Skyline Drive & Shenandoah National Park

Summary

Summary of "Skyline Drive & Shenandoah National Park" Episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class

Release Date: June 2, 2025
Hosts: Holly Fry and Tracy V. Wilson
Produced by: iHeartPodcasts

---

Introduction & Context

In this episode, Tracy V. Wilson and Holly Fry delve into the rich history of Shenandoah National Park and its iconic Skyline Drive. The discussion is sparked by Tracy's recent visit to Asheville, North Carolina, where she explored the Blue Ridge Parkway and discovered historical displays that intertwine the narratives of Skyline Drive and Shenandoah National Park.

Tracy V. Wilson [02:29]: "So my plan was to have an episode where we talked a little bit about Skyline Drive and then focused the rest of the time on the Blue Ridge Parkway. But during my whole note-taking process, Skyline Drive and Shenandoah National Park evolved into their own entire episode."

---

Early National Parks and Exclusion of Indigenous Peoples

The conversation begins with a historical overview of the United States' national parks, starting with Yellowstone—the first national park established in 1872.

Unknown Speaker [04:34]: "The first national park in the United States was created under the Yellowstone National Park Protection Act, which President Ulysses S. Grant signed into law in 1872."

Tracy emphasizes the Act's role in conserving Yellowstone's natural wonders but also highlights its glaring omission concerning indigenous peoples.

Tracy V. Wilson [06:13]: "This act was ostensibly about conserving and preserving Yellowstone and its natural wonders, but it really didn't make any provisions or exceptions for the indigenous peoples who had been living on, using and acting as stewards of this land since time immemorial."

The hosts discuss how the federal government's portrayal of national parks as untouched wilderness ignored the thousands of years of indigenous stewardship and led to the forcible removal of native populations.

Unknown Speaker [06:41]: "The federal government forcibly removed indigenous peoples who had been living on or using the land in Yellowstone... and publicly presented a fiction that Yellowstone had always been uninhabited and unused."

---

Expansion of National Parks East of the Mississippi

Following Yellowstone, other parks like Yosemite were established, continuing the pattern of excluding indigenous histories.

Unknown Speaker [07:37]: "The creation of these parks generally followed a really similar pattern. They were formed from federal land under legislation that framed it as being conserved and protected for the people."

Tracy notes that most of these lands were acquired through warfare, genocide, and exploitative treaties, further entrenching the displacement of native communities.

Tracy V. Wilson [08:47]: "The United States had obtained this land through warfare, genocide and exploitative treaties with the indigenous peoples."

---

Creation of Shenandoah National Park & Skyline Drive

Land Acquisition Challenges

The focus shifts to the early 20th century efforts to establish national parks east of the Mississippi River, culminating in the creation of Shenandoah National Park and Skyline Drive.

Tracy V. Wilson [10:51]: "Stephen T. Mather, the first director of the National Park Service, advocated for the creation of a park that was closer to some of the major eastern cities."

In 1924, the Southern Appalachian National Park Committee was formed to identify suitable locations, primarily in North Carolina, Tennessee, and Virginia. The committee sought areas that offered stunning mountain scenery, extensive forests, and accessibility via rail and road.

Unknown Speaker [17:31]: "Looking for sites that met these criteria... accessible by rail and road."

The committee recommended the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia for Shenandoah National Park, highlighting the potential of a scenic drive along the mountaintop.

Unknown Speaker [19:13]: "A possible Skyline Drive along the mountaintop following a continuous ridge... Few scenic drives in the world could surpass it."

Road Construction and Skyline Drive Development

The establishment of Skyline Drive was intertwined with the construction of infrastructure to support the park. The project was partially funded by federal relief programs during the Great Depression.

Unknown Speaker [35:43]: "As all of this was going on, the federal government was also building Skyline Drive as the park's Road and Scenic Parkway."

Tracy V. Wilson [37:44]: "The road was built along a mountainside or carved out from the mountainside with soil that was then used to fill in other areas for the road."

Efforts were made to ensure that Skyline Drive blended seamlessly with the natural landscape, utilizing local materials and minimizing environmental impact.

Unknown Speaker [38:14]: "Engineers and landscape architects used techniques that had been refined on roads and parkways in the parks in the West."

Great Depression and Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC) Involvement

The onset of the Great Depression introduced the Civilian Conservation Corps, which played a significant role in developing Shenandoah National Park.

Unknown Speaker [39:03]: "Franklin D. Roosevelt... established the Civilian Conservation Corps... part of the New Deal."

Approximately 4,000 young men worked on projects such as building hiking trails, planting native vegetation, and constructing overlooks and guardrails along Skyline Drive.

Unknown Speaker [40:05]: "CCC workers built hiking trails and fire trails, picnic areas, campgrounds, and other amenities in the park."

Park Opening and Ongoing Challenges

Shenandoah National Park was officially dedicated by President Franklin D. Roosevelt on July 3, 1936.

Unknown Speaker [41:31]: "President Franklin D. Roosevelt formally dedicated Shenandoah National Park on July 3, 1936... to this and succeeding generations of Americans."

However, the creation of the park was fraught with challenges, including the forcible removal of approximately 2,000 people from their ancestral lands.

Tracy V. Wilson [44:43]: "Roughly 2,000 people from 465 families were forcibly relocated for the creation of Shenandoah National Park."

The hosts discuss the Resettlement Administration's efforts to relocate displaced families, many of whom struggled to adapt to new living conditions during the Great Depression.

Unknown Speaker [43:48]: "The goal of this program was to resettle people out of the park and into newly established communities."

Segregation and Desegregation in the Park

Shenandoah National Park also navigated racial segregation policies prevalent at the time. Initially, accommodations were segregated, reflecting the broader societal norms of the 1930s South.

Unknown Speaker [46:07]: "There were black visitors to the park and black motorists on Skyline Drive right from the beginning... but the national park service eventually established segregated accommodations."

By 1939, specific facilities for Black visitors were established, and desegregation efforts began in the late 1940s, completing by 1950.

Unknown Speaker [46:26]: "The national park service eventually established segregated accommodations... Shenandoah Homesteads Project had been established in 1934 and then was taken over by the Resettlement Administration."

Tracy highlights ongoing criticisms regarding the racial demographics of park visitors and staff.

Tracy V. Wilson [46:26]: "There are still criticisms today about park visitors and staff and the National Park Service, more broadly, being disproportionately white."

---

Legacy and Current Status of Shenandoah National Park and Skyline Drive

Today, Skyline Drive spans 105.5 miles and is the sole public road within Shenandoah National Park, which now encompasses nearly 200,000 acres with over 80,000 acres designated as wilderness.

Unknown Speaker [47:57]: "Today, Skyline Drive runs for 105.5 miles, and it's the only public road in Shenandoah National Park."

The park boasts more than 500 miles of hiking trails, including a significant portion of the Appalachian Trail, and continues to be a popular destination for millions of visitors annually.

Tracy V. Wilson [48:44]: "There is an entry fee of $15 per person entering on foot or $30 for private vehicles entering on Skyline Drive."

---

Conclusion

The episode provides a comprehensive look at the establishment of Shenandoah National Park and Skyline Drive, highlighting the complex interplay of conservation efforts, federal policies, economic challenges, and social issues. While celebrating the park's natural beauty and historical significance, the hosts also shed light on the often overlooked narratives of displacement and segregation that underpin its history.

---

Notable Quotes:

• Tracy V. Wilson [06:13]: "This act was ostensibly about conserving and preserving Yellowstone and its natural wonders, but it really didn't make any provisions or exceptions for the indigenous peoples."

• Unknown Speaker [19:13]: "Few scenic drives in the world could surpass it."

• Tracy V. Wilson [46:26]: "There are still criticisms today about park visitors and staff and the National Park Service, more broadly, being disproportionately white."

---

This detailed exploration not only celebrates the natural splendors of Shenandoah National Park and Skyline Drive but also invites listeners to reflect on the nuanced and often painful histories that have shaped America's national landscapes.

Transcript

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This is an iHeart podcast.

[Holly Fry]

Breaking news T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualified unlocked device credit service port in 90 plus days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required card has no cash access and expires in six months.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

If you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright. Rocket Mortgage can help you turn that home equity into cash and that can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kids college tuition or pay off consolidated high interest debt. To learn more just call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states nmlsconsumeraccess.org Number 3030 with Amex Gold you.

[Unknown]

Can make dining out before the big event a big event.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hey, you made it.

[Holly Fry]

It's been so long.

[Unknown]

And earn four times membership rewards points on purchases at restaurants up to $50,000 per year. And if you're running late, no problem.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Oh, we gotta go.

[Unknown]

You get access to card member entrances at select venues so you can make it in time to catch the big win. That's the powerful backing of American Express card number entrance access not limited to Amex Gold card terms apply. Learn [e-mail] withamex with 4imprint, finding the.

Right promo products has never been easier. You get free samples, expert help and art assistance to ensure your logo looks great. 4imprint offers thousands of options to choose from, including summer ready gear, branded apparel, drinkware, outdoor and more. Your order will be packed with care, delivered on time and backed by their 360 degree guarantee. That's for Imprint certainty. Need your order fast. Last4Imprint offer quick turnaround options too. Visit 4imprint.com and see how easy ordering can be. 4Imprint for certain. Welcome to Stuff you Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy V. Wilson.

[Unknown]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I went on a trip to Asheville, North Carolina a couple of weeks ago. That's always been one of my favorite places, but I don't think I had been back there since moving to Massachusetts. Parts of that whole region have only barely started to recover from Hurricane Helene, which weakened to a tropical storm as it moved over Georgia. But it still produced truly devastating destruction in the Southern Appalachian Mountains. But while I was there, I talked to a lot of people who worked in hotels and restaurants and shops and galleries around Asheville, and they were all very anxious for tourism to get back toward its normal levels there. One of the things that I did on this trip was I drove the small stretch of the Blue Ridge Parkway that is open near Asheville. At this point I stopped at the Folk Arts center, which is that one end of that open section. And there was a historical display outside about construction of the Blue Ridge Parkway that made me think, you know, that might be a really good episode. The Blue Ridge Parkway was inspired by another kind of similar scenic drive, which is Skyline Drive in Shenandoah national park, which the Blue Ridge Parkway also connects to. So my plan was to have an episode where we talked a little bit about Skyline Drive and then focused the rest of the time on the Blue Ridge Parkway. But during my whole note taking process, Skyline Drive and Shenandoah national park evolved into their own entire episode. So that's today's episode. If you've been like, Tracy, why are you talking about the Blue Ridge Parkway? That one's actually going to be on Wednesday. This isn't really a two parter. It's more like two episodes that have some interconnectedness. So if you're one of the folks who likes to listen to the two parters together, I think in this case you don't really need to wait like there. There are some points where these two stories touch each other, but this isn't exactly a two part episode.

[Unknown]

So we'll start with a little background on the national parks. The first national park in the United States was created under the Yellowstone National Park Protection act, which President Ulysses S. Grant signed into law in 1872. This act, quote, set apart a certain tract of land lying near the headwaters of the Yellowstone river as a park under this law.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This tract of land was, quote, hereby reserved and withdrawn from settlement, occupancy or sale under the laws of the United States and dedicated and set apart as a public park or pleasuring ground for the benefit and enjoyment of the people and all persons who shall locate or settle upon or occupy the same or any part thereof, and except as hereinafter provided, shall be considered trespassers and removed therefrom.

[Unknown]

This law placed Yellowstone under the control of The Secretary of the Interior, who was directed to create rules and regulations to, quote, provide for the preservation from injury or spoliation of all timber, mineral deposits, natural curiosities or wonders within said park and their retention in their natural condition. Any structures built on the designated land were to be for the accommodation of visitors. Fish and game were to be protected from wanton destruction and from their capture or destruction for the purposes of profit. Under this law, anyone settling on or occupying land in Yellowstone would be considered a trespasser and removed.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This act was ostensibly about conserving and preserving Yellowstone and its natural wonders, but it really didn't make any provisions or exceptions for the indigenous peoples who had been living on, using and acting as stewards of this land since time immemorial. While some tribes and nations were still supposed to have fishing or hunting rights by treaty, later legislation made that explicitly illegal.

[Unknown]

In other words, federal policy and the whole mindset around the national parks framed Yellowstone as an untouched wilderness rather than as a place where people had been living, hunting, gathering and harvesting for thousands of years. The fish, game and plants in the park had been a vital source of food for indigenous peoples. And those protected mineral deposits included sources of obsidian that indigenous people had been using to make tools and projectile points. Yellowstone also holds a deep spiritual significance for a number of indigenous nations and it's considered sacred. The federal government forcibly removed indigenous peoples who had been living on or using the land in Yellowstone, including the Tucadika, to reservations outside the bounds of the park and publicly presented a fiction that Yellowstone had always been uninhabited and unused.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This included a pretty insulting made up story about how indigenous people didn't come to Yellowstone because they were afraid of the geysers. I do want to say I love the national parks. I'm glad that we have them. There are complicated things that I do not like about their history. We'll talk about that a bit more in a second. After the creation of Yellowstone, other national parks followed. That included Yosemite national park in 1890. We talked about Yosemite in a two parter that ran on August 8th and 10th of 2016. And through the 19th and early 20th centuries, the creation of these parks generally followed a really similar pattern. They were formed from federal land under legislation that framed it as being conserved and protected for the people. But the United States had obtained this land through warfare, genocide and exploitive treaties with the indigenous peoples. And then the government forcibly removed those people from the land while maintaining this fiction that the park was protecting something that was pristine and untouched by humanity.

[Unknown]

So we can't really cover the entire history of Indigenous peoples relationships to these parks in one episode. But more than a century would pass before the federal government started to take an approach that was more cooperative and collaborative than when these parks were established. It's also not really clear at this point how the Trump administration will be approaching co stewardship agreements that were signed under the Biden administration.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, I think a lot of those agreements were a step in addressing some of the historical wrongs of these parks. In 1916, the National Park Service act, also known as the Organic act, created the National Park Service. Like the first national parks, the National Park Service was established under the Department of the Interior. In the words of this act, quote, the service thus established shall promote and regulate the use of the federal areas known as national parks, monuments and reservations hereinafter specified by such means and measures as conform to the fundamental purposes of the said parks, monuments and reservations, which purpose is to conserve the scenery and the natural and historic objects and the wildlife therein, and to provide for the enjoyment of the same in such manner and by such means as will leave them unimpaired for the enjoyment of future generations.

[Unknown]

Most of the US Population lived in the eastern half of the country. But with the exception of Mackinac national park, which had been on Mackinac island in Lake Huron from 1875 to 1895, there were no national parks east of the Mississippi river when the National Park Service was founded. That changed with the creation of Acadia national park, originally known as Lafayette National park, in 1919. Acadia is in Maine, so it was closer to people in the eastern US Than the parks in the west were. But it still really wasn't convenient to major cities in the East.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So Stephen T. Mather, first director of the National Park Service, advocated for the creation of a park that was closer to some of the major eastern cities. He convinced Secretary of the Interior Hubert Work to appoint a committee to find a place for a park specifically in the Southern Appalachian Mountains, ideally within an easy drive of Washington, D.C. to that end, the Southern Appalachian National Park Committee was established in 1924. Please don't come at me for how I said Appalachian.

[Unknown]

That same year, Congress passed legislation to authorize and fund the construction and reconstruction of roads, trails and bridges in the national parks, which was becoming more of a necessity as more people had access access to cars. At this point, the good roads movement was well underway, having started in the late 19th century after the development of practical and affordable bicycles. We talked about this more in our episode on Kitty Knox and the bike boom that came out on January 9, 2023. By the 1920s, the good roads movement's focus had shifted more to the needs of cars and motorists rather than bicycles and cyclists. In 1924, when this law was passed, the US had a population of about 114 million people and there were about 16 million cars on the road.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This was also tied to the See America first movement. That slogan was coined in the early 20th century, encouraging people to travel along these newly established roads and the railroads, including going to the national parks to travel and vacation in the United States rather than going to Europe.

[Unknown]

After the passage of this 1924 legislation, the National Park Service worked out a memorandum of agreement with the Bureau of Public Roads, which would later be known as the Federal Highway Administration. This agreement laid out standards for the survey, construction and improvement of roads and trails in the national parks and national monuments. The Bureau of Public Roads provided engineers and technical expertise, while the National Park Service provided landscape architects who focused on designing roadways that had a naturalistic design. The actual road construction was typically done by private firms under contract to the bpr.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So all of this, the roads and this agreement and the See America first movement was part of the creation of Shenandoah national park and Skyline Drive. We'll have more on that after a sponsor break. If you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you Today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright, the value you can tap to fund other life goals. In fact, the average Rocket Mortgage homeowner has about $170,000 in untapped equity available now. Rocket Mortgage can help you understand what home equity is and how to use it wisely for what matters to you. They've made it easier than ever to turn your home equity into cash with Rocket Mortgage. So now the home you worked so hard for can work hard for you in plenty of different ways. Home equity can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kid's college tuition, or pay off and consolidate high interest debt from credit cards. To learn more, just call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states nmlsconsumeraccess.org Number 3030 $178,000 average equity is based on internal Rocket Mortgage servicing date.

[Unknown]

With Amex Gold you can make dining out before the big event a big event.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Hey, you made it.

[Holly Fry]

It's been so long.

[Unknown]

And earn four times membership rewards points on purchases at restaurants up to $50,000 thousand dollars per year and if you're running late, no problem.

[Holly Fry]

Oh, we gotta go.

[Unknown]

You get access to card member entrances at select venues so you can make it in time to catch the big win. That's the powerful backing of American Express card number. Entrance access not limited to AMEX Gold Card terms apply. Learn [e-mail] withamex Time for a Sofa.

Upgrade Introducing Anabe sofas where designer style meets budget friendly prices. Anibay brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anibe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquids simply slide right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space. Today sofas start at just $699 with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free returns. Shop now at washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Holly Fry]

Breaking News T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network switch. Now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to four lines of a virtual prepaid card. Last 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service port in 90 plus days device ineligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card is no cash access and expires in six months.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

In 1924, the Southern Appalachian National Park Committee developed a questionnaire to solicit public feedback about possible locations for a national park. The committee traveled all around the Southern Appalachian Mountains. They mainly looked at sites in North Carolina, Tennessee and Virginia, but some of the members also went to West Virginia, Alabama and Kentucky. Every state that was under consideration was interested in this project due to the potential to bring in tourism dollars and to have federal investments into the roads and other infrastructure that would be needed to support the park. So cities and towns all around hosted all kinds of festivals and whatnot to try to attract Attention the committee was.

[Unknown]

Looking for sites that met these criteria. Quote 1. Mountain scenery with inspiring perspectives and delightful details. 2. Areas sufficiently extensive and adaptable so that annually millions of visitors might enjoy the benefits of outdoor life and communion with nature without the confusion of overcrowding. 3. A substantial part to contain forests, shrubs and flowers and mountain streams with picturesque cascades and waterfalls overhung with foliage, all untouched by the hand of man.

4.

Abundant springs and streams available for camps and fishing. 5. Opportunities for protecting and developing the wildlife of the area and the whole to be a natural museum preserving outstanding features of the Southern Appalachians as they appeared in the early pioneer days. 6. Accessibility by rail and road.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

In their report, the committee wrote that several areas were found that contained topographic features of great scenic value, where waterfalls, cascades, cliffs and mountain peaks with beautiful valleys lying in their midst gave ample assurance that any or all of these areas were possible for development into a national park which would compare favorably with any of the existing national parks in the West. All that has saved these nearby regions from spoliation for so long a time has been their inaccessibility and the difficulty of profitably exploiting the timber wealth that mantles the steep mountain slopes. With rapidly increasing shortage and mounting values of forest products, however, we face the immediate danger that the last remnants of our primeval forest forests will be destroyed, however remote on steep mountainside or hidden away in deep lonely cove they may be.

[Unknown]

Ultimately, the committee recommended the creation of a park in the Blue Ridge Mountains in Virginia. It noted that this site was within about a three hour drive of Washington, D.C. and was within about a day's drive of 40 million people. And it described what it thought would be the park's greatest single feature. Quote a possible skyline drive along the mountaintop following a continuous ridge and looking down westerly on the Shenandoah Valley, some 2,500 to 3,500ft below and also commanding a view of the Piedmont Plain stretching easterly to the Washington Monument, which landmark of our national capital may be seen on a clear day. Few scenic drives in the world could surpass it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

In other words, this recommended park would be a place where people could hike and fish and camp and picnic and learn all about plants and wildlife and get away from the noise and the pollution of the city. And it would also be a scenic drive that you could travel by car.

[Unknown]

The committee also recommended a second location roughly 300 miles south of the first, in the Great Smoky Mountains on the border between North Carolina and Tennessee. The committee thought this site was superior quote because of the height of mountains, depth of valleys, ruggedness of the area, and the unexampled variety of trees, shrubs, and plants. But the smokies also presented some challenges that the land in Virginia did not, including that it was very rugged, with higher elevations, which would make road and park development more difficult. The smokies also seem to be prone to excessive rainfall, something that the committee couldn't really quantify, but thought should be studied more thoroughly.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

When secretary of the interior Hubert work passed these recommendations on to the house committee on the public lands, he said in part, quote, recognizing the tremendous popularity and value of the national park system in its service to our people, it is my opinion that a definite policy should be adopted by the government for the creation of additional national parks in the eastern section for the public use and general welfare of its millions of inhabitants. Most of these live in densely populated communities and cannot afford the time or the money required to visit the west western national parks. The east contributes its share to the upkeep and maintenance of the existing national park system, and for that reason, too, should be entitled to recognition.

[Unknown]

There were immediate calls for public support for this proposed park. For example, the committee's report to secretary work was printed in national parks and conservation magazine alongside a notice to the women of America by Mrs. John Dickinson Sherman, president of the general federation of women's club clubs. It said in part, the general federation of women's clubs is a service organization. The women of America constitute the largest body for service in the world, and there are none more devoted. I appeal not to general federation women only, but to the women of America to support wholeheartedly and enthusiastically the choice of secretary works committee. Our national park system is a service system, or it is nothing.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I am glad you read that part, because the last sentence makes me cry.

[Unknown]

We've had good fortune in handing off the cry bits to the other person lately.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

We sure have. So congress passed legislation authorizing the creation of both of the recommended parks, which president Calvin coolidge signed into law on May 22, 1926. The site in Virginia would become Shenandoah national park, and the site in north Carolina and Tennessee would become great smoky mountains national park. Three days after that, Coolidge also signed legislation approving the establishment of mammoth cave national park.

[Unknown]

There was a big difference between these three parks and the ones that had been established in the west. Yellowstone, Yosemite and others had been created from land that the federal government already purportedly owned. So the government was setting aside land to serve as a park without having to make arrangements or spend the money to acquire it. But the land for these three parks was privately owned, mostly by small individual landowners. It would require a lot of time, money and work to buy all of that land and then transition it into a park.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The Southern Appalachian National Park Committee had referenced this situation in its report, saying, quote, we have not attempted to estimate the cost of acquiring this area, as we are not sure that it falls within the scope of our committee's work park. We suggest, however, that a spirit of constructive cooperation on the part of the state of Virginia and among some of the large landowners of this region with whom we have been in touch promises reasonable prices and perhaps a number of donations. We suggest that if Congress thinks favorable of this proposed park site, a commission be appointed to handle the purchase and to solicit contributions and to arrange condemnation proceedings. If the state of Virginia deems it wise, the creation of such a park may well be made contingent on a limited total land cost.

[Unknown]

We talked about the process of acquiring land for Mammoth Cave national park in our episode on the Kentucky Cave wars, which came out on August 19, 2024. The creation of the Great Smoky Mountains national park is also its own story. For Shenandoah national park and Skyline Drive, it was a whole process. The plan was for the Commonwealth of Virginia to purchase the land and then donate that land to the federal government. Virginia didn't actually have a budget to buy that land, though the money would, at least in theory, be coming from donations.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So the land that would become Shenandoah national park is the ancestral and traditional homeland of multiple indigenous nations and peoples. This includes speakers of at least three different language Siouan, Iroquoian, and Algonquian. It's an incredibly diverse area, but by the time the park was being proposed, most of the region's indigenous peoples had been forced out through colonization, warfare and removals. This process of displacement and erasure was still going on into the 20th century, including through the passage of a racial purity act in Virginia in 1924 that defined indigenous people with any amount of African ancestry as, quote, colored. We talk about this More in our two part episode on Loving versus Virginia, which was the 1967 Supreme Court decision that found laws banning interracial marriage to be unconstitutional. That two parter came out on April 15th and 17th, 2013.

[Unknown]

So by the time Congress authorized the creation of Shenandoah national park, most of the people living in these mountains and valleys were white. They were mainly subsistence farmers who lived primarily on small tracts of land that had some planted crops, some pasture for their animals, and some forest for timber and other resources. There were some people who had land they were willing to sell, but for the most part it was land they didn't have some other kind of use for. Otherwise, this was often land that people had been living and working for generations and they didn't want to leave it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So two overlapping, interconnected projects started at this point. One was securing the land and the right of way that would be necessary to build that possible skyline drive along the mountaintop that the committee had described as the possible greatest single feature of this national park. That road was intended to travel all the way from one end of the park to the other, where it would provide access to campgrounds and picnic areas and other amenities, while also functioning as a scenic road for sightseeing. The construction of this road would be paid for largely through federal funding, and then the other project was to survey and acquire all the land for the rest of the park, and that was meant to be funded by private donations.

[Unknown]

We will talk about that more after we pause for a sponsor break.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

If you own a home, here's an interesting fact for you today. American homeowners are sitting on a record amount of home equity. That's the part of your home you own outright, the value you can tap to fund other life goals. In fact, the average Rocket Mortgage homeowner has about $170,000 in untapped equity available now. Rocket Mortgage can help you understand what home equity is and how to use it wisely for what matters to you. They've made it easier than ever to turn your home equity into cash with Rocket Mortgage. So now the home you worked so hard for can work hard for you in plenty of different ways. Home equity can help you fund a home renovation, pay for your kid's college tuition, or pay off and consolidate high interest debt from credit cards. To learn more, just call 804Rocket or visit Rocket.com today. Rocket Mortgage LLC licensed in 50 states nmlsconsumeraccess.org 3030 $178,000 average equity is based on internal Rocket Mortgage servicing date.

[Unknown]

You don't want vacation to end, but with Amex Platinum you earn 5 times Membership Rewards points on prepaid whole hotels and more booked through amextravel.com so you're already planning the next one. Book your room with fine hotels and resorts through Amex Travel and get an upgrade when available, plus guaranteed 4pm checkout so you have time to check out the pool before flying off to what's next. That's the powerful backing of American Express Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] withamiccst1022318 Time for a Sofa.

Upgrade Introducing Anabe Sofa where designer style meets budget friendly prices. Anime brings you the ultimate in furniture innovation with a modular design that allows you to rearrange your space effortlessly. Perfect for both small and large spaces, Anabe is the only machine washable sofa inside and out. Say goodbye to stains and messes with liquid and stain resistant fabrics that make cleaning easy. Liquids simply slide right off. Designed for custom comfort, our high resilience foam lets you choose between a sink in feel or a supportive memory foam blend. Plus our pet friendly stain resistant fabrics ensure your sofa stays beautiful for years. Don't compromise quality for price. Visit washablesofas.com to upgrade your living space. Today sofas start at just $699 with no risk returns and a 30 day money back guarantee. Get up to 60% off plus free shipping and free return. Shop now at washablesofas.com offers are subject to change and certain restrictions may apply.

[Holly Fry]

Breaking News T Mobile Network outperforms expectations in all sectors because T Mobile helps keep you connected from the heart of Portland to right where you are on America's largest 5G network. Switch now keep your phone and T Mobile will pay it off up to $800 per line via prepaid card. Visit your local T Mobile location or learn more@t mobile.com KeepAndSwitch up to 4 lines via virtual prepaid card. Allow 15 days qualifying unlock device, credit service report in 90 days device and eligible carrier and timely redemption required. Card is no cash access and expires in six.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

When Congress passed legislation authorizing the establishment of Shenandoah national park, it described a 521,000 acre park with that land purchased through donations and private funds, not from the federal budget. An organization called the Shenandoah Valley National park association had already been established before this to try to raise funds, and it had set an initial goal of $2.5 million. By April of 1926, it had raised more than $1.2 million in pledges, and that had been enough to be able to get that congressional authorization for the park. Once Congress had passed the legislation, Virginia Governor Harry F. Byrd established the Conserv Development Commission to survey, appraise and actually purchase the necessary land.

[Unknown]

It became clear almost immediately that the $2.5 million fundraising goal was not going to be enough. As we said earlier, a lot of people didn't want to sell their land or they didn't want to sell it as cheaply as those initial estimates had assumed. Property values also started to increase because of the proposed park, as 521,000 acres started to seem impossible. William E. Carson, chair of the Conservation and Development Commission, advocated for the size of the park to be reduced.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This was the first in a series of size reductions for the park in progress. But it was not enough to bridge the gap between the estimates and the reality. It also didn't address the fact that the state needed to acquire land from hundreds of individual landowners, some of whom were adamantly opposed to selling. Like sometimes appraisers showed up at somebody's home and they were greeted with a shotgun. Even in the best circumstances, this would have been immensely time and labor intensive. But the circumstances really just seem to be getting more and more contentious.

[Unknown]

So in 1928, Virginia passed a blanket condemnation act which allowed the state to file one condemnation notice in each of the counties where the park was going to be and then condemn all of the applicable land and purchase it by eminent domain. The thought process behind this law went back to the aftermath of the Spanish American War when the US Used a similar tactic to compensate the Vatican for church owned land that residents of the Philippines had settled on during and after the war. Carson's brother had served on the Supreme Court of the Philippines and was very familiar with this strategy.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Of course, this blanket condemnation led to pushback and court cases, but it did allow the state to start acquiring the necessary land a little more quickly. People were paid for their land, but there were a lot of disparities in terms of how much they were paid. Like people who could afford a lawyer or who knew how to contact to get help. They generally did better than people who were poor, isolated, and didn't have a lot of access to education or resources. Like, if you had a personal line to your state rep, who could argue with this committee on your behalf, you might get a lot more money than somebody who really didn't know where to start with all of this.

[Unknown]

But then the Great depression started in 1929, and that meant it got a lot harder to bring in new donations to pay for the condemned land and to collect on people's earlier pledges. By 1932, the minimum acreage needed for the park had been reduced to 160,000 acres. It ultimately took 10 years and an appropriation of a million dollars from the Virginia General assembly to acquire the necessary land.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Virginia had not been paying to or had not been intending to do that and was like, if we don't put in this million dollars it's not going to happen. As all of this was going on, the federal government was also building Skyline Drive as the park' Road and Scenic Parkway. This started with the creation of a fishing camp for President Herbert Hoover, who was the president at the time. William E. Carson had secured exclusive fishing rights on a part of the Rapidan river and convinced the President to establish his fishing camp there. The Presidential fishing camp required a road, and this area was also in the middle of an intense drought. So this road building became a federal drought relief project. The Federal Drought Relief Administration paid for out of work farmers and fruit pickers to build the road. And then the road became part of Skyline Drive and the President's fishing camp became part of Shenandoah National Park. This first phase of work initially connected the fishing camp to Big Meadows, Skyland and Thornton Gap.

[Unknown]

The idea behind Skyline Drive was that the road would be easy to drive on, with gentle spiral curves and a speed limit of 35 miles an hour in most places. Engineers and landscape architects used techniques that had been refined on roads and parkways in the parks in the West. It was built in segments of about 10 to 12 miles, with each segment being built with a different crew, most of them locally hired. Much of the manual labor was paid for by relief programs, first drought relief and then relief from the Great Depression. These segments had their differences based on the needs of the land along each stretch. But there was also a sense of unity stemming from the landscape architect's initial work to plan a road that would simultaneously have the best views and the least impact on the landscape.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So the road was built along a mountainside or carved out from the mountainside with soil that was then used to fill in other areas for the road. Blasting was limited and tightly controlled to minimize any scarring or destruction of the landscape, and large trees were protected as much as possible. Retaining walls, tunnels and bridges were built from local stone, and originally there were also guardrails made from local chestnut logs.

[Unknown]

By the time this road building got underway, it had been seven years since the Southern Appalachian national park had made its recommendation for the establishment of Shenandoah National Park. While there was plenty of controversy around the park and the fundraising and the land acquisition, people were also incredibly impatient for it to be open. An unpaved portion of the road from Camp Rapidan was open to the public temporarily in the fall of 1932. And while drivers did seem to enjoy the view, the temporary opening made it clear how much work there really was left to do. Not only did the road need to be paved, but There needed to be overlooks, guardrails and other features and amenities added before it could be really suitable as the scenic drive that it was intended to be.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Herbert Hoover lost the 1932 presidential election and his successor, Franklin D. Roosevelt, established the Civilian Conservation Corps not long after taking office in 1933. This was part of the New Deal, the set of projects and programs to try to help the United States get through the Great Depression. The CCC was created through the Emergency Conservation Work act, which was legislation passed by Congress as well AS Executive Order 6101. Relief of unemployment through the performance of useful public work. The Civilian Conservation Corps provided jobs for unemployed, unmarried young men, and a lot of that work was related to parks and natural resources. The CCC was racially segregated, and while there were CCC camps for black workers elsewhere in Virginia, the ones at Shenandoah were all white, and most of the people working in them were from small towns in Virginia.

[Unknown]

Ultimately, there were 12 CCC camps connected to Shenandoah National park and Skyline Drive. CCC workers built hiking trails and fire trails, picnic areas, campgrounds, and other amenities in the park. They also planted native trees and shrubs and built overlooks and guardrails along Skyline Drive. They graded the land around the road, helping it to blend in naturally with the landscape. And they helped restore land that had been over farmed again, focusing on native plants and trees. In some areas, they cut down trees and other vegetation to improve the view from the road and from overlooks. But in others, they replanted areas that had been clear cut or otherwise depleted. There was a focus on restoration of the native ecosystem, but also about creating and maintaining a view that looked natural, maybe not wild and untouched in the way the national parks in the west had been constructed, but scenic and rustic. Over the course of the Great Depression, about 4,000 people found work in Shenandoah national park and on Skyline Drive.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The first finished section of Skyline Drive opened to the public in 1934. This was the central part of the parkway. The northern section opened in 1936 and the southern part in 1939, which was after the park had opened.

[Unknown]

President Franklin D. Roosevelt formally dedicated Shenandoah National park on July 3, 1936, at Big Meadows, which is one of the park's recreation areas. In his address, he said, quote, the creation of this park is one part of our great program of husbandry, the joint husbandry of our human resources and our natural resources. He spoke about the young men who had found work in building the park and how the park was a work of Natural conservation that would give vacationers a respite that was good for their souls. He concluded, we seek to pass on to our children a richer land, a stronger nation. I therefore dedicate Shenandoah national park to this and succeeding generations of Americans for the recreation and for the recreation which we shall find.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Here we are batting a thousand on the opposite person. Reading the thing that made us cry in research.

[Unknown]

Hooray. I mean, that was a close call for me, but I made it.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

So. The park's struggles had not ended with the acquisition of the necessary land. Like this address made it sound really lovely. But there had had still been a lot of strife. In February of 1934, National Park Director Arno B. Camera had announced that anybody living in the park would have to leave before the park could open. From the federal government's point of view, this had always been the expectation, like that was how it was supposed to work. But that had not always been communicated very clearly, including to people who were tenants on land that was being sold to make the park park. They were now being considered squatters.

[Unknown]

A resettlement project called the Shenandoah Homesteads Project had been established in 1934 and then was taken over by the Resettlement Administration, which was a New Deal anti poverty program. This program was incredibly controversial, including among some people who had been supporters of the park since the beginning. For example, Harry F. Byrd, who had served as Virginia's governor until 1930 and then had been elected as a US senator, found it paternalistic and wasteful.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

The goal of this program was to resettle people out of the park and into newly established communities. People who earned a living by farming were to be moved to similar homesteads and others were expected to find work in other industries. But some of the people who were displaced by the creation of the park park had been getting at least part of their income from gathering and selling chestnuts. The chestnut blight that was introduced to the United States from Asia reached this part of Virginia as the park was being built. That dramatically affected the landscape of the park and it also destroyed chestnuts as a source of income. So that meant that some of the people who were being resettled were not only being displaced, but they also had to figure out an entirely new way of life.

[Unknown]

Roughly 2,000 people from 465 families were forcibly relocated for the creation of Shenandoah national park. And most of them did not make it on the homesteads where they had been resettled and they were ultimately displaced. Again, there were a lot of reasons for this, including that many of them went from living on land that their family had owned outright for generations to to land where they had to pay rent or a mortgage. There were also people who tried to return to their cabins after being forced out of them, and others who tried to take shelter in them. Due to the financial strains of the great depression, the national park service eventually destroyed many of these cabins to try to stop people from squatting in them. A very small number of elderly people were allowed to remain in their homes within the park until the end of their lives lives or until they needed to move somewhere that they could have more support.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

None of this was really known to park visitors, unless they were maybe locals. And after Shenandoah national park officially opened in 1936, it quickly became one of the most visited national parks. It was the first national park to get a million visitors in a year. Skyline drive had also been instantly popular after its first section opened in 1934.

[Unknown]

And of course, there were black visitors to the park and black motorists on skyline Drive right from the beginning. Perhaps surprisingly, considering that this was a southern state in the 1930s, this doesn't seem like something that park planners or the federal government had really thought much about before the park opened.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

Yeah, if they thought about it, they didn't, like, take action to make any kind of official policy. And by 1938, there were about 10,000 black visitors to Shenandoah national park every year. And there were also ongoing issues with black visitors being given contradictory messages from park staff about where they were allowed to be, what facilities they were allowed to use, as well as being hassled by white staff and visitors. So the national park service eventually established segregated accommodations in the park at Lewis mountain, Including a coffee shop, Picnic area, Campground, and cottages. These accommodations opened in 1939, and soon they became so popular that white visitors were asking to be admitted to them as well. Apparently, this had some of the best food in the park, and there was also a musical performance series that was very popular. The pinnacles picnic ground was also established specifically to be an integrated facility. There was no formal segregation policy for the rest of the park, but it was just broadly treated as whites only until the park started desegregating in the late 1940s. It finished that process in 1950, although, to be clear, there are still criticisms today about park visitors and staff and the national Park Service, more broadly, being disproportionately white.

[Unknown]

Today, Skyline Drive runs for 105.5 miles, and it's the only public road in Shenandoah National Park. In 1996. It was listed on the National Register of Historic Places. Shenandoah national park encompasses nearly 200,000 acres of land today, with nearly 80,000 acres designated as wilderness. There are also more than 500 miles of hiking trails, including 101 miles of the Appalachian Trail, which runs parallel to Skyline Drive. There is an entry fee of $15 per person entering on foot or $30 for private vehicles entering on Skyline Drive. Motorcycles are $25 Shenandoah National park, which.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I haven't said this earlier because it's going to be in the behind the scenes, but just in case people are wondering. It is an indigenous word, but we're not actually sure from which language or what specifically it meant. But But Shenandoah national park is also connected to Great Smoky Mountains national park via the Blue Ridge Parkway, and that's what we're going to talk about next time.

[Unknown]

Do you have listener mail?

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I do. I have listener mail. So this listener mail is from Kieran. They titled this email Roman Baths and Butts. The email says hello Tracy and Holly. I hope this email finds you as well as can possibly be. I just wanted to write a quick note that I hope might bring you a little bit of a laugh. Like most people, I've been having a chaotic year and fell behind on my listening, but just caught up and had to laugh at the timing of the Roman bathing traditions mentioned in the Unearthed episodes. Tasting History with Max Miller also just did a recent episode on Roman banquets, this time specifically roasted Flamingo, and quoted a few wonderfully spicy quips from the poet Marshall, infamous for his copious writings about whether or not he was invited to someone's dinner and his perceived quality of their company. Marshall wrote two of one acquaintance quote, you don't invite anyone to dinner, Kata, except your bathing companions. The baths alone supply you with guests. I've been wondering why you never invite me, Kata, but now I understand you don't like the sight of my bare butt. Clearly modern humans are not the only ones to perhaps have some misgivings about bathing and dining with all your work colleagues and acquaintances. Lol. I have not yet read Marshall's copious epigrams, but this episode made me want to put them on my reading list. Anyway, thank you two so much for all that you do. I cannot express in words how much I appreciate you both. I want to add my name to the list of people thanking you particularly for the Unearthed episodes and especially their introduction. Thank you, thank you, thank you you. I know this year has been a doozy thus far to say the least. So I hope that people in your life bake you cupcakes or something else nice soon as a treat for all of your hard work. You deserve all the special treats. Thanks again and all the best. Kieran thank you so much for this email. Kieran. This was a delight.

[Unknown]

But.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

I don't really have anything else to add. I just love that and I hope that Marshall is how Marshall's name was pronounced. As an ancient Roman person, I did not go look it up if it's some other pronunciation that pronounces letters differently. Sorry.

[Unknown]

Now I want Tina Belcher to become obsessed with Roman butts because she knows she has a butt fetish.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

If you'd like to send us a note about this or any other podcast or through history podcast that iheartradio.com and you can subscribe to our show on the iheartradio app and anywhere else you like to get your podcasts. Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Unknown]

You don't want vacation to end, but with Amex Platinum you earn 5 times Membership Rewards points on prepaid hotels and more booked through amextravel.com so you're already planning the next one. Book your room with fine hotels and resorts through Amex Travel and get an upgrade when available. Plus guaranteed 4pm checkout so you have time to check out the pool before flying off to what's next.

[Holly Fry]

Next.

[Unknown]

That's the powerful backing of American Express. Terms apply. Learn [e-mail] withamxcst1022318 with 4imprint, finding the.

Right promo products has never been easier. You get free samples, expert help and art assistance to ensure your logo looks great. 4imprint offers thousands of options to choose from, including summer ready gear, branded apparel, drinkware, outdoor and more. Your order will be packed with care, delivered on time and backed by their 360 degree guarant4imprint certainty. Need your order fast? 4imprint offer quick turnaround options too? Visit 4imprint.com and see how easy ordering can be for Imprint for certain.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

For some of us, personal finances aren't just personal. They include a lot more people than ourselves, loved ones, neighbors, the communities we call home, and the causes we hold in our hearts. At Thrivent, we help plan your financial picture with the bigger picture in mind. Because even though our business is helping guide your finances, our ambition is to make it mean so much more Thrivent where money means more. Connect with [e-mail] Travel smarter, not harder.

[Unknown]

At America's Best Value Inn by Sonesta with convenient locations from coast to coast.

And value packed comfort at every turn.

And when you're a Sonesta Travel Pass.

Member, staying at America's Best Value Inn means earning points toward free nights, upgrades and more. Go to sonesta.com to book your stay.

And unlock their best rates with Sonesta Travel Pass. Here today, Rome tomorrow.

Join [e-mail] Terms and conditions apply.

[Tracy V. Wilson]

This is an iHeart podcast.