SYMHC Classics: Hatshepsut

Summary

SYMHC Classics: Hatshepsut

Podcast: Stuff You Missed in History Class
Hosts: Holly Fry & Tracy B. Wilson
Release Date: April 26, 2025

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Introduction to Hatshepsut and Ancient Egypt

The episode opens with Holly Fry introducing the fascinating figure of Hatshepsut, an extraordinary female pharaoh of ancient Egypt. Tracy B. Wilson sets the stage by acknowledging the scarcity of African history episodes, emphasizing their intent to shed light on Hatshepsut's remarkable journey and her famed expedition to Punt.

Holly Fry [02:10]: "Happy Saturday. One of the finds on our recent installment of Unearthed was a pair of tombs that likely belonged to Thutmose II, half brother and husband."

The 18th Dynasty and Hatshepsut's Ascension

Tracy dives into the historical context of the 18th Dynasty, highlighting prominent pharaohs like Amenhotep III, Akhenaten, and Tutankhamun. She explains the dynastic traditions, including the commonly practiced sibling marriages to consolidate power.

Tracy B. Wilson [04:43]: "Hatshepsut was pharaoh near the start of the New Kingdom, which started with the founding of the 18th ruling dynasty."

Holly provides a brief genealogy, outlining how Hatshepsut ascended to power following the untimely death of her husband, Thutmose II, and the infancy of their stepson, Thutmose III.

Holly Fry [06:54]: "When Thutmose died, He and Amose had one daughter, Hatshepsut."

Hatshepsut's Regency and Rise to Power

Initially acting as regent for the young Thutmose III, Hatshepsut maintained stability by engaging in typical regent activities such as temple restoration and organizing expeditions.

Tracy B. Wilson [08:49]: "For the first few years after her husband's death, Hatshepsut's conduct as regent was pretty typical for the time as well."

However, in the seventh year of her regency, a pivotal moment occurs when she claims divine endorsement to rule as pharaoh alongside her stepson.

Holly Fry [09:37]: "But by the seventh year of her regency, that had started to change. She reported that the oracle of Amun had delivered a message from the God that she should be king."

Establishing Her Reign as Pharaoh

Hatshepsut adopts both feminine and masculine iconography, symbolizing her dual role as queen and king. She takes on a throne name, Ma'at Kare, reinforcing her commitment to truth and divine order.

Holly Fry [10:45]: "As Pharaoh, she took a new throne name. Ma'at Kare, which translates roughly to Truth is the soul of Re."

Tracy discusses her prolific building projects, including her mortuary temple at Deir el-Bahari, which remains a testament to her architectural genius.

Tracy B. Wilson [11:17]: "She also banned construction of her mortuary temple known as Jaser Jaseru or Holy of Holies."

The Expedition to Punt

A significant highlight of Hatshepsut's reign was her ambitious expedition to Punt, aimed at restoring and expanding trade networks.

Holly Fry [36:33]: "Hatshepsut's expedition to Punt was one of the most notable acts in her time as king."

Tracy elaborates on the logistical challenges of the journey, detailing the dual routes along the Red Sea and the Nile, and the intricate process of ship construction and disassembly.

Tracy B. Wilson [34:22]: "Egyptian documents describe two different routes to Punt. One of them is along the Red Sea and one is along the Nile."

The relief carvings from her mortuary temple provide vivid depictions of the journey, the Puntite people, and the exotic goods returned, such as aromatic resins, wood, and live animals.

Tracy B. Wilson [38:23]: "The bas reliefs and Hatshepsut's temple depict large sailed ships crewed with 30 rowers, each carrying goods from Egypt."

Senenmut: Hatshepsut's Trusted Advisor

Hatshepsut's reign was significantly influenced by her chief advisor, Senenmut, who held numerous titles and was instrumental in her architectural projects.

Tracy B. Wilson [20:51]: "Hatshepsut's most powerful advisor was a man named Senenmut. He ultimately amassed 93 different official titles and became chief architect of Hatshepsut's mortuary temple."

Speculation exists about their relationship, though concrete evidence remains elusive. Senenmut's disappearance in the later years of Hatshepsut's rule adds an air of mystery to his influence.

Tracy B. Wilson [21:30]: "There's been some speculation that the two of them were linked romantically."

Hatshepsut's Legacy and Posthumous Struggles

After her death, Thutmose III assumed full control, leading to attempts to erase Hatshepsut's legacy. Her monuments were defaced, her name omitted from king lists, and her image altered to diminish her authority.

Holly Fry [23:15]: "After Hatshepsut's death, Thutmose III became the sole ruler."

Historically, early interpretations painted her as power-hungry and malevolent, but recent scholarship offers a more nuanced perspective, suggesting political motivations behind the erasure of her legacy.

Tracy B. Wilson [26:16]: "Today we know that about 20 years passed between Hatshepsut's death and the defacement of her tomb and all the other destruction."

Despite these efforts, remnants of her reign persisted, and archaeological discoveries in the 19th century began to piece together her true impact on Egyptian history.

Holly Fry [24:34]: "With so much of her record destroyed, Hatshepsut soon fell into complete obscurity."

The Enigmatic Land of Punt

Returning to the central theme, the podcast delves deeper into the mystery of Punt—the Land of Gods. Tracy and Holly explore various theories about its location, primarily focusing on regions along the Red Sea and the Horn of Africa.

Tracy B. Wilson [35:50]: "Whether an expedition traveled along the Red Sea or stuck mostly to the Nile might have been a matter of practicality."

They discuss the goods traded, the cultural exchanges depicted in the reliefs, and the difficulties in pinpointing Punt's exact location due to limited archaeological evidence.

Holly Fry [41:07]: "We also don't know exactly where Punt was. That's something people have been trying to figure out for more than 150 years."

Conclusion: Hatshepsut's Enduring Impact

The episode concludes by reaffirming Hatshepsut's significance as one of ancient Egypt's most successful and enigmatic rulers. Her ability to navigate a male-dominated society, embark on grand expeditions, and leave a lasting architectural legacy cements her place in history.

Tracy B. Wilson [22:01]: "She was incredibly savvy to do this, and she also proved herself to be a capable ruler."

Holly reflects on the importance of reevaluating historical narratives to appreciate the complexities of figures like Hatshepsut.

Holly Fry [28:17]: "The idea of a female king is also an affront to the concept of Ma'at that we talked about earlier."

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Notable Quotes

• Holly Fry [09:37]: "She reported that the oracle of Amun had delivered a message from the God that she should be king."

• Tracy B. Wilson [26:16]: "Today we know that about 20 years passed between Hatshepsut's death and the defacement of her tomb and all the other destruction."

• Tracy B. Wilson [22:01]: "She was incredibly savvy to do this, and she also proved herself to be a capable ruler."

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Final Thoughts

Hatshepsut's reign exemplifies the dynamic nature of ancient Egyptian politics and society. Her ability to maintain power, undertake monumental projects, and engage in extensive trade expeditions demonstrates her extraordinary leadership and vision. This episode of Stuff You Missed in History Class offers listeners a comprehensive and engaging exploration of one of history's most remarkable female rulers.

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Listen to the full episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, or your preferred podcast platform to delve deeper into the life and legacy of Hatshepsut.

Transcript

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Happy Saturday. One of the finds on our recent installment of Unearthed was a pair of tombs that likely belonged to Thutmose II, half brother and husband.

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2.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Hatshepsut. Our episode on Hatshepsut and the voyage to Punt that took place during her reign is the subject of today's Saturday classic.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

This originally came out July 3, 2019. Enjoy.

[Holly Fry]

Welcome to Stuff youf Missed in History Class, a production of iHeartRadio.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Hello and welcome to the podcast. I'm Tracy B. Wilson.

[Holly Fry]

And I'm Holly Fry.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

And it has been too long since we've had any African history on the show. We know this. It's one of those things where you look at the recent archive and go, wow, that has been a while. I really wanted to do an episode on the Land of Poot, which is spelled Punt. So sometimes you'll also hear people pronounce it Punt, and sometimes it's described as a kingdom, sometimes more of a massive trading center. But there are some really, really big holes in our knowledge of Punt that make it hard to do a whole episode on it. For example, we don't know exactly where it was. There are references to Punt in Egyptian writing that span about 2,000 years, and there's also mentions from elsewhere in the world. But it's not totally clear whether all of these references are referring to the same place. But one of our biggest sources of information on Punt comes from Hatshepsut, who sent a huge expedition there in the 15th century BCE. This expedition to Punt is also an important and illustrative part of Hatshepsut's reign. So today we're going to go to Punt by way of Hatshepsut.

[Holly Fry]

And the civilization that we call Ancient Egypt expanded and contracted in cycles for thousands of years, with periods of prospering and flourishing divided by periods of decline and instability. This is part of why I have not jumped on any African history recently, because I start delving in and then I go, whoa, whoa, whoa, this water's too deep. And I back up. Archaeologists have roughly divided these prosperous eras into the old, middle, and new kingdoms, separated by intermediary periods. These people knew their civilization by a number of names, including the two lands, the Beloved Land, and Kemet, which is usually translated as Black Land, often interpreted as a reference to the fertile soil that sits along the Nile River.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Hatshepsut was pharaoh near the start of the New Kingdom, which started with the founding of the 18th ruling dynasty. The 18th dynasty also includes some of Egypt's most well known pharaohs, including Amenhotep iii, Akhenaten, and Tutankhamun. These kings did not call themselves pharaohs, though that's a Greek term that was coined a little later and then kind of retroactively applied to all of the kings of this ancient kingdom.

[Holly Fry]

The 18th Dynasty was founded by Amosa in about 1539 BCE, and after his death in about 1514 BCE, Amosa was succeeded by his son, Amenhotep I. But when Amenhotep first died, in about 1493 BCE, he did not have a male heir. So in that case, one of his generals, Thutmose, was next on the throne.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Thutmose married a woman named Ahmose. And it's not entirely clear who her parents were. One of her titles was king's sister. But it's not totally known whether that came from being the sister of one of the previous kings. Or Thutmose's own sister.

[Holly Fry]

In the society, kings had a primary wife. Known as the great royal wife. Along with other lesser wives and concubines. And for much of ancient Egyptian history. It was typical for the king to take his sister or half sister as his great royal wife. And to marry his other sisters as well. The king was the embodiment of the God Horus. And a marriage to a sister or half sister. Hearkened back to the Egyptian creation story. In this story, the first God, Atum, had no partner. So he created the first pair of deities by himself. This brother, sister pair. Then produced another brother, sister pair, and so on.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

In the 18th Dynasty, in particular, it was required for royal sisters to marry their brother kings. And then for daughters of that pair to marry the next king. And in addition to the religious aspect that connected back to this creation story. This also really concentrated the power and the wealth within the royal family. So whether Thutmose was marrying his own sister. Or the sister of one of the previous kings. His doing this strengthened his claim to the throne. And it preserved the idea of balance.

[Holly Fry]

When Thutmose died, He and Amose had one daughter, Hatshepsut. Hatshepsut had been trained as a high priestess in the temple of Ammon. Who was head of the Egyptian pantheon. As well as patron deity of the kings in the city of Thebes. During the New Kingdom, Thutmose and Amoseh did not have a son. But Thutmose did have a son with one of his lesser wives. And that son was Thutmose ii.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Thutmose II followed his father on the throne in about 1482 BCE. And he married his half sister, Hatshepsut. Who was about 13 at the time. Because the new king was very young, inexperienced, and chronically ill. The king's great royal wife acted as his regent.

[Holly Fry]

But Thutmose II did not live long after becoming king. He died in about 1479 BCE. After he had been on the throne for about three years. By that point, he and Hatshepsut had one daughter, Neferera. And they did not have any sons. However, like his father, Thutmose II did have sons by other wives. Including one by a woman named Isis. This was Thutmose III, who was about 2 years old at the time of his father's death.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

A marriage was planned between Thutmose III and his half sister, Neferera. And this would similarly strengthen his tie to the throne. Although at the time, both of them were way too young to immediately get married. So in the meantime, Hatshepsut, Thutmose III's stepmother and aunt. Was going to act as his regent. Because his mother, Isis, wasn't of royal blood.

[Holly Fry]

Up until this point, the line of succession in the 18th Dynasty had progressed in a way that was really pretty typical. Apart from Thutmose I being a general who was not of royal birth. And it was also pretty common for a woman to act as regent. If her husband died before his heir was old enough to rule on his own. It was more common for a woman to wind up in such a position of power at the end of the dynasty, though when the late king had no male heir.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

For the first few years after her husband's death. Hatshepsut's conduct as regent was pretty typical for the time as well. She built a memorial chapel to her late husband. She was publicly dedicated to preserving his memory and looking after the welfare of his sons. She took action on young Thutmose's behalf. And guided him as he grew into the divine king on his own. She ordered the renewal and restorations of temples to honor the young king. And she sent an expedition to Aswan to quarry a pair of obelisks that would be dedicated to him. Writings about her from this time referred to her as Queen. Or with her formal religious title, as the kingdom's highest priestess. Which was God's wife of Amun. And her depictions and carvings were pretty typical for a woman in these positions.

[Holly Fry]

But by the seventh year of her regency, that had started to change. She reported that the oracle of Amun had delivered a message from the God that she should be king. Becoming co ruler with her stepson. In her account, this happened at the temple of Karnak during a festival. When a statue of Amun was supposed to perform an oracle or miracle. At first no message came. But when it finally did, the statue moved around dramatically and delivered a message to her that she was to be both Her Majesty and the God's wife.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

She started to be depicted in artwork with both masculine and feminine traits. And after a while, she was shown as a man with the skirt and the decorative beard and the crown that signified her being king. She wasn't disguising her gender, though. The language that was used to describe her was still feminine most of the time. Even as the artwork was depicting her as progressively more masculine. This was really something that happened over time with some more masculine elements appearing long before the seventh year of her regency. And then with her depictions continuing to become more and more masculine as time passed.

[Holly Fry]

And at some point she was formally crowned in a series of rituals that took days to complete. As was typical for Pharaoh, she took a new throne name. Ma'at Kare, which translates roughly to Truth is the soul of Re. The idea of Ma'at or truth in this context also connected to justice and order and was a trait that was established by the gods. The role of the pharaoh was to mediate between the gods and humanity, preserving the gods. Ma'at. There was also a goddess named Maat who was the personification of these traits.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

She also banned construction of her mortuary temple known as Jaser Jaseru or Holy of Holies. This was built at the Deir el Bahari temple complex near what's now Luxor. This temple was meant to guide her into the afterlife where as Pharaoh, she would transcend into a divine being. And it was to make sure that she was well provided for there. The tomb to actually hold her mummy was built in another location. Hatshepsut's mortuary temple was a massive three tier temple made from sandstone, full of stacks statuary, including statues of Hatshepsut as the God Osiris. The structure itself still stands today.

[Holly Fry]

Relief carvings on the temple walls documented Hatshepsut's biography and her rule as king. This included a new story documenting her birth. That the God Amun had disguised himself as Thutmose the First and impregnated Hatshepsut's mother. Both her throne name and her new origin story reinforced the idea that she had a legitimate claim to be king and that she was connected directly to the God Amun who authorized her to do it.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Although she was technically co ruler with Thutmose III for the rest of his life, she acted as the sole monarch. She also changed his throne name from one that meant the manifestation of Rey is enduring to one that meant the manifestation of the soul of Rey is enduring. Kind of adding a degree of separation between him and being a direct manifestation of the God.

[Holly Fry]

And it's not entirely clear what motivated her to do this. When archaeologists first unearthed her tomb in the 19th century, they concluded that she was power hungry. And conniving, and had stolen the throne from her stepson for her own selfish reasons. And we're going to talk about why they came to that conclusion in just.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

A bit more Recent scholars have pretty much dismissed that idea, though. While simple ambition might have been involved, it's also possible that there was some kind of threat to Thutmose iii and that Hatshepsut was protecting him by becoming the king herself. It might have been just that he had been king under a regency for about seven years and he still wasn't old enough to father an heir. It would probably be another seven or so years before he could actually rule the kingdom on his own. That was a lot of time to get through in a world where early deaths were really common. And it's also possible that her doing this wasn't actually her idea, that it was something that advisors or the priesthood thought was necessary for some reason.

[Holly Fry]

Regardless, she could not have done this without significant support among the ruling class. She had carefully cultivated relationships and alliances for years as regent before taking on the role of king. What she did was unprecedented, but the elite in Thebes allowed her to do it, and the fact that they did suggest that she was admired and respected as a leader before she took the throne.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

It's clear that regardless of what the motivations were, she was incredibly savvy to do this, and she also proved herself to be a capable ruler, which we will talk about after a Sponsor Breaking.

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[Tracy B. Wilson]

We talked before the break about how, before Hatshepsut became king, the line of succession had unfolded in the 18th Dynasty in a pretty typical way. But Hatshepsut's ascension to the throne wasn't typical at all. There were other women who had held positions of power in Egyptian history, but for one to take the throne in this way was really unprecedented. So in addition to her throne name and the revised story of her birth, she got to work immediately, taking steps to try to reinforce the idea that she was a legitimate ruler.

[Holly Fry]

She commissioned hundreds of statues and other artwork depicting her as king, along with statues and structures honoring the God Amun. She expanded the priesthood and constructed temples all over Thebes and beyond, including a bark chapel that French archaeologists named the Chapelle Rouge after unearthing the blocks used to build it in the 1920s. The chapel's original location is unknown. It was dismantled after Hatshepsut's death, and its blocks were used for a pylon in Karnak. She employed craftspeople associated with some of the kingdom's most prominent families to do all of this. Building up her base of support, Hatshepsut.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Launched two military expeditions into Nubia, one of which she reportedly led herself. She also sent expeditions to mine gold in Nubia and in the eastern desert. She strengthened trading relationships with other parts of Africa and with the Levant, possibly as far west as what's now Afghanistan. Shortly after taking the throne, she also dispatched a massive trading expedition to Punt, which we'll be talking about in more detail in a bit.

[Holly Fry]

And throughout all of this, she gave favors to prominent men whose support she needed to stay in power. But she also made appointments to political newcomers, which gave her support that did not come with as many strings attached.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

In the 15th year of her rule, Hatshepsut sent another expedition to Aswan to quarry a second set of obelisks, with this pair being inscribed to her. A year later, she held a jubilee festival known as Sed, something that was typically done in the 30th year of a king's rule to rejuvenate his power. It's possible that she chose this earlier date because it was about 30 years since her father had died, at which point she had become her husband's queen. So in a way, that marked the beginning of her time on the throne.

[Holly Fry]

At some point, she had her father's mummy moved to a tomb near her mortuary temple, again reinforcing her connection to the dynastic line. She also increasingly focused on her right to rule as coming from being her father's daughter rather than her having been married to Thutmose II during her time on the throne.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Hatshepsut's most powerful advisor was a man named Senenmut. We don't know all that much about him as a person. He started out as the overseer of the large hall at the palace in Thebes. Starting at the very beginning of Thutmose II's reign. He soon took on an increasing number of political appointments and became tutor to Hatshepsut's daughter. By the time Hatshepsut took the throne, he had become incredibly powerful and a very important figure. He ultimately amassed 93 different official titles and became chief architect of Hatshepsut's mortuary temple. He oversaw treasuries and craftspeople all over the kingdom.

[Holly Fry]

There's been some speculation that the two of them were linked romantically. Some of it stems from the fact that he was very close to Hatshepsut's daughter, leading people to wonder whether he was actually her father. He also built his burial temple near Hatshepsut's mortuary temple. Also, Senenmut was a powerful man in the court of a woman, which is frequently cause for suspicion. Although it's likely that Hatshepsut had other relationships after her husband's death. She would have had to have been really careful about one involving Senenmut.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Senenmut disappears from the historical record in the 19th year of Hatshepsut's rule. Although he might have survived after her death. She died in her early 40s after having ruled as king for about 15 years and as Thutmose III's regent for about seven years before that. This makes her the longest reigning female monarch in ancient Egyptian history and possibly the first to rule as a king rather than a regent or other interim ruler. As we noted earlier, there were other women who served as regents or who grew into having a lot of power as queens. And there's some debate about whether any of these earlier women became kings in their own right.

[Holly Fry]

After Hatshepsut's death, Thutmose III became the sole ruler. It's clear from his time as king that Hatshepsut had prepared him to be a skilled leader from both a military and a political perspective. He had begun marrying and fathering children by his late teens, and by the time he was 20, he was commander of the military. After Hatshepsut's death, he conquered much of what is now Syria as well as parts of Sudan and Iraq. The first of these expeditions took place almost immediately after he became the sole monarch. It seems as though Hatshepsut had started making preparations for it before her death.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Like Hatshepsut had done. Thutmose III also undertook huge building projects. Constructing temples and having obelisks quarried in Aswan. He also completed monuments to her that were already underway when she died. But then, about 20 years into his reign, Thutmose III started construction of a new temple which was next to Hatshepsut's mortuary temple. And at about this time, people started removing all references to Hatshepsut king from temples and other buildings all over the kingdom.

[Holly Fry]

Statues depicting her as king were smashed. Relief carvings were defaced. Her name was chiseled out of the reliefs at Djser Cseru and replaced with the names of Thutmose I, the Second and the Third. Her mortuary temple was reconsecrated. And her obelisks at Karnak were walled in. Her name was also removed from the official lists of kings. It is generally concluded that Thutmose III ordered this purge. But it's not clear how much he was encouraged to do so by the priesthood or his advisors.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

She wasn't entirely obliterated from the record, though. This destruction went on for the rest of Thutmose III's life, which was for about another decade. But there were so many statues and other depictions of Hatshepsut that some of them were still intact by the time he died.

[Holly Fry]

With so much of her record destroyed, Hatshepsut soon fell into complete obscurity. The people who remembered and supported her eventually died. And without her name in the list of kings, she seems to have been forgotten within a few generations. When her mortuary temple was unearthed in the 19th century, no one knew how to read hieroglyphics yet. So all of the smashed statues and other defacements were interpreted as simple vandalism or the work of grave robbers.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Then in the 1820s, John Francois Champollion built on earlier work by Thomas Young to decipher the hieroglyphic text on the Rosetta stone. And then that paved the way for modern people to be able to read hieroglyphics. Champollion personally visited Hatshepsut's temple and was deeply confused by what he found there. In addition to all these replaced names, There were pictures of two kings standing side by side. That was incredibly unusual. There was also writing that just didn't make sense. That had feminine word forms when they expected masculine ones.

[Holly Fry]

Eventually, archaeologists pieced together what had happened. That Hatshepsut had been Thutmose III's regent but had taken the throne herself. But they erroneously concluded that Thutmose had immediately removed Hatshepsut's name from the record as soon as she died. They imagined that Thutmose was angry at having had his kingship stolen from him for more than a decade. And that his removal of his stepmother's name was evidence of both his outrage and her character. Based on this assumption, they concluded that Hatshepsut was a stereotypical evil stepmother right out of a Disney movie. Wicked and conniving and only interested in her own power.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

But today we know that about 20 years passed between Hatshepsut's death and the defacement of her tomb and all the other destruction. And the interpretation of what led to that defacement is much different. That's largely thanks to the work of Egyptologist Charles Nims in 1966, who was the first person to pinpoint the date of the defacement. Defacement as being the 42nd year of Thutmose II's reign. According to some researchers, it was even later than that. So it's more likely that the ruling class became interested in preserving the idea that the dynastic line had continued without any kind of interruption through Thutmose I, second and the third.

[Holly Fry]

It's also possible that there was some concern about Thutmose III's successor, Amenhotep II. Thutmose did eventually marry Hatshepsut's daughter, Neferera. And he had a son either with her or with another royal wife. But both of them died. So his successor was Amenhotep ii, whose mother had no royal lineage and no connection back to Hatshepsut. It seems that Thutmose III was concerned enough about the line of succession that he had Amenhotep crowned while he was still living. With the two of them acting as co monarchs.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

So this removal of Hatshepsut from the record might have been connected to all this uncertainty. And it's also possible that the purge wouldn't have been considered necessary if Hatshepsut's daughter had survived and she had become the mother to the next king rather than the king's wife. Coming from this totally disconnected lineage, the.

[Holly Fry]

Idea of a female king is also an affront to the concept of Ma'at that we talked about earlier. The king was supposed to be an intermediary with the gods and a living embodiment of Horus, keeping everything in balance. So having a woman in this role was basically the opposite of this idea of ordered justice. The fact that a woman had a relatively peaceful and prosperous reign in spite of this affront to Ma'at may have raised unwelcome questions about that divine order and the rule of other kings.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Hatshepsut's mummy wasn't placed in the tomb where she intended it to be, or if it was, it was later moved. But a mummy from a tomb that was found in the Valley of the kings in 1902 might be hers. That tomb was fully excavated starting in 1920.

[Holly Fry]

During the excavation, archaeologists found the mummies of two women, one of which was on the floor. One of these was later identified as Hatshepsut's wet nurse. The other one, the one that had been on the floor, was positioned in a way that was often used for royal women. A CT scan found that it was missing a tooth. Meanwhile, a box marked with Hatshepsut's cartouche had been unearthed as well in a cache of royal mummies. A scan of that box revealed that it contained a tooth. And this tooth appears to be a match for the mummy's missing one. So it's likely that this was Hatshepsut's mummy, although that is still not 100% proven.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, there was discussion of using DNA to try to confirm everything back when these initial analyses happened. I don't know what the results of that were. I could not find reference to it anywhere. But it's also incredibly difficult to get good DNA out of mummified samples that are this old. Anyway, this finally brings us to the voyage to punt that I wanted to focus on from the beginning. And we will get to that after a sponsor Breaking news.

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[Tracy B. Wilson]

I'm Greg Lodd.

[Greg Lodd]

And this is season two of the War on Drugs podcast. Sir, we are back in a big way.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

In a very big way. Real people, real perspectives.

[Greg Lodd]

This is kind of star studded a little bit, man. We got Ricky Williams, NFL player, Heisman Trophy winner.

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Music stars Marcus King, John Osborne.

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For brothers Osborne. We have this misunderstanding of what this quote unquote drug fans.

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Benny the Butcher, Brent Smith from Shinedown. Be real from Cypress Hill, NHL enforcer Riley Cote, Marine Corvette, MMA fighter Liz Caramouche.

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What we're doing now isn't working and.

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We need to change things.

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Stories matter and it brings a face to them.

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It makes it real.

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It really does. It makes it real.

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Listen to new episodes of the War on Drugs Podcast Season 2 on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts. And to hear episodes one week early and ad free with exclusive content, subscribe to Lava for Good plus on Apple Podcast.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Hey everyone. We want to tell you about our podcast.

[Daniel]

Hi, I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and I think our universe is absolutely extraordinary.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Hello, I'm Kelly Wienersmith. I study parasites along with nature's other creepy crawlies. And there's just endless things about this universe that I find fascinating.

[Daniel]

All right, well, basically, we're both nerds. We love learning about this extraordinary universe and we love sharing what we've learned. So that's what we're gonna do.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

And on our podcast, Daniel and Kelly's extraordinary universe is all about the mind blowing discoveries we've made about this crazy.

[Daniel]

Beautiful cosmos, from the tiniest particles to the biggest blue whales.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Each Tuesday and Thursday we take an hour long dive into some science topics, during which time I try to suppress my biologist training and keep the poop jokes to a minimum.

[Daniel]

Learn all about our amazing and beautiful universe on Daniel and Kelly's extraordinary universe every Tuesday and Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The first reference to Punt in ancient Egyptian writing is from the Palermo Stone, which dates back to about 2500 BCE. That was more than a thousand years before Hatshepsut became king. According to the Palermo Stone, King Sahura sent an expedition to Punt, which returned with 80,000 measures of a substance that's generally written as NTYW, sometimes preceded by an apostrophe. Some sources translate this word as frankincense and others translate it as myrrh. Both of these are made from aromatic tree resins and are used to make perfumes and incense, as well as spices and medicine. This expedition also brought back wood in the form of rods or staves, which were probably used to make spears and other weapons because the Egyptian kingdom's territory at that time didn't include trees that yielded wood that was good for that purpose.

[Holly Fry]

There are periodic references to Punt, also known as God's Land, in Egyptian writing. After that, all of the documented expeditions were associated with kings who were known for exceptional leadership and good fortune. There are also fictional references, including the tale of the shipwrecked sailor. This story dates back to the Middle Kingdom, and in it a sailor washes up on an island in the Red Sea and meets the Lord of Punt. The Lord of Punt is a serpent who gives him all kinds of gifts, including myrrh, eye paint, baboons, and elephant tusks.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Egyptian documents describe two different routes to Punt. One of them is along the Red Sea and one is along the Nile. Both of them involve some time on the Nile as well as travel over land. For the Red Sea route, ships were probably built on the Nile and then they sailed to Koptos. From there they were disassembled and then carried along a dry riverbed called the Wadi Hamamat, and that went all the way to the Red sea, which was 120 miles or 193km away. Then on the return trip, the goods probably would have been loaded onto pack animals to be carried back across the Wadi Hamamat, and then they would have been loaded into different ships on the Nile rather than deconstructing the ships and carrying them. Again, it was an involved process. You would only want to go to this place if it took that much effort. If you were gonna get some really good trade goods out of it, you.

[Holly Fry]

Really had to wanna do it. To travel along the Nile, ships would have used rowers and sails to travel south against the current, followed the current back. But it's not clear exactly where the overland portion was headed after getting off of the ships.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Whether an expedition traveled along the Red Sea or stuck mostly to the Nile might have been a matter of practicality, with the Egyptians traveling farther down the Nile when they had friendly relationships with the kingdoms and empires in that area, but then crossing over the land and traveling down the Red Sea when they didn't. Or it could have been that Punt was very large and stretched all the way from the Red Sea to the Nile, and that Egyptians visited different parts of it at different times.

[Holly Fry]

Like we mentioned at the top of the show, Hatshepsut's expedition to Punt was one of the most notable acts in her time as king. And a lot of what we know about Punt comes from her documentation of those expeditions. According to the account in the relief carvings in Hatshepsut's mortuary temple, this voyage restored trade with Punt after an interruption of more than 200 years.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

She had several probable reasons for wanting to embark on this expedition. One was simply access to luxury goods and aromatic resins. The resins in particular were really important for religious purposes. This might have been a reward for her supporters when she ascended to the throne. Like, they helped her get on the throne, and in return, she was going to give them access to all of this good trade. It was probably also a way to keep the army busy. Although it does appear that Hatshepsut led a couple of small military campaigns into Nubia, it wasn't generally considered appropriate for a woman to personally lead an army into battle. On top of that, there was just a lot more risk for her than there would be for a man in her position. It would have been just catastrophic for an unprecedented female king to lead a military campaign that then failed. So Hatshepsut needed some other way to reinforce the idea that she was competent and accomplished and capable as king, and she needed something to do to keep the soldiers occupied, like having them go all the way to Punt.

[Holly Fry]

And as was the case with her ascension to the throne, Hatshepsut's relief carvings show that this was divinely ordered, saying that the oracle had delivered a command that quote, the highways to the mer terraces should be opened. This is a slightly different framing from how other pharaohs documented their expeditions to Punt, which more focused on Amun or Amun re causing Punt to send their goods or causing the way to Punt to be opened.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

The bas reliefs and Hatshepsut's temple depict large sailed ships crewed with 30 rowers, each carrying goods from Egypt, including fruit, meat, bread, beer and wine. They sail across the water, and based on the aquatic life that's shown in the carvings, that water is probably meant to be the Red Sea. Once they arrive in Punt, there are carvings of the region's trees, which might be the trees used to produce ebony, frankincense or myrrh. There are also some fig trees. There are also depictions of huts with dom roofs on stilts, which might have been houses or granaries.

[Holly Fry]

From there, the reliefs show all kinds of goods being loaded back onto the ships, including herbs, wood, resins, gold, incense and animal skins. There are also lots of live animals, including baboons, monkeys, cattle and hounds. Enslaved people and their children are loaded into the ships as well, and cross sections of the loaded ships show them just packed to the gills with goods.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Once the goods arrived safely at Karnak temple in Thebes, the Egyptians and the Puntite dignitaries who are returned with them are shown presenting Hatshepsut with the goods that they had brought. This includes live resin trees in baskets meant for transplanting, and Hatshepsut did transplant them around her mortuary temple. In the carvings, Hatshepsut also consecrates the best of all these goods to the God Amun.

[Holly Fry]

The people of Punt appear in these depictions as well. They have dark reddish skin with long hair and goatee like beards. The only ones whose names are mentioned are King Pirahu and his queen ati. The Queen is depicted as being very strikingly large, something that has led to a lot of commentary about her body. And a lot of it has started with the assumption that there was a pathological explanation for her body shape and size. But it may have just been how she was built, or a mark of status and wealth in her culture. By the way, if you look her up, be prepared to read some really gross and insulting things about her body in almost every single article, including articles.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

That are brand new. Almost no one had nothing ugly to say about what the Queen of Punt looked like. These reliefs are very detailed, so it's likely that Hatshepsut sent artists with the expedition and ordered them to make very careful observations for the sake of these reliefs when they returned. And the reliefs are definitely our biggest single source of information about Punt. But there is still so much that we don't know. For one thing, we really don't know how the people of Punt referred to themselves. Punt is what is in Egyptian writing, But it's also echoed in things that came later, Like Herodotus history, which was written in the 5th century BCE, and.

[Holly Fry]

We also don't know exactly where it was. That's something people have been trying to figure out for more than 150 years. At first, researchers focused on the Arabian Peninsula. But as archaeologists unearthed more and more descriptions of Punt being to the south Rather than to the east of the Egyptian kingdom, and more references of the goods being traded, they started focusing more on the stretch of the continent Between Egyptian territory and the Horn of Africa.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Many of the goods described as coming from Punt Were native to this part of the African continent. But there's still a lot of room for speculation. This is especially true since the ancient Egyptians were certainly not Punt's only trading partner. So the goods that were available in Punt probably came from other parts of the world as well, Both on the continent of Africa and elsewhere. Also, the domed huts and the stilt houses that are shown in the reliefs are more associated with central and western Africa Than with the parts of the continent that were most likely to be accessed via the Red Sea, and which archaeologists and other researchers have mostly focused on in this search.

[Holly Fry]

Most, but not all, researchers have concluded that Punt was probably located somewhere along the Red Sea. But exactly where is still a mystery. Researchers have certainly put forth a lot of ideas, a lot of them simultaneously contradictory and well supported. Most place Punt somewhere in what's now Eritrea, Ethiopia, or Somalia. In an article in the Journal of the American Research center in Egypt, Stanley Balanda explores descriptions of Punt as on the twin shores of the sea. And he interprets the account's description of where the expedition pitched their tents as on both sides of the Red Sea. Based on that, he concludes that Punt lay along the Bal Al Mandab strait, With modern Djibouti on one side and Yemen on the other, in both eastern Africa and the western Arabian Peninsula.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

In 2010, researchers even tried to use oxygen isotope analysis to try to confirm Punt's location by studying the mummy of a baboon that had presumably been brought back from Punt. That research suggested that this baboon was from what's now Eritrea or eastern Ethiopia. And so they concluded that Punt might have covered all of that general area.

[Holly Fry]

A major archaeological discovery could clear all this up. But right now, the biggest archaeological finds related to Punt are from the Egyptian harbor of Mersa Gawassis, known at the time as Saw, which show evidence of trade with Punt.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Regardless, though, Punt seems to have existed as an important and thriving trading partner from roughly 2500 BCE to about 600 BCE. The last Egyptian expedition that we know about took place under Ramses iii in the 12th century BCE.

[Holly Fry]

Ah, elusive punt.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah, I'm very you will also if you go poking around on the Internet, you will also find some more far fetched and less well supported ideas about it being in many far flung places that are not in the immediate vicinity of Africa and the Arabian Peninsula, which aren't really supported so much by what we know in terms of what's documented about Egyptian relationships with Punt and about what we know about Egyptians seafaring capabilities which weren't amazing. They could get up and down the Nile pretty well, but they really tended to stick very closely along the shore of the Red Sea. They were not nearly as good as like getting out into the water away from that safety of land.

[Holly Fry]

They were focusing more on architecture and that is fine.

[Tracy B. Wilson]

Yeah. We should also note that in the modern era there is a place called Puntland which is part of Somalia and we know that that was named after the land of Punt, but it's not clear that that was the same physical location. Thanks so much for joining us on this Saturday. Since this episode is out of the archive, if you heard an email address or a Facebook URL or something similar over the course of the show, that could be obsolete now. Our current email address is historypodcastiheartradio.com you can find us all over social media ist in History and you can subscribe to our show on Apple Podcasts, Google Podcasts, the iHeartRadio app, and wherever else you listen to podcasts. Stuff youf Missed in History Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from I iHeartRadio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.

[Holly Fry]

Ugh.

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[Holly Fry]

Explore the winding halls of historical true crime with Holly Fry and Maria Tremarky, hosts of Criminalia, as they uncover curious cases from the past. The legend of the Highwayman suggests men dominated the field, but tell that to Lady Catherine Ferrers, known as the wicked lady who terrorized England in the mid-1600s. Her legend persists nearly 400 years after her death. Highwaymen are in the hot seat this season. Find more crime and cocktails on Criminalia. Listen to criminalia on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts or wherever you get your podcasts.

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[Tracy B. Wilson]

Roger Caron was 16 when first convicted.

[Daniel]

Has spent 24 of those years in jail.

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But when Roger Caron picked up a pen and paper, he went from an ex con to a literary darling From Campside Media and iHeart Podcasts. Listen to GoBoy on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

We love learning about this extraordinary universe.

[Daniel]

And we love sharing what we've learned.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

And on our podcast, Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe, that's what we're gonna do.

[Daniel]

I'm Daniel, I'm a particle physicist and I think our universe is absolutely extraordinary.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

I'm Kelly Wienersmith. I study parasites and there's just endless things about this universe that I find fascinating.

[Daniel]

Basically, we're both nerds.

[Kelly Wienersmith]

Each Tuesday and Thursday we take an hour long dive into some science topic.

[Daniel]

Learn all about our amazing and beautiful universe on Daniel and Kelly's Extraordinary Universe. Every Tuesday and Thursday on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.