson
Do you have listener mail for us?
Holly Fry
I do, I do. Because I've been gone. My listener mail is a little bit behind recent episodes episodes. But we'll get caught up. But I wanted to read this because I loved it and I really love pet pictures in it. This is from our listener, Anita, who writes. Dear Tracy and Holly, thank you so much for bringing such wonderful history vignettes to life with your delightful personalities, thoughtful reflections and contextualization and humor. I've been listening on and off for about 10 years and always enjoy hearing your voices and learning new things. I'm writing to tell you about several books I'm reading connected to your topic. First, I was completely floored by your recent show about the Lost Cause. I had never known that this take on the Civil War was a concerted effort to reframe reconstruction and motivations for the war, etc. I am from South Carolina and distinctly remember being taught in middle school in the 1990s that slavery was not in fact the reason for the Civil War, and that the teacher expected us to put states rights as the top motivator on our test. I also clearly remember the textbooks highlighting the vocabulary for carpetbaggers and scalawags in the description of Northerners coming to the south during Reconstruction to take advantage of poor Southerners. I think on some level I always knew that people from other states got different versions of history, but your thorough treatment of the Lost Cause was truly the first time this all came together for me. Y' all suggested books to read that treated the Civil War and Reconstruction with richer perspectives. I can't recall if you specifically recommended this book, but I was inspired to start reading A People's History of the United States by Howard Zinn to get a fresh take on US History. I also have been enjoying Baking in the American south by Ann Byrne. The book is beautifully photographed and the stories behind the recipes are enchanting and informative about their history and local origin. I truly enjoyed the episode where you interviewed Ann Byrne and find the book equally delightful. The chocolate chip cookie recipe is amazing and someday I will master cornbread if I can ever remember not to use 1% milk instead of whole or buttermilk. Just as an aside, I can't get enough of Anne Byrne. I love her so much and that book is spectacular. I know I've said it before, but it bears, it bears repeating. I'm now Anita says on the episode about Kurt Vonnegut, which is quite timely because I just finished Cat's Cradle. She's just tied to our our stories in her reading as Pet Tax. I'm attaching photos of my rescue pup Juno, an Australian cattle dog mix who loves to eat grits and herd my daughters around the house. Thank you again. I love the show. Okay, I'm obsessed with Juno. I'm obsessed with this dog. This dog is so stinking cute. I can't, I can't. I can't function in the face of this cute, cute puppy face. It's got one of those faces. He's a black and tan coat. He has these adorable stand up ears. The eyes are gorgeous. Juno, you're a gem. We can just tell. I love it. I love it. Although now I realize that Anita did not specify whether Juno was boy or a girl. So I, I called, I called Juno him. I don't know. Juno, you're beautiful though. Telling you that dog weaponized cute. It's the very best. If you would like to write to us. Send us pictures of your painfully adorable pets. And remember, I like them all. So if you got pet spiders, send them my way. You can do that@history podcastheartradio.com I don't know if Tracy wants pictures of spiders. Maybe put spiders in all caps on any emails that might might include them so she can make that choice. I'll be looking at them. You can also subscribe to the show on the iHeartRadio app or wherever it is you listen to your favorite show.
Tracy V. Wilson
Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.
Holly Fry
A lot of times, big economic forces show up in our lives in small ways. Four days a week I would buy two cups of banana pudding, but the.
Tracy V. Wilson
Price has gone up, so now I only buy one.
Podcast Host
Small but important ways from tech billionaires to the bond market to yeah, banana pudding. If it's happening in business, our new podcast is on it. I'm Max Chapkin.
Holly Fry
And I'm Stacey Vanek Smith. So listen to everybody's business on the.
Kristen Davis
Iheartradio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. This week on Dear Chelsea with me, Chelsea Handler. Ed Helms is here.
Tracy V. Wilson
I, of course, was drawn to the LSD story.
Podcast Host
This was all under official government activity. They built a apartment that had a glass mirror where he could sit there and watch. And then they would drug these customers and he was just sort of taking notes and God knows what else behind this double mirror. And this was all in the name of science.
Kristen Davis
This just sounds like a guy off behind a wall.
Holly Fry
It does.
Kristen Davis
Listen to Dear Chelsea on the iHeartRadio.
Sarah Jessica Parker
App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Podcast Host
I found out that was related to.
Sarah Jessica Parker
The guy that I was dating.
Holly Fry
I don't feel emotions correctly. I collect my roommates, toenails and fingernails.
Podcast Host
Those were some callers from my call in Podcast Therapy Gecko. It's a show where I take phone calls from anonymous strangers as a a fake gecko therapist and try to learn a little bit about their lives. I know that's a weird concept, but I promise it's very interesting. Check it out for yourself by searching for Therapy gecko on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
Holly Fry
I want you to ask yourself right now, how am I actually doing? Because it's a question that we rarely ask ourselves. All of May is actually meant to Health Awareness Month and on the psychology of your 20s. We are taking a vulnerable look at why mental health is so hard to talk about. Prepare for our conversations to go deep.
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I spent the majority of my teenage.
Holly Fry
Years and my twenties just feeling absolutely terrified.
Tracy V. Wilson
I had a panic attack on a.
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Conference call knowing that she had six months to live. I was no longer pretending that this was my best friend.
Holly Fry
So this Mental Health Awareness Month, take that extra bit of care of your well being. Listen to the psychology of your 20s on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.
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You're listening to an iHeart podcast.
Stuff You Missed in History Class: Emperor Meiji and the Meiji Jingu Shrine
Episode Release Date: May 19, 2025
Hosts: Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts
In this episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class, hosts Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson delve into the transformative era of Japan's history under Emperor Meiji and explore the significance of the Meiji Jingu Shrine. Holly shares her personal experience visiting the shrine during a trip to Japan, which serves as a gateway to uncovering the profound changes that shaped modern Japan.
Holly Fry [03:00]:
"I did very little planning for this trip, so I was like, whatever y's go with my husband and best friend, and we let them pick the itinerary, which was actually great. And we went to a lot of cool places... one of the things was visiting the Meiji Jingu Shrine."
Emperor Meiji, born Mutsuhito on November 3, 1852, ascended to the throne in 1867 at the age of 14 after the death of his father, Emperor Kome. His reign marked a pivotal shift from the feudal Tokugawa Shogunate to a modernized, centralized government, a period known as the Meiji Restoration.
Tracy V. Wilson [06:00]:
"Meiji favored modernization and made a lot of changes to Japan's governmental organization. Though he was Emperor from the time his father died, it wasn't until 1868 that the role of Emperor was actually seen as head of the country."
The Meiji Restoration of 1868 dismantled the Tokugawa Shogunate, reinstating the Emperor as the central figure of power. This political upheaval signaled Japan's commitment to adopting Western technologies and organizational structures to compete on the global stage.
Holly Fry [07:48]:
"This important change and the taking of the name Meiji by the Emperor is known as the Meiji Restoration, signaling a lot more massive changes ahead."
In 1868, Emperor Meiji promulgated the Charter Oath, a five-article document crafted by Meiji oligarchs—young samurai who had been instrumental in overthrowing the Shogunate. The oath outlined the principles of deliberative assemblies, class unity, individual freedom to pursue one's calling, the abolition of evil customs, and the pursuit of knowledge worldwide.
Tracy V. Wilson [11:02]:
"The Charter Oath promised freedoms to the people but was carefully crafted to allow governmental restrictions. For instance, 'evil customs of the past' were not clearly defined, providing leeway for the government to enforce new laws."
The Meiji government abolished the feudal system in 1871, replacing the han (feudal domains) with a prefecture system centralized under the national government. Former feudal lords were often appointed as governors, ensuring continuity and mitigating resistance to the new order.
Holly Fry [13:10]:
"The feudal system was completely abolished, transforming local daimyo rule into a centralized prefecture system, though many former lords became governors under this new structure."
One of Meiji's significant reforms was the establishment of a national education system in 1872, making education universal and standardized across Japan. Additionally, the 1873 land tax reform transitioned taxation from rice-based to a cash-based system, aligning Japan's economy with Western practices but imposing hardships on farmers.
Tracy V. Wilson [18:21]:
"The land tax reform moved taxation to a cash-based system with rates based on land holdings, intended to modernize the economy but made life difficult for farmers accustomed to rice taxation."
Under Emperor Meiji, Japan emerged as a formidable military power. The First Sino-Japanese War (1894-1895) and the Russo-Japanese War (1904-1905) were pivotal conflicts that extended Japan's influence in East Asia, particularly over Korea and Manchuria. These military victories fueled a surge of nationalist pride and solidified Japan's status on the world stage.
Tracy V. Wilson [25:26]:
"The Russo-Japanese War resulted in Japan gaining control over the China Sea, giving them total access to Korea, and eventually leading to the annexation of Korea in 1910."
The Treaty of Shimonoseki in 1895 ended the First Sino-Japanese War, granting Japan control over Taiwan and Korea. Despite initial agreements to respect Korea's autonomy, Japan's imperial ambitions culminated in the Japan-Korea Annexation Treaty of 1910, effectively making Korea a Japanese colony. This annexation remains a deeply controversial and painful chapter in Korean history.
Holly Fry [28:14]:
"The Japan-Korea Annexation Treaty proclaimed, 'the Imperial Government of Japan shall undertake the entire government and administration of Korea,' marking the start of colonial rule that has left lasting scars."
While the early Meiji reforms emphasized modernization and equality, over time, the focus shifted towards nationalist pride and loyalty to the Emperor. This transformation laid the groundwork for Japan's militaristic and imperialist policies in the early 20th century.
Holly Fry [35:09]:
"As Japan fought and won military conflicts, the sense of nationalism crept in, emphasizing the necessity of devotion to the Emperor and fostering a unified national identity."
Emperor Meiji and his consort, Empress Shoken, were enshrined at the Meiji Jingu Shrine in Tokyo after their deaths. Established in 1920, the shrine serves as a spiritual and cultural landmark, embodying the integration of Shinto beliefs with Japan's imperial history.
Tracy V. Wilson [36:57]:
"Meiji Jingu is a Shinto shrine that memorializes Emperor Meiji and Empress Shoken, reflecting their role as the first modern imperial rulers of Japan and their contributions to the nation's transformation."
Designed by renowned architect Ito Chuta, the Meiji Jingu Shrine complex spans approximately 173 acres and is surrounded by a meticulously maintained forest of over 170,000 trees donated from across Japan. The shrine's architecture, primarily using Japanese cypress and copper, exemplifies traditional Shinto style. Despite being destroyed during World War II air raids, the shrine was faithfully reconstructed in 1958 based on the original plans.
Holly Fry [40:15]:
"The shrine was designed in a traditional Shinto style with Japanese cypress and copper. After being destroyed in World War II, it was rebuilt in 1958, preserving the original architectural integrity."
Today, Meiji Jingu Shrine is a serene oasis amidst Tokyo's bustling cityscape. Visitors traverse a lengthy walk through the Yoyogi Imperial Garden, passing through torii gates and engaging in purification rituals at the Temizuya. The shrine offers various facilities, including a museum, a sacred music hall, and opportunities to purchase omamori (amulets) and ema (votive tablets).
Tracy V. Wilson [42:23]:
"Visitors can make small offerings, purchase votive tablets called Emma, and write their wishes and hopes. The shrine grounds are free to enter and open daily from sunrise to sunset."
Emperor Meiji's reign was a period of profound transformation for Japan, steering the nation from isolation to becoming a global power. While his modernization efforts laid the foundation for Japan's economic and military prowess, they also paved the way for complex and often troubling historical developments, particularly in Korea. The Meiji Jingu Shrine stands as a testament to this era, embodying both the reverence for the Emperor and the intricate interplay of tradition and progress.
Holly Fry [37:45]:
"Though many of the reforms during Meiji's reign had problematic consequences later on, he is still recognized for bringing Japan out of isolationist thinking and into the global community."
Notable Quotes:
Tracy V. Wilson [11:02]:
"The Charter Oath promised freedoms to the people but was carefully crafted to allow governmental restrictions."
Holly Fry [28:14]:
"The Japan-Korea Annexation Treaty proclaimed, 'the Imperial Government of Japan shall undertake the entire government and administration of Korea,' marking the start of colonial rule."
Holly Fry [37:45]:
"Though many of the reforms during Meiji's reign had problematic consequences later on, he is still recognized for bringing Japan out of isolationist thinking and into the global community."
This episode offers a comprehensive exploration of Emperor Meiji's impact on Japan's transformation and the enduring legacy of the Meiji Jingu Shrine. Through engaging storytelling and insightful analysis, Holly and Tracy provide listeners with a nuanced understanding of this critical period in Japanese history.